Thursday, March 28, AD 2024 3:12pm

PopeWatch: Gold Watch

When Pope Pius X was canonized in 1954 no Pope had been canonized in the 340 years leading up to death.  Now we have canonizations that are like a gold watch given upon retirement to an employee.  Canonization has become a papal job benefit.  This is sick and it needs to stop.

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Frank
Frank
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 6:42am

Agreed, it needs to stop. In addition to making the Church look ridiculous, (as if we needed more of that), it leads inevitably to questions about whether formal canonizations are infallible. I have read strong arguments each way, all by otherwise credible people, and must admit that I still have no idea what the correct answer is.

Philip Nachazel
Philip Nachazel
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 7:03am

Playing the devil’s advocate here;
St. Pope JPII lead a remarkable and in the view of many, a heroic life.

Divine Mercy promulgation.
His stand against the communist while Bishop, building the Ark Church in the middle of a new labor community.
The fall of the eastern block.
World youth days.
Clandestine studies while under the Nazi regime.

He, in my humble opinion, was fearless.

Not perfect mind you, but worthy of canonization?
Yes. The Nun that played a role in his advancement had Parkinson’s disease, if I remember correctly.
Completely cured through the grace of God.

Pope JP II. A Saint.

Frank
Frank
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 7:12am

Philip, the only post-Conciliar canonization of a Pope that doesn’t give me pause is JP II. Flawed man in some ways, yes, but that’s a fairly old pattern. See, e.g.: St. Peter. 😉 I admit I do have serious doubts concerning the rest of them. But it’s one of the many mysteries about which I hope someday to learn directly from our Lord, in Heaven.

John F. Kennedy
John F. Kennedy
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 8:01am

Let’s see…who canonized them? Has that same person done anything or said anything that flatly contradicts Church teaching? This is only one more example of his nonsense. It also proves that the revised and much simplified process for recognizing a Saint is deeply flawed and now is purely policitical like everything else in the NuChurch and it’s god of Surprises.

Clinton
Clinton
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 8:10am

I suspect there’ll be little interest in canonizing Francis once he’s gone to his reward…

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 11:57am

Agree with St PJP2 canonisation Phillip and Frank. A remarkable Pope whose Faith was lived honestly and heroically. He helped me when I was sick many years ago. I had my last treatment (unplanned) “coincidentally” on his Feast Day October 22nd which always sticks in my mind.
St John 23rd canonisation divides opinions because he began Vatican 2, however by all accounts at he was a Holy man- haven’t read otherwise.

Madgalene
Madgalene
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 12:44pm

Especially Paul VI who at the very least was a very weak pope and that is the kindest things to say about him.

Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 2:32pm

The fawning over JPII is exacty why causes for canonization were delayed until 100 years after death, so that those examining a cause could be objective and emotionally detached from the person in question. The TV gods filled our heads with all kinds of wonderful images, videos set to music, rock star treatment to build up our emotional experience.

At the same time, he was quashing the TLM, establishing false ecumenism resulting in the Assisi scandal which led to Lefebvre and the SSPX. He knew about the child abuse, and his response was…inadequate. He established a new canon law and caetechism that were terrible for the faith and practice thereof, both embarrassingly ambiguous. His TOB is highly questionable.
Did he do good things? Yes. Did he inspire people? Yes. Did he live a life of extraordinary virtue and holiness for someone in his particular state in life (e.g. pope)?

It doesn’t seem like it.

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Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 2:49pm

[…] JPI “THE SMILER” – FAITHLESS JOKEPOPE FRANCIS THE DESTROYER MAKES ALL THE SAINTS LOOK LIKE ‘AIN’TS’ […]

Dale Price
Dale Price
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 3:28pm

Of the bunch, it’s JPI that I have the least objection to.

I love JPII, but the failures of governance doomed us to the pontificate we have now. His slipshod episcopal appointments include all of the major players in Rome, from the pontiff on down.

He was a prophet. But he also needed to be a priest and king, and it was those legacies which undid the first.

Art Deco
Art Deco
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 4:52pm

At the same time, he was quashing the TLM, establishing false ecumenism resulting in the Assisi scandal which led to Lefebvre and the SSPX. He knew about the child abuse, and his response was…inadequate.

He wasn’t. Diocesan bishops were responsible for that. John Paul was glacially slow in providing for more opportunities to hear the traditional right, but he did provide for them. Lefebvre’s society was founded prior to John Paul’s pontificate. The Assisi scandal occurred a decade after the founding of SSPX. John Paul was the Bishop of Rome, not the Bishop of Dallas. The disciplinary failures in these cases were those of the diocesan bishops.

Philip Nachazel
Philip Nachazel
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 6:17pm

John Paul was glacially slow in providing for more opportunities to hear the traditional right, but he did provide for them.

Contrast that with PF.

If we could agree with one thing let it be that the faithful has slipped backwards.

Blame belongs to all.

We have had such complacency within our Church throughout the past 7 decades. Have our hearts always been in union with our Lords?

Maybe yours..but most definitely not mine.

I believe that we too play a role in our debacle. It’s not solely the Pope’s, Bishop’s or priests weaknesses or misgivings, but ours as well.

The good news is that God’s patience is incredibly gracious.
Let’s move forward in Faith that the God of All Mercy, Love and Patience see a turn of hearts here…within us.

I’m guilty of judging others actions without considering all of the circumstances that make up the historical fact of that soul.

How easy it is to judge.
I’m apologetic to group individuals that struggle with past circumstances that were beyond their control, and have a miserable self identity due to their past.

Forgiveness is hard.
Especially for oneself.

May God heal our neighbors and ourselves.

Filbert
Filbert
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 6:25pm

Funny that Francis “canonized” JPII, then later blamed him for failure in the abuse scandals.

Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 6:31pm

Always blame the subordinates to protect the image of the “saint”.

Art Deco, are you saying that even though he knew about the scandals, it wasnt his responsibility to do anything about it because he wasnt the direct bishop?

Who do those bishops report to? It absolutey is in the purview of the pope to at the very least notify the local authorities, at most to bring up said priests and bishops on canonical charges. A pope is not blocked from action by his bishops.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 8:25pm

I don’t accept that St JP2 deliberately hid/aided/co tributed sexual abuse by clergy during the time he was Pope. The Catholic Church is a big organisation. The buck stops with him, as Pope. However to
suggest he was part of the filth is wrong. And yes, where were the bishops when it was happening under their watch?

Greg Mockeridge
Greg Mockeridge
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 8:30pm

I once thought the canonization of JPII was a good idea. Now I think otherwise. His closeness to Fr. Maciel, the worst known clerical sexual predator in the history of the Church, scandalously mars his canonization. It doesn’t matter whether or not he was innocently duped by Maciel. The fact we don’t know whether or not we know if he actually knew about Maciel is extremely disturbing. McCarrick victim James Grien says John Paul II knew about Uncle Ted.

I think before the cause of a pope or high profile cleric or even an influential layman with a long complicated profile’s cause can even be opened, it should be mandatory that the individual be dead at least fifty years if not longer.

The canonization of St. Jose Maria Escriva is another head scratcher of a case. He was canonized less than thirty years after his death despite the fact there is controversy surrounding him as well as Opus Dei.

All these cases merit the investigation they have not received.

The abdication of the devil’s advocate among other things has made the canonization of saints, few cases notwithstanding, look more like the creation of cults of personality. That’s not a good thing.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 9:50pm

The canonization of St. Jose Maria Escriva is another head scratcher of a case. He was canonized less than thirty years after his death despite the fact there is controversy surrounding him as well as Opus Dei.

Rubbish. All here say after the fact. Happy to hear from people who actually have had personal involvement with Opus Dei. I e known people who have left Opus Dei personally and even they wouldn’t sprout this sort of stuff.

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Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 11:22pm

[…] R. McClarey, J.D., at The American Catholic Pope Francis Going to North Korea? – uCatholic Canonization has Become a Papal Job Benefit – D. McClarey, J.D., at The American […]

Greg Mockeridge
Greg Mockeridge
Tuesday, August 30, AD 2022 11:35pm

Ezabelle, you have ex members who opposed Escriva’s canonization process while it was underway. There’s an entire network of ex-members,ODAN (Opus Dei Awareness Network) that basically claim OD is a cult. Are they telling the truth? Don’t know. But I think their claims merit further investigation.

The Gold Watch canonizations are the product of a process that has become way too flabby.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 12:53am

Greg I encourage to question those claim and do your own research by talking to actual members and former members.

ODAN are disgruntled Church members with no substance to their claims, usually egged on by people who hate the Church- particularly those who hate the conservative side of the Church. Eg. I laughed when I read one maid claimed Josemaria himself used to mock her when she used to tend to their residences. A sainted man “mocking” another human being. It’s the narrative that’s been around for a while. Josemaria the secretive cult lord. If “mocking” her is all she has then I’d prefer to move on.

I’m not defending Opus Dei lightly here. I’m not even a member of Opus Dei but I feel the need to speak up when I hear Opus Dei is “controversial”. Really- in which way are they “controversial”? Because they pray and adhere to tradition and doctrine? My formation as a Catholic was impacted heavily by Opus Dei. There is no “controversy”.

By the way, Pope Francis has recently announced the head of Opus Dei can no longer be a Bishop and basically stripped Opus Dei of any Church powers. It’s a slap in the face to Opus Dei. This is just another move by Pope Francis to weaken the conservative and traditional side of the Church. And the sad part is that Opus Dei will never criticise him for it- they just say “we pray for Our Pope”.

Pope Francis is truly disappointing.

Greg Mockeridge
Greg Mockeridge
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 1:15am

I am questioning their claims. That’s what meriting further investigation usually means. Everything you said about ODAN was said about those who made similar accusations against the Legionaires of Christ and those accusations turned out to be largely true.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 2:10am

Fair enough- as long as the investigation is fair. But, I’m not sure how it could be fair with the current Vatican administration.

Pinky
Pinky
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 12:19pm

A pope doesn’t have to be a great pope to be a saint. But the canonization of a pope implies an endorsement of his papacy in the eyes of the public.

Saints make mistakes all the time. They get fooled by people. They fail.

Pinky
Pinky
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 1:48pm

That’s my inclination as well. A century seems like a reasonable wait. John Paul and Mother Teresa were never going to take that long, but it sometimes happens that popular saints have been canonized quickly. I don’t remember if I followed a link from this page, but I just watched Bishop Barron interview Shia LaBeouf about the Padre Pio movie, and he was talking about meeting people who had known him. That’s fascinating to me. And one of the themes in their discussion was that the Church can be both deliberate and passionate. So maybe a JP2 gets rushed and a JP1 takes centuries.

To me, the deciding factor is the miracles. If God tells me he wants something that loudly, I’m going to listen.

Art Deco
Art Deco
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 2:10pm

Art Deco, are you saying that even though he knew about the scandals, it wasnt his responsibility to do anything about it because he wasnt the direct bishop?

I think it’s unlikely that the Pope knew about any scandals that did not reach the Holy See’s appellate tribunals.

Mrs. McGillicuddy complains to Bp. Moynihan that Fr. Boyce fondles her son and Bp. Moynihan sends him to St Luke’s for sunshine and pinochle and then assigns him to a different parish. Why, in an organization which has 3,000 diocesan bishops do you fancy the pope would know anything about that?

Art Deco
Art Deco
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 2:30pm

It absolutey is in the purview of the pope to at the very least notify the local authorities,

You want the Pope to get on the horn to the police department in Fall River and tell them to arrest Fr. Whoziwhatsit? There were in 2001 about 27,000 working diocesan priests in the United States alone, another bloc of regular clergy, and retired priest of both sorts. How much time do you want the pope to spend reviewing personnel records?

There’s another problem here. These accusations were usually made more than a decade after the fact. I was personally acquainted with a priest born in 1929 who received a notification in 2016 that he’d been deemed ‘credibly accused’ by two complaints to the chancery and so his faculties were removed. His name was published two years later. He’d retired in 2001. The midpoint of his parish ministry was in 1977.

Another priest in the same diocese was subject in 2003 to a splashy suit by a man who claimed he’d been used by said priest as a catamite for seven years. The suit was thrown out in 2005 as time-barred, perhaps because it was filed by a 51 year old head case 33 years after the supposed incidents in question. (The supportive Utica papers gave a summary of his evidence, which was on the order of affidavits signed by this person and that person recalling the plaintiff had been billeted in the same hotel room with the priest in question at a CYO conference in 1966). So, the diocese declares the complaint unsubstantiated and restores his faculties. The priest dies in 2009 and then five years later the diocese declares he was ‘credibly accused’.

So, what you want the pope to do here?

Greg Mockeridge
Greg Mockeridge
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 3:20pm

Actually, Pinky, JPII’s canonization process should have taken a long, long, long, long time. For one, given how long his reign was. His pontificate had more problematic elements than many would like to admit. And the second is, his closeness to the worst known clerical sexual predator in the history of the Church, one Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado, founder of the cult known as the Legionaries of Christ, often called the Millionaires of Christ. That alone, independent of whether or not he knew anything, should have put the century’s long brakes on his cause. I don’t understand how people don’t see that. Ever notice that when sex abuse crisis is talked about in orthodox Catholic circles, the Maciel case gets little more than a passing mention? It’s usually McCarrick, McCarrick, McCarrick! McCarrick is a monster, but he’s a saint compared to Maciel. And the harm Maciel did eclipses that which McCarrick did. To say that putting the rush on canonizing a pope who was close to likes of Maciel undermines the credibility of the canonization process is an understatement.

I would also suspect if the reasons for Benedict’s abdication are other than the ones he stated (which carries a high probability) they have a Maciel connection. His refusal to disband the Legion, the love tap on Maciel’s wrist and no mention of Maciel’s victims reeks an unpleasant odor.

Greg Mockeridge
Greg Mockeridge
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 3:51pm

John Paul II didn’t know? In his book Vows of Silence, Jason Berry points out:

“In March 1993, when the U.S. bishops’ delegation (including Cardinals Bevilacqua of Philadelphia and O’Connor of New York) met with John Paul, they wanted greater autonomy under canon law to remove child molesters from the priesthood. Four years after the U.S. bishops’ canonists first met with Vatican authorities on the matter, the Roman Curia held fast to the use of secret trials for presenting the pope information on which he could make a decision. American bishops balked at using a ritual many thought archaic as they dealt with expensive criminal and civil cases. The Americans wanted a way to expel bad priests. I lived all those years under communism. I anot about to let that come into the church.”6 In viewing an accelerated way of laicizing sex offenders as akin to a totalitarian regime’s trampling on clerics’ rights, John Paul emphasized sin over crime, a mentality to which many bishops attributed their own mistakes, seeing the abuse of children as a moral lapse to be forgiven.7 In Rome, the bishops spoke of financial losses from litigation; the pope told them to keep suspended priests on the payroll. “You’ll get no quick fixes out of me.,” he declared.”

Philip Nachazel
Philip Nachazel
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 5:52pm

@ JFK.

I have been pondering your exhibit of St. Pope John Paul II conduct regarding problematic clerics within the Holy Catholic Church at the time of his pontificate and all I can say for certain is that, it’s possible. He may have made very poor decisions concerning the pedophilia and homosexual antics of his subordinates. Personally, I don’t know what for certain he knew and didn’t know.

I know this.

St. Pope John Paul II died on the vigil of Divine Mercy Sunday. That evening thousands if not tens of thousands we’re praying, as I was, the Chaplet of Divine Mercy for his soul.
In the mind of simple folk, me included, the signature of Our Lord was scribed into the timing of St. Pope JPII death.
As I said. I’m simple.

I have participated in death bedside ministry for over 22 years. I have witnessed multiple passings after the Divine Mercy Chaplet was prayed over the dying individuals. I have also noted that it happened while fallen away Catholic children were present at the bedside.

Coincidence doesn’t cut it for me.

Godincidence is not wishful thinking, but testimony on HIS power and HIS timing to convey a message to the onlookers.

In Saint Pope John Paul II’s death, it was a beautiful testimony of the significance of The Divine Mercy devotions and Sunday following Easter.

As to the saintly qualities of St. Pope JPII and his passing on the eve of Divine Mercy Sunday…I’ll leave that up for your discernment.

Peace brother.

Philip Nachazel
Philip Nachazel
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 6:14pm

Address was made mistakenly…
To Greg Mockeridge…not JFK.
Geeesh.🥴

Greg Mockeridge
Greg Mockeridge
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 6:23pm

Nothing you said, Phillip, addresses anything I said.

Philip Nachazel
Philip Nachazel
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 6:53pm

Greg Mockeridge.

I’m not arguing your point;
All I can say for certain is that, it’s possible. He may have made very poor decisions concerning the pedophilia and homosexual antics of his subordinates.

My point was that his works to bring back the message of St. Faustina and the Divine Mercy, which was discarded by the powers that be in the Vatican, was grace driven and efficacious for countless souls to come.

I didn’t try to refute your position.
I said it’s possible.

I know that he wasn’t perfect.
The timing of his death speaks volumes…imho.

Greg Mockeridge
Greg Mockeridge
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 7:13pm

I’m not saying JPII didn’t do good things or that he’s not a saint. I was addressing the prudence of his canonization. As far the Divine Mercy devotion is concerned, the Holy See at the time was more than a bit cautious about approving it, as should be the case with things like that. As Abp. Wojtyla, it is claimed he sought out the then prefect of the Holy Office(now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) Cdl. Ottaviani for advice in how he should proceed with it. And Ottaviani supposedly told him to do so while he was young enough to have the energy to do it. I think the traditional approach of the Church private revelations of this to proceed at a snail’s pace is a wise one. Besides, the approval of such lies more with the local bishop than the Holy See.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 7:45pm

I’m not saying JPII didn’t do good things or that he’s not a saint. with all due respect and forgive me for saying this – you are saying in no uncertain terms that he shouldn’t be a Saint. What you are implying is wrong. It is also offensive to those who have devotion to him.

He is a Saint. And many pray for his intercession and he has interceded for many. Many faithful have genuine devotion to him as a Saint. And the timing of his Sainthood shouldn’t bother anyone wanting their fellow man to get to heaven. He always spoke the Truth unapologetically and didn’t confuse his words. He led with courage, and at the expense of being scorned and mocked by society. He is a once-in-a-lifetime leader, let alone a-once-in-a lifetime Pope. A beautiful soul. May StJP2 continue to intercede for us ALL. Prayers Greg.

Mary De Voe
Wednesday, August 31, AD 2022 11:46pm

“Especially Paul VI who at the very least was a very weak pope and that is the kindest things to say about him.”
There is a difference between gentleness and weakness. Humanae Vitae is the most beautiful and gentle approach to marital sex ever.

Mary De Voe
Thursday, September 1, AD 2022 12:21am

Fulton Sheen was in charge of pedophile priests. Sheen never, never returned an offender to ministry. John Paul II called the American Bishops to Rome and told them “One crime and they are out” The American bishops returned to Dallas and said that priestly formation was $249,000.00 and therefore, two crimes and maybe they are out” Complete disopbedience to Pope John Paul II. The American bishops wrote the Dallas Charter leaving themselves out of the Charter.
Frank Keating Gov. of Oklahoma was chairman but left for the uncooperation of the bishops. Anne Burke was then appointed to chair the Charter. Benedict Groeschell was appointed to counsel the criminal child abusers. On EWTN Groeschell claimed that only seven or eight criminals returned to abusing children after his counsels.On EWTN Groeschell claimed that 14 year old boys were seducing priests. Isn’t the priest to save the delinquent’s soul through the spiritual and corporal works of mercy?
The American bishops are guilty of disobedience to Pope Saint John Paul II. The American bishops are guilty for the child abuse and the continuance. May God have mercy on their recalcitrant souls.
Assualt and battery is the crime of anyone touching a person without their consent. Emancipated sovereign persons have informed consent to give to contract, vote, serve in the military and assorted other free will issues. Statutory rape for anyone under emancipation and informed consent. One person cannot own another person, not ever, certainly not in marriage. Share one’s mind, one’s heart and one’s soul. How can a spouse give himself/herself if he is not his/her own? The giving of oneself in marriage comes from and through the freedom God endowed in sovereign personhood in His image and likeness. God set mankind free. Some evil doers try to own other free souls.If ignorance will be running the Catholic Church, the American bishops ought to get their tuition back from the seminaries.
Priests who violate their vows to bring all souls to heaven are liars and their father is a liar.

Mary De Voe
Thursday, September 1, AD 2022 12:26am

I need mercy

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