“Laws are like sausages. It is best not to see them being made.”
Otto von Bismark
Otto, the same thing goes in spades for jury verdicts. One of the greatest areas of hokum in American life are the paeans of praise routinely showered upon juries. Now, I think it is important that the jury option be preserved, because judges are simply arms of the state when we get right down to it, but after 41 years at the bar I am under no illusions about juries. Here we have citizens randomly drafted to serve on jury pools. We expect them to carefully listen and observe strange proceedings filled with jargon they are completely unfamiliar with. At the end they are given Jury Instructions, that sometimes appear confusing to the attorneys who draw them up. They then take these back to the jury room, talk among themselves and reach a verdict. It does not surprise me that the system described works poorly; it surprises me that it works at all.
In the case of E. Jean Carroll v. Donald Trump, the jury found that Carroll had failed to prove that Trump had raped her. They then found that Trump defamed her by denying that he raped Carroll and that Trump sexually abused her. Carroll did not say that Trump sexually abused her, she said that Trump raped her. For this they awarded Carroll five million dollars. How to explain this inexplicable verdict reached in three hours. Let us go into the jury room.
“Who thinks Carroll is a nut?” All hands go up.
“Who really hates Trump?” All hands go up.
“Let’s look at the verdict forms. Did he rape her?” No hands go up.
“Did he sexually abuse her?” No hands go up. One of the women on the panel: “Well he did say some insulting things about her. Reminds me of my ex! That is abuse!” All hands go up, some reluctantly.
“Did he defame her?” Same woman. “He said she was too ugly to rape. That is pretty insulting.” All hands go up.
“How much in damages?” Debate goes on for a while. One of the men: “Are we going to sit here forever? I’ve got a game to see! Call it five million and let’s get out of here. Nice round sum and pocket change for Trump!” All hands go up.
And another triumph for justice is born.
Can it really be called a botch if the “botch” is intentional?
Usually no, but in a jury context they are supposed to make their rulings according to the law, although in my experience that is more a hope than a reality.
Always an engineer, never a juror. Nor any engineer I know has ever been chosen for a jury. Have to think we’re not wanted. Of course “think” must be why we’re rejected.
In my career, I have observed that, with very rare exceptions, judges are political animals. And, federal court judges are hardly better, particularly when the case is political in nature. As a consequence, I was taught that it was malpractice to waive a jury demand when one was available. Ultimately, I have found that juries are no better or worse than than the pool of voters from which they are drawn. Live in a conservative area, and you are likely to get a more common sense jury. Live in a heavy blue area, and you will likely get a political outcome as a verdict. In fact, every jury consultant I’ve ever heard tries to dress it up in order to sell something, but their advice always comes down to these political differences playing out in society.
IMO, juries should make binary decisions. Fixing damages should be the work of a panel of judge and two assessors. The judge gets one vote. The assessors are drawn at random from rolls of registered professionals in other fields (generally math-oriented fields).
Yes, they hate Trump. But the plaintiff attorneys played his deposition for the jury, and he did himself no favors. Note that they did not go with the rape angle, but instead found it more likely than not that he had committed “sexual battery.”
He had a chance in his deposition to walk back or contextualize the infamous recorded “grab them by the” comment and by all accounts botched it. Normal men don’t respond to rape allegations with “She’s not my type.”
But the GOP wants to spend the next 18 months defending gaffes old and new just to own the libs, that’s their prerogative. I myself eagerly look forward to the Donald continuing to emphasize why good Republicans must rally to corporations like Disney and Anheuser-Busch.
Trump and other Republicans subject to this lawfare have my sympathies. In the political sphere, I do wish he’d pass the baton. He’s of an age where he should be enjoying the company of family and friends to the maximum extent possible. (I’ll say the same of Mitt Romney, while we’re at it).
Normal men don’t respond to rape allegations with “She’s not my type.”
Trump has led far from a normal life. The most fanciful part of Ms. Carroll’s work of fiction was that Trump was by himself and just happened to run into her. Long before he was President Trump always had an entourage with him, and he is usually surrounded by security. I assume Trump will appeal and the Circuit decision should make for interesting reading.
The most fanciful part of Ms. Carroll’s work of fiction was that Trump was by himself
I generally agree with you. I have read commentary by people who’ve run into Mitt Romney and Pete Wilson all by themselves in waiting rooms and retail establishments (in Romney’s case, while he was in office). Not everyone in elite circles has an entourage.
Something to remember when watching these affairs is that the leftists pursuing them do not care at all about the merit of the arguments, only that they hit Trump. The slew of attacks from every angle make clear. So YOU might think that one particular attack has more merit, but the people behind the attacks don’t care. The only relevance that the merits have are to some jury members, and as this case shows all that will prevent them from doing is making the most blatantly false verdicts (such as saying that a rape occurred when it can’t be proven that the two involved even met each other.)
Why this matters is that there is no doubt that they will use the same playbook they are currently using on Trump on any significant opponent. The only advantage that other candidates have is that the media hasn’t properly set up the demonization campaign against them yet, so juries might actually look at cases based on the facts (though in jurisdictions like New York or Washington DC lacking a “D” after your name is probably enough to prevent that.)
The Statute of Limitations is where?
Not everyone in elite circles has an entourage.
Quite right Art, but Trump normally does. Trump is always about the Trump brand. If he could get away with it, I think Trump would have a brass band following him.
https://www.steynonline.com/11661/death-by-entourage
This is why whenever somebody complains about jury duty or brags about how they got out of serving, I always verbally disagree. Every time. I point out that if everyone clever enough to avoid jury duty does avoid jury duty, you will continue to get the kind of jury you do not want judging you.
NB: I am NOT talking about people who beg out for legit life circumstances, so no need to go down that particular rabbit hole…
Rudolph, “The only advantage that other candidates have is that the media hasn’t properly set up the demonization campaign against them yet”.
Not true. Clarence Thomas and Robert Bork set the example of what they do to people. Every candidate to the SC gets the treatment. No preparation is needed nor do they need to encourage attacks. The minions just do it instinctively. They are Legion.
Mark Steyn’s death-by-entourage about a hip hop star’s demise, a true story, reminds of the crazy characters in Cleese’s Hold The Sunset or a Python skit
In E. Carroll’s interview with Anderson Cooper she couldn’t remember the year of the rape. I would imagine a rape victim would never forget that. At the end of the interview she talked of rape being sexy and fantasy. At the break to Cooper leaning in to him she said, “You are fascinating to speak to.” Flirty
“At the break to Cooper leaning in to him she said, “You are fascinating to speak to.” Flirty”
Indeed. I guess she doesn’t know he’s not her type, nor vice versa. I bet Andy got an earful when he got home after that was broadcast. 😉
I bet Andy got an earful when he got home after that was broadcast.
His butt buddy was evidently given the gate several years ago, but they have this deal with with a crooked nexus of agencies, brood sows, social workers, and family court judges wherein lifestyle accessories are generated for them, which they pretend are their children.