I guess if at trial, assuming that the Fourth Reich still bothers with trials, the Government runs into trouble proving up this obviously manufactured farcical plot, they can call in our FBI for technical help since they are the grand masters at the labor saving process of both creating plots and then crushing them. No matter how cynical you are about the machinations of all governments, you aren’t cynical enough.
A useful distraction from the rotten economic performance of the current German government, with the confused old Prince and his handful of followers as clay in the hands of government agents and informants. The example of January 6 gives all Western governments blueprints for mini Reichstag fires whenever they feel the need to give a circus in the media to the people they mislead.
Maybe the nutty professor Heinrich was just a convenient scapegoat they could take out their frustrations on, following their performance at the World Cup…🤭
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11462077/amp/World-Cup-Fans-insist-Germany-DESERVED-lose-Japan-focus-politics.html
What is it?! with Germany….
Maybe. Bear in mind that the argument, “Nobody is stupid enough to do XYZ,” is falsified on a daily basis. That was, in fact, my reason for initially believing that OJ must have been innocent, since he could easily have “upgraded” to a younger, prettier blonde. (The slow-speed chase in the Bronco convinced me otherwise.)
“Nobody is stupid enough to do XYZ,” is falsified on a daily basis.”
And proven true in other cases on a daily basis. In this case we have a plan that makes no sense, with a group of people who likely have bupkis experience with military operations. This bears the hallmarks of a manufactured plot: unpopular politics, wild, impossible, talk about restoring the monarchy, and suddenly out of the clear blue they are going to engage in an operation that would be impossible for an elite military force. Smells to high heaven, especially since most of these people look to be of an age when they would be using walkers in any paramilitary operation they participated in.
Alas, nein springtime for Kaiser and Germany!
Thus demonstrating once again that the unification of the disparate German states under Prussia in 1871 was more an illustration of differences rather than commonality. Even the languages were dissimilar. Both sides of my family emigrated to the US after this event as they had little desire to live under what turned out to be Prussian domination.
“And proven true in other cases on a daily basis.” A universal like “nobody” doesn’t work that way. You’d need something fuzzier, like “most people” or even “almost nobody”.
“In this case we have a plan that makes no sense, with a group of people who likely have bupkis experience with military operations.” That also describes well enough the most famous failed Putsch in German history. OK, yeah, Göring was a war hero from WW1, but he he was a pilot, so he had bupkis experience with anything on the ground, to say nothing of overthrowing a government.
Weird? Stupid? Sure. Happened in German? Ohhhhhh. That explains it.
That also describes well enough the most famous failed Putsch in German history. OK, yeah, Göring was a war hero from WW1, but he he was a pilot, so he had bupkis experience with anything on the ground, to say nothing of overthrowing a government.
This is irrelevant to a discussion of the matter at hand.
“This is irrelevant to a discussion of the matter at hand.” It refutes the idea that people with “bupkis experience with military operations” would never attempt the violent overthrow of a government, which is a point someone else tried to make. Not only does it refute the idea, it refutes the idea with a concrete example from the not-so-distant history of the very country being discussed.
Outis:
Are you trying to compare these guys to the Nazis? Totalitarian ideas had widespread sympathy all through German society in the early 20th century. You couldn’t walk ten meters without colliding with an ex-military man. There were Commie putsches all over the country in the post-war years, many that took longer to put down than what happened at a beer hall in Munich (although it’s kinda funny we never hear of them, isn’t it?) There is no demonstrable support for the Wilhemine monarchy’s return in modern Germany, and real plotters would hardly pick superannuated doddards as revolutionary leaders.
Well, if they wanted their “plot” to succeed, why model it after an historic failure? However, if your goal was to equate those on the right with Nazis, manipulating some poorly educated simpletons into reenacting the beer hall putsch would do the trick.
“This is irrelevant to a discussion of the matter at hand.” It refutes the idea that people with “bupkis experience with military operations” would never attempt the violent overthrow of a government, which is a point someone else tried to make. Not only does it refute the idea, it refutes the idea with a concrete example from the not-so-distant history of the very country being discussed.
They had the support of Gen. Ludendorff and were able to detain the general state commissioner von Kahr. Note, the political order of Germany was quite unsettled at the time and there were several successful putches and and around this time. Your analogy is worthless.
CAG:
You can see a fix of sorts is in already by reading an interview on NPR with a German historian, where the word “Reich” is used with the clear implication of Nazism. In German history, “Reich” can be read as Empire, Power or simply State. The nobility of the Holy Roman Empire are the Reichsadel. France is still Frankreich and Austria Oesterreich. The 1871-1918 state was Deutsches Reich (German Empire or State), which name btw was retained for the Weimar Republic. So somebody who wanted the re-establishment of the old Reich (crazy as they would be) is not automatically a Nazi. Unless the Germans finds guns or materiel, this looks like a gross overreaction to the rantings of a bunch of grumpy old men.
“That also describes well enough the most famous failed Putsch in German history.”
Hitler had been a front line soldaten during the War who earned an Iron Cross first class. Most of his followers at the attempted Beer Hall Putsch likewise had military experience in the War.
“Hitler had been a front line soldaten during the War who earned an Iron Cross first class.” True. Germany has not had any wars lately, but they only got rid of the draft in 2011, so I wouldn’t be too sure that zero of the guys accused here had no military experience, just as some of the participants in the Putsch were not “lucky” enough to have served in WW1. Regardless, both this supposed plot and the actual Beer Hall Putsch were pipe dreams.
“Are you trying to compare these guys to the Nazis?” Let me put it this way: If anyone says that the idea of Germans attempting to overthrow their own government by force is “Inconceivable!”, my response is, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”