The actions of Hamas were so demonic that I fear this is a time when fighting it out is the only option. Discuss. These usual Open Threat rules apply: be concise and be charitabfe. I will leave off the rule of be amusing on this occasion.
Don Hopes He Is Wrong Open Thread
- Donald R. McClarey
Donald R. McClarey
Cradle Catholic. Active in the pro-life movement since 1973. Father of three, one in Heaven, and happily married for 43 years. Small town lawyer and amateur historian. Former president of the board of directors of the local crisis pregnancy center for a decade.
The only rational outcome is the destruction of Hamas. And for the same reasons the Nazi regime in Germany could not be allowed to stand. By their actions Hamas has lost all claim to being a legitimate government. It is irrational to pray for peace and expect Hamas to remain. Once was removed, then there will be the peace, we hope, that everyone prays for. Removal of Hamas and their utter destruction is a necessary condition for peace. Let us hope it is also sufficient. Hamas has repeatedly said they have no interest in peace. Their core value, ultimate goal, and primary reason for their existence is the destruction of israel. Decades of attempts to sway them from that goal have failed. It is time to recognize that any future attempts at achieving peace with Israel are impossible to attain because Hamas has no interest in that. The only piece can come from the destruction of Hamas.
Weeeelllll…let’s see. The very brief version is we in the West seek general peace; Hamas doesn’t care. Israel will, sooner or later, act vigorously to quell the ruckus in Gaza and elsewhere. We hope this fracas will not develop into a regional war. That will take longer to settle.
A more involved analysis indicates that Hamas will “play dirty”–and is, taking hostages, targeting civilians, and the like. In consequence, Israel will have little choice but to treat the situation as a typical war. Within their own bounds. Some of this will ultimately be almost as brutal–from a peacetime perspective–as the Hamas terrorists. In consequence, some here in the West who consider themselves “enlightened” will portray Israel as the culprit, accusing the Israeli nation of having stolen the lands from the Palestinians in the wake of World War II. They may not try to suggest the Israel should surrender itself to its neighbors, yet they will be insistent that the Israeli government has been the bad guy, they should give something more to the Palestinian cause.
..Never mind how the Palestinians have started most of the fights since 1947.
I heard an indication yesterday the Iranian troops may be physically present and assisting Hamas. If that’s true, …a very ugly situation already may turn even more ugly very quickly. Iran, effectively run by Shia(?) mullahs, has little more interest in “Western peace” than does Hamas.
All in all, Israel will probably ultimately win out. There may be a great deal more blood spilled by all before we get there though.
sigh And the Islamic and Arabic factions (there is a difference) in the area still will detest their Jewish-state neighbors.
I’m not sure if eliminating Hamas will do anything in the long run, after all, Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza, isn’t it? The people have spoken. As if that wasn’t enough evidence, the population’s celebrating the carnage (once again) should be enough to convince. The next Hamas will rise and take their place. The destruction of Israel will continue to be the goal, if for no other reason than that goal is well financed.
Telling the people to flee to Egypt during this offensive was a smart move IMO. Hamas’ emulation of Israel’s humanity by warning the inhabitants of Ashkelon before raining down hundreds of missiles on them indicates that they realize some PR work might be needed after their deliberate, overt, publicly broadcasted, inhuman barbarism … I’m sickened by how little it (the PR) was needed among western liberal elites. One would think that ideology would crumble under the weight of what we’ve witnessed Hamas do (after all, they wanted us to see it! They’re proud of their actions. They’re considered heroes among their own people because of it … But no, so many on the left continue to defend them.
is the democratically elected government of Gaza, isn’t it?
In 2006. Hamas hasn’t held an election since.
It’s hard to follow the Christian doctrine of loving one’s enemies. What is love in this instance? Wishing the best (as an act of will) for them. And the best for Hamas and all radical Muslims is that they repent and become Christians. I’m reminded of Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s prayer for Madonna: that she converts and goes to a secluded nunnery.
Israel has undertaken about every 4-5 years an operation contra Gaza to destroy their artillery pieces and infiltration tunnels. My guess would be that the next 90 days will see a more elaborate version of that, wherein the physical infrastructure and membership of Hamas will be liquidated much as Black September was liquidated. The big bosses are hiding out in Qatar right now; it wouldn’t surprise me if a few months hence everyone working under them had received a bullet in the head or chest.
The Arab bosses were offered a deal in 2008 and in 2000 which they wouldn’t take. (Hamas among them never wanted a deal of any kind). The kvetching and whining by their chatterati (and assorted dupes and clowns) is disgusting.
“It’s hard to follow the Christian doctrine of loving one’s enemies”
I have to wonder these days — I know it’s a temptation and that others have probably dealt with it before, but it haunts me nonetheless — whether in time of all-out war or persecution, when dealing with implacable enemies that (to borrow a phrase from The Terminator) “can’t be bargained with, can’t be reasoned with, doesn’t feel pity, remorse, or fear, and absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead”, perhaps Christianity becomes a “luxury belief” that we can’t afford? All that talk about forgiveness and mercy and the just war doctrine sounds awfully hollow when dealing with something like that. How do people lead holy and charitable lives in a world where they literally cannot trust anyone and someone could be trying to kill them at any moment? And please don’t talk to me about martyrdom, I beginning to think it’s overrated — if everyone becomes a martyr then your faith and your culture won’t survive, and frankly I’m more interested in survival right now. I know this sounds awful but I had to get it off my chest.
The passage in Genesis about man being made in the image and likeness of God brings a spirit of conversion to my mind, but man has free will and must make choices. If a flicker of the divine is in a Hamas terrorist or was in Himmler in the day, and there was obvious damage that was going to be carried out by Himmler or the terrorist, then the merciful action is damage control. Stopping the threat even by means of death since it’s an defensive act.
A time for war?
Yes. A season of blood shed instigated by those who’s God is a Master. A cruel master, and not by those of a loving Father.
Iran being involved as an alli of Hamas isn’t a far reach, so it wouldn’t surprise me of boots on the ground in this most recent assault on Israel.
Biden’s administration sickens me.
Ally….sorry.
I hope and pray that Don is wrong as well. Is there ever a time when prayer and fasting is inappropriate for people of God? Are we closer to the reality of violence and hate than the Patriarch of Jerusalem? Maybe we should take our cue from the faithful who are actually in the midst of the evils, which we all justly decry.
2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish what Am′alek did to Israel in opposing them on the way, when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Am′alek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”
4 So Saul summoned the people, and numbered them in Tela′im, two hundred thousand men on foot, and ten thousand men of Judah.
It is rather interesting that militant Islam and those who claim it as the basis for their actions, is the longest continuous movement of conquest on the planet. Equally interesting is that nations in opposition have never realized the necessity to unite in purpose and to bring some level of neutralization to the most violent parts of this phenomenon. This, a sort of macabre version of Groundhog Day.
Maybe we should take our cue from the faithful who are actually in the midst of the evils, which we all justly decry.
I don’t think so. Too often they parrot the line of the Palestinian Muslims, whether out of fear or conviction. In either case I think they are badly mistaken.
I’m still yet to understand why Iran, who is funding Hamas and who funds Hezbollah, has avoided military assault. I’m afraid until they are taught a valuable lesson, the destroy-Israel flame will just keep re-igniting. Punishing Iran would be beneficial to the region. I live for the day this happens.
Nevertheless, the fact that Netanyahu has bi-partisan support to go at it with unrestrained assault tells you that this will not end until Hamas is defeated. Israel full force needs to happen, not just for Israel but for the region, to defeat fundamental Islam and for Christianity in ME. Islam needs to one day diminish.
The other thing- Harvard, and numerous associations within Harvard, have publicly thrown their support behind Hamas recently. Not just Harvard, but many left leaning elite Universities globally, and even in my neck of the woods. These are schools, who are churning out future corporate and political leaders, are in no uncertain terms supporting terrorism! This is unheard of. Who would have thought we would live to see mainstream society supporting terrorism?!! The frightening thing is that these students will bring this ideology into organisations they will one day lead, and our children will have to work in. If anything, defeating Hamas into a mound of rubble is necessary in order to send a message that terrorism will and must be crushed. There is not other way.
While I grieve for the victims I also grieve for the level of civilization I thought we had. The more things change the more they stay the same. Things that would not surprise me now include: sleeper cells being activated across the west, US being pulled into a war in Israel then trying to keep up the Ukraine game, while US busy with Israel, Russia waltzing into Ukraine, China snatching Taiwan and poof new world order and US is officially bankrupt and a 3rd world country. Buckle up folks it’s going to be a bumpy ride, thankfully we know the outcome it’s gonna be tough in the meantime though
If we wonder why this is all happening, we must remember that God has given us free will, and this entails that men can choose to do evil. That evil is not from God but from men. Presumably, and this is what we can and should pray for, is that overall God’s will be done and the dark patch of our present time in the picture of the Grand Design will be superseded by the bright light of another time.
7 OCT 1571. Catholics noted the anniversary of The Battle of Lepanto last week. The Ottoman Turks had more galleys and more men than the Holy Alliance of European Christians. The Christians won the day. In part due to the Rosary being prayed throughout Christendom for victory. We celebrate still Our Lady of Victory.
Earlier the Venetians had agreed to a humiliating peace with the Ottomans. in1570 the Ottomans took Cyprus. The tems were that the Venetians were to be spared and allowed to go to Crete. The Turkish commander reneged on his pledge and a massacre ensued. Venetian commander suffered an awful death.
Regarding love they neighbor, we should not be concerned with that in battle with Hamas. By that I don’t mean go to Hamas’ level and torture and kill the innocents.
but there will be unfortunately civilians killed.
Both sides Israel and Hamas will be armed with American txpayers money. Biden recently sent 6 Billion USD in cash to Iran for the release of hostages. Iran subsidizes Hamas.
Under Trump 4 Arab nations, with more Arab countries interested, had peace agreements with Israel. What a mess weak Biden has made undoing that.
Oh no… FORCED to give birth!
How tragic…sarcasm off.
https://www.lifenews.com/2023/10/12/israeli-airstrike-destroys-planned-parenthood-abortion-center/
I see some references to the disturbing and disgusting behavior coming from many colleges and universities which supports and defends the murderous and disgusting
actions of Hamas. I would simply observe that many of these apologists for the acts of barbarism have not been exposed to brainwashing long enough for it to be effective. The point is that this indoctrination begins in elementary and high schools in our nation. If this evil philosophy is to be rooted out, attention must be paid to it long before college or university. Most know the football team’s record but have no idea of the teachings of leftist teachers who dominate the profession. (I realize there are many good teachers. The key word is “dominate”.)
I’ve heard it said that the Islamist terrorists treat their own populations like hostages.