I would be happy to contribute to a fund for their travel expenses.
Burn of the Day
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
I keep going back and forth on this. Yes, Gaza is home for that particular group of people, but I also can’t help but draw the conclusion that the Catholics there are also being used as human shields and sacrificial lambs for those who just want to take a dump on Israel. Am I wrong to read it that way?
Josh you are correct. I’m seeing pictures of a destroyed building (with cleared away rubble) when they talk Bout the three killed Christians. But then I see slight damage to the facade and video of Mass yesterday being held in its completely undamaged church interior. Who is doing the “poor Christian victims” routine in Gaza but have no concern any where else in the world where Catholics are being slaughtered?
This is all about Pharisaical sanctimonious self-righteousness. It is not about saving the lives of Christians caught in a war between the Israelis and Muslim terrorists. Cardinal Pizzaballa may feel smugly pious in opposing Israel, but he’s still on the wrong side. And his smug piety will get more Christians killed. Gaza was Philistine around 1000 BC when Kings Saul then David finally brought them to heel. Now the Palstinians (just a Latinization for Philistine) must likewise be brought to heel. They continue to vote for Hamas-supporting politicians, so what choice is there? But Pizzaballa can’t (or won’t) understand that.
People: “But, this is our home … we’ve lived here for centuries!”
Jesus: “When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”
~ Matthew 10:23
… I remember a time when we Christians knew where our home truly was.
Support for the modern state of Israel and their project of displacing the native population, Moslems and Christians, from their homes is misplaced piety.
Zionism, especially the Scofield Bible version of “Christian Zionism,” is not compatible with the Catholic faith.
Zionism, especially the Scofield Bible version of “Christian Zionism,” is not compatible with the Catholic faith.
Ridiculous. The Jews, especially after the Holocaust, are as entitled to a homeland as any other people on earth. Complaints against Israel on behalf of the Arabs, the arch imperialists of all time, are a bad joke.
Zionism is more than that.
It is the false belief that the modern state of Israel, not the Church, is the “People of God,” who have the God given right to remove other people from the Holy Land, in order to establish an earthly Kingdom of God.
This is the bad theology that explicitly underlies most of the “Christian Zionist” support for the modern state of Israel, no matter what atrocities they commit.
Ted Cruz is only the latest example of someone who stated this belief explicitly. Many televangelists, like John Hagee, have been preaching this message for decades.
Meanwhile, Orthodox Jews continue to spit on priests in Jerusalem. And Jewish “settlers” continue to build on Palestinian land. And AIPAC continues to own our politicians.
Zionism is more than that.
Among the Jews who created Israel it was almost entirely a secular movement. Most of them were nonpracticing Jews. Most of the Orthodox were suspicious of the movement to put it mildly. The Jews, some of the Haredi ultra Orthodox, who spit on Christians who enter their neighborhoods, are a small minority, highly unpopular in Israel. They also spit on nonpracticing Jews and anyone who do not follow their dress code and their rules of behavior. They are often arrested for such assaults.
I support Israel out of simple fairness to the most persecuted people in the world.
“Support for the modern state of Israel and their project of displacing the native population, Moslems and Christians, from their homes is misplaced piety.”
“It is the false belief that the modern state of Israel, not the Church, is the “People of God,””
The first statement assumes the second to be true … My experience is that most supporters of Israel do so for much different reasons that you give. They range from National security concerns to basic fairness to rights of conquest.
The reasons typically given by the “river to the sea” people for supporting the elimination of the state of Israel are never cogent, and rarely even lucid … and sometimes even involve space lasers.
I agree with Lepanto that the Church is the New Israel. But God still loves the Old Israel and Romans 11 says that ALL Israel will be saved. God still loves the Jews depite their thickheadedness in not accepting His Son. Now get this, Mr. Lepanto: there are 100+ million testosterone crazed Musloids surrounding a nation-state of 7 million Jews. The ancestors of those Jews gave us our Old Testament. What have the Musloids given us? Well, think on that pseudonym which you have chosen for yourself, Lepanto, then answer the question. It is time to eradicate Islam as a demonic ideology from the face of the Earth and let the Jews live in peace in their homeland. I support Israel: the New Israel the Church and the nation-state of Israel which is admittedly a different thing. I do NOT support Islam. Romans 11. Read it.
Is this the same chap who appropriated the handle of Thaddeus Kozinski of Wyoming Catholic College? Used t see him here, there, and the next place.
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About 15% of the Levantine Arab population is located on the West Bank or in Gaza. They’ve been offered their own state on three separate occasions and spurned the offer each time. Israel agreed in 1994 to allow an authority run by local Arab bosses to take possession of Gaza and the last of the Jewish presence there evacuated in 2005. You can see what the Arab bosses did with the opportunity they had.
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The settlers are in the segment of the West Bank called ‘Area C’. The boundaries of Area C were fixed in 1998. About 80% of the Jewish settlers live in settlements founded prior to 1987. Another 15% live in Modin Illit, which is smack on the 1949 armistice line. About 5% live in settlements founded after 1995. Again, the offer made in 2000 and that made in 2008 included the evacuation of the settlements. If they wanted the settlements gone, they could have had that. They did not want that. The objection of the Arab bosses on the West Bank and Gaza is not that there are Jews in Area C, but that there are Jews in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and Haifa and those Jews have built a prosperous state over the last four generations.
About 10% of the Arab population on the West Bank lives in Area C, btw.
“I support Israel out of simple fairness to the most persecuted people in the world.”
Yup 100%.
So, I grew up hearing sentiments just like “the Palestinians [or Afghanis, Iraqis, Iranians, etc.] must be brought to heel” and that we should unequivocally
“support Israel out of simple fairness to the most persecuted people in the world.” Some ten years ago I started embracing the Traditionalist Catholic perspective on all things, and that has led me to questioning positions like these.
These are rhetorical questions–would St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, defend any or all of the Western military activities of the last 100 years in the Middle East as truly just? Would St. Thomas Aquinas et al. describe any non-Christian self-identifying group of people as having a right to politically control a particular place?
Also, I have often heard that Christians are the most persecuted people in the world, never before today has it been suggested that ethnic/practicing Jews were!
suggested that ethnic/practicing Jews were!
Missed that whole Holocaust thing did you?
“These are rhetorical questions–would St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, defend any or all of the Western military activities of the last 100 years in the Middle East as truly just? Would St. Thomas Aquinas et al. describe any non-Christian self-identifying group of people as having a right to politically control a particular place?”
Yep as to most of the activities and certainly as to non-Christian people having a right to set up their own governments. Such a right comes from being human. He judged non-Christian governments by the same standard he judged Christian governments. Never assume about Saint Thomas but read his complex writings.
I grew up hearing sentiments just like “the Palestinians [or Afghanis, Iraqis, Iranians, etc.] must be brought to heel”
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From whom?
The Latin Patriarchate is showing himself too much recently. Some pictures remind me of politicians in campaign. I do not like that. Sorry. “Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing”.
Ever since Mohammed went from Mecca to Medina in AD 622, Islam has been an ideology of bloodshed and murder. NOT Judaism, however wrong the Jews are for rejection of their Messiah. Why do so-called traditionalist Catholics hate Jews and favor Muslims, knowing the history of Muslim persecution of Christians and their repeated invasions of Europe and their conquest of Constantinople that lasts to this day? Israel has made mistakes in its war against Hamas in Gaza (a war started by Muslims on October 7, 2023), and sadly Christians have become collateral damage. But every Christian or Jew hit by a Muslim bullet, bomb, or knife is a direct hit, not collateral damage.
I am so glad someone gave my comment above a negative vote. Whoever you are, you’re the new Nazis. I’m sorry for being outraged, but an island of 7 million Jews surrounded by an ocean of 100 million Muslims doesn’t seem far to me.
How easily some commentators leap to the conclusion that criticism of the modern secular state of Israel, or of Zionism in general, means “hatred” of Jews and a blanket approval of all Islam.
While many ethnic Jews at the start of the Zionist movement, then as now, were secular and indeed atheistic, like Theodore Herzl, others, like the influential Rothschild family, were not, at least at that point in history.
The number of “Christian Zionists” dwarfs the number of Jews in the world. While many others claim more secular reasons for supporting Zionism in the Holy Land, they may be turning a blind eye to the widespread influence of the Zionist theology underlying the grassroots support for Israel in the United States. Many politicians are totally convinced by it, and others pander to it.
Cyrus Scofield, with the financial support of the prominent Zionist lawyer, Samuel Untermyer, published his reference Bible in 1909. Developing the peculiar deas of John Nelson Darby, Scofield’s commentary has been promoted by many famous Protestant preachers, books and movies, like Left Behind.
Unfortunately, it seems, a lot of Catholics are buying into it, too. Or they minimize its influence on others, including Congress and US policy makers.
There are theological reasons to oppose Zionism. But the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza can be criticized on principles of justice and respect for human rights.
But the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza can be criticized on principles of justice and respect for human rights.
Usually by people who couldn’t care less that the Palestinians in Israel have more rights than any other population in the Islamic world. This is all about Jews and the utter mindless hatred that many people, too many of them Catholic, have for Jews.
The number of “Christian Zionists” dwarfs the number of Jews in the world.
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A. Show your work
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B. So bloody what?
But the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza can be criticized on principles of justice and respect for human rights.
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No, it cannot. The political bosses of the Arab population have been offered different arrangements umpteen times – in 1947, 1972, 1978, 2000, 2005, and 2008. They were specifically offered a sovereign state on three of those occasions. They rejected the offers. The situation they have is the situation they chose. The situation they have is that Israel makes ad hoc decisions to promote its own security, keeps the Arabs at bay as much as possible, and is hands-off about the political dynamic among the Arabs. If they want something better, they’ll have to bargain for it in good faith and doing that recognizes that other people have core interests that have to be respected in a final settlement. For over a century now, the Arab bosses have been willing to take that course of action.
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Unfortunately, it seems, a lot of Catholics are buying into it, too. Or they minimize its influence on others, including Congress and US policy makers.
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They haven’t done anything of the kind. They have the rather banal opinion that the Arabs ought to make better choices, tend to their own garden, and stop blowing stuff up.
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How easily some commentators leap to the conclusion that criticism of the modern secular state of Israel, or of Zionism in general, means “hatred” of Jews and a blanket approval of all Islam.
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They’ve spotted you as a poseur, which is inconvenient to you. Suck it up.
Some of them can’t get out. That’s why they are sheltering in the Church compound. Others don’t want to leave. It’s their homes and lives. They want it to stop.
Why is Israel not protecting the Christians?
https://catholicweekly.com.au/gaza-christians-families-separated-by-the-war/
Israel has currently been heavy handed and indiscriminate in their attacks. And it’s deliberate. The Christians are dwindling to the point of extinction. They need food ans international protection.
I support Israel in obliterating Hamas. But I don’t support what they are doing to the Christians. A Israeli sniper killed and mother and child inside the Church. This is saying this is deliberate attack on Christian’s to force them to leave.
Some of them can’t get out
Have they tried? I am certain that if they asked the Israelis, the IDF would be happy to remove them to the West Bank. The US I am sure would be happy to arrange transportation out of the Middle East for the Christians. Voluntarily wishing to stay in the hell hole of Gaza is either political in support of Hamas, or insane.
To them it’s not a hell hole. It’s their homes and lives being destroyed. Their Church, their schools, their communities. They’d be stretching less than 1000 of them.
I have family who lived through decades of war in Beirut. People don’t just leave. They stay, endure, pick up and rebuild. And do that cycle multiple times. This is the birthplace of Our Lord. We shouldn’t be forced to leave.
Killing people inside a Church shouldn’t be happening. The Christians have already dwindled in numbers because of Hamas, are they now going to be wiped out as a people by the Israelis.
Is Israel planning on obliterating everything and everyone to the ground? Or do they have a military strategy of ending this for the benefit of the righteous…
To them it’s not a hell hole.
Then they are delusional. Even before the war it was a hell hole. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, dismantling all 21 settlements there. Since then Hamas has wage unremitting war against Israel, and that war will continue if Israel is foolish enough to stop fighting in Gaza. Any one with a lick of common sense would get out while the getting is good.
Israel has currently been heavy handed and indiscriminate in their attacks.
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The implication of that is that you can school Israel on how to proceed in a more deft and effective fashion or you can point to someone who can. You do realize that is not very plausible?
To them it’s not a hell hole. It’s their homes and lives being destroyed.
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The trouble they are facing is a function of the course of action their bosses settled on decades ago. If you want to live a quiet life, don’t attack the country next door who can stomp you flat. If you want the war to end, stop making absurd demands and adhere to the terms of the ‘cease fire’ agreement you sign. Hamas won’t do that. These are the consequences. This is not that obscure.
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Here’s Gaza’s problem: it’s filled with the dregs of the Arab world. People in the Arab world with constructive objects, skills, entrepreneurship, &c. live elsewhere. Both the West Bank and Gaza have seen for decades a massive inflow of foreign aid (much of it via the odious UNRWA) and private remittances, yet they’re the most unproductive population in the Near East / North Africa / Central Asia (the Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, and what’s left of Syria excepted). Egypt’s per capita product (PPP) is 3x that of the West Bank and Gaza. There’s a less in their somewhere.
Israel sees Gaza Christians as Arabs first and Christians second. That’s disappointing as Christians in the Holy Land do not treat Jews with the same contempt. The Church community abided by Israelis strict monitoring of them in what they say and do inside and around Church. But come December last year, that was all forgotten.
They are not delusional for staying. They are protecting 1600 years of Christian existence in Gaza.
It wasn’t a hell hole before the war. It had a strong community with deep Faith and active support of each other and everyone in their community. They have active Priests and nuns. Representation from the Vatican. Parts of the US with all their amenities and comforts are Godless Hell-holes in comparison. As are entire cities in my country. They need support and protection. We bemoan the lack of Christians in Europe and at the same time are saying for ME Christians to leave because they will be wiped out by military force…
Here is an account of how Israel, since December, has attacked the once safe haven of The Holy Family Church. And they couldn’t even attain proper assistance to get the dead and wounded elderly Christians that Israel killed to a hospital in Egypt. And by the time they had access to the local hospital they had to be treated in a hospital that was half shelled and understaffed. When is Israel going to end this? But more importantly, why are they attacking Christians. Christians are not assisting Hamas. Christians are Israel’s allies. Why do they not protect them?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-dilemma-of-gazas-christians#:~:text=The%20church%20is%20situated%20in,people%2C%20most%20of%20them%20Christian.
t wasn’t a hell hole before the war.
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You don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s been an impoverished dump since 1948. If it has been populated with Hong Kong Chinese, it might be a prosperous locale. It did in 2022 have a higher standard of living than Haiti. Whoop de do.
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The ‘war’ wasn’t a weather event. They started it for their own stupid and malicious reasons and then kept demanding a cease fire while setting absurd minimum conditions.
“They are protecting 1600 years of Christian existence in Gaza.”
No. Sorry. When your home is, and for decades has been, under the complete authoritarian control of an armed terrorist group whose avowed missions are (1) to exterminate every Jew, and (2) to force every other person on Earth to become Muslim or die, and you have no arms or any other means of resistance, you are not protecting anything by staying put. You are merely ensuring that your blood enemies have every opportunity to use your presence for their own evil ends. This is folly.
“They started it for their own stupid and malicious reasons and then kept demanding a cease fire while setting absurd minimum conditions.”
How mature of you. I would expect someone like you to know the difference who “they” were. “They” who started it were Hamas. “They” were not Christian Gazans.
The Church compound was a known protected spot for months and Israel knew to leave it alone. Then without warning they attacked it and those inside. With full-knowledge they had no affiliation with Hamas. The IDF report of the Church attack inside the compound is not even conclusive because the IDF they can’t get their story together. Very easy- Ask the nun who saw two women being shot infront of her eyes. The Israel Military who was able to take drones to an underground tunnel, locate a known Hamas leader and shoot him bulls-eye between the eyes. The same Israel Military who co-ordinated the Pager attack. That same military couldn’t tell the difference between an enemy and an innocent and who “they” were going after. Yeah ok.
ME Christian’s are more educated and civil than Haitians. They live in community centred around Christ. What a stupid comparison.
“They” who started it were Hamas. “They” were not Christian Gazans.
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Life is lived socially and the injuries inflicted by warfare are collective punishments. Military operations are more surgical than they used to be, but they cannot be ordered to injure only the responsible parties in any society.
Ok Art