Reblog: Fact Check of a claimed quote by St. Clement of Alexandria

10 January AD 2023

Fact Check: Did Clement of Alexandria say that “Every woman should be overwhelmed with shame at the thought that she is a woman”?

As far as I can tell, the latest translation of the Paedagogus or Instructor is the 19th century Ante-Nicene Fathers, online here. This does not contain these words.

Lists of quotes designed to demonise always omit context, and often vary in wording and attribution. Our quote is not different in this respect. Some suggest that it comes from the Stromateis or Miscellanies book 3, but it does not. It appears in somewhat varying forms around the web, such as “every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman”. A hate-article, “20 disgustingly misogynist quotes from religious leaders” – none of them Muslim, for some reason – at Salon, by a certain Valerie Tarico, Oct 15, 2014, (online here) gives it in this version, which is sometimes combined with the other:

[For women] the very consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame. —Saint Clement of Alexandria, Christian theologian (c150-215) Pedagogues II, 33, 2.

There are a number of books from India which reference Bertrand Russell as a source, such as this one. But that book only references his smug tract in favour of adultery, Marriage and Morality (1929) – one feels for his poor abused wife – which does not contain any reference to Clement of Alexandria.

From Roger Pearce, a nice chunk of research into a supposed quote.

Worth reading the whole thing just for the actual descriptions of the chain of sources!

Oh, he did find something, eventually, that was a little bit similar. Boiled down, being drunk is nasty.

Foxfier

Former sailor, trained calibration tech, current mother, current geek; has a former sailor current geek computer tech husband, a pack of kids and cats, one dog, all spoiled. Has been "Foxfier" since before Mozilla existed, let alone renamed their browser "Firefox." It's a purposeful misspelling of the photo-luminescent effect-- for something that might look scary but is harmless.

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Ezabelle

Tuesday, January 10, AD 2023 3:51pm

So are they trying to cancel St Clement now? Crikey. Whether it was said or not, someone, somewhere (who was Christian and/or Catholic) probably said something like that at sometime in the past. Lets be honest. It’s called an opinion. And as you say, they’re expressed in the social, cultural context of a particular time, and should be understood as such. We all have opinions. We’ve all “offended” someone with our opinions!

But, At the end of the day, our Faith as passed down by Christ through his Apostles to us does not teach, represent or encourage the inferiority or humiliation of any gender, race, social class or persons. We are all sons and daughters made by our God in His own image and likeness- endowed with an Eternal Soul. But can’t say the same of any other other religion or non-religion. Islam regards women as inferior objects, Hinduism looks down at the lower casts, Buddhism claims you’ll come back a cockroach if you are nasty in this life. And Atheism, well, it treats everyone with contempt. So Christianity is doing ok in comparison.

Quotermeister

Tuesday, January 10, AD 2023 5:28pm

Bluntly speaking, women have traditionally been considered “inferior” to men. To plead their cause, feminist scholars have been efficient at unearthing nasty things that men have said or written about women. That many famous men have spoken disparagingly of women cannot be denied.

Aristotle refers to females as “deficient males” (The Generation of Animals). In the Old Testament there are numerous statements about women that are far from complimentary. Some deserve to be quoted: “Any wickedness but not the wickedness of a wife.” (Sirach 25:13) “I would rather dwell with a lion and a dragon than dwell with an evil wife.” (Sirach 25:16) “From a woman sin had its beginning, and because of her we all die.” (Sirach 25:24)

The secularist view is hardly more flattering. In Hamlet, William Shakespeare wrote the often-quoted words: “Frailty, thy name is woman.”

Yet feminists carefully refrain from mentioning the beautiful statements that men have made throughout history such as “she [a good wife] is far more precious than jewels;” (Proverbs 31:10) or “do not deprive yourself of a wise and good wife; for her charm is worth more than gold.” (Sirach 7:19) Dante sings the praise of the donna angelicata. (woman viewed as an angel). He immortalized Beatrice, his one great love, whose personality is a light and an inspiration in the poet’s life, and whose mission is to lead him to God. Shakespeare’s female characters are often sublime. Lamartine refers to women as “anges mortels, creation divine” (“mortal angels, divine creation”). Schiller rhapsodizes about the female sex. Theodor Haecker claims that nature made woman more perfect than man because she is more inclined to love and to give herself.

That such divergent statements can be made about women can find sundry explanations. It is usually true that an impure man, or one hooked on pornography, will look down upon women. On the other hand, a man steeped in the supernatural will look up to the sex that was honored to give birth to the Savior of the world. In the end, unwarranted generalizations are typical of shallow minds.

But the negative statements made about the “weaker sex” — highlighted and endlessly repeated by feminists — have gained currency and are the water driving their mill. Such words are no doubt partially responsible for this revolutionary movement that has gained so much impetus in the contemporary world.

From The Privilege of Being a Woman (2002) by Alice Von Hildebrand