This is what happens when a Pope becomes a faction leader rather than a Pope for all Catholics. Worst Pope ever.
How to Start a Schism In One Easy Step
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
They realize that they’re in trouble. That the Traditional Mass is attracting young families and new priests, and that the V2 Novus Ordo mass doesn’t have the same.
“It was Envy that crucified Christ.”
Francis is giving Rodrigo Borgia a run for his money.
The schism began with Vatican II with its program to revolutionize the Catholic Church by making it more Protestant and Communist. This program has now reached its apogee with “Pope” Francis the usurper and his advocacy of secular and Communist values which directly opposed the teaching of Christ.
FSSP and SSPX and their like are the closest things we have to pre-Vatican II Catholicism. I think these traditional orders should join ranks, make Archbishop Vigano their leader and separate themselves from Rome until it returns to orthodox Catholicism.
Rodrigo was personally immortal. He didn’t try to tamper with the Deposit of Faith. I’ll take Rodrigo.
Sorry, make that “ immoral”.
So what did we do to deserve the Worst President Ever AND the Worst Pope Ever at the same time? Well, if “we” means “the American public in general and American/European Catholics in particular” I can think of several things (tolerance/endorsement of abortion, contraception, homosexuality, and other sins). But if “we” means “those faithful Catholics and citizens who’ve spent their whole lives trying to do the right thing and now get nothing but grief for it”, that’s another question, for which I really don’t have an answer…. does anyone?
Francis performs well as a recruiter for SSPX
Catholics have not called this life a Vale of Tears for nothing Elaine! Lincoln nailed it when he said The Almighty Has His Own Purposes. Persecution has usually been the precursor to dramatic growth by the Church and as for the US, the poet Richard Hovey speaks for me:
Unmanifest Destiny
TO what new fates, my country, far
And unforeseen of foe or friend,
Beneath what unexpected star
Compelled to what unchosen end.
Across the sea that knows no beach, 5
The Admiral of Nations guides
Thy blind obedient keels to reach
The harbor where thy future rides!
The guns that spoke at Lexington
Knew not that God was planning then 10
The trumpet word of Jefferson
To bugle forth the rights of men.
To them that wept and cursed Bull Run,
What was it but despair and shame?
Who saw behind the cloud the sun? 15
Who knew that God was in the flame?
Had not defeat upon defeat,
Disaster on disaster come,
The slave’s emancipated feet
Had never marched behind the drum. 20
There is a Hand that bends our deeds
To mightier issues than we planned;
Each son that triumphs, each that bleeds,
My country, serves It’s dark command.
I do not know beneath what sky 25
Nor on what seas shall be thy fate;
I only know it shall he high,
I only know it shall be great.
Rodrigo was personally immortal. He didn’t try to tamper with the Deposit of Faith. I’ll take Rodrigo.
True. Peter betrayed, but Peter wept.
What does “expel” mean exactly? Are they simply kicking these priests out of the Catholic Church? Are they saying they will still be Catholic but not be allowed to function as priests? Are they excommunicating them?
Elaine Krewer.
We hold fast and take the lumps as they come. We remain faithful in this trial. We use Job as our partner in this walk through the valley.
We remember the promises of Christ.
The victory already gained.
The eternal JOY that comes to those who hold fast and become not discouraged.
Pray for this pontificate.
For this Pope.
That is our task as set before us and commanded us by our True Shepherd, Jesus the Christ.
“Father forgive them..for they know not what they do.”
What does “expel” mean exactly? Are they simply kicking these priests out of the Catholic Church? Are they saying they will still be Catholic but not be allowed to function as priests? Are they excommunicating them?
Debarred from using diocesan parishes, missions, and chapels, I gather. The odious Archbishop kvetches they decline to concelebrate. The whole point of FSSP is to offer the Mass in the Traditional-rite.
Their order is being kicked out. The parish(es) they run are being taken from them and they won’t be allowed to offer the sacraments or permitted to say public Masses since they will only offer the Traditional Mass (in Latin). I don’t think they owned any of the buildings where they lived or worshiped. It is good for them that this Bishop doesn’t have temporal powers to do them harm.
The New Mass can be said in any language, but In Rome they are now in the process of banning Latin from being said at Mass except (for now) limited prayers of the faithful.
“Peter betrayed, but Peter wept.“
Bergoglio betrays while faithful Catholics weep.
A pope can’t start a schism, any more than a tree can start a splinter. He can be a jerk, though, and lead the faithful poorly. I’m likely to always be a sinner, and I’m sure there are a dozen accidental heresies floating around in my understanding of theology, but I’ll never be a schismatic.
Pope Urban VI was a jerk. Saint Catherine of Siena remained obedient to him, with much prayer and fasting. She’s our model.
She’s our model.
Please yourself.
I’m fairly certain that God understands Latin and other languages.
I think the archbishop is being capricious and uncharitable.
There once [I’m so old I remember when the US was a fee country, governed by laws not TDS maniacs and Chinese puppets] there was a legal concept, ‘Actus non facit reum, nisi mens sit rea.’
Pinky,
Correct me if I have it bass ackwards. I think the Teaching is that we sin because we are sinners; not that we are sinners because we sin.
Obviously, I aren’t too smart.
So, ‘splain to me how/why your Pope conclusion is different from Nixon’s saying, “If the president does it, that means it’s not illegal.’ (see April 6, 1977).
Just asking. I’m trying to be humble and obedient and will not do otherwise until the next time one of them gives an unlawful order.
The Catholic Maronite mass is said in Aramaic, not Arabic. The traditionalist priests could use that in their argument.
Pope Urban VI was a jerk
That is putting it charitably. His loony tunes behavior led to the Great Schism.
T. Shaw – Well, if my comment about sin was inaccurate, count that on my list of accidental heresies. As for the second question,
“Can. 333 §1. By virtue of his office, the Roman Pontiff not only possesses power over the universal Church but also obtains the primacy of ordinary power over all particular churches and groups of them. Moreover, this primacy strengthens and protects the proper, ordinary, and immediate power which bishops possess in the particular churches entrusted to their care.
Ҥ2. In fulfilling the office of supreme pastor of the Church, the Roman Pontiff is always joined in communion with the other bishops and with the universal Church. He nevertheless has the right, according to the needs of the Church, to determine the manner, whether personal or collegial, of exercising this office.
“§3. No appeal or recourse is permitted against a sentence or decree of the Roman Pontiff.”
§3. No appeal or recourse is permitted against a sentence or decree of the Roman Pontiff.”
Except to future Pontiffs who have often reversed what a prior Pope has done. I assume that God would also have a yea or nay as to what His Vicar has attempted to do. Common sense also enters in. If a Pope were to order that all Catholics have to paint their bottoms yellow, I hope few of us would obey. The Pope of course cannot be acting ultra vires beyond the authority of his office. Saint Newman on infallibility is a good resource in this area:
https://the-american-catholic.com/2019/10/13/saint-john-henry-cardinal-newman-on-papal-infallibility/
One of the big, red, flashing signs that Canon Lawyers tend to give is you really need to be trained before trying to read Canon Law.
In this case, Pinky, you could probably start by reading the introduction to the Code of Canon Law, and you’d find its subject matter is basically “how to do the paperwork for the Church.”
https://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_introduction_en.html
Since schism was defined by Jerome as rejecting licit authority of a Bishop (and especially of the Pope), the Pope could in deed enter it by declaring he didn’t HAVE authority that he does.
NOT “worst pope ever.” Worst anti-pope ever.
Bergoglio knows exactly what he is doing. I am astounded there are faithful Catholics who still believe that Francis is merely stupid or a “bad Pope”. This man is diabolical; he despises the Catholic faith. I don’t think he is “afraid” of those who love the TLM; he does detest them, but he’s delighted to (try to) drive them out of the Church because he knows that schism will be the sure result. Bergoglio does not dream of a “pure” Church, filled only with Modernists. He dreams of a Church in shambles.
Bergolio will speak involking infalliblity if he feels the need. He hasn’t needed to, his destruction and evil statements are working just fine, as is. As a Thomist, and subscribing to the principal of non-contradiction, the validity of any of his pronouncements must be measured by the statements of his predecessors . Truth does not change”. When he contradicts a solemn teaching of a predecessor, it is void. My attempt at maintaining sanity. Whaddya Think, am I off base.
Did Jesus see or know in advance the betrayal of Judas?
Does not God know in advance the activity, the scandal of each soul, our own betrayals?
He is fully aware of the current helmsman at the tiller of His Church.
I take great comfort in that.
I truly love the extraordinary form, TLM.
That is my Mass of choice and if an evil element tries to dismantle it, it will not cease to be.
A smaller faithful Church. The remnant. This could be what is in store for Catholics. Underground possibly.
China as a foretaste of what’s to come.
Be Joyful.
Christ has overcome the world.
“I think the Teaching is that we sin because we are sinners; not that we are sinners because we sin.”
Before receiving Baptism, everyone is a sinner. Whenever a person commits a sin, they have sinned because they chose to sin, not because they couldn’t help it. Once a person is baptized, he is still capable of sinning, but God’s grace makes it possible for a person to avoid sin for the rest of their life. The Protestant doctrine regarding sin and justification is that the person who has “accepted Christ” is still a sinner, but God covers over his sins. Catholic doctrine says that the man in a state of grace is participating in the Communion of Saints, though still being capable of losing grace through sin. Only one of these doctrines can possibly be true.
@T Shaw – your quote was missing some words, I think:
Actus reus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea.
An act guilty does not make guilt unless the mind (intention) may be guilty.
Cannot find the article now but the gist was PF has a list for 3rd orders. No abbot or superior for life. The members must have more say in selection of such, and the rule must be more flexible. IOW he is not for reform so much as control and ultimately could change the whole order or worse. This article was in a secular paper so by 3rd orders it could not only mean that but any religious order. Secular papers are not known for having accurate reports on religions.
So many good thought provoking comments,
This stands out for me:” Whenever a person commits a sin, they have sinned because they chose to sin, not because they couldn’t help it“ from John Cassini
This really applies to the homosexualit creed that “God made them that way”. In other words they have no fear or responsibility for sinful behavior. – not sinful and God wills it
Anzlyne:
“This really applies to the homosexualist creed that “God made them that way”. In other words they have no fear or responsibility for sinful behavior. – not sinful and God wills it”
Exactly. They have to (a) first convince themselves that what they do is not an offense against God, and (b) convince or coerce everyone else to affirm them in this fantasy. Because God made their hearts just like everyone else’s, and deep in that heart they KNOW, consciously or otherwise, that what they do is an abomination. What a sad, miserable way to live.
Of course it is possible that homosexual appetites have a genetic source, we just don’t know. But even if that were true this alone is hardly a defense for behavior. After all, pedophilia might have a genetic source too. We are responsible for our actions regardless of our appetites or their sources.
Of course it is possible that homosexual appetites have a genetic source, we just don’t know.
No more heritable than other dispositions and behaviors. The male twin studies vary in their results. Discordance is more common than concordant homosexuality in just about all of them.