65

How Many Lights?

Dave Griffey at Daffey Thoughts explains why the Left wishes to impose conformity to manifest absurdities:

 

We in the Christian West, including the United States, are under assault from a largely Marxist driven, Bolshevik inspired revolution. That revolution long ago stole the hearts and minds of our ruling classes, our educators, entertainers, poets and dreamers. The reasons are too many to get into.

I never went full blown ‘Commie-pinko’ conspiracy until the Transgender issue. That’s when I realized it was just like my friend from the former Soviet Union described. In the USSR, he said, they taught you, among other things, absolute rubbish. Real stupidity. Like squares are round. Something so against all science, religion, common sense, and real life experience that even HBO talk show hosts wouldn’t believe it. The purpose was to get you to submit to something you knew to be false. If you would fight for round squares, if you would ostracize those who refuse to confess the roundness of squares, and you would completely fall behind the state’s insistence that squares are and always have been round, then you’ll fall in line behind anything.

When Obama and the Left hoisted Transgender normality on us, when the usual ‘scientific’ venues changed reality in lockstep with the demands of the Left, and when they went straight to pen and phone to make sure this new round square was obeyed or else, I could no longer deny the obvious.

The joining of the old post-AIDS notion that who we desire to have sex with is a physiological matter, with the idea that our physical bodies are irrelevant to our gender reality, should be the final signal that sets off a giant “Warning, Warning, Danger, Danger!”

Of course Hollywood, the Media, Academia and much of our public institutions are all firmly on board, which makes it tough. Even if Hollywood is in full damage control mode, and attempts are being made to sustain its vital role as crucial member of the propaganda ministry, there is still the lumbering forward. This movement won’t give up any time soon.

At some point, people have to get wise. Whether they do before it’s too late is the only question.

 

Go here to read the rest.  The breaking of the will of one man or an entire population is accomplished by making them accept as true what they know is false:

 

What I didn’t put in the report was that at the end he gave me a choice – between a life of comfort or more torture. All I had to do was to say that I could see five lights when, in fact, there were only four.
You didn’t say it?
No! No. But I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all! But more than that, I believed that I could see five lights.

Jean Luc Picard, Star Trek the Next Generation, Chain of Command

 

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Donald R. McClarey

Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three and happily married for 35 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.

65 Comments

  1. If I could only muster this boys faith;
    Saint Jose Sanchez-

    Boldness in Defense of the Faith

    On the way to execution, soldiers struck him savagely with sharp machetes. With every blow, the young boy cried out, “Viva Cristo Rey!” When he got to the cemetery, he was bleeding heavily. His torturers had also cut off the soles of his feet and forced him to walk on salt. The boy screamed with pain but would not give in. As the road was nothing but rocks and dirt, the stones where he had walked were soaked in his blood. The soldiers said: “If you shout, ‘Death to Christ the King’, we will spare your life.” He only answered: “Long live Christ the King! Long live Our Lady of Guadalupe!

    St. Jose. Please pray for us.

  2. We in the Christian West, including the United States, are under assault from a largely Marxist driven, Bolshevik inspired revolution. That revolution long ago stole the hearts and minds of our ruling classes, our educators, entertainers, poets and dreamers. The reasons are too many to get into.

    No, we’re not. The strangeness of our time won’t be understood by consulting Marx, but by consulting Alvin Gouldner, Thomas Sowell, C.S. Lewis, Paul Hollandar, Christopher Lasch, and others. Our problem is not ‘Marxism’ or anything resembling it. Our problem is that our professional-managerial element fancies the rest of the population is under its tutelage and fancies it can and should treat people and institutions as if they were made of playdough. There are elements of that class not fully implicated: the more provincial element of the bar and the business community, the officer corps of the military and the local police, the engineering profession. There’s been a great deal of talk about ‘resistance’ lately. The real resistance is going to have to be action on the part of the rest of society to put these people in their place and take away their levers of influence. And, yes, that’s going to require playing hardball with the judiciary.

  3. ORTHODOX RUSSIA AND THE DEVOUT CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX VLADIMIR PUTIN ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY,,,,,,your enemy is the controlled opposition posing as CONSERVATIVE RADIO AND YOUTUBE TALKERS,,,,THESE USUAL SUSPECTS ARE OFTEN HONEY POTS,,,,the saul alinsky subverso inspired groups in the catholic church, the vatican, the last bastian that has apparently fallen, all of which fly below the radar. the vatican in the worst case is not your enemy but a tragedy of world historic proportions, you are free to be a sermon on the mount christian, and isn’t that what Jesus wanted? your assignment is to study saul alinsky tactics,,,,,,they can be used by anyone.

  4. New drinking game everyone! Everytime Phil mocks instead of makes a coherent argument, take a drink.

    That’s one already. Cheers!

  5. Art,
    I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. I’m not so much interested in who as much as how. Though the tendency of the Left to warm to the more radical expressions of its political thought over the last century would, IMO, make it more susceptible to using the same tactics used by those radical expressions. Just like anyone inspired by things will often emulate them.

    Phil,
    If you look at the modern approach to sexuality and gender and see sanity and consistency, more power to you. 😉

  6. Dave, I apologize for the snark, which I agree is my bad, but honestly, what sane person takes opening lines like the following seriously…

    “We in the Christian West, including the United States, are under assault from a largely Marxist driven, Bolshevik inspired revolution.”

    Apologies, but it’s not 1953 anymore.

    What is Christian about picking a fight with trans people? Nobody is hoisting anything trans on you, you are a victim of only your own imagination. If trans makes you uncomfortable, you can simply ignore the whole thing, which is in fact what most people do.

    The Supreme Court gave gays the right to marry. And exactly nothing bad happened. Life goes on. If we didn’t read the papers we wouldn’t even know it happened.

    If you want carefully considered thoughtful replies, write a carefully considered thoughtful article. You don’t have to agree with me obviously, just try not to be absurd.

  7. “Nothing bad happened” -phil

    Yeah… for those with wisdom, behold the foolishness of Phil. For he does not realize that it is not the straw which breaks the camel’s back. And that once it is broken, not easily will it be repaired. Of course that’s usually how it goes. Once leftists ruin lives theyso often scream “how could we know?” even as they drown in warnings from conservatives from that time.

    Also.
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/18/transgender-person-on-trial-for-sexually-assaulting-10-year-old-girl-in-bathroom/

  8. @ Phil:
    “nothing bad happened”… You could say the same thing about contraception and divorce. What happened was the breakdown of the family, the notion that sex is solely for pleasure and not procreation. So what happened in Europe and Japan is that the native population birth rate of many countries is much below the 2.0 level required to maintain a stable population level, particularly one where there is a sufficiently large working population to support the increasingly large number of elderly. So, Greece, Spain, Italy–into bankruptcy and moral decay. It turns out dismissing morality has some economic consequences.

  9. I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. I

    Continuous use of inapplicable nonsense terminology (a) are a distraction and (b) make the user look like a clown. Marxism is no more our problem now than is psychoanalytic babble. That was the challenge for my parents generation. My uncle is 90 and happily retired. His cohorts won their war. Now it’s time for their successors to win theirs.

  10. What is Christian about picking a fight with trans people?

    I realize personal agency is something you may have a weak grasp of. Just to remind you, the self-appointed advocates of ‘sexual minorities’ have picked a fight with the rest of us.

    The Supreme Court gave gays the right to marry. And exactly nothing bad happened.

    What has happened is something you haven’t the perspicacity to see.

  11. Continuous use of inapplicable nonsense terminology (a) are a distraction and (b) make the user look like a clown. Marxism is no more our problem now than is psychoanalytic babble.

    Our problem is that our professional-managerial element fancies the rest of the population is under its tutelage and fancies it can and should treat people and institutions as if they were made of playdough.

    Yeah… what about Marxism EVER had any kind of elites thinking people and institutions were malleable? C’mon Art, you’re smarter than that, it’s like making an argument that the fruit of a tree has nothing to do with the seeds it grows from.

  12. And now for the worst part. Pope Francis is full on-board with contradiction as a brain washing technique with his 2 + 2 = 5 thinking or one can commit mortal since without repentance and be saved. When the Catholic Church abandons reason we know we are in real trouble.

  13. A lesbian couple lives directly across the street from us. And how has this affected our marriage of 35+ years. Not one single bit.

    I know some of us are desperate to find someone to be superior to, someone to judge and condemn etc, so let’s grow up and find a more worthy target than gays and trans etc. I’m up for the judging and condemning, but refuse to aim that at innocent targets. That’s called Christianity, look it up. Try it, you might like it!

    The tobacco industry has been deliberately engineering highly addictive deadly products that have killed 400,000 Americans each and every year for decades. Oh, and millions more around the world too.

    Watch what happens next. Posters will now trot out a hundred different arguments for letting the tobacco industry off the hook. 400,000 dead per year, and all you want to talk about is sex, sex, sex. Morally pathetic.

  14. Don’t blame this one on the Soviet Union; this is as American as Mormon polytheism and polygamy. There may be similarities, but that’s simply because Soviets were and Americans are humans. In that way, they may be like the similarities found in typical cults. Have you ever noticed how male cult leaders tend to find special divine permissions for themselves to have any women they want? That doesn’t make the Jonestown cult a kind of crytpo-Islam.

  15. “The tobacco industry has been deliberately engineering highly addictive deadly products that have killed 400,000 Americans each and every year for decades. Oh, and millions more around the world too.”
    And the evils of tobacco are relevant to the thread of this discussion, how?

  16. Phil, it’s the similarity of tactics mixed with an inundation of articles, editorials and posts reflecting on ‘Rethinking Marx’, ‘Why Marx Matters’, ‘Communism this time’, ‘Marx and Jesus, a Love Story’, that suggests there’s a trend. Though I would never say this is something new. When I was in college, longer ago than I care to admit, there was a sense of ‘How do we know the Communists are the bad guys?’ in the university. As I said, I’ve never gone full blown Commie conspiracy, but it’s impossible to deny the similarities and the sympathies. And, to be brutally honest, the tactics. I don’t think we will be some USSR reborn. We’re not Tsarist Russia. It will take a different approach to get us to go down the dark path. But it would take more faith than I can muster to believe that there is no connection, no sympathy and no inspiration from that social and political side of the histoical aisle.

    Don’t worry about the snark. I posted at Patheos. I’m used to it. 🙂

  17. Bob asked, “And the evils of tobacco are relevant to the thread of this discussion, how?”

    It’s clear that some of us have a desperate need to point the finger of blame and shame so as to position ourselves above somebody else. Ok, I’ll play, but only if we aim that energy at a worthy target which deserves to be blamed and shamed.

    Point being, it makes not the slightest bit of sense to be worrying about transgender folks while very dangerous devils like tobacco company executives are among us.

    And when Catholics, or anybody else, engages in a habit of not making the slightest bit of sense that comes with a big credibility killing price tag. And so should Catholics, or anybody else, then have something useful to say, nobody will listen.

  18. Dave, ok, upon reflection I’m willing to be more open to your point, assuming I understand it.

    As example, I think the 2008 financial crash did get a lot of people, me included, more seriously questioning the nature of capitalism. I don’t think most of us realize how close that event came to launching the next, and probably last, global war.

    But then, re-reading your piece, it seems to be more about sex than economics. Should I read your use of marxist to mean “extreme liberal”?

  19. Phil, the argument “I did something bad, but you did something worse” is not really logically or ethically convincing. What’s it’s called? Moral equivalency?

  20. The Transgender part is just the example that pushed me over. The idea is so counter reality, and yet the speed with which it was mandated by executive order, embraced by the intelligentsia, and promoted by the media in one happy chorus was hard to miss. Turns out our bodies have little to do with gender! What a revelation! Before people could question it, it was being imposed on us. And women who were concerned? Why, what are they so paranoid about? I mean, they act like they live their lives scared to death that men are out to get them or something! Suggesting strongly that we really don’t give a flip about women’s concerns, unless convenient for the Cause.

    There are other examples to be sure. To me, that’s just the most obvious example of the old ‘how many fingers am I holding up’ tactic. The old ‘but other than that, Communism wasn’t all bad’ attitude has been around for years, long before GW Bush decided to be president. But it’s the growing reliance on tactics very openly and happily Orwellian that fuses the two for me. Hence ‘Marxist driven’ (that old longing glance at the Communist legacy), and ‘Bolshevik inspired’ (you must admit that ‘unlike our sexual desires, our gender has nothing to do with biology’ or else) were my choice of words.

  21. I’m starting to wonder if Phil has been stuck in a time capsule to be this uninformed about how marxism jumped the rails and became about far more than just economics. To just grab one example…

    “Gender is a hierarchical system which maintains the subordination of females as a class to males through force. Gender is a material system of power which uses violence and psychological coercion to exploit female labor, sex, reproduction, emotional support, etc., for the benefit of males. Gender is not natural or voluntary, since a person is not naturally subordinate and no one chooses to be subordinated.”

    Only if you view the world through the warped lenses of a crypto-Marxist ideology is it possible to see male-female differences as a “system of power” characterized by “violence and psychological coercion.” Yet this bizarre worldview is what inspires the feminist T-shirt slogan “Raise Boys and Girls the Same Way,” which presumes that a gender-free androgynous childhood will eliminate inequality (“the subordination of women as a class”) by eliminating differences between men and women.

    Of course leftists never seem able to admit that it’s not the fifties any more.

  22. Yeah… what about Marxism EVER had any kind of elites thinking people and institutions were malleable? C’mon Art, you’re smarter than that, it’s like making an argument that the fruit of a tree has nothing to do with the seeds it grows from.

    I think you’re likely smart enough to not confuse the intersection in the Venn diagram with the initial sets. If I took you seriously, there would be no distinguishing between Stalinist Russia, Fascist Italy, Dr. Francia’s agricultural regime in Paraguay, Israeli kibbutzim, the Oneida Community, and suburban high schools in Massachusetts.

  23. I don’t think most of us realize how close that event came to launching the next, and probably last, global war.

    Most of us ‘don’t realize’ it because this conception of collective behavior has no reality outside your imagination.

  24. And the evils of tobacco are relevant to the thread of this discussion, how?

    There is an element of drug-addled stream-of-consciousness to his posts.

  25. “Phil, the argument “I did something bad, but you did something worse” is not really logically or ethically convincing. What’s it’s called? Moral equivalency?”

    That’s called sloppy thinking and writing you’re doing there. My point was simple and obvious. There are people who richly merit blaming and shaming, because they are spreading death on a massive scale.

    And many Catholics have nothing at all to say in reply to the carnage, distracted as they are by sex, sex, sex.

  26. Dave, so you don’t have to be mystified, here’s why so many so willingly embraced trans folks.

    There has been an utterly pointless mean and vicious campaign of hate and oppression underway for centuries aimed at LBGT people. Millions of completely innocent people have been denied jobs, housing, respect, even their lives. All for nothing. It’s just been hate for the sake of hate, ignorance for the sake of ignorance.

    It’s time for all of this oppression to stop Dave. Not maybe someday when ignorant backward people still inflating their self importance with bigotry and hate are ready, but now. The oppression needs to stop now.

    So when trans people finally find the courage to come out of the closet, I say HOORAY!, and welcome these friends to the new civilized world that is starting to emerge.

    Be wary my new friend. All the same forces that want to continue the oppression of LBGT people could at any time turn their attention to Catholics. It’s happened before, right?

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you Dave. If you don’t want other people sticking their big fat stupid noses in to your utterly innocent sex life so they can condemn and judge it, then don’t be that person yourself.

  27. Nate:
    I, too, have to pass on your challenge. And anyone who takes you up on it won’t need to be embalmed after they die from alcohol poisoning.

  28. I know some of us are desperate to find someone to be superior to, someone to judge and condemn etc, so let’s grow up and find a more worthy target than gays and trans etc.

    I will thank you to not project your issues on to me or anyone else.

    That is called bearing false witness.

    That you can see no difference between urging people to mutilate themselves to try to form their bodies into a different shape, promising them that it will make things better– and then abandoning them to suicide, and actively shaming them when they let it be known it was a mistake– and refraining from violent assault of those who hold views you do not like says nothing about us, but lots about your own failings.

  29. Phil,
    That’s all fine and good. We’re OK with saying people shouldn’t be dragged out of their house and beaten, whether because they are gay, trans, straight who had an affair, woman who gave birth out of wedlock, or whatever.

    But that’s a different thing than stepping up to the microphone and saying ‘You know all that gene and gender stuff? Turns out we were wrong. Heck, physical bodies and genitals barely have anything to do with gender. It’s what you desire your gender to be that matters. Though we should repeat that who you want to have sex with is as locked in as what your ethnicity.’

    Just because we say we shouldn’t drag people out into the streets and stone them to death for doing something, doesn’t mean we redefine reality to make them right.

    And it wasn’t merely the fact that, like clockwork, the scientific powers that be once again concluded that science proves what modernity wanted to believe all along. It was the speed with which it went from ‘Turns out we now know the truth’ to ‘With pen and phone we expect everyone to obey, or else.’ If just someone in some institution would have said ‘Wait a minute, we just changed all this, shouldn’t we allow for some time to adjust to the new idea that gender is passe?’ Then it would have seemed a little less O’Brienish.

    As I’ve said earlier, this doesn’t include the sudden explosion of ‘Look what women live with every day of their lives’ regarding sexual assault and harassment, when during the Trans Bathroom days, women who expressed concern were mocked as being paranoid, as if there was no reason to think women should ever be concerned about such things.

    It all fits into a sort of ministry of truth framework, if you look at it from a forest rather than the tree perspective.

  30. Phil,

    I am sick and tired of your LGBTQ oppression crap. God nuked Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19 because of such sexual filth. Under the Holy Spirit’s inspiration, St. Paul condemned such perversion in Romans 1:18-32 and 1st Corinthians 6:9-10. He specifically said in the original Greek that arsenokoites (male penetrators of men) and malakoi (male receivers of male penetration) shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God, which means they will burn in hell for all eternity.

    Now I for one do NOT want that. I would rather that they and all of us repent to avoid hell and attain heaven. Further, I would want LGBTQ people get the mental help they need to be released from this sickening perversion. But you would rather grease the skids to hell out of your misbegotten sense of sentimentality and condemn them to a life of homosexual addiction. Who really is being unmerciful here?

    And PS, in the interests of equal time, adulterers and fornicators don’t inherit the Kingdom of God either.

  31. There has been an utterly pointless mean and vicious campaign of hate and oppression underway for centuries aimed at LBGT people. Millions of completely innocent people have been denied jobs, housing, respect, even their lives. All for nothing. It’s just been hate for the sake of hate, ignorance for the sake of ignorance.

    You can attempt, in your cack-handed way, to make an argument on behalf of the gaystapo. I don’t think that does anyone any good, but you can attempt it You can also rebuke people for being bad Catholics. Scolds aren’t attractive, but sometimes they’re right on the merits. What you cannot do, unless you’re trying to exemplify F. Scott FitzGerald’s test of a first-rate intelligence, is both at the same time.

  32. There are people who richly merit blaming and shaming, because they are spreading death on a massive scale. And many Catholics have nothing at all to say in reply to the carnage, distracted as they are by sex, sex, sex.”
    Phil, even if what you say is true (and I have my doubts) that is still logically and ethically irrelevant to setting moral standard with respect to sexual behavior. I am not going to let this pass, because it destroys constructive discourse. Many on the left, and I’m sad to say, some conservatives, do this moral equivalency bit; it does not contribute to understanding or dialog leading to understanding.

  33. I think you’re likely smart enough to not confuse the intersection in the Venn diagram with the initial sets. If I took you seriously, there would be no distinguishing between Stalinist Russia, Fascist Italy, Dr. Francia’s agricultural regime in Paraguay, Israeli kibbutzim, the Oneida Community, and suburban high schools in Massachusetts.

    Great, now we’re on the same page. So we’re not in disagreement that there might be differences between these groups, it’s only in whether it matters. Just as if we imagine you and I were fighting on the fields of WW2. While intellectually we can acknowledge there is difference between the Italian, German, and Japanese way of living, does it really matter as a course when they’re coming across the field shooting at us? Indeed broader categories are generally used to help communication precisely because more specifics are often unknown to those not deeply experienced with them. When the sheep are being attacked, it is usually better just to shout about wolves attacking than to bother with trying to distinguish whether they are in fact wolves or wild dogs and what’s the proper latin taxonomy about them. In the general ballpark is sufficient.

    This is one thing the Left at least somewhat gets with their insistence that everybody on the right is a Nazi. Nowadays playing along with the precise definition game allows many on the left to eventually run the “that wasn’t real marxism” line. I say enough. If they operate from the same first principles and frames of reference of marxism then they should be called marxist (adjective added if needed) until the charge is as despised in the popular culture as nazism is and let the intellectuals worry about the finer distinctions in their ivory halls.

  34. When we were facing the Japanese military, it would have been odd to have been chattering about the Hapsburgs and the Ottomans.

    No, they don’t operate from the same first principles that early 20th century Leninists did, thought some of the attractions adherents to that had may apply now.

    Pussyhats and coddled west coast college students make idiots of themselves yapping about Nazis. I’m not really inclined to play the fool by yapping about ‘Marxists’, ‘Communists’, or ‘Cultural Marxists’ to get even. They’re not any of these things. They’re disoriented spoiled brats regurgitating the semi-digested tripe peddled by the diversitocracy and the victimology faculties.

  35. Dave, a tiny tiny tiny tiny number of people are trans. There is exactly no chance of them “infecting” the larger population. There’s no point in having an argument about whether they are “right” in some abstract global affecting society sense. They are entirely innocent human beings just looking for some peace.

    Don’t Catholics have enough truly awful sexual scandal in their own ranks to keep them busy for years? It’s just entirely bizarre to me that some (not all) Catholics are so very worried worried worried about everybody else’s sexual business while priests are raping children behind the alter and the cover up extends to the highest reaches of the Vatican.

    Finally, it is largely this notion that LBGT people are immoral abominations against God etc that is the source of much or most of the oppression they’ve suffered. You aren’t participating in some lofty moral mission etc, you’re hanging on to the ignorance and violence (if only rhetorical) of the past.

    Again, let’s do the blame and shame thing, I’m up for it. But please pick a more deserving target. They’re are plenty to choose from!

  36. Bob, you are right. LBGT folks and the tobacco companies are not morally equivalent. The first is hurting no one, and the latter is engaged in ruthless mass slaughter for profit.

    Also, it’s not your job to set moral standards in regards to sexuality. And it’s not the Catholic Church’s job. What in the world would the clergy know about sex??? Clean up your own house Bob, and then after a generation or two perhaps folks will take Catholic sex sermons seriously again.

    All you’re doing here, on a Catholic site, is preaching to the choir. Nothing is being accomplished by these sex sermons except that members are engaging in a mutual validation society where everyone agrees to support everyone else’s fantasy moral superiority claims.

    Yea, ok, that’s harsh. And so is picking on gay people, for no good reason at all.

  37. Phil wrote, “Dave, a tiny tiny tiny tiny number of people are trans.”

    Then thankfully this mental disease is limited to a small percentage of the population.

    Phil wrote, “Don’t Catholics have enough truly awful sexual scandal….”

    Yes, and those scandals are as abominable as any homosexual behavior, and sadly, most involve sodomy.

    Phil wrote, “Finally, it is largely this notion that LBGT people are immoral abominations against God…”

    LGBTQ people are not any more an abomination than an alcoholic or drug addict is. But the behavior is abominable and sinful.

    “But please pick a more deserving target.”

    I agree. St. Paul has one at the end of his monologue in Romans chapter 1: people like you who approve of such abominable behavior. He is explicit in verse 32: “Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.”

    BTW, for the record, we all deserve to die for our sins, but Christ took that punishment on Himself at the Cross. Now is the time for all of us to repent. Failing that, hell is precisely and exactly what we deserve.

  38. Dave, a tiny tiny tiny tiny number of people are trans. There is exactly no chance of them “infecting” the larger population. There’s no point in having an argument about whether they are “right” in some abstract global affecting society sense. They are entirely innocent human beings just looking for some peace.

    No, they’re not ‘innocent’. They’re quite peculiar and have gotten into their heads the idea that their problems in living are best addressed by quack therapies administered by licensed physicians whose ethical sense is denuded. That really should not be permitted in law and certainly should not be subsidized in any way by the state or by actuarial pools. There’s a proper response to these people which the military, the civil service, and the court system should offer, and that’s ‘hesh up’.

    Don’t Catholics have enough truly awful sexual scandal in their own ranks to keep them busy for years?

    No, not really.

    It’s just entirely bizarre to me that some (not all) Catholics are so very worried worried worried about everybody else’s sexual business while priests are raping children behind the alter and the cover up extends to the highest reaches of the Vatican.

    Priests aren’t raping children and the Holy See has only an ancillary role in addressing disciplinary problems in the clergy. Strange as it may seem to you, people had moral sentiments and moral arguments and moral revelation prior to 2001 and continue to retain them.

    Finally, it is largely this notion that LBGT people are immoral abominations against God etc that is the source of much or most of the oppression they’ve suffered.

    They haven’t suffered oppression.

    You aren’t participating in some lofty moral mission etc, you’re hanging on to the ignorance and violence (if only rhetorical) of the past.

    Again, let’s do the blame and shame thing, I’m up for it. But please pick a more deserving target. They’re are plenty to choose from!

    It would be pleasant if you demonstrated some talent for thought which did not consist of prefabricated talking points and cliches.

  39. “Bob, you are right. LBGT folks and the tobacco companies are not morally equivalent. The first is hurting no one, and the latter is engaged in ruthless mass slaughter for profit. Also, it’s not your job to set moral standards in regards to sexuality. And it’s not the Catholic Church’s job. What in the world would the clergy know about sex??? Clean up your own house Bob, and then after a generation or two perhaps folks will take Catholic sex sermons seriously again.
    Phil, you still don’t understand or refuse to reply to my initial point. It’s not that ignoring tobacco selling and advocating sexual immorality are equivalent in turpitude, it’s whether one is relevant to the other. The second part of your argument is relevant but wrong. As I pointed in another comment one can look at the economic consequences of sexual immorality in Greece, Spain, Europe…contraception leads to a unstable population heavily weighted in older people and thereby economic catastrophe. And the Church has a legitimate voice in setting standards for sexual morality. By the way, bringing up the old and tired canard of priestly violations is not effective. The statistics for such violations give as high or higher rates in other denominations, in academic circles and politics. By the way, because some sin does not mean we can’t all advocate what is right, even those who do sin. So, in sum, your arguments are not convincing to this choir, although they might be if you were preaching to New Republic or Nation posts.

  40. There is another way to look at this, Phil. God is all-holy and will not countenance any unholiness in heaven. Ezekiel chapter 18 is very clear that each one of us is accountable for our own sins, for which we condemn ourselves to hell. It also says that God takes NO pleasure in the death of the wicked. Ezekiel uses examples that today’s liberal like: oppressing the poor and needy, committing robbery, failing to restore a pledge, and taking usury (interest) and unjust gains. Ezekiel also uses other examples that today’s liberals do not like: defiling his neighbor’s wife (adultery), idolatry and lawlessness. But Ezekiel says at the end of the chapter: “‘For why should you die, O House of Israel? For I do NOT will the death of anyone who dies,’ says the Lord.”

    This is very simple: No sodomy. No lesbianism. No adultery. No fornication. No thievery. No murder. No bearing false witness. No coveting. Yes, racism is sinful. Yes, depriving workers of their honest wages is sinful. But even more so is depriving children of a Mom and a Dad by adultery or sodomy or divorce. And people who do those things but fail to repent and do penance go to hell. Ezekiel says God does NOT want that. But that’s the way it is.

  41. The difference between Marxists and Jesus Christ is informed consent through the free will of the sovereign person in spiritual maturity. Jesus Christ is the perfect human being and our leader in growing into sovereign persons to give informed consent, to pursue our destiny as moral human beings and “to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our (constitutional) Posterity. Our Posterity are begotten in perfect moral and legal innocence and have a God-given human right to be safeguarded from all evil. Addiction to sodomy is not a civil right as all addiction violates free will and infringes on the freedom of all persons here and all future generations our Posterity.. Addiction lacks good will for the common good. Perjury is what male brides and transgendered individuals are as walking mistaken (sexual) identity and scandal for our innocent Posterity. Forcing and compelling people to accept what is unnatural is not FREEDOM, not for the compelled nor for the compeller.
    Homosexuality is not a sin. Addiction to sodomy is a sin. Blaming God for a person’s free will act of sodomy is a sure sign that the person is addicted and under the influence of other than TRUTH.
    Demanding compassion from people by law denies people the joy of giving and loving from the heart. How does demanded love work? I do not know. Jesus leads by example and loves man unconditionally Jesus calls all men to love one another. When love is refused, the lover assumes no guilt, for there is no guilt.

  42. “Phil, you still don’t understand or refuse to reply to my initial point. It’s not that ignoring tobacco selling and advocating sexual immorality are equivalent in turpitude, it’s whether one is relevant to the other. ”

    Bob, I do indeed get your point, and reject it. You’re just trying to dodge the challenge being presented, which is, why are all of you focused on sex when there is a mass murder epidemic underway?

    The relevance is easy to see. You claim to be concerned about society, but make no mention of 400,000 people a year dying from deliberate corporate greed. Thus, it’s entirely reasonable to conclude that your stated concern is phony.

    You guys want to position yourself as moral authorities. I’m saying that’s all just a bunch of fantasy superiority nonsense. I’m rejecting all your transparent clever little arguments that are desperately trying to keep bigotry, hate and oppression alive, in the name of God.

  43. “There is another way to look at this, Phil. God is all-holy and will not countenance any unholiness in heaven.”

    Sorry, I’ll be taking no sermons about holiness from bigots. Try somebody else if you must.

  44. “And the Church has a legitimate voice in setting standards for sexual morality. By the way, bringing up the old and tired canard of priestly violations is not effective.”

    Bob, I bear you no ill will, but I’ll no longer be reading your comments. You simply aren’t intelligent enough to merit my time. I wish you luck.

  45. “Bob, I bear you no ill will, but I’ll no longer be reading your comments. You simply aren’t intelligent enough to merit my time. I wish you luck.”

    Phil is just too darn intelligent for Bob Kurland, BS (Chemistry), CalTech, and MA and Phd in Physics, Harvard. Harvard and Carnegie Mellon where Bob used to teach before he retired are obviously just not on the same intellectual level with Phil.

  46. No, they don’t operate from the same first principles that early 20th century Leninists did, thought some of the attractions adherents to that had may apply now.

    You are spectacularly optimistic then, considering that I outright quoted some of those people (and it’s just the tip of the iceberg) outright admitting that they do.

    They’re not any of these things. They’re disoriented spoiled brats regurgitating the semi-digested tripe peddled by the diversitocracy and the victimology faculties.

    Yeah, faculties which, as a friend of mine who teaches in college says: “are all openly, explicitly, fanatically loyal cultural marxists.” So… maybe you should make some stronger case that they aren’t. I mean Don JUST put up a post about one of those products outright displaying “communism will win” in his hat, a che tshirt on his chest and has selfies posing with the communist manifesto. At some point we have to ask is there anybody that’s could possibly a marxist by your measure.

  47. Well, thank you for the kind words Don, but being a retired academic (with the background you mentioned) is no guarantee of smarts, street or other. So, I do my best to show the synapses haven’t got that far apart, even at 87–ask me a question about quantum mechanics, and I’ll answer readily; politics, philosophy and religion, I have to struggle.

  48. First, about that wicked slur against Dr. Kurland: “You simply aren’t intelligent enough to merit my time.” If he isn’t intelligent, then I am brainless slug from the sewer. Shame on the person who wrote that. Shame!

    Now I wish to respond to this comment: “Sorry, I’ll be taking no sermons about holiness from bigots.”

    When I got to my first job at a Westinghouse PWR after my stint aboard a fast attack nuke sub, I rented a house with a homosexual person. I was introduced to him by friends because I didn’t have enough money for rent on my own, nor did he and we both needed a place to live. He had downstairs and I upstairs. We ate dinner together. We shared bills together. We did yard chores together. We even raised chickens together (his hobby; was a lot of fun except when they escaped in a jail break). And he was a play writer and invited me to see his plays. He knew that I as a Catholic disagreed with his homosexual behavior, and he disagreed with my religion. He had darn more politeness and cordiality than the typical liberal, and I still count him as my friend today even though I disagree with his behavior. He never accused me of being a bigot.

    At a different nuclear power plant – this one a GE BWR – I had a supervisor who was homosexual. We got along very well. He never made a big deal of his “gayness” and I didn’t force my religious beliefs on anyone. I had chest pains one time. He brought me to the doctor’s and stayed with me throughout the whole ordeal. Yes, he knew I was Catholic and opposed homosexual behavior. And I was also an employee who needed his help. I always think fondly of him even though I opposed homosexuality. He eventually got “married” to a guy. I didn’t attend the wedding. I am sure he would have understood why. He never accused me of being a bigot.

    I a Caucasian am married to a Filipina and I regularly participate in Filipino community activities. I am trying to arrange for my wife’s daughter (her previous husband is deceased) to immigrate to the US. What an ordeal that is! But when my step daughter and her husband get here, it’ll be worth it. So I am pro-immigration as long as it’s legal. PS, my wife a legal immigrant HATES illegal immigration. Ha! And not one Flipino has ever accused me of being a bigot.

    I work in a small satellite office with one Chinese guy, one Indian guy, one Hispanic guy, one black man, one black woman, and three white guys. There are only two Catholics (I being one), and two southern Baptists and one non-denominational. The Indian and Chinese are more or less agnostic. And yes, I even talk about my faith from time to time. I am always getting asked questions about Latin or Catholic Church history or the Bible or whatever (I have the Latin Vulgate on my desk next to a statute of Mary and beneath a Crucifix, and yes, I read my Bible when I get into work at 6 am). My boss, a Baptist, likes to tease me about the Reformation. The black lady is a Democrat and really dislikes Trump. But we have conversations (she’s really fascinated about my Latin Vulgate Bible) and no one accuses the other of being a bigot. We all get along famously. The only trouble we had was back in November of last year when there was a millennial hipster snowflake airhead feminist in the office who had a nervous breakdown after the election. We all walked on eggshells because of her delicate tender feelings. When she left everything went back to normal. But even she didn’t accuse me of being a bigot.

    The only one here who behaves that way is the one accusing others. Yes, homosexual behavior is sinful. So is drunken behavior. And yes, I am a recovering alcoholic so I know all about that. I know I deserve hell for my sins. I recall well when my AA sponsor and his sponsor, a Franciscan priest who was my priest confessor, had me go with them on a series of outgoing AA meetings to the local State Penitentiary so that I would have a real good look at what sin does to people, how it puts people in hell right now and how without repentance that hell goes on for an eternity. I highly recommend prison AA meetings; nothing like that steel bar gate clanging shut while you’re in a cage without any guards present and with 18 hardcore prisoners for an AA meeting and having your priest confessor whisper in your year, “But for the grace of God…” And no, not one of the inmates ever accused me of being a bigot. I suspect if they thought that way, then I would not have made it out alive.

    I will however tell you truthfully: I despise liberalism. Absolutely totally and completely despise it. It’s worse than sodomy and drunkenness and all the rest. Why? Because it remove personal responsibility and it denigrates people as mere animals. It says to God, “Non serviam.” And it denies “homo factus est in imagine at simulacro Dei. That said, no, I don’t feel very holy. Never have. But I hope I make it to Jesus at the end of my life in spite of all my defects of character and short comings. I really do. And I hope others don’t make the same damn fool mistakes about sex and booze and drugs that I made.

  49. Sorry, I’ll be taking no sermons about holiness from bigots.

    Quit desperately trying to find someone to judge and condemn, and instead try engaging people on their merits.

    Even though that means you have to come to terms with recognizing that you have been encouraging the mutilation of children and the emotionally vulnerable on the that it will make them feel better in society.

  50. Yeah, faculties which, as a friend of mine who teaches in college says: “are all openly, explicitly, fanatically loyal cultural marxists.” So… maybe you should make some stronger case that they aren’t. I mean Don JUST put up a post about one of those products outright displaying “communism will win” in his hat, a che tshirt on his chest and has selfies posing with the communist manifesto. At some point we have to ask is there anybody that’s could possibly a marxist by your measure.

    1. There is no such thing as ‘cultural Marxism’

    2. Spenser Rapone is a member of Democratic Socialists of America, a hobbyists’ organization that has about 6,000 members. His career to date is a testament to the slatternliness of West Point as an institution, to his personal determination to muck about in an organization in order to injure it, and to the irresponsible parents who supervised him. (Without a doubt, he took out a DSA membership to stick it to them, too).

    3. In higher education in 2013-14, about 1.8 million baccalaureate degrees were issued. About 3,700 were issued by victimology programs (of which about 40% are accounted for by ‘women’s studies’. The existence of these programs is a testament to the corruption and stupidity of the faculty and administration. Very few students are fool enough to enroll in these programs themselves. The few who do are mollycoddled by administrators. Your problem isn’t the students, who are easily contained. Your problem is the administration and (in a more attenuated way) the faculty.

    4. This goes on because of the dynamics of status allocation in higher education, which is in turn derived from the sense of self academics maintain contra the larger society. The faculty members are not Marxists. They are nattering status-anxious bourgeois with a hat full of petty resentments and stupid conceits.

    5. Someone who is ‘actually a Marxist’ ‘by my measure’ adheres to Marxist historiography, sociology, and programs. They’re not very numerous.

  51. Bob, I bear you no ill will, but I’ll no longer be reading your comments. You simply aren’t intelligent enough to merit my time. I wish you luck.

    Phil, your mom wants you to play outside today.

  52. Phil, first I must say that I reject the notion that anyone in the LGBT community is automatically devoid of all sin. Second, the issue wasn’t Trans people themselves. Regarding the women, most I heard who complained said they didn’t care about Trans individuals as much as they feared the sudden approach to the issue would open the door for men who weren’t Trans, and yet who exploited the new approach in order to get at the women. It wasn’t the Trans, it was men in general. And they were met with ‘Gee, what are you so paranoid about? You act like you live your lives scared to death of being assaulted or something.’ Compare that to now, when everyone and anyone is running out saying that we must lament the fact that women live every day of their lives scared to death of being assaulted or something.

    The other part of the problem is the actual truth claim of it. The idea that our bodies are, for want of a better word, irrelevant where our ‘true’ gender is concerned, but our sexual orientation, our desires so to speak, are as locked in as our ethnicity, is simply too much to take. Squares are round and always have been. Our desires are physical, our physical bodies are based on our desires. Nope. Not buying it. And that we moved straight from ‘turns out squares are round’ to ‘with pen and phone we will mandate conformity to round squares, and make sure you ostracize all who fail to embrace round squares (and that includes these women fussing about men getting into bathrooms and intimidating them at all – at least until it’s convenient to care about sexual assault again)’, just brought back fond memories of my friend’s accounts of growing up in the former Soviet Union. As well as other little scraps I’ve read about from that particular time in history.

    It was that Orwellian tendency of no morals, just the cause, mixed with ‘how many fingers?’, combined with the inundation of articles, posts, comments and talks about ‘rethinking Marx’ and ‘but other than that, Communism had its good points’ in recent months that brought me to put the bunch together. I’m not trying to argue for a straight down analysis of everything in some form of according to Hoyle Communism, Marxism, or anything else. I doubt we will look like any other country when we lose our liberties and freedoms. We aren’t born of Tsarist legacies or Prussian backgrounds. We were unique as a nation, and I’m sure when we fall, our fall will be just as unique. I’m merely noting that, as trends go, it’s hard to ignore at least some similarities.

  53. I have banned Phil. Arguments with him were taking on a circular quality and that is death for any blog that allows the comboxes to be dominated by such futile back and forth. Fare thee well Phil.

  54. A couple of points in no particular order. Putin does not manifest as a devout Christian. He is a thug and an accomplice to murder who uses the Orthodox Church as a vehicle to power.
    Transgender is as valid as transmutation of elements in the middle ages. Both are snake oil and frauds and both spring from mental aberration.
    The “Marxism” most used to describe today’s control freaks bear little resemblance to the real things. If genuine Marxists ever seized control in this country, all these snowflakes, psychotics and self absorbed academics would be this first ones sent to the wall. There is no room for nonconformity in Marxism,
    Finally; Those who delight in celebrating pride day, their same gender partners and the gushy approval of their gay friends activities are essentially exhibitionists, wanna bees and hangers on whose own empty lives give them plenty of time for any matter of nonsense.
    I understand the foregoing is somewhat simplified but is has been my observation over the decades of this “revolution” that most of whom I have described here fit rather well into one or more of these categories.

  55. Human beings do not have a gender.

    Gender is a characteristic of THINGS. Look at your language studies class – they use gender for words.

    Human beings have a sex.

    This is the root of the gender ideology – we are not human, we are just objects to be used. This is the root belief of the sexual revolution and the gender ideology.

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