A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill
Since the end of World War II the American taxpayer has been bearing the burden of defending Western Europe, while the Western Europeans have built extensive welfare states. The holiday from History of the Western Europeans is now over.
Europe: “I’d love to step up … right after my 6-week paid vacation”
The European view of defense mirrors the common liberal refrain here about self-defense with regard to the police – “I’ll just call 911, they’ll defend me!”
Attempting to explain how that doesn’t work when you live in an unincorporated town 12 miles from the sheriff’s office always falls on deaf ears.
Time for Europe to step up and take care of itself.
Devoting 2.5% of your GDP to military spending would be adequate for the time being in Europe. The reason to ramp up is China.
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The problem the occidental world is facing (and the industrial orient in spades) is demographic. People are having an insufficient number of children and this has been an issue for about 50 years now. That has multifarious ill-effects, staffing the military being just one.
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In re the Ukraine, Russia has been able to conquer one of twenty-five regions and a portion of five others. This against a country which has about 10% of Russia’s productive capacity. The threat to Europe as a whole from Russia is in the Keynesian long run. Small countries like Georgia and Estonia are in danger.
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I do wonder what is the distribution of revanchist Russian nationalist sentiment among demographic segments in Russia. I used to be a lurker on a Russian nationalist board which conducted discussion in English. The moderator was a man of about 35 who had returned to Russia after 25 years living in the west. Their mentality in re the Ukraine was that of a stalker ex-boyfriend.
Spitballing some numbers on a spreadsheet, their percentage of military personnel is comparable to what the US would have, if it weren’t for the Southeast states. (Note:referring to state of origin, not where currently stationed)
“Devoting 2.5% of your GDP to military spending would be adequate for the time being in Europe. The reason to ramp up is China”
Ofcourse and agree. However in comparison, the AUKUS deal is $358bill which in the long run is only 0.15% of Australia’s GDP to ensure security from China direct threat in the region. That’s nothing, yet you have liberals complaining in our neck of the woods that’s it’s $368billion too much.
2.5% of US GDP is significantly higher but the cost outweighs the benefit. The US has the option to withdraw money without risking any imminent or direct threat to US national security. The fact that Ukraine is insisting on the funds is ridiculous. The methods Zelensky is going about it is even more ridiculous. No company budget is going to just keep writing cheques if there is no return on investment. That’s not how it works. Zelensky doesn’t get it.
NATO has been useless in this whole exercise and, the fact that the US got involved just shows you how useless NATO is.
US beyond its NATO membership. The setup would not survive without heavy military involvement.
Europe: “I’d love to step up … right after my 6-week paid vacation”
Have you been to Europe? Just curious. Not everyone in Europe is lazy as your comment implies.
Lazy no. Militarily unprepared yes. Britain for example could muster only 25 main battle tanks and the last time they had an army as small as they do now, George III, of 1776 infamy, sat on the throne.
Britain isn’t Europe. Britain to their credit has given $16 billion to Ukraine so far and Zelensky is currently hustling for more. Europe has contributed a combined amount of close to $113billion. Compared to $120 billion given by the US. Given, the British army is small in manpower and weapon’s. Its strength lies in its intelligence and the economy. I given its rubbish leadership it managed to holds itself in that region because of its strength.
“Lazy no. Militarily unprepared yes.”
Exactly. Europe’s prosperity comes, in large part, from the U.S. footing a huge portion of their defense budget.
Once again, some pecking ducks assume the worst, and assume incorrectly. 🙂
Exactly. Europe’s prosperity comes, in large part, from the U.S. footing a huge portion of their defense budget.
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Oh, for crying out loud. Europe’s prosperity is not contingent on spending 2% of their collective GDP on the military as opposed to 4%.
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Their fertility is deficient, they retire too early, labor mobilization is inhibited by poorly conceived regulation; their housing markets are often a mess due to the regulatory state and the (quite unnecessary) assumption of the function of housing provision by public agencies, they import masses of foreigners who have no affection for them, they ply these foreigners with ill-considered welfare benefits, they have weak policing and penal systems (in re these foreigners and others), and they’ve stripped the general public of much of their freedom of contract and freedom of association. If these problems sound familiar it is because they are issues in North America as well (to one degree or another).
“Europe’s prosperity is not contingent on spending 2% of their collective GDP on the military as opposed to 4%.”
When you can point to the word ‘contingent’ in my post, I’ll concede the point. Until then, my opinion remains that not having to fund a military in most of the time since WWII most certainly gave them an advantage.
Of course, the economic concessions the U.S. gave them didn’t hurt either.
“ Exactly. Europe’s prosperity comes, in large part, from the U.S. footing a huge portion of their defense budget.”
But that’s not what you said.
You said: “Europe: “I’d love to step up … right after my 6-week paid vacation””
Go back and re-read what you said. Peck and run won’t work. Own your comments.
“not having to fund a military in most of the time since WWII most certainly gave them an advantage.”
Oh come on, you’re making up stuff now… not only is Europe on a 6 week vacation and don’t “step-up”…according to you they have now had an “advantage” since WW2…that’s completely baseless and not true.
Half of Europe was under Communist rule from 1947-1989. That’s 50% of Europe…That’s over 4 decades of a hand controlling its military, economy, politics, social structure… In no uncertain terms is being controlled by a communist over-power for 4 decades ever been an “advantage”.
Let’s look at an example of one of these former communist countries…Between January 24, 2022 and December 31, 2024 Croatia gave 0.53% of GDP of direct bilateral aide to Ukraine. The US gave the exact same 0.53% of their GDP in the same period. US aid was larger because GDP is larger. That’s the math. Croatia lost 25% of its economy and suffered $37 billion in damaged infrastructure in the Balkan war in the 90’s. 20,000 of their countrymen died, over 380,000 left with no homes from a population of only 4.7 million That wasn’t that long ago. Croatia didn’t just fund a military, they funded their own war…And yet they still went on to contribute the same % of bilateral aide to the Ukraine War as a superpower a few decades later, over the same period as the US. AND…Over the same period- Estonia has given 2.2% of GDP, Lithuania 1.8%, Latvia 1.53%…these are the top contributors to Ukraine war % of GDP over the same period, and ALL were formerly part of the old Soviet Union.
If you want to criticise Europe as a collective, for its immigration policies then I’m right with you, because Europe in reality has failed. That’s why I asked if you ever visited Europe…it’s clear where Europe has fallen short by looking at its current demographics.
But you can’t be making general claims about an entire continent security efforts that have no basis in reality.
most certainly gave them an advantage.
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a minor one.
“You said: “Europe: “I’d love to step up … right after my 6-week paid vacation””
Go back and re-read what you said. Peck and run won’t work. Own your comments.”
Ezabelle … Increased prosperity = bigger profits which leads to better working conditions and, therefore longer vacations.
You accused me of calling all Europeans lazy. I didn’t. You know it. You just attributed the worst intentions to me that you could think of. That is terribly uncharitable of you. And it’s not the first time.
“You accused me of calling all Europeans lazy.” Yes I did. Because you did. And didn’t explain otherwise.
You called me a pecking duck. How charitable of you. That’s ok I’m not offended. It’s water off my back.