Go here to read the rest. The cops should have been on the scene before the lunatic entered the school, and every classroom door should have been shut and locked. The lethal failures here are numerous and appalling by the school and by the cops. This debacle is a text book example of how not to deal with an active shooter situation in a school.
Oh my goodness that poor family. Prayers prayers prayers.
Heads should roll? I think not. Unless it’d be the heads of aggressive journalists or general hotheads. We seem to have a terrible time with recognizing that active shooter situations tend to be anything EXCEPT predictable or straightforward.
For what all I’ve heard, two officers sought to contain the assailant, only to be shot and wounded themselves. It’s very difficult to handle a dangerous situation if you don’t know the extent of the threat.
Regarding the woman who was arrested: For all they knew, she could have become death number 17.
It’s very difficult to handle a dangerous situation if you don’t know the extent of the threat.
He was killing little kids; that is all they needed to know. Anyone who is so concerned about his own skin to stand by and do nothing as kids are being killed has no business being a cop. I hope they are all sued into oblivion.
https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2022/05/26/dps-spokesman-police-couldve-been-shot-and-decided-to-contain-the-gunman-with-his-victims-n472342
I think we can suspend judgment for a time. The granular details take a while to emerge. I’d rely on the British press and local media.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10855093/Furious-father-Texas-school-shooting-victim-slams-police-failing-stop-gunman-HOUR.html
This horrific, pathetic episode is one more link in the chain of institutional incompetence in this country. The war on men, the war on faith, the war on children have all had an effect. We’re seeing it in real time. Yes, heads should roll. The shooter is outside for 12 minutes and the school is not locked up? The cops then stand around intimidating parents for 40 minutes rather than risk eliminating the shooter who is inside shooting kids? What’s coming out about this, and I’ve seen some of it with my own eyes from video, is enough to make one lose faith in the future of this country. I’m disgusted.
The blame can be placed squarely on the politicians that decided what police procedures should be in varied situations. The cops did as they were trained once it became a hostage situation. Yes, it sucks hard, and with more recent events departments should have changed their procedures to focus on the active shooter training rather than assuming any hostages taken would be safe while they talked it out, but that goes back to their trained SOPs.
Blame can also be placed on school administrators and politicians that refuse to even allow teachers to carry firearms. I’m not saying it needs to be mandated, but the mere idea that teachers on scene might have a firearm would be a larger deterrent than one assigned school security guard (that everyone knows the location of).
As for not locking down the classrooms, with gunfire going on outside the principal or other school staff should have been the ones calling over the intercom, or running around inside, to get that done. There should have been no need for the police to run around and tell people to do that while they were attempting to deal with the threat.
Heads should roll, yes. The heads of the local politicians that decided on police procedures, or neglected to update them, and the various school unions or individuals that refused to allow to give teachers/staff the option to be armed themselves.
Also, the above is just off the top of my head without even going into my experiences as a Force Protection NCO and security manager for the largest single squadron in the country, for four years.
The cops did as they were trained once it became a hostage situation.
It is my understanding that the procedure taught currently is to engage a school shooter immediately with whatever force is available. Apparently the cops walked this school in February as part of their training to deal with school shooters.
The politicians who are in charge are rarely not at least partly responsible when something disastrous like this occurs.
As best we can tell, they did– which is how the responders got shot.
Apparently the cops walked this school in February as part of their training to deal with school shooters.
Which cops? School security? Town cops? A regional training exercise? The last one is not inconceivable, too, since apparently some of the information which was missing from some other news stories, the school has doors designed to keep out attackers unless they’ve got breaching equipment. If they’d done a big anti-attack upgrade, you’d reasonably have representatives from anybody and their brother.
Or you might have the, what, four school security guys that cover the nine schools walk through the new stuff to try to familiarize.
If the school was relatively newly upgraded, that would explain why the school screwed up lock-down so badly. (Although lunch time in grade school is probably one of the worst possible points for this to happen, as well.)
The breaching equipment to get through a properly designed door they presumably called for (remember the complain about radioing out for backup and a trained team?) and sent folks to get the key to open the classroom.
In addition to removing potential hostages from the area, and keeping potential allies of the shooter from joining him, and practicing information control because somebody is live-streaming the stuff and you don’t want to hand that to known shooter.
Wasn’t it back in the 90s that the news stopped doing live-feeds of crisis situations exactly BECAUSE goblins were watching the news to get more information?
Aren’t all schools locked? I have never been in my granddaughter’s school because it is locked and no one unannounced gets in. I know it was a ‘small, safe’ town but… Also, as Ann notes: How did a totally impoverished drop-out of ambiguous sexuality who couldn’t hold a job as mop boy at Wendy’s buy $5000 worth of rifles and holographic sights? Could it be that these demonic psychopaths are searched out and set loose????
I haven’t said much about this event because it’s so horrifying that yet again a deranged maniac murders innocent young school children, Maybe God allows this as our punishment because we have so willy-nilly murdered pre-born children in the womb.
(1) But whatever the case may be, there should be detailed active shooter procedures and training for all police departments everywhere. At nuclear power plants we have active shooter, insider threat and other adversary drills once a calendar quarter, usually with the FBI or the military as the stand-in adversary. Of course, the difference is that we have an on-sight security force with automatic weapons per 10 CFR 73.55. Nevertheless, are children any less important? And why can’t local police undergo quarterly active shooter drills?
(2) Also – and this may not be popular with a lot of readership here – standardized psychological tests should be administered for would-be gun owners. Yes, that won’t stop crazed bombers, knife-wielders, strangulators and other criminals. But it may do something to help prevent events like this. I am all in favor of the 2nd Amendment, but insane people should not be allowed to have guns. And they should get the pyschological help they need before they commit an act of violence. Feeling sorry for the criminal because of a terrible childhood after the deed is done is too late.
(3) Third, anyone caught as an active shooter (who survives the event) should be tried by a jury of his peers and on conviction, get the death penalty per Genesis 9:6. I say hang him for anyone hanged is a curse unto God (Deuteronomy 21:33).
The truth begins to come out:
https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2022/05/27/teacher-propped-open-a-back-door-to-the-school-moments-before-the-shooter-arrived-n472465
A very botched operation by the cops.
Mr. McClarey, methinks I’m seeing people come very close to defamation of character.
Overall, reports indicate chaos, not cowardice. Makes sense. Who ever expects that some older kid will go on a rampage?? Knowing that children are involved makes us eager to act. It doesn’t tell us what’s going on. In such a situation, we might know that shots have been fired, we may not know how many assailants we face nor how they’re armed. If we simply charge in, we may cause more casualties, either from the gunman retaliating against kids or teachers, …or by crossfire.
It’s essentially impossible to effectively prepare for this. If we develop four likely ways to defend a building, .. an actual assailant may choose a FIFTH way to attack, one that nobody dreamed could happen.
Merely firing someone because 16 kids and teachers died won’t solve any problem. I suggest we allow the folks there to sort through what happened, how, why. Determine what weak points existed that contributed to the the event. THEN we can think about rolling heads, assuming we find evidence that someone had cause to act differently.
Mr. McClarey, methinks I’m seeing people come very close to defamation of character.
You’d be wrong in that John, especially since truth is an absolute defense.
Overall, reports indicate chaos, not cowardice.
Plenty of chaos and plenty of cowardice.
In such a situation, we might know that shots have been fired, we may not know how many assailants we face nor how they’re armed. If we simply charge in, we may cause more casualties, either from the gunman retaliating against kids or teachers, …or by crossfire.
Complete BS John. They knew he was in the classroom and they knew he was murdering kids. It doesn’t get worse than that.
“It’s essentially impossible to effectively prepare for this.”
Cops are trained now to immediately engage a school shooter. The coward cops in this case disobeyed both their training and common humanity.
Lucius, I suspect your thoughts well intended, yet I see real problems:
1. Even once a quarter drills…only prepare you to an extent. If two people disagree about the nature of a crisis, they create a critical delay. Then again, we can either allow children a “regular” childhood with a school with reasonable security, …or we can keep them in a de facto prison, for fear of disaster. Did we not learn from covid that lockdowns do not solve every problem?
2. Psych profiles might actually be worse than background checks. Background checks won’t tell you a person’s intentions, psych profiles will give you a myriad of possible actions. Neither stands much chance to prevent firearm misuse.
3. I have not heard of any active shooters that survived. …and Texas already has the death penalty. So do many others. These have not prevented active shooters.
…I’m not arguing against the death penalty in this case, rather pointing out how a possible death afterward has not proven a deterrent.
Which cops?
The Keystone local Kops who stood by and did zilch while kids were being murdered. They disobeyed the common training of cops today in regard to school shootings which is to immediately engage the school shooter. Oh, and I love the fact that until the Border Patrol agents tried to break open the door and failed, none of the Fearless Fosdicks on the scene thought to ask the school administration for the key to the classroom. Of course since they were doing zilch to stop what the murderer was doing in the classroom, until someone appeared with guts they really didn’t need the key. Nothing will transform this sow’s ear of an operation into a silk purse.
John F, your endorsement of shameless cowardice—masked as prudence, of course—is nauseating. Go join the Uvalde police force. You’ll fit right in.
Training to handle a school shooter already inherently makes assumptions. It only takes one gunman to act differently to create a huge problem.
Jeremiah, I have challenged people to allow the appropriate authorities to sort out what they need to sort out. If they determine that someone acted in a cowardly manner, I expect they’ll respond appropriately.
@Donald, I’m going to guess you missed the part where all of the doors were upgraded to prevent entry except by breaching tools. Given the size of the town it’s likely they didn’t have any breaching tools, with the possible exception of the SWAT group, which would barely even be getting on scene in 40 minutes.
Also, where in a teacher propping open a door does it become the fault of the cops? 6 minutes between when it was propped open and the suspect entered, all that time he was firing or hidden. And since the door wasn’t supposed to be open in the first place, why would the cops assume it was (while getting shot at)?
Anyone that has received any actual training to DETER/STOP active shooter or terrorist attacks knows that you can make plan upon plan upon plan, but the good guys have to get everything right every time. The bad guys only have to get things right once. If you don’t have that training, you need to keep your mouth shut because you don’t have a clue. If anyone should be getting in trouble over this, it is the teacher that propped the door open. And no, active shooter training that is supposed to teach civilians how to hunker down or deal with an active shooter in their area is not even close to the same thing.
The Monday Morning Quarterbacking needs to stop until all information is available. Then we can start worrying about who needs to be charged for negligence, etc. Too many have forgotten the idea of “innocent until proven guilty” with all of the media circuses that have been run over the last several years. In fact, given the timeline I’d be investigating the teacher that propped open the door as a possible accomplice.
And Donald, it still is not common training of cops today in regard to school/active shooters. Most departments, particularly smaller ones, are still training to treat gunman incidents as hostage situations.
@Donald, I’m going to guess you missed the part where all of the doors were upgraded to prevent entry except by breaching tools. Given the size of the town it’s likely they didn’t have any breaching tools, with the possible exception of the SWAT group, which would barely even be getting on scene in 40 minutes.
I’m guessing you missed the part where the cops didn’t even ask the school administration for the key unil the Border Patrol Agents tried and failed to break down the door.
Also, where in a teacher propping open a door does it become the fault of the cops?
The murderer was outside the school firing shots for 12 minutes; where were the cops? Oh, one of them did drive right by the murderer who hid behind a car. Why didn’t the cops immediately get the key to the classroom from the administration. Good attempt to defend the cops by throwing this on the shoulders of a slaughtered teacher.
but the good guys have to get everything right every time.
The cops in this case did everything wrong, and mostly did nothing while kids were being killed.
The Monday Morning Quarterbacking needs to stop until all information is available.
The cops need to be sued into oblivion. That is the only thing they will pay attention to, at least on that police force.
And Donald, it still is not common training of cops today in regard to school/active shooters.
You are completely wrong on that. The cops changed this from an active shooting situation to a barricaded shooter situation to excuse their doing nothing while they knew that kids and teachers were being killed in the classroom. Completely despicable.
By the way, they had [what?] 20,000 national guard troops and miles of barbed wire protecting Nanny P. and Chuckle Schumer for six months.
There are many lessons to learn.
All planning goes awry when the bullets fly.
I’m not about to question another man’s courage.
Only one thing is certain, if you think [relatively] unlimited government and [absolute] police power will save you, you are sorely mistaken.
“The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men gang aft agley,”
My heart is heavy.
“For the sake if His is sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. “
Yes, totally an attempt to defend the cops by pointing out the fact that the door was propped open when it should not have been. 12 minutes while dealing with the suspect? I think you have your math skills off by a bit. The report you linked gives 6 minutes between when the door was propped, and the suspect entered the building. He didn’t crash his vehicle until a minute later. That leaves 5 minutes from when the murderer arrived on scene to when he entered the building, not 12.
They admitted to making a mistake thinking it was a barricaded subject vs an active shooter. I can understand why they would think so, given the report says that the murderer fired “at least 100 rounds”. That would leave most people to believe anyone in the area with him was likely dead. But you want to sue them into oblivion? You think that’ll get people to pay attention? You don’t think every one of those officers doesn’t feel like shit for not correctly handling the situation? You think they’re not already going to be shamed like crazy in that community? How will suing them into oblivion help anything? All you are advocating for is for even less people to be willing to do that job, because no matter what they do people will only be out for vengeance and be judging them for not making the same decision that other people think they would make based on information that wasn’t all available during the event in question. One guy on scene assumed leadership and made a decision, every other guy followed his instructions. I believe the article you linked said it was the Uvalde police chief. As for the question at the end on why nobody pointed out he was doing the wrong thing, because you don’t do that during an active event.
As for the officer that drove by the subject that was “hunkered down behind a vehicle” on his way to the building… are you seriously trying to blame him for missing the guy? Expecting a tad too much omniscience there, aren’t you?
Please provide a link that shows the teacher that propped open the door is also the one killed, btw. I haven’t seen any direct evidence of that on the articles I’ve read, but I can’t say I have read every article out there either. And in the end, it doesn’t even matter if that was the same teacher, that individual is the one that left open the door used by the gunman and is thus just as responsible for what happened as the cops.
The man in charge made the wrong decision treating it as a barricaded suspect, but that also means the other officers there were using that information to make their own decisions. The chief will most likely be relieved of command, if he hasn’t been already. Getting angry and demanding revenge against the other officers for following orders based on incorrect information they were given is lashing out with emotions and ignoring the facts.
You want to solve these school shooting problems? Charge everyone that ignores policy and procedure (such as propping open a door meant to remain locked except during emergencies). Allow willing teachers to carry and receive training for dealing with these situations. Get the media onboard (hahahahahaha) to stop reporting on anything not released by the police until after an investigation is completed. Quit judging people that were on scene and dealing with the situation until after said investigation.
What you are advocating for will only ensure we have even less qualified officers available to deal with criminals, and that will get you even more crime.
Re: Psych profiles
Do we really want to give the government the power to give us all psych profiles and decide what we can and can’t do based on the assessment by their “experts”?
@Cag, they’ve already tried to use any mental health prescriptions given to VA recipients as a reason to take away their ability to handle guns or their own money. That should be all anyone needs to know as to how bad of an idea it’d be.
You are completely wrong on that. The cops changed this from an active shooting situation to a barricaded shooter situation to excuse their doing nothing while they knew that kids and teachers were being killed in the classroom. Completely despicable.
Telepathy and Empathic abilities now, huh? From the past and at significant distance, too. I’m impressed.
Newsmax has an article “Police Acknowledge ‘Wrong Decision,’ Delay Confronting Shooter” that contains more details.
*
https://www.newsmax.com/headline/police-shooter-texas-mistakes/2022/05/27/id/1071839/
But it wasn’t to excuse them making the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision, that they made at the time of the incident. It was not to excuse them doing nothing. Additionally, the timeline shows they entered the building two minutes after the suspect and at that point he had already fired “at least 100 rounds”. Where they screwed up was not reverting to an active shooter when they received the first 911 call, but that assumes that information was reported to the officers on scene. Whether or not they could hear the gunshots from outside of the room is also in question. If the doors were reinforced, and depending on the structure of the wall, they might not have.
By this point, you would think schools would have sealed any adjoining classroom connections though, which is how the attacker gained access to other rooms.
Yes, totally an attempt to defend the cops by pointing out the fact that the door was propped open when it should not have been.
Yep, I am glad we agree.
The report you linked gives 6 minutes between when the door was propped, and the suspect entered the building. He didn’t crash his vehicle until a minute later. That leaves 5 minutes from when the murderer arrived on scene to when he entered the building, not 12.
I believe 12 minutes is correct. it would be easier to say if the cops didn’t keep changing their story, always the tactic of liars.
“But you want to sue them into oblivion?”
And send them to prison, although I doubt that will happen. This is a great reason why the second amendment is so important since no one in their right mind will rely upon cops to protect them if this debacle is a fair sample of modern policing.
Please provide a link that shows the teacher that propped open the door is also the one killed, btw.
It was their classroom. Too bad you can’t ask them since the cops engaged in theatre failure throughout this debacle and the teachers will never be answering questions again in this Vale of Tears.
The man in charge made the wrong decision treating it as a barricaded suspect, but that also means the other officers there were using that information to make their own decisions.
The cops were receiving phone calls from the students while this was going on pleading for them to stop the killer. The cops could hear the gunshots. Any other excuses for their cowardice?
“You want to solve these school shooting problems?”
Hiring cops without yellow streaks would be a good start. Really, beyond all policy discussions, this type of behavior by law enforcement ensures a maximum body count by a murderer.
Telepathy and Empathic abilities now, huh?
The cops heard the gunshots and received phone calls from students begging them to stop the killer. Don’t try to pretend the cops didn’t know precisely what they were doing.
The news keeps getting worse for what the cops did:
https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/05/27/border-patrol-tactical-team-arrived-at-uvalde-school-shortly-after-noon-but-cops-stopped-them-from-going-in-n472511
It appears as though BP were the only ones doing anything.
Lots of excuses about process and procedure. Lots. At the end of the day- the children were trapped inside with an active gunman and the police were outside waiting for orders. That to me points at a deliberate attempt by law enforcement, with directive from above, to ensure the gunman kills as many people as possible. To create an outrage afterwards for gun control…..hmmm
Anyway, children and teachers are dead. That’s all anyone needs to understand.
The international media reports are ripping into the police officers as are the general public in the comments section. Nobody cares about the details in between or the excuses.
Donald-
the door that was propped open was the one that let the killer into the school in the first place, not the classroom door, though I do wonder why that door was not locked.
In accordance with basic school security since Columbine, they’re supposed to be set up so the exterior doors are locked from the outside– fire exits, basically.
Part of the ballistics and collecting radio chatter that they’re doing right now is to figure out if the teacher did that before or after the shooter had crashed.
If the timing on arrival of the guys with a shield is accurate, that would be when they told them about the teams that were evacuating the other children and when they found out about the need for breaching tools or the key.
It is also possible that what arrived was a portion of the team that had a shield, and they were calling the off-duty border patrol guy who was helping one of the teams of cops evacuate the school up, since he’d have the same training.
Ezabelle-
The international media reports are ripping into the police officers as are the general public in the comments section. Nobody cares about the details in between or the excuses.
And that will get more kids dead, along with first responders and people who are trying to do the right thing but are going off of false beliefs about the situation.
Remember that the first thing they were ripping into the cops for was the school resource officer not shooting the suspect when he was responding to “shots fired” near a school. Turns out that was a teacher, and the shooter hid.
The truth matters, and a falsehood doesn’t become more true because it becomes popular.
The willingness of people to be whipped into an utter frenzy with known inaccurate information is flatly scandalous, so I am bowing out of any further discussion of this matter on this site until it is not a near occasion of sin.
Who gives a rats about whose right.
You can explain the processes and procedures to the parents of the kids that were shot dead. It wasn’t my kid nor yours.
Its not about popular opinion. It’s the public reaction to the fact- the fact- that everyone stood out in the carpark including police whilst a shooter was active inside for an extended period of time. Not a hostage situation. An active shooter.
Shooting kids and teachers.
From what I know about you Foxfier, going by the interchanges in the comments section of this blog, is that if that was your kid inside that school, you wouldn’t have stood in the carpark and you wouldn’t have let anyone restrain you from entering- even at the risk of being shot dead.
There wouldn’t be such an uproar if people and police were allowed to enter that school, even if they died doing so.
I learned a bit earlier how someone had declared that the officer in charge made the wrong decision regarding active shooter vs hostage situation. I suspect law enforcement around the country will need to revalue the two kinds of matter.
Apparently at least of the few of the kids sent messages about the situation. …But they weren’t shot, else they wouldn’t have been able to send messages. If so, that would undermine the idea of an active shooter.
If that’s true, the leading officer’s decisions make more sense.
the leading officer’s decisions make more sense.
If there’s gunfire. you go in. Where kids are involved, that should be the rule. If it’s not, that needs to change
“But they weren’t shot, else they wouldn’t have been able to send messages. If so, that would undermine the idea of an active shooter.
If that’s true, the leading officer’s decisions make more sense.”
Injured people can still use cell phones. Did you mean the people calling weren’t dead, yet? This kid shot his grandma & she survived.
“From what I know about you Foxfier, going by the interchanges in the comments section of this blog, is that if that was your kid inside that school, you wouldn’t have stood in the carpark and you wouldn’t have let anyone restrain you from entering- even at the risk of being shot dead.”
From what I know about you Ezabelle, from interacting with you on this site, the very person attack on Foxfire that you have made because you cannot persuade her to allow her emotions to rule her logic, is no surprise. Generally, such out of control emotion, always leads to personal attacks against those who will not be swayed by it.
I think Art Deco has taken the best approach in urging caution.
If we going to armchair this I’ll be the most controversial person-the mother who rushed the school and removed her own two children is no hero. First, her initial actions only added more chaos to the situation (a minor offense). Second, and more egregious, she “rescued” her own children but left behind how many others? Imagine being one of the kids left in a room after this mother took her kid.
Second, and more egregious, she “rescued” her own children but left behind how many others?
A parent’s primary duty is to their own kids. Much more egregious, reportedly some of the cowardly cops were also escorting out their own kids. If I had been a parent with a kid in that school, and seen that the cops were doing bupkis, I would have moved Heaven and Earth to get my kid out of there. I would have told any cop that stood in my way that I would dedicate the remainder of my legal career to breaking them financially. If I could take out other kids, great, but my kids are my concern and my life.
Why an orderly evacuation wasn’t being done since they knew which classrooms the murderer was locked in is beyond me.
“A parent’s primary duty is to their own kids.”
Quite correct. Now picture the news stories, “Mom rescues her own kids before killer enters their classroom and executes another dozen children.” People would be screaming for her scalp too.
People would be screaming for her scalp too.
No, because she was doing her Mom job. The cops on the other hand were failing to do their Cop jpb. As a Dad, I would try to protect any kids, but my first priority is to my own.
All those criticizing that mother, if confronted by this ‘Sophie’s Choice’ of saving your own flesh and blood or someone else’s child but not both would save their own. Any parent that says they would save someone else’s child instead of their own is not being honest.
Christian Teacher- you need to read comments more carefully before you respond. My comment was a praise of her character not a knock of her character.