Journalist Michael Walsh at American Greatness unloads on Cardinal Timothy Dolan:
So, what are you going to do about it, Your Eminence? Nothing: “Notable canon lawyers have said that, under canon law, excommunication is not an appropriate response to a politician who supports or votes for legislation advancing abortion,” he said in a statement.
This is not only wrong, it’s cowardly, which is what we’ve come to expect from the American bishops, who have been so busy trying to bury their gay clergy scandal without getting the hems of their skirts dirty that—since many of them have no skin in the game in more ways than one—they don’t have time for matters of faith and morals any more.
As I’ve often asked, what would Dagger John do?
In 1844, faced with a Nativist threat to burn down St. Patrick’s Old Cathedral (at Prince and Mott streets), John J. Hughes, the Irish-born bishop (and later first archbishop) of New York, gathered several thousand of his mostly Irish parishioners and deployed them around the church. Any attack on the cathedral, warned the man known as “Dagger John,” would be repulsed with force. The Nativists backed down.
During the Civil War, Hughes undertook a secret mission to Europe at the personal request of Abraham Lincoln, to rally support for the Union cause and keep Britain from entering the war on the side of the Confederacy. This he did in part by explaining the facts of life to the English: that they’d have no luck in raising troops in restive, famine-stricken Ireland to fight against America, and a great deal of trouble if they tried.
Those were the days of the two-fisted Irish clergy, who understood their dual American roles as both the spiritual leaders of their people and—when necessary—political figures as well. But those days are long gone (Cardinal O’Connor was the last of the line).
In other words, Archbishop Dolan and his confreres ought to ask themselves, What Would Dagger John Do? No need for mobs this time, just morals. But if they’re not going to vigorously defend their own faith, in a Church Militant sort of way, who will?
I wrote that in 2012, when the public threat to private morals came from another notional Catholic, Kathleen Sebelius, implementing Obamacare’s mandatory birth-control coverage at government gunpoint. Over the next two years, I wrote three more articles in this series, concluding with this:
So I’ll tell you what Dagger John would do. (For more on Dagger John Hughes, please consult the first three articles in this series here, here, and here.) He would simply refuse to comply no matter how the courts rule, announce that no Catholic institution will either obey the mandate or pay the fines, stand on the steps of St. Patrick’s Cathedral, and dare Eric Holder to arrest him in front of every TV camera in New York City.
With just a few changes of words, the same sentiment could and should be expressed today:
Ah, but the Dagger Johns of the Church Militant are long gone, and in their place have come the mincing social-justice warriors in cassocks and mitres, too fearful of man to be fearful of God, false to their faith and false to their mission. Andrew Cuomo and his gloating, murderous, ilk are bad enough, but these whited sepulchers are even worse, because they know better and don’t care.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
That’s Jesus talking, not me. The hell with them all.
Go here to read the rest. You know, Catholic clerics can still be heroic. One look at the epic stance of our clergy in Venezuela tells us that. I sometimes think that the greatest threat to the Catholic Church is not persecution but prosperity. What the Cardinal Dolans of the Church in America fail to understand is the materially fat years are over. Monsters like Cuomo, who now dominate the Democrat party, are anti-Christian to their core. What we saw under Obama was a fingernail to what the Church in America is likely to face once the Democrats have control of the Congress and the White House again. Cowards like Dolan will seek an accommodation and fail. Then they will flee, either abroad to new assignments, or into explicit apostasy, and to hell with their sheep. In the face of this disaster new shepherds will arise, worthy of that proud title bestowed by Christ on Himself and those leaders of His Church who emulate Him. As ever with our clergy, courage comes from faith, and where there is an absence of either, there will be a lack of both.
I’m just going to repeat myself from the previous thread.
Y’know, on the issue of excommunication the thought strayed into my head yesterday that part of what’s going on, long-game-wise (at least in NY) is Democrats want to get someone like Cuomo excommunicated over abortion in order to disqualify Catholics like Amy Coney Barrett (i.e. orthodox) from consideration for a seat on the Supreme Court. Bonus if it gets a sitting Catholic justice (Roberts or perhaps Kavanaugh) thinking about showing the “independence” of their judicial temperament.
Also, Archbishop Hughes had it easier than Cardinal Dolan. For one thing, his moral authority wasn’t compromised by the sex abuse scandal. For another he knew he was a cultural outsider, unlike Dolan, who’s a cultural insider being forced to the margins.
Hughes had it much harder in that most Catholic immigrants were considered to be scum, were usually the poorest of the poor, and the nation had a very long tradition of fervent anti-Catholicism. Dolan doesn’t have a tenth of the courage, or vision, of Dagger John. We are led today by milksops, idiots and worse.
So Dagger John would do what St. Paul did do in 1st Corinthians chapter 5:
3 For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Yes, Dagger John would deliver Andy Cuomo to Satan for the destruction of his flesh that his spirit may be saved on the Last Day. And just as St Paul let everyone know via his epistle what he was doing, Dagger John would likewise do the excommunication publicly perhaps even via a televised appearance. Though celibate and continent, St. Paul had far more testicular fortitude than most of our current episcopate. Apparently so did Dagger John.
“Democrats want to get someone like Cuomo excommunicated over abortion in order to disqualify Catholics like Amy Coney Barrett”
They don’t need that excuse. Believing Catholics are already excluded by almost all Democrat senators as they demonstrate time after time by their votes. It is time to fight back instead of playing endless mind games to excuse episcopal cowardice and indifference.
Committed Democrats don’t need that excuse. Most Americans still see it as religious bigotry. For how much longer . . .?
I’m all in favor of fighting back. Starting with getting our own house in order.
Another part of the the Archdiocese’s statement referenced by Walsh above says Cardinal Dolan prefers to follow the example of Cardinals O’Connor and Egan in speaking to pro-abortion politicians privately, rather than excommunicating them. I ask how that has worked for them? Can they name one politician who saw the error of his/her ways and stopped supporting abortion because of that? Christ tells us to go privately to a sinner, but He said to escalate if that didn’t work. (Matthew 18)
Likewise the Cardinal says he doesn’t want to let Cuomo use the excommunication as a badge of honor standing up to the Church. I don’t see how that would be worse than letting him claim he’s doing these things due to his faith.
“Hughes had it much harder in that most Catholic immigrants were considered to be scum, were usually the poorest of the poor, and the nation had a very long tradition of fervent anti-Catholicism.
Except that’s the power of weakness. The Catholic church in America Hughes represented didn’t have anything to lose.
Maybe the blessing that will come out of this scandal ridden age is that once again the Church will find its courage because it will have lost everything else.
I think it’s a disservice to clamor for excommunication, for it is arguably correct, whether we like it or not, that what Cuomo has done does not warrant excommunication, at least at present. This does not mean that other canonical penalties can’t be imposed. It is the sole emphasis on excommunication that has allowed Dolan and others to claim a loophole- they then say it is the only option, but since it may not apply, then they can’t do anything. It would be better to say- ‘yes, excommunication may not be applicable, at least at this time, but other canonical remedies can be taken, so you have no excuse in failing to do something.’
“for it is arguably correct”
No it isn’t. Throughout Church history excommunication has been freely wielded. What would Cuomo need to do, fire bomb a Church? No, the fact that neither he nor any other pro-abort politicians has been excommunicated is a testament to the raw cowardice that disgraces the current misleadership of the Church.
“The Catholic church in America Hughes represented didn’t have anything to lose.”
They had their lives to lose. Convents and churches were being burnt to the ground. Pardon me if I think that is somewhat more serious than the fact that Dolan would have to endure bad press and not being invited to fashionable parties. The man is a useless disgrace.
By lives to lose, you mean martyr’s crown to be gained, right? (I’m not sure if that goes more to your point or mine, btw.)
As for excommunication, I don’t think it’s especially effective in a non-Catholic culture. Particularly if we are going to insist, as the Church does, that its intent is medicinal rather than punitive.
Finally, I suspect cowardice, disgrace and misleadership in the hierarchy has been the norm rather than the exception throughout Church history.
Father Zuhlsdorf reports the Canonist Ed Peters evaluates the possibility of trying Cuomo for heresy:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2019/01/canonist-ed-peters-on-trying-gov-andrew-the-ghoul-cuomo-for-heresy-fr-z-makes-some-observations/
BTW, who cares if Dagger John or Cardinal Dolan had it harder? St. Paul in the midst of the bloody Roman Empire faced down sexual immorality and heresy with that sex pervert at Corinth and with Hymenaeus and Alexander. He even went to Rome to confront wicked Emperor Nero and gave his head for the Gospel! And many of the early Church Fathers under conditions that would flabbergast anyone from the 1800 to today (well, maybe not Dagger John) faced down and excommunicated all sorts of sex perverts and heretics. Indeed St. John exiled to the Isle of Patmos directly confronted such wickedness at the Church in Thyatira in Revelation 2:20-23:
20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jez′ebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and beguiling my servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her doings; 23 and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.
What the heck is wrong with us – laity and clergy? Have we forgotten what Sacred Scripture says? Isn’t Canon Law designed to implement the prescriptions of Holy Write? I am no Canon Lawyer, but my goodness! Where is the testicular fortitude of St. Paul and St. John?
“As for excommunication, I don’t think it’s especially effective in a non-Catholic environment.”
I believe it would be effective. Remember, excommunication is not for the non-Catholic but for one who professes his or her Catholicism. Cuomo has passed himself off as being a faithful catholic, quoting the Pope et al.
If such blatant dissent from Church teachings is tolerated over and over again, then the Catholic layman begins to be demoralized, seeing his or her faith denigrated and trampled on by these dissenters without any consequences from the Bishops. Dolan and other bishops need to know that their inaction and their lack of defense of the faith has alienated so many of the faithful.
If Cuomo so chose to present himself for communion, tell me who in New York would deny him from recieving? No priest of bishop that I know. However, let Dolan excommunicate him and all other pols who refuse to publicly abide by Church teaching perhaps it would encourage more of the clergy to defend the Faith, lead the people in their faith and let us know in so doing that they have our back and our Faith at heart and the True Faith is worth defending.
Excommunication is a mercy. In excommunicating catholic pols who dissent from church teachings in an egregious manner such as in abortion it makes plain to all of us the seriousness of this sin and that the continuation in this grave sinfulness will end with a lost soul. The non-catholic won’t care….but the Faithful Catholics will.
Oh, I think the non-Catholics will care. Those that are true to the Christian Faith like Franklin Graham will definitely care.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/franklin-graham-to-cardinal-dolan-take-a-moral-stand-against-gov.-cuomo
Protestants and Orthodox are not in communion with the Catholic Church, but we remain the great moral voice and they will listen. BTW, I refer to Evangelical and Pentecostal Protestants, not liberal mainstream denominations like ECUSA and PCUSA and the UMC who have embraced all this baby-murdering, sodomy-sanctifying feminist insanity. I don’t give a flying hoot what they think.
For those who claim excommuncation is clearly warranted, if you are not a canonist or able to cite canonical arguments to back it up, I would be careful. The standard is not what we wish to be done but what the law says/allows. It may be frustrating but as Thomas More said, we should even allow the devil his protection under the law lest we dispense with the law for the sake of desire. Again, this does not mean that there are not other canonical remedies available.
Responding by point (because I don’t have the time to write in nice reasoned-out paragraphs, sorry):
[1] (a) Dissent has been tolerated for more than 50 years now. (b) The worse dissenters are found among the clergy. (c) If we’re going to start somewhere (and I agree we must), let’s start there.
[2] (a) The Catholic layman is de-moralized. (b) He needs to be re-moralized (or confirmed & supported in his moralization) (c) That’s only going to happen with clear and consistent and repeated catechesis. (d) Public excommunication won’t advance (c). But (e), (c) will in time make (d) effective.
[3] I agree. (a) Past actions (that public dissent by clergy I mentioned) has already alienated many of the faithful (e.g. that primacy of [malformed] conscience crap). (b) Precipitous present action is liable to further alienate the already alienated. (c)Hence the importance of [2](c) in order to bring about [2](b) that the alienated might be reintegrated, and the discontented kept from becoming alienated.
“For those who claim excommuncation is clearly warranted, if you are not a canonist or able to cite canonical arguments to back it up,”
Look up Leander Perez David. I have been an attorney for 37 years. There are times for flyspecking in the law and times for no flyspecking. This is definitely not a time for flyspecking.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/two-bishops-call-for-excommunication-of-new-york-governor-over-vile-abortio
“Where Catholics are perceived not only as treating church teaching on abortion with contempt, by helping to multiple abortions by advocating legislation supporting abortion, or by making public funds available for abortion, bishops may decide that, for the common good, such Catholics must be warned that they are at risk of excommunication. If such actions persist, bishops may consider excommunication the only option.”
Cardinal John O’Connor, June 14, 1990
So what would I do were I Dolan?
1) Have a letter read out at every Mass explaining why Catholics cannot support abortion and Catholics in public life ought to work to end abortion rather than support it.
2) At every Mass from now until Cuomo leaves office, I’d have a prayer for the conversion of his heart and the hearts of all Catholics who support abortion added to the prayers of the faithful.
Three choices. One, they never were taught that one cannot peacefully co-exist with evil. Two, they were cowards. Three, they tacitly approved of the evils. .
WWOD – What Would Odysseus Do?
Regarding Dagger John and NYC. He was not alone nor unarmed. The Irish Catholic officers and men of the NY 69th Militia were in his diocese. I read that on one occasion, some of them showed up armed at St. Patrick’s cathedral, then located on Mulberry Street.
In the 1970’s or 1980’s, NYC’s homosexual aristocracy began marching their “Gay Pride” parade the wrong way (of course) down Fifth Avenue directly past St. Patrick’s Cathedral. I often thought if the archdiocese were in the charge of someone other than a coward or a eunuch, the men of the archdioceses would be called to pray the Rosary with the cardinal in front on the steps of the Cathedral.
On the steps of every Catholic Church in NY, Cuomo should be excommunicated. I have access to the script: Bell, Book and Candle.
Every sermon should end with: You cannot present yourself for Holy Communion if you vote Democrat.
Cowards like Dolan will seek an accommodation and fail.
No, cowards like Dolan will submit and be rewarded. They become useful traitors. For the Dolans of the episcopacy, the “J” in WWJD stands for Judas.
Can. 1369 A person who in a public show or speech, in published writing, or in other uses of the instruments of social communication utters blasphemy, gravely injures good morals, expresses insults, or excites hatred or contempt against religion or the Church is to be punished with a just penalty.
How is gloating publicly about infanticide NOT a public show or speech or other social communication that gravely injures good morals? How is ex-communication not a just penalty?
As for the efficacy of ex-communication in this day and age, Boniface at Unam Sanctam Catholicum has a pretty good explanation.
If I were Dolan, if not ex-communicate him, at a minimum I would instruct all parishes to not admit him for communion. Although I think Cuomo (p*ss be upon him) is in the diocese of Albany, so it should be that Squishop who ex-comms him.
Ed Peters thinks Can. 1369 is applicable to Cuomo, but that Can. 915, which also applies is the better route to take because it wouldn’t involve a juridical process.
So in addition to my public letter on why abortion is always a grave offense against faith and morals which Catholics in public life have a duty to work against, I’d include a private letter to every pastor of every parish in New York reminding them that Cuomo is under Can. 915 and cannot be permitted to Communicate.
Guys, this is really simple. WWSPD? What Would St. Paul Do? He would possibly write this letter (because he already wrote one like this 2000 years ago):
To: The Most Rev. Timothy Michael Dolan, Cardinal and Archbishop of New York
The Most Rev. Edward B. Scharfenberger, Bishop of Albany:
Your Eminence and Your Grace,
It is actually reported that there is murder among you, and of a kind that existed only in ancient days; for a Catholic Governor has signed in law the permissibility and acceptability of the murder of an infant at birth. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us, therefore, celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. If any one has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come! The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you. My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen.
Paul, an Apostle of our Lord Jesus Christ
Yeah, nice try but no. Cuomo isn’t the governor of the Catholic Commonwealth of New York. He isn’t even the Catholic governor of the (culturally) Christian state of New York. Which is why Can. 915 is more readily applied than Can. 1369.
The American bishops are, as a body, a bunch of cowards.
They have that in common with the majority of bishops throughout the history of the Church.