Par for the course for the current gang running the Vatican.
PopeWatch: Leaving Out Christ
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
Don’t they know? CE: Christ Era, BCE: Before Christ Era. BTW, US Constitution ends with “Year of Our Lord.”. Guy, Texas
It is fascinating that the best anyone can do is essentially re-present and rename the dating system in an attempt to mask the fundamental truth – that Christ is the dividing line of history, full stop.
I suppose no one wants to go full French Revolution and reset the years?
I find it hilarious that the term “Common Era” is used, since the only thing “common” about this era, and the calendar based upon it, is Christ.
I’m amazed that they haven’t referred to Christ as, “Oh Christ? That’s old news.”
Not surprising. The current gang insists on there being a BF (before Francis) and AF (after Francis) of course they’re ok with BCE.
BTW, this was only in the English notes and in none of the other translations. So whoever is responsible for the English version should be removed. It also occurred in at least one of B16’s documents too, again in the English notations.
I’ve seen that in some Catholic publications given out at our parish. I remember something for the youth that used BCE/CE. Yes, it’s dishonest and not saying what is obviously the reference point. But I’m OK with it. We are moving out of the Christian era, largely because the Left is doing yeoman’s work rolling back our values to a pre-Christian time. Even when I was in college, secular and increasingly critical of the West and America that things were, we still learned that the Christian faith, fictional though it was, did bring some positives. And that the West/America were net boons for the world. That is not what my sons learned in college today. Almost the opposite. So I suppose it isn’t the most honest to continue saying we’re in a ‘Christian Era’.
I notice that a lot of the Church’s doctrines and teachings are delineated by “BV2” and “AV2”
JFK- I think our time is being sh
That is not what my sons learned in college today. Almost the opposite.
Indoctrination rather than education is a sign of the ending of the four year brick and mortar college.
JFK- I believe our time is being shaped by persons of middling authority who decline to stand for what (and Who) is good.
This Vatican translator is an example
As an employee of the Vatican, Christ is at least your “brand” and you didn’t even support the brand. Incredible.
There is an actual origin point for the introduction of “CE” and “BCE.” It’s not too difficult to work out.
Regardless, if I may address Dave G.’s point: we are not in a “Christian era” per se, as the identification of the years was always anno Domini, “in the year of [our] Lord.” Other abbreviations were also popular at one time: “ARSH” for “anno restauratae salutis humanae” [“in the year of the restoration of human salvation”], for example.
To be excruciatingly correct, one was supposed to write “AD” before the year and “BC” after the year.
So, rather than being the name of an era–not to split hairs!–the abbreviation was meant to count the years from the birth of Christ.
“the abbreviation was meant to count the years from the birth of Christ.”
And they aren’t even accurate, since Dionysus Exigius — the monk who invented the B.C. and A.D. system, was at least 4 to 6 years off in his calculation of when Christ was born. He made the Roman year 754 his A.D.1, but that can’t be right because Herod the Great, who tried to kill the infant Jesus, died in Roman year 750 or thereabouts.
Fr. J, yeah, I know that. The point is, the BC/AD was still universally used, even in my college days in the late 80s. Even then, as focus continued to emphasize more and more the bad and negative of the West/America, the whole – as well as the Christian Faith – were largely understood as net gains for the world. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light and all. When pressure was put to change to CE/BCE, I objected, and saw that as an early defeat. Now I realize it’s accurate. We did live in ‘the Christian Era’, broadly understood. That is no longer the case. The world has effectively gone back to GO in terms of its values and beliefs and world view, though with a secularized spin I’ll admit.
Dave G.,
Absolutely! My point–not very well expressed, I’ll admit–was that no change in civilization or culture can erase the fact that Christ has come and wrought our salvation. Willy nilly, the years from that moment on are all “anno Domini.”
Elaine, that is the consensus view nowadays, without a doubt. It’s not established “beyond a shadow of a doubt” (to use our host’s idiom), though. The death of Herod the Great is calculated in part by the passing of a comet that has been calculated to be around 6 B.C., if those calculations are indeed accurate. From thence springs the accusation that Little Ol’ Dionysius (that’s what “Exiguus” means, more or less) was off by a few years since he–much closer in time to the sources for Herod’s life than our own dear astronomers–believed he knew when Herod the Great kicked it and went off to a well-deserved rest among the flames and ashes.
It’s not a matter of Faith, of course, so not all that important, but it has been a stick (or maybe twig) used to ridicule the whole “BC, AD” system, starting around the time of Voltaire (probably, knowing him–I have no idea, though).
For what it’s worth…. I saw a video series by a Jewish host explain that BCE and CE were originally proposed by Jewish scholars, not atheists. He said that Jews do not object to a date system based on the birth of Jesus, since the rest of the world is in agreement on doing so. But they did not want to refer to Jesus as “Christ” or as “Lord”, which BC and AD do.
Which again calls into question why a Vatican document would show such reluctance…
I’ve often marveled at the B/CE phenomenon. It is literally the Gregorian calendar–no changes whatsoever–just different year appellations, to disguise where it came from.
They’re using the Church’s work, but refusing to give credit for it.
There’s a word for that. It starts with a P. It was even in the vocabulary list from earlier today. (Then again, only 13% of adults even knew what that word was back in 1972, so maybe it’s no surprise that so many today see nothing wrong with the act itself.)