Burn of the Day

Francis is like a wasp— he can sting even after he’s dead.

As for the wretched Bishop of Charlotte, I will only say that while I would kiss his ring, I’d never shake his hand. He might be a bishop, but he’s no man at all.

I believe his predecessor, Bishop Jugis, was a wonderful bishop. Too bad Francis prioritizes ideology over sanctity.

Bruised, you would.. I would.. but manly testicular attitudes were carefully deselected in the seminary -for the most part.

Obedience.

Compliance with an order, request, or law or submission to another’s authority:
“children were taught to show their parents obedience.”

Perspective.
As much I favor the TLM as my favorite Mass, I would favor the disipline of obedience over disobeying the Bishop.

Why?
Loss of merit.

Both the Ordo and TLM are valid.
My personal belief is that the TLM fosters more vocations to the priesthood.

Is being disobedient to the Bishop God’s will for you?

Is God telling you that the Ordo is no longer valid, or never should of been introduced into His Holy Catholic Church? I’ve witnessed such men leave the feast because of pride.
Walk away from the Holy Church because of the Church being in “grave error” and they, not the magisterium, have a better grip on what is Gods will.

Bastards? Cruel Bastards?

I don’t know.
Maybe he is.

I just know that in a flash of an eye something that I might do or say could draw the same condemnation upon me.

I’m going to try very hard on watching my step and less on others.

[I should call it PhilWatch.]

Sufficient fortitude could be choosing obedience v. retaliation on a superior whom you disagree with.

“Bishop Martin should be well acquainted with what’s going on and why. He could as easily have chosen to wait, see what Pope Leo considers ought be done.”

Unless he has no intention of doing what Leo wants. Do and ask forgiveness later. And then delay implementation of Leo’s will.

I agree. Priests should ignore the order. The order has as much value as the paper it was written on.

@ John Falherty.

This is dated, but I believe it might help with your concerns. I hope it helps.
The salvation of souls is the churches main goal. May God help us discern what it means to assist Holy Catholic Church save souls, ours and our families included.

http://the-pope.com/jurisdcc.html

There’s a Byzantine church in Charlotte; the Byzantine divine liturgy is quite beautiful … Licit sacraments in communion with Rome.

I’d go there before I’d attend an SSPX chapel.

I’m also sure that the parishes which offered a TLM will have reverent Novus Ordo masses to attend. There won’t be any clown masses at St. Thomas Aquinas, I’m certain. 🙂

Speaking from my own experience, CAG, it’s not that simple.

My parish, which I’d called home for +30 years, had been the home for the local TLM even before Summorum Pontificum . It proved so popular that eventually the Mass schedule had been rearranged to make space for a second Sunday TLM.

While the TLM became my own preferred Sunday Mass, I still helped out with lectoring at the NO Masses, especially the early morning ones which were harder to staff. And there was the K of C, and various other parish groups that I and many other TLM-goers all took part in alongside our NO-attending fellow parishioners. Not to mention contributing a great deal to restorations to our beautiful parish church. Of the seven Sunday Masses (I’m including the Novus Ordo Saturday evening vigil Mass) the two Sunday TLM were packed and regularly accounted for almost 70% of the total Sunday collection.

All of that came to an end a year ago, when at the 7:30 am TLM a letter from the bishop was read out, announcing that in four weeks— mid-Lent— the parish would no longer offer the TLM. So that year there would be no TLM Easter Tridium for us. Unlike the Charlotte diocese, there was no offer of a ramshackle venue for us to move to— even though the diocese has a healthy real estate portfolio. And our parish priests, in subsequent conversations with our local Latin Mass Society (and likely under orders from the bishop) regretfully informed us that even if we were to find a home, their services would not be available.

The bishop closed his letter by announcing that our parish would replace the TLMs with two Novus Ordo Masses conducted in Latin, and invited us to “explore the riches of the Novus Ordo”, and assured us of his pastoral solicitude. He never spoke with us in person, nor has the chancery addressed another word to us since. By the way, several months ago Pope Francis reassigned our bishop to a larger, grander diocese— one which usually results in a red hat for its Ordinary.

As for my fellow parishioners who attend the Novus Ordo, the reactions varied from shrugs and ‘wow, that’s too bad but there’s nothing anyone can do’ to one Susan-from-the-parish council-type who remarked “Finally. Those people have had fifty years to get with the program”. In short, some of my brothers and sisters pitied us, and some were glad to see us dumped, and some just shrugged because it had nothing to do with them.

As for options for myself and the several hundred TLM-goers, our choices for making our Sunday Obligation are as follows:

1. A chapel about an hour away still has the TLM. It’s tiny, the chancery is not going to assign another priest to help, there are no plans to expand the number of Masses offered, and it’s widely acknowledged to be scheduled for closedown soon anyway— probably after we are assigned our new bishop.

2. The SSPX has a priest visit our city twice a month to offer Mass in a local motel conference room.

3. “Explore the riches” of the Latin Novus Ordo Mass at our former parish, and “get with the program”. (And restore some of that 70% of the Sunday collection that was told to get lost).

4. Attend a local Maronite Catholic Church.

5. Attend a local Eastern Orthodox Church.

And that’s it. I’m fearful that some of my fellow TLM-goers are lost and gone forever. Others are selecting from options #1 through #5, as they think best. For all the claims of pastoral concern, neither my former parish nor our former bishop seems to be too concerned which options (if any) we former parishioners might opt for. We are on our own, with shepherds who have washed their hands of us.

And even if The Wonderful happens, and IF our new Pope lifts the injustice of the Jim Crow Traditiones Custodes, and IF a new bishop allows a TLM somewhere, there will remain the knowledge that when the chips were down and TLM-goers were treated badly, neither our shepherds nor our fellow sheep seemed to give a damn. Even in the best circumstances, if my old parish were to reinstate those TLMs, I would hesitate to return. There is just a smoking crater where my trust used to be.

I admit that while that mindset is understandable, it’s not spiritually healthy. And this is where I (and many, many like me) find ourselves today. Reversing Traditiones Custodes, if it happens, will only be a small step towards repairing the wreckage Francis and his accomplices have created.

We also have need to refrain from “rite-shopping”. Seeking the Byzantine rite, an Orthodox church, ..or an SSPX chapel, because we don’t like our local Roman Catholic bishop right now, won’t help us. It won’t help the Church either. I’ve encountered my fair share of those “get with the program” types too. Trouble is, …I’ve encountered such people in both rites. Both forms of the rite. Summorum effectively allowed both rites being offered in a given parish, so two groups of people would tend to develop, one NO, one TLM. It’d be much alike to a parish with two large language groups. One attends English/Latin Mass, the other attends Spanish. ..Or Vietnamese. …and in both cases, nary the twain shall meet.

I think Francis probably saw this and decided it unhealthy for the Church. He wasn’t wrong about that. I think he considered that many (most?) bishops already limited the TLM by various “legitimate” means; he made such efforts official. I could wish he hadn’t required that Vatican officials be arbiters of using “vacant” churches for TLM Masses or not, …yet that’s on his soul, not mine.

I well understand the angst that many traditionalists feel. I wound up moving to a traditional Mass parish myself mostly because I had grown thoroughly annoyed with the average parish. I deemed it unlikely to find another Novus Ordo with traditional and modern norms blended so well. …Witness the Mass my former pastor now offers…. *sigh*
I think we ought remember the Biblical passage about being innocent as doves, yet sly as foxes. Our typical parish may not allow the traditional Mass or other rites. ..Nothing prohibits us from learning about them or watching someone offer it online. ..FSSP has a LiveMass website by which the televise TLM Masses all over the world. ..I believe they do accept contributions for the site’s upkeep…. Nothing can stop anyone from learning to offer a Rosary or Divine Office in Latin. We can encourage each other in faith, so long as we don’t baldly defy our shepherds.

“The bishop closed his letter by announcing that our parish would replace the TLMs with two Novus Ordo Masses conducted in Latin, and invited us to ‘explore the riches of the Novus Ordo'”

I actually like the NO in Latin, especially when done ad orientem. Mystery and accessibility meet.

JF:

We also have need to refrain from “rite-shopping”

Not “rite-shopping” … but seeking reverence. Don’t belittle that.

And don’t be so sure it doesn’t help the Church … The bishop might prioritize the government check over the weekly collection, but that small reverent parish will benefit greatly.

the practice still comes down to shopping for a rite.

No, it really doesn’t. I used to travel exclusively in my line of work, and I sought out the most reverent parishes in the areas where I was working. I wasn’t “rite shopping”, I was, as are most of the people posting here, seeking to worship my God in Catholic locations where Christ in the Eucharist is most reverently adored.

That’s a good thing.

Bishop Sheen had faculties to offer both the Latin Mass and the Byzantine Divine Liturgy. We are allowed, with permission (and that’s mostly because there are usually aspects of the liturgy we would need to be familiarized with. For example, there’s no kneeling on Sunday for the Byzantines) to attend the Eucharistic feast at churches of any rite in communion with Rome. I was under the impression that this was encouraged. One certainly doesn’t have to switch rites to do so.

… I’m not a difficult one to please though, I grew up in Detroit in the 60s/70s, so any NO Mass without interpretive dancing is a step up 😀

Don, if you’d be so kind as to excise the errant screenshot, I would appreciate it. Thank you.