Tuesday, March 19, AD 2024 1:03am

Why The Secular Left Dislikes Tim Tebow

“Seriously!” I can still hear that word echo through my brain even though the event took place this past summer. At a social gathering a young gentleman and his lady friend (and I use that term loosely) were gesticulating wildly when someone in the crowd told them about Tim Tebow beliefs.  Evidently they weren’t football fans, so someone brought them up to speed about Tebow. At this point in his career many now say, “he’s a nice kid but…,” However, at that point they didn’t even say that; they simply used words like a “Bible thumper” or someone “lost in the 50s.” Now they have to throw him a bone by at least saying, “He’s a nice kid, but…” However, wait until next year when someone connects the dots and assumes he probably won’t vote for the Obama-Biden ticket. The secular left is going to throw everything at him including the kitchen sink.

I was recently asked by someone to give a Catholic perspective about Tebow. I had to explain to this individual that Pope Benedict XVI probably doesn’t even know who Tebow is, but that I am sure the Holy Father would appreciate his earnest approach. Now I also quite convinced that our friends on the Secular Catholic Left probably wish Tebow would shut up or at least voice his concern about their favorite make believe topics such as man made Climate Change.

I heard as much recently while channel surfing. A glutton for punishment I stopped briefly on MSNBC to hear one of their emasculated males go on some sort of tirade about Governor Rick Perry because the Texas Governor (in a Iowa TV commercial) said he believed in marriage between a man and a woman. This particular MSNBC host seemed to really enjoy his own commentary because he concluded by saying he was surprised that the particular Perry Commercial wasn’t in black and white because it seemed right out of the 1950s.

The left has so many things going for it with their social engineering, the daily liberal propaganda they try to shove down the throats of those in the western world via the mainstream media, along with the silver screen and television; one would think they would be ecstatic. However,  when they hear about Evangelicals like Tim Tebow or the increase in Catholic seminarians and young women in religious life who happen to actually believe in what the Catholic Church teaches and even goes so far as to wear cassocks and habits, well this to them is outrageous. Anyone who adheres to what Tebow or these young seminarians and women religious believe, well they must be either dolts or dangerous right wing throwbacks.

These nefarious conspirators want to throw American back into the 1950s when people actually went to church, believed in right and wrong and almost universally applauded any leader (like our current Pope Benedict XVI) who railed against the Dictatorship of Relativism. These counter revolutionaries might even want to cling to their guns and religion.  

In all my days as a player and coach, I don’t think I ever really prayed for a victory. To me God has His purposes and I as a humble adherent to his message just chose to follow Him. However, that doesn’t mean that just once in a while God may actually engineer a game or two for His purposes. Maybe, just maybe Tim Tebow’s miraculous last six victories are meant to send us all a message. Believe, even when the world says there is no God. Believe, when some say God is just some sort of absent minded Mr. Magoo as Bill Maher and some of his Apatheists think. Believe, when a disbelieving world says for God “it’s all good,” and there are not right or wrongs just different shades of gray. Believe, even when leaders think abortion is a fine alternative after all they would hate to see their teenage daughters punished with a child.

Reggie Johnson and or myself might just ask Tim Tebow (if he agrees to appear) how his faith came to grow and flourish on the Christian Peschken produced television program Non Negotiable, which God willing should be on the air in 2012. By now you may have probably heard that doctors tried to talk Tebow’s parents into having him aborted since it was believed he would be deformed and probably too small to live if he was born. (You might recall Tebow and his mother appeared in a Super Bowl Pro Life ad while he was still in college.) God only knows how many others parents were probably told the same scenario. All of these factors cause those with or without beliefs to evaluate their own beliefs when someone is so adamant and happy go lucky as is Tebow with his beliefs.

For the believer Tebow is a welcomed change, a young man who doesn’t boast but thoroughly embraces his chaste lifestyle. In Tebow the believer rallies around a young man who says God Bless you when he concludes an interview. Recently Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers (who is not Catholic) simply said in response to whether Tebow should be so outspoken in his faith, “I believe in the words of Saint Francis of Assisi, Preach the Gospel at all times and use words when absolutely necessary.” The secular world loves that for they have an image of St Francis as a simple man who talked with the animals, while walking away from all of that wealth and privilege. Yet how many people know that Saint Francis went to the Holy Land during the Crusades. He met with the Crusaders and then wanted to meet with Sultan Malik al Kamil on the Muslim side. (Read Frank Rega’s fine book on the real St Francis.)

The Crusaders told Saint Francis he would probably return to them minus his head. However, Saint Francis pushed onward. He did meet with the Sultan and Saint Francis did tell him that Christ was the only way he or anyone else on this earth was going to be saved. Saint Francis did not convert the Sultan that day but the Sultan was impressed with St Francis’ courage and forthrightness.

Most of us watching Tim Tebow, who are believers, view him as a nice young man from whom who the world could learn a thing or two. However, for the secular left, they fear he might have a tinge of the real Saint Francis within him, a man who might actually make them take a deeper look at their self absorbed lifestyle and narcissistic way, and for them even the thought is too much to bear. (Yes, there is a Facebook page called, “I Bet I Can Find 1,000,000 People Who Hate Tim Tebow.”)

In the 1961 Dino DeLaurentis movie Barabbas (adapted from the novel of the same name) the fictional Roman procurator scratches out the symbol of Christ from Barabbas’s (Anthony Quinn) medallion which he secretly kept on the backside. The procurator tells Barabbas (after Barabbas says he tried to believe in Christ but couldn’t) that it is better not to wear medallions of people of whom you don’t believe.

Our society loves to be spiritual, but often that means a watered down hallmark card form of faith that benefits no one. We have seen some examples of it in Catholicism with liberal churches who try to water down the Faith and then become furious when they are called out by a bishop or the laity. We have also have seen some examples of it in the Evangelical world where entertainment churches replete with theater seats for your latte try to make everything as comfortable and non threatening as possible, going so far as to have no crosses in the building for all of that suffering might make some uncomfortable. (Check out the article; If You Want The Political Left To Run Governments, Look At What The Religious Left Has Done To Religion, Left Them In Tatters.)

One might at least give some of the above a little bit of leeway because of poor catechesis. However, for those on the secular left, they have arrogantly concluded they don’t need God, whether He exists or not. They are often aided by those liberal Catholic and entertainment church attendees who say their arrogance is probably caused by the likes of Tebow and company. This is what causes so much fear in their hearts and minds of those on the secular left, for as smart as they think they are, they still haven’t outsmarted Tebow and company. He continues to preach and smile and (subconsciously) let them know that God is real and so is truth and they have neither, though they could if they only accepted God and His truth.

Dave Hartline author of The Tide is Turning Toward Catholicism

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RR
RR
Monday, December 12, AD 2011 12:49am

Tebow’s become a political football. The secular left hates him because the religious right loves him.

t shaw
t shaw
Monday, December 12, AD 2011 6:42am

Tim didn’t get the diktat. Only godless rats are allowed to publicly express their beliefs.

Art Deco
Art Deco
Monday, December 12, AD 2011 8:01am

The secular left hates him because the religious right loves him.

Try a more plausible hypothesis: the secular left hates him because that’s how they roll.

Donald R. McClarey
Admin
Monday, December 12, AD 2011 8:18am

Leftists tend to be a very intolerant bunch, which makes their usual shouting about tolerance hilarious. When it comes to public displays of Christian faith they react like vampires to a cross in an old horror flick.

Foxfier
Monday, December 12, AD 2011 11:02am

RR-
the reverse is true, for some of us; I wouldn’t even know who Tebow was if it wasn’t for so many lefties hating him. Sadly, it’s not just the secular folks, either.

G-Veg
G-Veg
Monday, December 12, AD 2011 11:33am

I shy away from public displays of religiosity. Much of my experience of public prayer has been negative. Only God knows whether a public display is for Him or is mere self-aggrandizement.

I hope that Mr. Tebow’s is a deep-rooted impulse to praise the creator who animates him with the prowess as he displays on the field.

As a Philadelphian, I’m a bit jealous of Denver and their Broncos.

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Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 12:01am

[…] Why Secularists Dislikes Tim Tebow – Dave Hartline, The American Catholic […]

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 9:13am

Persacution Complex. A staple of the religious right. Has it occurred to any of you that maybe you are imagining all the hate? I myself am an Atheist (bring on the hate, you know you want to) and I’m indifferent to Tebow, my issue is with all this hype surrounding him solely because he is a christian. Face facts, Tim Tebow is an average quarterback. He’s not the worst in the NFL, but hes no Drew Brees or Tom Brady (check the stats: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating) The reason Tebow wins these games is because of the team itself. The last game was won because the broncos kicker managed to pull out two 50+ yard field goals. The kicker did that, not Tebow. I’m not trying to offened anyone, but calm down. People are allowed to not like someone for a number of reasons, not just because of their religon.

BTW, I always get a good laugh at christians who cry about “intolerance” when I read stories like this: http://elev8.com/news/orethawinston/all-american-muslim-controversy/

Spambot3049
Spambot3049
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 10:12am

“Has it occurred to any of you that maybe you are imagining all the hate?”

Too funny. SeanB. (You’re not serious, are you?)

Donald R. McClarey
Admin
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 10:37am

The Infinite Monkey Theorem that our friend Darwin Catholic uses as his avatar! A possibility, but not within any relevant time period.

I”n this context, “almost surely” is a mathematical term with a precise meaning, and the “monkey” is not an actual monkey, but a metaphor for an abstract device that produces a random sequence of letters and symbols ad infinitum. The probability of a monkey exactly typing a complete work such as Shakespeare’s Hamlet is so tiny that the chance of it occurring during a period of time even a hundred thousand orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe is extremely low, but not actually zero.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 11:18am

@Dave
“You went on about “perseuction complex” and “bring on the hate, you know you want to.” What is that all about?” Simple. You may not realize this, but christians aren’t all that friendly to those of us in the non-belief system. Your post more then highlights this fact.

“Your post seems to be of that group who doesn’t keep in open mind” I am an Atheist BECAUSE of an open mind. The first half of my life I was raised catholic. I’ve been baptised, I’ve had my first communion, and I sat in church and sunday school every week untill I realized it made no sense.

“Have you ever really pondered how ridiculous your belief system is?” Silly me, clearly the religon of virgin births, the dead rising over the weekend and a universe created in 6 days far less ridiculous. Also, you ever eat at a red lobster?

“There exists no primitive culture in the world who were atheists. God did implant knowledge of Him in everyone” Soooooooo how does that explain the greeks who worshiped Zues, or the Scandanavians who worshiped Odin? Do they exsist? Did they imprint their exsistance in them?

BTW, You bring up the facebook page, so I pose the question. Could this be your fault? You took an average quarterback who belives in god and made him out to be the greatest Football player in the history of football?

Also, can’t help but notice he works on sunday. Just saying…

bob
bob
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 11:39am

“There exists no primitive culture in the world who were atheists.”

Well yeah…. The enlightened theists of the time killed all the atheists as heretics or witches.

Paul W Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 11:44am

Contrary to Sean B’s assertions, there is vast amount of evidence from science for what the Bible claims. Dr. Hugh Ross at the Reasons to Beleive Institute discusses these at length at his web site. Perhaps Sean B should start at the sub-links here:

http://www.reasons.org/physics/constants-physics

Like almost every atheist I have met to date, Sean B believes in his religion of scientism (to be differentiated from science) and atheism (my god is me) with every bit as much fervor as a Southern Baptist Fundamentalist believes in short Earth history creationism.

So may Sean B’s closed mind be open enough to consider what Hugh Ross – a bona fide scientist – writes. There is a wealth of information at his web site and it will take days to sift through it.

Christian Peschken
Christian Peschken
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 12:00pm

Dear Atheists: Thank you for contributing to solidify that God exist and is among us.

Paul W Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 12:24pm

It appears that a comment sarcastically stating that enlightened theists murdered atheists in primitive societies has been deleted. No matter. The accusation should be addressed, at least by drawing a comparison with the almost 100 million people whom atheists of the 20th century murdered (i.e., Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, etc.). Maximillien Robespierre in the France of the late 1790s was a trial run.

PS, here are a few more articles for the atheist to consider:

Temporality beyond Time: What the Creation Reveals
http://www.reasons.org/temporality-beyond-time-what-creation-reveals

Fine-Tuning For Life In The Universe (AUG 2006)
http://www.reasons.org/fine-tuning-life-universe-aug-2006

I have Dr. Hugh Ross’s book at home that gives the figures for the 93 physical constants of the universe listed in the last web link that have to be fined tuned for life to appear, sometimes to as much as one part in 10^100 (that’s a 1 followed by 100 zeroes) or more. That means that a chimp has to pound out 93 different books having 10^100 characters with no mistakes. It’ll take a while for a chimp to do that – more time than the universe itself has.

“For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.” Romans 1:19-20a

Paul W Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 12:25pm

Opps, that comment wasn’t deleted! My bad! sorry!

Paul W Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 12:38pm

Dinesh D’Souza, a Protestant evangelical apologist, wrote an interesting article in the Christian Science Monitor entitled, “Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html

There is a certain logic to this. Atheists reject God, the giver of life Who is life Himself. So the only thing they have left to offer is death.

bob
bob
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 12:59pm

Dave – http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heretic ; “anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.” The catholic church burned heretics, witches, and pretty much anyone who would dare spread dissent from their viewpoints.

Additionally, atheism is not a new concept, it existed during ancient days – see Samkhya Philosophy from around 200AD. Also see “Diagoras of Melos”.

Finally – I find it fascinating that you bring up Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot – leaders of communist regimes, well known for their brutality and inequality. Are you saying that the only thing stopping you from going on a mass murdering spree is your belief in God?

Paul W Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 1:07pm

“Are you saying that the only thing stopping you from going on a mass murdering spree is your belief in God?”

While not directed towards me, the short answer is YES!

But for the grace of God, there go I. Without God man behaves like a mindless, irresponsible baboon.

bob
bob
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 1:20pm

@Paul – please don’t reproduce.

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 1:21pm

@Paul
That does not say much about you. I don’t believe in god, do you know why I havn’t gone on a killing spree yet?

Paul W Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 1:28pm

:

Too late. I have already reproduced. It’s that old “be frutiful and multiply” commandment back in Genesis.

@Sean B:

Obviously the grace of God has penetrated somewhere into your psyche – thankfully!

Paul W Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 1:41pm

Romans 7:14 though 8:9 bears on this discussion, but I am unsure that an atheist would understand.

14* We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15* I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. 17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22* For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, 23* but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members. 24* Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

1* There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2* For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death. 3* For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, * he condemned sin in the flesh, 4* in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5* For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6* To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; 8* and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9* But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

trackback
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 2:57pm

[…] you have to respect the fact that the kid get’s it done. Dave Hartline’s recent article Why The Secular Left Dislikes Tim Tebow adds even more reason why Christians love the […]

Foxfier
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 3:04pm

What’s with the sudden oh-I’m-a-victim-and-you’ve-got-mental-issues thing from atheists? Just the usual projection, someone suggested it, or just happenstance that I’ve seen it pop up recently?

Bob- please note the primary definition; the third definition down is a (metaphorical, in this case) less common use, same as in a normal, printed dictionary. BTW, the logical fallacy you’re committing is called equivocation. (Incidentally, protestants are the ones that went for burning in a big way, and even then it wasn’t as big as Hollywood and various anti-Christian groups like to pretend.)

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 4:20pm

“What’s with the sudden oh-I’m-a-victim-and-you’ve-got-mental-issues thing from atheists?” Did you miss the whole “WAH WAH, leftists are mean to tebow” article? Like I said, Christians love the persicution complex.

@Dave “An apt description of militant atheists; you would rather make excuses than see the trees for the forest.” Or maybe, just maybe, the proof against christianity is stronger then the proof for? Anyone can say “Goddidit” to answer all the questions of the universe and be done with it, it actually takes effort to prove things WITHOUT god to fall back on. Try opening your mind my friend.

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 4:20pm

“What’s with the sudden oh-I’m-a-victim-and-you’ve-got-mental-issues thing from atheists?” Did you miss the whole “WAH WAH, leftists are mean to tebow” article? Like I said, Christians love the persicution complex.

@Dave “An apt description of militant atheists; you would rather make excuses than see the trees for the forest.” Or maybe, just maybe, the proof against christianity is stronger then the proof for? Anyone can say “Goddidit” to answer all the questions of the universe and be done with it, it actually takes effort to prove things WITHOUT god to fall back on. Try opening your mind my friend.

Paul Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 4:31pm

Sean B,

You did exactly what every atheist I have ever met did. You refused to read and study information that disagrees with your preconceived notions. You want to be God even though you declare you evolved from nothing but a mindless ape. Go to the Reasons to Believe Institute and study what a bona fide scientist has to say. Start here:

http://www.reasons.org/physics/constants-physics

http://www.reasons.org/rtbs-creation-model/tcm-big-bang

By the way, God DID do it (i.e., creation) and you will find that out one day. You and I owe Him our allegiance, our obedience and our love. But in spite of the fact that you denigrate and revile and criticize and condemn with unceasing loathing any belief in and love for God, God still loves you – so much so that His only begotten Son died for you – and that is what must burn you up with unceasing agony.

Thomas Adam Lewis
Thomas Adam Lewis
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 4:38pm

I’m glad Tebow is winning. He’s thanking Jesus every time. Now when they lose I guess he has got to thank Satan. After all, it is only consistent with his “reasoning”.

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:11pm

Oh I read things I don’t agree with. The bible for instance. According to the bible, the Earth was created by god. Also, the bible says the sun revovles around the earth (Psalms 93:1) and that the earth is flat (Job 11:9). And how did those two work out?

Why would I be burned up about the death of the son of a guy I don’t believe ever exsisted?

Paul Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:15pm

There is a web site called “Evidence for God” at http://www.godandscience.org. It’s a little too fundamentalist for my tastes, but it aptly summarizes what Dr. Hugh Ross and other Christians who are scientists have explained about the degree of fine tuning of the physical constants that make up the universe. When confronted with this evidence, the atheist invariably invokes without a shred of physical evidence an infinite multiverse where an infinite number of universes exist. The atheist explanation goes like this: if the number of universes is infinite, then surely one will have life. This shows that atheists have simply made the multiverse their god – a god of esoteric unproven mathematical equations and all without a shred of physical evidence, nor can there be because the laws of physics are different in these different universes, so we could never observe them with our senses anyways. How is that different than an infinite invisible God? Nevertheless, before I get carried away with myself, let’s have at least some salient points in the article at http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html:

—–

According to Carl Sagan, the universe (cosmos) “is all that is or ever was or ever will be.” However, the idea that the universe is all is not a scientific fact, but an assumption based upon materialistic naturalism. Since Carl Sagan’s death in 1996, new discoveries in physics and cosmology bring into questions Sagan’s assumption about the universe. Evidence shows that the constants of physics have been finely tuned to a degree not possible through human engineering. Five of the more finely tuned numbers are included in the table below. For comments about what scientists think about these numbers, see the page Quotes from Scientists Regarding Design of the Universe.

Fine Tuning of the Physical Constants of the Universe

Ratio of Electrons:Protons
Max Deviation:
1:10^37

Ratio of Electromagnetic Force:Gravity
Max Deviation:
1:10^40

Expansion Rate of Universe
Max Deviation:
1:10^55

Mass of Universe
1:10^59

Cosmological Constant
1:10^120

These numbers represent the maximum deviation from the accepted values, that would either prevent the universe from existing now, not having matter, or be unsuitable for any form of life.

Recent Studies have confirmed the fine tuning of the cosmological constant (also known as “dark energy”). This cosmological constant is a force that increases with the increasing size of the universe. First hypothesized by Albert Einstein, the cosmological constant was rejected by him, because of lack of real world data. However, recent supernova 1A data demonstrated the existence of a cosmological constant that probably made up for the lack of light and dark matter in the universe. However, the data was tentative, since there was some variability among observations. Recent cosmic microwave background (CMB) measurement not only demonstrate the existence of the cosmological constant, but the value of the constant. It turns out that the value of the cosmological constant exactly makes up for the lack of matter in the universe.

The degree of fine-tuning is difficult to imagine. Dr. Hugh Ross gives an example of the least fine-tuned of the above four examples in his book, The Creator and the Cosmos, which is reproduced here:

One part in 10^37 is such an incredibly sensitive balance that it is hard to visualize. The following analogy might help: Cover the entire North American continent in dimes all the way up to the moon, a height of about 239,000 miles (In comparison, the money to pay for the U.S. federal government debt would cover one square mile less than two feet deep with dimes.). Next, pile dimes from here to the moon on a billion other continents the same size as North America. Paint one dime red and mix it into the billions of piles of dimes. Blindfold a friend and ask him to pick out one dime. The odds that he will pick the red dime are one in 10^37.

The ripples in the universe from the original Big Bang event are detectable at one part in 100,000. If this factor were slightly smaller, the universe would exist only as a collection of gas – no planets, no life. If this factor were slightly larger, the universe would consist only of large black holes. Obviously, no life would be possible in such a universe.

Another finely tuned constant is the strong nuclear force (the force that holds atoms together). The Sun “burns” by fusing hydrogen (and higher elements) together. When the two hydrogen atoms fuse, 0.7% of the mass of the hydrogen is converted into energy. If the amount of matter converted were slightly smaller—0.6% instead of 0.7%— a proton could not bond to a neutron, and the universe would consist only of hydrogen. With no heavy elements, there would be no rocky planets and no life. If the amount of matter converted were slightly larger—0.8%, fusion would happen so readily and rapidly that no hydrogen would have survived from the Big Bang. Again, there would be no solar systems and no life. The number must lie exactly between 0.6% and 0.8% (Martin Rees, Just Six Numbers).

—–

There is a lot more information in Dr. Hugh Ross’s book, “The Creator and the Cosmos.” Please buy it (you can’t have mine – it’s all marked up and worn out). I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that nature shouts out “GOD” and only a fool denies this.

Foxfier
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:23pm

Did you miss the whole “WAH WAH, leftists are mean to tebow” article? Like I said, Christians love the persicution complex.

False equivalence, and you did not respond to the question.

Goodness, for a supposedly “rational” person, you don’t bother with logic and reason much.

Donald R. McClarey
Admin
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:29pm

“After all, it is only consistent with his “reasoning”.”

Only for those who are completely clueless about God, which is a pretty good definition of an atheist.

Paul Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:31pm

“Why would I be burned up about the death of the son of a guy I don’t believe ever exsisted?”

Sean, you won’t be burned up by the death of the son of a guy you don’t believe in.

Rather, if you continue in your unrepentent state, then you will wilfully send your own self to hell to burn for all eternity. You will never be burned up. Rather, you would burn unendingly and in ceaseless torment, and if you continue on your current course, then you will choose this fate voluntarily rather than believe. No one here at The American Catholic (I am sure) would ever want that for you.

As for Earth having been created by God, it was: accretion of stony rocks around a central mass of hydrogen some 4.5 biullion years ago. And the universe was created by God in the Big Bang some 13.73 billion years ago. Atheists hate the big bang because it means that there IS a creation point – the singularity at the beginning – and hence a Creator. Thus they posit that unproven multiverse junk science. They make the mulitverse their god.

BTW, Psalm 93:1 says: “The LORD is king,* robed with majesty; the LORD is robed, girded with might. The world will surely stand in place, never to be moved.” It doesn’t say the Earth is flat, and furthermore, it’s part of a poem. Poets use poetic license. They don’t write a science text book.

Also, Job 11:9 says: “It (the depth of God) is longer than the earth in measure, and broader than the sea.” It doesn’t say the sun revolves around the Earth, but even if it did, all of Job is a poem and poems aren’t science text books.

Read real scientists like Dr. Hugh Ross and Stephen M. Barr.

Paul Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:34pm

“accretion of stony rocks around a central mass of hydrogen some 4.5 biullion years ago.”

Please change to:

“accretion of stony rocks into a solid mass in orbit around a central mass of hydrogen fusion some 4.5 biullion years ago.”

Details – details – details

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:43pm

Did the church teach you reading skills? Here is what I typed: “Also, the bible says the sun revovles around the earth (Psalms 93:1) and that the earth is flat (Job 11:9).” You writing out what I said only proves the point. Thanks pal.

BUT WAIT, are you saying there are parts of the bible that should NOT be taken seriously? Does that include the “DO NOT EAT SHELFISH” thing?

“Rather, if you continue in your unrepentent state, then you will wilfully send your own self to hell to burn for all eternity.” But god will do it with love right? Because god is love. FURIOUS LOVE. LOVE YOU TO DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!

Christian Peschken
Christian Peschken
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:47pm

One thing is for sure… and that, dear Atheists, is how God always works … He got a lot attention. Hate is the result of fear. All that screaming and yelling.. fear … and fear is the opposite of Love… but true Love come only from God through his son Jesus! He loved us first!

Paul W. Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:55pm

Sean, I quoted the verse of Sacred Scripture that you cited. They do not state what you claimed they stated.

As for eating shell fish, please read Acts 10:9-16. Also, please read Mark 7:18-19 where Jesus declared all food clean.

Also, remember that Jesus does love you to death – His death. See John 3:16-17.

I have provided you with detailed evidence from science. I have rationally and dispassionately answered your “questions” and rebuted you position with logic and what I know from physics. All you have offered in return is irrational yelling and screaming. There is only one recourse – to invoke our Blessed Mother’s Intercession for you:

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Blessed art Thou among women
And blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of our death.
Amen!

You don’t have to go to hell, but that means you have to surrender your free will to Him.

Donald R. McClarey
Admin
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 5:57pm

“Did the church teach you reading skills? Here is what I typed: “Also, the bible says the sun revovles around the earth (Psalms 93:1) and that the earth is flat (Job 11:9).” You writing out what I said only proves the point. Thanks pal.”

Dimestore atheists are always such a howl when they attempt to troll a Catholic website. Here is a clue: we are not fundamentalists. Catholics from the time of Christ have been interpreting passages in the Bible in a figurative and not a literal sense. Most atheist trolls are as literalist when it comes to the Bible as any Holy Roller.

Here is what Saint Augustine wrote on the subject:

“It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.

With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures.”

Paul W. Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 6:11pm

Donald, the atheist wants a science text book out of the Bible and when he doesn’t get one, he cites that as proof that the Bible is false. But in reality what the atheist is given is God’s love, and that I think is really what he can’t stand: being rescued from the self-imposed hell of an overweening ego and the inferiority complex of a man who the harder he relies on his pride hates himself all the more. For the atheist there is nothing worthwhile with his life because when he dies, that’s it – no eternity. So when an atheist sees a Christian, he can’t stand that sense of hope that he himself refuses to accept for to do so would mean sacrificing his own ego and admitting that without Jesus all his feelings of inferiority are ever so real.

This isn’t based on science. All the web links and scientific explanations that I provided proves that. The atheist can’t dispute a single point. All he can do is foam at the mouth at something that inwardly he knows is true but outwardly can’t acquiesce to lest he admit he is (Heaven forbid!) wrong. It’s that old ego out of control with an unstoppable inferiority complex. I recognize it well because I can be its victim all too easily, and was for 10 years of alcoholic insanity. The reason why I rejected a 12 step program when the XO on my submarine sent me to one? The steps had God in them and I was going to be damned before I believed in any God. Thus, God allowed me the damnation of my addictions. That’s what it took for me, and I suspect Sean may unhappily require a similar experience.

🙁

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 6:20pm

@Paul “Sean, I quoted the verse of Sacred Scripture that you cited. They do not state what you claimed they stated.” Because you quoted them backwards.

Psalm 93:1 says: “The LORD is king, robed with majesty; the LORD is robed, girded with might. The world will surely stand in place, never to be moved.” The reason it has nothing to do with a flat earth is because it says “The world will surely stay in place” as in not move, as in Earth does not move around the sun. Also, Job 11:9 says: “It (the depth of God) is longer than the earth in measure, and broader than the sea.” The reason this dosn’t have to do with the sun revolving around the earth is because this is the flat earth quote. Longer then the earth is impossible because The earth is a sphere, and as such has no starting or ending point that isn’t arbitrarily chosen (my front door for instance.) A flat earth does not have this problem.

“All you have offered in return is irrational yelling and screaming.” Not yelling or screaming, I’m typing. But while doing so I shake my head at statements like “I have provided you with detailed evidence from science. I have rationally and dispassionately answered your “questions” and rebuted you position with logic” when (as my paragraph above pointed out) you don’t even seem to be reading my posts. But if you read my posts like I’m yelling a screaming, that goes back to the persecution complex.

But if you must go, answer me one more question. Why would god give me free will, if I must give it up to avoid an eternity of torment? Kinda seems like god is the ultimate troll…

Paul W. Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 6:24pm

Sean,

God gave you free will so that you can chose love on your own. When you Him, you chose love. He doesn’t want automatons.

As for the Bible verses, the Bible isn’t a science book. It’s the book of God’s love for humanity. Read what Donald explained.

I say again: God won’t “send” you to hell. You do that all by yourself when you reject Him.

SeanB
SeanB
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 6:38pm

“For the atheist there is nothing worthwhile with his life because when he dies, that’s it – no eternity”. Shows what you know. I have purpose and his name is Caleb B. He is my two year old nephew. His dad is the ginger hair definition of a deadbeet. Everything I do in my life for now is to make his life as great as I can, and to be the father figure he will always need, and to fo the same thing when I have my own kids. Kind of seems like I do have somthing worthwhile in my life. As for the christians, you die, you make it to heaven, then what? You live for eternity with no more purpose.

Have fun with that

Dante alighieri
Admin
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 6:43pm

I wasn’t going to weigh in on this thread because, honestly, I think Tebow is a mediocre quarterback getting by on a combination of things. That said, when I see things like this along with the wisdom of trolls like SeanB I can’t help but partially root for the Broncos and Tebow to keep on rolling.

Paul W. Primavera
Tuesday, December 13, AD 2011 6:50pm

Sean,

Heaven be praised for Caleb B. Caleb is one of my favorite Old Testament characters – the one man who believed the children of Israel could take the Promised Land when everyone else said no. And at 80 years of age when finally they made it into the land of Canaan, he wanted the tallest mountain with the largest giants. No wimp of a man was he!

But what will you do, Sean, if God forbid something happens to Caleb? What is Caleb is no more? Then what is your reason for living? Or better yet, what if when Caleb grows up he becomes a Christian? What will you do then?

I love my two little children with all my heart. I even love my ex-wife (but I really don’t like her all that much, though I do like her boyfriend – kind of weird). But Jesus is the reason. Jesus – nothing else can compare. And without Him I have nothing. I learned that a long time ago in a 12 step program when I was told that I can’t get sober for my spouse, my kids, my Mom, my priest, my job, my boss, or whatever. I had to come to believe that a Power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. And fortunately that penetrated the lead and concrete surrounding my skull. Of course I had to be beaten into submission – that old powerlessness and unmanageability – first. In my case, God used my addictions to beat me not senseless, but into sense.

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