Some men think the Earth is round, others think it flat; it is a matter capable of question. But if it is flat, will the King’s command make it round? And if it is round, will the King’s command flatten it? No, I will not sign.
Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
Acting does not get any better than this.
Two masters of their craft playing two masters of their craft, statesmanship, in Cardinal Wolsey and Sir Thomas More. We tend to forget about Saint Thomas More that he was a statesman and a politician.
What makes the above scene doubly poignant is that I assume that Sir Thomas More had to see where all this was going. He knew the King, and he knew that Henry was relentless in getting his way. He could foresee that his stand against the divorce and against the predictable seizure of the Church in England by the King would likely cost him his head. Possessed of one of the sharpest intellects ever graced to a human being, it was probably as simple to him as a basic mathematical calculation. No doubt he hoped to escape such a fate, but he would not sacrifice his principles to do so.
Realpolitik meets conscience. It is a superb scene and our sympathies are enlisted, as they should be, on the side of Saint Thomas More as opposed to that ultimate player of power politics, Cardinal Wolsey. As was said about another Cardinal, Richelieu, by Pope Urban VIII upon the death of Richelieu, the same might also have been said about most of the life of Wolsey: “If God exists, Cardinal Richelieu will have to answer for many things. If not…, then yes, he will have done well in life.” (Si Dieu existe, le cardinal de Richelieu devra répondre de beaucoup de choses. Sinon […] ma foi, il aura bien réussi dans la vie).”
Compared to such an ecclesiastical politician, Saint Thomas More represents the startling clarity of a brilliant mind allied with a warm Catholic faith. One might wish however, that along with the innocence of doves, defenders of the Church in England during the time of Saint Thomas More had also possessed a bit more of the cunning of serpents. However martyrs, I suspect, often see far beyond their own times, and what might be regarded as folly, in the fullness of time becomes greater than any earthly wisdom.
“The resistance of More and Fisher to the royal supremacy in Church government was a heroic stand. They realised the defects of the existing Catholic system, but they hated and feared the aggressive nationalism which was destroying the unity of Christendom. They saw that the break with Rome carried with it the risk of a despotism freed from every fetter. More stood forth as the defender of all that was finest in the medieval outlook. He represents to history its universality, its belief in spiritual values, and its instinctive sense of otherworldliness. Henry VIII with cruel axe decapitated not only a wise and gifted counselor, but a system which, though it had failed to live up to its ideals in practice, had for long furnished mankind with its brightest dreams.”
Sir Winston Churchill
John the Baptist, the Apostle Paul, Sir Thomas More, Maximillian Kolbe, ah the names of the “super-saints.” Would be that the good Lord sends us a great one now to resuscitate our Church of today, so tainted with “the Smoke of Satan.”
Thanks, love this scene, and movie. My personal favorite scene is the one in which More’s family try to convince More to arrest Richard Rich- just because he’s a dangerous man. I’ve used the argument More used many times in the past few years, with varying degrees of success.
very dignified squee
“Cut down all the laws of England.”
Oh, goodness, YES!
I think I first read that from Donald, and it just went straight to my heart.
Yes. This. THIS is my political philosophy, at root.
“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!”
Today Chairman Xi appears to have been given a lot of what King Henry VIII was asking for back in the day. For the most part we have the Church of China with the Vatican’s blessings.
@”What makes the above scene doubly poignant is that I assume that Sir Thomas More had to see where all this was going. He knew the King, and he knew that Henry was relentless in getting his way. He could foresee that his stand against the divorce and against the predictable seizure of the Church in England by the King would likely cost him his head. “-
The experience of St. Thomas More, along with St. John Fisher have some clear parallels with our present age. Those who are drunk with power will not willingly be denied. They detest those who refuse or resist them. Times change but the corrupt human heart endures, save for God’s grace and true repentance.
Henry Tudor…the best example against monarchy and for a constitutional republic….and…why we do not need a state church of any type, the SSPX opposition to religious freedom be damned. I don’t want any government to enforce adherence to any religion. It always ends badly.