Jack Kerouac, John Lennon & Bob Marley All Embraced Traditional Faith & Values In Their Latter Days

Sunday, December 2, AD 2012

Their stories are as old as time but worth repeating in this present age where so many seem to think they are too smart for God, religion and all of His love and grace. I must admit that being a fan of contemporary music and literature, I threw the stories of Jack Kerouac, John Lennon and Bob Marley’s late in life embrace of faith and tradition into my book without giving it much thought. However, I am surprised to find that so many who have read or perused my just released book, The Catholic Tide Continues to Turn have stated that they were not familiar with these stories and found them very revealing. Perhaps it is because our rebellious society has lionized figures who want to throw out God or just leave him as far distant as possible. Yet all three men realized that the traditional values, in which they were raised and the love of God they were once shown, was too important to forever jettison.

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24 Responses to Jack Kerouac, John Lennon & Bob Marley All Embraced Traditional Faith & Values In Their Latter Days

  • Thanks for this, I’m going to have to buy your books! i tried reading a biography of Kerouac and threw it away in disgust before I even got half way through; all that ‘behaviour’ with Ginsberg, Burroughs, et al. It put me off his books too, which I had enjoyed in my rebellious youth. This sheds a new light on him, for which I’m grateful; it’s never nice to have to give up on someone.

  • There has been much discussion of the “Catholic turn” in French philosophy, i.e., the way in which the most original and prominent thinkers of contemporary France seem to function within Catholic horizons: the philosophers René Girard, Pierre Manent, Jean-Luc Marion, Rémy Brague and Chantal Delsol, along with the writers Michel Tournier, Jean Raspail, Jean D’Ormesson, Max Gallo and Denis Tillinac.

    The Faith is alone capable of answering the existential challenges posed by modernity and post-modernity and more and more people are recognising this.

  • Now if you could get more than 3% of the population of France into Mass on Sunday …

  • I suspect that John Lennon had a bit more of a conservative/traditional streak than people think as evidenced by his rejection of the “overpopulation” propaganda of the time:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yRh5NNiFG0

    Is it possible that one reason we don’t hear more about Lennon’s conservative leanings is because Yoko Ono, who has spent the last 30 + years as the keeper of his legacy a la Jackie Kennedy, wasn’t completely on board?

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  • Lennon also stated in his last interview that he was a “most religious fellow”, and that he had come to appreciate what Christ had taught in his parables. He had outgrown the childish nihilism of “Imagine”. It’s a shame that so few people knew about this.

  • Sources please? What are your sources?

  • I heard this many years ago about John Lennon, but rarely is it mentioned. Let’s hope he’s at peace with the Lord. Even in his earlier days I never felt that he was evil, just very confused. Unfortunately, his “Imagine” is still used as a socialist national anthem. I’m sure he regrets it. Also, from what I’ve read, Bob Dylan too has embraced Our Lord, though he keeps a very low profile these days.

  • Elaine, yes the whole Yoko question is one that might never be truly answered, but it certainly seems both John and Yoko were headed in very different political and religious directions. Pete, the book has extensive endnotes that reference the sources for this and every other segment of the book.

    Siobhan, Bob Dylan has always been somewhat of an enigma. After the 1963 March on Washington, he became disillusioned by the Left and some on the Left became upset at his lack of support for their causes. He never ranted against God or any particular faith as did some of his generation. In addition long before his Christian Slow Train Coming period, Dylan had lyrical references to God. Incidentally, the Slow Traing Coming album might be the finest religious album ever written and recorded by a non-religious oriented artist. Today Bob Dylan seems to be part of a Messianic Jewish group, but I am not sure anyone really knows.

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  • Imagine! John Lennon in heaven.

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  • I, too, have never heard about these men embracing traditional Christianity in the latter part of their lives. I am interested to learn more.

  • I read an article recently that discussed how Andy Warhol lived a devout Catholic life, though he was surrounded by people who liked to party. This was a complete surprise to me. It was a very interesting article. I recommend doing an internet search on the topic.

  • As Pete says, sources please! I have to be frank: I don’t believe any of this. It sounds too good to be true. It sounds to hard to believe. It sounds like urban myth. Please provide sources with quotes.

  • I have to admit to being slightly stunned. I have been writing articles here and other Catholic sites, as well as political sites like the National Reivew, for some time. However, never have I been sought out in this demanding of a manner, via e-mail and other communications to provide details for the sourcing of this article. The lack of faith in the conversion of souls is rather revealing. As I indicated in a previous post, this information is thoroughly provided in the endnotes of my book. However, here are a couple of links for those who fall into the category of a Doubting Thomas. Read and believe!
    http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/lennon-was-a-closet-republican-assistant
    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html
    http://www.culturewars.com/CultureWars/1999/kerouac.html
    http://www.archden.org/index.cfm/ID/6031

  • This is truly amazing. I was a huge fan of Dylan, Marley, and Lennon in high school and college. They all certainly pined for something greater than themselves in many (not all) of their songs and lyrics. Marley got me interested in the Psalms in a better way than the Christian rock music of my day, and Dylan’s Slow Train Coming stopped my in my path. After I commented to my friend’s roommate how much I loved that STC and why it was so relatively unknown, he simply said that Dylan’s music producers thought it was just too Christian or religious and they just did want to promote it. It took Dylan years to get the songs released, he explained to me.

    I am forwarding the article to all of my 80s and 90s hipster siblings. I was just so heartneded to hear Lennon reject the overpopulation myth as presented in his time. And I like how he just rejected the interviewer’s snarky retort. Thank you so much!

  • I believe it was Fulton Sheen who said that at the end of time, we’ll be surprise to see who the Lord will put to the right and who to the left. Another rock star that comes to mind is Jim Morrison, who on the surface, was a pretty bad dude (though in my younger years I was a fan of his.) I read that after he died in Paris, they discovered notebooks of his “poetry” which were later published, though one notebook they found he wrote on every page, “God help me, God help me” over and over again. Now did the evil one snatch him away before he was able to convert, or did God hear his cry and take him? Time will tell.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=FG5FANKYhpcC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=jim+morrison+notebook+God+help+me&source=bl&ots=e722ZrkavG&sig=KI3wkQSvY_aOdUe3EPkE0MkIvLM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4M2-ULOALIiW0QGT_oG4Bw&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=jim%20morrison%20notebook%20God%20help%20me&f=false

  • Excellent post Siobhan, Jim Morrison is one of those figures that electrifies the militant secualr left, for to them the Lizard King seems to be thumbing his nose at God or worse throughout his life. To see him scribble and plead for God to help him shows humility, another characteristic the militant secular left hates. We could go on and on about major rock stars coming full circle. For example Rick Wakeman of Yes, who not only plays benefits for Conservative Party candidates in his native England, but also has embraced his childhood church.

    If more of these stories became known, it would be blow the lid off the facade that our popular culture has tried to cultivate about faith and traditional values.The idea of John Lennon challenging Jesus or Jim Morrison getting arrested for lewd behavior on state behavior in Miami is the kind of thing the militant secular powers that be want us to remember. They don’t want to see the late in life humility shown by Lennon and Morrison and their pleas for God’s help.

  • “I was a huge fan of Dylan, Marley, and Lennon in high school and college. They all certainly pined for something greater than themselves in many (not all) of their songs and lyrics.”

    That is a quality I see in the much-maligned “Imagine” — Lennon’s attempt to envision an un-fallen world, where there would be no NEED for religion in the sense of conscious submission to beliefs or morality (it would “come naturally” to us), or nations, or possessions; where there would seem to be “no heaven” since it would be one with earth, and “no hell” because no one would go there. Of course where he went wrong was in thinking this un-fallen world could be produced purely by human effort — sort of like a child thinking that all that mumbo-jumbo about aerodynamics and airplanes was bunk and people could fly just fine without it if they simply flapped their arms hard enough.

  • Imagine there’s no Heaven. It’s easy if you try. No Hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people, living for today. You, you may say I’m a dreamer. But I’m not the only one. I hope some day you’ll join us. And the world will be as one. -John Lennon.

    It’s a beautiful message. But I think it’s a little late to start claiming John Lennon for the “Traditional Religion” Team of Heavenly Pick-up Basketball.

  • Russ, you might want to check your facts. Imagine was written and recorded in 1971. John Lennon started having doubts about his utopian views by the mid 1970s. As referenced in my book, “The Catholic Tide Continues to Turn” through various sources including the links below among others, by the mid 1970s Lennon had a serious change of heart about his political and religious views. It was a full fledge change of heart by the late 70s.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/lennon-was-a-closet-republican-assistant
    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html

  • Jean-Louis Kirouac (as baptized) and the sad reality of the mythical Jack Kerouac.

    It is on page 143 of “One and Only – The untold story of On The Road” (Gerald Nicosia & Anne Marie Santos – Viva Editions) ) that one can find the most paradoxal photo of Jack Kerouac, taken in his bedroom while looking through his photo collection of his girl friends. On the wall, in a little black frame, the Black Cross of Temperance; hanging from the luminaire, his black Rosary.

    But all that has not kept him from rejecting before her birth his only and legitimate daughter Janet (Jan) Michele Kerouac (from Joan Heverty, his second wife), an abandonned child to whom he left knowingly a whole hell of misery and sufferings.

    But it is with that myth called ON THE ROAD, written in a long fit of frustration that poor Jack continues to mystify all his fans. Read One and Only and Kerouac will never be the same… for the worst and the best.

  • “Help Me To Help Myself” – demo not included on Double Fantasy album but produced as part of that project.

    Well, I tried so hard to settle down
    But the angel of destruction keeps on houndin’ me all around
    But I know in my heart
    The leaves are shining in the sun,
    That we never realy parted.
    Oh no, oh, help me, Lord,
    Oh, help me, Lord,
    Please, help me, Lord, yeah, yeah,
    Help me to help myself,
    Help me to help myself.

    They say the Lord helps those who helps themselves,
    So I’m asking this question in the hope that you’ll be kind
    ‘Cause I know deep inside
    The leaves are shining in the sun,
    I was never satisfied
    Oh no, oh, help me, Lord,
    Please, help me, Lord, yeah, yeah
    Help me to help myself,
    Help me to help myself.

    Who knows?

What Is To Be Done?

Wednesday, November 7, AD 2012

The narrative game has begun. One of the major memes we can expect to hear now that the GOP lost the presidential race is that “extremism” is to blame. Many of us know that it was absurd to label Mitt Romney “extreme” on anything. Even those on the other side willing to concede this point will say something like “the GOP is being held hostage by the extreme right” and “the Tea Party is to blame for the GOP defeat.” This is all, of course, complete nonsense, but many Republicans will buy it.

I honestly don’t know if it is possible to isolate and eliminate the factors that are ultimately responsible for Barack Obama’s reelection and Mitt Romney’s crushing defeat last night. What I do know is this: in 2004, President Bush was said to have won primarily because of a surge of evangelical voters who stormed the polls to defeat gay marriage initiatives in key swing states. Last night, voters approved gay marriage in three states and defeated two GOP Senate candidates because of remarks they made to the media about rape and abortion. Neither “extremism” in general or the “Tea Party” is to blame; commentators have been quick to point out that Akin was not a Tea Party choice and that perfectly moderate Republicans such as Tommy Thompson of Wisconsin went down in defeat last night.

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25 Responses to What Is To Be Done?

  • I have lived through worse electoral disasters than this: 1964, 1974, 1976 and 1992. The saving grace after each such defeat is that it tends to bring new faces and ideas to the fore and sharpens the party for future victories. That, and the Democrats always overreach, as they will this time. The party actually is in better shape at the state level across the nation than at any time during my life. Quite a bit of potential there.

    A good post Bonchamps and I will be coming up with some other practical suggestions for the way out of the political wilderness tomorrow.

  • Leadership. The country and the conservative cause is in sore need of a strong leader. Back in the Vietnam era while I was a candidate in Officer Candidate School, I’ll never forget the description of what a true leader is; “he can tell you he’s going to take you to hell and back and you look forward to the trip!” Now theologically we as Catholics, have an issue with the details of that, but here is a point to be made by the statement. In my lifetime only one President comes to mind who fills that bill.

    The demographics of the country are rapidly changing. I have never been comfortable with the Republican strident stand on immigration. I’m not advocating amnesty, but we do need to confront reality. There needs to be a documented guest worker program to start with. In a few years, Texas may well be a purple state.

  • . There needs to be a documented guest worker program to start with. :

    Rubbish. Either allow people to settle or send them home. You import indentured servants you are asking for trouble.

  • You know, I will be quite frank about this: I am sick to death of the implications behind criticisms of the GOP’s immigration positions.

    Hispanics who are here legally ought to be in favor of upholding the nation’s immigration laws. If their position is essentially that we ought to not enforce the laws or create new laws that do nothing to address the problems associated with mass immigration, we cannot possibly endorse it. It is criminal and immoral to do so, in fact.

    We are under no obligation to endorse open borders, lax enforcement, and the cultural disintegration of our country. We have other options besides appeasing La Raza and MEChA, you know.

  • This is the kind of stuff, Bonchamps, that you’re really good at analyzing and articulating. I may not agree completely with everything in your post, but you make good sense and your facts seem correct. And since I am a nuclear engineer and not a political scientist, I will defer to your wisdom in such matters.

  • So what is the answer to selling the Conservative position to blacks and latino’s? Enlighten me. How do we get there? Or perhaps you believe it doesn’t matter?

  • I don’t know how we get there. I know what we don’t do to get wherever “there” is, though.

    Ironically, getting tougher on border issues could swing some of the black vote our way. Who do you think takes all of their jobs? Our angle could be, “vote for us – you won’t get as much welfare, but you’ll definitely have greater job opportunities as we send your main competitors packing.”

    It’s one option, anyway. But I certainly will not acquiesce to the notion that we sacrifice our cultural and territorial integrity for the sake of voters in this country who believe that the laws are meaningless and will punish the party that tries to enforce them. If that’s what this country has come to, then no election will change anything.

  • I live in Florida. I quite frankly resent the accomodations to Hispanics with language. You live here, learn the language. Music in Spanish at Mass or diocesan functions drives me nuts. Our parish as a ministry supports the mission that works with the field workers who pick the vegetables and the fruit. Americans will not do the work. They are illegal, but without them the vegetable and fruit industries are not viable. They wouldn’t be able to compete with imports from Mexico and South America. That’s what I mean by a guest worker program. Know who they are and create a record.

    As to the rest of the latino community, we best recognize that their numbers are growing legally. They are becoming an ever growing percentage of the population. They vote. They have issues that need to be respected. They are by and large Catholic and family oriented. They are conservative and should be voting with us, but they are not.

  • And what are those issues, exactly?

    Open borders and handouts. That’s what they want.

  • Family oriented voters are concerned about having enough for living expenses whether or not the funds are earnings. It seems that this concern trumps all others. From Instapundit:

    ‘ “The first day of the ‘next 4 years’ is starting in a very auspicious fashion. First, the market crashes. Then, a major blue chip company, Boeing, just announced it would cut 30% of management jobs from 2010 levels. And finally, the US Treasury just added $24 billion in debt, or enough to fund Greece for over one year, sending the total debt load (the US is now at 103% debt/GDP) ever closer to the debt ceiling breaching $16.4 trillion.”

    Posted at 10:50 pm by Glenn Reynolds

    I QUESTION THE TIMING: A reader who works at Yale emails:

    I found it interesting that this email came out today from Yale benefits:

    Dear Colleagues:

    We would like to make you aware of a significant federally mandated change which will impact Yale’s healthcare flexible spending account benefit. Effective January 1, 2013, as a provision of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the annual contribution limit will be capped at $2,500. Currently, the maximum amount of pre-tax dollars you can set aside in a healthcare flexible spending account is $12,000.

    As a participant who contributed $2,500 or more in 2012, we encourage you to keep this in mind as you begin to plan for your 2013 out-of-pocket medical, dental and vision expenses. You will soon have an opportunity to re-enroll in the flexible spending account benefit plan during Annual Benefits Enrollment (December 3-17). As a reminder, you have until March 15, 2013 to incur expenses against your 2012 contributions, and until April 30, 2013 to submit claims those for reimbursement. We hope that this grace period is helpful for maximizing your flexible spending benefit for 2012.

    If you have any further questions, please contact an Employee Services representative.

    What interesting timing! I did know about this, as a former CPA/tax accountant, but how many did?
    Today my husband came home and told me that his boss informed him today that a layoff is planned. Small aerospace/manufacturing plant.
    We are worried. We were worried before the election that if the direction didn’t change, we’d face an ugly economic future. It may already becoming true for our family.

    I think a lot of stuff will be coming out over the next few weeks and months that was carefully kept off the radar before Election Day. ‘

  • To answer Jerry’s question I think the state Republican parties are a big part of the problem. More than a few seem indolent or dysfunctional (Bob Michel syndrome). They are often exclusionary in orientation. The VA Repubs spend most of their time fighting with the :”non approved” conservative types. Their get out the vote effort in VA this election was pathetic as far as I could tell. I asked them a couple of times since they didn’t want Tea Party types then what voters were they seeking to make up the difference? Never got an answer. I fear the only remedy is to get some disaffected Dem operatives to run the effort. At least they know what they are doing. If the state and local party is doing nothing on outreach a Presidential candidate showing an ad is not very effective. You can’t show up once every four years and expect a warm welcome.

    Obama got his toughest media questions from the Hispanic media over Fast and Furious. Good grief what a missed opportunity for Romney and Ryan. Here the Admin that so loves Hispanics is covering up the murder of many many Mexicans by ATF provided weapons. Except for the first debate I don’t think Romney made much attempt to explain how his policies would be better for voters including Hispanics than the Democrats policies. Most of his ads were just awful. In a 2 party system you always need to remember voters have a choice.

    Bush 43 got plenty of Hispanic support. He spoke some bad Spanish but the Bushes had a Hispanic wife or two in the clan I believe, That kind of acceptance speaks volumes. The Dems co-opt community leaders to vouch for them. They set up media networks to promote the Dem party indirectly. They also try to make association with the Repubs a form of betrayal. That way they neutralize a Hispanic Repub. Did you see any outcry from Hispanics when Bush43’s AG Gonzalez got in trouble?

    Repubs also don’t call enough attention to Dem’s hostility to religion (except Sharia Islam).

  • PM my thoughts and prayers are with you. I’m very sorry for you and many others. This is purely a national self inflicted wound which makes it doubly frustrating. The same post election angst is occurring in Argentina and France who also have voted foolishly.

  • “They are by and large Catholic and family oriented.”

    this means nothing, it’s like saying that well-to-do suburban Democratic family is “conservative.” Conservatives said the same things about blacks during the Bush years, they’re more religious/socially conservative, we can get them to break. it’s not really that simple.

    the GOP will not outbid the Dems on immigration. That doesn’t mean we have to outright antagonize them/that no change is necessary, but we also don’t have to embrace a position that will earn us nothing with Hispanics and lose white working-class votes in the process

  • I think you insult the citizens of this country in your article. Mob rule? Free stuff ? How about the tens of thousands injured in the wars started by presedent bush ? Are those people just wanting free stuff from the gov.? Could it be the mothers fathers sisters brothers of the fallen who just voted the republicans ‘ s out? How about majority rule, as it should be. The country is way , way better off now than 4 years ago. Employment up, home prices up, stock market up, inovative companies, false war in Iraq over, bin laden dead. extremism not to blame for losses ha ? What planet are you on? You might as well say horendous acts against women in Afghanistan are not extreme . And I wouldn’t call a few hundred dollars a month in food stamps, which is literally just barely enogh to eat now and emergency access to a telephone endless entitlment .come on. I thought Christians were supposed to feed the hungry . Lol shrinkage of the base ha ha . Your words betray your fear . Of course its possible to figure out why republicans lost, its all over the news god your in your own little world . Time to grow up , Jesus thought outside his box , maybe you could as well . Sorry excuse for an article bud .

  • With respect, there are many palatable ways to turn the immigration problem on its head, to turn it from a losing to a winning issue for Republicans. However, we can’t respond to every proposal as though what is good for aliens is bad for America. Whether you accept it or not, our future is as tied to theirs as it has ever been.

    For example: the technology non-immigrant visa is, for the most part, the H1B. It is on this visa that most of the IT workers enter the US to underbid US jobs.

    It can get complicated but, at its core, the process entails a company filing a petition for a worker and demonstrating that 1) they have tried to fill the post and couldn’t, 2) they have work for them to do, 3) the company can pay the prevailing wage, and 4) bringing in a worker won’t violate union rules. Sounds reasonable.

    The problem is that the system was established for “brick and mortar” enterprises in the old economy. The underlying assumption is that there is A job at A location, like designing medical equipment at a plant. IT doesn’t work that way and, so, the H1B system has to be twisted to fit this important sector of the economy.

    There is rampant fraud but most is subtle and disastrous for the US economy. A common scheme is for an Indian company to send a few representatives to the US to set up an US corporation. They, in turn, petition for highly skilled computer professionals from their own corporation. They then establish a servicing contract with the foreign corporation to show cash flow. The petitioned-for aliens are then installed at large US corporations to look for work that can be outsourced to the Indian company.

    On paper, everything looks legit… US corporation? Check. Cash flow? Check. Contract requiring a worker? Check. Only it isn’t legit. The worker isn’t a $62,000/year Programmer Analyst, they are a $120,000/year manager, finding work that can be outsourced.

    So, accept for a moment that I am being truthful… That little tale should make your blood boil. It does mine and that it plays out tens of thousands of times a year concerns me greatly.

    We can get mad and insist on wiping out the program altogether but that argument, right or wrong, will never garner more than fringe support. We can impotently rage against the Indians but that is mean and stupid. We can throw up our hands – as Congress does but that just gives legislative consent to the slight of hand.

    The cleverest remedy I’ve heard is also the simplest: eliminate the petition provision so that workers can work wherever they want, for whomever they want and let the market control their wages. I favor this proposal for two reasons: any rule of law that encourages deceit is a bad rule and greed is a sound foundation for market systems.

    Whatever the IT workwr’s loyalty, they know what they can get in the open market. The Indian corporations would have to compensate sufficiently to keep that worker working for them. US corporations, unable to get discounted labor from overseas would have to at least conside hiring US workers and paying them fairly and training in-house. Finally, you wipe out the economic insentive for the dummy corporations that make the fraud work.

    There are lots of changes to immigration systems that yield high economic dividends for the US economy and advance the interests of legitimate immigrants. We won’t reach them though if we on the Right react negatively to immigrants generally and immigration proposals as though they are inherently bad because they benefit immigrants.

  • Ben,

    I approved your pathetic comment just to pick it apart for fun. I wish I didn’t have so much time on my hands.

    “I think you insult the citizens of this country in your article. Mob rule? Free stuff ?”

    Yes, you know, the stuff Obama pays for from his “stash”, i.e. our tax dollars, things like free birth control for Sandra Fluke. Yes, mob rule, the people who threatened to riot and murder if Romney was elected. I know the media outlets you likely frequent don’t bring such things to your attention. Time to leave the MSM bubble perhaps. Google is your friend.

    “How about the tens of thousands injured in the wars started by presedent bush ? Are those people just wanting free stuff from the gov.?”

    Who said anything about that? Let me clue you in: as anyone who frequents TAC will tell you, I am opposed to Bush’s wars and think all troops should be brought home immediately. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one. And veterans are entitled to benefits, because national defense and related matters fall under the Constitutionally legitimate duties of the federal government. I know its hard for you to imagine a consistent political philosophy, but it does exist, I do espouse it, and you should look before you leap and make assumptions about others.

    “Could it be the mothers fathers sisters brothers of the fallen who just voted the republicans ‘ s out?”

    The military usually goes Republican. I know some soldiers. They’re all either GOP supporters or 3rd party. And they all despise Obama.

    “How about majority rule, as it should be.”

    Who said anything against it?

    “The country is way , way better off now than 4 years ago.”

    Excuse me while I finish LMAO.

    “Employment up,”

    Real unemployment is higher than it has been since FDR’s administration – 17% and rising.

    “home prices up,”

    They had nowhere to go but up, and it has nothing to do with Obummer’s policies. They would have gone up under McCain too.

    “stock market up,”

    The stock market tanked as soon as Obama’s reelection was called. So did the dollar, because the rest of the world knows that Obama will print trillions more dollars, creating imaginary money to pay for political fantasies.

    “inovative companies,”

    ::laughs hysterically::

    “false war in Iraq over,”

    Bush began the withdrawal process, and Obama is murdering innocent children with drones in Pakistan. Your president is as much a warmonger as W.

    “bin laden dead.”

    Well, I’m a crazy conspiracy theorist. I think he died in 2002 or sometime shortly thereafter, having already been on kidney dialysis well before that, and that whomever they bagged wasn’t bin Laden. We’ll never know, since Seal Team 6 was, on an entirely unrelated note, placed on a defective, outdated helicopter that blew up and killed them all.

    “extremism not to blame for losses ha ? What planet are you on?”

    No, poor discipline is to blame. Discipline is required to defeat the kind of people who mislead simple people, like yourself.

    “You might as well say horendous acts against women in Afghanistan are not extreme .”

    Huh?

    “And I wouldn’t call a few hundred dollars a month in food stamps, which is literally just barely enogh to eat now and emergency access to a telephone endless entitlment .”

    Its endless when it doesn’t end, when it becomes a way of life sustained by the labor of others.

    “come on. I thought Christians were supposed to feed the hungry .”

    Yeah. We’re supposed to do it as a free act of love, not because men with guns and badges will throw us in prison if we don’t.

    “Lol shrinkage of the base ha ha . Your words betray your fear . Of course its possible to figure out why republicans lost, its all over the news god your in your own little world . Time to grow up , Jesus thought outside his box , maybe you could as well . Sorry excuse for an article bud .”

    Well, given the level of basic grammar and command of the relevant political facts, I don’t think I’m going to take your criticism too poorly.

  • “home prices up,”

    “They had nowhere to go but up, and it has nothing to do with Obummer’s policies. They would have gone up under McCain too.”

    How true. Most homes around the nation during the reign of the Southside Messiah have lost 20 to 30 percent of value. I would wager that Ben does not own a home.

  • Sure he does… If by “own” you mean “borrow” and by “home” you mean “mother’s basement.”

  • Seriously though, “you can’t fix stupid” and the West is becoming increasingly stupid.

    Ignorance can be addressed in individuals. It tend to think of the word in a positive way, as in “I don’t know anything about that. Could you tell me something more so that I am not as ignorant?”

    Stupid strikes me as willful: as iin “I voted for Obama because Romney didn’t have an economic plan.” You see, in this statement, I betray that 1) having an economic plan is not really a requirement or I’d know that Obama didn’t present one and 2) I know that having an economic plan would be a positive thing for a candidatet but I choose to not investigate the matter.

    People are ignorant until they are informed but you can’t inform the stupid.

    The GOP can’t reach the stupid and we shouldn’t try, lest we be dragged down to their inarticulate, carping fom the sidelines of life existence. Don’s post above, forgive me for paraphrasing, calls for the GOP to inform, to correct ignorance. We simply can’t fix the Ben’s of the world; only He who let the blind man see can.

  • The analysis needs to go further. The very conversation itself here is using Liberal Democrat terms and concepts. Class designations are the tools of the left and the GOP cannot win any debate using concepts and descriptions created by the enemy.

    Republicans need to create a brand new paradigm from the ground up, standing on the principle of servant leadership, using the essences of Scriptural wisdom. No more collectivist terminology regarding race, sex, or any other demographic facet. That language must be continually attacked as dehumanizing and insulting to the sanctity of the individual person, from conception to natural death.

    The whole “War on Women” theme could have been wiped off the map, simply by saying “Our mothers, sisters and daughters are, like our fathers, brothers and sons, full and necessary participants in a society whose goals are civil prosperity, secure families and communities, and respect for every individual person regardless of station or circumstance. If all you believe women to be are mobile genitals, then you have that right, but we take a higher view.” Not just once, but time after time after time, from male and female spokespeople, and every variation on the theme should have been based on that principle.

    As well, compartmentalization of issue is a Leftist weapon. It must be recognized that all issues today, from business overregulation to gay marriage, are inter-connected and that by appealing to the commonality that all share – while pointing out the politically-motivated faux issues created by the left to maintain class warfare and societal division – the whole tone of the battle can be changed.

    The media will be the easiest target since they’re the least intellectually nimble of the bunch. All that’s needed are disciplined, principled and consistent answers to any given challenge on any given aspect of the paradigm, and the respondent silence will speak as loudly as any other potential reaction. Akin and Mourdock failed because they were politicians and not principled public servants. The GOP can turn those losses into huge gains by learning and applying the lessons. They must take the example of Edmund Burke, as posted today by Don, of service before office and the nobility of sacrifice of privilege for the sake of principle. This will be the greatest weapon, if in fact the Republicans can find enough principled people to wield it.

  • And THAT, WK Aiken is the best articulation of the issue I’ve seen in years. Thank you!

  • Bonchamps, you overgeneralize the “Hispanic” vote as badly as the Democrats. Hispanics are the single largest demographic in Texas, yet Texas voted red as blood. Ted Cruz is a Tea Party candidate and considered “extreme” right.

    Aiken is right – dump the demographic paradigm. Clinton was right – it is the economy. The GOP did not do enough on calling out the MSM on their lies about the state of the economy. I would have taken EVERY announcement of job cuts over the last four years and put that front and center.

  • Rozin @ 11:56: That comment was only an observation for the demographic discussion, meaning that it seems that living expenses are a basic concern for voters across the differing constituencies, not a personal statement about my preferences. The D campaign used the strength of that interest in a different way from the R campaign. Each side ‘scared’ the other as to income security, so I thought it might be something to look at by campaign planners. That for the good thought though.

  • You know, I will be quite frank about this: I am sick to death of the implications behind criticisms of the GOP’s immigration positions.

    Agreed.

    Bonchamps, you overgeneralize the “Hispanic” vote as badly as the Democrats. Hispanics are the single largest demographic in Texas, yet Texas voted red as blood. Ted Cruz is a Tea Party candidate and considered “extreme” right.

    The “Hispanic” vote means that section that votes on open borders and support for the same. It doesn’t include the folks who vote conservative because that’s the world-view they have, same way that I’m not part of the “women’s vote”– abortion, birth control and single parenthood support– because I am a conservative.
    That is what the terms mean when the Dems use them, and if we talk about taking that group, we’re about the same sub-section.

    The GOP deals with what people think instead of what they were born. Buying into the Dem’s “born that way” mindset is dangerous, and seems to be getting more popular. (followed by those buying in being unable to figure out why they’re not as good at it as the guys they’re copying)

  • There was nothing wrong with Romney. We lost because of turnout – period. The democrats have a great ground game going now. The republicans are still relying on the appeal of common sense. It does not work this way. A community organizer can beat a republican time and time again.

    How do we rebound? We need to get organized and galvanized around a single carefully selected leader. We need to stop thinking of our individual causes and start thinking about whether this country will exist for our children and grandchildren.

Russia Defends Traditional Values

Monday, October 8, AD 2012

Mother Russia has done it again: this time, it pushed through a UN resolution affirming the link between traditional values and human rights. It did so against the protests of European and American delegations, who were primarily concerned about the implications that such an affirmation would have for gay rights.

The European and U.S. delegations repeatedly complained that “traditional values” is a vague concept used to justify violence and discrimination against women and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual (LGBT) persons.

Homosexual activists are not happy:

Support for traditional values is deeply troublesome to LGBT groups, as the Gay Star News reports. They are worried it will be used to defend the natural family, and fear they will be unable to de-criminalize homosexuality worldwide.

I am thrilled to see that there is a relatively powerful nation on this planet that isn’t an Islamic theocracy willing to defend traditional values before the entire world. I am elated to see Russia brushing aside as the anti-social insanity that it is the complaints of LGTB activists and their UN proxies.

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24 Responses to Russia Defends Traditional Values

  • Mixed feelings… Russia’s Resolution is full of nice words but it is proposed by a dictatorial regime which supports many of the world’s greatest evils. I have a hard time celebrating Putin’s Russia.

    Make no mistake, history will excoriate the West for its handling of Russia and her former satellites from about 1995 on. We effectively drove Russia to embrace its latest Tsar. Perhaps she can only be ruled by force but I like to hink that attentiveness would have changed the outcome.

    As it stands though, nothing Putin’s government does can be taken at face value.

  • Considering the source, I’m waiting for the barb in the phrasing.

    Not that I doubt the US delegation really was freaking because homosexuality isn’t traditional, I just don’t think Russia does anything like this out of the goodness of her heart. (Russia is a her, right? Same way the US is Uncle Sam?)

    Off the top of my head, I can see slavery, the nastier parts of Islam/Sharia, a lot of what China has been doing for ages, etc…. Humans are rather good at being nasty, and there’s going to be commonality in some of those things.

  • Russia is a her Foxfier: The Rodina, the motherland. As many of the subject nationalties of the Russians can attest down the centuries, she can be a rather harsh step mom.

  • Thank you. When one is getting one’s phrasing from old TV shows that have folks talking about Mother Russia, it’s best to ask. ;^)

  • Mother Russia suffered from bad press at the hands of the British Empire. Nothing she ever did was good enough, on the other the hand the Turks who ran a similar system, were the sick man of Europe, who with a modicum of Enlightenment could all be turned into gintlemans.

  • Check out the picture Mr. Lileks found.

    Link for more at a page titled “The Russian Empire, 100 years ago, in living color.”

  • More photographs here;

    http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/

    Notice how diverse the Tsar’s realm was. By this time the peasants were already emancipated and Russia was well on its way to becoming the breadbasket of Europe eclipsing the Argentinians. The Stolypin reforms promised a fair deal to all of Russia’s inhabitants. Left to her own devices Russia would have modernised much in the same manner as the Japanese or any large agricultural country did. But God allowed some diabolically evil men (not all of the communists, if anything the nihilists were more responsible for undermining the moral fibre of the Russians), to perpetrate quite possibly the greatest crime in human history :

    “Terrible and mysterious,” wrote Metropolitan Anastasy, second leader of
    the Russian Church Abroad, “is the dark visage of the revolution. Viewed
    from the vantage point of its inner essence, it is not contained within the
    framework of history and cannot be studied on the same level as other
    historical facts. In its deepest roots it transcends the boundaries of space and
    time, as was determined by Gustave le Bon, who considered it an irrational
    phenomenon in which certain mystical, supernatural powers were at work.
    But what before may have been considered dubious became completely
    obvious after the Russian Revolution. In it everyone sensed, as one
    contemporary writer expressed himself, the critical incarnation of absolute
    evil in the temper of man; in other words, the participation of the devil – that
    father of lies and ancient enemy of God, who tries to make man his obedient
    weapon against God – was clearly revealed.”

    – from THE FALL OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE: A SPIRITUAL HISTORY
    Vladimir Moss

  • “…I believe that those who put natural law and traditional values first have no greater ally than Russia.”

    I’m not buying it.

    Perhaps my judgement is clouded from spending three years doing the cat-and-mouse thing with Victor and Akula submarines, but I do not trust the Russians.

    There are strong currents in the Russian soul that run through history worn channels of fear and humiliation. Through their trials, coming mostly from foreign invaders, they have seen their salvation come, not from Christ, but from the motherland or strong-men. General Winter and Colonel Mud would save them from the invaders and then the long line of Peters and Stalins would assuage their humiliation by dominating their neighbors and briefly letting Russia play at being a world power.

    The current russian strong-man is playing to one major theme: nationalism. His tactics and course resemble the ‘ism that dare not speak its name, but was highly favored in Europe about 80 years ago.

    Any appeal to traditional values on the Rusain government’s part is meant to bolster Russian natonalism by contrasting the merely materialistic, utilitaran, and financially corrupt Russian values of national socialism with the absolutely bongers and suicidal values of Western elites.

    The fact that someone can look to Russia and see a bastion of traditional values and natural law only goes to show how far we have fallen. When your culture is at the bottom of a thousand foot pit, even the belly of a worm on the ground can seem like lofty heights.

  • Ivan

    The British approach to Russia, throughout the 19th century, was dominated by two considerations: Russian influence in Afghanistan, on the borders of her Indian empire and, after 1859, the fear of a Russian fleet in Constantinople, threatening the Suez Canal and, thus, her route to India.

    Thus, Britain did everything possible to prop up the Ottoman power and to weaken Russian influence over the Ottomans’ subject Slav peoples. It also encouraged British politicians’ love affair with the rising power of Prussia, as the bulwark of civilisation in the East.

  • Make no mistake, history will excoriate the West for its handling of Russia and her former satellites from about 1995 on. We effectively drove Russia to embrace its latest Tsar.

    How?

    Russia’s political class made a hash of economic reforms, Poland’s did not. The latter had a difficult period of transition lasting less than three years. The former had an economic depression that ran on for more than a decade and had appended to it the rapid multiplication of street crimes. The failure of constitutional government in Russia under those circumstances is unsurprising.

    You might ask yourself why we ‘drove’ Russia and Belarus into the arms of autocrats but refrained from doing so with regard to the rest of the former East Bloc.

  • G-Veg,

    Again, there’s that whole thing about stones and glass houses. What “evil” has post-Soviet Russia supported, exactly? If we’re going to list regimes, the US has its own list of objectively “evil” partners in geopolitics, and a long history with many “evil” regimes both currently existing and long perished.

    I see no reason for any American to be threatened in the least by Putin’s Russia, nor do I take seriously for one moment any sort of moralistic condemnation of Putin’s government when our own is arming/supporting Al-Qaeda rebels against Assad – as it did against Qaddafi and Mubarak.

    Tony H,

    “Through their trials, coming mostly from foreign invaders, they have seen their salvation come, not from Christ, but from the motherland or strong-men.”

    What? What does this mean? Should they have surrendered and prayed while Napoleon or Hitler wiped them out? Would this have met with your approval? What’s the point here?

    “Any appeal to traditional values on the Rusain government’s part is meant to bolster Russian natonalism by contrasting the merely materialistic, utilitaran, and financially corrupt Russian values of national socialism with the absolutely bongers and suicidal values of Western elites.”

    I don’t care. All actions have objective effects independent of their subjective motivations. Russia’s acts are objectively aligned with natural law and traditional values. They should be encouraged and praised.

  • when our own is arming/supporting Al-Qaeda rebels against Assad – as it did against Qaddafi and Mubarak.

    Al Qaeda is active in Libya. The current government of Libya is not an al Qaeda operation nor is it unfriendly to the Occident.

  • Bonchamps,
    The point of mentioning the repeated foreign invasions and reliance on strong-men is to explain the Russian national character.

    I believe the defining question of character is who, or what, you put your trust in. In other words; who is your god?

    In much of the West, the state has become god. Prior to Obama, that was the state as apparatus, not as a single man. In Russia the state, in the form of the strong-man, has ruled supreme for generations. When Putin flexes and preens for the camera he creates a resonance in the Russian heart.

    Besides their love of the strong-man, the love of Russians for the land itself should not be underestimated. The land itself has swallowed up her enemies in the past. The Russians desire to buffer her is palbably, just ask the Ukraines and Georgians.

    Dr. Zhivago said it best: “Scratch a Russian and you’ll find a peasant.”

    I agree with your statement that “all actions have objective effects independent of their subjective motivations.” What surprises me is that you seem to be saying you don’t care about those subjective motivations.

    If that’s the case, let me offer for your consideration the nation of North Korea. I don’t have hard stats, but from all reports this nation is a bastion of objective traditional values and natural law. The divorce rate is low, homosexuality rates run comparable to that of Iran, there is no epidemic of internet porn, no one is coveting his neighbors goods (or lack there of) and last I checked, over the last ten years North Korea hasn’t invaded anyone, which is more than you can say for Russia or America.

    By this measure, I think North Korea deserves even more praise and encouragement than Russia.

  • Tony,

    Why exactly am I supposed to care, presumably to the point of Russophobia, that “Russians love a strongman” and “Russians love the land”, and other such generalized characteristics? What relevance does any of this have?

    “What surprises me is that you seem to be saying you don’t care about those subjective motivations.”

    Why should I? This is the American sickness – the belief that other people’s internal affairs and moral dispositions are our intimate business. Given Russia’s objective ability to project its power militarily (which is negligible and limited to the former SSRs – and a country with a Manifest Destiny and Monroe Doctrine has no business complaining about that), its subjective motivations are almost meaningless. Meaningless, that is, to Americans who believe that the “grand chessboard” is too expensive in terms of lives, money and prestige to continue playing on.

    Meanwhile its support for Christianity and traditional values are objectively good and have objectively good effects. Maybe we’re different. I put these things above all other considerations. I don’t care if Russia dominates Georgia, any more than the average Russian cares if we dominate Central America. I care about the ruthless advance of moral cancer worldwide, emanating from the West. We are collectively responsible for this.

    As for North Korea, give me a break, please. North Korea tortures and murders Christians when they find them. And communism itself is a massive, ongoing violation of natural law – of private property rights, the rights to life and liberty, etc. If Russia were still communist, I would not take its declaration in favor of traditional values seriously. But it isn’t. It isn’t a bastion of free market idealism, but then, neither is America, which has plummeted to 18th place in terms of economic freedom. There is no comparison between Orthodox, non-communist Russia and the remnants of the Hermit Kingdom.

  • This is the American sickness – the belief that other people’s internal affairs and moral dispositions are our intimate business.

    Concern for other people’s welfare is not a sickness.

  • When concern becomes meddling, it is a sickness. There is nothing more annoying than help that wasn’t asked for and that almost always makes the problem worse than it was.

  • There is nothing more annoying than help that wasn’t asked for and that almost always makes the problem worse than it was.

    Where? And which segment of society gets to do the non-asking?

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  • Despotism as a form of government is not without its merits. One has only to think of the Julian and Antonine Emperors. They established the Pax Romana and the rule of law, curbed the oppression of race by race and class by class and established the strict civic equality of all the free inhabitants of the Empire. Property was protected and contracts enforced by a code of laws that is still the basis of European jurisprudence. Free labour and its derivative, free trade, flourished. Paradoxically, the government of a single will demands impersonal and incorruptible administration.

    To be popular, “government must not be arbitrary, but it must be powerful enough to repress arbitrary action in others. If the supreme power is needlessly limited, the secondary powers will run riot and oppress. Its supremacy will bear no check.” (Lord Acton, describing the theory of benevolent despotism) The French Revolution was far more a revolt against noble and clerical privileges than against royal absolutism and the Empire was its consummation, not its reversal.

    One can seew how, given its history, despotism may suit this stage of Russia’s development.

  • Michael,

    Fair enough, the British had their interests to protect. It accounts for their successful propaganda that continues to have purchase on many. But how did their perfidy work out in the end? They sold or taught the Japanese the latest in naval technology, so that in the 1905 Russo-Japanese war, the IJN units outclassed the 40-year old ships under Adm Rozhestvensky. We know the Japanese returned the favour with interest by driving the British out of the Far East a mere 37 years later. Jawaharlal Nehru, cooling his heels during one of his sabbaticals in prison wrote to his daughter:
    “I have told you in another letter of an occurrence which stirred Asia greatly. This was the victory of little Japan over giant Russia in 1904-5? India, in common with other Asiatic countries, was vastly impressed, that is, the educated middle classes were impressed, and their self-confidence grew. If Japan could make good against one of the most powerful European countries, why not India?…

    All this is as remote as the conquest of Canaan to me, my interest is in seeing that truth subsists.

  • “They established the Pax Romana and the rule of law, curbed the oppression of race by race and class by class and established the strict civic equality of all the free inhabitants of the Empire.”

    Contra Gibbon, not a word of that is true. After the year of four emperors in 69 AD the empire was a barely disguised military dictatorship, always subject to potential military revolt, living off the intellectual capital of the dead Roman Republic. Dictatorship brought its usual fruits: economic stagantion, growth of government bureaucracy and inflation. Despotism, enlightened or not, is always a door to nowhere for the people doomed to endure it.

  • Interesting comments. I have no love for Putin, but if the Lord could stir up the spirit of pagan King Cyrus of Persia to do something righteous (Ezra 1:1), so also can he stir up the spirit of Putin (or any other autocrat for that matter).

  • Paradoxically, the government of a single will demands impersonal and incorruptible administration.

    ?????

    Despotism, enlightened or not, is always a door to nowhere for the people doomed to endure it.

    I can think of examples in the post-war period where authoritarian administrations provided respite from pathologies of political culture (Chile, 1973-90; Uruguay, 1972-85; Peru, 1992-2000; Turkey, 1980-83; Jordan, 1957- ).