Protestants often ask for the prayers of others. The same principle is involved. The idea that the dead do not pray to God for us here on Earth has always struck me as bizarre.
Thought for the Day
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
My wife and St Anthony are a team. Whenever we misplace something, I ask her to ask him to help find it. Never fails.
I had a colleague in the corporate law mines, a very pleasant and intelligent woman of strict Southern Baptist heritage and belief (before that denomination’s recent slide into secularism). We often discussed matters such as this, and she always insisted that the souls in Heaven not only cannot intercede for us, but don’t know or care about anything going on in the material world. Citations to Scriptural hints, especially from Revelation, never seemed to move her. The only explanation I could come up with for her stubborn position was a lifetime of being told the Catholics are wrong about everything.
Using reason with unreasonable people is a form of insanity.
The Protestant position of Bible alone is just plain nuts. The American Protestant position that the KJV is treated as if it fell from Heaven is nuttier.
Where the New Testament came from, how and when it was compiled matters not. Jesus spoke English as far as they are concerned. The Bible says in English that Jesus had brothers and sisters, so in their childish interpretation Mary and Joseph had kids together. Meanwhile the Angel Gabriel’s message to Mary is ignored. It is intellectual dishonesty.
Protestantism is a heresy that is dying out.
Back before I was Catholic, I don’t ever recall having a problem with the intercession of the saints. To be fair, I didn’t give it much thought for much of my pre-Catholic life, but once it was presented to me as serious claim, it didn’t really pose any trouble. I think if I did have issues, it was more wondering about the mechanics of it. But as far as the logic is concerned, I don’t see how any Christian who actually affirms the “communion of saints” and understands what that really means can in principle reject it.
I think for many Protestants, especially those who come out of the Lutheran or Calvinist strands (I came out of the Wesleyan/Anglican strand), it all comes downstream of the doctrine of sola fide, especially the notion that the formal cause of justification is not the righteousness of God infused in the soul, but an extrinsic declaration of justice in view of God’s justice which does not necessarily correspond to an interior renovation of heart. This retains within the relationship between the elect and God a fundamental breach that even justification doesn’t repair, since the soul is still under the bondage of sin and is only “just” insofar as the soul trusts in Christ and His justification and the person is deemed justified in light of that. The “Church” thus becomes a conglomeration of the elect whom God declares “just” but have no essential bond of charity between them that exists within the soul as coming from the charity of God poured into the soul by the Holy Ghost; any bond surmised is completely extrinsic to them. Because of this there is also no bond of charity between those in the Church militant and those in the Church Triumphant.
(On a tangential note, something like Purgatory would seem to be positively required by Lutheranism and Calvinism so that the elect are actually made righteous posthumously, unless they enjoy the Beatific Vision while still remaining at enmity with God in their hearts for eternity.)
At any rate, what I think this has done downstream is to create a conception within the evangelical branches of Protestantism–especially those in America–in which the believer stands *primarily* as an individual before God, and in which the bond of charity in Christ in the Church is nominalistically conceived. This same mindset then gets transferred to the saints who exist in basically the same relationship to God and to others, but just with more perks, which is how some Protestants can come to conceive of the saints having no interest in or charity for the world, the believers in the Church Militant, etc. The downstream logic of sola fide also creates no unity of will between the justified and God; when this gets transferred to the saints there is no notion of the saints existing in perfect union of charity and will with God, but rather them more or less individually beholding the Beatific Vision, assuming such language is ever even used. I’ve noticed most views of heaven within this framework tend to be more along the lines of what Limbo would entail, which is traditionally seen as the first level of hell, which is fascinating to ponder. C.S. Lewis noted that our problem is not that we desire too much, but rather too little, and he’s probably right. We are made for God and can happy with nothing less.
But if one does not understand that the saints exist in the union of heart and will with God but simply have more perks in heaven than on earth, I guess I can see how it would be difficult to understand the intercession of the saints. I think apologetics on this probably need to dwell more on correcting fundamental errors about what prayer is, what the communion of saints is, etc., rather than getting bogged down in chapter and verse.
David WS:
Many in my family call on St. Anthony for help. One aunt of mine even used to “bribe” him – if you help me find such-and-such, I’ll drop a donation in the poor box. He always came through for her. Her cousin asked why she needed to bribe St. Anthony, as she had always relied on him without cost. So, my aunt decided to ask for help without promise of adding to the poor box. Well, nothing happened. My aunt prayed again to no avail. Finally, she said she would give to the poor if he, St. Anthony, came through. Sure enough, she soon found what she had lost. I don’t know what it all means, but it is a humorous story passed on for years. BTW, we also rely heavily on prayers to our guardian angels, St. Joe, and the Little Flower. And, of course, Mama Mary. Communion of saints – all in the family.
Every faithful Catholic is surrounded by unseen loving friends. I find this to be of great comfort. My Bride has never appealed to Saint Anthony in vain, and she is a convert from Methodism, and now a better Catholic than I will ever be.
“Every faithful Catholic is surrounded by unseen loving friends.”
How true and it is comforting. This weekend two prayer groups prayed for two babies. The first one was Atlas who was born with holes in his heart. His grandmother was cured of an autoimmune disease at Lourdes. She prayed and used Lourdes water on his chest. As a result only one hole was left. After 6 hours of surgery on Thursday, the last one was closed. A Catholic nurse put a green scapular and rosary on Atlas’ gurney. All the lines and tubes have been removed though he will be in the hospital 3 weeks. The second baby was delivered Saturday at 1815. It was a rough delivery for the mom. A dry birth, no effacement or dilation, so pitocin and an epidural was used. After 36 hours of labor at 3 centimeters Avery Rae was delivered by C-section. She is a beautiful little girl. mom is tired but doing well. Prayer is efficacious. God is so good.
“But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father is working until now, and I am working'”. John 5: 17
God created all and keeps us all in existence from one instant to the next. Saints in heaven work with God and do God’s will.
In Justice all souls belong to “their Creator”
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