The usual Open Thread rules apply: be concise, be charitable and, above all, be amusing!
Open Thread
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
This is gonna sound like it belongs on a Reddit thread, so forgive me…
Just attended daily Mass with my students. The priest must have studied at a community theater seminary. Gyrating and gesticulating and voice volume going up and down. Breathless “myyyyy sissssters and broooothers” (how I loath that reversal of the traditional greeting)
I refrained from Communion, as I couldn’t be 100% sure the Eucharist was validly consecrated. Am I the bad Catholic?
There’s no obligation to receive the Blessed Sacrament more than once a year.
If a consecration is done by a valid priest using the proper words, the bread becomes Christ. I’m unsure how much variation in wording negates the validity of a consecration – a person could go mad trying to figure that out, and there’s no harm done by receiving a piece of bread. As far as I know, the Church has never really ruled on the effectiveness of particular phrasing.
Oh I know – the last part was slightly tongue in cheek, about being the Bad Catholic. But the rest was serious – I despise the theatrics more than most, to be sure.
Yeah, so, I received the usual annual letter for “Catholic Appeal” from my bishop. It listed Catholic Charities as on of the aid recipients. I tossed it, like always.
receiving physical communion is of course best, but most of my most profound communions were those where I did not take physical communion but on Faith.
“Lord.. only say the word and my soul will be healed.. “
I’ve been following the SSPX controversy. Quite the chess match so to speak; China, Germany and all other abuses taken into consideration. The SSPX has said they are loyal to Peter, but like Paul wish to bring concerns “to Peter’s face”.
Will the Vatican consider the SSPX in schism for being faithful to what the Church has always taught? Because if that’s the case, count me in.
As I tell the kids, “so long as the consecration is done properly, the goodness or lack of goodness of the priest cannot change the validity of Eucharist – thank God.”
A person isn’t schismatic *because* he’s faithful to the Church’s teaching. Well, except taxonomically. A person who separates from the Church and her teaching is a heretic, apostate, whatever. A person who separates from the Church but not her teaching is schismatic. Schism is an act of disunity, not of unbelief.
Unity?
schisma (Greek) – cleft, division, or split
One can argue whether the SSPX is in a state of schism, but the idea of schism as an act of disunity is baked into the word.
@ Josh: You are not alone in your doubts.
@ Pinky: When the last pope denigrated seeking converts to the Catholic Faith—“Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense..” (Mar., 2013)—was he in schism with the Faith?
“ 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” -Matt. 28:18-20
No. 1 – A pope can’t be in schism. 2 – A theological error wouldn’t put a person into schism. 3 – Francis didn’t denigrate seeking converts to the Catholic Faith.
@Pinky: You might want to read S. Robert Bellarmine and as well the Jesuit theologian Francisco Suárez (d. 1617) on the potentiality for a pope to lose his office by a statement of heresy, even without the formal judgment of the Church. And yes, such a statement would be schismatic as well.
“Snowflake babies” are children born from embryos who were created through IVF by one couple but frozen and later adopted by another, often through the Nightlight Christian Adoptions program, which has facilitated over 1,400 births since 1997. Hannah Strege was the first such baby born in 1998, providing an alternative to destroying unused embryos.
In heaven the frozen children of our age will be saints and martyrs to a pagan, selfish society steeped in ignorance and stupidity.
The rational, immortal souls of these sovereign persons are denied and manipulated as though these sovereign persons are a commodity to be bought and sold.
II
Sexual dysphoria may ne caused by the natural means by which the human body in the womb compensates for a disease destroyed sexual organ. The human body produces the other sex and vice versa, thereby giving the child both male and female sensibilities. While this maybe confusing at first, the person may want to employ both male and female sensibilities to better his life and serve humanity to the betterment of all.
Of course, were a Pope to lose his office due to heresy, he wouldn’t be Pope anymore and could therefore be in schism.
This, however, would result in a circular, chicken/egg logic loop which no true Scotsman would even engage in 😉
III
Aristotle and Aquinas believed that human life began at quickening, that is, when the child began to move. This belief caused Aquinas to talk about vegetable souls, animal souls, then human souls. While vegetables and animals have souls, that is, the form of vegetables and animals, as rocks have rock souls and tables and chairs have table and chair souls, that is the form of rocks and tables and chairs. The human soul is endowed when two become one, at the fertilization of the ovum by the sperm, God becomes a third member of the human life Who endows the human soul in the likeness of God with immortality, free will, intellect, conscience, sovereign personhood and talents such as music, art and theology.
Blessed Mary proved this when she said: “I am the Immaculate Conception” I AM is the name of God. The Immaculate Conception chose to serve God perpetually in innocence. Mary did the will of God as perfectly as her Son Jesus Christ did the will of His Father in heaven perfectly.
Mary chose with her free will and intellect completely informed consent to serve God for all time and into eternity.
It was then that Mary was immaculately conceived. Mary kept her promise to her Creator, her Redeemer and the Holy Spirit of God.
Mary had completely and totally understood her commitment, literally her covenant with God and her immortal human soul.
Every human soul endowed at fertilization by God and bears the likeness of God is the form of the body and is endowed with free will, intellect, conscience, sovereign personhood, talents and immortal destiny.
These human souls and their relationship with “their Creator” at conception know their Creator, worship their Creator and share implicit Baptism with all humanity through the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan River, for all human beings from Adam until the end of time are loved in the Sacred Heart of Jesus, present on the altar, the Real Presence. We, the people are all there except those unhappy souls who choose not to be there.
The government instituted by other human souls endowed at fertilization gives the human being citizenship and a tax bill. (This is why God refused to give the Israelites a king. All human beings have sovereign personhood, but the Israelites wanted a king. God gave them Saul)
The government of men does not give the sovereign unborn person free will, intellect, conscience, talents or immortal destiny.
Abortion, Roe v. Wade posits sovereign personhood at birth when the sovereign person becomes a citizen. Sovereign persons may celebrate sovereignty, but to create sovereignty is not one of our human souls’ power or authority.
Abortion is the slaughter of unborn sovereign persons, the destruction of a nation; of “We, the people…”
If a pope commits heresy in the forest and no one hears it, does it make a sound?
A few theologians have speculated on the question of a pope committing heresy, but the Church has never ruled on it. It has nothing to do with schism though. Error, heresy, apostasy, schism, etc., aren’t the same thing or degrees of the same thing. A statement can be heretical without the speaker being heretical. A speaker can be heretical without being in schism. A schismatic can speak without being in error. We do this internet thing where if we suspect someone of something we think we have the right to accuse him of everything. But words have meanings.
As an aside, words having meanings but sometimes they develop over time. The word “proselytism” has come to have connotations of rhetorical or performative attempts at conversion. This is the kind of behavior Pope Francis was criticizing.
And now, my pet peeve of the day: what is with all the Dem Congresscritters flooding Facebook with their claims that the SAVE Act will prevent millions of married women from voting because their married name won’t match their birth certificate? As if millions of married women haven’t dealt with the same issue very easily by using their marriage license/certificate to document the name change? This talking point is so easy to refute, and scores of women are doing just that in their comments, that I can’t figure out why dozens of Congresscritters and other public officials seem to be marching in lockstep with it.
“I refrained from Communion, as I couldn’t be 100% sure the Eucharist was validly consecrated”
It’s my understanding that as long as the priest says the Eucharistic Prayer, and specifically the words of consecration, accurately, the consecration is valid. If the priest’s moral character or worthiness doesn’t affect the validity of the sacrament (as the Donatists believed) then why would his tone of voice or his “theatrical” gestures have any effect?
Pinky:
“As an aside, words having meanings but sometimes they develop over time. The word “proselytism” has come to have connotations of rhetorical or performative attempts at conversion. This is the kind of behavior Pope Francis was criticizing.”
The third Luminous Mystery of the Rosary is: The Proclamation of the Kingdom. Correct your brother Matt. 18: 15-17. Councel the doubtful, a spiritual work of mercy. Faith and action.
There aren’t enough bad things Pope Francis could say about the faithful. Pacahmama and other indigenous idols.
The abortionists presume to know how the unborn child relates to “their Creator”, God, in a personal relationship in thought, word and deed.
No it wasn’t! This tired old Francis apologetic has been disproved by Francis’ own words countless times! He was against ‘proselytism’ because of his oft-repeated belief that there was no need for anyone to convert to Catholicism. He even scolded an 8-year-old girl for voicing her desire that her protestant friends would become Catholic.
Elaine-
I agree that it’s a red herring. If countless women board airplanes every day (strict ID requirements there) then I’m sure all eligible women will be able to vote.
Especially since there are provisional ballots.
I’ve never heard of a provisional boarding pass! 😂
If Pope Leo XIV wasn’t deliberately tone deaf and blind as a bat when it comes to optics, he’d schedule Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s beatification for July 4th of this year, and travel to the U.S. and do the beatification himself.
It’s such a natural Greg! Unfortunately the Pope is carrying on the Vatican tradition of treating the Church in the US as a red headed step child, only of interest for the money she can raise.
Don, why is it that the most anti-American members of the Catholic Church American bishops?