Sainthood as a tool in diplomacy between churches. I personally believe there are plenty of non-Catholics in Heaven. The Copts who died rather than apostatize are almost certainly among their number. For the Catholic Church to enroll them among the ranks of her saints however is simply wrong. That public proclamation is for Catholics only. The Pope has changed that tradition as old as the Church for a short term headline as he meets with the Coptic “Pope” of Egypt. This will be seized upon by Catholics who wish to neuter the Faith and make the Church merely one among many churches. Our current Pope is a negative Pope. He is so often wrong when he speaks or acts that he is almost a Bizarro world guide to what the Church holds and teaches.
I would note that I have a lot of respect for the Egyptian Copts. Preserving their faith in a sea of Islam for almost fourteen centuries takes a raw courage that elicits my admiration. But they are not Catholics, and the slave of the slaves of Christ should be clear on that point.
I have wondered for sometime if all this confusion the pope is spreading is more harmful than if he came out as full fledged heretic.
If that heretical Marxist Peronist Caudillo were the Roman Catholic Pope and doing these things when I was considering to convert to Catholicism after getting sober in AA in the 80s, then I would have abandoned effort in disgust. I have no doubt those Coptic Martyrs are Saints. But to ramrod a declaration of their Sainthood through Roman Catholic Sainthood enrollment before resolving the issue of disunity between Coptic and Roman Catholic Christians is simply wrong. Actually, I think Coptic Christians are perhaps more Christian than that Caudillo ever was or ever intends to be.
Depose and anathematize Jorge Mario Bergoglio! Until that’s done, this is where we’re at.
I worked for an Egyptian man during my University days as a pharmacy assistant. He did not like Coptic Orthodox because they did not treat the Catholics as their equals. There was always a coldness between the two even though they both are minorities. So whilst the Pope is doing this kumbaya, don’t expect the Coptic Orthodox Patriarch to reciprocate and start asking his congregation to pray to St Therese or Padre Pio or St JP2 for that matter. This is just weird.
“This is just weird.”
Indeed. I suppose this is to be expected from a pope who values photo ops and sound bites above actual religion. I wish he had found a real job instead of making a career of wrecking the Church he so obviously hates.
Maybe Francis is confused thinking the Coptic Catholic Church (Alexandrian Rite ) and the Coptic Orthodox Church are one and the same? According to Wiki the two religions get along. The Blessed Mother appeared in Zeitoun, Egypt during the years of 1968-1971. This is also the time frame beginning with Britain legalizing abortion in ’68 and Roe vs Wade in 1971.
“Maybe not coincidentally, apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary were seen there in 2000-2001, and again, in 2006, in Assiut — which is also traditionally the southernmost point that the Holy Family travelled to in their Egyptian flight. Another purported apparition, then, occurred in Warraq, Egypt in 2009, among other locations.” These apparitions were outside and inside Coptic Orthodox churches. There were also many incidents of healing at all three sites.
Possibly Catholics could establish a program for non-Catholics similar to the Jewish designation of “righteous among the nations” for non-Jews.
[…] Blog How I Shop & Cook for a Big Family Without Going Broke – Foodlets at Food Network Coptic Martyrs Are Not Catholic Martyrs – Donald R. McClarey, J.D., at The American Catholic Five Potted Plants for a Stunning Front […]
[…] While professing “a lot of respect for the Egyptian Copts,” Donald R. McClarey at The American Catholic dissents, arguing, “The Pope has changed that tradition as old as the Church for a short term headline as he meets with the Coptic ‘Pope’ of Egypt” — Coptic Martyrs Are Not Catholic Martyrs. […]
While understand that technically you are right, I really think this is poor position to argue from. For one, we are not talking about some run of the mill Protestant church. The Coptic Church is apostolic and has a valid priesthood and sacraments. There is no doubt that the Coptic martyrs died courageously for the faith and are true martyrs in every sense as much as a Catholic martyrs. Let’s keep in mind that the Pope isn’t honoring dead irreligious social justice warriors here. Most importantly, the Coptic Church is in a life and death struggle as an island in a hostile Islamic sea. They need our support, our prayers and our love, not our harsh judgment on technicalities.
Cannonization stipulates that a soul has achieved heaven. Three great miracles are the sign that these souls have achieved heaven. If Francis does not require three great miracles for what good is the position of sainthood?
There is no doubt that the Coptic martyrs died courageously for the faith and are true martyrs in every sense as much as a Catholic martyrs. Let’s keep in mind that the Pope isn’t honoring dead irreligious social justice warriors here. Most importantly, the Coptic Church is in a life and death struggle as an island in a hostile Islamic sea. They need our support, our prayers and our love, not our harsh judgment on technicalities.
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BBBAAAHHHAAA
The technicality that you are ignoring is that these folks are not Catholic. Words still mean things despite PF’s continually ignoring of their plain meaning.
Cannonization stipulates that a soul has achieved heaven. Three great miracles are the sign that these souls have achieved heaven. If Francis does not require three great miracles for what good is the position of sainthood?
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We all know that PF does not believe that the established meaning of terms do not apply to him.
Sorry! I didn’t mean to put 2 negatives. It should have said the following:
We all know that PF does not believe that the established meaning of terms do applies to him.
the Coptic Church is in a life and death struggle as an island in a hostile Islamic sea. They need our support, our prayers and our love, not our harsh judgment on technicalities
We can, of course, support the Coptic church without canonizing their martyrs … Pointing this out is certainly not “harsh judgment on technicalities”
TCT, MDV: The requirement for three miracles is waived in the case of martyrs.
I’m irish american catholic and far from liberal, but I dont understand how you guys can make this a catholic vs orthodox thing. They are real Christian’s who should be honored by al. Christian’s, protestant and catholic included.they died for ate lord.
They aren’t Orthodox Leo, they are Copts. The roll of Catholic Saints has always been for Catholics only. If people wish to honor the Copt martyrs, I have no objection. But the Copts are not members of the Church.
I dunno, man. Between this and “the Turks should have finished the job”, I mean, those who recognize Christ even with a flawed theology and ecclesial separation are our brothers.
All mankind are our brothers and sisters in Christ Pinky. That does not make them Catholics. As for “The Turks Should Have Finished the Job”, I can only assume you did not listen to the song “Istanbul” or you are not as light at heart as I frequently am.
No, our brothers and sisters in Christ are our fellow members of the body of Christ. Get this right, Donald.
Disagree G. Poulin. All mankind are our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Saying that Coptic Christians can’t be canonized Catholic saints is no different from saying, for example, that a minor league baseball team can’t win the World Series, or that a young lady from France can’t be Miss America. The minor league team may be the best ever and be more talented than many MLB teams, and the lady from France may be one of the most beautiful, admirable and talented on earth., but they can’t win particular honors for which they don’t qualify.