The Catholic Response to the Death of a Murderer

An already busy weekend concluded with the surprise announcement by President Obama that Osama Bin Laden had been killed on Sunday morning, May 1 by a team of American forces in a compound in Pakistan.

There’s a lot to be digested, and a lot of questions for what this means for an already uncertain future in the Middle East. However, as the crowds pour into Lafayette Square with jubilation, it is important to remember how this day began. It began as Divine Mercy Sunday, the Second Sunday of Easter, which this year saw the beatification of John Paul II, an event which marked the holiness of the man. One cannot think about the holiness of John Paul II without recalling his powerful forgiveness of his would-be assassin. For Catholics, this day began as a testament to the powerful force of God’s love and mercy.

So it should it end the same way. Bin laden did much evil. He killed scores of innocents, contributed to the starts of several wars, and used religion to create a culture of hatred. For Americans, we watched as our brothers and sisters were killed, wounded, or separated from their families. If anyone deserved to be riddled with American bullets, it was he.

But “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” has no “but” clauses. The culture of life that John Paul II spoke from womb to tomb; the dignity and beauty of God-given human life is not diminished by one’s sins. God’s mercy and love has no exceptions; as Christians our mercy and love are to have no exceptions.

Simply put, God loved Osama Bin Laden and extended His mercy to him. It is our duty as Christians, as witnesses to the love of God to extend our forgiveness to Bin Laden and pray that he accepted that mercy and that we will be with us in paradise. The celebration around his death ought to make all Christians uneasy; even more so the many declarations that they hope Osama is burning in hell.

This is a difficult teaching to be sure, especially for those who lost a loved one due to Bin Laden. But the Church has never claimed that its teachings were easy. Instead, it has offered the grace and sacraments to live it out, as well as pointed to the examples of extraordinary human beings who lived it out. Today, the Church named a man blessed who knew deeply about the costs of love and forgiveness. So Blessed John Paul II, pray for us. Pray that our country can use this moment to emerge more unified. Pray for the world that we may escape an era of fear and hatred and violence. Pray for us that in this time, we can follow your example and use this moment to witness to the love & mercy poured out by our Savior, Jesus Christ.

91 Responses to The Catholic Response to the Death of a Murderer

  • Michael
    I don’t see things that way. Bin Laden was killed with one shot while shooting at what he knew was either Pakistan military or ours. Ergo he was shooting at government forces. His only chance of making Purgatory is if God knew him to have a high functional insanity whereby he could function daily but was controlled by subconscious forces to do material evil without formal guilt. That is why we can’t judge him. But he was not repentant if he was firing at estblished forces. Judas according to Christ, Augustine, and Chrysostom but not our last two Popes…..is in hell right now. We don’t need an encyclical because we have inerrant scripture.
    Don’t worry. Those in hell had to reject much love from God to even get there.
    The New Testament says: ” If the just man will scarcely be saved, where will the impious and the sinner appear?”. That’s the Holy Spirit. You are correct though that outside Judas and other Bible figures, we do not know who is in hell because Trent said one could only know by revelation.

  • I’m not sure why you think Osama was killed by a single shot, but your theory assumes he committed mortal sin and was killed instantly. I hope that when he was shot there was enough time, perhaps even a split second, that the outpouring of infinite love & grace of our God touched his heart and that, like the thief on the cross, Osama stole eternity.

    If he never repented, then I shudder to think of his fate.

  • While it is certainly sinful to wish ill for someone, it is a good thing to rejoice at justice. Sort of like being happy about the victory at Lepanto, or thankful that the Turks were turned back at Vienna, and the Jihad stopped at Tours. That’s not a bad thing. It should be tempered, obviously, by a hope that their souls were somehow saved.

  • This is a wonderful response – beautiful in its wording and challenging in its content. I must admit, as an American Catholic, I am struggling with my own personal reaction. On one hand, I did not lose any loved ones on September 11th, so I have a great deal of difficulty even feeling like I have a right to ask for Osama’s forgiveness. To do so, on some level, feels like it would be an insult to all those who did lose loved ones on that day or in any of his orchestrated attacks. But, on the other hand, I do believe that God extends His mercy to all, and as Jesus told St. Faustina, “Let the greatest sinners place their trust in My mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy (Diary of St. Faustina, 1146).”

    All I know is this – the moment Osama Bin Laden died, my family was united, praying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy on the Feast of Divine Mercy for dying sinners, especially those most in need of our Lord’s mercy. The thought is heart shattering for me. I do not believe in coincidence when it comes to how God deals out mercy. Let us pray that people around the world, especially those most wronged by Osama Bin Laden, will be given the grace to find closure and peace in the human justice dealt today and, perhaps in God’s time, the grace to forgive him according to the Divine Mercy our Lord extended to Osama Bin Laden on the cross.

    Blessed Pope John Paul II, pray for us!

  • Single shot to the head after he was given the chance to surrender.

  • I never rejoice with the dead of anybody, and less when the person is killed, even when the person is a killer, himself. The Pasion of Our Lord, the Redemption, was for him too. God have mercy on his soul.

  • Sic transit gloria mundi.

    Osama had his day of infamy. As the Bard tells us, the evil that men do lives after them, and so it is with bin Laden. I cannot imagine there was much good to be interred with his bones.

    This man has been the rallying cry for much atrocity, pain and death in this world – I cannot imaging many mourning his passing, except perhaps those distorted and overtaken with his teaching.

    It is a good thing he is dead. It is not a good thing that there is a very strong case that he is eternally damned – God made all of us for Him and it is a cause for great sorrow when one separates himself from God by his own doing.

    Now we should prepare ouselves for the onslaught of hundreds who would step up to take his place.

  • Well said Don. I am saving some prayer time for those today and in the coming weeks who will inevitably be slain by adherents of the religion of peace in revenge for the fact that bin Laden has received long delayed justice.

  • “I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.” – Mark Twain

  • And, the Yanks and Mets won!

    Good thing: He will not be responsible for the murder of one more innocent civilian. Two: possibly this will reduce the massacre artists’ effectiveness. Three: it may demoralize mass murderers.

    Genesis: “Who spills man’s blood, by man shall his blood be spilled. For man was made in the Image of God.”

    “He who has no sword, sell his mantle and buy a sword.” Jesus

    Why would anyone ever attempt to live a good life if everyone will be saved no matter what evil they did?

  • I see nothing wrong with celebrating a military victory in a just war, which is what this is. Osama had the chance to live by surrendering. He chose not to. His soul is in God’s hands, and I trust that He will do with it what is both just and merciful. This will not dampen my celebrating. Our soldiers have accomplished a great feat, and an enemy has been vanquished.

  • This triumph of justice deserves to be celebrated.

  • This is written with the heart of the Church, our Savior Jesus Christ.

    You are a good man, Michael Denton.

  • I don’t normally take joy in anyone’s death, but Bin Laden got what he deserved. Although I do not believe in an afterlife, if there is a hell, then Osama will get a presidential suite along with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Mussolini and Tojo.

  • In Lawrence of Arabia, Sherif Ali (Omar Sharif) sees the glow of heavy shelling across the desert. He says to Lawrence (Peter O’Toole), “God help the men that lie under that.” Lawrence says, “They are Turks” (i.e. the enemy). Ali continues to watch, and listen to the distant pounding of the guns, and says again, “God help them.”

    We can be happy for military victories but there is a difference between being thankful (and I’d say we should lean towards the thankful, rather than the joyful) for defeating a ruthless enemy, and saying things like “I hope you have fun in hell,” as a few had on their facebook pages. I am sad that anyone has to die in war, and I pray that it may not be so. From a military and intelligence standpoint, I’m impressed with this achievement–but I am never happy that someone was killed and I only hope capturing him was impossible.

    Thanks Michael for this piece.

  • Amen, Michael.

  • Why would anyone ever attempt to live a good life if everyone will be saved no matter what evil they did?

    I don’t see anyone saying OBL is saved despite his evil. Mr. Denton is simply pointing out that one can (should?) hope OBL availed himself of God’s grace which is made available to all. Whether he took advantage of that or not is between him and God.

    I don’t know if “celebrate” is the right attitude, but I think we can be thankful to some extent justice (at least to the extent it can be delivered by fallible human means) has been served.

  • You have got to be kidding me. An incredibly evil man was killed during a Just War. God certainly loved him, but he didn’t love God, which is why he ended up the way he did.

    This “mixed-emotions” response from the members of a Church that every October 7th celebrates a battle in which thousands of our enemies were killed is preposterous.

    St. Pius V, pray for us!

  • It’s oddly hard for me to have any strong feelings one way or the other on this one.

    I’m not really putting much energy in working up feelings of tenderness for Bin Ladin, since I think doing so would be more an exercise in show than anything else. (It meant something for John Paul II to forgive his assassin, it would be self indulgent for me to go around telling people that I forgave John Paul II’s assassin.) And though Bin Ladin can at a human level be a subject for human pity, so are lots of other people rather more worthy of consideration.

    That said, this is, sadly, probably not the military victory that Hitler’s suicide in the bunker was. Being the sort of movement that it is, I’m not sure how much of a handicap losing Bin Ladin is to Al Qaeda. I hope I’m wrong about that, but I fear it’s more a symbolic victory than a productive one.

    No cheers or tears for me.

  • Excellent column. I concur with Michael’s comments. In no way can we as believers wish damnation upon anyone no matter how evil their actions.

  • A brilliant, brave and theologically on target article…Thank you!! At times like this it is not easy to follow the guidelines our Catholic faith provides us. But it is in times like this that we can exercise our true faith and be an example to a terribly violent world.

  • “That said, this is, sadly, probably not the military victory that Hitler’s suicide in the bunker was. Being the sort of movement that it is, I’m not sure how much of a handicap losing Bin Ladin is to Al Qaeda. I hope I’m wrong about that, but I fear it’s more a symbolic victory than a productive one.”

    I suspect that is true. Al Qaeda has become decentralized and can act independently through a multitude of cells.

    A man who did great evil is now answerable to God. I pray for his soul. I give thanks that at least Osama’s involvement in evil has come to an end.

  • While most everyone’s celebrating, chances are this will only fuel more terrorist attacks and a new “bin Laden” will emerge to carry on jihad. I hope I’m wrong but wouldn’t be surprised if major retaliation in the form of mass murder doesn’t occur soon, possibly in America.

  • chances are this will only fuel more terrorist attacks and a new “bin Laden” will emerge to carry on jihad. I hope I’m wrong but wouldn’t be surprised if major retaliation in the form of mass murder doesn’t occur soon, possibly in America.

    You mean they have been saving their ammo for 10 years for a retaliatory demonstration shot?

  • All I’m saying is that the other shoe has yet to drop.

  • All I’m saying is that the other shoe has yet to drop.

    If al Qaeda has a shoe they can drop on us, I suppose they will, but I think we tend to overestimate their ability to suddenly achieve anything over here in the US by getting really mad these days.

  • Hello Michael,
    THANK YOU for posting “The Catholic Response to the Death of a Murderer “! It took courage and it is obvious that you are a Man of God..of faith! When I read the paper this morning, I wondered how many Catholics and other Christians would read the news of Osama’s death. You are so very right…as disciples of Christ..we must live the Message of Divine Mercy!
    The Dairy of St. Faustina says that the Lord calls upon the soul at the time of his/her death. Thank you for your act of faith and charity!
    I heard about your blog on “Women of Grace” EWTN program today, May 2nd. Will also like to share it on our TV/Radio weekly program in South Texas – “Catholicism Live!” on Catholic Television of San Antonio and Guadalupe Radio – grnonline.com.

  • Thank you for this column. It struck me when I heard the news that it was also Divine Mercy Sunday. I prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet for Osama bin Laden and his friends as soon as I heard of his death. I hope he will be forgiven by God if not by his fellow human beings.

  • Of course, Atla, bin Laden, Hitler, Muhammed, Pol Pot, Lenin, Mao, Ho, Che, et al could be in Heaven.

    But, not so much anyone that disagrees with you.

  • I hope that Bin Ladin repented. If not there is nothing that we can do for him.

  • If Hitler is in heaven, the God really needs to review his Plan.

  • I will merely quote what Mrs Zummo said above, because I concur with it entirely:

    “I see nothing wrong with celebrating a military victory in a just war, which is what this is. Osama had the chance to live by surrendering. He chose not to. His soul is in God’s hands, and I trust that He will do with it what is both just and merciful. This will not dampen my celebrating. Our soldiers have accomplished a great feat, and an enemy has been vanquished.”

  • I’m glad the bastard is gone and it’s a feel-good day, I suppose. Never saw so much celebration of death. Now Obama is going to cash in politically by visiting Ground Zero on Thursday, and do his George Bush megaphone shtick. 9/11 is the new Pearl Harbor promised by the neo-cons needed to revive American patriotism and military spending. It’s working just great. Geniuses.

  • Neocons had nothing to do with 9-11 Joe and the man who had everything to do with it has been judged by God. It is a very good day.

  • Don, read “The New American Century” — the pre-9/11 blueprint that said that only “a new Pearl Harbor” would revive military spending, etc. Of course, I know you are skeptical of conspiracy theories and don’t need to see Obama’s birth certificate, Osama’s body, nor the wounds in Jesus’ side to believe. Some of us, however, prefer a bit more proof.

    Doubting Joe

  • Joe Green, what we need proof of is the ridiculous scenario you’re implying.

  • Joe, go here to their website:

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/defensenationalsecurity.htm

    They were a public thinktank and you can read their publications on line. The suggestion that they had any involvement with 9-11 is bizarre, if that is the point you were trying to make.

  • Francis and Don: I’ve spent my life asking questions and, more importantly, questioning answers. I often do not accept things at face value. 40 years of journalism has given me a sense of objectivity that I find is missing from most people. More than most I know that the press separates the wheat from the chaff and prints the chaff.

  • Joe, Buddy!

    Do you “Swear there ain’t no Heaven, and pray there ain’t no Hell”?

    Er, are you a truther?

    Are you a journalist? I used to give interviews about “stuff” with which I was involved. None of them ever got it even close. I now see the reports misstated each week. I used to think it was simple dishonesty. Now, I’m moving towards arrogance and its sister, Stupidity.

    That would explain a great deal.

    MarkD: I am saddened you aren’t in Heaven, yet.

  • I’m just happy that the Loyal Order of Water Buffalos haven’t been called out.

    I may have said too much.

    Oh well.

  • Don, sorry to threadjack but was wondering whether you saw Andersonville directed by John Frankenheimer and what you thought of it.

  • Joe:

    As a soon to be journalist, your cynicism is extremely disheartening. Asking questions is great. Being a negative person really isn’t.

    This post really explains how we should view this event. It won’t be easy for anyone, but celebrating death is the last thing we should be doing right now – especially when have such a great opportunity for reconciliation and closure.

  • I think Joe brings up a very important point. Ever since I heard that Osama was killed (again, I thought he was already dead) I became more and more concerned that no one is asking any hard questions. This is too politically opportunistic for Obama. I am not saying that Osama wasn’t killed yesterday, but there is no proof and a great deal of questions that are not being asked and not being answered.

    Why was there a crowd of college kids mimicking a Tea Party to laud Obama as Bush III BEFORE the announcement was made? Why didn’t the secret service, the Marines and Capitol Police treat these people the way they treat everyone else including grandma in the same place? I live in enemy-occupied Northern Virginia, so i get into DC quite often; you can’t as much as sneeze in front of the White House without being questioned, especially if you are singing the anthem or displaying the colors. No one was molested and they were behaving like barbarians. Isn’t anyone else finding this odd? Why isn’t anyone wondering what that luatic Geraldo was doing in the middle of the crowd as a cheerleader? He is always ready to spit vitriol toward any Tea Party event or cheer anyone questioning the authority of the Church, why not these loons? I guess Fox thinks this is too good to pass up for their ‘conservative’ audience. No one is asking hard questions that celebrating the death of a bad guy who was impotent as a threat before he was killed. Al Qu’ida is still around. The Middle-east is more of a mess than ever. Jihadists are more ready than ever to strike. We will see a strike and the War on Terror will escalate and we will be pleased to become less free out out of fear.

    Additionally, did you notice that Obama’s focus-group studies had him correct his speech – He said our nation is under God – he has omitted that on numerous occasions recently. I would like to hope he had a conversion, but I doubt it. He also stuttered and stammered and usually he is so ‘eloquent’ and ‘articulate’. it seems he DOES have a conscience and it creates a tell in his speech when he disturbs it. He was lying – as usual.

    Before anyone jumps on me as a conspiracy nut job, I am not saying Osama was not killed yesterday; I am merely saying that we, at least our ‘free press’ should be asking harder questions. Would CNN and MSNBC and the NYT be as soft on Bush if he had declared that he killed Osama in October 2004? I just want more investigation – where’s the body?

  • Rose, life hardens some, softens others. In my case, cynicism has overtaken skepticism, I admit. The ideals of youth often are lost in old age. I wish you every success in your chosen field.

  • Knight, good to know I’m not alone in my skepticism of buying the White House line and media propaganda.

  • Joe, Buddy!

    Do you “Swear there ain’t no Heaven, and pray there ain’t no Hell”?

    Er, are you a truther?

    Are you a journalist? I used to give interviews about “stuff” with which I was involved. None of them ever got it even close. I now see the reports misstated each week. I used to think it was simple dishonesty. Now, I’m moving towards arrogance and its sister, Stupidity.

    That would explain a great deal.

    MarkD: I am saddened you aren’t in Heaven, yet.
    ===========================================
    T. Shaw: A lie goes around the world in a minute while truth hasn’t even gotten off the starting line. As I write this, Obama is milking Osama’s death for at least the third time publicly, using a Medal of Honor presentation to 2 Korean War vets posthumously to blow his horn — unseemly to say the least — then getting a standing O at a congressional dinner by boasting about the assassination.

  • I don’t know quote how this post became a conspiracy theory thread. I don’t think its plausible that Obama waited to kill Osama till this very minute, b/c that story makes no sense. However, I am slightly distrustful of the White House accounts of the raids, as it seems they’re trying to hide the fact that this was a kill mission and that whether or not bin Laden was unarmed or the Seals had an opportunity to capture him the only goal was to kill Bin Laden. But we shall have to see as more information becomes available; I hope that the killing was done justly.

  • I think they went in to take him out. Capture would not have meant closure.

  • I don’t think this has become a ‘conspiracy’ thread. I and, I think Joe Green, are simply asking questions. I am not saying he wasn’t killed yesterday, I am also not sure he didn’t die several years ago. The fact is our reaction to this event has a moral dimension and although our reaction to it is not necessarily predicated on this being a true story or mass propaganda it has some relevance. Worrying if this was a just kill or not would be silly if this is merely a tool of mass psychology. I just find it odd that we seem to be more concerned with vengeance cloaked as justice that we aren’t asking the hard questions. Obama has a history of deceit and only seems to have any ‘principles’ when it comes to defending the legal right to kill babies. Am I a conspiracy nut for not trusting him? I don’t think so. I want proof of death and I want to know why this has happened, why now and why in the way it did. Those are fair questions.

    If I had to lean one way or the other, I don’t think we killed him yesterday – I think he was already dead and now that we have more dragons in the middle-east the Osama bogey man has lost his use as tool of mass psychology. All the monsters abroad are permitted to ‘threaten’ us so long as it serves the money and power hungry political class, as soon as they are crossed, bye, bye. Either way, I want the truth and I intend to make my moral decisions based on that knowledge.

    Either way, I find the jubilation distasteful. I am glad that, for whatever reason, Osama is no longer a threat, that is something to be thankful for. Jubilant, not so much. I felt the same way when they hung Saddam. He certainly had more time to repent. I was sad that he had made himself into such a monster and I was glad that he was not able to do anymore harm. i thanked God for ending his terror. But, when I saw the Iraqi’s cheering, it made me sick. The guy lost his life, perhaps forever – that is never cause for joy; it can be just, but not joyful.

  • “Would CNN and MSNBC and the NYT be as soft on Bush if he had declared that he killed Osama in October 2004? ”

    But it’s not October 2004 -or October 2012. Look, while I am no fan of Obama’s, if he cynically planned this to boost his chances of reelection, his timing is way off. Yes, some on the left are crowing that this makes him a shoo-in for a second term, but they are as wrong as – well, as they usually are. Bush I had a 90% approval rating after the first Gulf War. And yet, 2 years later an previously unknown Southern governor was taking the oath of office. The economy of 1992 was peaches and cream compared to what we are going through now.

    I am glad justice was done and Osama will kill no more. I am willing to give Obama credit, but I also give credit to Dubya and, above all, to the brave men and women in our military. I also know that Osama’s death will not make a trip to the gas station or the grocery store less painful for already hard-pressed Americans nor will it create jobs or make socialized medicine more popular. Baring some unforeseen event (which of course can always occur), I am willing to wager that the 2012 election will be largely about domestic issues – and the Prez is not doing too well in that department.

  • Oh and Mark D, when last I heard from you, you were singing the praises of the wonderfully idealistic candidate from the wonderfully idealistic city of Chicago. If I recall correctly you maintained that Mr. Obama would end the dastardly Bush-Cheney wars, close Gitmo and lo, there would be peace on earth and lollipops would drop from the heavens. Instead Gitmo is still open, we’ve opened up a third front and Palestinians are rioting on the West Bank, so chagrined they are over the death of their hero, the mass murderer of thousands.

    Things aren’t quite working out the way you predicted, eh, Mr. D?

  • Michael Denton said, “I hope the killing was done justly.” I am sure that it was done as justly as what Jael wife of Heber did to Sisera who was persecuting the children of Israel in Judges chapter 4 (albeit that God allowed this because of rebellion – I see lots of parallels here). Verse 21 says, “Jael wife of Heber took a tent peg and hammer, tiptoed toward him, and drove the tent peg through his temple and all the way into the ground. He convulsed and died.” And perhaps it was done as justly as when God sent to she-bears after the youths who taunted Elisha for being bald in 2nd Kings 2nd Kings 2:23-25.

    God does the same thing in the same way every time because He always does it right.

  • Oh, and one last thing – the US military has sent a mass murderer to God’s Judgment Seat, having first given him a chance to surrender, but he refused. And those with him used a woman as a shield, the news reports. So now they stand before the Almighty.

  • “I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.” – Martin Luther King Jr.

  • I deleted your last comment Joe. I enjoy a good rant more than the next man I think, but this is Michael’s thread and your lengthy rant would have taken it in any number of directions other than the topic of the thread, with the remainder of the thread being taken up in a back and forth between you and those responding to your rant. I would urge everyone to stay focused on the topic raised by Michael in his post.

  • Mea culpa.

  • My thoughts in short, if I may:

    1) Forgiveness doesn’t mean to allow one to escape punishment. Blessed Pius IX sent more than 200 people to the scaffold. Fortunately, he didn’t do third-rate Christianity. Osama got what he deserved, less than he deserved.

    2) I agree that it is not right to wish hell to anyone. I do not wish hell even to Stalin or Pol Pot. Still, one is allowed by his religion to make an educated guess, and I think that in this case the educated guess contains a terrible warning.

    3) I am all in favour of forgiving OBL after he has got his two bullets in the head. “Forgiving” doesn’t mean that he was right, but the we do not wish him more punishment the one God in his justice will consider adequate for him.

    4) I have prayed for him, after some effort (and have blogged about it). I can’t reproach those to whom this would smack of goodism or hypocrisy. That the man is in hell is objectively so probable, that one is justified if he doesn’t feel like praying for him.

    5) It is right to jubilate and be merry (and I am going to blog on this, too). He was a military target and his demise is the equivalent of military victories of the past. Provided one doesn’t pollute his joy with hatred, I think it is perfectly fine to rejoice.

    6) Allow me, as a European, to express my warmest thanks to – and admiration for – the only Country which still has the guts to pay the price – in money, and in lives – to defend our liberty.

    You should be very proud of being Americans.

    Mundabor

    Mundabor

  • Michael, thank you for this Christian view. It is so hard for us to understand our call, and it is exactly in these difficult moments that we must continue to witness to Christ and make him present. I have been quite uneasy at the celebration – and while it is REALLY difficult we must pray for our enemies.

    The celebrations where people were chanting USA as if it was an Olympic event demonstrated to me something very sad about our country. This was not the end of WWII, it was the death of a man. Perhaps necessary, even good, but that is not something of sport.

    To me it spoke of how Bin Laden’s hate has infected others. While understandable, it is difinitely not Christian.

  • I always get uneasy when people who are ostensibly American citizens don’t want to take any pride in their country or its armed forces when these forces send a vicious murderer (who was given the chance to surrender and refused) to the Almighty for final judgment. However…………that being said, Obama’s sanctification of the murder of the unborn is very bit as evil as Osama’s terrorism. If one doesn’t feel pride in America because of our own evil against the unborn, then I can understand that. But some previous comments seem to be more of a sympathy party for the wicked than a remorse for the sexual immorality and infanticide of the unborn that this country commits within its own borders on a daily basis, all of which makes the Presidential announcer of Osama’s death the biggest hypocrite of all.

    I suggest we repent and get holy before what happened to Osama happens to us. We don’t have hate of Osama infecting us as much as we have sin (idolatry, adultery, fornication, homosexual sodomy, murder, thievery, etc.) infecting us regardless of Osama bin Laden. If he was evil, then what are we?

  • Now we’re hearing Osama wasn’t armed, was using a cane, had kidney disease and didn’t use a human shield. Stay tuned for more updates on our never-ending wall-to-wall coverage of the death of the “world’s most dangerous terrorist.”

    Meanwhile, let’s hear from Joseph Goebbels:

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

  • Joe,

    Do you have web links to reputable web sites substantiating your assertions? No news report I have seen too date has made the claims you have made. Furthermore, being a liar, “Joseph Goebbels” would lie as much for the conspiracy theorist who believes everything that is truly American is damned as he would lie for an American propagandist who believes that everything isn’t American is damned. The key word here is “lie.”

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  • Hmmm….One’s definition of a “teputable web site” would depend on whether the views and opinions expressed therein comfort with one’s own, wouldn’t it? I confess to swimming against the tide, Paul, and for that I am willing to suffer the strong currents I encounter. Each of us is free to believe or disbelieve that which we perceive to be the truth of matters.

    More to your point, as I am not sure to what “claims” you are referring to inasmuch as I have made many, I am unable to respond in the particular.

    As for Goebbels and his ilk, I believe it’s not unreasonable to think that we have much to learn from history’s errors, although so far mankind as shown little ability to grasp such lessons.

    One can always hope.

  • Joe,

    I’m actually not interested in opinion, just the facts. What substantiation is there for the assertion that Osama, 54 years of age, was walking with a cane and had kidney disease? Are their photographs of him with a cane? Are their medical reports of some kind concerning his kidney disease? Or is all this just another claim made in the swarm of confusion over this event and its aftermath?

    BTW, history indicates Hitler had some form neurological disease that caused uncontrollable shaking on one side of his body, and had other afflictions as well. None of that stopped him from his evil. Furthermore, just because someone is physically sick doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t reap what he has sown.

    I wouldn’t be quick too damn all that is American with the exception that I noted in a previous comment.

  • Paul, the Osama info was a “crawler” on Fox News an hour ago. Is that “reputable” enough for you? Other corporateland state-owned media, including CNN and AP, have reported that no human shield was used despite first reports. So, from the first bulletins of the Seals facing a blaze of gunfire from bin Laden, we now are being told that he was defenseless and lame. Perhaps then, as the story and legend unfold, it would do well to wait until all the “facts” are in.

    “History indicates”? I’d need better sourcing than that. But conceding the point, if a neurological disease could be classified as a mental disorder than perhaps Hitler, with a good lawyer, might have made a decent defense on insanity grounds and would have wound up with a lesser sentence than a firing squad. (grist for a novelist)

  • Joe Green,
    Your self-righteous posturing as a martyr for truth is plain silly. I think I’m paraphrasing Chesterton when I say that one effect of unbelief is not that the unbeliever believes in nothing but that he’ll believe anything.

  • Francis, I take vast comfort in the fact that I am virtually alone in my position. I thanks whatever gods that be that we are on opposite sides.

  • Joe, what if Francis has chosen God’s side? Where does your statement then leave you? I am not accusing you or judging you, but your remark indicates atheism or at least agnosticism: “whatever gods there may be”. There is only ONE God – Yahweh – and His Son Yeshua gave His life so that you and I may be free of sin (which really is the ONLY freedom that ultimately counts). If you don’t believe that, then I do NOT rejoice that we are on opposite sides of the fence. Rather, I would grieve for you (if I understand you correctly). How could I NOT want Heaven for everyone? Even you (bad choice of words I suppose)? But that requires repentance (which evidence indicates Osama did not possess, but we don’t know for 100% certainty, just a 99% likelihood).

    And no, I do NOT presume to suppose I am on the fast track to Heaven. Personally, I’ll be happy to make it to a 1000 years in Purgatory because I know what I deserve, but mercy is not getting what you do deserve. OK, enough of a divergence. I suppose this is off topic. Sorry.

  • Oh! Oh! Is the catholic Liberal Intelligentsia coalescing in outrage over the murder of Usma bin Laden? Seems not so much coagulating goes on over 45,000,000 abortions.

    Furthermore, Obama made three major speech trumpeting this war crime and unlawful invasion/violation of Pakistani National Sovereignty.

    Meanwhile, I’m writing an endorsement for his nomination for a second nobel peace prize.

    hahahahahahahaha . . .

  • You guys are something else if not entertaining. I give up. At this point, I concede everything. You are all right and I am all wrong. It is my sincere hope that this will gladden your day and end any further discourse in this thread.

  • Joe, we’re not the ones who are supposed to be recognized as right. Rather, Jesus is right. Concede nothing to us. Concede everything to Him.

  • I’d take that under advisement.

  • Mundabor wrote:

    “Allow me, as a European, to express my warmest thanks to – and admiration for – the only Country which still has the guts to pay the price – in money, and in lives – to defend our liberty.
    You should be very proud of being Americans.”

    Thank you for your kind words.

  • I’m appalled that some of you are praying for this man’s soul, as if he deserves the benefit of the doubt of damnation. Man up, my friends, and put your money where your mouth is – ask your priest to offer a Mass for Osama bin Laden. When he laughs you out of the church, I hope you realize that you’re not responding to this like the Church should.

    God’s mercy is endless and all things are possible with God. However, that mercy has to be responded to in order for someone to be saved. We cannot place any individual in hell, but we have a duty to act decently. Placing Osama bin Laden in the same camp as a dead, misguided, anti-Catholic family member is very indecent.

  • To the poster who mentioned our rejoicing (without prayers for dead Turkish invaders, I might add) over Lepanto – Thank you. You couldn’t be more on target.

  • God’s mercy is endless and all things are possible with God. However, that mercy has to be responded to in order for someone to be saved. We cannot place any individual in hell, but we have a duty to act decently. Placing Osama bin Laden in the same camp as a dead, misguided, anti-Catholic family member is very indecent.

    This makes no sense to me. You have the same evidence of repentance for Bin Laden as you have for a family member. Why is indecent then? We hope all people, even the disgusting ones, accepted God at the end. That’s not the same as saying they are just as likely as Osama. I would say it unlikely that Osama did whereas most people we know are more likely to have done so.

    I don’t think that’s indecent; I think it’s hopeful & realistic.

  • It now looks like Osama wasn’t involved in a firefight. Was it still a just action if it were an execution? Even if Osama could’ve been taken alive safely?

  • Assuming that the SEALs were engaged in a fire fight with anyone in the compound, bin Laden as the presumed commander would have been a target on sight unless he immediately announced his surrender. This of course leaves aside a consideration that I am sure would have been in the minds of the SEALs: is bin Laden wearing a suicide belt rigged with explosives, a trick engaged in by so many of his minions in the past. This was far from a normal military operation against a conventional foe.

  • The Commander in Chief has ordered a standing kill order on Osama, so whether armed or not, the kill was justified.

  • Let’s talk hypothetically then.
    Bin Laden is in his compound alone. He’s naked with nothing in his hands.
    Would killing him still be justified?

  • The proper authority, George W. Bush, as Commander in Chief, gave a justified standing kill order for a mass murderer that attacked innocent lives in a cowardly act. To my knowledge his successor did not rescind that order. Any member of the US military is justified in carrying out that order irrespective of the conditions at the time.

    Bin Laden could have turned himself in anytime in the last nine years and then we would have been under obligation to take him into custody alive.

  • “He’s naked with nothing in his hands.
    Would killing him still be justified?”

    Yes, so we wouldn’t have to look at his ugly butt.

  • I’m impressed with the professionalism and training of the SEALS. I could not have hit anything while laughing my head off.

    Does anyone know what were Obama’s last words?

  • T. Shaw:
    Wednesday, May 4, 2011 A.D. at 11:18am

    I’m impressed with the professionalism and training of the SEALS. I could not have hit anything while laughing my head off.

    Does anyone know what were Obama’s last words?
    ===================================
    Possibilities:

    “Ever hear of knocking?”
    “Please!!! My real name is Moses Goldstein!”
    “If you’re the police, where are your badges?”
    “I was just gonna make some espresso.”
    “Virgins, here I come!!”

  • GENEVA (Reuters) – The United Nations’ top human rights official called on the United States Tuesday to give the U.N. details about Osama bin Laden’s killing and said that all counter-terrorism operations must respect international law.
    […]
    “This was a complex operation and it would be helpful if we knew the precise facts surrounding his killing. The United Nations has consistently emphasized that all counter-terrorism acts must respect international law,” Pillay said in a statement issued in response to a Reuters request.

    Here is one response that says it all:

    http://i52.tinypic.com/2wmkjgo.jpg

  • Perhaps the administration should’ve simply said, “Bin Laden was killed in a firefight. These are are the details we’ll give.”

    But I suppose the media and the public are too curious for that to be sufficient.

  • I don’t have a problem with OBL being in heaven some day with me (assuming I make it) because I trust not only in our loving God’s mercy but also his justice.

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