Burn of the Day

I think only a minority of soldiers thought they were fighting for or against slavery.  But I think few soldiers would have denied that without slavery there would have been no War.  Slavery was the poison in the American experiment, which is why almost all the Founding Fathers thought, and hoped, that it would peacefully die out.

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David WS
David WS
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 6:14am

“In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.“

Would thousands of black men fight and die to make white men free?
Hopefully. The reverse, we know.

Sandy O'Seay
Sandy O'Seay
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 6:28am

The idea that the Civil War was fought to “free the slaves” is so entirely incorrect as to begger the imagination. The War was fought because the Southern states left the union, as was their constitutional right, and Lincoln would have none of it, so he invaded the South. See the Battle of Bull Run Number One. Sumter was a minor skirmish in which no soldier was killed. Slavery was part of the equation, of course, but the idea of young Southern boys fighting so that the Big Plantation Owner on the hill could keep his slaves is rediculous. As is the idea of young Northern boys, most of whom had never seen a slave or knew what one was, hopped on their white horses and rode down South to free them. The more I read about the Civil War, the more I leave it at Lincoln’s feet.

Bill
Bill
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 8:06am

OK Sandy. Go ahead and read the Confederate Constitution. It’s all about State’s Rights, except for slavery. That’s enshrined as applying to all States. And why did they secede from the Union? Slavery. Pure and simple. No slaves, no secession, no war.

Did the average Confederate soldier think he was fighting to keep slaves? I think that’s debatable, but that those same soldiers elected people to office who held that view would indicate that it was certainly popular enough to carry the day. The average US soldier wasn’t and ardent anti-fascist in the 1940s or anti-communist in the 1950s, or broadly capable or interested in debating the finer points, but probably enough so to be representative of the broader populace.

BPS
BPS
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 9:06am

One often hears “Only a small percentage of southerners owned slaves”. That may be true (25% of white southern households–i.e.this included some soldiers who fought in the Civil War who didn’t own slaves outright, but whose older family members did). But culturally, it became the mark of prosperity in the South, even among free black people. In the South, owning slave became something “successful people” aspired to.
Another thing–the Federal Union wasn’t a “club”, but something a state applied for and was voted into. It seems to me, if a state wanted to leave, it’s US congressmen submitted a bill for vote by the whole congress to be “voted out”.

The Bruised Optimist
The Bruised Optimist
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 9:13am

When one people insist on telling another what they must do, especially when such demands are against their inclinations or interests, friction is inevitable.

Did slavery cause the war, or did the abolitionist movement? Asked a different way, did the political and moral pressure applied by abolitionists make peace untenable?

Dale Price
Dale Price
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 10:03am

Abolitionism was still very much the minority opinion in the North in 1861. The majority view was the strange sounding “anti-slavery but anti-abolition.”

The typical northener did not want slavery to spread, but didn’t have any intention to interfere with it where it was rooted. Plus, they were only slightly less hostile to the idea of a flood of freedmen than Southerners were.

However, the implacable demands and victories of “the Slave Power” driving the 1850s, which included a strong fugitive slave law, the abolition of the Missouri Compromise with the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the 19th Century’s Roe v. Wade, Dred Scott v. Sandford, aggravated the hell out of the typical Northerner. After all those victories, the South decided it would break up the Union because it had finally lost a presidential election. With the firing on Fort Sumter, the typical Northerner’s patience broke. And as the war went on, made him more amenable to abolition. Meanwhile, the South hung on to the peculiar institution despite the loud hints from their foreign friends that they would receive the recognition they craved. The leadership of the Confederacy would rather the CSA die than give up slavery. And so die it did.

Sandy O'Seay
Sandy O'Seay
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 1:43pm

Mr. McClarey, you may be right, as H.L. Mencken used to respond. We’re not arguing the moral evil of slavery, about which we can all agree. My argument is that the war was not about “freeing the slaves,” but “saving the union.” Lincoln himself said that many times. But, suppose Lincoln had not invaded the South and had, instead, let the Confederacy go its way. There would have been no horror of war and no 600,000 dead soldiers. Most historians agree (see Dr. James Robertson) that slavery would have ended as a matter of course. I would argue that fomer slaves would have been integrated into society much better and that there would have been no Jim Crow South, at least not as we have known it. There had to have been a better way than Civil War.

GregB
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 2:17pm

After the Civil War the Old South enacted the Jim Crow laws which reversed as much as the Old South could the gains made by the freed slaves. This along with the points made by Don and Dale undercuts the states rights arguments. Slavery was an open abridgement of the all men are created equal assertion in the Declaration of Independence. That is what made the issue so contentious and poisonous.
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Even in modern times the H1-B visas historically gives the employer control over the immigrants’ work permit. Indentured servitude, a kinder, gentler form of slavery as it were. The spirit of slavery lives on in the way illegal immigrants are used as cheap, exploitable labor.

Ezabelle
Ezabelle
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 2:36pm

“Slavery was the poison in the American experiment” it was unfortunately.

And the shame is still being used by sections to excuse political violence and fuel racial divide.

The late Charlie Kirk challenged black college kids repeatedly about the inferiority complex they still carried (and has been drummed into them), and he said nothing prevents a person from advancing their situation to a better one. The colour of one’s skin is irrelevant. This is true. Only victimhood prevents this.

To be fair, Slavery is a tale as old as time. I listened to a British Catholic human rights solicitor talk on Radio Maria the other day. He said current figures on Modern Slavery in UK is around 20,000. And that’s only the ones they were able to count! There has always been a group of people in the world who used another group of people as subjects, against their will, to perform tasks in order to advance themselves. It goes as far back as the Old Testament.

Penguins Fan
Penguins Fan
Friday, October 31, AD 2025 4:36pm

It was about slavery. It was always about slavery. Slavery was an institution in the South and they were never going to give it up peacefully. Free labor is what the plantation owners wanted, what they had and what they were going to keep come hell or high water.

Advanced in technology 30-40 years later (farm tractors and other farming implements) made slavery obsolete, but human beings are stubborn. Southerners – the English based aristocracy and the mountain folk who descended from Scot immigrants were never going to listen to anyone.

When one looks at the English treatment of the Irish and Catholics for centuries and the combativeness of the Scots….a fight was inevitable, and so was the outcome. I highlighted these examples because the aristocrats were mostly English in ancestry and the hillbillies were mostly ethnically Scot.

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