Tuesday, March 19, AD 2024 6:12am

Neo-Neo Con Encapsulates Why I Am Not Supporting Trump

 

Here’s a comment I found at RedState:

Ted Cruz would have never had to explain why he didn’t explicitly endorse Trump in that speech the next day had the RNC/Trump campaign not orchestrated the booing and outrage from the convention crowd.

Imagine if instead they rallied the crowd to cheer Cruz, and Trump then walked out and shook Cruz’s hand, padded him on the back, embraced him, and thanked him for his kind and inspiring words. Imagine if then Trump addressing the audience said “Ted nailed it. If we stand together on those principles, then Hillary doesn’t have a chance. We will win and win big.”

Humility and kindness is all Trump needed to show, and everyone would have walked away thinking that the party was united and possibly Cruz just endorsed Trump in the same way Reagan endorsed Ford (without actually saying it).

Imagine if pigs could fly. Imagine all the people, living life in peace

 

Go here to read the comments.  Riding a wave of voter resentment I think Trump is going to smash Hillary.  After his victory he will be hailed, at least for a while, as a political genius.  No he isn’t .  Trump is not clever at all.  He is lucky.  In the short term lucky is good in a leader.  However luck deserts all of us sooner or later, and then Trump will have only bellicosity, bluster and the arts of a con man to fall back on.  Then we will all be in trouble.

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.Anzlyne
.Anzlyne
Wednesday, July 27, AD 2016 9:07pm

I was thinking of maybe voting for Trump until I saw the Cruz/Trump episode at the convention and how staged Trumps response was, that the Trump people knew what Cruz was going to say and when he got to that part of his speech, Trump came out and milked it.
Disgusting.

Oakes Spalding
Wednesday, July 27, AD 2016 11:17pm

That’s an interesting angle, And I respect it. But I disagree. Why was it up to Trump to go the extra mile? Traditionally, if you lose, you suck it up and support the winner. If Cruz thought Trump was so beyond the pale to support, he could have outlined exactly why, instead of merely throwing a few hints and childishly (in my view) refusing to say just a few supportive words. Or alternatively he could have left the party. Remember, the Republican voters supported Trump by a greater majority than many other historical nominees, so if you have a serious beef with Trump, you have a serious beef with them. Why not just say that, instead of being coy and pretending it’s all about one man. I’m not saying this as a Trump supporter (I know, I know) but as a quasi-Republican Catholic conservative. There’s an ethics to losing. Okay, have at me. 🙂

Don the Kiwi
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 2:06am

Is there any truth to the suggestion that Bernie may run as an independent?
Anathema to the Clinton camp.

Michael Dowd
Michael Dowd
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 2:39am

I agree with Oakes. Trump is the good guy, demonstrating belief in freedom of speech, by letting Cruz speak in the first place knowing that what he said wouldn’t be helpful. Anything other than a vote for Trump is a death wish, assured destruction. If Hillary gets elected how many non-Trump voting Republicans will proudly tell their friends that at least they didn’t vote for Trump?

Dante alighieri
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 4:45am

He “allowed” the man who received the second most number of votes and delegates to address the convention of a party of which he is one of the most important thought leaders. Funny that.

In a way I do hope Trump wins, because his dead-end supporters will likely blame his loss on everyone but Trump. If he wins and is a disaster – and he will be – then some folks, who are not as ardent in their support, might come around, especially if/when he goes back on things like the wall. In fact if Trump wins, and I’m with Don in thinking he likely will, I predict that at this time next year an amnesty bill of some kind will be making its way through Congress, an amnesty bill Trump will be behind.

Michael Paterson-Seymour
Michael Paterson-Seymour
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 4:48am

It strikes an outsider as very odd that Americans can have absolutely no idea what Mr Trump would be like as President.

Contrast that with our new Prime Minister, Mrs May. Her supporters and opponents can at least point to a track record, in which, as a minister, she has steered her department’s business through the House of Commons. For six years, she has introduced its measures and defended its conduct at the dispatch box, replying to sharp and cleaver critics, often enough to a mixed reception (“Cheers and cries of ‘Hear, hear!’ from the Government benches; Opposition groans and cries of ‘Shame!’ and ‘Resign!’”)

It is something to go on

T. Shaw
T. Shaw
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 5:30am

PZ: Political geniuses (gave us McCain and Romney) like Ted and you don’t support or worse 24/7 trash Trump but that will have had no impact on electing Crooked Hillary. Thanks for the intel.
.
I have a good “idea” of what Mrs. President Bill Clinton will be like – corrupt, incompetent – as president. Also, I knew what Obama would be like in 2008.
.
I was all-in for Cruz. Now, he can go to Hell.
.
That speech demonstrated that he’s a “smart” dude and why nobody likes him. It showed why he couldn’t persuade more GOP primary voters to vote for him than for Trump.
.
Mrs. President Bill Clinton thanks you and Cruz.

Dante alighieri
Reply to  T. Shaw
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 6:18am

T Shaw,

Let me address your substantive points, one at a time:

. . . .

Now then, I will thank you in advance for proving one of my points:

In a way I do hope Trump wins, because his dead-end supporters will likely blame his loss on everyone but Trump.

Dante alighieri
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 6:23am

By the way, some people’s reaction to a man saying “vote your conscience” really tells you a lot about the state of their conscience.

CAM
CAM
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 9:14am

I hope Cruz stays in the Senate where he’s needed, but that’s up to the voters in Texas.
Trump is an imperfect candidate to be sure, not my first choice. I was not impressed with his post nomination speech. (In fact his mannerisms and bombastic delivery reminded me of Il Duce from old newsreels.) But after yesterday’s press conference I have hope. He was in control not the media. No drama. Trump has surrounded himself with politically experienced, conservative, pro-life advisers. I am praying (literally) for Trump that he listens to them.
After elected can Trump deliver? Much also depends on the House and Senate.

Pinky
Pinky
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 9:16am

Oakes – “Remember, the Republican voters supported Trump by a greater majority than many other historical nominees”

I’m pretty sure that’s incorrect. A lot depends on how you measure the support (percentage, states won, delegate count), but I don’t think any post-1972 nominee has had less support by any measure, and the primary system before 1972 was very different.

Dante alighieri
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 9:21am

I’m pretty sure that’s incorrect. A lot depends on how you measure the support (percentage, states won, delegate count), but I don’t think any post-1972 nominee has had less support by any measure, and the primary system before 1972 was very different.

Not to mention many of those primary voters were not even Republicans. I have seen estimates that more than half of his primary support came from non-Republicans, but that strikes me as a bit high. Clearly, though, the open primary system helped enable his nomination.

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 10:42am

PZ: Political geniuses (gave us McCain and Romney) like Ted and you don’t support or worse 24/7 trash Trump but that will have had no impact on electing Crooked Hillary.
Who?
Seriously, the guys that are actually the “establishment” are scared to death of Cruz– to the point of wanting TRUMP over him, and not even being shy about it.
The only support I’ve seen for the idea that the “establishment” is so “against” Trump is the same as the one for “trash talking” him– telling the truth. Not just what he said most recently, not just a careful spin on his history, but the whole deal.
At one point I was accused of getting all my news from MSNBC for… accusing Trump of something he’d bragged about, cheating contractors. Like all thieves, he believes himself justified, but that’s not an excuse for claiming the facts are false.
****
Trump might be the least bad alternative. That’s not because he’s good, or even alright– it’s because Clinton is so bad.

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 10:49am

Pinky and Paul:
simple effort will show that from 2000 to 2008 there was a change in Primary votes of 10-12 million. Ten million more Republicans and 12 million less Democrats. But this is child’s play. Getting deeper, examining States with close polling prior to the registration requirements, States with a clear winner in polls prior to registration change requirements, and you can set patterns.

Using 2000 and 2008 as baselines, the conclusion was staggering. Trump only got about 3.3 million Republican Votes. The rest are Democrats, approximately 12 million of them.
http://www.redstate.com/diary/creinstein/2016/06/25/12-million-democrats-voted-republican-primaries/

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 10:52am

Without requiring any judgement, here’s the Washington Post pointing out that Trump set a record for the most primary votes against him.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/08/donald-trump-got-the-most-votes-in-gop-primary-history-a-historic-number-of-people-voted-against-him-too/
****
He also got the lowest percentage of the total primary votes in just short of half a century.

Oakes Spalding
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 10:53am

Pinky and Paul: Obviously the math is complicated and obviously “majority” can mean different things in this context. But without Googling, I would estimate that in the competitive races going back to 1968, Trump clinched it earlier than the other winning candidates in roughly half of them. I might be wrong.

Dante alighieri
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 11:29am

I would estimate that in the competitive races going back to 1968, Trump clinched it earlier than the other winning candidates in roughly half of them. I might be wrong.

If you’re talking about GOP presidentiial primaries, you would be way, way, way off. Pretty much every Republican nomination had been more or less sealed by Super Tuesday (which, admittedly, is not a fixed point) other than Ford-Reagan, and perhaps Romney-Santorum. Reagan fumbled in Iowa, lost a couple of other states, but otherwise routed Bush, Bush also lost Iowa in 1988, but swept Super Tuesday and that was that. Dole lost New Hampshire, but otherwise surprisingly (when I looked back) won the nomination fairly easily, losing only a handful of states. Other than getting his clock cleaned by McCain in New Hampshire, GWB had a realtively smooth ride, and McCain was done in early March. Then McCain won heftily on Super Tuesday in 2008, and the second half of the primary season was essentially a coronation. Santorum hung tough against Romney, but I seem to recall that it all over but the shouting after Ohio. I mean this year we were pretty close to California actually having to matter.

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 11:36am

He did not get the greatest number of anything but delegates, and even then it took gaming– the infamous and already mentioned open primary issues, as well as record setting new party declarations.
****
2016
May 26th
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/breaking_donald_trump_now_has_the_number_of_delegates_to_be_the_republican_nominee_for_president
2012
May 29th.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/mitt-romney-clinches-gop-nomination-president-texas-win-article-1.1086417
2008
March 4th
http://www.denverpost.com/2008/03/04/mccain-clinches-gop-nomination/
2004
Unopposed; immediate.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/misc/gop.html
****
Trump was only saved from a contested convention by the GOP leadership saving him; the last time we had a contested convention was 1976.

Oakes Spalding
Oakes Spalding
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 11:57am

I think you guys are right. And I’ve been doing a bit of googling myself. After I finish working out I’m going to make myself a crow for lunch.

Michael Dowd
Michael Dowd
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 12:32pm

Remnant has a good presentation on why serious Catholics should vote for Trump based on the principle of double effect. http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/remnant-television/item/2662-trumping-hillary-the-catholic-position

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 12:54pm

*big thumbs up* Cool beans.

T. Shaw
T. Shaw
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 1:01pm

When Hillary wins and finishes off America, neo-neo cons and you guys will be among those whom I credit. .
.
It don’t mean nothing. It was all over anyhow.

The Christian Teacher
The Christian Teacher
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 1:48pm

“He allowed Cruz to speak and egged on his delegates to boo him. Shear stupidity.”

Is their any proof of that on Trump’s part–besides hearsay and gossip.

Ginny
Ginny
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 1:51pm

I think T. Shaw is correct. As Pope Benedict said in “Jesus of Nazareth”, God has disappeared and man is the only actor left on the stage. I might add that Pope Benedict felt great urgency to get this book published as he didn’t know how much time or strength he would be given. As he said, the Kingdom has been reduced to politics — peace, justice, and the preservation of creation.

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 1:56pm

When Hillary wins and finishes off America, neo-neo cons and you guys will be among those whom I credit.
Why not?
Trump’s been blaming every failure on anyone but himself, anyways. It’s never an issue with the plan, it’s always a problem in everyone else not throwing in hard enough.
It won’t possibly be that Trump’s democrats didn’t turn out in the general, or that Trump is even more of a Democrat than the Republicans usually manage– nope, it’ll be alllll the fault of those who point out facts that folks don’t want to hear.

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 2:06pm

Quote:
PAUL MANAFORT just grinned and chuckled when asked by @MarkHalperin if Trump aides encouraged boos of Cruz from floor
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7663/heres-everything-you-need-know-about-cruzs-vote-ben-shapiro
***
Not that anything short of Trump himself airing a live address where he says “I organized the reaction to Cruz’s speech” would be acceptable as evidence, and then it would suddenly become a good thing anyways.

Don the Kiwi
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 2:29pm

Michael Paterson-Seymour on Thursday, July 28, A.D. 2016 at 4:48am
It strikes an outsider as very odd that Americans can have absolutely no idea what Mr Trump would be like as President.

I’m with MPS. Maybe this is a reason why parliamentary democracy is superior to a constitutional republic (Ducks for cover 😉 )
Trump has been in the pyblic eye for years, and no doubt has garnered many enemies as well as friends. Otherwise he would certainly not have gained the nomination, and when guys like Newt Gingrich support him – maybe, as mentioned above – the best worst choice- I fail to see how people can be so against Trump.
Sure he is certainly no angel and has indulged in some dirty business tricks in his career – show me an extremely wealthy business man who hasn’t – they are very few and far between, those who make their wealth over the corpses of defeated competitors.
I agree that Trump is the better choice of two terrible options, but is surely better than La Clinton who will continue to destroy the USA as Obama has commenced to do. Can Trump back down on all his bombastic statements? Will he get good men and women around him ? Will he nominate conservative pro-life SCOTUS judges?
These may be questions that begs an answer – but you all know very well that Hillary will do everything totally against conservatives and against the teachings of the Church and march at the van of the continuing decline of America. You know this. Do you really think that Trump will do the same?

c matt
c matt
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 3:15pm

bellicosity, bluster and the arts of a con man to fall back on.

Should serve him well in DC.

Brian
Brian
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 3:26pm

T.Shaw states, “I was all in for Cruz. Now he can go to hell”. This is the perfect crystallized essence of Trumpism.

Politics is about getting various points of view on the same page, compromising and finding common ground. That is precisely the point TAC excerpted above. That’s ALL Trump had to do. “Great speech, from a worthy opponent! I heartily endorse his views. I hope to earn his support and that of his followers. By all means vote your conscience as if your future depended on it!”

But, no. Cruz gets tossed out on his ass and his wife leaves under police escort in fear for her safety.

And all Cruz supporters, who make up quite a large number, are rudely dismissed by comments like T.Shaw’s. By implication, as a strong Cruz supporter, I suppose I am supposed to follow Cruz to the hot place?

Republicans/Conservatives can never win on a platform of anger and division and hate. Even if Trump wins, his program is doomed. He cannot lead. He can only coerce.

Solid ideas do not need anger and emotion to win the day.

c matt
c matt
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 3:47pm

I guess what confuses me most about all this is that it was imperative that one vote against Obama back in 2012 despite any misgivings one had about Romney (see, e.g., post of November 4, A.D. 2012), but now it seems it is not imperative to vote against Hildebeast despite any misgivings one may have about Trump.

Brian
Brian
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 3:54pm

Trump is not Mitt

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 4:15pm

Good summary, Brian.
****
We all agree Hillary is horrible, but we’re supposed to ignore the evidence that Trump is likewise as horrible because he said so, or his supporters did, and we’re horrible for asking.
Contrast with when Mitt was in, if a claim was factual it was generally admitted, with the fact-based counter where Obama is worse.
*********
Hillary: going to use power to punish enemies, reward friends, gain power and get rich.
Trump: from the evidence, ditto and add in that he’s vendictive.
Hillary: hates the military. No, really, heard it from those who’ve met her as military personnel. Would damage it.
Trump: uses the military as a nice prop, would likely keep doing so, to our damage; likely to abuse his powers in it.
Hillary: hates gun rights and hates human right to life; would appoint crazy liberal judges.
Trump: wild card. He says he’ll nominate as various decent places say; from past evidence, he’ll only do that if they’re kissing his trouser seat constantly, otherwise he’ll throw a tantrum and do a punishment nomination.
….etc….
Y’all Trump supporters REALLY need to take a card from Donald, and explain Why Trump Isn’t That Bad.
You’re not going to get anywhere with “Vote Trump Or You’re Bad.” I’ve been called bad my whole life. I’ve been blamed for not throwing in hard enough when I did throw in; I’ve been blamed for exactly what I said would happen actually happening in the way I said it would.
I am not going to vote for a guy when the only reason I can find that he’s not as bad as the alternative is HE SAYS SO, when his past (and sometimes after) actions and words say the opposite.

Don the Kiwi
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 5:02pm

Just as well there has been a bumper crop in the fields this summer, ‘cos there is going to be literally tons of popcorn consumed between now and November, not just in the USA, but in most of the western societies.
It’s coming into our summer too, si I guess the ‘frig’ will need to be well syocked with the amber fluid as well – we can’t risk dehydration now, can we. 🙂

Brian
Brian
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 7:29pm

Don the Kiwi,

Love it down under! Australia’s not bad either. Favorite places to be. Too bad your immigration policy is so strict. I would have moved there years ago.

Brian
Brian
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 7:34pm

Foxfire,

At this point I’m really only concerned about keeping my conscience clean. It’s that bad. I’ve voted in every election since 1980. Not once has it crossed my mind until now that more than just politics is involved.

Hillary is evil and odious. Trump terrifies me.

I’m starting to hear more about a fellow named Gary Johnson. Hmm!

Brian
Brian
Thursday, July 28, AD 2016 8:42pm

P.S, Just saw a Gary Johnson interview. Never mind.

Three liberals. Great.

female Trump voter
female Trump voter
Friday, July 29, AD 2016 1:20am

My my my.

What would all you special snowflakes have done back in the day when there were actually contested conventions.

Brian
Brian
Friday, July 29, AD 2016 7:52am

F.T.V: Are you saying this was not a contested convention? Not actually?

Or is that just the method to get “special snowflakes” out there; those struggling with conscience issues, I presume.

Well, one thing’s for sure. Trump voters have got that issue resolved. Doesn’t help me, but good for you!

Tito Edwards
Admin
Sunday, July 31, AD 2016 7:11pm

The Constitution Party looks better and better every day.

Brian
Brian
Sunday, July 31, AD 2016 7:25pm

Tito Edwards, I just found the Constitution Party yesterday and its nominee, Darrell Castle. I line up with them 100% on the issues.

http://www.constitutionparty.com

Tito Edwards
Admin
Sunday, July 31, AD 2016 7:36pm

Brian,

I saw that as well.

The Constitution Party must be taken serious by many of us that are disgusted with Trump and will not ever vote for Hillary Clinton.

T. Shaw
T. Shaw
Monday, August 1, AD 2016 5:47am

Here it comes!
.
If you don’t believe President Mrs. Bill Clinton is the worst that can happen – the end of America as we know it – you are part of the problem.
.

Ninety-nine percent of America is at the mal – most don’t even know a soldier, sailor or marine. One percent (my son and wife included) is at war.
..
I don’t hear any Democrat say anything negative about corrupt, incompetent Crooked Hillary.
.
Rucking Fyan just jumped on the bogus “gold star mother” BS express train (a variation of their “chicken hawk” BS).
.
President Reagan (“Never say anything bad . . . ) was the last real Republican.
.
After making contrary campaign promises, cowards or traitors Fyan and Boehner gave Obama everything he ever wanted. Fyan. “Thou shalt not shut down the government.”
.
The GOP establishment actually wants to elect Hillary.
.
You’re damned right I will blame Hillary-loving GOP rats, and POG’s like Bryan and Tito who will ensure Hillary wins. It’s simple arithmetic: Hillary will get more (dead people and illegals) votes than Trump. Don’t waste your time with BS’ing about how that will have been my fault.

Brian
Brian
Monday, August 1, AD 2016 11:10am

T. Shaw. Utterly unconvincing. Bully language, little different than Trump’s.

That will be a real joy for the next four years.

Why would any Catholic be persuaded that vaguely (not so vague actually) threatening appeal?

Brian
Brian
Monday, August 1, AD 2016 11:38am

T.Shaw, one other thing I’ve noticed about Trump is how he takes Catholics who (presumably) agree on the One Great Thing, our Fath in Jesus Christ, and turn them into angry shouting enemies for the sake of a political outcome. Division is what he brings. I have witnessed this personally, where I state my opinions here and elsewhere, and am treated as an enemy of the Faith ….. for the sake of Donald Trump’s election!

Is he really worth it? Does Christ call us to win elections, or convert souls? I would love to vote in the affirmative for a good candidate. But in the end, the American electorate will do what it will do. But I still have to answer to God before His Holy Throne “What did you do for My Kingdom in the time allotted to you?”

I am unconvinced that God wants Trump as President. I am fully convinced that God wants me to be faithful in the little things, such as leading the souls in my family to heaven and spreading the Gospel in my small circle of friends and acquaintances. Quietly, faithfully living the Gospel as a Christian first.

I am keeping an open mind. If he can convince me in the debates and through the election media process that he is a credible, serious candidate on the issues, I will vote for him. It doesn’t look God so far.

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