Jesuitical 20: Georgetown Prof on Slavery and Rape

Sunday, February 12, AD 2017



Part 20 of my ongoing survey of the follies of many modern day Jesuits. A Georgetown Professor assures us that slavery and rape isn’t so bad as long as the slavers and rapists follow the religion of peace.  Rod Dreher gives us the details:


An academic reader writes:

This news item stands out if only because — at last! — reality beats Houellebecq. Who’d a thunk? Or maybe Houellebecq was prophetical in his novel, “Soumission”.

What’s he talking about? News that Jonathan Brown, a tenured Georgetown professor and holder of the Al-Waleed bin Talal Chair in Islamic Civilization at Georgetown University, has delivered a lecture defending slavery and rape non-consensual sex. Umar Lee, a Muslim who heard the lecture and was offended by it, posted about it here. He wrote:

While the lecture was supposed to be about slavery in Islam Brown spent the majority of the lecture talking about slavery in the United States, the United Kingdom and China. When discussing slavery in these societies Brown painted slavery as brutal and violent (which it certainly was). When the conversation would briefly flip to historic slavery in the Arab and Turkish would slavery was described by Brown in glowing terms. Indeed, according to Brown, slaves in the Muslim World lived a pretty good life.

I thought the Muslim community was done with this dishonest North Korean style of propaganda. Obviously not. Brown went on to discuss the injustices of prison labor in America and a myriad of other social-ills. Absent from his talk (until challenged) was any recognition of the rampant abuse of workers in the Gulf, the thousands of workers in the Gulf dying on construction sites, the South Asian child camel-jockeys imported into the United Arab Emirates to race camels under harsh conditions, or the horrific conditions of prisoners in the Muslim World (the latest news being 13,000 prisoners executed in Syria).

Brown constructs a world where the wrongs of the West excuse any wrongs (if he believes there are any) in the Muslim World.

“Slavery wasn’t racialized” in Muslim societies, Brown stated. That would be believable if it weren’t well-known black people in the Arab World and African-Americans in this country weren’t constantly referred to as abeed (slaves) simply because the color of the skin.

Brown described slavery in the Muslim World as kinder and gentler. The Arab poet who wrote “before you buy the slave buy the stick… for he is nejas (impure)” is perhaps a better description of Arab slavery than what Brown offered.
“Slaves were protected by shariah (Islamic Law)” Brown stated with no recognition of the idealized legal version of slavery and slavery as it was practiced. In this version of slavery there is an omission of kidnappings, harems, armies of eunuchs, and other atrocities.

Read the whole thing. Umar Lee is furious.

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9 Responses to Jesuitical 20: Georgetown Prof on Slavery and Rape

  • A few days ago I had a similar but brief discussion with a spoiled brat narcissistic millennial feminist who, having once styled herself as “healthy fit goddess” (but yet insisting that she is a refugee from central Europe while jet setting around the world) asked me if I was asserting that there is no maltreatment of women in business within the US. I responded, “Not within my industry. What about yours?” We work in the same industry though we are unacquainted with each other, and in that industry abusing women can and will get you fired (unless you are former NRC Chairperson like Gregory Jackzo appointed by Obama in 2010 – then the rules are different). She, being a part of public relations, dared not respond for otherwise she would defame the very business and industry of which she is a member and unwilling to do that was she. I went on with the following link, knowing that she had proudly bragged about having once visited Iran and how wonderful the Iranian Republic is:

    Of course she didn’t respond. Like most narcissists in the West, she knows neither the Koran (that book of iniquity and depravity) nor the real history of Islam (raping, pillaging and blood-shedding its way through 1400 years of human history). For her, history started at her birth if not her breakfast.

    Liberal. Progressive. Feminist. Democrat. Narcissist.

    The five most vile words in the English language.

  • Truth: Ask any savant furiously running through the streets screaming “Refugees welcome!”

    Islam means never having to say, “I’m sorry.”

  • This being taught here in the US makes me so angry that I could probably get violent over it. We have Islamic studies at more than one university here in my state. I have brought their promotion of slavery of women up several times & no one wants to touch it.

  • In 2003, Sheik Saleh Al-Fawzan, a member of the Senior Council of Clerics,
    Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body, had this to say about Islam and slavery:
    “Slavery is a part of Islam… slavery is a part of jihad, and jihad will remain
    as long as there is Islam… (those who argue that slavery has been abolished are)
    ignorant, not scholars, they are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.”

  • Aside from the ‘arabs’ being the major players in the transatlantic slave trade, I found some other least known facts horrifying. The rowers in the Ottoman ships at the Battle of Lepanto were Christian galley slaves. They were captured in previous conquests. Or the elite Ottoman infantry, the Janissaries, who were slaves and Christian boys taken from their families to be trained strictly into loyal soldiers & bodyguards. Imagine your son being taken from you, a dhimmi, to be raised to fight against your own people. We have a modern day example-Kayla Mueller- who was made the sex slave of Jihad John. She is one of thousands of Christian & Yazidi captured for sex slavery- which is perfectly acceptable in Islam.
    The harems- full of captive sex slaves, and wives, guarded by eunuch slaves, are the separate part of a muslim household devoted to one man. This is all acceptable.
    To go back to my first least known facts- google transatlantic slave trade and you will have to search for a reference to where all the slaves came from- who was selling them. Very one-sided.

  • He who pays the piper calls the tune.

  • Saudi Arabia is the home and treasury of Wahhabism, a most aggressive, violence species of Islamic terrorism.

    Islam is exactly like all the other religions as long as you refuse to learn about it and don’t get murdered by it.

    Here’s the Truth, all you need to know about Islam. It’s a religion of peace and love only for Muslim males, not for kaffirs (lower than Jews in Nazi Germany), Muslim women, and kaffir women (lowest). Everything beautiful in the Koran is reserved for the “House of Islam/Peace” Muslims; everyone outside Islam is in the “House of War/desultory, eternal war.” There may exist good Muslims. Are they shamming friendship and toleration until . . . ? Remember, “They also serve who only stand and wait.” – John Milton

  • Saudi Arabia is the home and treasury of Wahhabism, a most aggressive, violence species of Islamic terrorism.

    Saudi foreign policy is, for the most part, a drab Machivellian affair. Since 1924, they’ve never participated in any war bar a supporting role in the 1st Gulf War and supporting roles in counter-insurgency programs in neighboring countries (i.e. Oman and Yemen). They passed subsidies to insurgencies (contra the Soviets in Afghanistan) and have paid some protection money to the PLO. They have cultural programs (e.g. financing mosques abroad) which are an irritant. They’re basically a status quo power and not much of a threat to anyone.

  • Malachi Martin opened my eyes about the Jesuits.Everyone should read him.

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Truth From an Archbishop

Sunday, January 15, AD 2017



I guess these days archbishops have to be retired before we can expect to here truth from them:


Monsignor Carlo Liberati, Archbishop Emeritus of Pompeii, said that Islam will soon become Europe’s main religion thanks to the huge number of Muslim migrants alongside the increasing secularism of native Europeans.

Speaking to Italian Catholic journal La Fede Quotidiana, the archbishop said: “In 10 years we will all be Muslims because of our stupidity. Italy and Europe live in a pagan and atheist way, they make laws that go against God and they have traditions that are proper of paganism.

“All of this moral and religious decadence favours Islam.”

“We have a weak Christian faith,” he added. “The Church nowadays does not work well and seminaries are empty.

“Parishes are the only thing still standing. We need a true Christian life. All this paves the way to Islam. In addition to this, they have children and we do not. We are in full decline.”


The archbishop added that the problem is not just Muslim immigration. The number of Eastern Europeans arriving over the past few years has also hit the quality of life for native Italians, he said.

“We help without delay those coming from outside and we forget many poor and old Italians who are eating from the trash,” the archbishop said. “We need policies that take care of Italians first: our young people and the unemployed.

“I am a protester. If I were not a priest, I’d be out there demonstrating in the squares. What is the point of so many migrants that instead of thanking for the food we give them, they just throw it, spend hours with their cell phones and even organise riots?”

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8 Responses to Truth From an Archbishop

  • So be it.

    The politically correct infestation that is fueled by liberial relativism and anti-Christian propaganda will level Europe.
    The help to pommel the once rich Christendom will be from the new Islamic conquests.

    We are seeing a rise in conversions from Islam to Christianity, as talking heads tell it on All Kresta’s afternoon program, but is it enough to slow down the tsunami hitting Europe? Probably not.

    What of America?
    Islamophobia and bigotry is what they call it when concerned American’s speak of better vetting operations and a slow down of importing Refugees.
    Common sense is a better definition.

    As far as the religious aspects, America too will have much to reclaim if Johnny and Sally do not teach basic Christianity and live it daily to their little ones…Of course they will be to politically correct to guide their children into belief systems.
    Our new Islamic State recruitment programs provided by mommy and daddy.

    So be it.

  • Vatican II with it’s emphasis on embracing the world and it’s values has succeeded marvelously. So marvelously in fact that nearly all semblance of Catholic thinking has disappeared. Gone is the Thomistic natural law basis for philosophical understanding, i.e., common sense. Gone is the understanding that the Catholic religious is unique and supreme. Gone is the truth about Islam spoken by many Popes in the past. Gone is the Catholic mission to convert the world.

    Instead what we have on the part of many leader in the Church a fatuous and wishy-washy political correctness and accommodation. But let us get to the point. What we have is the devil and his minions now controlling much of the Catholic Church. And the worst part few people of even concerned about like the proverbial mouse dying as the water temperature rises.

    Let us pray to Our Lady of Fatima for divine intervention where actions speak louder than words.

  • Italy has a Total Fertility Rate of 1.4 (just ahead of Germany (1.38) and Spain (1.32) A quarter of Italian women aged 45-55 are childless.
    Population decline is inevitable, as there are not enough women of child-bearing age to reverse it. The median age is 44.8 years.
    Italian is set to join Latin and Etruscan as dead languages, with Dante and Petrarch being read only by bored school-children.

  • Last week was what the USCCB termed Migration Week. Elements in the Catholic Church are not only complicit, but actively promoting this dilution of Christianity here. Catholic Charities has accepted millions from the traitorous most recent administration precisely to facilitate relocation of so-called immigrants, who are constantly proving to be terrorists. As was stated in this clip, the devil is in charge.

  • I’ve always held the belief that the radical islamists created chaos, torture and wars … not to take over their own lands, but for the very intent to push out their muslim faithful … creating a false parousia that forces islam into their enemy’s culture. Will we let it continue to take hold … or use it against them and watch good muslims convert to the one true faith? Only God knows.

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  • The virtue of charity is a personal decision between the giver and the receiver. Virtues may not be tyrannically imposed, not by bishops, nor clergy, nor politicians. Like tithing, the virtue of charity is to be determined by the parishioner or the citizen.
    Religion is not the realm of the state. Religion is a personal and intimate relationship with “their Creator”, God, The Supreme Sovereign Being. Charity begins at home.
    Involuntary charity imposed, is extortion. Where is RICO when you need them.

  • Mary De Voe wrote, “Like tithing, the virtue of charity is to be determined by the parishioner or the citizen.”

    Except that tithing was not “determined by the parishioner” for about a thousand years, beginning with an ordinance made by Charlemagne as King of the Franks, in a general assembly of his Estates, spiritual and temporal, in 778-779. The ordinance was in the following terms : “Concerning tithes, it is ordained that every man give his tithe, and that they be dispensed according to the bishop’s commandment.”

    A Capitular for Saxony in 789 appointed tithes to be paid out of all public property, and that all men, “whether noble, or gentle, or of lower degree,” should “give according to God’s commandment, to the churches and priests, of their substance and labour : as God has given to each Christian, so ought he
    to repay a part to God.”’

    A Capitular of 800 made the payment of tithes universal within the fiscal domain of the whole Frankish kingdom. We are told the reading of this Capitular was interrupted by loud and repeated cries from Pope Leo III and the assembled clergy of “Life and victory to our ever-august Emperor!”

    From this time onwards, therefore, payment of tithes was no longer a religious duty alone; it was a legal obligation, enforceable by the laws of the civil head of Christendom.

18 Responses to Charles Martel Lives

  • About damn time, I say.

    YouTube has several vids of people chanting anti-Islam slogans at soccer games and elsewhere in Poland. I won’t post links to them. The language does not fit this blog.
    Islam understands one thing….force. Hit them in the mouth and they will run.

  • Oh, and if the Roman Pontiff doesn’t like it he can go find another church to screw up.

  • . The problem with the full force sucker punch though and this variant which signals by body approach a bit before being thrown….is the concrete sidewalk meeting the head like that. We have two guys in this NY harbor area from different years…serving sentences in prison for manslaughter for this kind of surprise or almost surprise punch which killed their opponents…one guy died several days after the punch.
    These black/ white…migrant/native fights in Europe are far more extant ( see youtube…migrants attack….etc. ) than we realize from our sanitized US news and have many there on edge and ready for the next one. This Catholic was stewing about the whole matrix or syndrome long before throwing this left hook….that punch had emotional history behind it but realistically, in the US, he could have ended up in jail or paying a law suit or both because the other had not attacked him physically.

  • Someone forgot to turn the other cheek. Understandable under the circumstances,

  • Saw the video but without sound,thanks to your explanation now I understand why he decked the guy

  • I saw the video, too, and without an explanation, would not have understood it. I wonder if the fellow who threw the punch knew the other fellow. There seemed to be little time to say “Hey, buddy, leave us alone. We don’t want trouble,” etc.

  • And not to be dismissed is the that the whole thing was a set-up. The knock-out came just too fast after the guy showed up. Catholic agitprop.

  • One man threw a punch. The rest of Europe is out to lunch.
    Obama would prosecute it as a hate crime, scream “Islamo-phobia,” and issue an executive order banning more guns
    The elites and leftists are at war with “the West.”

  • Notice how much bigger the aggressor is, yet our hero scores a KO with 1 punch.
    How?…Because God is behind that punch all the way. Don’t kid yourself otherwise.
    A small answer to our many prayers.

  • The blood of the Hammer runs in his veins.

    I had a commenter lamenting on the rise of the beta male in the Church overall. I think the pendulum will begin to swing in the other direction.

    I think the punch thrown was based off all the righteous anger that is beginning to build within many there in Europe. Notice he was observing the threat early on in the video. For all he knew that guy was going to pull a knife or some other weapon.

    After studying Iraqis up close during my deployment, the tribal use of force seemed to be the only way to get their attention. Raw, naked force is the only thing they respect.


    Dr. Bill Warner on what he calls The Doctrine of Cowardice. He targets the cowardice of the American Church and their failure to the persecuted Church around the world.

  • Someone forgot to turn the other cheek.

    That wasn’t insult– that was preparation for an attack.

    Was he supposed to wait until the woman on her bare knees in the front was bloody on the ground before he responded? She would be a prime target– tall, focused, and obviously dedicated, to be kneeling like that without even fidgeting.
    The guy who walked up trying out drown out the prayer walked by at least once before that we have on video; the sound would keep anyone from being able to hear him approaching for another attack until after there was at least one body on the ground, and it is not improbable that he had someone there with him.
    The little guy apparently has some exposure to modern threat/defense training.

  • (Incidentally, last research I heard into ancient culture, “turn the other cheek” is one of several insulting wrongs where His suggestion did the same sort of harm to the one wronged– but also turned it around so the other was insulted; my favorite is the one where Roman military was allowed to force you to carry things for the initial distance… so if you carry it twice as far, they could get in trouble; the culture Jesus was dealing with was so tied up in insult and honor that it is really, really hard to wrap your mind around it. Imagine an entire culture of touchy gang-type thugs that don’t have the judgement issues that go with that weakness in our culture.)

  • Didn’t St Nicholas punch that heretic Arius in the face at the Council of Nicea?
    That Musloid got what he fully deserved.

  • Arminius, you learned in Iraq exactly what was learned by the Church in ages past, and thrown away by Nostra Aetate. Punch Islam hard enough in the mouth and it will recede.

    Islam, sub Sarahan Africa, India,China…none of them did what Christian Europe did, which was to seek out and colonize the New World (this happened while Christian Europe punched Islam in the mouth).

  • The other guy was taller, but our slugger was not really small – he looked pretty solid and put every ounce of it into that left hook. WOW!

  • Now that’s dialogue Islam can wrap its head around.

  • Every revolution begins with a first shot.


Tuesday, July 12, AD 2016



Dave Griffey at Daffey Thoughts points at one of the remarkable trends of the past few years:  muslim conversions to Christianity:


The fields are white already to harvest

You might miss this in the national press, but conversions to Christianity across the Muslim world are spiking.  Nothing inspires people to consider the faith more than martyrs, and in that strange twist of fate, as Muslim groups have pressed down on Christians, more and more Muslims are inspired to convert.  And by convert, I mean something good.  I don’t consider conversion a dirty word.  I stopped worrying about trying to convert others when it dawned on me that the ones telling me it is wrong to convert others were trying to convert me.

Thankfully, in parts of the world where the Faith is a matter of life and death, we don’t have squabbling over nuanced definitions.  You have living the Faith.  And in doing so, Christians across the Islamic world are bringing glory to God.  In this story,  we hear about two Muslim clerics embracing faith in Christ, as well as  the freeing of 4500 slaves currently held by the Taliban.

There is still much violence, much hatred.  Human slavery is at unprecedented levels in the world.  But it’s a start.  Lighting a candle in the darkness might not light the entire room, but it’s a start.

Go here to comment.  With modern technology, and incredibly brave missionaries and Arab Christians, the Gospel is being preached as never before in Islamic lands:

Extraordinary stories about massive number of Muslims converting to Christ are appearing around the world. Recently at World Magazine, writer Warren Cole Smith interviewed 25-year missionary David Garrison who has documented his findings about the Muslim phenomenon. “There is a revival in the Muslim world,” Garrison says. He believes between 2 and 7 million former Muslims have converted to Christianity in the past two decades. His book, A Wind in the House of Islam, contains impressive research to back up his claim.

Why is this happening? Nabeel Qureshi, a popular speaker and author, explains in his book and online testimony that the gospel is being proclaimed with greater effectiveness. Qureshi affirms that the Holy Spirit works primarily by and through Scripture. And in his own experience, he says that subjective visions about Christ were also steps in his conversion from Islam to faith in Christ.

Open Doors USA recently reported a remarkable conversion story of a former Muslim man in Iran named Taher. He would beat his family and even threatened to kill them because of their faith in Jesus. After Taher’s family fled abroad, time passed and in his growing despair he cried out: “I will believe in the God who reveals Himself to me.” According to his story (here), the living God answered his prayers through a dream. It isn’t clear how much of the Bible Taher was exposed to, but he heard the gospel through the witness of his family and saw the reality of their faith in the face of persecution.


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7 Responses to Conversion

  • Wonderful.

    The role of Scripture and dreams in these conversions puts me in mind of the late Begum Bilquis Sheikh’s conversion story as related in her “I Dared to Call Him Father” (1978).

  • Here is a recent conversion story, which perhaps was a visitation without a dream:

  • All the ends of the earth
    will remember and turn to the Lord,
    and all the families of the nations
    will bow down before him,
    for dominion belongs to the Lord
    and he rules over the nations.

    All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
    all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
    those who cannot keep themselves alive.
    Posterity will serve him;
    future generations will be told about the Lord.
    They will proclaim his righteousness,
    declaring to a people yet unborn:
    He has done it!
    -Psalm 22:27-31 NIV

  • One of the constants of Christian martyr stories is the “and __ of their guards were struck, and executed with them” sort.

    It would be easy to wave it off as a traditional story, but it even pops up in the Japanese martyrs stories– they are martyred and people are converted by their example.

  • Yet our Pope has assured us that proselytism is “solemn nonsense”, and
    told an audience that it had no place in Catholic schools…

  • Amazing statistics. Twenty years ago in Penang, Malaysia we attended Mass at a large RC church. Besides those of us with European ancestry, there were Straits Chinese and Indians with Portuguese names probably of Goan ancestry. There were no Malays in attendance. To convert from Islam would make them an apostate.

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Tuesday, June 21, AD 2016



Please read this letter and then in the comboxes give me a guesstimate  of the percentage of people at the Vatican who actually believe that Catholicism is the True Faith:


Christians and Muslims: 

Beneficiaries and Instruments of Divine Mercy

Dear Muslim brothers and sisters,

1. The month of Ramadan and ‘Id al-Fitr is an important religious event for Muslims around the world, focused on fasting, prayer and good deeds, and is esteemed by Christians, your friends and neighbours. On behalf of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue and Christians all over the world, we extend best wishes for a spiritually rewarding fast, supported by good deeds, and for a joyful feast.

As is our cherished custom, we wish to share with you on this occasion some reflections in the hope of strengthening the spiritual bonds we share.

2. A theme that is close to the hearts of Muslims and Christians alike is mercy.

We know that Christianity and Islam both believe in a merciful God, who shows his mercy and compassion towards all his creatures, in particular the human family. He created us out of an immense love. He is merciful in caring for each of us, bestowing upon us the gifts we need for our daily life, such as food, shelter and security. God’s mercy is manifested in a particular way, however, through the pardon of our faults; hence he is the one who pardons (al-Ghâfir), but the one who pardons much and always (al-Ghafour).

3. To underscore the importance of mercy, His Holiness Pope Francis declared a Jubilee Year of Mercy to be celebrated from 8 December 2015 to 20 November 2016. In this regard he said: “Here… is the reason for the Jubilee: because this is the time for mercy. It is the favorable time to heal wounds, a time not to be weary of meeting all those who are waiting to see and to touch with their hands the signs of the closeness of God, a time to offer everyone, everyone, the way of forgiveness and reconciliation” (“Homily”, 11 April 2015).

Your pilgrimage (hajj) to the Holy places, mainly Mecca and Medina, is surely a special time for you to experience God’s mercy. In fact, among the well-known aspirations addressed to Muslim pilgrims is: “I wish you a blessed pilgrimage, praiseworthy efforts and the pardon of your sins”. Making a pilgrimage to obtain God’s pardon for sins, both for the living and dead, is truly a salient custom practice among believers.

4. We, Christians and Muslims, are called to do our best to imitate God. He, the Merciful, asks us to be merciful and compassionate towards others, especially those who are in any kind of need. So too he calls us to be forgiving of one another.

When we gaze upon humanity today, we are saddened to see so many victims of conflicts and violence – here we think in particular of the elderly, and children and women, especially those who fall prey to human trafficking and the many people who suffer from poverty, illness, natural disasters and unemployment.

5. We cannot close our eyes to these realities, or turn away from these sufferings. It is true that situation are often very complex and that their solution exceeds our capacities. It is vital, therefore, that all work together in assisting those in need. It is a source of great hope when we experience or hear of Muslims and Christians joining hands to help the needy. When we do join hands, we heed an important command in our respective religions and show forth God’s mercy, thus offering a more credible witness, individually and communally, to our beliefs.

May the Merciful and Almighty God help us to walk always along the path of goodness and compassion!

6. We join our prayerful good wishes to those of Pope Francis for abundant blessings during Ramadan and for a lasting joy of ‘Id al-Fitr.

Happy Feast to you all!

From the Vatican, 10 June 2016

Jean-Louis Cardinal Tauran


Bishop Miguel Ángel Ayuso Guixot, M.C.C.I.


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23 Responses to Gag

  • Less than 5% at the Vatican really believe that only Jesus is the way, the truth and the light.

  • Sickening!!! Absolutely sickening!!!! Heretical!!!! Beyond my ability to express in words my horror. The people who sent this letter to Muslims do not know Christ.

  • Gone is the apostolic fervor of St. Francis. In are the political machinations of Pope Francis. Any Muslim reading Cardinal Tauran’s letter would say the Catholic Church has surrendered to Islam and given up it’s mission to preach Christ to the whole world.

    I will guess that less that 50% believe Catholicism is the true faith. However, I also believe that over 90% believe it is no longer necessary to convert the entire world to our faith.

  • I can’t put a number on it but I would bet that the overwhelming majority of Catholics – lay and clergy – have not thought through the logic that if you say that other religions are effective ways to God you have told Christ that the cross was not necessary. Thanks, Jesus, but did you know that whole miserable cross buisness was not necessary??? Look at all these other ways!!

  • “‘If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me”

    Grammy, you are correct, and so we also get out of that pesky Luke 9:23 requirement. What a relief! We can follow the Jesus who we want.

  • Actually, the letter is pretty innocuous, except for this:

    Your pilgrimage (hajj) to the Holy places, mainly Mecca and Medina, is surely a special time for you to experience God’s mercy. In fact, among the well-known aspirations addressed to Muslim pilgrims is: “I wish you a blessed pilgrimage, praiseworthy efforts and the pardon of your sins”. Making a pilgrimage to obtain God’s pardon for sins, both for the living and dead, is truly a salient custom practice among believers.

    This passage basically confirms Muslim beliefs concerning the hajj.

  • It has been said that there are very few act of mercy described in the suras.

  • “Actually, the letter is pretty innocuous, except for this:”

    Innocuous my hind end!!

    Muslims are not our spiritual brothers & sisters as they are still in the kingdom of Satan and are children of the devil as is anyone who has not been made a new creation through the cleansing power of forgiveness of sins and the receipt of the Holy Spirit.

    True Christians do not esteem the useless & spiritually fruitless fasting and other physical exercises carried out in fleshly powers during the month of Ramadan. We recognize these machinations for what they are–useless exercises in the flesh in the service of a false god that accomplishes nothing in the spiritual realm except binding the adherent further into spiritual bondage.

    Christians, who have been brought into the kingdom of light through repentance and faith in the death, burial, & resurrection of Jesus Christ, do not share spiritual bonds with those who are still members of the kingdom of darkness.

    Equating our God of the Bible with the false god of the Koran is pure blasphemy.

    Allah is NOT a merciful god. He has made no way for his followers to gain entrance to Heaven–hence them committing suicide, etc., in an attempt to achieve paradise in the next life. The death & slaughter being carried out in the name of Allah is not mercy. Allah calls for the death and/or subjugation of anyone who is not of the Muslim Faith and the slavery of all women.

    Do you know of anywhere in the world where Christians & Muslims work side by side in peace to cure societal’s ills? I don’t.

    Christians wish that Muslims be set free from their useless and Hell bound false beliefs & practices. Not that Muslims continue in them further.

  • What The Christian Teacher said!
    In fact, Islam is the sum-total and combination of nearly every heresy ever hatched by Satan.
    The garbage that Muslims “believe ” about Jesus is a sin against the Holy Spirit: the one sin Jesus told us can never be forgiven.

  • It has to be 1% – modern rhetoric dictates so. Probably a greater number that would include spineless, cowardly, and tortured silent hierarchy.
    What a wasteland!
    Francis of Assisi spoke of love for the Lord, what is the stuff of the First Commandment of God, given in love for His people to Moses, defining love and the way to live in Ten steps.
    Contrast to the verbiage, publications, and personnel activites of today’s namesake that teach a one-way love from, not for, God.

  • I don’t think that any of the letter is strictly false, but none of it is innocuous either. It’s misleading. Take TomD’s passage:

    Your pilgrimage (hajj) to the Holy places, mainly Mecca and Medina, is surely a special time for you to experience God’s mercy. (It could lead you to realize the hollowness of your religion, and to recognize God’s true mercy through the Cross.)

    In fact, among the well-known aspirations addressed to Muslim pilgrims is: “I wish you a blessed pilgrimage, praiseworthy efforts and the pardon of your sins”. (That’s a fact. That’s what they say. It doesn’t prove that the pilgrimage does lead to the pardon of your sins.)

    Making a pilgrimage to obtain God’s pardon for sins, both for the living and dead, is truly a salient custom practice among believers. (Salient means important. Rubbing peanut butter on your head for the pardon of sins could be a salient practice. It doesn’t make it valid. Or better yet, taking real medicine is a salient part of Western healing, and taking fake medicine is a salient part of Asian healing, but only real medicine works.)

    So, there, I’ve found a way to read the statement so that I could pass a lie detector test. Is that a good criterion for a document? This is the problem with ecumenism.

  • Popes from the beginning have fought the Muslims. In the year 916 or there about, Pope John X led the battle against the Muslims and the Pope kisses their feet.

  • What ever the % is, they should be making an uproar right now! Jesus chase the devil out! The lightening strike, the smoke, the fog…. all sensible signs call us to battle.

  • The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Catechism of the Catholic Church 841

  • Is The Christian Teacher Catholic? Here what Pope SAINT John Paul the great said: “I close my greeting to you with the words of one of my predecessors, Pope Gregory VII who in 1076 wrote to Al-Nasir, the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya, present day Algeria: ‘Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. You and we owe this charity to ourselves especially because we believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way, and daily praise and venerate him, the creator of the world and ruler of this world.’
    “These words, written almost a thousand years ago, express my feelings to you today as you celebrate ‘Id al-Fitr, the Feast of the Breaking of the Fast. May the Most High God fill us with all His merciful love and peace.” Pope Saint John Paul II, April 3, 1991

  • Man is a spiritual being. We believers know that we do not live in a closed world. We believe in God. We are worshipers of God. We are seekers of God.
    “The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress, the richness of your spiritual tradition. . . .
    “I believe that we, Christians and Muslims, must recognize with joy the religious values that we have in common, and give thanks to God for them. Both of us believe in one God, the only God, who is all justice and all mercy; we believe in the importance of prayer, of fasting, of almsgiving, of repentance and of pardon; we believe that God will be a merciful judge to us all at the end of time, and we hope that after the resurrection He will be satisfied with us and we know that we will be satisfied with him.
    “Loyalty demands also that we should recognize and respect our differences. Obviously the most fundamental is the view that we hold onto the person and work of Jesus of Nazareth. You know that, for Christians, Jesus causes them to enter into an intimate knowledge of the mystery of God and into the filial communion by His gifts, so that they recognize Him and proclaim Him Lord and Savior.
    “Those are the important differences which we can accept with humility and respect, in mutual tolerance; this is a mystery about which, I am certain, God will one day enlighten us.
    “Christians and Muslims, in general we have badly understood each other, and sometimes, in the past, we have opposed and often exhausted each other in polemics and in wars.
    “I believe that today, God invites us to change our old practices. We must respect each other, and we must stimulate each other in good works.” Pope St John Paul the Great, 1985

  • “Pope Gregory VII”

    Who laid the intellectual framework for the Great Crusade of his successor, and protégé, Pope Urban II.

    “Gregory, bishop, servant of the servants of God, to all who are willing to defend the Christian faith, greeting and apostolic benediction.

    We hereby inform you that the bearer of this letter, on his recent return from across the sea [from Palestine], came to Rome to visit us. He repeated what we had heard from many others, that a pagan race had overcome the Christians and with horrible cruelty had devastated everything almost to the walls of Constantinople, and were now governing the conquered lands with tyrannical violence, and that they had slain many thousands of Christians as if they were but sheep. If we love God and wish to be recognized as Christians, we should be filled with grief at the misfortune of this great empire [the Greek] and the murder of so many Christians. But simply to grieve is not our whole duty. The example of our Redeemer and the bond of fraternal love demand that we should lay down our lives to liberate them. “Because he has laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren,” [1 John 3:16]. Know, therefore, that we are trusting in the mercy of God and in the power of his might and that we are striving in all possible ways and making preparations to render aid to the Christian empire [the Greek] as quickly as possible. Therefore we beseech you by the faith in which you are united through Christ in the adoption of the sons of God, and by the authority of St. Peter, prince of apostles, we admonish you that you be moved to proper compassion by the wounds and blood of your brethren and the danger of the aforesaid empire and that, for the sake of Christ, you undertake the difficult task of bearing aid to your brethren [the Greeks]. Send messengers to us at once inform us of what God may inspire you to do in this matter.”

    Pope Gregory VII (1074)

  • “Harold on Thursday, June 23, A.D. 2016 at 2:20pm
    “Is The Christian Teacher Catholic?”

    Since when is being Catholic equated with declaring Islam equal with Christianity?

    I wasn’t aware that agreement with greetings with falsehoods in them written by Popes to Muslim leaders was a requirement of Catholicism.

    Do you believe it is?

  • “Harold Ullenberg on Thursday, June 23, A.D. 2016 at 2:11pm
    The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. Catechism of the Catholic Church 841.”

    Harold, are meaning to indicate that you are among the number who do not believe that Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection is necessary for salvation? That we could follow the teachings & god of Islam and be right with God?

  • This is not what I converted to Catholicism for.

  • What did Jesus say about the false prophets to come? All of it applies to Mohammy the pedophile/liar/murderer/thief/schizophrenic………

    All who understand the faith are ashamed of this wimpy pope….

  • Pinky wrote:

    “I don’t think that any of the letter is strictly false, but none of it is innocuous either.”

    Aye. That is what makes it so dangerous…

Edward Feser on Islamophobia

Sunday, June 5, AD 2016



Philosopher Edward Feser at his blog has a very interesting post on the concept of  “Islamophilia” and its twin,”Islamophobia”, a term used commonly to shut up people who note the obvious:  that adherents to Islam commit most acts of terrorism in the modern world:

By the same token, it would be ridiculous to dismiss McCarthy’s claim merely on the grounds that it must reflect nothing more than “Islamophobic” “bigotry.”  Indeed, McCarthy could fling an accusation of “Islamophilic bigotry” back at anyone who would make such a claim.  As I pointed out in the post on liberalism and Islam, there are several factors that predispose political liberals too quickly to dismiss the very suggestion that there might be a connection between Islamic doctrine on the one hand and violence and illiberal politics on the other.  For example, the very workability of liberalism as a political project presupposes that what John Rawls called “comprehensive doctrines,” or at least comprehensive doctrines with a large number of adherents, are compatible with basic liberal premises (and thus “reasonable,” as Rawlsian liberals conceive of “reasonableness”). If it turned out there is a “comprehensive doctrine” with a large number of adherents which is simply not compatible with basic liberal premises, that would be a very serious problem for the entire liberal project.  Hence liberals are bound to be reluctant to conclude that there is any such “comprehensive doctrine,” or to look for evidence that might support such a conclusion. 

Then there is the fact that egalitarianism is one of the dogmas of modern liberalism, just as the divinity of Christ is a dogma of Christianity or the divine origin of the Quran is a dogma of Islam.  Many liberals find it almost impossible to understand how even a mildly negative characterization of some religion, culture, or group could be anything but an expression of unreasoning hatred.  Hence epithets like “bigot” play, within liberalism, the same role that words like “heretic” often do within religion.  They are a means of silencing dissenters and sending a warning to anyone even considering dissent from egalitarianism.  The irony is that plugging one’s ears and screaming “Bigot!” at someone who is trying to present a reasoned argument is, of course, itself a kind of bigotry — perhaps the worst kind, insofar as someone self-righteously in love with the idea that he is the paradigmatic anti-bigot is the least likely of all bigots to see his prejudices for what they are.

Again, see the earlier post on liberalism and Islam for discussion of other aspects of modern liberalism which can predispose many liberals against looking at Islam objectively.  The point for the moment is this.  On the one hand, McCarthy can note that any critic inclined to dismiss his position as mere bigotry should seriously consider that there are reasons why the critic may be himself less objective on the subject at hand than he likes to think he is.  And on the other hand, McCarthy can point to what one finds in Islamic scripture and law, in the history of terrorism during the last few decades, and indeed in the entire history of Islam as evidence in favor of his position.

Of course, that does not by itself demonstrate that McCarthy is right.  But any critic of McCarthy plausibly faces a “falsificationist challenge” of a sort that parallels the falsificationist challenge Antony Flew once raised against theists (a challenge I discussed in the earlier post on the logic of falsification).  Paraphrasing Flew, the challenge might be stated as follows:

What would have to occur or to have occurred to constitute for you a disproof of your claim that there is no special connection between Islam and terrorism, or between Islam and illiberal politics?

In other words, if evidence of the sort McCarthy cites does not establish his claim, what evidence will the critic admit would establish it?  Unless the critic can offer a serious response to this question, he cannot plausibly claim that it is he rather than McCarthy who is free of prejudice.

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5 Responses to Edward Feser on Islamophobia

  • The Ottoman Turks were German allies in WWI. Hitler had his Mufti, Arafat’s cousin, in WWII. Terrorism since WWII has been almost exclusively Islamic since WWII.

    Islam hates Jews, hates Christanity, hates the West, and we in the West spend our time, our treasure and our lives to help them…and for what?

    Only Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland have their heads screwed on straight in dealing with Islam. Islam is no religion. It is an ideology that demands complete submission to interpretations from a seventh century Arabic book that contradicts itself.

    Islamophobia my keester.

  • These post-modern beauties (not confined to philosophers) have no familiarity with reality. They make up stuff about stuff. Start with conclusions and present them as Truth. And, if you are reality-based and disagree, you are worse than Hitler. They will never realize that everything they know and everything they think is 100% bu!!$hi+.

  • Egalitarian sounds better than anti-Christian bigot, which strikes closer to the mark.

  • Isn’t it a fact that Islam and liberalism are similar in that both must be totalitarian to accomplish their objectives? And do not both use force and mendacity as tactics? And most of all are not both of them essentially irrational in their understanding of human nature?


Pope Benedict Was Right

Tuesday, November 17, AD 2015



A piece by Thomas D. Williams at Breitbart looks back at some of the comments of Pope Benedict regarding religions and the roles they play in the World:



In that talk, Benedict cited the 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus regarding the relationship between religion and violence. “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached,” the quote read.

Pope Benedict XVI, a scholar who wrote extensively about religious freedom as well as the proper relationship between church and state, always insisted on speaking about religions (plural) rather than religion (singular). He based his reflections not only on a solid philosophical footing, but also on impartial observation of what religions actually propose and the sort of societies they create.

In his 2009 encyclical letter Caritas in Veritate, Benedict made the case that not all religions contribute equally to the development of individuals and societies. Some, in fact, may obstruct it. “Religious freedom does not mean religious indifferentism,” he wrote, “nor does it imply that all religions are equal.”

Benedict also proposed that in order to safeguard and promote the common good, political authority must in some way discern among different religions. “Discernment is needed regarding the contribution of cultures and religions,” Benedict stated, “especially on the part of those who wield political power.”

The Pope noted that certain religions “teach brotherhood and peace and are therefore of enormous importance to integral human development,” yet other traditions “do not fully embrace the principle of love and truth and therefore end up retarding or even obstructing authentic human development.”

Even before becoming pope, Joseph Ratzinger wrote on the differences between religions, noting that “anyone who sees in the religions of the world only reprehensible superstition is wrong” but also “anyone who wants only to give a positive evaluation of all religions… is equally wrong.”

In his own critical considerations of religions, Ratzinger wrote with brutal honesty, observing that there are “deviant, esoteric forms of religion on offer” as well as “pathological” forms of religion. He wrote of religions that are “obviously sick” and religions that are “destructive for man.” He asserted, moreover, that with the detachment of religion from reason, “pathological forms of religion are constantly increasing.”

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11 Responses to Pope Benedict Was Right

Jihadis Welcome

Saturday, October 17, AD 2015


It often seems to me that most Catholic clerics could care less about the ordinary Catholics they are supposed to be shepherds of.  Case in point:  mass immigration of Muslims.  I wish I could say that Robert Spencer is wrong, but his observation of the feckless policy of the Catholic Church in this country regarding Muslim immigration is on target:


The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is calling for the U.S. to take in 100,000 Syrian refugees this year alone.

The Conference shows no sign of knowing or caring that the Islamic State said last February that it would soon flood Europe with as many as 500,000 refugees. Or that an Islamic State operative recently boasted that, among the flood of refugees, 4,000 Islamic State jihadis had entered Europe. Or that the Lebanese education minister said there were 20,000 jihadis among the refugees in camps in his country.

Or that 80% of the migrants who claim to be fleeing the war in Syria aren’t actually from Syria at all, or that German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said the Islamic State is sneaking into the country with the refugees and is active in the refugee camps. Why would these “refugees” think they had to present themselves to Europe, which has welcomed the refugees, with false pretenses unless they had nefarious intentions?

Meanwhile, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is, as Ann Corcoran of Refugee Resettlement Watch points out, “NOT advocating to save the persecuted Christians of Syria through this program.” Instead, bishops such as Robert McManus, Kevin Farrell, Jaime Soto, and others are moving to silence those who speak about the Muslim persecution of Christians, and about the Islamic doctrines mandating warfare against and subjugation of Christians.

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33 Responses to Jihadis Welcome

  • And let us lay down our guns to a troubled lame duck. Poor president can’t stand the school shootings ANY longer!

    Smells bad doesn’t it!

    Why the Department of homeland security purchased billions of ammo…(?)


    Barack Hussein Obama…
    a name that will go down in infamy!

  • Philip, they are getting neither my rifle nor my Rosary nor my Bible except from my cold dead hands. I am proudly a clinger to gun, Rosary and Bible. Remember the Mexico of Plutarco Elias Calles. Remember the Maccabean brothers and their Seleucid overlords. My motto is: Long live Christ the King.

  • Paul.
    Viva Cristo Rey!
    If my blood is shed for the greater glory of God Almighty so be it.
    What is sixty years compared to eternity?
    The blood of many a martyr has produced countless conversions for Jesus Christ.
    From St. Steven to present day Christian’s being murdered by Isis, in their trust of God many have and will come to the splendor of Truth.

    Protecting one’s family is righteousness.
    If jihad Jim storms in he will be met with resistance.

  • Regarding our porous borders and the casual attitude both this administration
    and the USCCB have towards border security, I have but one question: why are
    we keeping up this playacting at ‘security’ at airports now? If the federal government
    is going to throw in the towel and let drugs, refugees, ISIS-masquerading-as-refugees,
    and who knows what else slosh over our increasingly fictitious borders, then why
    must someone’s grandmother still take off her shoes, be patted down, and submit to
    having TSA photograph her naked? Why the scrutiny for us, but not for them?
    It’s almost as if we citizens were the ones they were afraid of.

  • The US Government should cut off all funding for any Catholic entity. The Church built schools, hospitals, colleges, churches, orphanages and operated them all without a dime from Uncle Sam.
    The USCCB can deny Catholic history at its own peril. Pelayo, Rey San Fernando, Charles Martel, Queen Isabel the Catholic, Don Juan of Austria and Jan III Sobieski showed how to deal with Islam. The USCCB is weak.

  • Penguins Fan.

    You are right!
    Cut it all off.
    They are weak.

  • Again, I’m glad that years ago I stopped giving $$ to the US bishops.
    Don’t you people understand? These are the least of your brothers. They hate you. They rape young boys. They mutilate female genitals. They behead Christians. They murder bomb innocents. They fly jumbo jets into tall buildings.
    Makes you wonder: on whose side are they?
    They say you can’t go around kicking in doors and rounding up 11,000,000,invaders. But, they would kick down 83,000,0000 Americans’ doors to take away your arms.
    The only response to such uber stupidity: “Screw you.”

  • “Catholic bishops in this country, and to a large extent around the world, are wedded to an imaginary world in which the magic word “dialogue” solves all problems. ”

    Ever notice those who preach “dialogue” the loudest are the ones least likely to actually practice it? When comes to issues like immigration and capital punishment or similar matters, the bishops are about anything BUT dialogue!

  • This policy reflects the notion following Vatican II,
    which was promoted throughout The Catholic world
    that all religions are equal. I believe they called it
    ecumenicalism, or one world religion. The old bigoted
    principle of the one true Church which offended the
    anti-Catholic political left as a supremacist world
    view had to die with Hitler and Mussolini.
    Of course, some Christians will suffer a violent death at the
    hands of the Mohammedans for the grievous sins of
    the old intolerant church during the Crusades. Nevertheless,
    Christians will have to accommodate the Mohammedans
    as the world moves forward to the realization of the
    international left’s dream of a one world religion.

  • In France, one frequently hears the neologism, « beurgeoisie » ; from the Verlan « beur » = arabe, it refers to the growing number of successful, middle-class people of North African descent, people like Mustapha Ourrad, copy editor of Charlie Hebdo, killed in the massacre of 7 January 2015.

    One thinks of Fadela Amara, a Muslim, who when she was Secretary of State for Urban Policies described fundamentalism as something clung to by a minority through ignorance and isolation in ghetto communities that will vanish when they are given better opportunities of intellectual enlightenment and of acquiring elementary knowledge in history and the sciences. “For this generation,” she declared, “the crucial issues are laïcité, gender equality and gender desegregation, based upon living together in harmony throughout the world, and not only in France” She hailed the Jules Ferry laws, making education at every level free, obligatory and lay.

    Again, there was the vigorous defence of the headscarf ban in schools by another Muslim woman, Rachida Dati, as Minister of Justice (garde des Sceaux): “the laïcité of state schools is not restricted, in the case of pupils, to respect for their freedom of conscience: it imposes a duty of restraint on pupils in their behaviour, since they find themselves in a place pertaining to the public sphere. Pupils’ freedom of conscience, which is an internal freedom, in no way gives them ‘the right to express and manifest their religious beliefs’ in educational institutions, for that involves external acts which improperly introduce religion into the public domain of the school.”

    Then, there are grass-roots activists, like Sihem Habchi, of the Muslim women’s movement, « Ni Putes Ni Soumises » [Neither Sluts nor Door-mats]. In a forceful attack on “multiculturalism” she has demanded “No more justifications of our oppression in the name of the right to be different and of respect toward those men who force us to bow our head.” She opposes state support for religious schools, citing the Law of 9 décembre1905: the Republic does not “recognize, salary or subsidise any cult.”

    There is a dialogue taking place and extremist voices are by no means themost prominent.

  • Well there goes the theory that they only care about immigrants to fill the churches that have been emptied by their laxity and bringing of the faith down to level of the world.

  • Fish rot from the head down, but free nations rot from within their very own bowels.
    Freedom and a lot of the faith both appear constipated these days.

  • These idiot bishops who want these Muslim immigrants so badly should be forced to move out of their houses in nice neighborhoods, and plopped into one teeming with Muslims! That might make a large number of them go Charles Martel in a hurry!

  • Sometimes I think the virtue of Prudence gets lost in the shuffle of our good intentions.

  • What do you expect when a Catholic Pope kisses the Koran; and yet people claim he is a Catholic saint and a “great” one at that?
    Now who is fooling who?
    The same Catholic pope went further and prayed that St. John the Baptist should protect the heretical religion that is Islam.
    Now what do you call that?

  • The Sephardic Jews can go to Israel, but where do the Christian Arabs and Africans go who are being brutully persecuted? For the US – the persecuted should enter first. All others stand in the long line.

  • BTW not a single muslim will be served except by the blood of the Lord Jesus, and faith in his saving power.

  • “Christians will have to accommodate the Mohammedans as the world moves forward to the realization of the international left’s dream of a one world religion.”…based on the human being, man, as being infallible and infinite. In other words, Jesus Christ, Whom we have crucified. Our lady of Victory, pray for us. Our Lady of the Rosary, pray for us. Our Lady of Sorrows, pray for us.

  • “The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops is calling for the U.S. to take in 100,000 Syrian refugees this year alone.”
    The let the USCCB take them into their homes,…and the capital murderers. Equal Justice.

  • Cpola, would you please give it a rest? You have a grudge against John Paul II. He has faced judgment for his sins. John Paul II restored the Most Holy Name of Mary to the Church calendar after Paul VI suppressed it in “honor” of Nostra Aetate.
    Cpola, did you live in Poland during WWII?
    I thought not.

  • From Spencer’s concluding sentence:
    “As the bishops enrich themselves off the flood of refugees pouring into the United States, they can congratulate themselves that no one, not even the “flock” they have betrayed, will hold them accountable for what they have done.”

    Plenty of us have about had it with their wishy-washy ways on life issues, the over-emphasis on non-citizens when many of us are in dire straits and cannot receive help from our own Church, and especially so on the acquiescence to the ACA, which has financially ruined many a regular pew sitter. (Not to mention the lack of backbone on fighting the contraceptive mandate! Ugh!)

    Other than not contributing (which I cannot currently do anyhow), how does one, or the flock, “hold them accountable”?

  • I agree with Penguins Fan. Pope St JP II made a mistake in kissing the Koran. That said, I wish Francis were half the Pope that JP II was. I pray that JP II may be declared a Doctor of the Church.

  • cpola: On the page that you suggested was this statement “It has been prophesied, that if the desecration of the Sunday after Easter Sunday, by the demonic devotion brought forward by an impious female, is not repented of, the sword of Justice will not depart from Rome and its environs.” I take it that the impious female is St. Faustina and the demonic devotion is Divine Mercy Sunday. That page is unreal.

  • How is St Faustina impious? Never mind. I don’t want to know. I read too many lunatic ravings from liberal progressives without going so far the other way that I will have come full circle to insanity. PS, I love my Divine Mercy Diary. It ain’t the Bible, but it’s tons better than anything I have ever written. 😉

  • Paul, I don’t know. That was a quote from The author is very anti-St. Pope John Paul II, esp about the possibility of him being named a Doctor of the Church.

  • Saint Pope John Paul II the Great!
    cpola…He faced down the oppression of the communist party in Poland, the ark I believe it is called, a church that was against the law.
    Polish faithful brought in stones from country land and erected this Church despite threat’s from govt. He WAS NOT AFRAID!
    Kissed a Koran. Big fricking deal.
    Look at the Life of this man!
    Shame on you cpola.

  • The Koran says Jesus did not die on the Cross.
    The Koran says Jesus did not resurrect from the dead.
    The Koran says Jesus is NOT the Son of God.
    Now why would a Catholic Pope kiss such a book?
    How can any Catholic regard such a pope as a saint?
    The veneration of the Koran by a Catholic Pope is blasphemy that cries to Heaven for vengeance. And that day is coming.
    We shall all be witnesses.

  • cpola.

    If Saint Pope John Paul II the Great fruits are rotton because he kissed the Koran, then the hundreds of thousands of people he helped into Holy Catholic Church are rotton too, according to your logic.
    Go suck an egg!

  • Cpola’s fixation on the kissing of the Koran is tiresome. The Church faithful has to put up with Kasper, Marx, Daneels and others of their ilk and cpola keeps dragging up John Paul II and the Koran.
    Please go away. Nobody here is impressed with you.

  • “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea and land to make a convert, and when he becomes a convert, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.”
    (Matthew 23 v 15)
    Phillip, I rest my case for now. But I will not rest till I see the eyes of faithful Catholics opened to the lies of the past 50 years.

  • Great cpola, aka “The De-Evangelist.”
    Maybe your opinions will help to cease the increase in vocations to the priesthood.
    Maybe you’ll turn potential converts away from Holy Church. Maybe you’ll get your eternal rewards, and wonder why YOU are in the smoking section.
    Much to ponder.

  • Many many people made the mistake of identifying Islam as a religion of peace, even as a great religion. The relativistic malaise of the twentieth century certainly sickened the Church along with the rest of the world. B16 tried to call out Islam and got smacked down hard.

    I guess John Paul 2 did a lot of wonderful things, but also made some mistakes about Islam, the extent of sexual sin in the priesthood and probably ecumenism.. God rest his soul.
    Even though he was a very holy man, I do think many mistakes were made during the time of JP2 pontificate,
    The credibility of the Church in naming saints took a big hit with the naming of John 23. Made it all look political…no miracles that I know of.
    I don’t agree with cpola, but know he has a right to his opinions and to express them.

  • Guest said
    From Spencer’s concluding sentence:
    “As the bishops enrich themselves off the flood of refugees pouring into the United States, they can congratulate themselves that no one, not even the “flock” they have betrayed, will hold them accountable for what they have done.”
    ….anyhow), how does one, or the flock, “hold them accountable”?
    I wonder that too,Guest. maybe Canon lawyer Peters knows if we laity have any recourse?

Some Religions Are More Equal Than Others

Monday, October 12, AD 2015

16 Responses to Some Religions Are More Equal Than Others

  • The fish rots from the head down. What you notice is the effect that Obama has on his subordinates and the permanent government: they tell lies that do not pass a laugh test. See Douglas Shulman, who when asked why he was such a frequent visitor to the White House given that the previous IRS commissioner was hardly ever there mentioned the Easter Egg Roll.

  • Obama may prove to be the gravest misfortune ever to hit the American people.
    Anybody that voted for Obama is an idiot. If you were on fire, I would not urinate on you.

  • I dunno. McCain and Romney both lost to Obama. What does that make them?

  • On a more serious note, the expected liberal reaction would be that this is proof of widespread endemic institutionalized relgious discrimination. Personally, assuming of course that this is true and not just another example of the besserwissen of The Deciders, I see this as evidence of a potential Islamic radicalization problem in our penal system

  • Polling inmates…?
    And the yacht club privilege for the prisoners who miss sailing. Oh, let’s not forget the annual formal meet and greet for inmates.

    Obama is turkey s%€t!
    Impeachment is to kind.

  • I’ll eat all the pork these dang Muzzies won’t have1 BTW, wouldn’t it be funny if food riots broke out in prisons because the Non-Muslim inmates got ticked over thr no-pork rule?

  • Wonder what the Obama daughters are having for lunch at Sidwell Friends School?
    The feds need to get out of the lunch rooms of schools across the nation.

    Apparently the pork producers haven’t contributed as much money to the DNC as the chicken producers have. I’d be interested to know what complete protein substitute is on the fed prison menus. Maybe imported tofu made by the Administration’s ChiCom friends? Tofu with its high phytoestrogen content to feminize the predominately male prison population?
    Pork too expensive? Food prices continue to rise whose fault is that, Mr President?

    Ibrahim Hooper is happy about the decision. Black Muslims are very successful proselytizing in prisons and there IS a potential for Islamic radicalizing.

  • Where is the data? I tend to be skeptical of even properly conducted studies that don’t match my experience but I have no faith in those studies with no data.

  • Rice and beans. There was an actual war in India, (I cannot remember the name or the time) that was prevented when one side told the Hindus that the gunpowder was sealed with beef fat, The Hindus consider the cow sacred. The Muslims were told that their gunpowder was seal with pork fat. Neither side would press for war while having to open the gun powder sack with his teeth. Rice and beans. Then the inmates would not have the strength to overpower the guards and cause riots. It will also keep the inmate population to minimum. Let me say it again: Rice and beans is the only recourse the government has against criminals.

  • There is one fact that underlies all this that people need to understand: Muslim gangs are very effective in our prisons and constantly gain new converts. It goes without saying that a religion partly founded on a 7th century culture that practiced thievery and bride abduction (ahem, rape) would find attraction among 21st century American criminals.

  • Mary DeVoe.
    Rice and Beans!
    Great addition to the thread.

    Obama imprisonment would be an improvement in our diet. I’d stop eating pork for that righteous cause. Send Obama to jail!
    Change we can believe in! 🙂

  • To Hell with rice and beans. Chain them (hand and foot) to the cell walls and feed them bread and water. They would not want to go back to prison.

    That used to be called the Sepoy Rebellion when Hindu and Muslim mercenaries working for the Brit East India Company mutinied (ignorance and superstition: cow, pig, or whatever greased the cartridges) and tried to kill all the whites, including women and children at Cawnpore. The British Army and rational Sikhs forcefully suppressed the rebellion. Certain ringleaders were tied to the muzzles of canons and blown to Hell. One result was the British government took over administration of India from the Company.

  • Thanks Philip, I knew you would make my day. Thanks Mr. McClarey I knew you would know the name of the rebellion. There is no reason that the criminals ought to be treated better than their victims. OK, T. Shaw, bread and water.

  • Pork is back on the menu! They had to know this was going to happen. Why do it then? Get credit from the Muslims for trying?

Bear Growls: Pamela Geller

Monday, May 11, AD 2015



Saint Corbinian’s Bear is bemused about the hysteria regarding Geller’s Draw Mohammed contest:

See the picture above. Does anything strike you as odd? Muslims attack us, and we are the ones who have to be reminded to be nice? This is a standard tactic: play the victim card. Close down discussion. You don’t want to be a hater, do you?

The condemnation of Pamela Geller’s free speech exercise in Garland, Texas by L’Osservatore Romano was unintentionally hilarious, as were thousands across the globe. They might as well have said that Muslims are mad dogs who can’t control themselves when something (Muhammad drawing, accidental Quran burning, the historical fact of First Crusade, Friday) triggers their irresistible urge to kill. Because in their warnings not to do anything that might offend our delicate Muslim cousins, they not only damn free speech, but could not be more condescending to the very people they’re trying to protect. They’re like Bear Safety Tips.

The Bear would not be the first to draw a comparison to someone blaming rape on the way women dress. “Geller had it coming.” Oh, come to think of it, the last person the Bear remembers doing that was Chief Australian Muslim cleric Taj al-Din al-Hilawi in 2006.

Sheik Hilawi was quoted as saying: “If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the back yard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it… whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem.” Yep, ladies, better keep that cat-meat covered!

Pope Francis, who never saw a religion he didn’t like — except some elements of Catholicism — has said you cannot make fun of another religion.

Drawing a picture of a supposedly historical figure is not making fun of any religion. Giving some group advance veto power over speech is the end of free speech in principle.

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23 Responses to Bear Growls: Pamela Geller

  • Homer, Iliad, Book XXI, “Striong hatred defender of peoples.”

  • So we had a high school girls tennis tournament this past Friday; the weather was fairly hot and humid, and the concrete courts in the full sun, well, they were at least 10F hotter. Still, it wasn’t that bad in standard high school tennis attire, and any teen age girl who plays tennis regularly should have been able to handle it well.
    Most of them anyway. One (two?) the the teams had a number of girls who were dressed head-to-toe in headscarves, large shades, long athletic type pants, jackets even. One of the coaches had to come into the building to grab a Ziploc-ed bag of ice that was to be placed on the head of one of the girls with a headscarf so she wouldn’t get heat stroke.
    I shook my head. He shook his head. Neither of us could say anything.

  • DJ Hesselius.

    Thank goodness their not on the dive team. Headscarves could cause serious injury when entering the pool from the high dive.

    All kidding aside, the girls may want to switch disciplines. Just a thought.

  • As a matter of good manners I am normally opposed to offending the religious sensibilities of anyone.

    A much neglected aspect of good manners is knowing when you should be rude, to keep someone from spiraling ever-ruder. Not usually taught to children and avoided by the adult but hot-headed because it’s a temptation to justify bad impulses by it, but it does exist.
    Not sure about other folks, but “do something you know some modern sects will find offensive in response to death threats and previous murders on suspicion” is a rather grossly exaggerated example of a minor rudeness to let someone know they are being rude.
    I must wonder– what do these folks think the extremists do to their neighbors who share 99.9% of their religious positions, but not that additional one?
    For that matter, do they realize that the sects that think Mohammad should never be shown got more popular because they killed those who disagreed? (There are historical pictures of Mohammad, a search will bring them up.)

  • I am not personally brave. I admire those who do step up to right wrongs even despite mortal danger. Sometimes, besides not being brave, I also am held back from action because I have to really think things over…and over.. (Like when I first read Geo Weigel about pre-emptive strike) Maybe I am one of today’s nabobs, disabled by what-ifs and what-abouts. Anyway, God bless Pamela Geller.

  • The poster is right – Jesus’ message is love and faith, not fear and hate.

    Fear and hate is Mohammed’s message.

  • Ironic, that one of the ads on this thread is for a Muslim marriage site.

  • The ads are google generated cmatt and vary by the computer used to access the site. I normally get a bunch of book and yarn ads.

  • I admire Geller’s courage, but her tactics are not admirable. Gratuitously insulting other faiths is simply wrong. The vast majority of Muslims are not jihadists, and Geller’s stunt wounded them just as the gratuitous molestation of a consecrated host wounds us. Of course, such acts, whoever reprehensible, cannot justify a violent response. And it would be imprudent beyond measure to try to criminalize such infantile behavior. Geller was within her legal rights and deserves the protection of the law. She is still a jerk.

  • Philip: I agree, they shouldn’t be playing tennis if they aren’t wearing the right gear, but alas, not my call. And no, one does not need to wear revealing Lululemon to play tennis well. Most tennis uniforms I’ve seen are pretty basic and not skanky. More “conservative” districts can always find 14 inch skirts, or skirts with capris, and a looser fitting dry-fit top. It isn’t that hard nor that expensive.
    I’m not even sure it is the coach’s call on who plays and what they wear. (They were out of town folk.) If the girl can swing a racket and hit the ball, it is my impression she is on at least the JV team no matter what she is wearing and might hit heat stroke.

  • Mike, The First Amendment is operative.
    Someone needs to tell those people that Almighty God doesn’t need them to punsih blasphemers.

    Not sure she is a jerk. I think she’s “diablical.” Maybe Ms. Geller set a trap and tallied a body count. It could have gone differently.

  • T,
    Of course the 1st Amendment is operative. So what? All kinds of odious conduct is protected by the 1st Amendment, and that is as it should be, just as the violent response is unprotected andunlawful as it should be. But none of that rescues her behavior from its odious nature.

  • gratuitous
    [gruh-too-i-tuh s, -tyoo-]
    Spell Syllables
    Synonyms Examples Word Origin
    1. given, done, bestowed, or obtained without charge or payment; free; voluntary.
    2. being without apparent reason, cause, or justification:
    a gratuitous insult.

    Would you like to make the case that “do not make an image of Mohammad, or we will kill you” is without reason, cause or justification in people responding negatively, or are you sticking with blaming those who do not fold under to threats of death?
    Please keep in mind that land which was once under Muslim control and currently is not is also an extreme insult, not to mention the issue of those who convert away from Islam– even if they were only members because their father was.
    The vast majority of Muslims are not jihadists,

    The vast majority of the US has never served in the armed forces, either; it does not follow that thus only a fraction support the actions of the US armed forces.
    and Geller’s stunt wounded them just as the gratuitous molestation of a consecrated host wounds us.

    No, it doesn’t.
    Mohammad is not God, his image is not his body, and those who are objecting are basically the homicidal version of those Christians who object to statues and paintings of saints and the Christ.
    The Islamic tradition against the images also forbids images of Allah and all the Prophets– including Jesus and Abraham. To prevent idolatry.
    If you want an analogous situation to drawing Mohammad, there’s this:
    It is as if someone, in response to wide-spread threats of violence over a lack of respect to images of Christ, and after many murders, drew an image of Christ on the Cross doing something that was offensive to those committing the murders.

  • Is this a terrible thought?

    The police killed terrorist that evening.
    Two men died that were armed and dangerous. They died because of their hatred.

    So be it.

    CAIR can call Geller a hate speech enthusiast all they want. The fact is two terrorist will not be planting a smart bomb tomorrow or next month. They are forever with their satanic idol.
    Geller a jerk? No. She is exposing the threat.

  • Gratuitously insulting other faiths is simply wrong. The vast majority of Muslims are not jihadists, and Geller’s stunt wounded them just as the gratuitous molestation of a consecrated host wounds us. Of course, such acts, whoever reprehensible, cannot justify a violent response. And it would be imprudent beyond measure to try to criminalize such infantile behavior.

    I attended a legal seminar the other day where the instructor noted that a surplus of adjectives and adverbs, particularly in a legal brief, was a sign that the person writing was unconvinced by their own arguments. It is perhaps, at the least, a sign of a weaker argument. Just saying.

  • I was going to say Gellar’s “insult” was too calculated to be gratuitious, but foxfier beat me to it.

  • If we care so much about the delicate sensitivities of Muslims, why are we offending them by tolerating, say, homosexual marriage?

  • Mike, the last time I can recall you offering an emphatic opinion, it was to tell us that it was intolerable that a nun offered a group of students at a “Catholic” high school a precis of a literature review in The Linacre Quarterly. Now you’re telling us that Pamela Geller’s Mo’toons contest is as well. Personally, I doubt I’d have to travel far from my home to find perfectly gruesome displays. Somehow, I get through the day and I do not think the local police would be all that impressed if I shot up the nearest community theatre offering a performance of Angels in America.

    Some people make exhibits of themselves. Cannot pay too much attention or you just get more exhibits.

  • Great comment, good thinking Philip

  • To find out why you are wrong Mike Petrik- google “peaceful majorities irrelevant”-eg those now in Muslim-controlled countries and that in Germany in 1938-and do not miss Brigitte Gabriel’s speech about this. And also, note that there was once here a “peaceful majority” that did not want to upset the “blacks are sub-human property” applecart and that there is a “peaceful majority” here now in the US while 3500-4000 human beings PER DAY are murdered, some simply because they are Black, some simply because they are Hispanic, and thousands simply because they are girls. Mike, moral peaceful majorities must come out loudly and publicly against the murderous minority or their assumed Pollyanna “peace” will destroy even them. Guy McClung, San Antonio

  • Take a chill pill, Mike.

    Let us not surrender in to savages.

    In other news: “Blogger hacked to death in Bangladesh, third this year.”

  • The problem with Islam is that anyone (I mean man), can grow a beard, slap on a tunic and take a vacation to Mecca- and come back and declare themselves a “sheikh”. Any “sheikh” can declare themselves an “expert” in interpreting the Koran- just like Hilawi. Who mind you, even though holding the position of the highest Muslim in English speaking Australia, needed himself an interpreter because he couldn’t speak English. Hilawi was a convicted thief who was jailed for theft in Egypt. And he was charged for driving an unregistered car and his offensive behaviour to police officers when they stopped him. Yep! The highest cleric in Australia. The senior expert on cat meat and women.

    Muslims twist the Koran to their advantage- thats how they can shut down a logical argument. Don’t draw Mohammad. Don’t criticise. Don’t trust a non- Muslim.

    Plus, their religion thrives on fear and suspicion. That’s probably the common thing that unites them. It’s unfortunate to the intelligent, and good- intentioned Muslim person that they get bundled in with the scum.

    Blame Mohammad- he should have thought ahead when crafting his Islam.

    As Westerners come under fire for drawing cartoons of Muhammad, Bangladeshi bloggers are being killed with hatchets for professing disbelief in the Islamic prophet or simply promoting a secular society.

    They view it as an “attack,” you see.

Murder on the High Seas

Friday, April 17, AD 2015

6 Responses to Murder on the High Seas

A Horrific Crime You Will Probably Hear Little About

Wednesday, February 11, AD 2015

Craig Hicks



May the souls of the three murder victims rest in peace.  You probably won’t hear much about this crime:


Police say a dispute over a parking space spurred the murder Tuesday of three North Carolina college students, but the Muslim father of two of the victims insisted Wednesday that his daughters’ neighbor and alleged killer had menaced them before and was driven by hate.

Craig Stephen Hicks, 46, was charged with three counts of first-degree murder after turning himself in to police in Chapel Hill overnight. Although a Facebook page in Hicks’ name that described him as a supporter of “Atheists for Equality” and blasted “radical Christians and radical Muslims” for causing strife in the world prompted rampant suspicion the crime was motivated by hate, police said Wednesday it was about a parking space at the condominium complex where the murders took place.

Those killed were Deah Shaddy Barakat, 23; his wife, Yusor Abu-Salha, 21; and her sister, Raleigh, N.C. resident Razan Abu-Salha, Chapel Hill Police said in a statement.


Three Victims

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12 Responses to A Horrific Crime You Will Probably Hear Little About

  • That is quite a list! No wonder Mr. Hicks went off the deep end. His consumption of liberal junk food combined with anti-God poison finished off any soul he once harbored. One could call him the perfect liberal. Mindless heartless wretch.

  • Thanks for highlighting this news story. While Mr Hicks may be what some call hardcore Atheist, many of his facebook likes seems to stand more for equality. As an Irish Catholic I have many friends who would class themselves as left wing Atheist’s, but would not dream of shooting anyone. To be honest many extremists be it Muslim, Christian or whatever view often use their beliefs or political opinions as an excuse to use violence. These were three beautiful people that were shot, who were also very charitable. Sadly too many Muslim’s are being oppressed and living in fear, yet the media has chosen to ignore this. To believe in God is to believe in Love and the best way to respond is not hate or revenge but love.

  • Philip is correct. No one is more intolerant than a liberal leftist.

  • “seems to stand more for equality.”

    Only if anyone to the right of Stalin is not included in said equality judging from his facebook page.

  • Interestingly NPR ran a short on this tragic event. They only eluded to the possibility of Mr. Hicks being “mad.”
    No mention of his Facebook. Par for course NPR.

    By the way, prayers to all victims…including the victim of Left wing atheism..Mr. Hicks. May God convert him prior to his final parking space.

  • I’m not sure if atheism contributed to his hatred, but Facebook definitely did. Computers aren’t good for you. I’m serious about this. At a minimum, too much time with people who ratchet up each other’s anger isn’t good for you.

  • J.C., too many Muslims living in fear?! Oh, please! The Muzzies are causing way too many of us Christians to live in fear!
    Don, Walid Shoebat agrees with you about this guy.

  • After King Abdullah II’s response to the immolation of his aircraft pilot, and after Queen Rania’s comforting of the pilot’s widow, and after the murder of these three young students right here in my own backyard of North Carolina, I now have to change how I view Muslims. My opinion of Islam itself remains unchanged – it is a false religion. But what happened to those three young people and to Jordan’s aircraft pilot are crimes perpetrated by evil, wicked men. The former is a liberal leftist atheist and the later are radical Islamic terrorists. That’s a horse of a different color from King Abdullah or the three young people above who got murdered. By the way, I have worked with Muslims. One was my department manager – a Shiite. He had the Koran on his desk and he treated all his workers with fairness and justice. Another was a Sunni – a fellow engineer who saw me praying my Rosary Beads at lunch time and took the opportunity to share his Muslim prayer beads. We exchanged books and had good theological talks, though we agreed on nothing. I loathe what Islam historically has done, but I will be damned myself before I damn my co-workers to hell. I can’t win anyone to Christ if I act like a donkey’s behind.

  • “I can’t win anyone to Christ if I act like a donkey’s behind.”

    Comment of the week Paul. Take ‘er away Sam!

  • Any wagers as to his Party affiliation?

  • James, surprisingly Craig Stephen Hicks is unaffiliated:
    North Carolina has a public database where a person’s affiliation can be searched:
    I show up as unaffiliated too because my Party – Constitution – doesn’t have enough members to be recognized under NC State Law.
    By the way, I have used this database to search party affiliation of priests where I may go to Mass. It is no surprise that, for those registered to vote, the social justice types are usually Democrats and the traditional orthodox types are usually Republicans.

A Tale of Conquest?

Thursday, September 4, AD 2014

Islamic Conquest


The Anchoress asks the pertinent question:


Do The Rapes of Rotherham Tell a Tale of Conquest?

What Rotherham puts me in mind of is the behavior of the conqueror. One of the terrible after-effects of invasion and war has been the subjugation of the women, the rape of wives and daughters, the seed of the conqueror, inserted into a culture and a society — yet another tactic meant to subdue and eradicate.

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13 Responses to A Tale of Conquest?

  • One only has to read, should read, “The Sword of the Prophet’ by Serge Trifkovic to know how the muslim truly thinks. I do no mean understand. In the minds of many active Muslims America was conquered by the 9/11bombings. They were never punished and some suffered martyrdom. Rotherham with its lack too of an appropriate devastating reply is again a battle and conquest of the infidels they can act without reprisals and that is why they despise us. They will do it again both actions and soon, knowing that their nation will not be conquered and some will be martyred. A fitting conclusion in their eyes. In reality and probably in the thoughts of their Imams they own us lock stock and barrel and it is only a matter of time when Allah will show it.

  • Today’s NY Times has a fascinating video on the lone Shiite survivor of an ISIS June massacre who was not shot as the others were shot on the ground around him. At night he fled but only survived because a Sunni family did hide him despite his being Shiite and even though ISIS became aware of his survival, that family drove him into a safe area. But prior to meeting them, he initially ate worms prior to swimming across the Tigris which still left him in ISIS territory….where good Sunni’s gave him tomatoes etc. Then he met the heroic family who saved him. Now he is back with his wife and two little children.
    Check out that fascinating video at the Times.

  • Trifkovic’s book is okay, but I think Robert Spencer’s works are far better. They essentially agree, but Spencer is much better sourced and more thorough.

  • God Bless You Mr. McClarey for this post!

  • You are aware that not all of the perpetrators of these crimes were Muslims?

  • “You are aware that not all of the perpetrators of these crimes were Muslims?”

    Yep. Were you aware that almost all of them were?

    “A researcher who raised the alarm over the sexual abuse of teenage girls in Rotherham more than a decade ago was sent on a ‘ethnicity and diversity course’ by child protection bosses who refused to act on her evidence.

    The researcher, who was seconded to Rotherham council by the Home Office, was told she must “never, ever” again refer to the fact that the abusers were predominantly Asian men.

    Speaking to the BBC’s Panorama programme under the condition of anonymity, the researcher said that she identified more 270 victims of trafficking and underage prostitution by mainly Muslim gangs in Rotherham.

    But, despite being sent to Rotherham Council, the report – based on interviews with underage girls seeking help from the council’s anti-child prositution project, called Risky Business – was never published.”

  • Some Muslims abuse young girls So do some people professing to be Christians or Buddhists.

    It’s the same crime whether it’s a Muslim or a Mormon. I don’t see anything to be gained by turning this into a racial or relious affair.

  • There is this concept called correlation. It does not necessarily prove that one thing causes or is the cause of another, but it does give one prudent suggestions. For example, being alone at night in a dark alley in the inner parts of a large city show high correlation with being a victim of a crime. This does not mean night, dark alleys, or inner parts of large cities cause crime. Yet, no sane person disputes it would be prudent to avoid such places if feasible.

  • “It’s the same crime whether it’s a Muslim or a Mormon.”

    Dead wrong. Muslims, unlike Mormons, have a history of engaging in this type of activity in war in regard to women they take prisoner and it is approved by the Koran. Westerners who ignore this do so at their peril and the peril of the innocents they should be attempting to protect.

    Not all Muslims approve of this of course, but those who do not are confronting those who are able to cite the Koran as justification for their actions, and in an Islamic culture or subculture the Koran is a powerful trump card.

  • “I don’t see anything to be gained by turning this into a racial or relious affair.”

    All religions are equally good. Indeed. Except Islam, which is really, really good. Even though there are a lot of misunderstanders who call themselves Muslim and do really horrible things while quoting the Koran and hadiths. Worse luck, the misunderstanders always make the same horrible mistakes in Muslim majority nations, too. Islam is really, really good–terrific, even!–but it must be super-complicated because so many people who grow up Muslim don’t seem to understand how it condemns all the bad stuff they constantly do in the name of Islam. Which is super-terrific, by the way.

  • Islam has no Holy Spirit, as Allah has no son to love and no son to love him. None of the World Trade Center bombers have returned from eternity to prove that they are in heaven with their promised 72 virgins.
    Put to death all that is sinful in your members, in your mind, in your heart and in your soul. Sadly, some muslims have cofused this and try to purify themselves by putting to death their neighbors.

Jihad, U. S. Branch

Tuesday, September 2, AD 2014

Christopher Johnson, a non-Catholic who has taken up the cudgels so frequently for the Church that I have named him Defender of the Faith, suggests that if you are not nervous about Jihad, you probably should be:

You might want to look into the idea:

Columbus [Indiana] Police said they’ve never had anything like it – three churches vandalized in the same night.

Someone spray painted them on the outside. It’s the words used, though, that have some people asking if this was more than a prank.

“It was just one word. It said ‘Infidels!’” Father Doug Marcotte said of what was spray painted on Saint Bartholomew’s Catholic Church in Columbus overnight Saturday.

Parishioners saw that, along with the word “Qur’an 3:151″ on their way into mass Sunday morning.

“It’s certainly not a warm and fuzzy verse. It talks about the infidels, their refuge being the fire,” explained Father Marcotte.

Specifically, that passage of the Qur’an reads: “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.”

Saint Bartholomew’s wasn’t the only Columbus church vandalized.

“It’s really bizarre and the fact that they hit two other Christian Churches. It’s not like we’re all in a line. So why did they pick the three of us?” asked Father Marcotte.

Outside East Columbus Christian Church and Lakeview Church of Christ, members there found the same kind of graffiti Sunday morning.

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48 Responses to Jihad, U. S. Branch

  • Good to see the response of the Islamic Society of Columbus. It wouldn’t shock me at all to learn that the perpetrators were not Muslim, but simply agitators looking to stir up controversy and trouble. And with no more care, than a delinquent pulling a fire alarm.

  • “but simply agitators looking to stir up controversy and trouble.”

    Yes, no doubt simply the fault of outside agitators rather than the adherents of a faith that view Christians and Jews as enemies and infidels.

  • – Or maybe it was a unruly group of cloistered nuns out of their cells for a bit of mischief.

    Wake up and smell the Koran.

    Please thank your President for the warm welcome of this ideology into a once God fearing Nation. Remember…”we are not a Christian Nation.”

  • I’m in Peoria, Il., and there’s a mosque only 3.5 miles from where I live. I didn’t even know it was there until an old friend of my family told me about it. Heck, they even had the street it’s on renamed Salaam Dr.! I wonder how soon will I see Quran verses sprayed on the walls of local churches?

  • “Our community condemns such actions and believes that Columbus is not a place for such a behavior.” Does that imply there is a place for such behavior? Mosul? Damascus? London? New York? St. Lawrence of Brindisi, pray for us.

  • “Specifically, that passage of the Qur’an reads: “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.” “Qur’an 3:151″
    Allah will not be pleased to be used by those inflicting their own will as the will of Allah. The passage applies directly and correctly to those individuals who use Allah as an excuse to do what they will outside the law. How do these people know what is in the heart and mind of any other person? Calling another person “infidel” means that one knows what is in the heart and mind of that person. This is only possible for God.

  • If your members of Catholic Daughters and Knights of Columbus aren’t packing heat in the parish’s parking lot during masses and have a phone to call 911 ready-to-hand…

  • I’ll be impressed when The Islamic Society of Columbus, Indiana pays to clean away the vandalism. Until then, meh.

  • Everyone is so amazed that I express skepticism that Muslims were behind this. Don et. al. did you read the article linked to in the column and in particular the words of Fr. Marcotte? Remember him? The one whose parish was defaced? He wasn’t quite as sure as all of you, or evidently “Defender of the Faith” Johnson. From Fr. Marcotte: “…is this someone that’s trying to incite people against Muslims? I mean I DON’T KNOW.” (emphasis mine). No he doesn’t. And until an arrest is made neither do you. Until then I’ll suspend my outrage. Like Fr. Marcotte.

  • Of course until the culprits are apprehended no one does know who they are. However, to immediately assume that muslims are not behind this and that instead mysterious outside agitators are, strikes me as ludicrous, no matter who makes that particular leap in illogic. If someone vandalizes a Church and cites the Koran, I will assume that muslims are behind it, unless other evidence arises to prove the contrary.

    Such vandalism of churches is an every day occurrence in lands where muslims are in a majority. It helps remind Christians luckless enough to live there of their dhimmi status. This is not unusual conduct at all for radical muslims to engage in.

  • It is certainly possible that this was a “false flag” sort of thing to raise resentment (not that much help is needed with co-religionists like ISIS around). But a reflexive “no true Muslim could this” approach isn’t all that plausible either.

  • I do agree with c matt that a reflexive “no true Muslim could do this” approach isn’t called for, but the whole point is that the police are investigating and the parish priest is withholding judgment. Would it kill us to do likewise until an arrest is made? And Don is certainly right about the plight of Christians in Muslim nations, but I want to be careful not to fit an incident in a mid-size Indiana city having what is likely a small Islamic population, into that horrific broader narrative without more facts. I have learned over the years not to react viscerally just because a story or column in the media suggests that I should. There will be a time and manner to deal with the perpetrators if and when they are caught. In the meantime justice demands that we not rush to judgment. I think our Faith demands no less of us.

  • Outside agitators like who? Reminds me of that term “plausible deniability”.. a kind of semantic and false game sometimes played.
    Yes the evidence is so far just circumstantial. Some are hesitant to call a spade a spade even when their common sense tells them the truth.
    That lofty position of non -judgment is not always good! Realize that even if and when arrests are made and people are officially accused, it will still be technically possible to be in willful denial about blaming jihadist muslims.

  • Who could our hypothetical agitator be? Got me. Do an internet search of “graffiti hoaxes” and see what you come up with. Maybe it’ll be one of them. Or better yet don’t bother. Wait until the crime is solved and then we won’t have to guess. Nor will we have to be in denial, willful or otherwise, about the identity of the perpetrator and what their likely motivation was.

  • I share your concern w/our inane immigration policy; however, the presence of a Muslim center is not so much an indictment of our suicidal immigration policy as it is an indictment of our prison policy. Consider that a large number of Muslims in this country are a product of prison conversions, and in fact these new members are often blessed w/the zeal of the new convert, so i i’m laying odds, that’s who i’m laying odds on.

  • Yes, it could certainly have been done by actual jihadist Muslims, but I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that ordinary non-Muslim troublemakers are “not literate enough” to quote the Quran. Copies of the Quran aren’t that hard to find. And if conversions to Islam among prison inmates are as common as indicated above, who’s to say that a friend or relative of an ex-con, who is still hanging around with unsavory companions, didn’t get the idea from reading said friend/relatives copy of the Quran?

    All I’m saying is that we can’t rule out any possibility, including the possibility that it was done simply by some jerk who wanted to see people freak out and NOT necessarily by a serious jihadist bent on warning the people of Indiana that it was time to convert or die.

  • Occam’s Razor doesn’t always arrive at the right answer Elaine, but it usually does. If some vandal cites the Koran I am going to assume he was a Muslim until evidence to the contrary is discovered. Prison conversions to Islam are rare, unless one is talking about the Nation of Islam which is to actual Islam as Roscicrucianism is to Catholicism.

  • We in the U.S. have had the airline jihad on 9/11/2001, the IED jihad at Times Square and the Boston Marathon, multiple examples of parking lot and college campus SUV jihad, the Washington DC Beltway sniper jihad, and many examples of stillborn jihad thanks to the FBI. There will be more. Does anyone really think that it matters if this graffiti was put there by some smart-aleck kids, or not?

  • What matters most?

    TomD points to recent incidents here in the land of the free. It’s a war that’s been waged on Christianity for centuries and it’s now in our backyard.

    Q: Do we become desensitized to any form of hatred toward Christianity?

    Q: Do we prepare by steadfast faith in the possibility of red martyrdom to come?

    Will the most popular newborn male name be Mohamed in these United States? If so, is it because it invokes a message of peace, or rather a message of world conquest and domination.

    Only time will tell.

  • While the certainty of facts and the identity of the culprits are being developed in this matter, Chris C’s mock-shock at the likelihood of a Catholic Church being vandalized by Muslim youth, esp. given the facts so far, is hard to sustain.

    For what it is worth, in Belgium (particularly around Genk and the urban areas of Brussels) where one of my daughters lives, it is so common for Muslim youth to spray paint the Catholic Churches with Quran citations and threats that most of the churches now have locked cyclone fences surrounding them during the week or after morning services (in particular you can see this at the main parish church in Genk). So many youth that are Muslims have been apprehended that to believe otherwise as to whom is behind the matter is a practiced blindness that must take a lot of energy to maintain.
    So now it has come to America—as has been promised by the imams. So now open your eyes.

  • Steve, do you think you know more about the situation than the folks in Columbus, Indiana? Fr. Marcotte of St. Bartholomew, and a minister at one of the other of the vandalized churches probably know their community, including their Islamic neighbors a lot better than you do. They are withholding judgment and giving their neighbors the benefit of the doubt. Why can’t you?

  • chris c., haven’t you learned anything about Islam since 9/11/2001?

  • Stephen, I guess I have learned about as much as Fr. Marcotte. Enough to continue to act like a Christian, by the grace of God, “in season and out.” In this case it means withholding judgment and being careful not to condemn until all the facts are known. Perhaps you and others have been busy learning something else.

  • Mr Dalton, you don’t understand: it isnt sufficient for one to choose to be blind, but you too must share his blindness.

    “To believe otherwise as to whom is behind the matter is a practiced blindness that must take a lot of energy to maintain.
    As in Genk, as in Brussels, as in Paris, So now it has come to America—as has been promised by the imams. So now open your eyes.”

  • chris c.

    Cool heads in this case is good advice.

    Losing your head from the sword of a coward is a reality. No question about it. This early determination on the culprit (s) is speculative and if your false flag idea proves true then shame on me.

    Beheadings are evil. The emotions are running high. No excuse to rush though.

  • chris c., Christians are told to be as innocent as doves and as wise as serpents. Please stop dropping the wisdom part from your homiletics. Christians cannot, must not, turn a blind eye to the evils perpetrated for Islam, and so cannot turn a blind eye to the potential for Islamic violence in many Muslims who until now have never committed such acts. I refuse to prejudge any Muslim as a potential jihadist, but I refuse to prejudge a Muslim to not be a jihadist either. All the evidence in the world shows that there are many shades of gray in Islam.

  • Tom, as it pertains to this case, I’ll do my best to maintain the same level of Christ-informed wisdom as exhibited by Fr. Marcotte in his comments. No more and no less. My interest in this discussion is about the specific matter in Columbus Indiana. A broader discussion about Jihad or Islam is for another day as far as I am concerned. My comments relate to 3 churches in Columbus Indiana, and the distinct possibility, as noted by Fr. Marcotte and the pastor of another defaced church, that indeed this MAY not be as it appears. Or maybe it is. Who knows until an arrest is made. But it sounds as if you and a few others maybe the ones who are too innocent. Graffiti+Defaced Church+Koran verse = Jihad. Maybe. Maybe a “false flag” provocation. There have been enough hoaxes, some involving graffiti, some not; to make it wise to withhold judgment.

  • TomD, Gnostics have wisdom that you and I do not. Also, a lack of curiosity as to the fact that 3 Christian churches were vandalized but no mosques. However, Columbus, IN, unlike most rural Indiana towns, does have a putative mosque, the Islamic Society, right in downtown, at 23rd & Chestnut. Oh, by the way, it is about 8 blocks from St. Bartholomew’s Church (.6 mi). Oh, by the way the other two churches are about 5-8 min. short drive, all within about 3 mi. of the Islamic Society site. Just a coincidence.)
    Oh, by the way,since I am familiar with this part of Indiana,it should be noted that there are no synagogues in Columbus, IN (nearest ones are in Bloomington and Indianapolis), so please note, that is why they werent nailed. In case you non-Gnostics were wondering.

  • chris c., jihad is the central tenant of Islam. All other requirements of Islam, including the Five Pillars, may be excused if excusing them brings victory in jihad. Fatwa after fatwa makes this clear, and any fatwa to the contrary can be viewed as an expression of shirk, which is the greatest sin a Muslim can make (and the reason so many are killed by their co-religious). The deck is simply stacked against decent Muslims who want to live their lives out in any other way. I have no problem seeing a Muslim teen spraying Quranic references on Christian churches in Indiana as fulfilling a minor and relatively harmless jihad. Who knows, he may go to college and make a fortune on Wall Street or do kidney transplants, and never do another act of jihad, but deep down he would know exactly why he did what he did.
    As to the local Indiana clergy, I just have to assume they are like nearly everyone else and prefer not to face unpleasant realities.

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  • How does anyone know that it was not done by non Muslim warmongers? Could this have been done by those who want war in the M. East but those who are not anything to do with ISLAM. Could this have been done by JEWS?
    I ask all Catholics to remember how our bible and our faith is viewed differently by others who call themselves Christians and how it can be twisted into something unpleasant by those with twisted minds and evil hearts.

  • “How does anyone know that it was not done by non Muslim warmongers?”

    Yes, I can see why you suspect others considering the pacifism rampant among followers of the prophet. Who could possibly think that the adherents of such a peace loving faith could possibly do this? (The obligatory blame the Joos portion of your comment was a nice touch.)

  • UR:

    My money is on teenaged mutant ninja sasquatches with nothing more productive in their minds.

  • Ursula, how many Jews are going around loping off heads, let alone spray painting Quran verses on churches? Until you or someone else can actually prove such alleged claims, sthu!

  • I have to laugh at Ursula R’s comment about the vandalism likely being done by “THE JOOS”, er, “JEWS, as she puts it”: I have a little familiarity with this part of Indiana and I believe she would be hard-pressed to find a resident Jewish person in much of the heartland here/there. But then again, to satisfy her, perhaps those devilishly clever children of Abraham are at it again, and maybe the Mossad has covered well their tracks— yet again.

  • Amazing that there always has to be someone who must blame the Jews, but the Muslims whose Koran commands them to lie to Jews and Christians, whose Koran tells them to subject Jews and Christians to dhimmitude, whose Koran tells them to slay Jews and Christians by the sword are blameless.
    Yeah. Right.

  • STHU yourself you rude arrogant LP Stephen. Steve, you have to laugh, really intellectual comment or arrogant put down?
    If Jews hate Muslims, as they clearly do with great intensity, leading to loss of life and liberty and loss of land for the Muslims, then surely it would be a really hateful thing to dress up as a Muslim and do something nasty to others so that others hate them too? Now if I were a Muslim and I really hated Jews which really one could hardly wonder at, then it would make sense for me to dress up like one and paint stars with six points onto churches in order to make everyone else hate them too. If someone who had upset me had a big falling out with someone else, if I was evil, I would target that person in order to stitch up the person I was getting revenge on. If I was a black American and I wanted action taken against the Klu klux klan, I could put KKK graffitti everywhere to get them into trouble, If I put on a white gown with hood and I was seen but not caught, they would get into trouble. Evildoing is sneaky and is sneakily done, it is not straightforward and getting others into trouble is more evil than targeting them in an outright way.
    I heard about a Jewish person putting up swastikas near her student living quarters, she was caught on camera.
    Some verses of the Koran were put onto churches, this is more likely to have been done by those who hate Muslims than by Muslims themselves.
    Who is Elliott Shimon?

  • Now if I were a Muslim and I really hated Jews which really one could hardly wonder at, then it would make sense for me to dress up like one and paint stars with six points onto churches in order to make everyone else hate them too.
    Yep, hate of Jews is soooo understandable.

  • Goodbye Ursula. I have zero tolerance for anti-semites. You are banned from this blog.

  • A million surplus Mussies are willing to bear the yoke;
    And, a man is only a man, but a good Mussie is a joke.

    With apologies to Kipling.

  • Don, deleting UR’s posts would be like photoshopping the Quran quotes off of the church photo. Please leave the evidence for all to see.

  • Jesus was a Jew.
    Er, I mean Jesus IS a Jew. After all, He rose from the dead and will never die again and His Mother is certainly Jewish and She is in Heaven with Him.

  • Re. TomD’s cogent comment on “shirk” —i.e.,”… shirk, which is the greatest sin a Muslim can make (and the reason so many are killed by their co-religious).” as a violation to true faith in the oneness of Islam—

    I didnt connect the Qu’ran/Islamic definition to the Merriam-Webster defined definition/origin of the word til reading his post., and our common usage (i.e., “to shirk one’s responsibilities..”)

    Merriam-Webster :
    “In Islam, idolatry and polytheism, both of which are regarded as heretical. The Qu’ran stresses that God does not share his powers with any partner (sharik) and warns that those who believe in idols will be harshly dealt with on the Day of Judgment.

    The concept of shirk has broadened considerably throughout the dogmatic development of Islam, and it has come to be used as the opposite of tawhid (the oneness of God). Different grades of shirk have been distinguished by Islamic law; they include the belief in superstition, belief in the power of created things (e.g., reverencing saints), and belief in those who profess to know the future—all of which pale beside polytheism in seriousness.”

  • Steve: “The concept of shirk has broadened considerably throughout the dogmatic development of Islam”. Exactly right.

    Shirk can now include anything that would constitute what we would term ecumenical outreach. A Muslim who in any way gives any small credence to any other faith can be accused of it. For example, Islam has a version of the Golden Rule, but it is carefully worded to apply only to Muslims. A Muslim who states that the Islamic Golden Rule applies to all of humanity is open to a charge of shirk – unless he proves to his inquisitors that he is engaged in deceit for the sake of jihad. If you are a decent fellow it’s just better to keep quiet and not run the risk.

  • “…all of which pale beside polytheism in seriousness”
    And let us not forget that in Islamic theology the Trinity is a form of polytheism.

  • By the way, TomD, “The concept of shirk has broadened considerably throughout the dogmatic development of Islam”—that is Merriam-Webster “speaking”—note it fast before they are forced to change it!

  • Steve, I think that sentence is already PC. The fact is it “broadened considerably” in the first years of Islam. The broadening was not a linear progression.

Ghanîmah Comes to Rotherham

Sunday, August 31, AD 2014


Rotherham, a city of about 257,000 in Yorkshire, England, is a battleground in a war that has been waged for 13 centuries:
More than 1,400 children were sexually abused over a 16 year period by gangs of paedophiles after police and council bosses turned a blind eye for fear of being labeled racist, a damning report has concluded.

Senior officials were responsible for “blatant” failures that saw victims, some as young as 11, being treated with contempt and categorised as being “out of control” or simply ignored when they asked for help.
In some cases, parents who tried to rescue their children from abusers were themselves arrested. Police officers even dismissed the rape of children by saying that sex had been consensual.
Downing Street on Tuesday night described the failure to halt the abuse in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, as “appalling”.
Following the publication of the report, the leader of Rotherham council, Roger Stone, resigned, but no other council employees will face disciplinary proceedings after it was claimed that there was not enough evidence to take action.

There were calls for Shaun Wright, the Police and Crime Commissioner for South Yorkshire (pictured above, left), to step down after it emerged that he was the councilor with responsibility for children’s services in Rotherham for part of the period covered by the report.

Details of the appalling depravity in the town and the systemic failures that allowed it to continue were laid out in a report published by Professor Alexis Jay, the former chief inspector of social work in Scotland. Victims were gang raped, while others were groomed and trafficked across northern England by groups of mainly Asian men.

When children attempted to expose the abuse, they were threatened with guns, warned that their loved ones would be raped and, in one case, doused in petrol and told they would be burnt alive.

Prof Jay wrote: “No one knows the true scale of child sexual exploitation in Rotherham over the years. Our conservative estimate is that approximately 1,400 children were sexually exploited over the full inquiry period, from 1997 to 2013.

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27 Responses to Ghanîmah Comes to Rotherham

  • “A society that can not protect its kids is a society on its way to extinction.” And remember, right now the most popular boy’s name in England is Mohammed.

  • Yasmin Alibhai Brown (a Ugandan-born British journalist and author, who describes herself as a “leftie liberal, anti-racist, feminist, Muslim, part-Pakistani) had this to say:-
    “The perpetrators are not paedophiles in the normal sense of the word. Racial and cultural odium as much as ugly lust and power drives them to abuse. Most of them are also irreversibly misogynist. It is a lethal mix, this sexist psychopathy.
    I partly blame their families and communities. Too many Asian mothers spoil their boys, undervalue their girls, and demean their daughters-in-law. Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it’s OK to take their girls and ruin them further. Some of the most fierce rows I have ever had have been with Asian women who hold these disgusting views.”
    Of the authorities, she says, “White experts and officers have for too long been reluctant to confront serious offences committed by black and Asian people. Such extreme tolerance is the result of specious morality, that credo that says investigating such crimes would encourage racism or enrage community activists and leaders, or, worse, make the professionals appear racist. So, instead of saving children who were being gang raped, drugged, assaulted, threatened and terrorised, they chose to protect rapists, abusers, traffickers and drug dealers. And themselves.”

  • In a week or two, this horror will be swept under the magic (PC) carpet . . . Some Lower Slobovian, teenage blogger (with 17 readers) will insult Muhammed – paroxysm be on him!
    England doesn’t have the Second Amendment. But, there are large swaths of America where the filthy animals couldn’t get away it.

  • This is the latest in a number of cases to come to light. One of them was in Oxford (what was Inspector Morse doing?) The ever-PC BBC managed to find in Rotherham an Asian woman who claimed (without evidence) that Asian girls were also being abused, so it was not a racial issue. Many of the victims were in local authority ‘care’ after family breakdown, but social services have a culture of treading on eggshells when it comes to dealing with racial minorities. These girls had no parental discipline and the professional care-mongers are incapable and unwilling to exert any control. Occasionally some minion might be held to account, but their grossly overpaid bosses usually walk away with clean hands and are promoted or transferred.

    The Welfare State in the UK has produced a massive army of incompetent and unaccountable public servants. You only have to hear them interviewed to realize that they are not very clever and speak and think in platitudes. A lot of them end up in Parliament and the culture of not accepting blame for anything goes with them. God help us.

  • The Labour Party and the Democrat Party are cut form the same cloth.

  • A crime wave was totally ignored, and soft-on-crime policies allowed vicious violent crime to destroy an urban area, because the political Left wanted to use racial politics to insure its continued position – isn’t that just standard practice in America?

  • Clay,

    Yes it is. Repub Rudy Giuliani beat incumbent Mayor (Obama prototype) David Dinkins and reversed the demise of NYC. After 20 years (Rudy: 8, Midget Mike 12) of policing, (Red Dawn) Bill DiBlazio and blood-thirsty Rev. Al will get killed a couple thousand (more than otherwise) minority, NYC youths.

  • I read the Law and Freedom Foundation’s report on Rotherham. Lots of references to “men who regularly collected [girls] from residential care homes.”

    And so, the tragedy of the commons.

    And people wonder why Catholics insist on preserving the sanctity of the family ideal toward which we can all strive: one man, one woman, caring for their children.

    An interesting subplot from the LFF report is that the Sikh community fought back, bravely, without any help from the government.

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  • Political correctness has a cost in human suffering. It’s just a shame that
    only some of the people responsible will see justice. Most of the apparatchiks
    who demanded the institutionalized blindness and outright dereliction of
    duty this scandal required– well, those people will still be writing policy
    for their bureaucracies years from now.
    Britain has a similar institutionalized blindness/ PC insanity when it comes
    to female genital mutilation as practiced by the nation’s “Asian” population.
    In 1985 Her Majesty’s government passed a law criminalizing FGM. In the
    30-or-so years since then, it has been estimated that 6,500 girls each year
    are at risk for FGM. It is widely known that “cutting parties” will be held
    where families will pool funds and have a ‘doctor’ flown in from the old
    country to mutilate the families’ girls. Such “cutting parties” are known to
    be most often held during school holidays, to give the girls a chance to
    heal before going back to school. Amazingly, details like this are widely
    known, and there have been numerous government studies of the practice
    as it occurs in the UK– yet in the 30 years since FGM was criminalized, it
    wasn’t until a couple of months ago that anyone has ever been
    prosecuted under the law. That’s right– as far as the police and the
    courts have been concerned, FGM has never once happened in the UK in the
    past 30 years. Not because of lack of evidence, since it’s so widely known
    how and when and where it happens– but because prosecution is
    politically inconvenient.
    For thirty years the PC pharisees have insisted that a blind eye be turned to
    FGM as practiced by Her Majesty’s “Asian” subjects. It’s ironic that many if
    not most of those PC enforcers would describe themselves as ‘feminists’,
    yet they’ve perpetuated the suffering of these women all in the name of their
    ideology. Rotherham is but the tip of the iceberg– the institutionalized
    disconnect from reality demanded by the PC culture has caused untold
    suffering in Britain.

  • Penguins Fan wrote, “The Labour Party and the Democrat Party are cut form [sic] the same cloth.”
    The Labour Party lost its soul, when at Tony Blair’s behest it abandoned Clause Four of it constitution: “To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.”

  • Clinton

    FGM is not practised by the Asian community and is unknown on the Indian sub-continent.

    In the UK, it is most widely practiced in the large Somali community, but also by members of the Eritrean, Sudanese and Yemini communities and by some Egyptians and Iraqui Kurds.

    The Prohibition of Female Circumcision Act 1985 first created a specific offence, although, in 1976 the High Court of Justiciary in Scotland had found the indictment for the common law offence of Demembration of the Lieges of a grandmother, who had mutilated her granddaughter relevant to infer the pains of law.

    The Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation (Scotland) Act 2005 covers arranging the FGM of UK citizens or permanent residents anywhere in the world. This means that prosecutors may now take a wide latitude in averring the locus – “or elsewhere to the prosecutor unknown.”

  • Mr. Paterson-Seymour, FGM is indeed practiced in the Indian sub-continent,
    certainly in Pakistan. There, especially in the southern province of Sindh, it
    is widely practiced among the various minorities who were brought to the
    region as slaves back in the 19th century. The WHO has also documented an
    increasing occurrence of FGM in India, Malaysia, and Indonesia. However, you
    are absolutely correct that the vast majority of those who practice FGM in the
    UK are African in national origin.
    MPS, I am sure you would know better than I whether or not the PC term “Asian”
    as used in the UK is used exclusively as a euphemism for Pakistani and Indian
    Muslims or if its use extends to Muslims in general. I am not British.
    In the end, I think my point stands– it seems that the ideology of the PC class
    in Britain would have been threatened by folks speaking frankly about what was
    happening in Rotherham just as it would have been by looking into FGM as it is
    practiced in the UK. And if an untold number of women and children were to
    suffer because the PC mandarins preferred to disconnect from the reality of
    what was going on in order to keep their precious fictions, then the PC mandarins
    appear to have been fine with that.

  • Clinton

    In the UK, “Asian” is used exclusively to describe people from the Sub-Continent, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Nor is it confined to Muslims; Buddhists, Hindus, Jains and Sikhs are included. It is never e used to refer to the Chinese community, for example, nor people from the Arabian peninsula.

    In France, where there have been 100s of prosecutions for FGM, Muslim women’s groups have been particularly vocal in their attacks on “Multiculturalism.” Thus, Sihem Habchi, former President of « Ni Putes Ni Soumises » [Neither Sluts nor Door-mats] has demanded, “No more justifications of our oppression in the name of the right to be different and of respect toward those men who force us to bow our heads”

    She has been echoed by Muslim politicians, notably Rachida Dati, a former Minister of Justice (garde des Sceaux) in the Sarkozy government and by Fadela Amara, a former Secretary of State for Urban Policies. Nor are these lonely or isolated voices. Anyone who knows France and the French press will know that there is great concern about « communautarisme »,by which they mean ethnic and religious solidarities and allegiances that threaten to override Republican unity, whilst politicians, of the Left and Right, berate the perceived racism of “Anglo-Saxon” multiculturalism.

  • It wasn’t all racism on the part of the government. Some of the council bosses were themselves of Pakistani decent. The motives of these particular bosses may have been complex, but ultimately they were siding with their co-religious who were arguably following Quranic verses.

  • An interesting subplot from the LFF report is that the Sikh community fought back, bravely, without any help from the government.

    Well, they knew they couldn’t be accused of racism, unlike the English aborigines.

  • “the Sikh community fought back, bravely, without any help from the government.”

    The Sikhs are traditionally warriors and used to governments that are, at best, useless.

  • The Labour Party lost its soul, when at Tony Blair’s behest it abandoned Clause Four of it constitution:

    The Labour Party lost its soul when it elected to fight political battles by packing the meeting with foreigners. The Democratic Party does the same here. Peter Hitchens has offered a brief memoir of his time as a student pinko and the disposition toward immigration amongst his fellows: they wanted immigration because they did not like Britain, and more foreigners dilutes the influence of native British.

    Compare the biographies of Harry Truman and James Callaghan to those of Barack Obama and the Milliband brothers. That’s what’s happened to the Democratic Party and the Labour Party alike.

  • You might also look at the treatment of Iain Duncan Smith and Sarah Palin in the newspapers. In this country, the public discourse is ostentatiously snobbish in ways you could not imagine in 1975.

  • Supposedly, the department head who looked the other way during this disaster is the same individual who stripped a local couple of their franchise to have foster children and removed the children in their care because that couple were UKIP supporters.

    You cannot reduce the influence and discretion of social workers too much.

  • I think the brave, honorable Sikhs stood by the English during the 1857 Sepoy Mutiny when the East India Company’s mercenary Hindu (new cartridges oiled with beef fat) and Muslim (greased with pork fat),savages based on a butcher’s list of excuses (same same as al Qaeda and ISIS fling about) similarly exhibited their courage toward English women and children.

    Some contemporary Hindu Indians try to deny any good work the Brits may have accomplished, e.g., suppressing thousands of Ma Cali cult murderers and keeping at bay savage Pathans and bestial Russians.

    “Wha’ saw the 42nd . . . “

  • T Shaw

    You are right.

    During the Mutiny, the Sikhs of the garrison at Lucknow remained faithful and the city was relieved by the 93rd Highlanders and the 4th Punjab Infantry. Hope Grant’s cavalry division also included the 2nd and 5th Punjab cavalry and Wale’s Sikh Horse and Campbell’s brigade included the 1st Sikh cavalry, all Sikh regiments.

    It was at this time that the Punjab infantry adopted the pibroch of the Highlanders and their regimental lament is still the heart-rendingly beautiful “flowers of the Forest.”

  • Violating the sexual integrity of innocent minor children calls to heaven for rectitude. When Allah learns what crimes his followers are committing, Allah will reject them and their deeds.
    Religion is acknowledging the truth and goodness Who is God; loving God and our neighbor as ourselves. Calling our neighbor “infidel” and claiming to know how he loves and thinks, claiming to live his life in his body for him and usurping power of attorney from him is not the way of religion or of Allah.
    Peace at any price is a fancy way of saying cowardice. Throwing our innocent children to Molloch has no decent word to express the supreme idiocy of allowing crime to save oneself. This is nothing but stupidity. Britain has lost its mind and is no long Great.
    n a couple of months this will get blamed on the Catholic Church just like the burning of Rome by Nero and the 800 bodies who never were.
    The American Catholic goes a long way to informing the people of the truth of the matter. Viva Freedom of the press.

  • I suppose these misguided misfits would say regarding Ghanimah and FMG, “It is our custom”. To which the proper reply would be that of the Nineteenth Century British Officer regarding the practice in India of Suttee. To wit, if you erect a pyre to burn a man’s widow at his funeral, I will erect a gallows and hang you. For that is our custom.

  • William P. Walsh: “I suppose these misguided misfits would say regarding Ghanimah and FMG, “It is our custom”. To which the proper reply would be that of the Nineteenth Century British Officer regarding the practice in India of Suttee. To wit, if you erect a pyre to burn a man’s widow at his funeral, I will erect a gallows and hang you. For that is our custom.”
    bears repeating

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Live Not By Lies

Thursday, August 7, AD 2014

 Live Not By Lies

Alexander  Solzhenitsyn

One of the more distressing aspects of the contemporary world is just how frequently people are asked to swallow the most total malarkey.  Case in point, current Catholic policy in regard to Islam.  This policy, to dignify ahistoric fervent wishful hoping, is best exemplified by Pope Francis in this passage from Evangelii Gaudium:

253. In order to sustain dialogue with Islam, suitable training is essential for all involved, not only so that they can be solidly and joyfully grounded in their own identity, but so that they can also acknowledge the values of others, appreciate the concerns underlying their demands and shed light on shared beliefs. We Christians should embrace with affection and respect Muslim immigrants to our countries in the same way that we hope and ask to be received and respected in countries of Islamic tradition. I ask and I humbly entreat those countries to grant Christians freedom to worship and to practice their faith, in light of the freedom which followers of Islam enjoy in Western countries! Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.

Andrew Bieszad, at One Peter 5, has a brilliant piece in which he explains how this policy is directly the reverse of the position of the Church until the day before yesterday in historical terms:

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49 Responses to Live Not By Lies

  • I’m at odds with modern police theory. If stones are thrown, the stoners should be shot dead because stones can cause comas and blindness. Shoot them and see how many stoning incidents follow. When God through Peter, killed Ananias and Saphirra for lying to the Holy Spirit, the passage in Acts 5 says this in verse 11: ” And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.”
    Death deters…that’s why Al Qaeda leader Zawahiri doesn’t list his address in Pakistan after the Bin Laden hit by the Seals. Truthfully US police would not shoot stone throwers either in my area but they would put them in prisons with the Hoover Street Crips and that is why even Pablo Escobar feared US prisons. Our prisons do not deter nearly as much as our inmates deter.

  • I suggest there is a very obvious distinction to be drawn between statements made by the Magisterium on matters of faith and morals and on statements she makes about matters of fact.

    As Pascal says in the 17th Provincial Letter to Père Annat S.J., “It is matter of thankfulness to God, then, father, that there is in reality no heresy in the Church. The question relates entirely to a point of fact, of which no heresy can be made; for the Church, with divine authority, decides the points of faith, and cuts off from her body all who refuse to receive them. But she does not act in the same manner in regard to matters of fact. And the reason is that our salvation is attached to the faith which has been revealed to us, and which is preserved in the Church by tradition, but that it has no dependence on facts which have not been revealed by God. Thus we are bound to believe that the commandments of God are not impracticable; but we are under no obligation to know what Jansenius has said upon that subject. In the determination of points of faith, God guides the Church by the aid of His unerring Spirit; whereas in matters of fact He leaves her to the direction of reason and the senses, which are the natural judges of such matters. None but God was able to instruct the Church in the faith; but to learn whether this or that proposition is contained in Jansenius, all we require to do is to read his book. And from hence it follows that, while it is heresy to resist the decisions of the faith, because this amounts to an opposing of our own spirit to the Spirit of God, it is no heresy, though it may be an act of presumption, to disbelieve certain particular facts, because this is no more than opposing reason – it may be enlightened reason – to an authority which is great indeed, but in this matter not infallible.”

  • The global tragedy unfolds.


    The Truth shall make you free.


    Go forth and make disciples of all nations.


    You will not hear on MSNBC nor read in the NY Times that the Spanish Inquisition killed far fewer people in 150 years than the world-wide jihad in an average year.


    BB: Agreed. One marvels at the recent (March 1995) renovation that near-totally bans capital punishment.


    “. . . authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.” ???????


    Islam may be the only religion that does not teach the Golden Rule (Qur’an 48:29). It teaches violence and hatred against non-Muslims, specifically Jews and Christians (50:5).

    Qur’an 4:46, says Allah has cursed the Jews for their disbelief.


    Twenty-six Qur’an chapters cover jihad. All able-bodied believers must join the fight (Surah 2:216). The Quran orders Muslims to “instill terror into the hearts of the unbeliever” and to “smite above their necks” (8:12).

    The test of faith is Allah is not found in good works, but in martyrdom while trying to murder unbelievers (47:4). Murdering unbelievers is the only sure way to salvation in Islam (4:47; 9:111).

    Murdering unbelievers is the means of obtaining forgiveness of sins for the mohammedan (4:96).

    The reward for murdering unbelievers is sexual delight with virgins and other carnal joys (38:51; 55:56; 55:76; 56:22). St. Alphonsus declared: “The Mohammedan Paradise is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.”


    Mohammedans are required to give aid and advance the murderers (8:74).
    Mohammedanism requires global conquest and domination (9:29).


    The Koran is opposed to nearly all the fundamental Christian dogmas.


    From a Wall Street Journal editor letter: “I say to the Western scholars: Do not interpret the Quran for Muslims. We Muslims are capable of interpreting the Quran for ourselves. No other people have shown the level of hostility to another faith as Westerners have shown to Muhammad, the Quran and Islam. It continues to this day. Islam doesn’t need reformation; the Western mind needs reformation about Muhammad, the Quran and Islam.

    “It will be better for both of us.”


    Tahir A. Qureshi; Silver Spring, Md.


    The other day, they murdered a two-star general. Obama: crickets.


    Sound advice (it’s why we read the classics) from Herodotus Book IX, regarding the Phocians serving with the Persians at Platea: “Seeing what was coming, their commander Harmocydes urged them to sell their lives dearly. ‘Fellow countrymen,’ he cried, ‘you cannot fail to see that these fellows have deliberately planned to murder us […] Come then; show what you are made of, everyone of you. It is better to die defending ourselves than just to give up and be butchered – that disgrace, at least, we can avoid. Let us show them that the men they have plotted to murder are Greeks – and they themselves mere foreign trash.’”

  • I guess the Muslims did not read Pope Francis’ Evangellii Gaudium.
    Thank you T. Shaw. Your reading of the Koran is appreciated and needed.
    Thank you Donald McClarey for the video.

  • The video is disgusting and reprehensible. No one will argue that. And there are no ‘buts’ to it either.

    The problem lies in the Quran itself which has contradictory statements or teachings. There are indeed ‘peaceful’ statement and teachings, especially concerning ‘the Peoples of the Book’ [Jews and Christians] alongside hate-filled and violence prone statements and teachings. With no ‘magisterium’ to authoritatively interpret these teachings we have Muslims gravitating toward one side or the other. What we have in Islam is ‘everyone’ interpreting the Quran as he/she sees fit. That of course is ‘fundamentalism’

    I believe Pope Francis, among others, is emphasizing ‘the peaceful element’. However it seems that those who gravitate toward the hostile and violent are in the ascendancy within the Muslim world at this time. Pope Benedict [intentionally?] exposed this violent side of Islam, as well as its lack of the logos, reason, rationality, in his famous Regensburg address. In a very real sense, both popes are right.

    In the midst of all the horrendous news about fundamentalist Islam we should not forget that the Kingdom of Jordan welcomes Christians (both native to Jordan and from other Middle Eastern countries] We have a Catholic University now in Amman. Bahrain, on the Persian Gulf has welcomed Catholics building a new cathedral, the only Catholic church on the Arabian peninsular

    Even if all Muslims were to turn ‘irrational and violent’, we, the People of the Logos become flesh, cannot and will not. That is what the Catholic Church is saying, and what Pope Benedict and Pope Francis are saying. Here, “the Sunday People”will be ready to enter into dialogue [note the root word: ‘logos’ in there] concerning common concerns which we have as human beings and yes, believing in the One God, the Creator [that much we can say: St John Damascene, and Thomas Aquinas back this up-contrary to the opinion given in the original article]. This is all part of pre-evangelization; we know it is not evangelization. [No one can be evangelized unless they have been ‘prepared’ for evangelization]
    This is what the Lord is calling us to be and to do.

  • for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.

    Robert Spencer has been slicing this thesis to pieces in public fora for about 11 years now. The thing is, muslim populations and muslim societies can and do craft a modus vivendi with competing populations, arrangements which have in the past had some durability. We need to explore why this has been breaking down and how we might craft a new armistice. The number of authorities who wish to deny that the black letters can be fodder for revanchist politics (or wish to change the subject to Israel’s supposed ‘crimes’) just amazes.

  • Botolph,
    Google ” abrogation Koran “. Violent Muslims see the early peaceful sayings of the Koran as nullified by the chronologically later violent sayings of chapter nine of the Koran. Non violent Muslims see abrogation as having to do with the Koran abrogating the Bible etc. An abrogation verse is e.g. (2:106) “Any message which We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or similar one.87 Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything? “. Jihadists take that to mean violent chapter nine voids earlier peaceful verses within the Koran. Non violent Muslims take that verse to mean the Koran voids aspects of the Bible etc.
    So whereas the New Testament abrogates much of Old Testament violence; it is the reverse for people like
    ISIS who see their new covenant so to speak as abrogating peaceful passages that came earlier. Elijah killed about 552 idolaters with God’s help…102 by lightning…while Christ rebuked the disciples in Luke 9’s ending story for wanting to bring down lightning on the Samaritan town who refused Christ because His face was set for Jerusalem not Mt. Gerizim.

  • Instapundit: “I CALLED THIS OBAMA’S RWANDA, BUT ACTUALLY SYRIA IS OBAMA’S RWANDA. SO I GUESS THIS IS OBAMA’S SECOND RWANDA? The Islamic State’s bloody campaign to exterminate minorities: ‘Even Genghis Khan didn’t do this.’ ‘We are being exterminated! An entire religion is being exterminated from the face of the Earth. In the name of humanity, save us!’”

    This is rational. It’s institutionalized in the Q’ran. Convert or die. Or, pay a high tax and be uterly marginalized – the slower death of the culture/religion. Then, they wipe (blow up churches and staues) from the face of the earth all traces of the murdered religion and culture.

  • Bill Bannon,

    I agree that the violent Muslims interpret the Quran in this manner. And there is no doubt in my mind that they are in the ascendancy within the Islamic world.

    The key is the Islam (in total) does not accept ‘logos’, reason and the givenness of creation. God is not Logos for them as He is in Judaism (Torah) and Christianity [Logos become flesh]
    We Christians would state categorically that not only is God Logos but that God is love-not simply loving etc (which Israel believes) but love: Trinity of Persons: Lover [Father], Beloved {Son] and Love [Holy Spirit]

    Further, as your post states, there is no authoritative ‘magisterium’ which can interpret the Quran authoritatively nor with whom we can carry on substantial dialogue. Relating with Islam is, by analogy, like relating to the 30,000 some Protestant denominations. However, dialogue (logos) and relate [agape] we must if we are really children of the God Who is Logos and Agape-love, missionary disciples of the Logos become flesh. That being said calling a spade a spade, dialoguing in truth, demands we call out the violence against fellow Christians and demanding the religious respect and freedom we give to Muslims in lands in which we are more populous.

    What we see with Islam is actually the Church’s mission to all the world religions-dialoguing, ‘citiquing’ and ‘purifying’ them by means of the Logos and Agape. In this sense we begin to set up the conditions for true evangelization.

  • Botolph,
    The leaders of ISIS know the Bible’s message about Christ and reject it. They are not analogous to Mayans in the 16th century. God is Love but He brought about the death of 1.1 million people in Jerusalem in 70 AD ( Josephus) by using the Romans as His axe. It wasn’t karma. Christ warned Jerusalem it would happen even to the infants within them…Lk.19:44 ” They will smash you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave one stone upon another within you because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.” Just as David’s baby was killed for David’s sin by God (but I’ll bet is in Heaven)…infants were killed in 70 AD perhaps in accordance with Exodus 20:5 wherein God says He punishes down to the third and fourth generation ( physically…not spiritually..see Ezekiel)…those who hate Him.
    But being Love, He gave them almost 40 years to repent and escape…directions for which He gives in Luke 21:20-24. Had any Jew believed His word on the Jerusalem doom and how to escape, that Jew would have been saved by Christ’s word on the matter. They had 40 years to think and discuss with their young.
    In short God is Love but not all His actions or ours will be tender.

  • Bill Bannon,

    We are not as dividend as you might initially think. I have long believed that we have arrived at a moment in time in which Islam is being judged, as Jerusalem indeed was in 70 and ultimately in 135 AD. I believe that the rise in violence does not manifest an increase of faith, but a deep anxiety, fear and even nihilism in the face of reality. Just how realistic is it to “bomb” or force the whole world back to the seventh century.

    People fail to realize that the Jews rose up in murderous rage in three distinct wars between 66 and 135 AD not simply against the Roman occupation of Judea but against their Gentile neighbors in Egypt, Libya and Asia Minor (Turkey). Actually hundreds of thousand Gentiles died before Rome decimated the Jewish population of the eastern Mediterranean as well as expel all Jews from their ancient homeland, rebuild a Gentile/pagan city on the few ruins of Jerusalem, and renamed Judea as Palestina, named for their ancient enemies, the Philistines.

    I believe Islam is (relatively speaking) about to collapse with the majority turning to either disbelief or a sort of ” rabbinic style” Jewish like religion, open to the proclamation of the Gospel. Time will tell, of corse but the Lord Jesus is the Lord of history. Jesus is Lord!

  • The folks who are so naïve about the true nature of Islam should remember this saying: “watch what they do, not what they say.”

  • Botolph wrote, “I believe Islam is (relatively speaking) about to collapse with the majority turning to either disbelief or a sort of ” rabbinic style” Jewish like religion, open to the proclamation of the Gospel. Time will tell, of corse (sic) but the Lord Jesus is the Lord of history. Jesus is Lord!”

    Aside from the Hope for the crown of martyrdom, not sure that that will ease the anxieties of thousands of Iraqi/Syrian Christians presently being liquiditated.

  • “watch what they do, not what they say.”

    True, but what they do is somewhat variable over time and place. Take Alistair Horne’s Savage War of Peace about Algerian politics from 1948 to 1962 (with prefaces and addenda). The Association of Ulema was mentioned only in passing. It was the least consequential political force in Algeria at the time. Political revanchism in the Arab world and adjacent areas (in countries with parliamentary politics and without) tended to be praetorianist or secular-fascist. The most ‘Islamic’ government therein was Saudi Arabia’s, which has long been a status quo power making practical arrangements with external parties. (It still is).

    As for your trouble in Europe, it may be that Muslims and others are, in some way, tragically incompatible within the boundaries of one country. However, other countries have managed passably with muslim minorities of a dimension you see in Europe. What gives? Native fertility deficits, ruined labor markets, bad policies in the realm of common provision, institutionalized poltroonery (see the police in France), bad immigration screens, and the dysfunctional dynamic between elites and the vernacular society with the former pushing multi-culturalism in its ongoing campaign to rub the masses’ noses in it.

  • Charles Martel, Pelayo, King Alfonso the Avenger, Queen Isabel, Don Juan of Austria, King John Sobieski – they knew how to deal with Islam – fight it up to your last breath. Preferably, beat the $#?& out of them.

    Dialouge with Muslims is impossible because Muslims are heretics stuck in the seventh century. Their “holy book”, written after the death of the pederast Mohammed, is a bunch of warlike, hate-filled contradictory nonsense.

    “Veni, vidi, Deus vincit.”

  • Hey, want to watch a great movie about Christians triumphing over Muslims? Buy or rent ” Day Of The Siege”. It’s about the victory of King John Sobieski over the Ottoman Army at the gates of Vienna. It’s the best Christians vs Muslims movie since “El Cid”! I give it five stars!

  • Over the centuries Islam has been the greatest protagonist the Catholic Church has ever faced. Throughout history, when the forces of Islam have perceived a weak Christendom, they have attacked.

    This time round, Islam has been welcomed into much of the Western secularised world that was previously Christendom, but is now agnostic to a large extent, and Islam considers them weak and corrupt – not an unreasonable view. Muslims have infiltrated societies to the extent that when their population reaches a tipping point – around 5% – they begin agitating for Sharia and calling for jihad. This is obvious in many European cities, and is now happening is Sydney , Australia.

    The time is fast approaching – indeed has arrived in places like Iraq and parts of Europe – where Islam has to be met with a defensive force, as the Catholic Church has done in the past, and be defeated. Otherwise they will continue to radicalise moderate Muslims – who will not go against their own beliefs – and the mayhem and murder will continue until they totally dominate.

  • Most Muslims hear their Koran in Arabic, a language they hardly understand. It is usually the case that the (perceived or alledged) musicality of the verses drown out whatever the evil that is being said. This is similar to what the rappers do when they brag about killing cops and raping hos. In any society there seems to be a pathological element, hovering around ten percent, that takes pleasure in cruelty, sadism and the humiliation of others. For the well being of others, these elements have to be isolated and on occasions killed. The Muslims as a people are no more inclined to violence and sadism than others, but since their Koran endorses violence in pursuit of religious goals, they are usually helpless in the face of their sadists. The solution it seems to me is never to endorse the Islamic faith as an equal to other religions and never concede any rhetorical points whatsoever. The smarter Muslims will come around, the stupid Muslims are just village idiots and are usually harmless. The pathological elements can then be contained.

  • Pleased to hear on tonight’s news that O’Bumbler is going to send elements of the USAF to sort out ISIS.
    At last, he’s grown some cojones – albeit very small – and decided, despite his support for Muslims and those attacking the democratic governmetns of the area, to do something about the slaughter of Christains and Shia muslims, even though its some months since Maliki pleaded for help against ISIS.

  • Don the Kiwi . My thought exactly. Only you said it much better than I would have

  • Don the Kiwi I was responding to what you said yesterday. Especially this:
    The time is fast approaching – indeed has arrived in places like Iraq and parts of Europe – where Islam has to be met with a defensive force, as the Catholic Church has done in the past, and be defeated. Otherwise they will continue to radicalise moderate Muslims – who will not go against their own beliefs – and the mayhem and murder will continue until they totally dominate

    If God is willing Allies will band together and fight as they have in the past. .. At Lepanto and in the wars of the 20th century

  • Anzlyne.

    In union with allies and Holy Rosary.

    T. Shaw. I thank you as well for your Koran quotation’s. This is a wake-up call, again, and Dearborn Michigan is one of many neighborhoods bringing the best Islam has to offer..cough cough.

  • ” … That being said calling a spade a spade, dialoguing in truth, demands we call out the violence against fellow Christians and demanding the religious respect and freedom we give to Muslims in lands in which we are more populous. … ”

    Who, what (such as an organization of Bishops or Cardinals), and/or where is the unified “we” and when will the call out happen?

  • It has already taken place, many times. One thing I would point out is that the pope and bishops speak with a tone unlike the direct and sometimes confrontational manner that we see, for example in St Blogs. To be honest, I hope people don’t speak in the ‘real world’ as many do in the cyber world

    I myself have heard Poope Francis in very specific circumstances and times calling for respect for all people and calling for religious freedom. His most recent pleas for the Christians of the Middle East, especially Iraq is finally getting response in the media, at the UN and from the international community

  • “Pleased to hear on tonight’s news that O’Bumbler is going to send elements of the USAF to sort out ISIS. At last, he’s grown some cojones – albeit very small – and decided, despite his support for Muslims and those attacking the democratic governmetns of the area, to do something about the slaughter of Christains and Shia muslims, even though its some months since Maliki pleaded for help against ISIS.”

    I called my US Congressmen’s office and told them in great detail about the first hand, up to the hour reports coming out of Franklin Graham’s international ministry, Samaritan’s Purse, and from Glenn Beck’s ministry in the starving, camps of the Christian mothers and children who have fled from ISIS -reports of systematic movements across the country by ISIS toward the camps along with systematic decapitation along the way by the terrorists with no where left for their victims to flee. I described the picture that ISIS took and released, of themselves standing proudly with their militarized weapons, over rows of perfectly aligned dead young men (ISIS exterminated like rats) face down in the dirt–the lines went on so far in both directions that the ends of the rows of the murdered could not be seen in the picture. I let my Congressmen’s staff know that since Osama was doing nothing that I wanted the US Congress to raise Hell until this genocide was ended. Cruz missiles, bombs, and Hell fire missiles from a Predator drone would take care of those terrorists without putting one foot on the ground.

    This afternoon, I turned on Fox News on satellite in my car and heard that the US bombing of those viscious beyond description devils had begun. It should have started weeks ago IMHO.

    This evening

  • Has the pope said a word about the stacks of dead, mutilated, murdered bodies of Christians–or like Osama has he remained relatively silent?

  • Barbara,
    I think Francis is even more pacifist than the later life period of both his predecessors…here he is:
    “Violence will not defeat violence. Violence is defeated by peace! Let us pray in silence, asking for peace; everyone, in silence … Mary, Queen of Peace, pray for us!” 7/20 angelus address
    Bizarre…Violence alone stopped Hitler and Japan…peace emboldened them. Francis has never been intimate with the figure of the bully even if he has seen them from a distance.
    St. John Paul forgot WWII also here:
    ” To obtain the good of peace there must be a clear and conscious acknowledgment that violence is an unacceptable evil and that it never solves problems. Violence is a lie. It goes against the truth of our faith, the truth of our humanity, the truth about Jesus. Violence destroys what it claims to defend; the dignity, the life, the freedom of human beings. What is needed is a great effort to form consciences and to educate the younger generation to goodness, to nonviolence, to love.
    -Pope John Paul II- Message for World Day of Peace 2005

    ” given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a just war.” – Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) just before the 2003 US invasion of Iraq.

    Madness….all three. I have a b&e criminal in my city who could shoot me some night as he once hinted because I beat him in a fight after he broke in one day. If he calls to me and threatens us from outside our locked bedroom door some night, I’ll shoot him right through the door with – tactical shotgun. Case closed. These Popes are over cultured. In Plato’s Republic Book III, he states that too much sports makes men brutal and too much culture makes them feminized. Judith in Scripture was not feminized when the context called for violence.

  • Pope Francis is from a part of the world that has had no contact with violent Islam. He has no experience with it and it shows.

    One can point out the conditions under which Karol Wojytla lived as a young man and this, along with Vatican II, shaped his worldview. He, too was from the Church of Nice. I think 9/11 woke him up – too late in my opinion.

    The Vatican has tried to be amenable to the Muslim world, before WWII or WWI. This is in part due to the small Catholic populations in the Middle East. Certain radtrads blame Israel. The Holy See has not always had a good relationship with Israel for many reasons.

    The West has abandoned its Christian culture and in its place has embraced pleasure, sex, leisure, sodomy, porn, multiculturalism and any other sort of stupid brain cell killing time wasting activity. We have learned nothing from 9/11.

    The great heresies have, over the years, faded away – Arianism, Nestorianism, iconoclasm. Even Protestantism, in its “mainline” forms, is disappearing. Islam, the barbaric seventh century heresy remains, funded by oil wealth. Without the oil wealth Islam would be nothing. Islam was allies with Germany in both world wars.
    Bishop Sheen said there would not be peace in the world until the Muslims convert. This flies in the face of that stupid Vatican II statement about Islam.

  • These Popes are over cultured. In Plato’s Republic Book III, he states that too much sports makes men brutal and too much culture makes them feminized.

    St. John Paul was quite the athlete and both John Paul and Benedict had survived the 2d World War. Benedict had some military service. Francis supposedly once had a job as a bar bouncer and has spent much of his life in Buenos Aires, a locus in which daily life requires … coping skills. They may have been overly feminized by their old age but I doubt they started out that way.

    The real problem is not their person but their thinking. The deficiencies of John Paul were on display in 1991 when he refused to countenance the use of force when what was arguably one of the half-dozen or so ghastliest regimes on Earth (and the only one among them sitting atop a natural resources bonanza) conquered a harmless oil principality, generated a six-figure caravan of refugees, trashed the place, and treated everyone therein with the utmost brutality. (Scott Richert has since been calling us all ‘cafeteria Catholics’ for not falling in line behind the inanities of the Vatican diplomatic corps).

  • Art Deco,
    Yes 1991 was absolutely bizarre.
    Thousands of nine year old girls survived WWII. Two army brothers in WWII…one fighting in the trenches…the other cooking sos at an army base far from the enemy. “Survive” is mainly about the former.
    I stated …”later life period of both his predecessors”. In late life, Benedict commissioned his own personal fragrance….and had a 28,000 book collection and loved classical music. It’s the aggregate…especially the fragrance.

  • Well, from what news I saw, Obama is using the 500 lb bombs to protect a group of people who practice a form of Zooasterism who are trapped on a mountain top and who are surrounded by ISIS. No direct help for the Christians.

  • It’s the aggregate…especially the fragrance.

    It sounds like a prank story. That aside, I gather (from the disaffected spouses of Europeans billeted in America) that it’s modal across the pond to use cologne instead of deodorant, at least for the older generation. One of my office mates had a temp just off the boat from Nepal who never seemed to bathe. Nothing else offensive about him, clean clothes, clean white teeth, just the acrid odor of sweat; later I had one from India. He bathed; he just didn’t brush his teeth all that often. People are funny about hygiene.

  • An Indian paper has far more detail than Western news sources because they have people in those areas of Iraq under seige….see especially the last ten paragraphs:

  • Beheading of Christian children–heads placed on sticks in parks for display.

    Christian men who pay the fine for being a Christian have their daughters & wives taken from them for use as sex slaves.

    (see video at the link below)

  • Barbara,
    ISIS should be not an Iraq issue but a World Court/ UN issue for blatant war crimes in three countries so far and all nations should be gathering to send forces to shoot or capture everyone of them. This is not just the US responsibility. ISIS has thousands of passports and all Western nations and even China for its Moslem trouble in the north west are named by them and susceptible to e.g. suicide bombing by them….and India which was mentioned by them as an oppressor of Islam. The world should be gathering and should DESIRE to gather at the UN with military intent based on unrelenting war crimes….including India and China.

  • Can we get out in the streets and pray
    public prayer lots and lots of out spoken prayer

    when we pray by ourselves it is like lighting a candle when we pray en masse it is a bonfire (john vianny said something like that)

  • Flooding the streets of cities and capitals with praying people putting pressure on governments to take defensive action for these children and all people against this Evil

  • Anzlyne,
    I suggest the long run. There are very young and teen captive girls of these men many of whom no one in your lifetime is going to rescue. Adopt them forever in your prayers. One of their faces will haunt me for a long time…looked like 7 years old…balling her eyes out. Pray for them til death that they find Christ by seeing his opposite in these men and pray that they plan their escape with much forethought. And if you pray unceasingly like Elijah, your adopted girls will perceive Christ and will escape one day…for sure. You can take that to the bank.
    Opium brides are common in Afghanistan. Gangs loan farmers seed money…farmers can’t pay in product and the gangs take their very young daughters as payment. Then the farmers go on opium. A young, hard luck life in the US is a mansion compared with these female victims of Islam in those countries. Think long run. Adopt them in your prayers…til death. Christ said it’ll get worse before it gets better…” wars and rumors of war….these things are but the beginning of sorrows.” Mt.24:6–

  • This article at the following link has a video of the representative of the minority groups, currently being slaughtered by ISIS, Pleading with her government to stop the genocide. It appears she is completely overwhelmed by emotions and falls to the floor at the end. I have no interest in the article itself– it is the video that I wanted to add to the discussion at hand. She lists all of the minority groups in her speech.

  • Barbara,
    That clip was on tv and may well have been part of Obama moving toward airstrikes along with other input….things from intelligence people we’d rather not see. These people are more evil than the majority of criminals.

  • BB wrote: “ISIS should be not an Iraq issue but a World Court/ UN issue for blatant war crimes in three countries so far and all nations should be gathering to send forces to shoot or capture everyone of them. This is not just the US responsibility. ISIS has thousands of passports and all Western nations and even China for its Moslem trouble in the north west are named by them and susceptible to e.g. suicide bombing by them….and India which was mentioned by them as an oppressor of Islam. The world should be gathering and should DESIRE to gather at the UN with military intent based on unrelenting war crimes….including India and China.”

    Bill, I agree in theory with what you have stated. In reality if we wait for those other nations to act or the UN to act–all of us will be dead.

    The simple truth is that like most politicians/previous presidential admins, the Osama Admin only acts on behalf of mInority populations when it is to his benefit politically.

  • The second video in this article at the link below is of the Orthodox archbisop of Mosul telling how the destruction of all Christianity/Christan sects took place.

  • It appears that our current American president released from prison the madman who is now leading ISIS–as one of his first acts as President.

  • Barbara,
    Read your last link to the bottom. They conclude that the charge against Obama on this is false. Baghdadi was most probably released in 2004 according to US records not 2009 and only one prison worker “thinks” he saw Baghdadi in 2009 but the records show him being released in 2004. The real 2009 release was not a release anyway but a transfer to Iraq custody as per an agreement signed before Obama entered office. Obama is way late in this ISIS crisis but he can’t be blamed for releasing Bahgdadi whichever date is correct because if 2004 then that preceded Obama or if 2009, it was a mandated in writing transfer to Iraq who released him.

  • Bill, thank u for pointing out what the conclusion of the link is. That is a conclusion by a rabidly pro-Obama website–that is not my conclusion. I do not agree that turning this devil loose to the Iraqis was not an actual release–it was. Obama has just recently recently released some more of these devils from US custody–into the oversight of Yemen–quite the joke. His admin also claims that those more recent transfers were not actually releases of murderers who plan to kill us all. He also failed to give congress the required notice in law before the releases. I remember exactly when this devil leading ISIS we are discussing now was released and his promise to see us in New York. Obama upholding any agreement of a former admin is a joke as well–he is constantly issuing decrees as if he is a monarch. Our current president abides by only the agreements and rules he wishes when he wishes.

    However, please let me thank you for pointing out the discrepancy in the article itself. I do not agree that Obama is not responsible for his release despite the apologist argument.

  • In 2003, there were about 1.5 million Christians in Iraq; today they are estimated to be less than 200,000 in number. And their numbers continue to dwindle every day.

    The Islamic extremists, presently in charge of large parts of the country, are bent on wiping out 1900 year old history of Christianity in Iraq, as a whole, and the city of Mosul in particular.

    let us recall what happened in March 2000, when the then pope – John Paul II – went to the state of Jordan and said this:

    “May Saint John Baptist protect Islam”

    Well the Vatican in the last few decades have tried to appease Islam but to no avail. Is it not time to change the tune?

  • Cpola said: “In 2003, there were about 1.5 million Christians in Iraq; today they are estimated to be less than 200,000 in number. And their numbers continue to dwindle every day.”

    Why did they start decreasing in 2003?

  • “In 2003, there were about 1.5 million Christians in Iraq; today they are estimated to be less than 200,000 in number. And their numbers continue to dwindle every day.”
    More likely fewer than 400,000 at one time.

PopeWatch: Islam

Friday, January 3, AD 2014



In all the furor over the economic passages of Evangelii Gaudium, other sections of that lengthy document have received short shrift.  Sandro Magister at his blog Chiesa has the comments of Father Samir Khalil Samir, an Egyptian Jesuit, on these passages:

1. Muslims “together with us adore the One, merciful God” (No. 252)

I would advise caution here. It is true Muslims worship one and merciful God. However, this sentence suggests that the two conceptions of God are equal. Yet in Christianity God is the Trinity in its essence, plurality united by love: He is a bit more than just clemency and mercy. We have two quite different conceptions of the Divine One. Muslims characterize God as inaccessible. The Christian vision of the Oneness of the Trinity emphasizes that God is Love which is communicated: Father-Son-Spirit, or Lover-Beloved-Love, as St. Augustine suggested.

Moreover, what does the mercy of the God of Islam mean? He has mercy for whom he wants and not on those whom displease him. “Allah might admit to His mercy whom He willed” (Koran 48:25). These expressions are, almost literally, in the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19). But never arrive at saying that “God is love” (1 John 4:16), like St John.

Mercy in the case of Islam is that of the rich man who stoops over the poor and gives him something. But the Christian God is the one who lowers Himself to the level of the poor man in order to raise him up; He does not show his wealth to be respected (or feared) by the poor: he gives Himself in order the poor should live.

2. “The sacred writings of Islam have retained some Christian teachings” (No. 252)

This is true in a sense, but it is somewhat ambiguous. It is true that Muslims retain words or facts from the canonical gospels, such as the story of the Annunciation which is found almost literally in chapters 3 (The Family of Imr?n) and 19 (Mariam).

But more frequently the Koran is inspired by the pious tales of the apocryphal Gospels, and do not draw from them the theological sense they contain, and do not give these facts or words the meaning that they actually have, not out of malice, but because they do not contain the overall vision of the Christian message.

3. The figure of Christ in the Koran and the Gospel (No. 252)

The Koran refers to “Jesus and Mary [who] are the object of profound veneration”. To tell the truth, Jesus is not an object of veneration in the Muslim tradition. Instead, Mary is venerated, especially by Muslim women, who willingly go to the places of pilgrimage.

The lack of veneration for Jesus Christ is probably explained by the fact that, in the Koran, Jesus is a great prophet, famous for his miracles on behalf of a poor and sick humanity, but he is not the equal of Muhammad. Only mystics have a certain devotion to him, as the sol-called “Spirit of God”.

In fact, all that is said of Jesus in the Koran is the exact opposite of Christian teachings. He is not the Son of God, but a prophet and that’s it. He is not even the last of the prophets, because instead the “seal of the prophets” is Muhammad (Koran 33:40). Christian revelation is only seen as a step towards the ultimate revelation brought by Muhammad, i.e. Islam.

4. The Koran is opposed to all the fundamental Christian dogmas

The figure of Christ as the second person of the Trinity is condemned. In the Koran it says explicitly to Christians: ” O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not ‘Three’ – Cease! (it is) better for you! – Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that “(Koran 4:171). These verses against the Trinity are very clear and need no interpretation.

The Koran denies the divinity of Christ: “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?’” (Koran 5:116). And Jesus denies it!

Finally, the Koran negates Redemption. It even says that Jesus Christ did not die on the Cross, but it was a look-alike: “And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them” (Koran 4:157). In this way God saved Jesus from the wickedness of the Jews. But then Christ did not save the world!

In short, the Koran and Muslims deny the essential dogmas of Christianity: the Trinity, the Incarnation and Redemption. It should be added that this is their most absolute right! But you can not then say that “The sacred writings of Islam retain part of Christian teachings”. You simply must speak of the “Jesus of the Koran” which has nothing to do with the Jesus of the Gospels.

The Koran mentions Jesus because it aims to complete the revelation of Christ to exalt Muhammad. Besides, seeing what Jesus and Mary do in the Koran, we notice that it is no more than apply the prayers and fasting according to the Koran. Mary is certainly the most beautiful figure among all those presented in the Koran: she is the Virgin Mother, whom no man has ever touched. But she can not be the Theotokos; instead she is a good Muslim.

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46 Responses to PopeWatch: Islam

  • Exodus 33:19, “I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please Me,” that Fr Samir refers to is the key text for the Thomist doctrine of Predilection.

    St Thomas teaches that “Since the love of God is the cause of the goodness of things, no one would be better than another, if God did not will a greater good to one than to another.” [Ia, q. 20, a. 3]

    Obviously, the person who keeps the commandments is better than the one who is able to do so, but does not. Therefore, he who keeps the commandments is more beloved and assisted by God. In short, God loves that person, to whom He grants that he keep the commandments, more than another in whom He permits sin.

    This principle of predilection presupposes, according to St. Thomas, a decree of the divine will rendering our salutary acts intrinsically efficacious [Ia, q. 19, a. 8]. For, if they were efficacious on account of our foreseen consent, of two people equally loved and helped by God, one would be better in some respect. He would be better of himself alone and not on account of divine predilection.”

    This is why St Augustine says, “God has mercy on no man in vain. He calls the man on whom He has mercy in the way He knows will suit him, so that he will not refuse the call.”

    Traditionally, the Jesuits rejected the doctrine of Predilection and followed the teaching of Molina, whilst the Dominicans and the Later Augustinians followed St Thomas

  • It is good that some one with the “credentials” of being both Egyptian and a Jesuit will point out these important distinct differences. We have been talking about these points in our study group and wondered why some well published Catholic sources seem not to recognize them. I think maybe it is just wishful thinking.
    As far as the various approaches to the understanding of mercy pointed out by MPS- yes they are there, but they are well within the walls. Whereas Father Samir is discussing beliefs that are completely outside our understanding of God, Jesus and Mary.

  • Anzlyne

    I was merely pointing out that the doctrine of Predilection is not dissimilar to “Allah might admit to His mercy whom He willed” (Koran 48:25) Both stress the absolute sovereignty of God.

    Thus, St Augustine, “Who would dare to affirm that God has no method of calling whereby even Esau might have applied his mind and yoked his will to the faith in which Jacob was justified? … Who would dare to affirm that the Omnipotent lacked a method of persuading even Esau to believe?”

  • Thanks Michael PS. Yes I got that. I wanted to support the points made by the Egyptian Jesuit Father in general and make note that he was trying to point out the gulf between Islam and Christianity, because so many people think we worship the “same god”.
    Your point is also taken and appreciated.
    I didn’t want those finer distinctions to confuse some people. Augustine and Aquinas both admit the sovereign power of God, as does Mohammed. That doesn’t blur, though, the very distinct lines between the heresy of Islam and Christianity.

    On another note, of course the ultimate fate of Esau is very important consideration for all of us who love someone whose will and intellect are not “yoked to the faith in which Jacob was justified” Another tangent would lead me to “who am I to judge?” : ( but I wanted to stick to the point of the larger paradigm of Islam which is not largely about the personal relationship or inner workings of an individual conscience or, as you know, the immanence of God in the human heart.

  • Good point concerning #1. The conceptions of the one God are different. It certainly raises a question as to whether the SAME god is being worshiped. I would argue that the same god is not being worhsiped, unless a Muslim comes to udnerstand and connect with the one true God along the way.

  • In all the furor over the economic passages of Evangelii Gaudium, other sections of that lengthy document have received short shrift.
    Glad you posted the link to Samir Khalil Samir because his analysis seems well-balanced. I have not studied Islam to any great extent, so I depend on these types of discussions to learn about it. He points out theological imprecision of Pope Francis’ words without going overboard (as I’ve seen at other blogs).
    In addition to sections 252 and 253, section 247 troubles me:
    “We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked. … As Christians, we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion; nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God.”
    If I were the type to over-react, I might think that Pope Francis believes Jews can be saved by following Mosaic Law and that we need not — indeed, we must not — evangelize to them to accept Jesus as their savior. Section 249 comes to the rescue (I think):
    “God continues to work among the people of the Old Covenant and to bring forth treasures of wisdom which flow from their encounter with his word. For this reason, the Church also is enriched when she receives the values of Judaism. While it is true that certain Christian beliefs are unacceptable to Judaism, and that the Church cannot refrain from proclaiming Jesus as Lord and Messiah, there exists as well a rich complementarity which allows us to read the texts of the Hebrew Scriptures together and to help one another to mine the riches of God’s word.”
    In the middle there he says “the Church cannot refrain from proclaiming Jesus as Lord and Messiah”, but he does not say to who. He also caveats the sentence with “certain Christian beliefs are unacceptable to Judaism”, whatever that means, so his desire for us to evangelize to Jews comes across as a bit muddled here. If you have some good analysis on this point (by which I mean serious without over-reacting), that would be helpful to me.

  • I find the lack of clarity disturbing. If Jesus is Lord and MEssiah of the world, and all people come to God by faith in the Messiah, whether Jew or Gentile, and this is good Pauline theology, then there really isn’t much sense in saying the rest. It sounds liek the Dispensationalist line that Jews can be saved on different terms because they remain in a rather separate category.

  • Excuse me for asking a very simple question here, however did Pope Francis truly state in his written document that we and Muslims worship the same God?

  • 252. Our relationship with the followers of Islam has taken on great importance, since they are now significantly present in many traditionally Christian countries, where they can freely worship and become fully a part of society. We must never forget that they “profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, who will judge humanity on the last day”.[198] The sacred writings of Islam have retained some Christian teachings; Jesus and Mary receive profound veneration and it is admirable to see how Muslims both young and old, men and women, make time for daily prayer and faithfully take part in religious services. Many of them also have a deep conviction that their life, in its entirety, is from God and for God. They also acknowledge the need to respond to God with an ethical commitment and with mercy towards those most in need.

  • ruh roh its a direct quote from Lumen Gentium 16

    (126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

  • Anzlyne

    Thank you for your citation of Lumen Gentium.

    Also, in Nostra Aetate, the Second Vatican Council, declares that Muslims “adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, (cf Pope St Gregory VII’s letter XXI to Anzir (Nacir), King of Mauritania) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God.”

    Many arguments to the contrary strike me as implicitly Marcionite, in virtually denying the identity of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  • But what about the Trinity? What about Jesus Son of God?

  • Credo in unum Deum. I believe in One God…. Whether we use Latin or English, we all begin our Creed with this confession each Lord’s Day (Sunday). I believe that it is extremely important for each of us and all of us to return to the Creed again and again, not to gain ammunition to debate those who disagree (whoever those who disagree are) but to deepen our own faith in One God in the Three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is into this Mystery we literally were baptized, immersed, and we need to learn how to swim in it-in order to be able to dialogue with fellow Christians, with the Jews, Moslems, other world religions and with secularists and atheists. Listening to Saint Thomas Aquinas and not stop with learning, believing and reciting the doctrine, but go further and deeper into the Mystery the words represent.

    To go into a full analysis is both beyond my ability and the space and time given to me right now. However, we can say this: I/we believe in One God, the Father, the Almighty, the Creator. There is a progression of faith found in Revelation (look it up in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is known as “God’s Pedagogy”. He reveals Himself fundamentally in creation as the Creator [remember the “star” of this Sunday-Epiphany]. There is a Covenant of the Gentiles based on the Covenant with Noah, maintaining God’s promise to the nations; on their part they must turn from their idolatry to the One true God and reject evil and do the good following the golden rule. Saint Paul, following Wisdom 13 , says all peoples can come to know the One true God, the Creator, to worship and to give Him thanks, and to do what they ought [Romans 1.18-23] This God is the God of creation, the Creator. He is and can be known by intellect seeking the truth. Is He not the same God Whom we worship? Yes -and yet, no-because this One God has further revealed Himself to Israel as God with us and for us, and now fully revealed Himself in Jesus Christ. Islam does not believe we worship the same God. this is why they don’t want Christians in Malaysia using the name “Allah” when they say, “God”. Is He the same God? Yes, since the One God is the Creator. However, after that, we differ. After all, He has revealed Himself to Israel (and no other nation), “salvation is from the Jews’ (John 4.22). Jesus Christ is the ultimate and full manifestation of God’s Self-revelation and His saving will. Islam is the only religion in the world which has as its doctrine, the denial of the Divinity of Christ [I am not saying Jews believe this, I am simply saying it is not a doctrine of theirs].

    Fr Samir’s article was excellent. I believe his ‘critique’ of Pope Francis’ comments are a necessary ‘corrective’ to a somewhat too positive and optimistic assessment that originated in Vatican II-specifically in response to a request of the Eastern Churches in the Middle East who felt that after our genuine and positive assessment/corrective of our vision of the Jews, something positive needed to be said about Islam. What Vatican II said was not wrong, it simply was too optimistic. Pope Francis is continuing that ‘optimism’ knowing full well that ‘the soul’ of Islam right now is at stake. This is Islam’s ‘hour of judgment’ in which they are being judged which aspect of their ambiguous religion they are going to choose: Islamicist fundamentalist fanaticism attempting to drive all Moslems and the world back to the seventh century, wars, persecutions and all, or an Islam that recognizes it needs to wrestle with its own writings, subject them to the “logos” [Logos] and enter into substantial dialogue with Judaism, the Church and the rest of the world. I simply am not as hopeful or optimistic about this outcome as Pope Francis-and neither is Fr Samir.

  • “Islam does not believe we worship the same God. this is why they don’t want Christians in Malaysia using the name “Allah” when they say, “God”.

    Honestly, I think I will take their word for it over Vatican II and Lumen Gentium (and Pope Francis). That fact that Islam has the doctrine that Jesus isn’t Divine suggests that, no, they don’t worship God, but someone else entirely, even if they don’t realize it.

    Folks, Jesus said to go out, preach the word, baptize people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I don’t think He would have gone around preaching for 3 years and ultimately dying by crucifixion so that people could come up with their own religion or follow false ideas if they were just going to reach Heaven anyways.

  • Islam is a seventh century based heresy against the Catholic Church. Islam seeks to convert or destroy by the sword.

    Charles Martel, Queein Isabel, Don Juan of Austria and King John Sobieski didn’t need a Vatican II document to tell them what they were up against.

    Peace is best achieved with Islam by defeating it.

  • DJ Hesslius,

    I assume you were speaking tongue in cheek when you said that you will take Moslems’ word on God-whether the God they worship is the same as the God Whom we worship over that of The Second Vatican Council (Lumen Gentium) and Pope Francis. If it were not tongue in cheek to say that is quite a statement for a Catholic to make would be an understatement.

    Jesus came to reveal God fully: One God in Three Divine Persons; or as Saint John in his First Letter succinctly puts it in three words: “God is love” [that is a statement about God Himself, and not ‘merely’ that He is loving etc toward us.

    Whether one celebrates Epiphany on January 6th or today, the Mystery remains the same. God fundamentally reveals Himself as One and the Creator in all of His creation. This is the fundamental revelation of God, which any and every person can and ought to be able to ‘ascertain’ by their use of their intellect (reason). We have this in our tradition from Wisdom 13 to Romans 1 all the way to Vatican I and confirmed/affirmed in Vatican II. If any person comes to know that God is one and is the Creator to Whom worship and thanks are owed (see Romans 1.18-25) that God is the One God in Whom we profess our faith. This is straight, traditional Catholic teaching.

    What I have just said, has nothing to do with the supposed revelation Moslems receive by way of Mohammed in the Quran. I do not accept the Quran as revelation or scripture, not do I (or any Catholic) accept Mohammed as a prophet, never mind ‘the prophet’. What Father Samir states about what Moslems do say about Jesus is accurate, and shows that the ‘sources’ for Mohammed were gnostic gospels, various and sundry Christian heresies denying both the Incarnation and the Paschal Mystery. Worse still is the claim that Christians worship a ‘trinity’ made up of God, Jesus and Mary!

    I am not sure who you meant when you were speaking about ‘people coming up with their own religion’. I will assume you were speaking of the followers of Mohammed. However you also mention the false ideas that everyone goes to heaven. That is obviously heresy. I also assure you that no text in Vatican II teaches that. Ralph Martin does an excellent job on exegeting the texts in question showing that that is not a teaching of VII, despite some misinterpreting it that way.

  • Penguins Fan,

    I agree that Islam is a seventh century Christian heresy. Saint John of Damascus (Damascene) stated this, living as he was in a city, Damascus, Syria, that already was conquered by Moslem forces and living only a century after Mohammed. I also am thankful for such figures as Charles Martel who led a defensive campaign against the Islamic forces pouring into what is now France from Spain. I am one, in the interest of transparency etc. who believes that the Crusades were a defensive and not an offensive campaign.

    While I am thankful for such figures, I am not at all convinced etc that ‘a call to arms’ is the best way to deal with 1 billion fellow human beings. I need to be clear here. I am speaking as a Catholic and speaking of a Catholic response, not what a country like America should or should not do. I am speaking from the Faith, the faith perspective. Jesus says, “He who lives by the sword dies by the sword”. While it is ‘common wisdom’ to ‘fight fire with fire’ when did Jesus Christ fight fire with fire? He He not our “norm”? Our ‘weapons’ are spiritual because as St Paul writes. “We do not fight against flesh and blood but against Principalities and Powers…”. Take another look at Ephesian 6, and our ‘spiritual warfare’:

    1) Prayer, especially the Rosary. I do not believe it accidental the Mary appeared at Fatima, asking Catholics to pray the rosary for the conversion of Russia-while not canonizing Putin etc, anyone notice the turnaround that country is doing? Fatima is the name of Mohammed’s daughter, the wife of Ali who is revered by the Shiites. Do we really think this was all coincidence?

    2) Offering up our Masses (no matter what language they are in) for peace in the world, and the conversion of Moslems. This is a time of judgment for Islam. Can we not assist those who are indeed more moderate and open to reason and dialogue over the Islamicist fundamentalists with our greatest weapon, the Most Holy Eucharist?

    3)Dialogue means bringing both sides to a ‘situation’ we commonly call a table, and address issues with ‘reason’ [logos: the Logos]. The more we bring Moslems to ‘reason/logos’ the more open they will be to the Divine Logos made flesh, Jesus Christ. This will not take place with Islamicists-but it can and should with the more moderate forces (they do exist-at least right now). This is what Pope Francis is actually talking about.

    4)Evangelization through witness of life. This is the toughest of them all-always has been. It means for Christians not to leave Middle Eastern countries etc so that Moslems can come in contact with them on a daily basis. This is how we ‘conquered’ the Roman Empire in roughly 300 years-no armies, physicial weapons etc. but the gospel of Christ and the “Sword of the Spirit”. Now that means, sadly some will be martyred-the ultimate witness. Have we forgotten that “the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the faith”?

    Christ is constantly saying “Do not be afraid….The Spirit of the One within you is greater than the one in the world”. We really need to take Him at His word.

  • My post seems pretty clear to me: The Muslims (if the quote accurately states what they really do believe–I’m not an expert in Islam and I pulled that quote from you) say that don’t worship the same god as do we Catholics/Christians. And I’m willing to say the Church just might be wrong on Her instance that the deity the Muslims worship is, in fact, God (the real one that we Catholics worship.)
    Do we worship a deity that condones sex slavery? Suicide bombing? Multiple wives? Female gentile mutilation. Stoning? Ethnic cleansing? In looking at the “fruits” of Islam, I have a very hard time seeing how they worship God (the real one that is.)

  • D, J. Hesslius

    It is important in speaking about any religion, even ours, to make the distinction between God and what His followers do. I would not want anyone to describe the Catholic Faith by pointing out the sins of Catholics (past or present), It also is important to recognize that there are many things that are ‘willed by God” or seem acceptable to Him in the Old Testament which I would dare say, we would not agree with or do-yet, we do worship the same God revealed in the Old Testament. We fundamentally recognize that Jesus Christ did not come to ‘destroy the Law and the Prophets’ but to fulfill them” and bring out their deeper meaning: “You have heard it said…But I say to you….”

    I am in no way offering any kind of apologia for Islam or its followers. Nor am I placing them alongside Judaism and Christianity. I do not believe they are a religion of ‘the book’ because they have not received revelation from God I am simply stating that their belief in the One God, the Creator (no matter how poorly understood, etc.), the result of the intellect’s ability to come to know the One God, the Creator, is the One God, “the Creator, the Maker of heaven and earth” in Whom we also believe.

  • I hear you DJ. They don’t want us Christians to call God Allah because they see the difference and think calling our Trinitarian God Allah is profane. I don’t know what to think of the statements of the pope and fro Lumen Gentium. Would somebody tell me if Lumen Gentium is considered infallible?

  • Botolph,

    The good people I mentioned needed to resort to arms. I am advocating no such thing at the moment. Islam is waging a stealth war against a weak and wimpy West.
    All that is needed for success in opposing Islam is for the West to grow a backbone – that and the USA being energy self sufficient.

  • Anzlyne,

    Lumen Gentium, [Light of the Nations] has as its ‘title’, the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church. At the end of the document an appendage was added to assist people in understanding both its content an level of authority. It states:
    “Taking into account conciliar custom and the pastoral aim of the present Council, this holy synod defines as binding on the Church only those matters of faith and morals which it openly declares to be such.”

    Vatican II and Lumen Gentium define no new dogma. That was not the purpose of the Council. The Council was not assembled to define some dogma against misunderstandings or vicious heresy. It was called as a “Pastoral Council”. Now some would hear that and say, “so it means nothing, or next to nothing”, but nothing could be further from the truth. The Council in general was a reorientation of the Church’s self-understanding from Tradition toward mission, the mission of word [kerygma], Liturgy [eucharistia] and service [diakonia]

    Blessed John Paul, in one of his catecheses at the Angelus said this “It is the great merit of Lumen Gentium to have forcefully reminded us that if we want to have a satisfactory understanding of the Church’s identity without neglecting the institutional aspects, it is necessary to begin with her Mystery. The Church is a mystery because she is grafted on to Christ and rooted in the Trinitiarian life. Jesus, the Word, is the Light that shines out visibly from the Church. He has brought ancient Israel’s expectations to fulfillment, inaugurating the arrival of God’s Kingdom. Thus He has gathered all the nations into a new People of God, uniting them to Himself as His Body and His Bride, in the power of the Holy Spirit. A sublime mystery, which binds the baptized together and spurs them to continual conversion, to the very heights of holiness. So this is the Church: a People journeying through history, its gaze fixed on the goal of Christ’s Second Coming.

    This conciliar vision of the Church, faithful to the Word of God, and to the most ancient tradition, was meant to give the Christian community a new pulse of vitality, a renewed spirit of communion and participation

    Pope Benedict, while still Cardinal stated in a symposium on Vatican II in 2000
    “Right now, I want to state my basic thesis: the Second Vatican Council clearly wanted to speak of the Church within the discourse on God, to subordinate the discourse on the Church to the discourse on God and to offer an ecclesiology that would be theo-logical in the true sense….As the rule of Saint Benedict states, “Let nothing be placed before the work of God [opus Dei], the Divine Office. As the second text of the Council, the Constitution on the Church should be seen as inwardly connected with the text on the Liturgy. The CHurch is guided by prayer, by the mission of glorifying God. By its nature ecclesiology is connected with the Liturgy. It is therefore logical that the third Constitution should speak of the Word of God that convokes the Church and renews her in every age. The fourth Constitution shows how the glorification of God is realized in the active life, since the light received from God is carried into the world and only in this way becomes fully the glorification of God…..”

    Anzlyne, I hope this helped. As to the actual statement concerning Islam in Lumen Gentium there are two core aspects, IMHO, to what the Council is saying. Relying on Sacred Tradition but most especially Vatican I, with its wonderful teaching on the ability of the human intellect rising to the knowledge of the truth of One God, the Creator, it is saying that we do share this: we both worship the One God, the Creator. Because of this we have a ‘relationship’ with Islam. That’s basically all it says. The rest is an attempt to place Islam in as positive light as possible-for example the statement about reverencing Jesus and Mary. In no way does the Council say that this is sufficient etc for the salvation of Moslems etc. While mentioning their claim to acknowledge the God and faith of Abraham, that is all it says: it is their claim. Of course there is that aspect of Islam that we cannot just overlook. However many peoples were descended from Abraham, such as the Midianites, or related to Abraham: the Ammonites and Moabites (through Lot and his daughters) but that basically got them nowhere. John the Baptist and Jesus Himself claim that physical descent is not enough for salvation, nor is circumcision, etc.

    Bottom line, the teaching in Lumen gentium concerning Islam is, as part of Lumen gentium authoritative but not an infallible teaching. It is attempting to show the ‘fragile’ relationship between Islam and the Church of Jesus Christ which subsists in the Catholic Church. That relationship is primarily the knowledge of and worship of the One God, the Creator
    Hope this has helped

  • Penguins Fan,

    Ahhh you are speaking about what America/the West needs to do. That backbone of which you speak is what we commonly refer to as Judaeo-Christianity. The West, as the West is built on the synthesis of Judaeo-Christianity and Graeco-Roman culture. The West cannot and does not exist without both foundations. However, the West since the late 60’s has taken up the radical Enlightenment’s mantra attempting to extirpate every last vestige of Judaeo-Christiantity from the Public Square and relegate us back into the ‘catacombs’ of ‘the private life’, reconstructing a ‘city’ without God [think of the last Democratic Convention: the shocking debate about the deletion of two words: “God” and “Jerusalem”. Although originally from different contexts, that was no accidental coincidence]. The ‘elites’ building this new city might as well give the ‘keys of the city’ to the Islamicists, because they do believe in something, the builders/the elite believe in nothing.

    Given the direction of the mainline Protestant churches and denominations, the Catholic Church and Evangelicals and orthodox and conservative Jews, are the ones maintaining this Judaeo-Christian sythesis. However, we are under tremendous pressure to ‘give in’ and ‘to bow before the golden statue’ of the hegemony of the progressive nanny state.

  • This is a fantastic discussion! I clearly see that the god of Islam is analogus to the Christian God in that Islam is monotheistic, Muslims believe their god is the creator & sustainer of all things, & they claim Abraham as their father–but it seems the relationship ends there.

    Judaism has the same analogous relationship with Christianity in that the God of Abraham is also the creator & sustainer of all things, Judaism claims a monotheistic God, & Judaism claims the God of Abraham as their God.

    Both Judaism & Islam fail to recognize Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son of God-although both religions acknowledge Jesus in another manner.

    I have recently had an IN DEPTH discussion, with someone who professes to be a Christian, who does not recognize the Trinitarian God of the Bible as being 3 Persons in One. She claims vehemently that I believe in polytheism ( which of course is preposterous!) However, my point is that Muslims may view the Christian as being polytheistic & as worshipping 3 gods instead of one. Thinking that Christians are polytheistic would result in Muslims refusing to allow a Christian to call the Islamic god “Allah.”

    Please note: my reference to Judaism is strictly a referral to Orthodox Judaism. We have a Reform Temple here in my area where you are allowed you be a member as long as you do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God & have not been baptized in a Christian church. Otherwise, you can be an Atheist or hold any other beliefs & still be accepted into their membership.

  • I think Penguin’s Fan is rather close to the truth when he says that Islam is a seventh century heresy. Of course it depends exactly on how we define heresy.

  • Barbara Gordon,

    I would say that our relationship with the Jews is much much closer than that which we have with Islam. If I could use an analogy (recognizing that all analogies ultimately limp somewhat):
    The Church is the Bride of the Bridegroom. Israel is engaged to the One Who will be her Bridegroom, loves Him but has not experienced the fullness of His Love-she is not yet ready. Islam happens to know He exists but hardly knows Him.

  • Interestingly enough, the professing Christian who accused me of being a polytheist because of my acceptance of the Catholic Trinity was trying to claim that Catholics are worshipping 3 separate gods when we name the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit (vs the false polytheism that anzlyne referenced above that includes Mary as part of the Trinity.) My accuser, who is writing a book about this topic, at one point argued that our Christian God is eternally the same & therefore because in the natural world, 1 + 1+ 1= 3, that the Trinity is equivalent to 3 separate gods. I shared with her that spiritual reality & natural reality are not equivalent in all senses–that spiritually, if God says that 3 persons are 1, then 3 persons are 1 whether it makes physical sense to us or not. My line of argument seemed to infuriate her further as she claimed that polytheists like myself ( her words) always start spiritualizing things when we cannot explain them. Thankfully, my undergraduate degree is in mathematics, & I was required to take 2 semesters of Abstract Algebra before graduating. I shared with her that, by using various definitions and number systems, that it is indeed possible to use logic to show that 1+ 1 does not equal 2. Therefore based upon the given number system & definitions that it could be possible to show that 1+ 1+ 1 = 1 in the natural world in which we live. My accuser promptly took up another line of reasoning. Lol Unfortunately the liberals who author our public school text books have written into them the 5 pillars of Islam & detailed explanations about Muhammad. That means that most of the children in my state will graduate knowing more about the fundamentals of Islam than those students know about Christianity which is briefly mentioned in the same texts. It is those students about whom I was concerned when I asked above if Pope Francis had truly said that Christians & Muslims worship the same God. I am very concerned that many professing Christians do not even understand the basic Gospel of the death, burial, & resurrection of Jesus Christ. Some of them are sure to be confused by such statements re: Islam from the religious hierarchy.

    Thank you all for this information. I have 2 ordained Protestant ministers in the family with whom I am going to share all of it! One of them writes the youth Sunday School literature for an entire Protestant denomination. 😀

  • God is Love and the three Persons in the Trinity love. God is existence and God exists. God is Justice and the three Persons in God keep the Co-mandments. The Supreme Sovereign Being is three Persons in One God, the Trinity of Persons in One Supreme Sovereign Being.

  • That God is triune makes perfect sense. I could not imagine God if he were not a dynamic, triune being. How can a static and lifeless god be eternal and creative, for example? The doctrine of the Trinity is quite believable, though not altogether comprehensible.

  • “The doctrine of the Trinity is quite believable,” God is love, therefore, God needs someone to love. God the Father’s love for His Son, Jesus Christ, is the Holy Spirit, infinite love. God’s love becomes another Person WHO proceeds from the Father and the Son.
    ” though not altogether comprehensible.” The child on the beach had dug a hole in the sand and was running back and forth to the ocean, filling his hole with the water. St. Augustine came by and asked the child what he was doing. The child answered that he was putting the ocean into his hole. St. Augustine said that it is impossible. The angel in the form of a child said “That is how it is impossible for man to comprehend God.”

  • 1. Muslims “together with us adore the One, merciful God” (No. 252)

    Islam may be the only religion that does not teach the Golden Rule (Qur’an 48:29). It teaches violence and hatred against non-Muslims, specifically Jews and Christians (50:5).
    Qur’an 4:46, says Allah has cursed the Jews for their disbelief.
    Twenty-six Qur’an chapters cover jihad. All able-bodied believers must join the fight (Surah 2:216). The Quran orders Muslim murderers to “instill terror into the hearts of the unbeliever” and to “smite above their necks” (8:12).
    The test of faith is Allah is not found in good works, but in martyrdom while trying to murder unbelievers (47:4). Murdering unbelievers is the only way to salvation in Islam (4:47; 9:111).
    Murdering unbelievers is the means of obtaining forgiveness of sins for the mohammedan (4:96).
    The reward for murdering unbelievers is sexual delights with virgins and other carnal joys (38:51; 55:56; 55:76; 56:22). St. Alphonsus declared: “The Mohammedan Paradise is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.”
    Mohammedans are required to give aid and advance the murderers (8:74).
    Mohammedanism requires global conquest and domination (9:29).
    2. “The sacred writings of Islam have retained some Christian teachings” (No. 252)
    4. The Koran is opposed to all the fundamental Christian dogmas
    Mohammed managed to summarize in one teaching almost every doctrine that was condemned by the Church, with the exceptions of Monophysitism and Monotheletism. We worship the same God; they worship wrongly.
    Geert Wilders Berlin speech, excerpts:
    [T]he renowned Oxford historian J.M. Roberts wrote in 1985: “Although we carelessly speak of Islam as a ‘religion’; that word carries many overtones of the special history of western Europe. The Muslim is primarily a member of a community, the follower of a certain way, an adherent to a system of law, rather than someone holding particular theological views.” The Flemish Professor Urbain Vermeulen, the former president of the European Union of Arabists and Islamicists, too, points out that “Islam is primarily a legal system, a law,” rather than a religion. …
    These are not just statements by opponents of Islam. Islamic scholars say the same thing. … Abul Ala Maududi, the influential 20th century Pakistani Islamic thinker, wrote – I quote, emphasizing that these are not my words but those of a leading Islamic scholar – “Islam is not merely a religious creed [but] a revolutionary ideology and jihad refers to that revolutionary struggle … to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth, which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam.” …

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  • I found a article about a book The Medjugorje Deception. Would like your opinion.
    Let me start by saying that I down to earth, was business man, professional and understand a bit of what it takes to run small enterprise, but never could even image what it takes and the politics behind running something like the Vatican which is the other side that most people want to turn a blind eye to it, simply put, they do not what to know because they believe that it is going to diminish their spiritual growth, to me is simply a matter of survival. No money no church, no Magisterium to keep me inform, no sacrament because there would be no priest, etc…. but the true, what it is the true, this is another question and that is why I am asking my question.

  • I know nothing about Medjugorje and questions about it are not germane to this thread in any case.

  • MPS, You write: “…This is why St Augustine says, “God has mercy on no man in vain. He calls the man on whom He has mercy in the way He knows will suit him, so that he will not refuse the call.”

    But does man’s Free Will allow him to resist efficacious grace or God’s call? The Calvinists following Augustine claim that Grace is irresistable.

  • Botolph: “I would not want anyone to describe the Catholic Faith by pointing out the sins of Catholics. ” Nor do I, but while we see multiple wives and slavery as sin, the Muslims don’t. Or at least a lot of them do not. We have a Magisterium we can point to and say “this thing is Catholic” and “that thing is not Catholic.” Even Planned Parenthood knows that the Church doesn’t approve of birth control and abortion.
    I am given to understand that in Islam there is no Magisterium; if true, then one comes into the situation such as exists in Protestantism–one denomination can say homosexual behavior is wrong (Evangelicals), and then the Episcopalians can ordain Gene Robinson to the rank of bishop (yes, I know Episcopal and Anglican “Holy Orders” are void.) Since the Muslims can’t totally figure out what they believe, how can the Vatican say for certain “they adore and worship the one God”?

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  • I saw this article some weeks back on First Things concerning the Christian Origins of Islam. It is interesting.

  • DJ Hesselius, Protestantism is merely a vague term. No magisterium is needed because each church decides its own doctrine. Evangelical Protestants and denominations reflecting protestant evanglicalism believe the Bible is inspired, so that they follow its beliefs. Other Protestant groups may not believe in divine inspiration or may not believe we are obligated to follow the Bible. They decide that within their denomination. The Episcopal Church in America did that, and of course we know Gene Robinson was elected, as was the presiding bishop Schori who condones homosexual practice.

  • D J Hesselius,

    First let me say, in reference to the link from First Things and the Christian origins of Islam, Dante knew his ‘stuff’ when showing Mohammed as one who divided Christianity and not the founder of a new religion. Saint John of Damascus [Damascene] writing from Islamic Damascus only a century after the rise of Islam, stated that Mohammedism is a Christian heresy. BTW I find it fascinating that Islam rose just as Arianism was disappearing. Coincidence? As a further example I had a fascinating conversation with a very friendly and knowledgible Moslem lay person. First thing out of his mouth was that there are only two ‘realities’ the created and the Uncreated. God (He said “Allah” is uncreated-everything else is created. That’s almost a word for word quote from Arius-who was attempting to conform the Catholic Faith to Greek Philosophical categories

    Now in regards to your post/response: it is true that Islam allows/encourages polygamy. They have some very tough laws concerning adultery, stealing etc—–very Middle Eastern. In no way am I excusing any of this, or offering an apologia for Islam in any of its forms. If you read my original post in this series you will see that I am completely in agreement with Father Samir. I have his book on Islam. I keep it close by when discussing Islam. He knows his stuff.

    You are correct that Islam as a whole does not have a Magisterium. No world religion does. Certainly other Christians do not even accept our Magisterium. Only Catholics recognize the “trinity” of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and Magisterium [Pope and bishops].

    There are is a major division between Sunni and Shiite Moslems however. I have seen it explained in this way. What would have happened if the Protestant Reformation took place right after Jesus Christ ‘died”? This is what happened in Islam. A huge portion was swept up in the Sunni movement which had each local iman and mosque as its own center of faith. Each iman can interpret the Quran as he thinks best. etc On the other hand the Shiites, who gathered around the ‘martyred’ [by the other side] son-in-law have an organized religious institution. They have both “overseers”: ayatollahs and imans. The Sunnis look to a Caliph to run things for them, while the Sunni look to their ayatollahs.

    As to your comment that we don’t know what the Moslems believe because there is no magisterium, I do not agree. The one thing we do know: they believe that Allah exists, He is One, and that He is the Creator-and that Mohammed is His prophet. The word “Allah” is related to El/Elohim in Semitic languages. El/Elohim is the ‘original Name” for the Creator in the Old Testament. He is the God of the Patriarchs. In our Scriptures, when “El” or “Elohim” is used we say, “God” or “the Almighty”. “The Almighty” actually comes from “El Shaddai” which literally means “God of the Mountain”. In the Exodus, Israel came to realize that the God [El/Elohim} of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob is “The Lord” [Adonai-YHWH] Now in and through Christ we have come to recognize “the Name” as “the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit” and confess in our Creed that we believe in One God Who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit [One God in Three Divine Persons]

    Moslems know the One God, the Creator Whom we worship, but do not have His Self-revelation in event and word in the history of Israel as “the Lord”, and certainly do not know, and in fact deny His Full Revelation in and through Jesus Christ, the Son Who reveals Father, Son and Spirit, in and through His Incarnation, His Life, Ministry, words but most especially in and through His Paschal Mystery.

  • “Since the Muslims can’t totally figure out what they believe, how can the Vatican say for certain “they adore and worship the one God”?
    Excellent insight.

  • It was obviously an error to say they (Muslims) worship the same God as Christians. Then again, perhaps it is an example of purposeful obfiscation for the purpose of ecumenical dialogue or conciliatory relations.

  • “Peace is best achieved with Islam by defeating it.”
    Unfortunately that seems to be very true today.

    But things used to be very different.
    I know that, being myself a Lebanese Christian, before the emergence of fundamentalist Islam in the latter part of the 20th century, Muslims and Christians had alot in common when referring to God in every day interactions. For example there is various sayings in Arabic common to both- translated into English-
    – “God have mercy” “Allah yerham” (when a family member died)
    – “Gods-will be done”- “3aniyet Allah” (when referring to planning of ones day)
    – “God forgive me” (when one is in error)
    – “smallah” from “Essem Allah” meaning “In the name of God”- a blessing.
    – “Goodbye” is actually “Allah ma3koun”. To both Christians and Muslims.

    Infact, moderate Muslims and Christians still talk in this manner to each other in everyday conversation. My parents Muslims friends do anyway.

    “Allah” is in fact the Arabic word for God to both Christians and Muslims. I say Allah when talking Arabic to my family. I am a Catholic Arab.

    But other expressions that a Christian would NOT say around a Muslim would be “in the name of the cross” “esmes Salib” (very common in conversations), and “Christ is with you” “el Masih Ma3koon”. You definitely don’t say these to a Muslim! A good one, wouldn’t care, but the strict ones would take offense.

    Anyway, from one perspective, I get what Fr Samir is saying. But before Islamic Fundamentalism, God was God to both. He is understood to be the same Creator, to the everyday person of both religions. He just is God!

  • Slainté asks, “does man’s Free Will allow him to resist efficacious grace or God’s call?”

    Of course, just as free will allows a doting mother, if she chooses, to watch her toddler drown in a paddling pool, without going to its aid. Free will consists in doing what we choose to do. Grace does not, and has no need, to interfere with our power of choice; rather, it affects what we want to do – In other words, it is the delectatio coelestis victrix of St Augustine.

  • As far as human free will goes, Islam does not recognize it beyond doing Allah’s will or not. There is a very strong predestination streak in Islam. In a sense, all Muslims are “slaves of Allah”

    Also, Allah may be the Creator, but it is a different Creator than the Christian God. In Christianity God does not commit evil. In Islam a God who refrains from evil cannot be God, since God cannot be self-limiting. Allah MUST be capable of evil, and MUST be capable of doing two diametrically opposite things at the same time, or he would not be God.

  • thanks Botolph – ah yes I remember I did know that – swiss cheese brain sometimes
    I appreciate all the great input on this post- good for us to air our ideas and concerns and share information. Thankfully on TAC there are so many erudite teachers. I especially like learning (and teaching) by asking questions – thanks everyone