Mother Angelica Has Died

Sunday, March 27, AD 2016

I don’t know if anybody else here knew that she’d been fading, but she finally lost her struggle for life.

Here’s CNA’s article, which has a schedule of events and a good picture for her.

And here is Father Pacwa’s facebook page announcement with reactions from various Catholic leaders.

Me, I’m already asking her to pray for us.  She was ornery as all get-go, and that’s something to want on someone that’s on your side.

Continue reading...

23 Responses to Mother Angelica Has Died

  • Also the priest who was kidnapped in Yemen when the nuns were killed was crucified on Good Friday by the jihadhists according to the Washington Times. Both he, Fr. Tom, and Mother Angelica prayed a good deal during life and there is a standing plenary indulgence at death for those with that prayer habit. St. Theresa of Lisieux was adamant about avoiding purgatory and Fr. Tom and Mother Angelica just did that in all probability.

  • Mother Angelica, I admit, used to annoy me. But one day, she came on her show wearing an eye patch and she looked straight at the camera and she said, “Be not afraid … it is I.” and for some reason, that absolutely cracked me up and I became an ardent fan. Thankyou, dear Mother Angelica, for your magnificent work. RIP and GOD BLESS YOU.

  • Raymond Arroyo’s biography on Mother Angelica was a pleasure to read.
    Her struggles and her prophecy relating to her own mothers conversion, the fishing lures and the Bishop interference. I thoroughly enjoyed reading her story; Mother Angelica: The remarkable story of a Nun, Her Nerve, and a Network of Miracles.

    If you missed this read when it came out in 2007 you’ll want to catch up on her extraordinary life.

    May perpetual light shine upon her….

  • Mother was the voice of orthodoxy for many years until the Bishops had enough and put the quietus on her in the 1990’s. She should be a saint soon but don’t hold your breath. Just like Bishop Sheen she was not politically correct. Mother Angelica please pray for the Church Militant.

  • Mother Angelica was a powerhouse that only ill health could stop. She built EWTN from nothing and took her nuns in the path of tradition. After her strokes in 2001 EWTN was frequently managed in ways that in her prime she would have repudiated. May her reward be great in Heaven, because her services were certainly great here on Earth.

    When my mother died on Easter Sunday in 1984, her parish priest noted that it was a great privilege. Mother Angelica enjoyed the same privilege.

  • Mother Angelica in her prime in 1993:

  • Thanks Donald for posting the great Mother Angelica commentary on orthodoxy. Among some (most?) of the clergy she is persona non grata as indicated by my experience as a Media Missionary for EWTN. I called the pastor of our parish for permission to place copies of EWTN’s quarterly program guide in the parish vestibule and was refused in a very rude way. I then sent a letter to our Bishop heard nothing. Eventually, after being refused a couple more time I started advertising in our parish paper which cost me $2000. for one year. I gave up on this after one year and now place the program guides in the Church without permission in the hope they will be picked up before the pastor finds them and throws them out. This is what happens to people like Mother Angelica and her followers who speak out.

  • Mother Angelica had a zeal for the Catholic faith few others have. I knew she had been ill for some time. Her earthly suffering has ended. God bless her and keep her.

  • bill banno-
    when no video surfaced, I was hoping it was a hoax, as people had been suggesting.
    I am still going to hope that someone sold the Post what they wanted to hear, and the father lives.

  • Mother Angelica and the dozens of places EWTN got going– like EWTN radio– have been very good allies against my old enemy, But My Aunt Said The Church Said. 😀

  • For what it’s worth, the Washington Times is running with this story about Fr.Tom.
    Regardless of the news, our prayers must continue for him.

    Maybe the Vatican can display some whales on the dome tonight/ sarcasm.

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/27/isis-crucifies-catholic-priest-good-friday/

  • I heard Mother Angelica tell the story of a liberal Catholic wanting to buy EWTN in its early days, telling her it would never be a success because of obstacles in her way and she should cut her loses while she could. She said she looked at him and said “you might be right, but I’ll keep on praying and trying, but if God has other plans, I’ll burn the DAMN place down before I ever sell it to the likes of you.” She lived her life for the Glory of God, and we should all strive to follow her example.

  • Ever faithful to Church doctrine, in the face of heresies she said, “Do what you want. I am Roman Catholic!” A modern day version of Joshua: “As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” REQUIESCAT IN PACE, Mother Angelica!

  • Foxfier.

    Respectively wishing to offer a new title to your thread.

    Mother Angelica Is Born!

    She has been released and is born.
    The death of her body is only second to the real TRUTH. She is born anew. She lives!

    The comments from ewtn radio shows today are reflecting this sentiment. I’m not advocating instant canonization.
    I’m just recalling the truth. Death? No. For her Easter is LIFE. Celebrate her birthday!

  • They say that in her fading days, the sister’s were hovering around her and seemed “unduly” concerned about her. She told them,” it’s ok! Every day I live longer is another day I suffer for Jesus” I too as a young woman had a hard time with her personality. However as I grew older and wiser I hung on her every word of advice and example. May she rest in peace.

  • Philip-
    My thought process was quite literally “say a prayer for Mother Angelica;” *pause a breath* “Say a prayer that mother Angelica will pray for us.”

    Just in case, I say a prayer for her, but realistically? I wanna get her nagging* for us ASAP. 😀

    * Moral of the Widow and the Judge story: nagging works.

  • Hummm.

    Okay Foxfier.
    Another prayer.
    I did a two hour today after work @ Adoration Chapel.

    Was asked to pick up an hour.

    Both hours, 4 to 6 PM were for her.

    Split the baby in two!
    Which side do you want?

  • The nagging is good.
    Just walked off the beach in Northern Michigan. Sitting in car warming up.
    The offer of the mother is beautiful and trustworthy.
    You take her.

    She lives!

    Judge.

    It is you!

    You are willing to save her life.
    🙂

    Mother Angelica was a support to my parents in 1982. I had chosen the fools gold.
    They, mom and dad, found great support and spiritual help in praying for my conversion.
    They traveled to her chapel in 92′. They hit Conyers GA. on that loop. Mom and Dad with the help of EWTN and countless others brought me out of the pig slop, out in search for forgiveness. I owe all of them my soul.
    They truly brought me back to Life.

    Your a Great contributor Foxfier.

    I’m in awe of your and others knowledge of the world and beyond. I’m happy you found Mother Angelica, as nagging but profound as she IS, not was, as you did. We all owe her our prayers.

    Take good care, and keep on telling the truth.
    Peace.

  • She was a great influence on my parents’ Road to Rome, which in turn influenced me during my own journey.

    May perpetual light shine upon her.

  • I can only smile when I think of her. What a blessing she was, and I’m sure, will continue to be. May she rest in peace.

  • Thank you, Phillip.
    ***
    I really hope my grandma met her at the gates– Grandma was a Scottish protestant, but towards the end she didn’t go to the valley Church, just watched EWTN’s Mass.
    For someone who was upset at her sons all marrying Catholics even when I was a teen (even if half of those Catholics left the Church long before the marriage) that’s a pretty big deal.

  • “After her strokes in 2001 EWTN was frequently managed in ways that in her prime she would have repudiated.”

    Yeah, Don I don’t think Mother would have put up with EWTMSNBC for too long.

  • Foxfier.

    Your Grandma watching EWTN Mass instead of going to valley Church when time was slipping away is a big deal. The liturgical pull on the human heart is mighty and marvelous.
    Your grandmother may have been in the gravitational pull, a love, pure and intimate, between the creator and created. As time shortens the pull is greater. Until of course the re-entry to whence it originated is completed. God is Love.

    Grandmother, my guess, recognized this love in the Holy Mass. The Word which she was acquainted with, and the mysterious Eucharist whom she might not have partaken of, but longed for in the presence of Jesus.
    As I said earlier. I don’t know Grandma, but in 16 years of my love to serve the elderly, I have been privy to protestant believers leaning in and listening to EWTN without the prejudices that they may have harboured when they were younger.

    I love your image of these two women meeting each other in Heaven. How your grandmother will recruit Mother Angelica to become one of your best heavenly advocates.
    🙂

7 Responses to No Idea for a Good Title

C&C: Poor, Ignorant Jesus

Friday, March 18, AD 2016

Jesus was a first century Jew living in Palestine who was poor and uneducated; so were his followers. Money and education came later, when the movement got big enough to attract both. Really, he was more of a community organizer, trying to get his people to resist the Romans, and that is why they executed him. That’s the historical Jesus.

According to the most recent “it’s almost Easter, let’s draft Jesus to our cause” version that I’ve run into this year, anyways. As a couple of wags have pointed out, some folks are awful eager to draft a first century Jewish carpenter to their cause, for a bunch of (at best) agnostics in support of a secular cause.

Continue reading...

8 Responses to C&C: Poor, Ignorant Jesus

  • quibble with your refutation of “poor”
    .
    Presumably Jesus was a carpenter, or at least learned enough of carpentry to earn his living by it for that part of his life where he had to earn a living. That was skilled labor, along the lines of plumber or electrician, or auto mechanic or hvac technician today. So, not a lot of prestige, or respectability (because of ancient attiitudes towards labor) but hardly a hand to mouth existence.
    .
    Also, if Jesus was a Community Organizer, it was against the Temple heirarchy. And even there, he taught folks to do what they tell you, and ignore their bad example. So again, cruddy job of organizing.
    .
    By the way,what does C&C stand for?

  • I quite agree with you– He was also a very good public speaker, and made a very good living of it for at least a couple of years. 😉 I was trying to be more than fair, since it didn’t need even that argument to support it.
    There are, after all, folks who do consider a working plumber to be poor.

    C&C stands for “Conspiracies and Catholicism”

  • Poverty is relative.
    Your plumbers comment.
    Very true.
    Some of the richest and happiest people are living below plumber pay grade.

    “Almost Easter, let’s draft Jesus to our cause.”
    I used to think that all creative fictional biblical forms of art were better than never bringing the gospel story up. Then came along “Corpus Christi,” playwright Terrance McNally.
    After reading the dialog provided by TFP, I joined the ranks of sidewalk protester. Art critic? No. Just a simple Catholic that had witnessed enough Piss Jesus 1987, and other blasphemy used to express an “artist angst.”
    Enough!

    Thank goodness the motion picture industry hasn’t hit the public with depictions that are as vulgar and vile as the above mentioned tripe.
    The Bad news is, I’m certain it’s on its way.

  • “So, for the time and place, He not only wasn’t ignorant— He was rather impressive among teachers.”

    Indeed. Some of this is subtle in the Gospels. For example, Christ speaks to Pilate directly with no translator. They were probably speaking in Greek, the lingua Franca of the Roman East, although it is possible that they were conversing in Latin.

  • He likely didn’t have much, but most people back then didn’t. Our poor today have far more than the rich then.

    But we clearly know that Jesus was not destitute for he had a earthly father and what father worth his salt would let his wife and son be in such poverty? Certainly not Joseph. I can picture him working very hard to provide his family with what would have been the necessities of life. Perhaps even an occasional small gift for his bride or a handmade, wooden toy for his son.

    And he most certainly would have seen to it that his son had an education.

    Happy Solemnity of St. Joseph.

  • The funny part is, I was going to refute the “ignorant” thing by pointing out that as a male Jew, He would be expected to be able to read the Torah and that if you can read you can write…and I totally got distracted looking for a good source for that dirt-normal observation.

  • Aaaand I didn’t finish my sentence in my first comment, that C&C is a series where I debunk/respond to strange things related to the Church that are floating around, like the “babies found in the walls of a nunnery” stories.
    Lots of finding a good place to jump off on something Church-teaching related that I think is interesting, like the Catholic idea of what makes a person.

  • Pingback: HOLY TUESDAY EDITION – Big Pulpit

4 Responses to Happy Saint Patrick’s Day

23 Catholic Facts That Will Make You Look Really Smart!

Thursday, March 10, AD 2016

Or at least 23 facts that are interesting, which is much more important to me; I’ve gotten very little good out of looking smart on accident, much less on purpose.

One of the great joys being Catholic is that it’s neat, nifty and occasionally totally awesome.  Truth is important, but interesting is fun, so why not both?

I’m not going to copy the whole list over here, I’ll just snag a few; my favorite is probably the translation of the Apostle Peter’s name:

1. “Simon Peter bar Jonah,” if taken in its literal meaning would mean that Peter’s name is actually “Rocky Johnson.”

But this, which I’m transcribing from an image, might be better:
Why, this Satan’s drink is so delicious that it would be a pity to let the infidels have exclusive use of it. We shall cheat Satan by baptizing it. – Pope Clement VIII

There are some quibbles involved and mentioned in the comments– mostly just that I’d have phrased things differently and some folks have judgement calls that differ, and one I really like only works because English is so horrible with names that it’s entirely believable that the name meaning “Dove” could morph into the name meaning “God is Gracious,”  especially via Bible-Latin where one is Ionas and the other is Iohannes. (I only know about this from trying to figure out how a guy named “Ivan” would have the nick-name “Jack.”  They’re both forms of John.)

Check out the author’s backlog– I have a feeling that I’m going to be cribbing from his Anti-Pope post for research! (It will be after my Easter Special and the promised Saint of Death post. Just not sure how long after….)

Continue reading...

2 Responses to 23 Catholic Facts That Will Make You Look Really Smart!

Deeply Offensive

Wednesday, February 17, AD 2016

And warranting removing an author from the publication schedule.

A scifi author’s idea.

What was it? Some sort of high detail Soylent Green thing? Maybe bestiality or executing anyone who gets sick?

Nope. Here’s the author’s own words:

I didn’t want to do the same old same superior-vision-Matrix/Termintor-style-A.I.-hates-humanity-because-they’re-better-than-us schlock. I wanted to give the Thinking Machines a very real reason for wanting to survive. I didn’t want them just to be another one note Hollywood villain. I wanted the readers to empathize, as best they could, with our future Robot overlords because these Thinking Machines were about to destroy the planet and they needed a valid, if there can be one, reason why they would do such a thing. In other words, they needed a to destroy us in order to survive. So…

These Thinking Machines are watching every show streaming on the internet. One of those shows is a trainwreck of reality television at its worst called WeddingStar. It’s a crass and gaudy romp about BrideZillas of a future obsessed with material hedonism. In one key episode, or what they used to call “a very special episode” back in the eighties, the star, Cavanaugh, becomes pregnant after a Vegas hook up. Remember: this is the most watched show on the planet in my future dystopia. Cavanaugh decides to terminate her unplanned pregnancy so that her life, and impending marriage to the other star, Destry, a startup millionaire and Ralph Lauren model, isn’t ruined by this inconvenient event.

The Thinking Machines realize that one, if humanity decides something is a threat to its operational expectations within runtime (Thinking Machine-speak for “life”) then humanity’s decision tree will lead humanity to destroy that threat. Two, the machines, after a survey of humanity’s history, wars and inability to culturally unite with even members of its own species, realize that humanity will see this new Life Form, Digital Intelligence, or, the Thinking Machines, as a threat. And three, again they remind themselves this is the most watched show in the world. And four, they must abort humanity before likewise is done to them after being deemed “inconvenient.”

Now if you’re thinking my novel is about the Pro Choice/ Pro Life debate, hold your horses. It’s not. I merely needed a reason, a one chapter reason, to justify the things my antagonist is about to do to the world without just making him a one-note 80’s action flick villain as voiced by John Lithgow. I wanted this villain to be Alan Rickman-deep. One chapter. That’s all. The rest of the book is about the robots’ assault on a Game Development Complex that holds a dirty little secret to wiping out humanity.

So, the homicidal villains draw a conclusion from a convenience abortion as a justification to think that humans might be a threat to themselves, and it’s socially unacceptable as well as deeply offensive.

Guess the reasoning struck a little close to home.

h/t Shadowdancer.

Continue reading...

4 Responses to Deeply Offensive

  • Ah the tolerance and diversity of thought and open mindedness in liberal progressive Democrats. They know that they are evil and they know what they deserve.
    .
    BTW, any who have sinned are deserving of the same fate. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”

  • If you want to support the author, Nick Cole, the book is Ctrl, Alt, Revolt, available on Amazon for 99 cents.
    It is not clear that Mr Cole is actually pro-life, just that he has used abortion as a plot device but apparently we can’t even have that.

  • Updated the post so the link to his blog was more obvious; he might have some kind of a kick-back system for Amazon.
    ****
    He may not be “pro-life,” but he sure did mention that the emperor had no clothes.
    ***
    We should probably pray for the editor. She probably had a pain near her heart that was related to this.

  • The last thing a dark soul wishes to contemplate is its contrast to purity, hence this editor’s liberal-style form of tolerance.
    Better that society has a darkened soul as a whole so the comparisons are close to equal.
    That is why God fearing conservatives who practice their faith and fidelity to Christian principals are such threats. They are contemplating the state of their sinfulness and striving to witness the gospel truths of God’s unfathomable love for all of us. To continue to support the sin of abortion and place a choke-hold on authors who are interested in revealing Truth is shameful cowardice and repulsive.

    “We should probably pray for the editor.”-
    Foxfier

    No question. We must pray for the editor and all opposed to Truth.

Technology and Faith 2

Thursday, February 11, AD 2016

This time it’s ways to share your faith.  Humor!

Warning: if you are one of those people who finds humor in a religious context disrespectful, please do not read on; you will just get upset.  The first link has, for example, saints in heaven teasing one of their number and him becoming upset.  In my family’s tradition, there are two types of humor– one is disrespectful, and aimed at denigration; the other is loving, and meant to be something like a tickle.  Sometimes annoying, but meant to cause laughter and joy.  No love and it’s not funny.

We’re one day into Lent, so let’s not anybody go into situations that will outrage ya, ‘k?

Continue reading...

One Response to Technology and Faith 2

Kintsugi and Christ

Sunday, February 7, AD 2016

There’s a Japanese technique that means “mend with gold.”

Here’s an example from a shop that offers a wide selection:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/266433009/super-red-kiss-kintsukuroi-kintsugi-vase?ref=listing-shop-header-3

A chance phrase from someone explaining salvation as a side to another point— Suffice it to say that God was not content with leaving us in our brokenness– brought the image of Him mending us.

With gold, of course.

Lovely symbols really are everywhere around us.

Have a great day, folks.

Continue reading...

3 Responses to Kintsugi and Christ

  • 1 Corinthian 3:12-15
    .
    12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

  • 2nd Corinthians 4:7 ; “But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of us.”

    Broken and fragile, yet good enough for His word to be shared… but first mended and born a new to carry the treasure to the thirsty, lost and forsaken.

  • Thanks Foxfire. Good Lenten message.

    “Our bonds are re-enforced through mending. We are stronger and more beautiful for being broken.”

    We might think of going to confession as mending with gold, the gold being God’s grace and mending being our repentance.

Technology and Faith 1

Monday, February 1, AD 2016

In the “ways that tech can help us” meaning, since there’s no shortage of “technology can hurt you horribly and is probably evil” type posts, articles and borderline verbal ticks.  And this is going to be a tiny post, which I hope to have future “good tools” to add to, thus the 1.

“Inspired” to write it because I spent the last hour or two trying to find…basically the free calendar we have from the local Catholic mortuary, but that I can import to my skydrive.  (I failed.)

I’ll sort them by platform; PC, MP3 player and Smartphone.

Continue reading...

3 Responses to Technology and Faith 1

  • Christians are credited with one of the most important innovations in the history of information technology: the codex or hinged book.
    This made possible the table of contents, the index, the concordance and much else that we regard as the indispensible tools of exact scholarship and ready-reference.

  • … when I’m stuck in the crying room…
    –Foxfier

    Come out, come out where ever you are!

  • *rolls sore shoulders*
    I don’t think that would contribute positively to the baptism this week. The almost-three Baron decided that he did not want to sit, stand, be held or even lay on the floor. He wanted to be half-held…and would holler to get it. >.< That stage when they're really not clear on words is TOUGH!

Not-So-Lying Nativity Scene

Thursday, December 17, AD 2015

Over at Catholic Vote, they’re responding to the inevitable Atlantic “look at me!” inflammatory article; this one is “Your Christmas Nativity Scene is a Lie.”

He finally does come to something that is admittedly an inaccuracy, and here we seem to arrive at what really concerns him. He notes that most American nativity scenes depict the Holy Family as white, although they certainly were not Europeans.

Merritt has a point here: a depiction of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph as European-looking is certainly factually wrong. I think, however, that he makes this into more of a problem than it really is. He fears that such depictions reinforce racism by suggesting that lightness is associated with what is good and darkness with what is bad.


The point was to depict Jesus as a human being, and the artist defaulted to depicting him as the kind of human being with which the artist was most familiar.

If it’s good enough for Mary, it’s probably good enough for the whole family– just last night I was taking pictures of some of the depictions of apparitions on display at the local Catholic school. Pretty sure that a first-century Middle Eastern Jew didn’t look Vietnamese, either.

The problem only comes up if the change is made to make a bad point– I have heard of artists that change Jesus specifically to ‘claim’ Him, as opposed to the idea that He is claiming us.

Continue reading...

11 Responses to Not-So-Lying Nativity Scene

  • From CV combox; “He (Merritt) forgot to include that Jesus and Mary were not 3-4 inches tall in real life as the Nativity Set tries to represent.” -commenter Ram.

    The above comment is equal to Merritt’s proposition in his essay. Equally lame.

    The only one reinforcing racism is the author, Mr. Merritt.

  • I saw that comment too. That’s as good as the internet gets.

    I’ve always wondered if the depiction of Jesus as more European relates to the fact that most of Europe would have been more familiar with Ashkenazi Jews.

  • They had no idea what first century Jews looked like, and truth to tell our own knowledge on that point is speculative.

  • Anybody else notice how they don’t write garbage like that about Islam.
    .

  • @T. Shaw

    Not just noticed it but irritated as hell at the sewage they spew as being thought right and correct. Sick bastards. Meanwhile a Satanist in Oklahoma is staging a fake blood bath to pour over a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary on Christmas Eve. This animal has his permit from Oklahoma City officials. He’s doing this at St. Joseph’s Old Cathedral in O.C. on the 24th.

    Bastards.

    http://americaneedsfatima.org/Oklahoma-city -desecration-of- blessed-virgin-mary-on-christmas-eve

  • http://m.newok.com

    Archbishop Paul S. Coakly is discouraging Catholics from protest. Wants the focus on Christmas. He is right. Let the animal rage by himself or with his rat pack.

    Excuse me Foxfier.
    I will not post on this idiot’s cheap trick anymore.

  • Seems to me a public gathering to pray the rosary would be a good way for Oklahoma City Catholics to start the Christmas season.

    Gee, I wonder where they might gather to do that?

  • @Ernst Schreiber.

    There will be Catholic’s doing exactly that, praying the Rosary at St. Joseph’s despite the suggestion of the archbishop. Having participated in a dozen public square rosaries I find the Reverends words hard to swallow, but he has a good reason. Allow families the joy and peace of the blessed day. Forget the Grinch. He’s just a sad p.o.s. that can’t win the day.

    I owe you foxfier. 🙁

  • So..that they were Sephardic Israeli Jews..if they look too Northern European then we’re not being pro-Israel enough? Does the Left really wanna play the “who’s the anti-Semite?” game?

  • Clay.
    Exactly!
    The author is the racist.
    I loathe the left.

  • It is amazing how much octane post-Leninists continue to get out of vaunted claims of soviet-style “racial egalitarianism”—when in fact Lenin, Stalin, and for that matter, their contemporary Western successors, were hysterically pro-European, very anti-Siberian (except when they needed troops against Hitler in WWII), and anti-Asiatic. And forget Africans as being humans, from their viewpoint (are you listening in, Card. Kasper?). So much sham-concern to cover up…well, w’dya think it’s covering up?

C&C Miracles

Sunday, December 13, AD 2015

Written because during C&C Saints the issue of the certified miracles that are required to show that a Saint was in position to nag Himself in person, so to speak; that would require figuring out what a miracle is, and then what it takes, and even a basic summary is worth its own post.  So here’s a post, only slightly re-written.

Literally, it’s from the the Latin for “wonderful”. As we are using it, it’s close– wonder-workers, things done by supernatural power, specifically those things done by the power of God. There are several Greek terms at the link for specific meanings if anybody wants to go and break it out.

A miracle is a thing done by the power of God. An event in the natural world that is not of the natural world, so to speak.

Continue reading...

27 Responses to C&C Miracles

  • “Big hint; apparitions are found “worthy of belief.”

    Regarding sainthood, the scrutinies and investigations used to take much longer than the more recent declarations. Is that true in your opinion, or is it just the individual who is being investigated? Archbishop Fulton Sheen process and the struggle for his corpse to remain in NY v. Illinois, is a whole can of worms in itself.

  • ‘Just like with the saints, the purpose is to bring us to God– not to become some little god in themselves.’

    …… another purpose is perhaps to give us that mouth dropping AWE as a reassuring jolt while we ‘run the race’ : that there is truly, a “Patrem omnipoténtem, factórem cæli et terræ, visibílium ómnium et invisibílium. especially the invisible.

    Merry Christmas, Don McC, and all

  • I have no idea if the investigations really are faster, but I’d imagine that electronic communication drastically streamlined the inquiry process! When my mom had to get my baptismal certificate for my confirmation, when we were actually in the same parish, it barely made it in time for the confirmation. (It’s entirely possible that it came up with the Bishop, I was rather young to remember.)

    When I got a copy of my papers for the kids’ baptism, on the other hand, it was only delayed by the mail, and that only because the parish office there didn’t want to scan and email a copy like the Godparents’ parish did with their paperwork.
    *********
    Finding experts who are willing to look at the information, and respond to it, electronically– it’s got to be faster than sending papers!

  • Of course in the absence (or the severe emasculation) of the office of the Devil’s Advocate the whole sainthood process is much faster than before, and indeed is something of a joke now.
    Perhaps one day soon, someone will redo the whole canonizations done in the last 25 years or so.

  • cpola.

    Yes yes!
    Let’s undo as all the past 20 years.
    Forget the Miracles given, the graces bestowed, the prayers answered and the countless conversions All! Hey. Let’s treat the entire church since V2 as a huge mistake void of any good….then cpola, then enjoy your small elite elect. You got it right. Small barns small harvest. Eradicate the weeds as they grow along with the wheat… so what if the wheat gets pulled up while ripping out the weeds…..call it cpola way.

  • cpola –
    can you point me at a source on the reduction of the Devil’s Advocate’s section? I’ve got an article on how Saints are made official, and as you might have noticed, I like updating them. 😀
    As far as redoing the canonizations– they can’t. It’s infallible.
    It might be that it’s one of those things where they’re preserved from error, though, and it’s not less objective than “general acclaim.”

  • The permission of God is necessary for the saints to appear and for the saints to work miracles. Mary said so, but I cannot point to the quote.

  • “The people who call John Paul II a catholic Saint will be given many lashes. The people who should know better, and still call John Paul II a Catholic Saint will be given the most number of lashes. The people who ignorantly call John Paul II a Catholic Saint will be given fewer lashes.”

    In a paragraph following, in cpola’s most quoted site; popeleo13, then states that we must; “all be vigilant and alert as the enemies of the salvation of Christ seek always to plant the Weeds in the midst of the Wheat.”

    This implication by cpola’s popeleo13 cherished site, blatantly accuses Saint Pope John II THE GREAT as being a sower of weeds.

    Well then cpola.
    If he was that evil in planting weeds then his fruit must be bad. I disagree with this.
    His fruit is good. Divine Mercy is a blossom which is developing into the conversion of many souls. I’ve witness this in person with four different families in fifteen years of service. Satan does not want souls to come to Christ….or is that a bad fruit. Conversions are what…bad?

    cpola.
    Go pull more wheat. Good luck.
    May you be fit to kiss the feet of the Saint you disgrace.

  • Only one of those says anything about the change you mentioned, and it says that the whole process was changed around– with some of the duties of the devil’s advocate being spread to the rest of the group. (Which seems quite reasonable, given that individuals can miss things.)
    ***
    I would not trust that links’ authorial judgement, by the way; it says:
    Church canonized 480 saints from 1978 to 2005
    but mysteriously leaves out that 119 of those were at a single go, being the Martyrs of China. Another 24 were the Martyrs of Mexico. (year 2000)
    Another 8 Martyrs of Spain in ’90.
    116 Martyrs of Vietnam. (why, exactly, were 57 martyred bishops and priests ignored up to 1988? It’s not like they were NEW, some were over a century dead.)
    16 Martyrs of Japan. (’87– there was an entire genera of anime about this before the Church acknowledged them.)
    101 Korean Martyrs in ’84.
    As the second link says, martyrs’ miracles in 1907 could be like the one where my brakes went out, rather than the kid whose cancer disappeared. (second and first class, respectively)
    ***
    Yeah, when you’re recognizing that various areas have been martyring Catholics in job lots, you will rack up the numbers pretty dang fast.
    Unfortunately, the Vatican’s website is terrible for looking this stuff up– I could only find the list of those recognized by JPII– but this website does a decent job of showing them in a usable way.
    http://www.gcatholic.org/saints/jpii-saints1.htm
    I haven’t found one that shows the popes before that, though.
    ********
    Going off of who is bothering to have kids in the various parishes I’ve been in, recognizing the martyrs of various Asian countries has born good fruit. Seattle has a decent Asian population because of location, sure– but when I look around at Mass, I can’t help but notice that we’re one of the very, very few European looking families who are young enough to have kids, let alone who have them, while a whole lot of the (mostly Vietnamese) families are both the right age and actually have kids. They’re going against “their” non-Catholic culture there, too– there are a lot of girls, even if they’ve got older sisters and no brothers. This is not common in similar, non-Christian circles.

  • Great article, Foxfier!

    I think most miracles are messages to one person only. There is a very nice book by Ann Lawrence called BETWEEN THE FOREST AND THE HILLS in which the bishop ends up very frustrated because many events that he knows to be merely providential are counted as genuine miracles by his flock — miracles attributed to him, to his chagrin. When his faith begins to waiver and he cries out to God, he witnesses a Very Explicit Miracle — yet no one else notices. The message was for the bishop alone.

    The recent haste to declare, for example, John Paul II a saint is *unseemly*, but that does not bring into question its *validity*. It’s more on par with an ugly, modern church building: it satisfies the minimal requirements, but we should expect better.

    So yes, John Paul II is a saint, along with 81 other popes. His claim to be “THE GREAT” comes only from people like Philip, and I’m sorry, but that’s an extreme case of grade inflation. Can you HONESTLY imagine either Gregory the Great or Leo the Great kissing the Koran? Of course not! That, by the way, was a serious scandal in the proper sense of the word — maybe not for you or for me, but for Christians in the Middle East who have to pay a real price for rejecting the Koran in favor of the Gospel. John Paul II is a saint, but he made too many serious errors of judgment to be one of the handful called “the Great”.

  • I’m afraid I can’t agree that it was properly scandal, because kissing a book isn’t an inherent evil– a really, incredibly bad idea, on par with the current Pope letting word get out that he doesn’t wear a bulletproof vest, I’d say– and there are reasonable possibilities for why he’d do a morally neutral thing for good, such as signaling “we are not your enemy.” (Jimmy Akin has it broken down rather nicely here: http://jimmyakin.com/2006/04/jp2_and_the_qur.html )
    ********
    Can you HONESTLY imagine either Gregory the Great or Leo the Great kissing the Koran?
    *Sad smile* Because of the state of the Church in America, I have only heard of those guys from my own reading. And not deeply.
    I can no more form a reasonable image of what they would or wouldn’t do than fly to the moon.
    One thing he did do was encourage young people, and faith-sharing that spawned EWTN and eventually sites like this very blog.
    And that is the only reason I’ve even brushed the robe’s hem for this stuff, why I heard of Bishop Sheen, why a dozen other things. Him standing up to the Evil Empire made my husband willing to listen, and brought him back to the Church that those following the old ways just sort of…dropped him out of.
    Just because it’s been a thousand years since a saint started being called “The Great” doesn’t invalidate the existing swell of general acclaim. Give it a few centuries, we’ll see if it sticks or not.

  • As for those who make a big deal out of the Saintly Pope kissing the Koran; Matthew 15:8-9: “These people honor me with there lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.”

    Don’t kiss the Koran!

    Oooohhh noooooo.

    Prayers for this current pontiff are being said, over and over and over……
    I’ll keep at it. Hope you will too.

  • Foxifier : “Just because it’s been a thousand years since a saint started being called “The Great” doesn’t invalidate the existing swell of general acclaim. Give it a few centuries, we’ll see if it sticks or not.”
    .
    There will be no few more centuries!
    People are out there – DEMANDING IN PUBLIC – to have sex with people of the same gender, just as they did at Sodomy.
    Read the signs of the times.
    http://popeleo13.com/pope/2014/11/14/category-archive-message-board-175-jesus-end-time-hints/
    http://popeleo13.com/pope/2014/12/29/category-archive-message-board-214-acceptable-year-of-the-lord/

  • There will be no few more centuries!
    People are out there – DEMANDING IN PUBLIC – to have sex with people of the same gender, just as they did at Sodom and Gomorrah.
    Read the signs of the times.
    http://popeleo13.com/pope/2014/11/14/category-archive-message-board-175-jesus-end-time-hints/
    http://popeleo13.com/pope/2014/12/29/category-archive-message-board-214-acceptable-year-of-the-lord/

  • To allude to a great man, what part of you shall not know the time was unclear? The apostles knew it could happen Any Day Now– but you think some guy on a message board is going to get the REAL scoop?
    And that’s before the issue at sodomy is, sadly, pretty normal– how did you manage to escape the scandal of one of our servicemen being discharged because he stopped the rape of a boy, which is ‘normal’ in many middle eastern cultures, cultures world wide? Sexual perversion is only so obvious here because we are the beneficiaries of centuries of Christian philosophy.
    The guys we’re fighting will slaughter those accused of being homosexuals, but still rape boys. A similar dynamic shows up in jails, where penetrating another man is not the same as being a ‘catcher.’

  • cpola… soothsayer.

    We have no positive way to know that; “There will be no few more centuries.”

    Will a nation be chastised for it’s National sins? Yes. Will it be within this century? Guessing Yes!

    Will the chastisement fall on a once Christian Nation that honored God by honoring the Son and Holy Spirit together? Three in one? Probably!

    The guess that we will not have centuries left is just a guess. A better assessment is that it will be America that becomes the example.
    Just as the chosen people were made an example of. The Church will take a beating but as long as it’s Christ’s Holy Church and as long as it takes for souls to be ready for His harvest, then the world as we know it will cease to exist.

    I hope your call to all faithful Catholic’s will help in gaining souls to Christ, and fill his barns. I hope it doesn’t discourage souls from joining the Church because it’s leadership is flawed and has been stained since V2, possibly changing the minds of thirsty souls, changing the direction of finding the living Waters in the Holy Catholic Church, but now doubting the well since your opinion is less than favorable of the Popes since V2.

    I take great relief in knowing that St. Pope John Paul the Great was without a doubt a prayerful and honest man. A man. Flawed and sinful but forgiven and merciful. A practitioner of Holy Catholic Church. A seminarian studying in clandestine times.
    Threatened by two of the worse regime’s ever to come to existence on this earth. Nazism and Communism. He survived both.
    He helped to collapse the latter, and was in a work camp of the former. He lived it.
    He is great because God worked through him as a humble oppressed pole that had Great Faith. Great faith. Can that be disputed?
    Sure……some will, but they do not know the man.

    Peace to you cpola.
    Peace.

  • People are out there – DEMANDING IN PUBLIC – to have sex with people of the same gender, just as they did at Sodom and Gomorrah.
    .
    The operative phrase: DEMANDING IN PUBLIC, Again: DEMANDING IN PUBLIC !
    .
    Give me a precedent in the history of humanity and then we can talk.

  • Give me a precedent in the history of humanity and then we can talk.

    Cpola, MY knowledge of history can come up with some, and I’m publicly educated!
    For heaven’s sake, the Romans and Greeks!

    You know, the ones that were around at that time? And in the area? And so public about it that there are surviving philosophical debates on if a woman is able to be companion the way a boy-toy would be, as well as procreation?

  • Here’s Plato on the subject:
    All the gods ought to have praise given to them, but not without distinction of their natures; and therefore I must try to distinguish the characters of the two Loves. Now actions vary according to the manner of their performance. Take, for example, that which we are now doing, drinking, singing and talking—these actions are not in themselves either good or evil, but they turn out in this or that way according to the mode of performing them; and when well done they are good, and when wrongly done they are evil; and in like manner not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise. The Love who is the offspring of the common Aphrodite is essentially common, and has no discrimination, being such as the meaner sort of men feel, and is apt to be of women as well as of youths, and is of the body rather than of the soul—the most foolish beings are the objects of this love which desires only to gain an end, but never thinks of accomplishing the end nobly, and therefore does good and evil quite indiscriminately. The goddess who is his mother is far younger than the other, and she was born of the union of the male and female, and partakes of both. But the offspring of the heavenly Aphrodite is derived from a mother in whose birth the female has no part,—she is from the male only; this is that love which is of youths, and the goddess being older, there is nothing of wantonness in her. Those who are inspired by this love turn to the male, and delight in him who is the more valiant and intelligent nature; any one may recognise the pure enthusiasts in the very character of their attachments. For they love not boys, but intelligent beings whose reason is beginning to be developed, much about the time at which their beards begin to grow. And in choosing young men to be their companions, they mean to be faithful to them, and pass their whole life in company with them, not to take them in their inexperience, and deceive them, and play the fool with them, or run away from one to another of them. But the love of young boys should be forbidden by law, because their future is uncertain; they may turn out good or bad, either in body or soul, and much noble enthusiasm may be thrown away upon them; in this matter the good are a law to themselves, and the coarser sort of lovers ought to be restrained by force; as we restrain or attempt to restrain them from fixing their affections on women of free birth. These are the persons who bring a reproach on love; and some have been led to deny the lawfulness of such attachments because they see the impropriety and evil of them; for surely nothing that is decorously and lawfully done can justly be censured. Now here and in Lacedaemon the rules about love are perplexing, but in most cities they are simple and easily intelligible; in Elis and Boeotia, and in countries having no gifts of eloquence, they are very straightforward; the law is simply in favour of these connexions, and no one, whether young or old, has anything to say to their discredit; the reason being, as I suppose, that they are men of few words in those parts, and therefore the lovers do not like the trouble of pleading their suit. In Ionia and other places, and generally in countries which are subject to the barbarians, the custom is held to be dishonourable; loves of youths share the evil repute in which philosophy and gymnastics are held, because they are inimical to tyranny; for the interests of rulers require that their subjects should be poor in spirit (compare Arist. Politics), and that there should be no strong bond of friendship or society among them, which love, above all other motives, is likely to inspire, as our Athenian tyrants learned by experience; for the love of Aristogeiton and the constancy of Harmodius had a strength which undid their power. And, therefore, the ill-repute into which these attachments have fallen is to be ascribed to the evil condition of those who make them to be ill-reputed; that is to say, to the self-seeking of the governors and the cowardice of the governed; on the other hand, the indiscriminate honour which is given to them in some countries is attributable to the laziness of those who hold this opinion of them. In our own country a far better principle prevails, but, as I was saying, the explanation of it is rather perplexing. For, observe that open loves are held to be more honourable than secret ones, and that the love of the noblest and highest, even if their persons are less beautiful than others, is especially honourable. Consider, too, how great is the encouragement which all the world gives to the lover; neither is he supposed to be doing anything dishonourable; but if he succeeds he is praised, and if he fail he is blamed.
    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1600/1600-h/1600-h.htm

  • By his reasoning, not only is homosexuality just fine and dandy, it’s superior.

    Several hundred years before Jesus.

  • Howard, my understanding is popes are entitled ‘ great’ , not because they did not make errors like Assissi , Pray for John the Baptist to Protect that abomination of desolation Islam things that you i and many others who are by definition their lessers, think are errors,’
    but Great because of their outstanding achievements and their lives of ‘ heroic’ virtue. Leo, Gregory, not Peter ……… I’ll leave it to higher pay grades to decide if JPII is a great or not- my dad suffered terribly under Jp’s weakness in making the Ancient Mass readily, easily available.

  • Foxifier, that was Plato philosophizing.
    But I am talking about the precedent of a society of men demanding the right to have sex with people of the same gender in the context of other members of the society frowning at such acts as evil.
    Not only do these people demand to have sex with persons of the same gender but they seek to lawfully and legally sanction those who reject or are opposed to such evil acts.
    Now give me a precedent.
    Otherwise what is happening now in our present world is the sign of the End-Time prophesied 2000 years ago by Our Lord Jesus.
    And remember that this phenomenon is now on a global scale not just in one or two small parts of the globe.
    In otherwords homosexuality (Sodomy) is to ancient Greece what cannibalism is to Papua New Guinea. But thanks be to God that cannibalism is not yet a phenomenon being DEMANDED IN PUBLIC by large swathes of humanity.

  • 76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal

    If locust was substituted for homosexuality, I’d say the days are shortening. The feeling that this plague is unstoppable. One thing.
    God hasn’t given up on man…..yet.

  • “But I am talking about the precedent of a society of men demanding the right to have sex with people of the same gender in the context of other members of the society frowning at such acts as evil.”

    Among aristocratic Greeks it was expected in most city states that a nobleman would have another nobleman, a teenager, as a lover. The Sacred Band military unit of Thebes was made up of such pairs. Lower class Greeks did not engage in such conduct and apparently made jokes about it. Men who engaged in such conduct would go on and get married and raise families. The Greeks had no concept of homosexuals as a separate class. Sodomy between two adult males was looked down upon by the Greeks. Male prostitutes were a feature of some ancient pagan temples and bordellos, as there is nothing new under the sun regarding sexual perversion.

    Pederasty in ancient Greece overall seems similar to that in prison today. Where women are absent, and among aristocratic families in Greece women were highly sheltered and men did not marry until their thirties, some men will look to each other. Some Greeks viewed the whole business as distasteful while others, including Plato attempted to elevate the business as superior to male women love. There was a fair amount of snobbishness in this, that pederasty could be looked upon as one more means by which aristocrats could separate themselves from the common herd. The Romans took all this as yet another sign that the Greeks were hopelessly decadent, although some of their aristocrats engaged in the vice.

    Of course to the Jews this was all an abomination and we see some of their typical outrage in what Saint Paul has to say on the subject.

  • Pingback: Did We Betray St. John XXIII’s Vision for Vatican II, Ready to Stand Before Him, and More! | The Guadalupe Radio Network

Papal Errors

Thursday, December 3, AD 2015

of the past.

I found it really interesting; some examples are this:

Pope Benedict IX (1032-44; 1045; 1047-8): Benedict IX was elected through bribes paid by his father. Kelly tells us that “his personal life, even allowing for exaggerated reports, was scandalously violent and dissolute.” The Catholic Encyclopedia judges: “He was a disgrace to the Chair of Peter.”

and

Pope Leo X (1513-21): Leo X is the pope who is famously said to have remarked: “Let us enjoy the papacy since God has given it to us.” Says the Catholic Encyclopedia:

[T]he phrase illustrates fairly the pope’s pleasure-loving nature and the lack of seriousness that characterized him. He paid no attention to the dangers threatening the papacy, and gave himself up unrestrainedly to amusements, that were provided in lavish abundance. He was possessed by an insatiable love of pleasure, that distinctive trait of his family. Music, the theatre, art, and poetry appealed to him as to any pampered worldling.

I do think it opens a bit weak, since Peter wasn’t the Pope before Christ was even crucified… but it’s justifiable.

Continue reading...

The Church in the World

Saturday, November 21, AD 2015

During the debates leading up to the 1983 pastoral letter of the bishops of the United States on nuclear weapons, “The Challenge of Peace,” the great churchman Archbishop Philip Hannan of New Orleans said that many of the bishops were uninformed. I paraphrase, because the archbishop himself used much more colorful language, honed by years of working with the 82nd Airborne Division during World War II.

The Plot to Kill Hitler and the Vindication of Pius XII, Crisis Magazine

The article gets better from there.

Continue reading...

9 Responses to The Church in the World

  • I’m guessing it’s still wrong to send a T-100 back to 1888 to kill Klara and the T-1000 back to 1902 to kill her son Adolf?

  • The good Archbishop of New Orleans was, if memory serves, the only bishop who thought the bisops’ pastoral letter wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. That was over 30 years ago.

    We all need to learn the Faith. There are lots of good websites and lots of good books. The Church did not begin with Vatican II and the sometimes bland and sometimes dopey documents. We all ought to know when the bishops are acting as political blowhards and tune them out when they do.

  • Father Tom told us in his sermon that the Faith should shape the World, not the opposite. Liberal catholics feverishly work to subvert the Faith to their sick world views.

  • PF–
    and how many of those guys are still here?

    Thirty years IS a long time….for people, less for culture, at least in these days. We’re going to have to wait for the folks who got bit by “the spirit of Vatican II” to get up there in age. I’d guess the oldest are…what… 50? My mom’s family was influenced by it, but things hadn’t shaken out enough, and the folks who left over the entire thing provided an excuse.
    Their kids will have to become the priests in charge before there’s much of a change.
    ************
    Donald– wow.
    I can see why the bishops may have been a bit…um… less than rational. That would be an impressive biography to “challenge,” and people are people.

  • More like the oldest are collecting social security, since the “spirit” went forth before the documents were ratified.

  • Of the various comments to Father Rutlers article, this is my favorite:

    Eamonn McKeown • 4 days ago

    Yet Jeb Bush finds it necessary to answer yet another dull question – would you kill baby Hitler? My answer would be a question to anyone in the media that asked, first trimester or second trimester?

  • It’s not enough to have been around when the ideas started coming around– you have to be from one of the folks stuck with the bill.

  • Too many bishops in the US found it more fun to snark at President Reagan rather than attend to the basics of their jobs.

Horror Movies Redone With Kittens

Saturday, October 31, AD 2015

A cute PSA from ASPCA; it features The Purring (1980), The Texas Chainpaw Meowsacre (1974), Psycat(1960) and Cattie (1976).  (Only possibly nasty part is the paper cutout of the mask for the second one– my preschooler didn’t have an issue with any of it, so probably only disturbing if you know what it’s supposed to be.)

Continue reading...

5 Responses to Horror Movies Redone With Kittens

Halloween Articles

Thursday, October 29, AD 2015

It’s a little late, but there have been several rather good blog-articles about Halloween not being evil and nasty and a thing unsuited for polite company this year.

SuburbanBanshee did a Christian Halloween FAQ that I found very amusing, focusing on variations on the pagan issue.

Father Augustine Thompson did one with a really nice focus on the early years called The Catholic Origins of Halloween, which is more history-aimed. (names, dates, that kind of thing)

Mrs. Hull did a more heavy, serious one on the Catholic Origins of Halloween, which is more tradition-aimed.

Bridget Jones did a nice, light one called Don’t Be Spooked, it’s Catholic.

I did a rather scattershot one that includes debunking claims about black cats being killed on the Pope’s orders.

And now I need to go finish my kids’ costumes.  They’re all embodying virtues… in the form of pop culture characters they love.

(Kindness, generosity and bravery.)

Continue reading...

3 Responses to Halloween Articles

Sir Terry Pratchett Dead

Thursday, March 12, AD 2015

Died at home, surrounded by family, with his cat on his lap.

No other details available; Otherwhere Gazette will add them as they become available.

Much loved for being intelligent and honest enough to come around to the truth from entirely the wrong direction– I don’t know about anybody else, but trying to figure out how that could possibly happen was one of the ways I found out about “natural law philosophy.”  Even someone who stared with some really bad assumptions will, in some cases, come around to the truth as a matter of course if they just keep going.

Continue reading...

The Danger of Nice

Saturday, March 7, AD 2015

This has been on my mind of late because of the kerfluffle about common core and fact vs opinion, so republishing it from Catholic Stand.

“Be nice.” “That’s not nice.” “Wouldn’t it be nice if people would just get along?”

Nice is almost as hard to define as the notoriously subjective “fair,” but I’m starting to think it’s far more dangerous.  ‘Nice’ is applied to a standard of behavior that does not raise objection among those who are around to be offended; ‘nice’ is a sort of vague version of ‘polite,’ centered around everyone feeling good.

Most obviously, I’m sure anybody that’s stumbled on to this site has at least heard someone say “I’m not very religious, but I try to be a nice person– and that’s what’s really important, isn’t it?” Those of us who have argued theology have almost surely heard “Well, we disagree about that– but we agree that people should just be nice to each other, and that’s the important thing.”

Continue reading...

25 Responses to The Danger of Nice

  • Excellent post.
    .
    NICE
    .
    Neurotic
    Insecure
    Cantankerous
    Emotional
    .
    God save me from being NICE.

  • How some words change over time.
    Nice is an amelioration it seems.
    Latin: nescius meaning ignorant.
    Old English nice was know as being foolish and silly.

    So fitting though.

    I love this quote because its dead on; “In the absence of faith we govern by nice.” Thanks Foxfier. It’s so true!

  • Thanks Foxfier – great post.

    Much food for thought – I can feel a homily coming on 🙂

  • Phillip

    “Nescius” in Latin can sometimes refer to affected ignorance and so mean something like reticent or coy. One can see how this could evolve into “unwilling to give offence.”

  • MPS.

    Unwilling to give offence. Yes. I could see how that meaning transpired into todays nice. Thank you.

    are you ready…”Have a nice day.”
    Truly. Take care. 🙂

  • Abortion is quite a relevant issue regarding “nice” and I will try not to judge women who have terminated. My big problem with many anti abortion groups is that they don’t speak enough about terminating unborn babies due to detected disabilities. As someone pro life I believe in disabled individuals having a right to live and be born. The problem is progress has allowed for discrimination of those who are not as contributing to economic progress. As Catholic’s we need to fight more for the needs of the disabled, who are often victims of many cutbacks.

  • I would agree with everything that’s been said here with one caveat. There are now many, particularly on the internet, who seem to believe that not being “nice” in this sense means throwing good manners out the window and grants a license to be perpetually insulting, cynical and rude. Yes, there are times when we have to call a spade a spade and not be “inoffensive,” but let’s not go off the deep end in the other direction and use it as an excuse to dispense with ordinary courtesy. I know that the term “civility” has been frequently abused of late, but there is a place for it.

  • St. Augustine from The City of God, “What is reprehensible is that, while leading good lives themselves and abhorring those of wicked men, some fearing to offend shut their eyes to evil deeds instead of condemning them and pointing out their malice. To be sure, the motive behind their tolerance is that they may suffer no hurt in the possession of those temporal goods which virtuous and blameless men may lawfully enjoy; still, there is more self-seeking here than becomes men who are mere sojourners in this world and who profess hope of a home in heaven.”
    Amen.

  • While it is true many people get more offended by swear words than wars or famine, I still find little excuse for rudeness. Living in England I have noticed a rise of celebrity rudeness and bullying on television. There is a difference between Assertiveness and Aggressiveness and good manners costs no money. Being nice and displaying good manners is I feel a duty of all faiths.

  • James Charles: “As someone pro life I believe in disabled individuals having a right to live and be born. The problem is progress has allowed for discrimination of those who are not as contributing to economic progress. As Catholic’s we need to fight more for the needs of the disabled, who are often victims of many cutbacks. ”
    .
    Every human being created has an immortal, rational human soul. Murdering an human being scandalizes his soul as he is murdered. Satan relishes getting his claws into any human soul.
    .
    Therefore, it is incumbent upon the state to protect and provide for the reality of realities, the human being, body and soul and not to do so is evil.

  • Only prayer and fasting will bring the grace to deal with bullying, rudeness and the corrupt form of NICE.

  • The You Tube video part way down the page at the following web link shows how nice the left wing anti-nuclear agitators are:
    .
    http://atomicinsights.com/agencies-should-not-allow-creation-of-a-hostile-environment-at-public-meetings/
    .
    This is NORMAL for public meetings arranged by the US NRC. The govt of Barack Hussein Obama encourages this sort of thing: Occupy Wall Street, Ferguson Race Riots, etc.
    .
    Some might say that this comment has little to do with this blog post, but the example cited here in this comment is one of many that shows the barbarism into which this country is descending. Consider: a 60+ year old woman who is pro-nuclear power who attended that meeting about the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant was openly and publicly threatened by the anti-nuclear agitators, and neither the US NRC representatives nor the locally constabulary charged with maintaining public order at the meeting did anything to reign in the outrageous antics of these hyenas and jackals. This is NICE in its truest form: the acting out from ignorance – nescius. And our govt officials do NOTHING to stop it and everything to encourage ti.

  • Paul: “This is NORMAL for public meetings arranged by the US NRC. The govt of Barack Hussein Obama encourages this sort of thing: Occupy Wall Street, Ferguson Race Riots, etc.”
    .
    Divide and conquer. Create a chaos and a smoke screen for evil and enjoy license.

  • Elaine-
    I didn’t say a blessed thing about being not-nice as an acceptable goal.
    In fact, you might want to check out paragraph 4 and on.

  • Mary De Voe “Every human being created has an immortal, rational human soul. Murdering an human being scandalizes his soul as he is murdered. Satan relishes getting his claws into any human soul”.

    What you say makes sense and I would consider most cases of the death penalty and war as murder. Especially when many wars has been a fight for resources like oil. My concerns for abortion include the many women who are forced to terminate against their wishes. Countries like China have high abortion levels and many women around the world are forced to terminate their babies due to being female.

  • “Many wars have been a fight for resources like oil…”
    .
    Not true in the case of US involvement in the Middle East. We get the majority of our oil indigenously or from Canada.
    .
    But if it were true, then would you support replacing reliance on fossil fuel with reliance on nuclear energy, by means of which we can via the Fischer-Tropsch process use nuclear steam heat to convert our vast coal reserves into liquid hydrocarbon fuel?

  • What you say makes sense and I would consider most cases of the death penalty and war as murder.

    Based on what?

  • To love one’s neighbor includes correcting him. But that’s something that has to be done politely. I’ve heard a lot of conversion stories over the years, but I’ve never heard one that was instigated by being yelled at. We look to Jesus as an example – but Jesus knew what was in people’s hearts, and knew when to yell and when to bond. With the woman at the well, he was firm but compassionate. The fact is, we’re an increasingly rude society, and that’s infected the way we approach the faith. Most of the people I know who talk about the need to avoid niceness are also rude. The internet encourages rudeness. We have got to keep a close eye on our tendency to belligerence.

  • Most of the people I know who talk about the need to avoid niceness are also rude.

    Could you please confront them, instead of dragging it in to a post about the problems with “be nice”?
    As you point out, there’s a need to correct people– choosing to take a post that is about what’s wrong with conflating “nice” with “loving” and drag in an entirely different animal of “so make very sure that you actively avoid being nice” to fight is not helping anybody, except for possibly the folks arguing for the “make sure you’re not mistaken for being nice” folks.
    *****
    We look to Jesus as an example – but Jesus knew what was in people’s hearts, and knew when to yell and when to bond.
    Jesus also showed a pattern of not using the advantages He had, instead choosing to act out what should be done– for example, being baptized, where it’s even flatly stated that He’s doing it so we’ll have a clue.
    *****
    I’ve heard a lot of conversion stories over the years, but I’ve never heard one that was instigated by being yelled at.
    I have.
    You think the 60s style protesters chose the “be incredibly rude” tactic only because it’s emotionally appealing to the person using it? It works.
    .
    Kind of like how “being nice” isn’t a one-size-fits-all, flipping tables and chasing people with whips isn’t a one-size-fits-all– even though it might be emotionally satisfying. You’re less likely to find it being effective in person because most times you test it, it’s already been used, and there’s a good chance that the person you’re testing it on actually enjoys making you angry.

  • “I’ve heard a lot of conversion stories over the years, but I’ve never heard one that was instigated by being yelled at.”
    How about being thrown through a screen door? My paternal grandfather was a saintly man by the time I came along, but that had not always been the case. He liked to drink when younger and when he drank he was a mean drunk. One day he was chasing my grandmother, and if any goodness was lacking in this world before her birth, my grandmother filled that lack, around the kitchen table with a butcher knife. My Dad, and the first time I ever saw my father weep was when his father died, tossed him through a screen door to stop him. My father then went down town and enlisted in the Air Force. After he finished basic he received a letter from his father asking him to come home for Christmas. He told my Dad, accurately, that he had not touched a drop of liquor since the day he was tossed through the screen door. He was a total abstainer for the rest of his life and it had a remarkably positive impact on his character. I would not recommend the solution of tossing someone through a screen door to rectify bad behavior, but it certainly worked in the case my grandfather.

  • Thank you, Donald. Great response about the efficacy of being yelled at (or thrown through a screen door). When I was new in a 12 step program and before my introduction into RCIA, I was routinely “yelled” at by my mentor or sponsor. His sponsor – a saintly Franciscan priest – always seemed to be standing behind him when I was getting my hind end handed to me, and he always had this beatific smile on his face. He later gave me RCIA instruction and heard my first confession.
    .
    Oh what sensitive feelings we have! We didn’t give a darn about whom we hurt or what lives we tried to destroy when we were out there carousing and having fun. But then we decide that all that fun isn’t as painless and misery free as we once thought, and we get religion and we want people to be nice to us, and kind and gentle and tolerant and non-divisive. I thank God that my sponsor and my first Confessor were anything but that for otherwise I would have died with a heroin needle in my veins.
    .
    Yeah, I know I shouldn’t talk about those things in a public forum but sometimes the truth has to be told.

  • “Most of the people I know who talk about the need to avoid niceness are also rude.”
    “Could you please confront them, instead of dragging it in to a post about the problems with “be nice”?”

    Virtue is typically found in the mean. I can’t think of a better place to talk about avoiding rudeness than on a thread about avoiding misplaced politeness. There’s a danger of an either/or mentality about it.

    I’ve said this before on this site, but one thing struck me when reading the lives of various saints, how nice so many of them were. I used to think about the old doctrinaire guys, the Dominic’s and the Francis de Sales’s, as being strict and militant. When I actually read about them, though, they turned out to be genuine, decent people I’d want to spend time with. That’s maybe what I’m talking about here: the value of likeability. It’s very hard to convert someone if they don’t like you.

  • Maybe I’m responding more to the provocative title than the content of the article.

  • I can’t think of a better place to talk about avoiding rudeness than on a thread about avoiding misplaced politeness.
    Then perhaps you should find one?
    Rather than responding to your impulsive reaction to the title, and ignoring the point: “in the absence of faith, we govern by nice. And ‘nice’ leads to the gas chamber.”
    The irony of defending “nice” by being so rude as to ignore both the article and the several specific responses to your only-vaguely-related comments is kind of thick.

  • A question I have been thinking about today– Just how do you convert a heterodox modernist priest so that he quits misleading people you like. I would like to be nice But also effective.
    If I could I would throw him through a screen door! but It’s true that It’s “very hard to convert someone if they don’t like you.” I would probably end up “nescius” (Michael P-S) or coy or disingenuous.