https://twitter.com/i/status/1388963034274701316
There is no way to reform the CIA. Bulldoze it and start from the basement up in rebuilding. Hear the sound of laughter? It is coming from China.
Trump: Miss Me Yet? A Continuing Series-73
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2021/05/02/george-w-bush-lobbies-republicans-work-joe-biden-amnesty-illegal-aliens/
Did you catch this. He says flat nothing when we discover (via a pre-emptive leak) that the IRS was working to impede the activity of tea party groups (and Eric Holder assigns the case to an Obama donor). He says flat nothing when we discover the security state was spying on the Republican presidential candidate and then spent two years manufacturing bogus criminal charges against various parties (and trying to manufacture them against the president). He says flat nothing about the virtiginous decline in ballot security. Now he just has to start lobbying in favor of measures his own congressional caucus rejected 14 years ago. Most presidents look better in retrospect than they did in the thick of political disputes. George W. Bush is intent on joining the Lyndon B. Johnson pantheon of those who look worse the longer you contemplate their activities.
George W. Bush was ALWAYS like this. Two faced. If he was a D, then the media would have had endless praise for him for the positions he took while in office.
George W Bush started the anti-American sentiment around the world because of his war-mongering and woeful persona on the international stage. Well his father got the wheels gently rolling but by the time junior came into office, he took it full-throttle.
Wow, W had the power to travel back in time and make people hate the US?
And the horrible war-monger was so good at it that there were “intellectuals” world wide, including inside the US, who insisted that the US deserved 9/11?
That is some amazingly powerful “warmongering”!
Did he also force Saddam to violate the cease-fire agreement, routinely, and gas the “marsh Arabs” (Kurds) and various other things?
In case the sarcasm isn’t drippingly obvious enough, I haven’t forgotten the American hatred that was normal in the 90s. And the 80s. And I read about the anti-American attitudes in the 70s*, too, as well as hearing about it from the uncle who went all over Europe wearing a Canadian flag, because the hatred of any American who wasn’t groveling and apologizing could get dangerous.
Back in my undergrad days, while I was taking my third year of Russian, I received a letter from the CIA at my dorm— a job offer for a position as a translator.
It turns out that my alma mater routinely forwarded the CIA the information on those students doing well in the program. This was, after all, during the death throes of the USSR.
When I spoke with one of my favorite professors about getting the letter, he smiled and said he expected as much: “they only go for the good ones”.
He also told me that should I express an interest, I should know that even before the extensive vetting process began, they would out of hand reject any applicant who had a history of illegal drug use, was homosexual, or had ever been affiliated with anti-American / communist organizations.
It was a simpler time then.
Now, it appears that they will only hire those who tick at least one of those categories.
By the way, I still have that letter, with its CIA letterhead, framed and hanging in one of the bathrooms at home…
George W. Bush has issues:
– the collapse of the Bush dynasty on his watch.
– the failed Iraq war where thousands died.
– the changing of the GOP from neo cons to working class people.
And he so desperately want’s to be loved.. he prostitutes himself to the Left. End of Story.
Drippingly obvious and in usual perfect form. No sane person thought the US deserved 9/11. That was not the narrative pushed in the MSM media. Anywhere in the west. Other than by your alleged fringe intellectuals, hippies, commies, Muslims…Iraq had little benefit for minorities, it destroyed the Christian Arabs. It gained a whole lot though for the oil industry and goodness knows. Get real- Bush reason for war was not to save the Kurds. Bush never gave a clear reason. Which is why the anti-american sentiment grew and became mainstream- everywhere. To the point where it eventually handed the US Obama on a silver platter.
The left has succeeded. Their goal is to undermine the west. Not only do all of their actions point in that direction, they will openly admit it if you ask them in the right way (ex. “Does America deserve to be successful, given its history?”)
Iraq had little benefit for minorities, it destroyed the Christian Arabs
Well, other than the whole “not having women found attractive by those with power kidnapped off the street, in full daylight” and the “those who annoy someone in power aren’t found dead, if they are ever found, with their joints drilled out by power drills” type benefits. Oh, and the “annoy an official, be forced to watch your adolescent daughter raped to death by a group of prisoners.” Or the stuff with car batteries, jumper cables, and intimate bits.
That the vocal Christian leaders of Iraq allied themselves with flatly horrific forces is not a huge positive point. In fact, it’s flatly horrific and embarrassing– on par with those churches who allied themselves with the Nazi controlled governments and ignored the slaughter and abuse.
It gained a whole lot though for the oil industry and goodness knows.
Source, please?
I have seen the claim, often, but never with support.
Get real- Bush reason for war was not to save the Kurds.
A brilliant rebuttal to something I never said.
That would be one of the minorities you claimed were so helped by Saddam.
Which is why the anti-american sentiment grew and became mainstream- everywhere.
Because it wasn’t already there.
And to heck with the first person accounts going back to the 70s.
Let’s see, who I am going to believe… you, saying things that can’t align with the stuff I saw in high school, before I knew there was a W Bush, or the relatives who were out and about giving first hand accounts, and the books, and other primary to secondary sources that said that the world has a problem with America, because this dirty trash country doesn’t know it’s PLACE and won’t apologize for being a dirty peasant nation who refuses to kneel to their clear superiority?
I sometimes wonder if Europe will ever forgive the US for saving it. Twice.
(I also wonder exactly how much my Scottish great grandfather drank after signing up for the draft for WWII, a few years after escaping Scotland, with his family.)
I wouldn’t be saying what I’m saying if I didn’t see it or read it. From my part of the world and from my background and my POV. Much like most people commenting here. So Im not going to waste my time talking rubbish for the sake of talking rubbish.
I’m not stupid. You don’t want proof and you don’t want to listen to someone else’s point of view Foxfier. You want confrontation. And it’s targeted with you.
I’ve copped sarcasm and insult from you time and again. And I’ve let it pass time and again, and I’ve tried to respond to you with decency.
I’ve seen you tear shreds off other commenters for the exact same behaviour you are exhibiting. And nobody says anything to you.
Please don’t converse with me anymore. You are not a as nice person to converse with.
And a word of advice which you probably won’t take, but I’m giving it anyway- if you don’t rip into others because you don’t agree with them, they actually might respect and listen to what you have to say.
Ezabelle, try not to let her get to you. For her, her opinion is the only opinion. Don’t let the snark, the strawmen and sealioning get to you, it’s not worth your effort.
Play nice folks. Deal with issues and not personalities. We are all friends here.
JFK, I am quite willing to listen to counter arguments, as opposed to unsupported accusations.
Ezabelle-
you think I’m wrong, then support it.
I didn’t even bleepin’ like Dubya. That does nothing to support the idea that he’s evil because Some Random Person said so, much less when I bought the drinks for the poor bastards that had to clean up the bodies from the slaughter chambers that Saddam put in.
I give zero figs for your “point of view,” I want evidence. I want objective support.
I can give you that, for the murder rooms– although I am hesitant because it will make you puke your guts out if you have a shred of basic humanity in you.
You are not a as nice person to converse with.
No, I am not nice. I am not “nice” at all. I try to be good. I support the truth, and facts, and not the things that are COMFORTABLE to believe.
I do not try to harm people, but I will not stand by while innocents are attacked just because they are a comfortable target.
You can’t deal with the facts such as the whole “ugly American,” meaning that Americans walk around acting like they’re as good as any other man born, has been a thing for half a century?
Not. My. Problem.
My sister freaking DIED being nice. And was attacked afterwards for it.
Your demands for “Nice” can go die in a fire.
<II’ve seen you tear shreds off other commenters for the exact same behaviour you are exhibiting. And nobody says anything to you.
You think you got something?
Then write it.
Support it.
It’s objective, deal with it.
….or it’s your emotional response, and not objective. And not the same at all.
“Play nice folks.”
“Your demands for “Nice” can go die in a fire.”
Doesn’t seem to embody the spirit of dialog and goodwill.
Foxfier,
I mean this not as criticism, but as a genuine piece of advice regarding persuasion. Calls for dealing with “facts”, “objective” things instead of “emotional responses” only works if you don’t add your own emotions into it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Pathos in arguments, it’s an essential part of rhetoric. Similarly there is nothing wrong with putting aside rhetoric and making the discussion purely about facts and logic. But when you demand facts and logic only from others but simultaneously use hyperbole, sarcasm, references to your personal history, and other forms of rhetoric, it does not make you look like an honest debater. It’s kind of like if someone says something like “now unlike my opponent I won’t engage in mudslinging so I won’t call him an idiot, even if it’s clear that he would be deserved to be called such a thing.” Having your rhetorical cake and eating it too.
In most cases it’s best to stick to calm discussion of facts and logic, without rhetorical flourishes on either side, or instead to make rhetorical flourishes while simultaneously allowing your opponent to do the same.
Doesn’t seem to embody the spirit of dialog and goodwill.
You are quite welcome to actually EMBODY the demands.
Demanding that I be “nice” when those fighting quite literal rape and torture bands are slandered— without any sort of support? When the assertions require time travel?
If your definition of “nice” requires violence against the most basic of truth– please explain it.
Rudolph-
Again.
Offer support for statements.
Also, a flat statement of the facts of what Saddam’s gov’t did is not pathos.
Absolutely nothing I mentioned is not objective truth supported by medical reports. Usually post mortem.
There are many reasons that I am very, very angry at those who want to explain away Saddam. Most of them are not American, but are female corpses.
NONE of them are rhetorical flourishes.
I was one of the poor bastards that did unofficial support to the even more poor bastards that cleaned out the murder chambers.
Die in a fire would be a mercy.
Take a step back and calm down. I’m not even discussing Saddam or Iraq, but only your persuasive techniques, and this should be obvious from what I wrote.
As for Pathos, what else do you call this?
My sister freaking DIED being nice. And was attacked afterwards for it.
Your demands for “Nice” can go die in a fire.
I am truly sorry for whatever happened to your sister but if we remove all the emotional content from the discussion, it’s not clear how what happened to her has any relevance to the discussion. The only reasons to bring this up would be to express your anger, or to play on the emotions of your audience.
Of course, rhetorical flourishes also appear in most of your other comments. They aren’t the whole comment, that is why they are “flourishes”, but they certain are there.
Rudolph-
the issue is that your desire to change tactics is amazingly one-sided.
As for Pathos, what else do you call this?
Quite literally none of the horror stories I shared were anything but try not to scare the horses fact.
It’s called facts.
Ugly facts, but facts.
When your assertions aim in only one direction, they are not objective.
At this point I’m not even sure if you’re even reading what anyone else is posting. You’re treating this as if everyone in the comment thread is trying to convince you that Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was free of atrocities, when it is clear that no one has made that claim and that most people aren’t trying to discuss Iraq at all. The first time you brought that line of argument up it was in response to Ezabelle merely saying that George W. Bush damaged the world’s perception of America and was a war monger, which doesn’t necessarily imply that Iraq was a great place to be.
It’s clear that you have a very clear connection to this topic and that you get very angered by people you think are denying what happened, but if you take a step back and calm down you might be able to see what people have actually written.
Trump: Miss Me Yet? A Continuing Series-73
Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
May 3, 2021
23 Comments
There is no way to reform the CIA. Bulldoze it and start from the basement up in rebuilding. Hear the sound of laughter? It is coming from China.
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Surprise, Surprise
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Baris and Barnes
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Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Monday, May 3, AD 2021 3 Comments
Ah, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb that tells us revenge is a dish that is best served
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23 COMMENTS
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
ART DECO
https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2021/05/02/george-w-bush-lobbies-republicans-work-joe-biden-amnesty-illegal-aliens/
Did you catch this. He says flat nothing when we discover (via a pre-emptive leak) that the IRS was working to impede the activity of tea party groups (and Eric Holder assigns the case to an Obama donor). He says flat nothing when we discover the security state was spying on the Republican presidential candidate and then spent two years manufacturing bogus criminal charges against various parties (and trying to manufacture them against the president). He says flat nothing about the virtiginous decline in ballot security. Now he just has to start lobbying in favor of measures his own congressional caucus rejected 14 years ago. Most presidents look better in retrospect than they did in the thick of political disputes. George W. Bush is intent on joining the Lyndon B. Johnson pantheon of those who look worse the longer you contemplate their activities.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
JOHN F. KENNEDY
George W. Bush was ALWAYS like this. Two faced. If he was a D, then the media would have had endless praise for him for the positions he took while in office.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
EZABELLE
George W Bush started the anti-American sentiment around the world because of his war-mongering and woeful persona on the international stage. Well his father got the wheels gently rolling but by the time junior came into office, he took it full-throttle.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
Wow, W had the power to travel back in time and make people hate the US?
And the horrible war-monger was so good at it that there were “intellectuals” world wide, including inside the US, who insisted that the US deserved 9/11?
That is some amazingly powerful “warmongering”!
Did he also force Saddam to violate the cease-fire agreement, routinely, and gas the “marsh Arabs” (Kurds) and various other things?
In case the sarcasm isn’t drippingly obvious enough, I haven’t forgotten the American hatred that was normal in the 90s. And the 80s. And I read about the anti-American attitudes in the 70s*, too, as well as hearing about it from the uncle who went all over Europe wearing a Canadian flag, because the hatred of any American who wasn’t groveling and apologizing could get dangerous.
contemporary sources. Mostly Reader’s Digest.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
CLINTON
Back in my undergrad days, while I was taking my third year of Russian, I received a letter from the CIA at my dorm— a job offer for a position as a translator.
It turns out that my alma mater routinely forwarded the CIA the information on those students doing well in the program. This was, after all, during the death throes of the USSR.
When I spoke with one of my favorite professors about getting the letter, he smiled and said he expected as much: “they only go for the good ones”.
He also told me that should I express an interest, I should know that even before the extensive vetting process began, they would out of hand reject any applicant who had a history of illegal drug use, was homosexual, or had ever been affiliated with anti-American / communist organizations.
It was a simpler time then.
Now, it appears that they will only hire those who tick at least one of those categories.
By the way, I still have that letter, with its CIA letterhead, framed and hanging in one of the bathrooms at home…
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
DAVID WS
George W. Bush has issues:
– the collapse of the Bush dynasty on his watch.
– the failed Iraq war where thousands died.
– the changing of the GOP from neo cons to working class people.
And he so desperately want’s to be loved.. he prostitutes himself to the Left. End of Story.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
EZABELLE
Drippingly obvious and in usual perfect form. No sane person thought the US deserved 9/11. That was not the narrative pushed in the MSM media. Anywhere in the west. Other than by your alleged fringe intellectuals, hippies, commies, Muslims…Iraq had little benefit for minorities, it destroyed the Christian Arabs. It gained a whole lot though for the oil industry and goodness knows. Get real- Bush reason for war was not to save the Kurds. Bush never gave a clear reason. Which is why the anti-american sentiment grew and became mainstream- everywhere. To the point where it eventually handed the US Obama on a silver platter.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
RUDOLPH HARRIER
The left has succeeded. Their goal is to undermine the west. Not only do all of their actions point in that direction, they will openly admit it if you ask them in the right way (ex. “Does America deserve to be successful, given its history?”)
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
Iraq had little benefit for minorities, it destroyed the Christian Arabs
Well, other than the whole “not having women found attractive by those with power kidnapped off the street, in full daylight” and the “those who annoy someone in power aren’t found dead, if they are ever found, with their joints drilled out by power drills” type benefits. Oh, and the “annoy an official, be forced to watch your adolescent daughter raped to death by a group of prisoners.” Or the stuff with car batteries, jumper cables, and intimate bits.
That the vocal Christian leaders of Iraq allied themselves with flatly horrific forces is not a huge positive point. In fact, it’s flatly horrific and embarrassing– on par with those churches who allied themselves with the Nazi controlled governments and ignored the slaughter and abuse.
It gained a whole lot though for the oil industry and goodness knows.
Source, please?
I have seen the claim, often, but never with support.
Get real- Bush reason for war was not to save the Kurds.
A brilliant rebuttal to something I never said.
That would be one of the minorities you claimed were so helped by Saddam.
Which is why the anti-american sentiment grew and became mainstream- everywhere.
Because it wasn’t already there.
And to heck with the first person accounts going back to the 70s.
Let’s see, who I am going to believe… you, saying things that can’t align with the stuff I saw in high school, before I knew there was a W Bush, or the relatives who were out and about giving first hand accounts, and the books, and other primary to secondary sources that said that the world has a problem with America, because this dirty trash country doesn’t know it’s PLACE and won’t apologize for being a dirty peasant nation who refuses to kneel to their clear superiority?
I sometimes wonder if Europe will ever forgive the US for saving it. Twice.
(I also wonder exactly how much my Scottish great grandfather drank after signing up for the draft for WWII, a few years after escaping Scotland, with his family.)
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
EZABELLE
I wouldn’t be saying what I’m saying if I didn’t see it or read it. From my part of the world and from my background and my POV. Much like most people commenting here. So Im not going to waste my time talking rubbish for the sake of talking rubbish.
I’m not stupid. You don’t want proof and you don’t want to listen to someone else’s point of view Foxfier. You want confrontation. And it’s targeted with you.
I’ve copped sarcasm and insult from you time and again. And I’ve let it pass time and again, and I’ve tried to respond to you with decency.
I’ve seen you tear shreds off other commenters for the exact same behaviour you are exhibiting. And nobody says anything to you.
Please don’t converse with me anymore. You are not a as nice person to converse with.
And a word of advice which you probably won’t take, but I’m giving it anyway- if you don’t rip into others because you don’t agree with them, they actually might respect and listen to what you have to say.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
JOHN F. KENNEDY
Ezabelle, try not to let her get to you. For her, her opinion is the only opinion. Don’t let the snark, the strawmen and sealioning get to you, it’s not worth your effort.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
DONALD R. MCCLAREY
Play nice folks. Deal with issues and not personalities. We are all friends here.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
JFK, I am quite willing to listen to counter arguments, as opposed to unsupported accusations.
Ezabelle-
you think I’m wrong, then support it.
I didn’t even bleepin’ like Dubya. That does nothing to support the idea that he’s evil because Some Random Person said so, much less when I bought the drinks for the poor bastards that had to clean up the bodies from the slaughter chambers that Saddam put in.
I give zero figs for your “point of view,” I want evidence. I want objective support.
I can give you that, for the murder rooms– although I am hesitant because it will make you puke your guts out if you have a shred of basic humanity in you.
You are not a as nice person to converse with.
No, I am not nice. I am not “nice” at all. I try to be good. I support the truth, and facts, and not the things that are COMFORTABLE to believe.
I do not try to harm people, but I will not stand by while innocents are attacked just because they are a comfortable target.
You can’t deal with the facts such as the whole “ugly American,” meaning that Americans walk around acting like they’re as good as any other man born, has been a thing for half a century?
Not. My. Problem.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
My sister freaking DIED being nice. And was attacked afterwards for it.
Your demands for “Nice” can go die in a fire.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
<II’ve seen you tear shreds off other commenters for the exact same behaviour you are exhibiting. And nobody says anything to you.
You think you got something?
Then write it.
Support it.
It’s objective, deal with it.
….or it’s your emotional response, and not objective. And not the same at all.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
JOHN F. KENNEDY
“Play nice folks.”
“Your demands for “Nice” can go die in a fire.”
Doesn’t seem to embody the spirit of dialog and goodwill.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
RUDOLPH HARRIER
Foxfier,
I mean this not as criticism, but as a genuine piece of advice regarding persuasion. Calls for dealing with “facts”, “objective” things instead of “emotional responses” only works if you don’t add your own emotions into it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Pathos in arguments, it’s an essential part of rhetoric. Similarly there is nothing wrong with putting aside rhetoric and making the discussion purely about facts and logic. But when you demand facts and logic only from others but simultaneously use hyperbole, sarcasm, references to your personal history, and other forms of rhetoric, it does not make you look like an honest debater. It’s kind of like if someone says something like “now unlike my opponent I won’t engage in mudslinging so I won’t call him an idiot, even if it’s clear that he would be deserved to be called such a thing.” Having your rhetorical cake and eating it too.
In most cases it’s best to stick to calm discussion of facts and logic, without rhetorical flourishes on either side, or instead to make rhetorical flourishes while simultaneously allowing your opponent to do the same.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
Doesn’t seem to embody the spirit of dialog and goodwill.
You are quite welcome to actually EMBODY the demands.
Demanding that I be “nice” when those fighting quite literal rape and torture bands are slandered— without any sort of support? When the assertions require time travel?
If your definition of “nice” requires violence against the most basic of truth– please explain it.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
Rudolph-
Again.
Offer support for statements.
Also, a flat statement of the facts of what Saddam’s gov’t did is not pathos.
Absolutely nothing I mentioned is not objective truth supported by medical reports. Usually post mortem.
There are many reasons that I am very, very angry at those who want to explain away Saddam. Most of them are not American, but are female corpses.
NONE of them are rhetorical flourishes.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
I was one of the poor bastards that did unofficial support to the even more poor bastards that cleaned out the murder chambers.
Die in a fire would be a mercy.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
RUDOLPH HARRIER
Take a step back and calm down. I’m not even discussing Saddam or Iraq, but only your persuasive techniques, and this should be obvious from what I wrote.
As for Pathos, what else do you call this?
My sister freaking DIED being nice. And was attacked afterwards for it.
Your demands for “Nice” can go die in a fire.
I am truly sorry for whatever happened to your sister but if we remove all the emotional content from the discussion, it’s not clear how what happened to her has any relevance to the discussion. The only reasons to bring this up would be to express your anger, or to play on the emotions of your audience.
Of course, rhetorical flourishes also appear in most of your other comments. They aren’t the whole comment, that is why they are “flourishes”, but they certain are there.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
FOXFIER
Rudolph-
the issue is that your desire to change tactics is amazingly one-sided.
As for Pathos, what else do you call this?
Quite literally none of the horror stories I shared were anything but try not to scare the horses fact.
It’s called facts.
Ugly facts, but facts.
When your assertions aim in only one direction, they are not objective.
Monday, May 3, AD 2021
RUDOLPH HARRIER
At this point I’m not even sure if you’re even reading what anyone else is posting.
Because direct response to assertions, with quotes, isn’t enough?
Your excessive soft-sell of the false claim not withstanding, feel free to actually support countering claims.
As opposed to name slinging. (Not like I’m not familiar with that.)
It’s clear that you have a very clear connection to this topic and that you get very angered by people you think are denying what happened, but if you take a step back and calm down you might be able to see what people have actually written.
I am angry because I DID look at what folks wrote.
And responded to it.
Directly.
With quotes.
And was scolded for it, without context or quotes.
Hm.
Interesting bug.
Seeing if it does it for typed comment.
Does not appear so.
Husband pointed out that he joined the Navy, Pre-W, when the world hated America.
Guess he’s to be dismissed, too.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
Someone says, hey, look–
these people did Really Bad Things.
Like, cannot type about it, bad things.
And you ignore them.
The things MY MARINES had to clean up….
You can either go “Oh, they had Catholics, anything far to the north of what the worst slander of the Spanish Inqusition was justified”– or you can recognize that someone claiming to be not entirely malicious to those who are Christian does not baptize the entire organization, and admit that kidnap, rape and murder of those attractive to those in power is not excused.
Foxfire, I’m sorry that you’re battling these demons but no one here knows what you’re talking about and no one is defending it. I suggest you take a prayer break.
JFK-
got to here:
https://the-american-catholic.com/2021/05/03/trump-miss-me-yet-a-continuing-series-73/#comment-363403
and read