Rorate Caeli has a report on the visitation made of the Sisters of the Immaculate:
Regarding the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate’s visitation (see our previous post here) by an external agent (Sister Fernanda Barbiero of the Institute of the Teaching Sisters of St. Dorothy, named as Visitator by the Congregation for Religious), Rorate has received the following information from our trustworthy source:
1) The Visitation lasted just a little under three months between May and July 2014.2) The Franciscan Sisters made an appeal to the Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura against an arbitrary attribution of power and the Signatura admitted they were right by limiting the Apostolic Visitator’s power “ad inquirendum et referendum”.3) Sister Barbiero visited the active Italian Nuns and asked the Congregation to send two other “Visitators” to visit the Contemplative Nuns: 2 Abbesses from the Poor Clares: Damiana Tiberio and Cristiana Mondonico, from the Protomonastery in Assisi and the Monastery of the Trinity in Gubbio, respectively.4) The two Visitators spent about a week in the two monasteries of Alassio and Città di Castello, meticulously questioning all of the sisters; the Visitators were openly disdainful about the Traditional Mass, among other things.5) The Visitators told the nuns that they prayed too much, that they did too much penance, and that the contemplatives were “too cloistered,” whatever that may mean for contemplative nuns; they told them that they urgently needed a “re-education” program according to the criteria of Vatican II.
Go here to read the rest. It appears that under the present pontificate tolerance is to be extended to all, except to Catholics who do not believe that the Church started with Vatican II.
Um, it was my impression that contemplative nuns were supposed to be pretty much, well, shut away from the world? Maybe only growing only a vegetable garden, having some goats, etc. Allowing the odd visitor to come and remain quiet for the duration of her stay?
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I can only wonder what the Vatican thinks of the Carthusian monks of Into Great Silence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgNj2Sf_mgo
Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate are still persons entitled to the Faith, the truth of Jesus Christ and the obligation to answer their vocation. Not even the Pope can change God’s will for the Sisters. This idea that one person can own another person or persons is still called slavery and communism. The freedom in the Catholic Church to worship God according to our free will and vocation must remain a beacon to all people for all time.
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We here still have two parishes in our Diocese where the Blessed Sacrament is kept in the sacristy away from the community. There will be no visits to the Blessed Sacament for you, today, holy roller.
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Pope Benedict XVI said that the people are entitled to the truth of the Faith and of Jesus Christ. (but only if Pope Francis allows it?)
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Does Pope Francis really own the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate? If Pope Francis owns the Sisters, then Pope Francis must pay hell for the sisters’ sins. The Bible says that only for his own sins must a man be punished.
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The Sisters own their own sovereingty, even before the sisters entered the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate. If the sisters were not sovereign, then the sisters could not take religious vows, or offer their soverignty to God, which the sisters have done.
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This effort is to denigrate and abolish the sisters’ sovereignty before they entered into religious life. Communism.
#5) ? Too much prayer….too much penance….too cloistered???
Good heavens! Now we know why the state of the world is in such chaos. It’s those darn sisters. We must start satan worship soon so we can turn the world around.
🙁 Unbelievable report.
Again I will say that whatever the issue is with this religious order, it is not TLM. Nor is it, Donald, as you say not believing that the Church began with Vatican II. That is a false teaching no matter who holds it.
However, IF (and I emphasize the word IF) the Sisters do not believe that Vatican II is a an authentic and authoritative Ecumenical-General Council of the Church-that would be a major issue that needs to be addressed in continuing to be considered Catholic
Visitations, apostolic administrators etc and ongoing discussions with the Congregation of the Faith continue with those groups, orders, societies-whether they be the LCWR or the SSPX etc to bring them along into fuller communion with the Church
Shades of Port-Royal?
Hopefully not!
“Sister Barbiero visited the active Italian Nuns and asked the Congregation to send two other “Visitators” to visit the Contemplative Nuns…”
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Quod non fecerunt i barbari, fecerunt Sorelle Barbiero et i visitatori.
And: “The Visitators told the nuns…that they urgently needed a “re-education” program according to the criteria of Vatican II.”
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Too bad. Sorella Barbiero has work to do:
“It is always a much easier task to educate uneducated people than to re-educate the mis-educated.” –George Orwell
If the worst comes to the worst, the Sisters (and the Friars, for that matter) should park themselves with the SSPX and wait for the Vatican to come to its senses, however long it takes.
I would be slow indeed to question the judgment of two abbesses of the Poor Clares on the life of contemplative women religious in the Franciscan tradition, especially when they have had the advantage of observing the demeanour of those they interviewed;
Pope Francis will allow our dear Frandciscan Sisters of the Immaculate to be destroyed. With tears I say this.
Why will he allow this? Because he can’t stop it.
Our Lady of Fatima said: “Without me you can do nothing”.
“Experience has taught me that innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does. Innocence is a mighty shield, and the man or woman covered by it, is much more likely to answer calmly: ‘My life is blameless. Look into it, if you like, for you will find nothing.’ That is the tone of innocence.”–Whitaker Chambers
Philip: “#5) ? Too much prayer….too much penance….too cloistered???”
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The Sisters-of-the-Immaculate wrote their constitution which was approved by the Vatican. The Vatican does not have any authority to rewrite the constitution for the sisters. And reprogramming does not sould like abbesses from St. Clare. Again the Vatican does not own the Sisters’ congregation. I can only think this nonsense is to balance the visitation of LCWR in America.
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Pope Francis does not need to worry about the LCWR. They haven’t had the traditional Latin Mass, only some Gaia dances.
Mary De Voe-
I hope in a redemptive sense, that the sisters join in Christ’s sufferings as this plays out. It is the only grace that I can see. Not that my sight is perfect mind you, however a sharing in Jesus’ passion comes into focus as I read this statement from the “visitors.”
He too was told by authorities that he was doing things incorrectly. Eating with sinners tax collector’s et al.
As the Sisters join their sufferings in Christs sufferings a profound blessing is poured forth for the fallen world. Nothing is waisted when we look at sufferings united to the suffering servant.
Peace.
Philip: We are talking about Christ’s vicar on earth.
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Exercising their sovereign personhood and free will through informed consent, the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate are answering their vocation. Sovereign personhood, free will and informed consent are vital for the Sisters’ vow. The Sisters vow obedience to the rule in their convent and to their superiors. The vow the Sisters make of obedience to the superiors in no ways denies, disables or denigrates their sovereign personhood, free will, and informed consent.
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The Rule approved by the Vatican and written by the community at its inception is not open to change by the Vatican. While correction is not change, cannot be change and must not be change, change will violate the Sisters’ free will.
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Litany of Humility
That others may become holier than I,
provided that I may become as holy as I should.
– Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val
Mary De Voe-
The abuse of power over the Sisters from the vicar of Christ are the sufferings I speak of.
What else can the order do to uphold their vows other than break away from Rome? My suggestion was sincere.
I place my Trust in Jesus especially in circumstances when their seems to be no justice.
Am I wrong?
I hope my suggestion wasn’t taken to mean giving up. On the contrary. It’s message is unity with the one they love so dearly. He finds a way when there seems to be no way. The power that exists today has no hold on tomorrow.
For tomorrow is only a idea. The reality is today and only today. No one holds tomorrow in their hands.
I pray for the Sister’s order.
I know you have as well.
Mary De Voe-
I participate weekly in our perpetual Eucharistic Adoration program and find great peace in our TLM on Sunday at 11am. I tell you because I am blown away by the position our Holy Father has taken regarding our Sisters of the Immaculate.
I am very simple. I do admire the community of learned Catholics that voice their concerns on this site.
I choked when I read from the Visitators that the Sisters prayed too much too much penance and were to cloistered.
I thought I was reading a report from the White House thought police division.
What can the Sisters do?
My mention of break away from Rome was sarcasm and frustration for their predicament.
Philip,
Let us hope and pray that it does not come to the Sisters breaking away from Rome
Botolph and Philip: I am afraid that it is Rome that is breaking away. If Rome refuses to acknowledge the goodness of the Sisters, it is not the Sisters’ fault.
Mary,
Rome does not break away. The successor of Peter and the bishops in union with him, and the ordained, religious and laity in union with them who are and make up the Catholic Church
To answer Jesus’ question from Luke chpt. 18:8, as far as the Sisters of the Immaculate are concerned, the answer is YES! Yes. When the Son of God returns to the earth He will find true Faith. He will find it in hearts of His children. His adorers. His poor. His broken. His outcasts. His prodigal’s.
God knows hearts. He will find the Sisters have filled their lamps full of oil.
Oh sure…some will come to the sisters begging for oil, but alas, by then if you haven’t brought enough for yourselves you might just miss the bridegroom.
Wise are the Sisters of the Immaculate!
Please excuse the missing (?) question marks from my last entry. Ran out of them I guess. 🙂
Botolph,
The successor to Peter and the bishops in union with him are not beyond criticism. Nor is the Novus Ordo Mass as it is too often “celebrated”. Nor are orders such as Maryknoll, the Society of Jesus and the LCWR – to name a few. Pope Francis has not done anything of notice to rein in any of them.
I continue to be incensed at the treatment of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculata and, now the good Sisters. Under the current pontificate, one had better not favor Tradition.
I find Mary’s statement to be mild. It was St. Catherine of Siena who told the Pope that she could smell him from miles away.
Only the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate can request release from their vow to God. The Sisters’ vow to God is inviolate.
Philip: I call the question mark, especially the Spanish question mark which is upside down and which comes before the question as a warning to souls, Saint Peter’s hook for catching souls. God bless.
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Philip and Penguins Fan: Thank you for your comments.
Thank you Mary De Voe!
Great point on the hook to catch souls.
In my haste I thought I missed a sentence posed as a question. With your comment I’m reminded to s l o w down and review prior to entry into post.
Have a blessed day.
Penguins Fan,
No human being or institution is above criticism-but that goes right across the board. Within the Church the Lord calls us to a special form of criticism-one always filled with charity: fraternal correction (on the personal level) and prophetic criticism (on the communal level) We already have an outine of what fraternal correction looks like from Matthew 18. However what does this “prophetic criticism” really look like?
Certainly any pope-and, by the way, St Catherine of Siena is one of my favorite saints-heroines of the Church, is able to be criticized. I have said so on posts in here. Some need great criticism. However, prophetic criticism, as we see in Catherine of Siena and Bridgidde of Sweden comes from the heart of the Church, from the core, from the Gospel [all that the Church teaches] and the Eucharist. It speaks of the omission of or even commission against the actual vocation and mission of the ministry of Peter [for example: (Catherine of Siena: “Get your sedes (“seat”) back to Rome as bishop of Rome”!). It arises from, insists on and seeks to constantly maintain its (the prophetic criticism) own community (unity) with the Church but also seeks to maintain and further the communion-unity of the Church-never to divide or even to weaken it.
Prophetic criticism always seeks holiness [which is by no means the same as sanctimonious] The Lord calls each of us and all of us to
1) ongoing, life long conversion of life
2) ever deepening of faith, hope and love
3) to know, follow and imitate Him
Prophetic criticism recognizes that ‘one cannot take the splinter out of the other’s eye before taking the beam out of one’s own. Needless to say that is not at all comfortable. It really is much easier to ‘cast the first stone’. Therefore, the Lord’s statement, “Let the first one without sin cast the first stone” has a meaning that goes way beyond that scene in the streets of Jerusalem two thousand years ago.
So does that mean one simply keeps quiet? No, that’s the other extreme. It just means one recognizes that the whole Church is made up of sinners-(hopefully)-in-the-process-of-being-made-saints, including that pope, bishop, priest, deacon, monknun, other lay person—and of course myself-and you. It means always keeping this perspective.
Further prophetic criticism within the Church must be Catholic-not simply taking in the universal nature (versus a sectarian version) of the Church but “of the whole”. It arises out of ‘the whole Tradition” and not just parts of it. This Catholic aspect of prophetic criticism prevents the criticism from being enslaved to personal perspectives,distortions, etc [in the end it really is not all about “me”]. as well as, ideological projections and constructions.
Finally, ‘prophetic criticism’ remains faithful to the apostolic nature of the Church. That is two-fold. It means remaining faithful to the apostolic faith but as it is expressed by the fullness of apostolic succession and office: those bishops in full communion with the pope. Other churches do have apostolic succession of their bishops, but without communion with the whole ‘apostolic college’ (all bishops with pope as their head) they are not fully successors of the Apostolic College {All the Apostles with Peter as their head]. It is the apostolic faith taught by the full apostolic college to which real ‘prophetic criticism’ calls one and all.
Botolph: “Prophetic criticism always seeks holiness [which is by no means the same as sanctimonious] The Lord calls each of us and all of us to
1) ongoing, life long conversion of life
2) ever deepening of faith, hope and love
3) to know, follow and imitate Him
Prophetic criticism recognizes that ‘one cannot take the splinter out of the other’s eye before taking the beam out of one’s own.”
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Botolph: Are you saying that those people who want to see the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate keep their vows and continue to live in community are “sanctimonious”?
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“This Catholic aspect of prophetic criticism prevents the criticism from being enslaved to personal perspectives,distortions, etc [in the end it really is not all about “me”]. as well as, ideological projections and constructions.
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Botolph: Are you saying that the Community of the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate are not shinning stars in the heavens as ideological projections and constructions as holy examples of powerful, prayerful souls?
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“It is the apostolic faith taught by the full apostolic college to which real ‘prophetic criticism’ calls one and all.”
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Botolph: Are you saying that the Sisters’ immortal vows to their infinite Beloved violate the apostolic faith taught by the full apostolic college to which real “prophetic criticism” calls one and all, in the Sisters’ Beloved’s Church?
Mary De Voe,
No, I was speaking strictly about ‘prophetic criticism’ within the Church concerning issues, personages and institutions within the Church. I was responding to Penguins Fan
As for the Sisters of the Immaculate, I know only two things from all that I have read.
1) The issue is not the Latin Mass
2) There is some other (or several) issues going on which the Vatican is concerned about and is seeking to address. What those are besides the vague comments from the Poor Clare Visitators, I do not know for sure.
-When the issue came up about the men’s order, there was some ‘talk’ concerning one of the Sisters exercising a great deal of influence on them concerning a negative evaluation of Vatican II. If that is accurate then that could very well be the issue. This would be considered on both the doctrinal and full ecclesial communion aspect of Catholic Faith and religious life
-within the Congregation for Religious there could be more specific concerns vis a vis their interpetation of the Rule of St Francis, for example. This is not something new in the history of the Church, nor more specifically among the Franciscans
-Financial stewardship (I have not heard of this connected with the Sisters) would be another concern that would bring “concern” and some oversight
As we speak, similar issues and concerns are being addressed with the LCWR and the Legionaires, so the Sisters are by no means alone. Notice that these are on the level of the institution. Within religious orders we can all say we know that so and so is way out on their thinking or teaching etc but it is not at the level of the whole order
I hope this has helped and clarified this Mary. If you are still ‘surprised’ etc by the visitation of the Sisters, just read Saint Paul’s Letters, especially his two letters to the Corinthians. They (the Letters accompanied by were instruments of an ‘apostolic visitation’ sent along with Titus and an unnamed disciple of Paul [Apostolic Visitors!]
Yes, Botolph. I know that your comment is addressed to Penguins Fan. My concern stems from your use of the word “sanctimonious”, which has no place in this real conversation about very serious issues. Your seizure of the concept of “prophetic criticism” excluding other commentors smacks of “sanctimonious”.
Boltoph,
I did not bother to read your post. I have a suggestion – you ignore what I post and I’ll ignore yours – as I currently do.
Mary, it strikes me as more than a coincidence that the FFI and the Sisters are subject to this type of intense scrutiny. Among the things that the Sisters were cited for, according to Rorate, is an “attraction to the Latin Mass”.
The Second Vatican Council should be reexamined in light of the “fruits” it has produced and the vagueness of the documents, none of which is supposed to be dogmatic, but are all treated as such. The statement about Muslims should be stricken out. It flies in the face of Church history of dealing with Islam.
As for the Novus Ordo – the Bugnini cut and tape job as Father Z so succintly puts it – the Church of the West would have been better served with a vernacular translation of the 1962 Missal.
Penguin’s Fan wrote of “an “attraction to the Latin Mass.”
In its Instruction on the application of Summorum Pontificum (30 April 2011) the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei specify that “The faithful who ask for the celebration of the forma extraordinaria must not in any way support or belong to groups which show themselves to be against the validity or legitimacy of the Holy Mass or the Sacraments celebrated in the forma ordinaria or against the Roman Pontiff as Supreme Pastor of the Universal Church.”
Our Holy Father has expressed the same concern, “there are particular issues, like the liturgy according to the Vetus Ordo. I think the decision of Pope Benedict [his decision of July 7, 2007, to allow a wider use of the Tridentine Mass] was prudent and motivated by the desire to help people who have this sensitivity. What is worrying, though, is the risk of the ideologization of the Vetus Ordo, its exploitation.”
It would be disingenuous to claim that “attraction to the Latin Mass” has not become, in some cases, the badge of a schismatic faction.
Penguins Fan,
Thank you for responding even though you ignore my posts [huh lol?] However, you have clarified well what I meant by ideosyncratic
Mary De Voe,
Are you saying criticisms can only be directed in one direction-toward the Pope and the Catholic hierarchy?
MPS: “It would be disingenuous to claim that “attraction to the Latin Mass” has not become, in some cases, the badge of a schismatic faction.”
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Police cannot arrest a person until a crime has been committed.
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Botolph: “Mary De Voe,
Are you saying criticisms can only be directed in one direction-toward the Pope and the Catholic hierarchy?”
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Now, you are being sanctimonious.
Mary De Voe,
In your earlier post, you picked up that in describing ‘prophetic criticism’ I was in some way striking out at the Sisters of the Immaculate. I thought I had responded sufficiently stating I was not, nor actually was I criticizing anyone positing in here. I was describing what criticism of the Church, from within the Church would/should/could look like. That was simply it.
I then explained to you what I knew concerning the Sisters-which again, at least in my mind etc was not an attack on them, and certainly not on you.
We have had so many friendly and constructive discussions etc, I want to end this ‘problem’ we seem to have But I need your help. How can I make myself clearer to you?
Mary De Voe wrote, “Police cannot arrest a person until a crime has been committed.”
No, but they can require them to consign caution and security to be of good behaviour and to keep the peace.
Michael Paterson-Seymour: “Mary De Voe wrote, “Police cannot arrest a person until a crime has been committed.”
No, but they can require them to consign caution and security to be of good behaviour and to keep the peace.”
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In the secular, it is called giving a good account of oneself, and is a requirement of good citizenship. The only thing the Vatican can demand of the Sisters is a sworn oath to faithfulness to the Catholic Church, the Credo. Too much penance and prayer and attraction to the Latin Mass in no way violates the Sisters’ faithfulness to the Catholic Church.
Thank you for sharing this info. I refrain from making a pos. or neg. statement because I don’t think one article tells it all. The media today, can sway people. There is nothing that the devil would like more than to cause the holy ranks of good Catholics to be divided. Before we bash the Pope please refrain from making quick decisions until you get accurate reports. The Pope is very busy & I’m sure there is a great desl deligated to others who should be trustworthy. Let’s check into this & find out if Pope Francis agrees, if there is some other reason for the comments but most of all pray for these seemingly good sisters & those in authority. God sees it all. Let us just be cautious & loving before we criticize the Pope & Jesus, who builds His Church.