Thursday, March 28, AD 2024 6:46pm

Legal v. Illegal Rebellions

 

 

 

 

 

 

Toranaga: “[Another person] says that the Netherlands were vassals of the Spanish king until just a few years ago. Is that true?”

Blackthorne: “Yes.”

Toranaga: “Therefore, the Netherlands – your allies – are in a state of rebellion against their lawful king?”

Blackthorne: “They’re fighting against the Spaniard, yes, but – ”

Toranaga: “Isn’t that rebellion? Yes or no?”

Blackthorne: “Yes. But there are mitigating circumstances. Serious miti- ”

Toranaga: “There are no ‘mitigating circumstances’ when it comes to rebellion against a sovereign lord!”

Blackthorne: “Unless you win.”

Toranaga looked at him intently. Then laughed uproariously. “Yes, Mister Foreigner…you have named the one mitigating factor.”

James Clavell, Shogun

 

 

 

Hattip to commenter Dale Price for the idea of linking George Washington and Shogun.  Language advisory as to the below video:

 

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Mary De Voe
Monday, September 26, AD 2022 10:12am

“Toranaga: “Therefore, the Netherlands – your allies – are in a state of rebellion against their lawful king?””
“lawful king”?
If anyone reads The Declaration of Independence Thomas Jefferson cited numerous violations against the civil rights of sovereign citizens committed by George III. Rebellion against evil is heaven’s virtue. Kings who behave as demons have forfeit their divine right and ought to be deposed as criminals. Sorry. I cannot accept that tyrants have more power than God.

Donald Link
Monday, September 26, AD 2022 10:30am

Rebellion is still one of those measures held in reserve against intolerable and clearly immoral circumstances. The Spanish Civil War of 1936-39 probably qualifies. The aftermath of a successful effort is what often gives rebellion a bad name. To avoid that, the winners often give it a benign or even an admirable name. The Glorious Revolution in Great Britain comes to mind.

Mary De Voe
Monday, September 26, AD 2022 10:41am

“The reasoning behind that would have been incomprehensible to a Japanese nobleman of the early Seventeenth Century, even if it was translated into Japanese. Few greater sins existed than rebellion against a duly constituted superior. Different culture, different world.”
From Caesar to the present some peope require kings who are god. Are all men created equal in the image of God? People who are abused do not need to be told of the abuse.
God gave man freedom.

Mary De Voe
Monday, September 26, AD 2022 11:12am

In the 1956 film The Ten Commandments, Cecil B. DeMille puts in the mouth of Joshua these words.: “God made man. Man made slaves.”

David WS
David WS
Monday, September 26, AD 2022 6:09pm

“Legal or Illegal Rebellions?”

Seems to me similar to the question of how someone who is pro life could in self-defense. The aggressor (person or State) forfeits that right.

Mary De Voe
Monday, September 26, AD 2022 8:22pm

“The Ten Commandments was a great film which reflected the US in the Fifties. Not so much Egypt in the thirteenth century BC.”
“Proclaim Liberty to all the nations.” Moses’ last instruction to Joshua.
At the Transfiguration, Jesus communed with Moses and Elijah. They understood.
Sorry this needs to be said:
On EWTN today the priest read Pope Francis’ intention for the month of September: To abolish the death penalty world-wide.
The death penalty may be abolished world-wide only if homicide is abolished world-wide. God established equal Justice for all men. To deny the civil right to equal Justice for all men would be to deny the reality of God.
Ordained priests do not execute the death penalty. It is the sworn duty of priests to help souls into heaven. The priest may forgive the murderer’s homicide but only when the murderer admits and reprents of his murder. Without repentance, the murderer is not forgiven. No one in heaven or on earth can change this requirement.
Lay persons may forgive the scandal inflicted as they are murdered. I can forgive my murderer. I cannot forgive your murderer without becoming an accessory after the fact of your murder.
It is good that Pope Francis prays for the end of homicide in our world. Equal Justice for all men is a God-given civil right.
And again:Germaine Grisez fell into error when he displaced the human dignity of the murderer of homicide in the first degree. Homicide in the first degree is the free will choice of the murderer. All, individuals who deny the murderer his free will choice and the consequences deny what God has made and endowed to all men, free will and the consequences.
The murderer of homicide in the first degree as a member of the state and of the government brings himself to Justice and is executed through his own power of attorney.
Saint John Paul II forgave his assassin and pleaded for the assassin’s release. John Paul II had love to forgive his assassin and plead for his release. The state must deny John Paul II’s request and suffer the Pope’s assassin to do his penance as all persons must do their penance in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
I can forgive my murderer. I cannot forgive your murderer without becoming an accessory after the fact.
By defining the murderer of homicide in the first degree by his human dignity, Germaine Grisez defines all men as murderers of homicide in the first degree.
God creates all men souls in original innocence.
Men who maintain their soul’s original innocence as the Blessed Virgin Mary does, cannot be denied by their original innocence.
Germaine Grisez bears false witness against the Blessed Virgin Mary and all men who maintain their soul’s original innocence.
Is it Justice to define the murderer ( of homicide in the first degree) by his human dignity and refuse to define the victim of homicide in the first degree by his human dignity?

Bussy Boyd
Bussy Boyd
Monday, September 26, AD 2022 11:10pm

Speaking of the Italian elections, here was Steven Greydanus’ contribution to the discourse. Pedantry instead of substance.

CAG
CAG
Tuesday, September 27, AD 2022 5:11am

The film makes it sound as if the Jews were to proclaim liberty to the inhabitants of Canaan rather than to be waging a war of conquest against them.

It’s actually a fairly common “progressive Christian” idea (I won’t dignify it by calling it a theory) that the conquest of Canaan was actually a rebellion of Canaanite slaves … A movement initiated by the Hebrew’s exodus from Egypt which spread throughout the region.
… I like DeMille’s take on it better 🙂

Mary De Voe
Tuesday, September 27, AD 2022 6:04am

“Proclaim Liberty to all the nations.” Moses’ last instruction to Joshua.
Jesus said to preach penitence and forgiveness of sins in His name throughout the world, Yes, even to Canaan.
The Ten Commandments is a great film. I however do not appreciate the name of God coming from the burning bush, that refers to God as a thing, a “what” from the KJV. God is “WHO” three soveriegn persons in one God.
Speaking of the fifties: Carl Rogers came out with a philosophy : On Becoming a Person which was taught as a religion. All men are created persons, sovereign persons. What man developes is his personality, his destiny, who he is.
Repentance and forgiveness of sin in the name of Jesus will set us free.

Dale Price
Dale Price
Tuesday, September 27, AD 2022 10:50am

While flattered to be given credit, I don’t believe it was I who suggested the linkage.

Dale Price
Dale Price
Tuesday, September 27, AD 2022 11:27am

Oh, no worries. I just didn’t want someone to feel put out.

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