I Wish I Were As Confident As You Ed
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
I would rather be faithful to Scripture & Tradition than the Institutional Church. I am not staying with an abusive Mother. I had to do that once in my lifetime – literally. No more.
One cannot do one without the other. Christ founded His Church and we must ever be loyal to Her. Loyalty includes pointing out when the men at the top are misruling Mother Church.
In his podcast, Thompson says that JPII’s apostolic constitution Ordinatio sacerdotalis fell short of being an infallible statement.
… It sure seemed to check all the appropriate boxes to me.
I’m not confident this won’t be trouble either because there are already too too many feminized bishops, gay or not.
But I am confident in the end.
Dr. Feser has been clear in his writings that Church officials can be horrible, up to and including the Pope teaching outright heresy.
But what is impossible for the Pope to change an infallible teaching. If such a thing would happen it would mean one of two things:
1.) Catholicism is false.
2.) The supposed Pope is actually the antipope.
But it is difficult for 2.) to be true in cases (like today) where there is not a clear alternative for a real Pope, since someone must be the Pope. It’s not like the days of the Avicenna Papacy.
I think that Pope Francis is actually doing a good job of demonstrating the state of affairs. It is no secret that on a level of personal preference Pope Francis would rather deal with the political left than the political right. As such, he has had many statements where he has sounded softer on issues like gay marriage than a Pope probably should. However, whenever it has come time for him to definitively take a position on the matter, he has always been firm that marriage is only between a man and a woman.
Papal Infallibility really isn’t that impressive when you have a good pope who is inclined to support tradition. In that case you just have the actions of a good person. Papal Infallibility is more obviously divine when it still functions for a BAD pope.
The choice between good and evil is constantly before us every instant of every day.
“As for me and mine we will serve the Lord.” Joshua
Rudolph:
You no doubt mean the Avignon Papacy (weird autocorrect).
We have had many bad popes, and a real bad stretch from 850-950 called even by Catholic historians the Pornocracy. Dante read out Boniface VIII. The Renaissance popes were often sleazy and openly worldly, and many post-Trent popes old doddards like Biden cynically chosen by corrupt cardinal-electors to given their “deep state” a free hand. The last of that sort was Pius VI (d. 1800), who was not the worst of the lot, but whose reign was lousy with fiscal corruption and nepotism. Since Pius VII (1800-1827?) we’ve had decent if not perfect men at the helm. Not sure if that good run is now over.
Somewhere the Orthodox prepare for the mother of all we-told-you-so… /snark
The Orthodox? With there 1001 Popes? No thank you very much.
The autocorrect feature was done by my sleep deprived, caffeine deprived mind. But you are right, I meant Avignon.
Why would Papal Infallibility ever need to be injected as an issue? Everything Bergolio has pushed, he has been successful with. This includes remaking the episcopacy. He is very smart with his changes. When sodomy is blessed, will this be enough? The attack on the Tridentine Mass is about theology, not Latin. I will remain Catholic, but is the Church headed by Bergolio still the Catholic Church founded by Jesus? This is the question all must eventually answer. May God give each one of us insight.
I see you understand the Orthodox as well as the media understands Catholicism. 😉
I understand the “Orthodox” far better than misguided people who wish to convert to misnamed “Orthodoxy”. Nothing against the ordinary believers of that hydra headed grouping of course.
(Yes, Don does have a bug about Orthodoxy. That goodness the topic does not arise often.)
“but is the Church headed by Bergolio still the Catholic Church founded by Jesus?”
Yep, as it was during the time of Alexander VI and any other terrible pope you care to name.
Everything Bergolio has pushed, he has been successful with.
Not seeing how you come to that conclusion.
I would take Alex VI, a mere sinner, over this demonic pope any day. We don’t just have a bad pope. We have a pope who hates Christianity and who wakes up every day trying to think of new ways to destroy it. This is not your typical “bad pope” scenario. This is something entirely new. I don’t know what our response should be, but repeating the usual spiels over and over again doesn’t help.
Patience, time and being true to the Faith ourselves.
The Church has had many bad Popes. Most of their “badness “ concerned their sinful personal actions. This is a vast difference from a Pope seeking to change Church Dogma or long settled Church teaching which is the situation we have with the present Pope. A few generations of Popes such as we have now, with their installed Bishops, and you’ll have the Church of England, only worse. There will be none left (maybe a few old buzzards like me who has no authority or influence) “to hold and teach the Catholic Faith.” Very sad, I worry for my children and grandchildren.
JRP,
If such a thing were to happen, it would make Catholicism demonstrably false via showing that the Holy Spirit does not protect the Pope from error in matters of dogma.
As Catholicism is not false it won’t happen.
QED