Contemporary Democrats, a good many of them, love America as much as motorists love high gas prices. If they decided to run in the unlikely event of an invasion it would be small loss to the country they despise. I do hope the poll is incorrect, but I fear it is not.
Democrats are tourists. They don’t love this country and are wedded to nothing more than their own comfort and well-being, as they perceive it. Lord knows you can’t count on them when the chips are down. The pollster also should have asked how many would take the quisling option in the event of invasion. I doubt there would be any surprises in the responses.
I want to know your opinion, Donald.
When USSR fell, and later Russia wanted to join NATO, why did we/they say no?
Is this how it will always be, Russia bad?
In the end, we have been utter fools.
When USSR fell, and later Russia wanted to join NATO, why did we/they say no?
The whole purpose of Nato was to protect Western Europe from Russian aggression. Actually there was an attempt to work with Russia through Nato.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93NATO_relations
The Russians never actually asked for membership in Nato, and the entire issue became academic once Putin rose to power in 1998 since the wolf had no intention in joining the sheep.
The purpose of NATO which was formed in ‘49 was to stop USSR from advancing communism in Europe. There is no USSR anymore. There is no communism in Russia but what is like a dictatorship. On the side, what our own govt has done during the pandemic is very much like a dictatorship.
I mean, I thought the end was near when I woke up and had empathy for Russia. Especially when, for a day, I also agreed with Pope Francis. He changed and fully supports Ukraine.
Wolf, bear, sheep snake or dragon, we are absolute fools to go to war w Russia. And, we would do the same d*** thing if Russia parked Missiles at our border. Btw, the list of Russian allies is growing including South Africa now, I’m sure Cuba and Mexico.
We are fools and have been played by our own govt.
Note the lack of actual counter-arguments to the answers against her prior statements.
On the side, what our own govt has done during the pandemic is very much like a dictatorship.
Ah yes, you can tell because of the dissidents dying of radiation poisoning in foreign hospitals.
And folks disappearing.
And how it’s all run from the Feds, rather than on a state by state basis, so Iowa is no freer than Oregon.
…wait, none of those are true.
Wolf, bear, sheep snake or dragon, we are absolute fools to go to war w Russia.
Because standing by as they invaded, and killed off, the neighbors worked so wonderfully last time.
And, we would do the same d*** thing if Russia parked Missiles at our border.
Ah, the old “they both push old ladies” thing, pretending that the guys who keep invading the neighbors, shelling them, violating that whole “military needs to be in uniform” thing, is the same as the folks who usually show up in military force because you’re having a natural disaster.
There is a massive difference between a country that steals from the neighbors and a country that spends millions, every year, on foreign aid.
The Democrat aspect of the poll reminds me of General Norman Schwarzkopf’s famous analogy regarding going to war without France.
Why wait until the missiles fall and the soy lattes run out, dudes, dudes see, and dudexes? Run now. I’ll wave.
Dudesses. Big Tech and its Autocorrupt again.
MRSOPEY, the Russians did park missiles in our backyard, Cuba. That country is only 90 miles from Florida.
I don’t know the answer to the current Russian-Ukraine situation, but I do know that the US is always for the underdog. I think one could classify the Ukraine as being the underdog when the country has been invaded by Russian troops and their cities bombed, civilians murdered. Ukrain was not.aggressive; has not asked to be in NATO (nor has NATO asked them to join). Ukraine wants to be an independent nation.
Putin is a bully. If he takes Ukraine, then stand by because he’ll want the Eastern Block back in the fold. The Europeans get it; that’s why traditionally neutrals Sweden and Finland are asking to join NATO now.. Switzerland for centuries neutral is freezing Russian assets.
Peace through Strength, yeah and we’ve got Biden.
Pray.
The national average gas price rose from $3.84 on Friday [3 March] to $4.06 yesterday to $4.17 today.
I’ve got it!!!
Don’t drive for 15 days to flatten the curve.
OT Greta Thunberg has Ukrainian blood on her tiny, dyslexic hands.
Foxfire, the massive difference is instead of helping Ukraine become a neutral state we kept saying they would join NATO which would be an aggressive move to Russia. And our presence is very known.
March 17 2021 Biden calls Putin a killer
March 24th Zelinsky says he is taking back Crimea
March 25th Russia moves troops to border
April 13th Biden calls back ships from Black Sea and decides a summit w Putin is necessary
Now, we want to fight w Russia or encourage Ukraine to remain neutral and negotiate w Russia?
I do not support a war w Russia.
Lady, “the guy I want to mug might be able to fight back” is NOT AN AGRESSIVE MOVE.
Stop acting like I’m supposed to think that resisting assault and robbery is morally identical to commission of assault and robbery.
Foxfire, would Russia have moved to their border if they had not said they were taking back Crimea and w US ships on way to Black Sea?
It’s always, Russia bad – everyone that has a “democracy “ good.
Zelensky is right that America already has blood on its hands bc he just revealed what Putin thought, we were behind them.
So, we go in and take out The Russia forces, then what? We complain when Russia sets up missiles in Cuba or Mexico? We bomb the hell out of Cuba and Mexico? Then what?
(I’m glad during the pandemic you were not forced to take a drug against your will, silenced on social platforms if you questioned it, fired, or canceled. In my book, that is akin to dictatorship. Esp when evidence is coming out that Fauci used our money to develop it in China to begin w)
Yes, the guys INVADING THE NEIGHBORS AND KILLING PEACEFUL PEOPLE TO TAKE THEIR STUFF are, repeatedly, identified as “bad.”
Morality isn’t based off of “ok, now it’s YOUR turn to be called bad,” morality is based off of what people do.
Invading the neighbors to take their stuff, then spending most of the next decade attacking them, violating your agreements, and then going into a full-on invasion again after you have killed several thousand of the people because they have something you want is BAD.
I am not sure why you have such a hard time figuring out that killing people and taking their stuff is bad, but I am really, really glad that I am already armed and able to offer effective resistance when someone decides that I have something that they may want.
So, Putin invades and takes Crimea. Zelensky says he wants to take it back … and the language Zelensky used is the aggressive move in your eyes? Not the annexation of Crimea?
… And FYI, the Russians DID put missiles in Cuba already, we didn’t invade or bomb the hell out of them. We didn’t annex the english speaking neighborhoods and call them “separatist states”. We held negotiations.
Well lady (animal?) you will then have to tell me how the poor innocent Ukrainians justify cutting off major fresh water to Crimea and causing people to die. How did that get justified? Russia bad, so Crimea no water?
I can see why Hitchens took a pass because of the hypocrisy of all this.
Russia filed that in court over them cutting off their water.
I do not support a war with Russia. I pray the papal envoy can talk Zelensky in to negotiating.
:polite smile: You attempt to insult me, in a very clear violation of manners.
I grossly flatter you, in keeping with the polite fiction required by manners.
Now, on to the response.
Progress! You’re admitting that Crimea was invaded and taken over by Russia!
Not much, but it’s progress.
That you are regurgitating Russian claims as fact, and then exaggerating them, not so much of a good thing– and that you think that someone who has property taken from them should keep paying the utility bills for years is frankly ludicrous– but you did show some hint of recognizing that RUSSIA INVADED AND TOOK OVER UKRANIAN LAND.
AGAIN.
You are also apparently horrified that years after Russian take-over, there was water shortage from the attacked party not providing water, and this many-years-lead-on shortage is supposedly causing death– but actually shooting at folks, nah, that’s just neighborly. IT’s what one does.
Well, if one is Russia… or any other criminal thug type country that thinks they can get away with it.
Again:
Invading the neighbors, killing them, and taking their stuff is bad.
Being targeted by someone for this action does not oblige one to take the attack, nor does defending oneself from such unjust aggression make one morally similar to the raiders. ]
No matter how much you really, really want Russia’s behavior to be accepted.
the poor innocent Ukrainians justify cutting off major fresh water to Crimea
Eight years ago. I think the occupying power, having voluntarily assumed control of the territory against the better judgment of the government in Kiev, is the one bearing the obligation here.
Oh please, do stop responding!
I am not going to take the war propaganda being fed 24/7 and not question it. I’m going to question a narrative that’s pushed esp when it concerns war. We have waged wars for over 20 years and it needs to end. If we can’t help countries negotiate w their neighbors, we need to stay the hell out!
I do not support a war with Russia.
I believe we hurt the Ukrainians more than we help them.
Has anyone suggested armed conflict with Russia? It’s not an either/or, fight or believe Putin.
I believe we hurt the Ukrainians more than we help them.
If only those darned Ukrainians would stay quiet while their country is being raped by the Russians.
Oh please, do stop responding!
No.
I am not going to take the war propaganda being fed 24/7 and not question it. I’m going to question a narrative that’s pushed esp when it concerns war.
Russia invaded Ukraine and offered preposterous excuses for so doing. That’s not ‘propaganda’. Neither side denies Russia invaded and Putin’s excuse speech is available for your perusal.
We have waged wars for over 20 years and it needs to end.
We waged a war in Afghanistan for 20 years and one in Iraq for 9 years. This wasn’t done gratuitously.
If we can’t help countries negotiate w their neighbors, we need to stay the hell out!
They don’t need our help ‘negotiating’ and if outstanding issues could have been resolved with ‘negotiating’, they would have been. Just to make it clear, your prescription expresses a categorical preference for Actor A coercing Actor B over the United States coercing Actor A, without regard to any aspect of the particular situation.
I do not support a war with Russia.
You need to take that up with Adam Kinzinger. Your remark is non sequitur on this thread.
I believe we hurt the Ukrainians more than we help them.
Because they’d be much better off if the Russian military stomped all over them and Russia subjugated them. Thanks for your precisely considered evaluation.
Oh please, do stop responding!
After you, lady.
You say false, malicious or frankly horrifying things, and want everyone to stand here and let you excuse invading the neighbors so you can take their stuff as something that people should just accept as being their fault for… considering maybe being able to exercise self defense?
The only one spewing “war propaganda” is the folks trying to insist that poooooor Russia is a victim who is forced, just forced, to go kill people and take their stuff.
I do not support a war with Russia
Your arguments, if taken seriously, make it much more likely. Russia is never going to feel safe, because the threat comes from within. Excusing, supporting and enabling them in their assaults on the neighbors is not going to make war with Russia less likely, just increase the innocent bodies on the way.
But, given your excusing of the invasion and annexation of Crimea, and flat ignoring of the continued assaults on the Ukraine since then, you really aren’t concerned with that.
Putin is double plus bad! War is peace!
Rah rah rah! There, firefox. Did I say it correctly? Ukrainians double plus unprovoked.
We have been utter fools and have caused Ukraine to be destabilized. The insane inability to self reflect, asses and see where we have created problems is astounding.
I do not support a war with Russia.
Your inability to rationally support your claims is noted.
We have been utter fools and have caused Ukraine to be destabilized
Keep your confessions confined to yourself, lady.
I have no responsibility for Putin’s choice to, again, invade a neighbor– no more than I do for any other murderous act he’s committed or ordered.
And you have yet to justify how having the historic misfortune of being an escaped slave of the Soviet Union means one can, at the whim of Putin, be guilty of provoking assault for daring to think of defense.
We have been utter fools and have caused Ukraine to be destabilized.
The Ukraine is neither more nor less unstable than it has been for 20 years.
The insane inability to self reflect, asses and see
Thought of looking in a mirror?
You are wrong. When I show what led to this you say, but that doesn’t justify Putin from invading a country! A little person provoking a bigger person doesn’t excuse the bigger person from acting! Unacceptable- double plus bad!
I have backed up my claims w Mearsheimer videos but that, I guess, you don’t agree w him which is fine. He had been saying years ago if we don’t stop this is going to happen and we need to focus on China. It’s too late. We have cemented the alliance of Russia and China.
I really think we have a very deep hatred for Russia.
I do wish you all the Peace of Christ.
Here is the link again
https://youtu.be/ppD_bhWODDc
You are wrong.
You say things, but you cannot manage a coherent defense of them– just a lot of screaming, excusing of attacks, making accusations that are further out than even the Russians made, and been quite generous with making accusations against others which better fit you.
Your claims have been refuted– and you rush off to a new one, then demand that we build your argument for you by watching a video.
When you try to make your own arguments, they are are at best nonsense– more often, they are evil. Then you go and make silly attempts at strawmen, just for bonus points.
Oh, mustn’t forget the really lame attempts at mockery as argument, as well.
None of this supports your declared positions.
“Democrats are tourists.“
This is unfair to tourists. Most tourists have at least SOME respect for the place they are visiting. The
Democrats don’t.
Fox, you haven’t refuted my claims. That is not how Russia acts nor views what hUkraine and the US have done. We view it as Ukraine has a right to be a sovereign nation with our help and NATO. Russia has said those are unacceptable many times. We keep egging them on. And they will pay the consequences for it.
So, you can scream all you want, but you are viewing things thru rights (American way)isn’t gonna help Ukraine at all nor our relationship with Russia. Unless the goal is to completely ostracize them (Russia) because they do not think as we do.
That is as condensed as I can put it.
If you want to learn more, watch the video. If not, Putin super plus bad. Rah rah rah
Fox, you haven’t refuted my claims.
You’re going to have to make coherent claims if someone is to refute them. Emotional displays do not cut it.
That is not how Russia acts nor views what hUkraine and the US have done. We view it as Ukraine has a right to be a sovereign nation with our help and NATO. Russia has said those are unacceptable many times. We keep egging them on. And they will pay the consequences for it.
IOW, it is ‘unacceptable’ for a territory containing 44 million people, which has been sovereign for 30 years, which was declared sovereign with the consent of Russia and the other former union republics, to act as a sovereign republic and be treated as one by other countries. You’re conceding to Russia a franchise that is claimed and exercised by no other country in the world. Yes, we are encouraging them to defend themselves. Defending yourself contra an attacker is a normal thing to do. We really do not benefit from greasing the skids for Russia to conquer territory (which they did during the period running from 1918-22 and which they did from 1939-45). They’re done here, the next place whose sovereignty will be deemed ‘unacceptable’ will be Moldova’s. After that, the Baltic states.
So, you can scream all you want, but you are viewing things thru rights (American way)isn’t gonna help Ukraine at all nor our relationship with Russia. Unless the goal is to completely ostracize them (Russia) because they do not think as we do. That is as condensed as I can put it. If you want to learn more, watch the video. If not, Putin super plus bad. Rah rah rah
Your real problem is that you’re the sort of person who is cruel to the kind and kind to the cruel, because it’s easier that way.
Art, even in Putin’s declaration of war with Ukraine they outline the NATO expansion as being one of the most troubling for them and they have been repeatedly ignored. Then there is the coupe.
Our own political analysts saw this coming.
But it’s the American way I suppose.
Taking these countries down the primrose path is the bloody American way. I think it’s about to come home to roost.
I think you can add Turkey to their alliance now
MRSOPEY, Don’t blame me. I voted for Trump. I’m open minded. Convince me how that stuff you cite justifies the horrors [including mines and shelling of his identified escape corridors to concentration camps] Putin is inflicting on Ukrainian women and children.
One thing History will note [Mac recently quoted Clemenceau – The Tiger of France – after WWI]: Ukraine did not invade Russia.
Back to the topic.
This [an evil ’empire’ is murdering our country] is happening in America. It is not a what-if.
The first thing we do let’s shoot all the Democrats.
Art, even in Putin’s declaration of war with Ukraine they outline the NATO expansion as being one of the most troubling for them and they have been repeatedly ignored.
The Ukraine is not a member of NATO. They demanded NATO expel 10 states who joined between 1997 and 2004. They made this demand because it will be easier to bully and invade these 10 states if they are not members of NATO. That’s why the 10 states in question wanted to join NATO. The events of the past several weeks have proven their anxieties were well founded.
Then there is the coupe.
What coupe [sic.]?
Our own political analysts saw this coming.
Let’s see a quotation, sister, in context and with a time stamp.
Q&A Political Scientist John Mearsheimer in The New Yorker 3/1/2022
Looking at the situation now with Russia and Ukraine, how do you think the world got here?
“
I think all the trouble in this case really started in April, 2008, at the nato Summit in Bucharest, where afterward nato issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of nato. The Russians made it unequivocally clear at the time that they viewed this as an existential threat, and they drew a line in the sand.”
For the rest :
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine
He has a vid of one of his lectures from 14 I believe that outline same. It’s on YouTube for now. Twitter evidently went Ape sh** crazy over also claiming he was spreading Russia propaganda. Nope. He’s been saying it for a very long time.
No one is stopping the Boomer readers of this blog from getting on a plane and heading to Ukraine to support the fight. We wish you the best. Art, you won’t be missed here or anywhere else on the internet. Better you go than we lose another 20 year old to another war.
No one is stopping the Boomer readers of this blog from getting on a plane and heading to Ukraine to support the fight.
Brian, do tell us how you plan to pretend the rest of the world does not exist and live happily ever after.
Something you missed from the survey, Don.
Link: https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3838
Scroll down to:
8. If you were in the same position as Ukrainians are now, do you think that you would stay and fight or leave the country?
Below the first percentage is “stay and fight” the second is “leave the country.” (any remainder is don’t know)
People 65+? 52% – 37%
Ages 50-64? 66% – 28%
Ages 35-49? 57% – 37%
Ages 18-34? 45% – 48%
Just let that sink in about our military aged youth.
Youth at any time are often reluctant to fight Nate until the issue arises. At the Oxford Union Society Debate in 1933 the resolution: “This House will under no circumstances fight for its King and country,” passed at 275 votes for the motion and 153 against it. More than a few of those voting in favor of the resolution would later die fighting for King and Country during World War II.
Having been young and dumb myself in the distant past, I always cut some slack to the young and dumb among us.
Donald, you mean the FJB group is going to rally around a man who locked them up for 2 year, masked them, forced them to take a vaccine in order to go to school or work or be in the military? That saw their parents and grandparents die alone in hospitals from a virus that was funded by the US? (Calling Fauci)
THAT group? Heh. Maybe they can be the one to get rid of this corruption and not get us nuked.
Fox, you haven’t refuted my claims.
Your assertions were answered, to which you responded by either ignoring the response and changing the subject, or repeating the same thing.
By the standard of a claim being answered with the same degree of evidence as it was originally supported by, I have refuted your claims. All it takes is saying “no.” Additional facts and rational arguments from those disagreeing with your assertions are going above and beyond the standard you set for yourself.
On the poll– I really must wonder how many people don’t metaphorically slam the phone down when they get random calls. I know that I stopped wasting my time years ago.
Quinnipiac stopped calling after the first “please remove me from your list of numbers” request. Pew required me filing an FCC complaint.
I expect people to rally around the country if it were invaded.
My Bride loves taking polls. I think she enjoys screwing up their demographics.
My Bride loves taking polls. I think she enjoys screwing up their demographics.
:laughs: Good on her!
What would you like the US to do, Don? Really, tell us in detail. Should more Americans die in yet another worthless military engagement? Practically no one under 50 has any loyalty to the country, for good reason. After two years of medicinal rapists ordering us how to live, most of us could not care less whether the US continues as a political entity or not. I sure don’t.
Don’t be shy. Tell us in detail exactly what the US should do and why any American should die in order for Ukraine to be part of NATO.
Really, this is your personal Covid-19, and it’s pathetic.
Practically no one under 50 has any loyalty to the country, for good reason.
Well, that is a good way to identify you as unworthy of response.
Thanks ever so for your mind-reading of the folks that so flooded recruitment centers after 9/11 that they are still having trouble shaking out the requirements, because they were spoiled for choice.
Right up there with idea that the folks reading this blog are “Boomers,” or the usual chickenhawk nonsense.
Really, this is your personal Covid-19, and it’s pathetic.
Really, your desperation and lack of content is showing, and it’s pathetic.
What would you like the US to do, Don?
Make sure that Putin’s invasion of Ukraine fails.
Practically no one under 50 has any loyalty to the country,
I am sure that you are speaking only for yourself Brian. If not, God help this country.
“Don’t be shy. Tell us in detail exactly what the US should do”
Some of it we are already doing. Crushing the economy of Russia. Giving the latest tecbnology and weaponry to the Ukrainians.
I would also foster volunteers willing to fight against the Russians. I would give the Ukrainians enough drones to flood the air space of Ukraine with attack drones to destroy Russian columns. I would engage in a cyber war against Russia. Back channel I would advise the Russian oligarchs that this entire situation can be resolved by Russia withdrawing from Ukraine. I would give the Ukrainians access to our intelligence on Russian troop movements.
Really, this is your personal Covid-19, and it’s pathetic.
The only thing pathetic Brian is your inability to distinguish between two completely different events.