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PopeWatch: Annulment Prime

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DonL
DonL
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 3:47am

I understand that the economics of this process will eventually cause a problem, in that two separate drones will be required to send annulment notices to both non-spousal units simultaneously in order to avoid any appearance of bias or favorability.
The Vatican assured concerned members of the press that the cost will not be born by the customers themselves however as an annual collection will be taken up by all national bishop’s conferences–to be called the “Drones Matter” collection.

Shawn Marshall
Shawn Marshall
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 5:57am

A friend of mine got 2 annulments. I know a woman who got an annulment after 30 years of marriage and two grown children. She had fallen into adultery with a grade school flame after a class reunion.
Annulments were a farce. Quicker annulments will be more farcical. How many struggling families did stay together by heeding Christ’s admonition? The church should teach what Christ taught. If one chooses to receive communion while unworthy (who isn’t) then let us remember Christ gave communion to Judas. The church must not allow itself to be split by denying the Word. Let all who would deny His teaching on marriage join the Lutherans. A second reformation is not needed. For those who are divorced unwillingly, an annulment may be apt since adultery has likely occurred.

Philip
Philip
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 7:35am

Coming “Out” in 2016 is the Kodacolor Prime.
That’s Right!
For the onslaught of Gay married couples who wish for New and improved marriages, the Kodacolor Prime is the Taylor made annulment for you!
Sweet!

Stephen E Dalton
Stephen E Dalton
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 8:21am

This satire is too close to the truth to be ha-ha funny. On the serious side, I consider the new process to be a slap in the face to those of us who played by the rules, and were willing to accept the Church’s ruling that a previous marriage was still legally binding on us. Mine wasn’t, but this ‘merciful’ rule is going to provoke a lot of resentment among Catholics on both sides of the fence in a marriage mix-up. Imagine the hell that will break loose if a future Pope has to tighten up the rules to restore sanity to this mess.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 11:57am

Yes annulments have been a farce under previous Popes also.

It’s not so much the speed of the annulment that made them a joke, but rather, the fact that some people applied and successfully received an annulment after years of marriage and children, only because they wanted to remarry. I know of some.

It’s a reality that some marriages cannot go on where the couple continue living under the same roof. What happened to separating and living a single celibate life dedicating oneself to raising children? Not jumping off to a new lover and pretending God has dissolved the vows you took because of a “technicality.”

Annulments have been a farce in the Catholic Church for many years. This new speeding up the process is bad news for the Institution of Marriage.

It would be far better for the Catholic Church to have tougher pre- marriage preparation classes that tested a couple much more aggressively to ensure THEY knew what they were getting themselves into before they decided to take their vows. This could prevent future divorces, cough cough, “annulments”.

Karl
Karl
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 1:33pm

Premarital preparation will NOT, it WILL NOT, change the corrupted conscience of a person determined to leave their marriage. This is a BIG FALSEHOOD. It MIGHT yield some better initial understanding, THAT I could see. But the call of adultery and the call of vengeance are too attractive to the VAST MAJORITY of those in marital difficulties.

PREMARITAL EDUCATION IS A SHOT IN THE DARK.

Karl

Paul W Primavera
Paul W Primavera
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 1:38pm

Folks, none of this matters to most American Catholics who are twice, thrice or more times married. They say nothing, go to Sunday Mass for appearance’s sake and receive Holy Communion, returning to their pews and never darkening the door of a Confessional. I would guess – and it is a guess – that 90% of divorced and remarried American Catholics do this if they attend Mass at all. No priest questions them, and there are no homilies about adultery or fornication or final judgment or hell. None. Zero. Zip point squat. And yes, I have seen this happen. There is no adult Catechesis, and children’s Catechesis is being done by these very same adults, and yes, I know personally that that is true. Adherence to the Gospel of repentence is a joke in the American Roman Church, but mention social justice and the common good, and these clerics are all over it like sink on $h1t.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Saturday, September 12, AD 2015 4:53pm

Karl, most people go into marriage naive- myself included. Some of these people have come from broken homes- like my husband. One sign of trouble and they want to throw in the towel.

Marriage is HARD. The first 10 years is excruciatingly difficult. Most people do not realise this. They don’t realise that adversity in marriage, conflict, struggle is NORMAL. They assume it is a sign of a bad partner choice, and either leave or continue on an unhealthy path which ends in disaster, usually with children as a casualty.

If they did know how difficult it is, they wouldn’t get married. Couples need to be made aware of this ESPECIALLY if they are from broken families. The Church needs to say this in pre-wedding prep.

Our pre-wedding prep which was in the a maronite Catholic Church was laughable- it involved the Monsignor telling us that the Pill is wrong, but up to ones own conscience. What the?!!! If you have had bad Faith formation growing up, you’d float with the wind. I didn’t, thank God, so I was mortified. My husband on the other hand, a devout Catholic and better formed today, had no clue.

The Pill (which damages relationships), prayer, confession, conflict resolution, in-laws (I’m not kidding here), prayer, prayer, confession, fidelity to one another, children, prayer, prayer, confession. These all need to be brought home- drilled- in marriage prep.

And lastly, couples need to know that Marriage is a Sacrament. A Contract. And this contract cannot be broken. Even if we pretend, it cannot be broken.

Yes, this is the responsibility of our Clergy. Some hard love BEFORE the marriage ceremony. By hard-love, I mean scare them.

Divorce used to be a shameful word. If I came back to my parents divorced, they would have been mortified. At times, this forced me to keep going in hard times. And thank God I did. Three beautiful girls resulted, and our relationship is stronger.

We all come from different backgrounds and upbringing, we need to teach our children and the Church needs to support us, that Marriage is serious. Who cares what the world tells us marriage is. We need to be confident and absolute in what this is.

What has happened to us as a Faithful? We’ve become very weak as people.

Sorry for my rant. We can’t give up, even if our Clergy seem to. We have to stay Faithful to God.

Michael Dowd
Michael Dowd
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 2:33am

With easy annulments Pope Francis did exactly the opposite of what he should have done. Right now the annulment process is a joke with just about anyone being approved. All that’s needed is the right story in the right words which the Church will provide help for you to create. In the eyes of this devilish process practically all marriages are annulable. This means that all marriages are most probably invalid, which means that most folks who think they are married are not. In other words, you only know you are married when your annulment is refused–a true catch 22. Pretty funny, eh? Not.

Suzy
Suzy
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 2:35am

And here I am, not born or raised in any faith, abusive first marriage, then found Christ in Protestant Evangelical church mid 30’s, baptized in the Trinity, then re-married a lapsed Catholic, we had no interest in being Catholic, surprise, after 9 years of marriage, drawn into Catholic faith, wow, awesome, what?, annulments needed, lots of complications, years going by, we don’t receive communion but long for Him so much, it’s an awful process to go through and definitely needs reform, was looking forward to that so maybe someday, communion at last…. but look how snarky so many are about it, tempted to give up and leave the church now, but – there He is, where else can we go 🙁

Philip
Philip
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 3:41am

Suzy.

Hang on!
Snarky you can deal with, life away from Him, that’s another story. Hang in there.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 3:57am

Suzy, it is God who welcomes you into His Church.

I have never seen a priest deny anyone The Blessed Sacrament- only the faithful choose not to receive Him because they are in a state of sin. I don’t receive communion when I feel I am not worthy. Not the person sitting next to me at Church, not my husband, or my children, or another person on a blog can determine this. Only I can examine my conscience to determine if I am worthy or not.

“Snarkiness” never denied anyone The Blessed Host.

It’s a matter-of-fact. Not snarkiness.

DonL
DonL
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 4:32am

” …For those who are divorced unwillingly, an annulment may be apt since adultery has likely occurred….”

Unless I’m mistaken, adultery alone is not justification to declare that a valid marriage ever took place….
example: If your home burns down that doesn’t change the reality that you bought and owned it validly.

Shawn Marshall
Shawn Marshall
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 4:45am

Don L
Maybe you should read what Christ said as reported in the gospel.

Michael Paterson-Seymour
Michael Paterson-Seymour
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:02am

Shawn Marshall

A common reading of μὴ ἐπὶ πορνείᾳ, based on Hellenic Jewish usage, is that πορνείᾳ refers to a forbidden union.

Thus, in the Septuagint translation of Deut 23:2, the Hebrew word מַמְזֵ֖ר [Mamzer] is translated as εκ πόρνης, literally “one born of a harlot.” Now, in Jewish law, a mamzer is a child born of a forbidden union, that is, one born of parents within the forbidden degrees of marriage specified in Leviticus 18:6-17, or of a married woman’s adultery.

Again, we find St Paul using πορνείᾳ in 1 Cor 5 in reference to the man who had married his father’s wife. This would be very much in accordance with rabbinic usage.

The sense of Matt 19:9 would thus be, “unless the union is a forbidden one.” It is clear enough that Our Lord is not referring to adultery, for He uses the ordinary Greek word for adultery – μοιχός in the same passage.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:04am

Adultery is not grounds for annulment. Domestic violence is not grounds for an annulment. Alcohol, drug and gambling addiction are not grounds for annulment. Abortion is not even grounds for annulment. These are all sins that may occur within a valid marriage.

An annulled marriage means it was not a “legit” contract in the first place ie. fraudulent marriages, lying about wanting children, lying about the reason for marriage, marrying for material gain, lying about what Faith one wants to bring children up in. If deception is involved then the contract is not valid.

A non-Catholic marriage may or may not be valid. This would depend on intent, and is more complex. And remarriage into the Catholic Church is possible, provided the previous non-Catholic marriage was determined to be non-valid.

Michael Paterson-Seymour
Michael Paterson-Seymour
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:09am

Michael Dowd wrote, “This means that all marriages are most probably invalid, which means that most folks who think they are married are not…”

One would hope that this is an exaggeration. Nevertheless, your comment calls to mind the words of a great Scottish lawyer, F W Walton, the author of the leading textbook on Husband and Wife: “It is a curious fact, though true, that there must always be… a considerable number of persons who could not say off-hand whether they were married or not. It is only when the question has been decided in a court of law that their doubts can be removed. But although they do not know if they are married, and no one could tell them with certainty till the action was tried, it is nevertheless true that they must be either one or the other. There is no half-way house.”

If marriage requires the consent, the meeting of minds, of two people, that is simply unavoidable.

Bill Persinger
Bill Persinger
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 6:27am

The Eye of the Tiber truly puts this issue into perspective!

Justin McDevitt
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 8:10am

I understand the substance of the point being made in this post, but the way it’s being conveyed seems a little too close to the “seat of the scoffers” to me. If the goal is to create genuine discourse, talking about ideas based on the face value of their merits is probably the most widely accepted (and charitable) way. Satire can be a powerful tool for drawing attention to a problem by framing it in a more stylized light. But, while snark and derision are admittedly powerful tools (and, perhaps ironically, very commonly wielded by the secular American left), I have a hard time believing it’s in the spirit of Christ to resort to them. We should speak the Truth with purity and charity. That’s just my opinion, and I mean no offense.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 9:24am

Marriage is HARD. The first 10 years is excruciatingly difficult. Most people do not realise this. They don’t realise that adversity in marriage, conflict, struggle is NORMAL.

Rather florid, ma’am. Give it a rest.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 9:25am

With easy annulments Pope Francis did exactly the opposite of what he should have done.

Seems to be the pattern.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 10:28am

“Rather florid ma’am give it a rest”.

You’re an idiot. As usual.

Paul W Primavera
Paul W Primavera
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 11:22am

Art Deco is correct, Ezabelle. If marriage were excruciatingly hard, then I would not do it. Yes, it tequires hard work and determination and most of all love. Because of love I am married.
.
Now what is excrucistingly hard? Calibrating the Power Range Nuclear Instrumentation on a 688 class nuclear submarine surfaced in the North Atlantic in winter time, and you have been on patrol for two months and you got two months to go, and you’re one of the only two qualified reactor operators aboard, serving port and starboard duty. Now that is excrucuatingly hard.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 11:27am

I said the first 10 years were excruciatingly hard. For me they were. For many I know it was. For various reasons. Not all the time, but enough of the time.

Congratulations if it wasn’t for you Paul. But people throw in the towel when it gets hard- not cause its blissful. You’re out of touch with many young couples today.

William P. Walsh
William P. Walsh
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 11:32am

Just a tangential thought. Thinking you would be a better spouse with a different partner is like thinking you would be a better violinist with a different fiddle. As for me, my wife is a Stradivarius of a woman belonging to a fiddler who is not ready for Carnegie Hall. How do you get there? Practice – Practice – Practice.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 11:34am

Excruciatingly hard is cancer whilst raising 3 young children (the youngest 6 months old), severe depression, being married to someone from a broken childhood/alcoholic father who drank himself till his liver burst with emotional scars, financial struggle and crappy in-laws.

.Anzlyne
.Anzlyne
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 2:56pm

my wife is a Stradivarius ha! thanks for that !

DonL
DonL
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 3:15pm

My wife is not a Stradivarius, she is a saint (56 years of marriage to me does that) that sounds like a Stradivarius.

Paul W Primavera
Paul W Primavera
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 4:44pm

Ezabelle, my apologies. Apparently you have gone through the Cross. Regarding abusive alcoholic spouses, I told my completely non-alcoholic spouse to leave me post haste if I ever drink or drug again, and not to look back. I was given that very instruction early on in my sobriety in a 12 step program almost 3 decades ago, and Al Anon members may often be told the same – never tolerate staying in an abusive alcoholic relationship. My sponsor kept it simple for me: “You are not Christ crucified, so don’t pretend to be Chirist crucified.” That said, I am no theologian and hence am not qualified to determine how active alcoholism or drug addiction figures into the annulment process. But the bottom line is that my personal sobriety, and the safety and security especially of women and children come first. If that means divorce, then so be it. Drunks and dope fiends do not belong in relationships, and I speak from personal experience.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:06pm

But people throw in the towel when it gets hard- not cause its blissful. You’re out of touch with many young couples today.

No, most people who initiate divorce proceedings have an accumulation of small complaints.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:19pm

“No, most people who initiate divorce proceedings have an accumulation of small complaints.”

No. It’s not “most”- where’s your proof- Surely not Entertainment Tonight. Infidelity is far from a “small complaint”. Fact of the matter, if someone was happy they don’t get divorced for the hoot of it.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:24pm

Excruciatingly hard is cancer whilst raising 3 young children (the youngest 6 months old), severe depression, being married to someone from a broken childhood/alcoholic father who drank himself till his liver burst with emotional scars, financial struggle and crappy in-laws.

You’re really not describing an ordinary accumulation of problems. That aside, there are six items on your list. The two for which marriage would be a necessary condition would be your in-laws and problems derived from them. Morbid alcoholism is characteristic of maybe 1 person in 100. Your children are derived from your marriage (not everyone’s are), but you’re not going to find it any simpler to rear them shorn of a husband.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:33pm

No. It’s not “most”- where’s your proof-

I’ve immersed myself in the sociological and demographic literature on this question. My bibliography is off line, and, several moves later, It would be a project to locate it. The probability of divorce has associations with a mess of ecological factors, such as the degree of demographic churn in an area and certain cultural metrics. It’s an act strongly influenced by matrix. As for the social survey self-reports on why people initiate proceedings, it varies over time and varies between men and women. DIstinct and specific complaints (e.g. adultery and alcoholism) amounted to about 1/3 of the total self-reports the last set of descriptive statistics I looked at. Vague complaints (‘abuse’), feelings of being taken for granted, &c. form the lion’s share.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:36pm

if someone was happy they don’t get divorced for the hoot of it.

Madam, most people are sometimes happy, sometimes not, and, quite commonly, addled about the sources of one or the other, about their actual realistic prospects in this world, and about what they should reasonably expect from others. Leads to a great many bad decisions.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:36pm

“You’re really not describing an ordinary accumulation of problems. That aside, there are six items on your list.”

Health issues and “baggage” from childhood are “ordinary” problems occurring in marriage. Your “normal” is not normal today. Your husband/comment was left field. Most children are from a marriage.

Funny how you pick and choose what’s “normal” to suit your argument.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:38pm

To say “most” is an exaggeration Art Deco. You should have used “some”. People don’t get divorced if they are happy.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:41pm

The only thing I’m with you on, is that more need to see the long haul of marriage through, and divorce is an easy option.

Paul W Primavera
Paul W Primavera
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 5:42pm

Alcoholism is worse than the 1 out of 100 figure that Art Deco put forward:
.
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 6:33pm

Paul, and you have gone through the cross also. My prayers and admiration at your will to remain sober. Addiction leaves its mark on generations far beyond our own. God Bless you abundantly.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 8:14pm

Alcoholism is worse than the 1 out of 100 figure that Art Deco put forward:

There was a modifier on that, Paul, derived from her description of her in-laws. There are many drunks. There are few people who drink themselves to death or kill themselves in drunken car wrecks.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 8:15pm

To say “most” is an exaggeration Art Deco.

It absolutely is not.

Art Deco
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 8:21pm

Health issues and “baggage” from childhood are “ordinary” problems occurring in marriage. Your “normal” is not normal today. Your husband/comment was left field. Most children are from a marriage.

Madam, you described one ordinary background condition, three atypical background conditions, one common (but not typcially abiding) problem, and one discrete and unusual problem, as running simultaneously. No, most people’s lives are not like that. They have their problems ad seriatim. Neither would such an accumulation be a function of one’s marriage. The marriage is the setting of the problems, not the cause of the problems.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 8:21pm

Thanks for the link to actual statistics Paul. The numbers are quite sad.

When Art Deco fixes his computer he’ll be able to go back and immerse himself in literature of the demographically and sociological nature. Hopefully not from the 1920’s where he remains stuck.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 8:23pm

Madam? Why feign respect? These problems are typical of many marriages. They put strain in a marriage.

Keep going.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 8:29pm

“Most” is a complete and utter exaggeration. Dig up your proof.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Sunday, September 13, AD 2015 9:08pm

http://www.divorce.usu.edu/files/uploads/lesson3.pdf
– 40-50% of first marriages in America end in divorce. 60% second marriages end in divorce.
– Lack of commitment 73%
– Infidelity 55%
– Not enough Marriage education 41%
– Abuse 29%
– 20-30% of people that use the internet use it for sexual purposes.
– 31%divorced men wished they tried harder to salvage their marriage.
– If a spouse comes from a divorced family, their risk of divorce is doubled.

http://m.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probability-of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer

2009-2011 stats from American Cancer Society states estimates that 43% men (averages around 1 in 2) have a risk of developing cancer. 37% (averages around 1 in 3) of women have a risk of developing cancer. Contrary to your outdated stars, Cancer is very “normal” in the 21st century.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/men-more-likely-to-leave-spouse-with-cancer/?_r=0
Illness is not caused by marriage as you stupidly stated. In burdens a marriage.
21% in this study marriages ended in separation or divorce when the wife became ill.

Michael Paterson-Seymour
Michael Paterson-Seymour
Monday, September 14, AD 2015 2:25am

Art Deco wrote, “most people who initiate divorce proceedings have an accumulation of small complaints.”
Parva si non fiunt quotidie – These things would be trifling, had they not to be endured daily (Pliny Minor, Ep. 3.1)

Michael Paterson-Seymour
Michael Paterson-Seymour
Monday, September 14, AD 2015 2:32am

Ezabelle wrote, “Most children are from a marriage.” Not first children.
In France, 44% of all births are out of wedlock, including 56% of the births of first children. I doubt that the figures for the US are very different

Karl
Karl
Monday, September 14, AD 2015 2:59am

GOOD HEAVENS, some of you sound like spouses heading for a divorce!

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Monday, September 14, AD 2015 3:09am

Thanks MPS- Not surprised about those figures in France- isn’t infidelity a cultural norm? I wouldn’t think the US is close to those figures…Id be surprised if it were…

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