Delusional or Mendacious

Friday, March 18, AD 2016

8 Responses to Delusional or Mendacious

  • I’ve known for several years that Cardinal Dolan was a bad egg, just like virtually, with few, damned few exceptions!

  • I meant to say:

    I’ve known for several years that Cardinal Dolan was a bad egg, just like virtually all his fellow American bishops with few, damned few, exceptions!

  • “Delusional or mendacious.”

    Why not both?

  • This must have been misreported. I thought the good cardinal, when asked about the participation of pro-life groups, said “Bravo. Good on them. I have no sense of judgment about them at all.” No? He must have saved that for something he truly supports.

  • At this stage the good Cardinal should strictly prohibited any Catholic from participating in the parade due to the nature of the patron so named. St. Patrick would rue the day if he was alive and well in NYC. After all he and Christ conquered paganism in Ireland. Now the pagans decide who is or isn’t to march? Bull Sh-t.

    If the good Cardinal won’t muster the guts to pull the curtain down, then he at the very least should use his position to remove the name, St. Patrick, from the parade and suggest it be called something secular.

    Unifying is one thing. But what are we teaching when we unite to bad ideas or bad behaviors.

    It seems Cardinal Dolan is happily widening the road that leads to perdition. Have another shot of Jameson good Prince and lead the sheep. 🙁

  • The good Cardinal loves to talk and opine
    Methinks however he has no spine
    The Church is engaged in a spiritual war
    Yet the good Cardinal appears to be bored
    Let’s march for Climate and Gays he proclaims
    Yet the unborn are seemingly left ignored by his fight so tame
    May the Blood of Jesus protect us all.

  • I guess this is the way its going to be, right? We cant fight it….we cant defeat this present and future reality? Pray… sure, I know. But I hear nothing about morality from the pulpit….nothing about deviant actions….or obeying the laws of this nation. I am totally surprised by how the last 5 to 10 years of Catholic social positions have changed in term of emphasis. There are no Cardinal OConnors or Bishop Sheens. Ora pro nobis !!!

  • Dan.

    The great value in an orthodox priest.
    Once you find a truly remarkable priest you want to support them in this battle and also praying hard for all priest is our responsibility.
    Our TLM is priceless, regardless of the opinions of progressive clergy.

Cardinal O’Connor, Paul Castellano, Cardinal Dolan and Mario Cuomo

Sunday, January 4, AD 2015

 

Back in December of 1985 Cardinal John O’Connor forbade a Catholic funeral mass for Mafia kingpin Paul Castellano:

Finn said a public Mass was banned because of the ”notoriety” of Castellano’s background.

The decision was made to avoid giving the appearance of church approval of the crime syndicate, Finn said.

Castellano, 70, had been the chief of the Gambino crime family, which is based in New York, for the last nine years, according to the FBI and the New York City police.

Without public announcement, Castellano’s body was transported from the Cusimano & Russo Funeral Home in the Gravesend section of Brooklyn at 9 a.m. Thursday and, police officials said, was buried at the nonsectarian Moravian Cemetery in Staten Island. A priest was present at the cemetery, Finn said.

O’Connor permitted Castellano’s family and other mourners to hold a private memorial Mass, without the body present, Finn said.

Castellano lived in a mansion known as the White House in the Todt Hill section of Staten Island. He was a parishioner of St. Ann’s Roman Catholic Church on Staten Island.

The decision to inter Castellano in a nondenominational cemetery was made by the family and was not the result of the cardinal’s prohibition, Finn said. The question of whether a person receives church funeral rites is a ”judgment call” based on the principles of church law, according to Rev. Richard P. McBrien, professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame.

Go here to read the rest.  Mario Cuomo’s funeral mass is set for Tuesday:

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38 Responses to Cardinal O’Connor, Paul Castellano, Cardinal Dolan and Mario Cuomo

  • Ever since the decree Ad Evitenda Scandala, promulgated at the Council of Constance by Martin V in 1418, it has been the practice to refuse Christian burial (except in the case of suicides) only when “some sentence or censure shall have been published or made known by the judge in special and express form, against some certain, specified person, college, university, church, community, or place.”
    There is something odd, surely, in refusing Christian burial to those who have lived and died in the peace of the Church, except on evidence that only emerged after their death.

  • “There is something odd, surely, in refusing Christian burial to those who have lived and died in the peace of the Church, except on evidence that only emerged after their death.”

    Which of course is not the case in regard to either Castellano or Cuomo.

  • “Which of course is not the case in regard to either Castellano or Cuomo.”

    Naturally, those who die under “some sentence or censure” promulgated against them have always been refused Christian burial.

  • I was an I&C technician and instructor at the Indian Point 3 nuclear power plant in NY State when Mario Cuomo shutdown the newly built Shoreham nuclear power plant on Long Island. I worked at Indian Point 3 for 18 years (from 1982 to 2000). Through most of that time the plant was owned by the New York Power Authority whose head is the governor of the state (in 2000 NYPA sold it to Entergy Nuclear). We all feared for our jobs in the late 1980s when Mario created LIPA to buy Shoreham for $1.00 from LILCO in order to decommission a brand new nuclear power plant whose fuel had been irradiated briefly only once during startup testing. Our plant manager at Indian Point 3 was taken from us and assigned to LIPA to oversee the de-commissioning. He has described it as the most depressing event of his career. Now his son Andy has been re-elected as governor and has been working with Riverkeeper – that eco-wako group – to shutdown Indian Point just as his father shutdown Shoreham. Andy has been doing this since he was NY Attorney General. It is therefore without coincident that both men advocate the murder of unborn babies and the sanctification of the filth of homosexual sodomy. It is all about constricting the energy supply, emasculating the military and police, stupidifying the education system, restricting health care access, and denigrating the morals of the populace. But Andy takes his apostasy and heresy to new depths of infamy – both men ostensibly Roman Catholic. Andy, having been married, now lives in adultery with his concubine Sandra Day, and has received Holy Communion from Bishop Hubbard of Albany (the same Bishop who authorized distribution of needles to Albany’s heroin addicts instead of working to get them sober) while in this state of mortal sin contrary to what St. Paul commanded in Romans chapter 11. So I have shed not one tear for Mario or for his family. What that man did to NY and what his son Andy is currently doing is abominable. But the people of NY voted for both of them, and they have gotten what they deserve.
    .
    By the way, the anti-nukes finally got Entergy’s Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant in Brattleboro shutdown – 70% of the state’s clean electricity gone. It was all arranged by collusion between profiteers in the natural gas industry, Hydro Quebec, and liberal progressive Democrat politicians in the Vermont legislature. Rest assured that Andy has Indian Point 2 and 3 that supplies 2000+ MW of safe, clean, low-cost electricity to NYC’s transit system on the chopping block, but the idiot has banned fracking for natural gas in NY State, so there will be NO electrical power when needed. This is what liberal progressive Democrats do. Yes, I despise, loathe, abhor, and detest the whole lot of them. They have robbed well-paying jobs from tens of thousands of people and ruined the lives of hundreds of thousands, not to mention the millions and millions of babies whom they have murdered.
    .
    And the Roman Catholic Church in the United States CELEBRATES men like Mario Cuomo and Ted Kennedy! Can you imagine if this were the Church at Corinth in Greece what letter St. Paul would have written for his third? Can you imagine the scathing they would get?
    .
    Always vote AGAINST the Democrats. And write your Bishop about this corruption.
    .
    BTW, I think NY State is in strong competition with Don’s native Illinois for its level of corruption.

  • A Mass was said for the repose of Castellano’s soul, which is all any soul and person needs. It was Castellano’s business to bless himself while alive and since he did not, the Catholic Church respected his wish.
    .
    Avoiding scandal to parishioners is necessary as parishioners had already been scandalized enough by Castellano’s lifestyle.
    .
    Mario Cuomo had been a great influence or rather scandal by moving a great number of peopel from the sanctuary into the abortuary.

  • I suppose many bishops believe it is worse to be accused of playing partisan
    politics than it is to give their flock the impression that they couldn’t care
    less about what public, notorious and unrepentant sinners get up to. Trouble
    is, by dodging their responsibility to the faithful to admonish these public,
    notorious and unrepentant sinners, they do give them political cover. In effect,
    by shirking their duty, these milquetoast bishops are playing partisan
    politics.
    .
    I recall when back in ’96 the great Bishop Fabian Bruskiewicz of Lincoln, Nebraska
    released a list of organizations Catholics of his diocese were forbidden to remain
    with or join– Planned Parenthood, Catholics for a Free Choice, Freemasons,
    Call to Action, etc.. The penalty for joining or remaining with the organizations
    listed was excommunication, which could only be lifted by the bishop. It was all
    really pretty straightforward, and the Catholics I know were all pretty much of
    the opinion that it was a shame that what should be common sense had to be
    legislated like that. What was truly embarrassing and cringe-making was the
    reaction of most of the other American bishops. Many of +Bruskiewicz’ fellow
    bishops released public statements criticizing his decision and declaring it
    ‘unpastoral’– basically, his brother bishops reacted with a collective eye roll
    and a smirk.
    .
    I very much doubt that our Lord went to the trouble to create our hierarchal
    Church so that its shepherds could “lead from behind”, mouth the words “who
    am I to judge?”, and let their flock form their faith on their own or fall in
    with some other shepherd…

  • Let’s be honest. There are three cardinals who run the USCCB. They are +Dolan of NYC, +O’Malley of Boston and +Wuerl of Washington. All three favor the Democrat Party and its views on social policy. All three favor giving Communion to whoever shows up in line. All three have a say in who gets to become a bishop, archbishop of Cardinal in the USA. +Wuerl’s fingerprints are all over the +Cupich appointment. To Wuerl, Dolan and O’Malley, Canon Law 915 is a “weapon” (Wuerl’s interpretation of it).

    They will NEVER speak out against any Democrat who supports abortion. NEVER – unless the Holy Spirit grabs them by the collars and shakes some sense into them.

    +Dolan will say nothing about father or son Cuomo’s abortion support. Nothing.

    Abortion will end in the United States when we say enough rosaries, throw out abortionist politicians and withhold money for so-called Catholic charities like CCHD.

  • “I very much doubt that our Lord went to the trouble to create our hierarchal
    Church so that its shepherds could “lead from behind”, mouth the words “who
    am I to judge?”, and let their flock form their faith on their own or fall in
    with some other shepherd…”

    Comment of the week Clinton! Take ‘er away Sam!

  • ‘Naturally, those who die under “some sentence or censure” promulgated against them have always been refused Christian burial.’

    Not a bad point MPS. Where is the courage in waiting until they are dead before kicking them in the _____?

  • I wonder if any bishops could ever be refused Christian burial? Is Weakland still alive?

  • sorry my comment was really uncharitable.

    Is there any idea that Mr Cuomo has made a good confession or any attempt to rectify his actions?

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  • Anzlyne wrote, “I wonder if any bishops could ever be refused Christian burial? Is Weakland still alive?”

    Cranmer, Latimer and Ridley spring to mind.

  • 100% agreement with DRM on this one. But I think the accolades will far exceed the condemnations.

  • Each of the men mentioned in the article gave public scandal to their faith while living. At death they were each given a particular judgment by Our Savior. They are each currently reaping their just rewards. However, it is very disheartening for me to see the leaders(supposed) of our Church here in America be so fearful of using Church law to repudiate sinful actions. By this I’m referring to Canon 915. Someone mentioned the Bishop from Lincoln, Nebraska, who did exercise his duties(correctly I believe) and how his fellow Bishops did nothing. Bottom line for all the great comments here is a complete lack of real leadership for our beloved faith in our Church. Check out all the Churches that have closed in America over the last ten years. Does anyone really think a Bishop would make a stand on an issue that this topic discusses? They would have to close another 50 to 75% of their churches. It all boils down to the collection basket. What could ever motivate them to make a tough decision that would devastate their revenue stream? FAITH would be my answer. Must not be much of that floating around, amongst the effeminate folks in our American USCCB. While I haven’t acted as of this writing, I’m actually considering giving to a cloistered order rather than in my parish.

  • The Venerable Fulton J. Sheen famously said, “Right is right if nobody is right, and wrong is wrong if everybody is wrong.” The problem with Cuomo is he basically is wrong about following bishops who don’t uphold the teachings of the faith. As he said, the polls indicate that 67% of the public want the bishops to mind their own business and 61% of Catholics concur. So Cuomo (like Jack Kennedy who planted this logic during his campaign for president) is following the polls not the teachings of the Pope. He is an apostate by rejecting the authority of the Pope and the Church and should be denied a Catholic Funeral.

    He also questioned when life begins. This is another pretend Catholic canard. All Cuomo need do is buy a science book. All he need to do is view a 4D sonogram. All he need do is view a section abortion. All he need do is follow the teachings of the Church.

    I also find Cuomo’s complaint about Democrats being criticized for their position on abortion has a significantly higher rate than Republicans. Sad, very sad that he thinks this is a political issue……this is a religious issue where people like Cuomo abandon the teachings of the Church for political purposes.

  • I wrote my own post on this on Saturday where I discussed Cuomo’s public scandal. Rather than clog your com-box, I offer the link if you’d like to connect to it since everyone here seems to be on the same page. Please feel free to share if you think it’s helpful.
    https://exmagnasilentium.wordpress.com/2015/01/03/mario-cuomo-new-york-governor-and-public-heretic/

  • Dennis Malone: “So Cuomo (like Jack Kennedy who planted this logic during his campaign for president) is following the polls not the teachings of the Pope.”
    .
    Robert Drinan begot the notion that: “I am personally opposed to abortion but I cannot impose my morality on anyone.” It was first presented to the Kennedys and has outlived its inventor.
    .
    It never bothered Drinan that he imposed his immorality on a whole nation and made us pay for it.

  • Father Drinan was a Jesuit, that about says it all….

  • Following in the infamous footsteps of Pontius Pilate who was personally opposed to crucifying Our Lord but……. Praying for only one public confession from a liberal Catholic Democrat at the end of life. Oh, the temerity of a self-righteous soul. How pitifully tragic.

  • Sorry but I must disagree. As a conservative Catholic & a politically conservative Republican, I have always vehemently disagreed w/ “Catholic” politicians who are pro-“choice”. I have written to many of them (including Ted Kennedy after his fatal condition was announced & his son Patrick who embroiled himself in a feud w/ his bishop) and have included booklets In in my correspondence urging them to come back to the teachings of the Church. No one knows the content of their last confession – perhaps Mario Cuomo had a “come to Jesus” moment. I believe in hell for the unrepentant mortal sinner and I believe in the absolution of sin thru an honest and sincere partaking in the sacrament of confession. I will leave the judgement to God.

    I do wish the Bishops would withhold Holy Communion from Catholics who advocate for legalized abortion. To me, that would be a “teaching moment” and might instruct a wayward Catholic sinner back to the path of grace.

  • “No one knows the content of their last confession – perhaps Mario Cuomo had a “come to Jesus” moment.”

    I pray that he did, but such a private moment in no way alters the public scandal of his life, and such a public scandal is why the Church has forbidden public funeral masses in the past.

  • yes Bob- “Following in the infamous footsteps of Pontius Pilate who was personally opposed …” Although it makes me squirm. I seek that coherence, that integrity of truth and struggle with exactly how to hate the sin and love the sinner. Am I in some way giving a pass, even though I am “personally opposed” when I don’t dissociate myself from my loved one in the “lifestyle” and I don’t even bring it up , only rarely, in our daily interactions.

  • A. Cloney: “I do wish the Bishops would withhold Holy Communion from Catholics who advocate for legalized abortion. To me, that would be a “teaching moment” and might instruct a wayward Catholic sinner back to the path of grace.”
    .
    When King David committed adultery with Bathsheba and murdered Uriah, the first born son, of adultery, died shortly after his birth, and God removed from King David the favor of building the Temple. God told David that his son, Solomon would build that Temple. And Solomon built the Temple. This is legal precedent that God’s favors are to be removed from the sinful for their past sins, for even King David was contrite and forgiven, and Solomon built the Temple.

  • of course I am not in the position of authority that Pontius had– or am I? As his mother could my concerted and aggressive fight back bring about a change of his course?

  • My thoughts were that of an honest good confession near death. How do we know, and how do we not judge. It makes me sick really that the Church has been lead down this path as it is very confusing. And very hard to raise up children in the “truths” of the faith when the powers that be seem to be exonerated in such fashion. I like the idea of a family Mass. But then again I am sure that Mario felt he was doing the “work” of the Lord and there was collateral damage taken in the deaths of the unborn. You know, survival of the fittest and all. Sort of like the “just war” theory. One can just about rationalize anything now, can we.

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  • The difference between a true pastor and shepherd, and, well, I don’t think I need to finish that sentence.

    The two bishops were/are very different from each other. Would that we had more Churchmen such as O’Connor.

  • Jeanne Rohl: The unborn are morally and legally innocent virgins, the standard of Justice for the state, our constitutional posterity. The duty of the state (Cuomo) is to deliver Justice and to protect and defend the innocent. The just war theory is based on defending the innocent and to deliver Justice. Cuomo may be judged for his sinfulness as well as for his ignorance to which he clung for his life.
    .
    Now, the left is crying “foul” The Right to Life has scientific DNA and ultrasound to prove the person in the womb exists and existence is the criterion for the objective ordering of human rights. The Right to Life has all the proof and The Right to Choose has nothing. The Right to Choose is crying “unfair”. The Right to Life took our arguments away for us and without a leg to stand on, it is unfair. Ignorance untrampled. Human sacrifice.

  • What is remarkable is that we should be focused on all the great things Governor Cuomo accomplished for the great state of New York…. The greatest thing about the Roman Catholic church is that there is room at the table for all God’s children and all those who seek God. I personally don’t believe in ending a pregnancy, but I do believe whole heartedly in birth control. I am a christian, a catholic and I’m sure I would be at odds with many who post here.

    Even more remarkable is that the social justice teaching of the church is what motivates the liberals and like me, the moderates. The anti abortion folks are motivated to save lives… so are the pro choice people…. they aren’t having the same conversation, but they are motivated by similar principles…..and Satan continues to divide us.. Shame

  • “The anti abortion folks are motivated to save lives… so are the pro choice people…. they aren’t having the same conversation, but they are motivated by similar principles…..and Satan continues to divide us.. Shame”

    This sentence sums up why a million unborn children are sent to their deaths in this country each year with the acquiescence of people like Andy who I am sure views himself as a good Catholic.

  • What is remarkable is that we should be focused on all the great things Governor Cuomo accomplished for the great state of New York

    So, how long have you been employed in the Democratic State Committee’s press office?

  • Andy, I can’t believe you wrote that we should focus on all the great things Cuomo did for NY. I will repeat what I have written before. I was an I&C technician and a training instructor at the Indian Point 3 nuclear power plant in NY State when Mario Cuomo shutdown the newly built Shoreham nuclear power plant on Long Island. I had worked at Indian Point 3 for 18 years (from 1982 to 2000). Through most of that time the plant was owned by the New York Power Authority whose head is the governor of the state (in 2000 NYPA sold it to Entergy Nuclear). We all feared for our jobs in the late 1980s when Mario created LIPA to buy Shoreham for $1.00 from LILCO in order to decommission a brand new nuclear power plant whose fuel had been irradiated briefly only once during startup testing. Our plant manager at Indian Point 3 was taken from us and assigned to LIPA to oversee the de-commissioning. He has described it as the most depressing event of his career. Now his son Andy has been re-elected as governor and has been working with Riverkeeper – that eco-wako group – to shutdown Indian Point just as his father shutdown Shoreham. Andy has been doing this since he was NY Attorney General. It is therefore without coincident that both men advocate the murder of unborn babies and the sanctification of the filth of homosexual sodomy. It is all about constricting the energy supply, emasculating the military and police, stupidifying the education system, restricting health care access, and denigrating the morals of the populace. But Andy takes his apostasy and heresy to new depths of infamy – both men ostensibly Roman Catholic. Andy, having been married, now lives in adultery with his concubine Sandra Day, and has received Holy Communion from Bishop Hubbard of Albany (the same Bishop who authorized distribution of needles to Albany’s heroin addicts instead of working to get them sober) while in this state of mortal sin contrary to what St. Paul commanded in Romans chapter 11. So I have shed not one tear for Mario or for his family. What that man did to NY and what his son Andy is currently doing is abominable. But the people of NY voted for both of them, and they have gotten what they deserve. By the way, the anti-nukes finally got Entergy’s Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant in Brattleboro shutdown – 70% of the state’s clean electricity gone. It was all arranged by collusion between profiteers in the natural gas industry, Hydro Quebec, and liberal progressive Democrat politicians in the Vermont legislature. Rest assured that Andy has Indian Point 2 and 3 that supplies 2000+ MW of safe, clean, low-cost electricity to NYC’s transit system on the chopping block, but the idiot has banned fracking for natural gas in NY State, so there will be NO electrical power when needed. This is what liberal progressive Democrats do. Yes, I despise, loathe, abhor, and detest the whole lot of them. They have robbed well-paying jobs from tens of thousands of people and ruined the lives of hundreds of thousands, not to mention the millions and millions of babies whom they have murdered.
    .
    This is what the Lord Jesus Christ says in Matthew chapter 22 about people like Mario and Andy:
    .
    11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment; 12 and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

  • Andy I can’t believe you don’t recognize that abortion is killing a person.
    …and “greatest thing about the Roman Catholic church is that there is room at the table for -all God’s children and all those who seek God- ..” Sometimes we are a little cavalier with counting ourselves in the intimacy of God’s family.
    IMO too many people give themselves a cozy place as a son or daughter of God when daily actually rejecting the authority and love of God as Father.

    John 8:44,”You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
    1 JOhn 3:10 “The children of God and the children of the devil are revealed in this way: all who do not do what is right are not from God, nor are those who do not love their brothers and sisters.*
    Romans 8:14 “For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

  • Andy: “The anti abortion folks are motivated to save lives… so are the pro choice people…. they aren’t having the same conversation, but they are motivated by similar principles…..and Satan continues to divide us.. Shame”
    .
    Abortion to save the life of the mother is, in fact, Thomas Aquinas’ just war theory. To save the life of the mother, the mother’s death must be imminent, right here, right now. The mother’s death may not be a prognosis, nor an absolute without her death presenting itself imminently. Without the danger of the mother’s death presenting itself, abortion is homicide, the intentional murder of an innocent sovereign human being without his being given due process of law.

  • Paul. It breaks my heart to align myself against nuclear power in that unless common people learn to control that power and respect that power, it may not be in their best interest. (and this from folks who do not know what to do with the power of regeneration, of producing our constitutional posterity. Saint Paul said that if you do not know what to do with it, cut it off. and Paul, I know you know where that may be annotated).
    .
    I also remember that it was discovered that the Indian Point nuclear plant was built on an earthquake fault. That the rock was already split and fissured and that it was only a matter of time. and Yes, I am a fussbudget and we may never get to Mars, but the immediate concern was that of sparing the population at hand. So many escape routes were put forth. However, in a true emergency, those escape routes will be clogged with empty gas tanked cars and trucks as when Sandy clogged the N.J. Turnpike, and Floyd clogged every westward escape route in South Carolina.
    .
    I am for nuclear power to propel us to Mars, Yay. even if we come back all green and funny looking from radiation in outer space. And I am for nuclear power going forward with the information we have at hand, here and now. But I do not trust a race of people who embrace the destruction of their own posterity without reason.

  • Mary, all nuke plants including Indian Point have to be designed for worst case earthquake per 10 CFR 50 Apoendix S located here:
    .
    http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part050/part050-apps.html
    .
    There is a Regulatory Guide for Seismic Design Classification – RG-1.29. It is located here:
    .
    http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/reg-guides/power-reactors/rg/01-029/01-029.pdf
    .
    The provisions for such design must be detailed in the plant’s Final Safety Analysis Report.
    .
    When an earthquake happens, I would feel safest in being at a nuclear power plant, including Indian Point, because I have seen the steel rebar as thick as a man’s arm, concrete 6 feet thick, piping held by huge hangers and snubbers, etc. Mary, with all due respect you have no idea of the robustness of the design.
    .
    BTW, it wasn’t the Tohoku earthquake that damaged the Fukushima reactors. It was the tsunami that flooded the intakes of the emergency diesel generators which caused loss of power and thus loss of cooling. The lesson is simple: don’t put your darn diesels on the shoreline. Bad engineering has bad consequences. One other thing – that can’t happen at Indian Point on the Hudson River because the diesels are located well above river flood level.
    .
    When I find NRC Inspection Reports on Indian Point seismic, I will post them. Be more concerned about an earthquake cracking the Kensico Dam and flooding the millions in downstream White Plains.

  • Thank you again, Paul. I did believe that Fukushima was caused by the earthquake. Wasn’t Indian Head built before earthquake design was introduced and before the fissure was ever found? Yes, and I remember the Johnstown flood. and I am a worrywart. God bless and keep you, Paul. You are making of me a convert to nuclear energy.

Cardinal Dolan: Company Man III

Thursday, September 18, AD 2014

Hmmm,  a debate has arisen on Saint Blogs as to whether Timothy Cardinal Dolan is a fool or a careerist.  Kevin O’Brien at Waiting for Godot to Leave addresses the controversy:

 

For those of you who haven’t been following, let me summarize in brief.  Cardinal Dolan has given what I consider to be a poorly reasoned, condescending and annoyingly folksy rationalization of his decision to serve as Grand Marshal of New York’s St. Patrick’s Day parade, which will now show the children along the route a group of “gay Irish” marching under a banner identifying themselves as such.  Dolan rightly points out that we condemn the sin, not the sinner – and of course gays have been marching in parades for centuries (though not parading about as gays).  He wrongly points out that if a man or a woman marches under a Gay Pride banner, it’s merely a way of indicating his or her sexual identity, and is in no way an endorsement of the sins that such a sexual identity seeks out.

I countered with an Open Letter to Cardinal Dolan in which I asked to march under the banner of IRISH ADULTERERS.  I point out that, even though the sin of adultery is condemned, and even though I have not given in to consummating fully the temptations of adultery, I still consider this my sexual identity and the Church should not judge me for that, and certainly by marching under a banner in which I identify myself as having an inclination to adultery, I’m not endorsing adultery.  Heavens no!  I’m simply Proud of my inclination.  I simply identify with my temptations.  I could have said more.  I could have suggested groups marching under such banners as GREEDY IRISH EMPLOYERS, or LAZY SLOTHFUL IRISH DRUNKS, or IRISH CHILD MOLESTERS.  I mean, we can’t judge a child molester’s soul, only his sins – although if Dolan is affirming anything in this scandal, it’s that we are defined by our sins.  

So that’s our story so far.  And the general take on this situation is that Cardinal Dolan is a naive fool.

Today, however, Kevin Tierney comments on the Dolan Situation at Red Cardigan’s blog (my emphasis)…

Maybe we have to consider the unpleasant possibility that His Eminence knows exactly what he is doing, he is not the fool, and that these are conscious choices.

Too many events have happened in Dolan’s history to suggest naivete or [foolishness]. There’s something else at work here.

No, it’s not him being a heretic, modernist, or whatever you want to say. Plain and simple, Dolan is a careerist. All of his controversial decisions from the Sheen dustup, to his role in the abuse scandals, to Holy Innocents, to now the parade have been about what’s best for the bottom line … his bottom line. What advances his profile is what is best for business.

This is one of those theories that fits all the facts – which means it’s probably true.

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27 Responses to Cardinal Dolan: Company Man III

  • I absolutely agree that Keven Tierney’s analysis– the Cardinal Archbishop
    of New York is all about what’s good for the profile of the Cardinal
    Archbishop of New York. Imagine for a moment if the parade included
    a group less sanctioned by the zeitgeist– say, a group marching under
    a banner promoting racial segregation. His Eminence would drop his
    absurd I-don’t-pick-who-marches rationalizations and resign as Grand
    Marshal before you could say “Vicar of Bray”.

  • Yup. Careerism doesn’t preclude making foolish choices. Maybe foolish choices is a higher risk for careerist, because of the changing winds and need for speed and doublespeak.

  • Dolan rightly points out that we condemn the sin, not the sinner

    Agree with O’Brien – it is not about gays marching, it is about gays marching their sin. FWIW, my vote goes for careerist.

  • I read Cardinal Dolan’s “apologia”-the reasoning behind his decision to be the Parade’s ‘guest of honor’. I honestly was not persuaded nor impressed

  • Timothy Cardinal Dolan is the guest of honor at the upcoming Catholic Charities of Pittsburgh benefit dinner. Had I known this BEFORE I made my United Way donations, Catholic Charities of Pittsburgh would not be getting a dime from me. I would have directed my money at another Catholic charity.

  • I’m not sure its as much of “do what the boss wants”, as a Cardinal kind of always does that. They are the boss’ closest advisors.

    For me, when I used the term, I saw it more as he acts like the administering and politcking is his job, not an unfortunate byproduct of a fallen world. His actions have always been about how to advance in the hierarchy, or how to further increase his profile.

    Buearcracies are normally good things. They exist for a reason. But they also have those who kinda forget why they are there. that’s what a careerist is. It might be rash, but I can’t fathom a situation where dolan would ever turn down the chance to have all the major news networks honed in on him and be endlessely debated in the media.

    That’s a wise business decision, but how much should the Church of God be run like a business?

  • Dolan calls for another one of your “Vicar of Bray” posts, Don.

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  • At least Esau did get his bowl of pottage.

  • How about marching under a Banner that reads: Catholics Against the Common
    Core Catholic Identity Initiative ? I don’t think it is a sin to oppose the adoption of
    CC by 100 Catholic dioceses.

  • It’s nice to see TAC finally coming around on Dolan. If I’m not mistaken, McClarey and Zummo were company men as well.

  • You are mistaken in that statement Robert. Actions govern our assessments of men here, not guesses as to future actions.

  • If any people qualify as non-company men, then surely those would be Mr. McClarey and Mr. Zummo.

  • Thank you, Mary, for your comment, which calls attention to the American Catholic Bishops’ ecstatic embrace of the Common Core educational standards. My heart is confused and deeply saddened, recognizing the Shepherds are more concerned with the bottom line than with their duty to protect Christ’s flock.

  • The parents have a right and duty to repel Common Core. It is time for tar and feathers, especially since the powers that be have forbidden our speaking with and to God. These people have placed themselves between our God-given freedom and their opinion.

  • If Cardinal Dolan disregards this excellent opportunity to have a Eucharistic procession in public to drive the devil under a rock as St. Clare did with the invading barbarians, the cardinal serves Obama better than the cardinal serves God.

  • To Penguins Fan and others who donate to United Way: Have you looked at all the charities under this banner? Many of them support abortion and/or embryonic stem cell research. And many of them, and United Way, collect donations through PayPal, a part of eBay, which is not a pro-life corporation by any means. Its sad that we have to constantly be on the watch for the devil in the details – like the Catholic school boards who refuse to drop the Box Tops for Education program, (BECAUSE IT PUTS SO MUCH MONEY IN THEIR COFFFERS?)even though it puts profits in the pockets of the very very-abortion Gen. Mills, a huge donor to Susan G. Komen.

  • I have never heard of a county in Ireland named Gay. Is that in Northern or Southern Ireland. The parade is about celebrating one’s Irish Heritage, not one’s sexuality. I have to believe that The Cardinal’s perspective is more akin to The Episcopal Church of the Holy Accommodation than it is to Roman Catholicism.

    Having watched a man who obviously enjoys his celebrity, perhaps he should consider another vocation.

  • This idea that Dolan broke bad only after he and his brother cardinals decided to plant Jorge Bergoglio’s backside on the Chair of Peter is complete crap and Mr. McClarey knows it. If Dolan had done this two years ago, Donald would have been silent or come up with some BS excuse defending Dolan.That was exactly he did two years ago when he was shilling for Dolan regarding the 2008 Al Smith Dinner despite the fact he already knew Dolan was an unrepentant slanderer. He gushed on like a tween girl in the presence of Justin Bieber about how “shrewd” Dolan was. My hunch that it was inconsequential and that it might have actually helped Obama a little bit borne true in spades. But that’s beside the point.

    When I expressed outrage over Dolan’s calumnious attack on Arizona’s SB 1070 in race baited language that Jeremiah Wright would be proud of, Donald responded thus: “You have an axe to grind against Dolan because he does not share your support for the Arizona law and it colors your perception of what I think was a clear defeat for the South Side Messiah.” http://the-american-catholic.com/2012/10/18/barbed-laughs/#sthash.D2khkRpC.dpuf

    Once again, Donald knew this was blatantly untrue. My problem with Dolan had nothing to do with his not agreeing with me on the law, but the fact Dolan used the race card to launch a vicious calumnious tirade against the State of Arizona. Donald has been, rightly I believe, terse with those on the left who play the race card in this way. Bet yet he got whiplash from looking the other way when Dolan did it.

    All this anti-Dolan sentiment on Donald’s part since the election of Pope Francis has less to do with Dolan himself than a club to beat Pope Francis with. As bad as his latest decision to be Grand Marshall in the St Patrick’s turned LBGT Pride Day parade and his “Bravo” comment about Michael Sam, it is not all surprising in light of the fact that he has taken pages out these people’s play books to smear good people’s efforts to protect those entrusted to them long before Pope Francis was even a figment of imagination. In fact, I would say it rather pales in comparison. Just think of this latest capitulation on Dolan’s part as royalty payment

    Some of Pope Francis’ actions are certainly blameworthy. But Cardinal Dolan’s actions have nothing to do with Pope Francis and everything to do with Timothy Dolan

  • 2008 Al Smith Dinner”

    I meant 2012

  • Hello, Edie,
    I use the United Way to donate money to clearly Catholic specific charities. I select them personally. United Way and my employer often push other so-called charities. I ignore those.

  • “If Dolan had done this two years ago, Donald would have been silent or come up with some BS excuse defending Dolan.”
    Rubbish.

    “That was exactly he did two years ago when he was shilling for Dolan regarding the 2008 Al Smith Dinner despite the fact he already knew Dolan was an unrepentant slanderer.”

    Wrong. Dolan provided a forum where Romney got in several good jabs at Obama. How that was blameworthy eludes me.

    “He gushed on like a tween girl in the presence of Justin Bieber about how “shrewd” Dolan was. My hunch that it was inconsequential and that it might have actually helped Obama a little bit borne true in spades.”

    No Greg, the outcome of the election had nothing to do with the AL Smith dinner. Romney got excellent press from it, and he lost the election for other reasons.

    “You have an axe to grind against Dolan because he does not share your support for the Arizona law and it colors your perception of what I think was a clear defeat for the South Side Messiah.” http://the-american-catholic.com/2012/10/18/barbed-laughs/#sthash.D2khkRpC.dpuf
    A completely accurate comment on my part, just as your current animosity to me stems entirely from my willingness to take Mark Shea at face value when he made a public apology.

    “All this anti-Dolan sentiment on Donald’s part since the election of Pope Francis has less to do with Dolan himself than a club to beat Pope Francis with.”

    Untrue. Dolan adjusted his positions to be in step with the Vatican and I have no use for trimmers, especially when they hold high religious positions in my Church.

  • First of all, I never said that the 2012 Al Smith dinner had any impact on the election. But it did help Obama in the sense that he came away from it looking better than he did prior to it. If you really think Dolan did with the purpose of giving Romney a venue to jab at Obama, boy have I got a deal on some oceanfront property in Kansas.

    Speaking of rubbish, this idea that Dolan simply adjusted his position to be in line with the Vatican is a steaming pile of it. The hacts clearly demonstrate that Doaln is jsut being who he hasa been all along. But let’s say for the sake of argument that that is the case. That you would have a problem with someone who hold “high religious positions” in the Church being a “trimmer”, but have no problem when that same individual engages in Al Sharptonesque race baiting calumny is reason why I find you loathsome. And why any honest person would as well.

    I am kind of shocked that you would bring up your embarrassing defense of Mark Shea’s public non-apology apology. Common sense would dictate that you let that die a quiet death,

  • “But it did help Obama in the sense that he came away from it looking better than he did prior to it.”

    Rubbish. Romney scored on Obama that night.

    “If you really think Dolan did with the purpose of giving Romney a venue to jab at Obama, boy have I got a deal on some oceanfront property in Kansas.”

    That is the function of the Al Smith dinner Greg in presidential election years. I am surprised that you think that did not enter into Dolan’s calculations. The audience was pro-Romney judging from the applause he got.

    “That you would have a problem with someone who hold “high religious positions” in the Church being a “trimmer”, but have no problem when that same individual engages in Al Sharptonesque race baiting calumny is reason why I find you loathsome.”

    Nah, Greg, the reason why you find me loathsome is because I do not share your obsessive hatred of Mark Shea. Since you find me loathsome I will spare you further interaction with me by banning you from this website. Peddle your bile elsewhere.

The Farce Continues

Friday, September 12, AD 2014

35 Responses to The Farce Continues

  • We can condemn Cdl. “Cheesehead” Dolan till the sheep come home, for his betrayal of Catholic morality, but remember, he would not be getting away with this perfidy unless the Father, who is in Vatican City, was ignoring this, or God forbid, approving of this.

  • I am hoping and praying that all Catholics withdraw from the “Saint Patrick’s Day” parade. The gay parade in San Francisco is their goal. Andrew Cuomo can be their grand marshal, or maybe Nancy Pelosi.

  • “The Church of Niceness” that has become the American Catholic Church has been doing this stuff since the 1960’s.

    But, I don’t know, St. Patrick’s Day has for some time, or at least it seems it has become just another “commercial holiday”, an excuse to get drunk and party. If all the day is now is an excuse for excess and decadence, then there is no reason to preclude anyone from marching in it is there?

  • For the record, I am not saying I agree with this move by the “company man”, but as Catholics, and Christians, we have to admit, that a lot of the reason we have been losing this culture war is in fact our own fault to some degree.

  • Hopefully other Catholic groups will follow the League’s example. Lay people do not have to follow their bishops into surrender.

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  • Apparently, (I’m waxing charitable here!) Cdl Egan (no Wait!) Dolan (or whatever faux Irish name) is unaware that for these people it’s never about honoring the Patron Saint, nor somebody’s ancestors/heritage, nor anything else so mundane.
    .

    It is solely and totally about them. This narcissism is a main difference with the rest of us and the main reason that gays should not be permitted to parade themselves behind banners promoting filthy proclivities.

  • The Catholic League and Bill Donahue would be marching if the Parade committee allowed a pro-life group to march carrying a pro-life banner. Seems that the Committee closed the door on any more groups marching. So, Donohue pulled out after that fact. What is very pathetic is that the Catholic League would have marched in the same parade with the LGBTs at all, no matter what good group may have also been marching. The parade should be boycotted by all the faithful … period. No pro-life group should march in a parade with sodomite banner carrying degenerates. Dolan is an utter disgrace. Just as he was at the Al Smith dinner with Obama and as he was with Cuomo.

  • “But, I don’t know, St. Patrick’s Day has for some time, or at least it seems it has become just another “commercial holiday”, an excuse to get drunk and party. If all the day is now is an excuse for excess and decadence, then there is no reason to preclude anyone from marching in it is there?”

    You would think that would preclude the Cardinal from marching in it.

  • It doesn’t take long to ruin something. The Archdiocese of New York was 15 years ago a vigorous critic of the prevailing culture. Then it was turned over to a church-o-crat who actually had done in his previous posting what most bishops are falsely accused of having done: put obstacles between sexually degenerate clergy and the administration of justice. Now its in the hands of this clown-car denizen.

    What was pleasant about Cdl. O’Conner’s stance on this issue was his steadfastness in informing this obnoxious lobby that there was an institution they were not going to co-opt.

    Edwin Faust has written that the post-Vatican Church is like ‘a mad mother who has abandoned her children’. That’s certainly the Church of Francis very succinctly described.

  • Yes, many people drink too much at the parade. Bars are open no doubt up and down 5th Avenue. But, still there are families enjoying the parade and they are not drinking. It isn’t Mardi Gras. Some commentors make it look like it’s a drunk fest. This is a gross exaggeration I think. Still, I do not think Saint Patrick is pleased with the lack of piety.

  • From Nobel Laureate Francois Mauriac;
    “We can not approve or practice publicly in the name of Caesar what the Lord condemns, disapproves, or curses, whether it be failure to honor our word, exploitation of the poor, police torture, or regimes of terror.”

    By stepping down as Grand Marshal Cdl. Dolan would give life to the Gay establishment. He could speak the truth of sin in actions that fail to strengthen the collective body of Christ. He could note that this days parade is named after a follower and active participant in strengthening the body of Christ. He could embrace the gay community by assuring them an eternal embrace when they die. For when they hear the truth come from the Cardinal’s lips they will have been better prepared to embrace Christ, then by leading them in a false death march. He, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, could give witness to millions by embracing the message; “sin no more.”
    Acts of the Apostles we’re worthy to be included into Holy inspired Text.
    My question to Cardinal Dolan is this.
    Are your actions worthy of your ordained office?

    St. Patrick’s Day could become more than an excuse to taste the Jameson.

    It could be a day to celebrate the individual receiving aid to conquer it’s vices. Invoking say…..Saint Patrick?!

  • I agree with Kelso “The Catholic League and Bill Donahue would be marching if the Parade committee allowed a pro-life group to march carrying a pro-life banner.” This is not right – what is Donahue thinking!? Can’t people think through things any more?!
    Oh my God help us- I remember when I first heard “disordered” and it was applied to SSA- but now I see that “disorder” applies to our Church and world leaders.

  • And the downward spiral continues. (the general degradation of this world and humanity at large)

  • Anzlyne wrote, ““The Catholic League and Bill Donahue would be marching if the Parade committee allowed a pro-life group to march carrying a pro-life banner.” This is not right – what is Donahue thinking!? Can’t people think through things any more?!”

    But is that right? Should Catholic Trades Unionists refuse to take part in a May Day demonstration because Communist groups, carrying their banners, also take part? Should Catholics not take part in the Fête de la Libération because Communist groups do so?

    For as long as I can remember (and that goes back to the 1950s) Catholics,Communists and Anarchists have taken part in peace marches, anti-apatheid demonstrations and a myriad others.

  • In answer to Michael’s question, Catholic union members might be well advised to avoid a May Day parade. They could start and lead a robust movement to honor St. Joseph the Worker. May Day divides people along class lines. Catholic union members should be about encouraging prayer for all, and working for unity of all in Christ.

  • I am not a beer drinker so my “boycott” would not have much effect but I understand the parade committee felt the effects of Guinness and Sam Adams pulling out their support for the parade unless LGBT groups be included. Shouldn’t we show our disgust with these beer manufactures? I say speak with your money and support other makers of beer.

  • How many others are tired of the annual nonsense that goes on around St. Patrick’s Day? It is an American excuse to go and get drunk, thanks to the big breweries.

  • Just watch out who you are calling a “Cheesehead”. I am a very proud traditional “Cheesehead” Catholic. The Cardinal is not a leader. The parade is a disgrace to St. Patrick. We have no leadership except for a few Bishops and Cardinals who don’t seem to get any coverage.

  • Should Catholic Trades Unionists refuse to take part in a May Day demonstration because Communist groups, carrying their banners, also take part?

    Yep.

  • We have no leadership except for a few Bishops and Cardinals who don’t seem to get any coverage.

    Cdl. Burke appears to have been put on ice. You never hear about the Eastern-rite bishops unless you subscribe to diocesan publications. Bp. Bruskewitz’ successor in Lincoln has the right history and association, FWIW.

  • When are we going to take the “Saint” out of St. Patrick’s Day, the way we have on Valentine’s Day? Any bets on how long it will be before that happens?

  • TomD, Well, here in Chicago, we have King Day.

  • It’s too bad that there can’t be arranged a second, alternative Saint Patrick’s Day parade to follow the official one (in which the group carrying their banners and thus making their participation all about them, are marching.) The second, unofficial, grass-roots parade would be open to groups and individuals interested in marching, not to draw attention to themselves or to their own personal causes, but to honor and celebrate the great Apostle of Ireland and their own faithful witness to the Catholic Faith. Period.

    And anyone or any group who wants to pull out of the official parade in protest, would be welcome to join the alternative parade. No banners or signs, please.

  • The question for Catholics is quite simple. Do we want a large, flabby and “tolerant” Church that turns a blind eye towards violations of Catholic teachings or a lean and mean Church that stands up for what it believes in and refuses to acquiesce to the whims of the day? The answer to such a question lies in our examination of Jesus, the Apostales, and the Saints, all of whom gave their lives to and for the truth. The Church will rue the day it decided to favor the former rather than the latter. The true believers will flee and the Church will overflow with those who do not accept Catholic teaching. They will remake the Church in their own image. That is actually occurring as we speak. Birth pains my friends….birth pains.

  • Somebody is playing with the Lake of Fire. Somebody high up in Church hierarchy is toying with a very unpleasant place.
    May the Lord God give Cardinal Dolan the graces to realize his pernicious errors, and repent and turn back to the Lord Jesus.
    popeleo13.com/pope/2014/08/19/category-archive-message-board-100-st-augustine-on-sex-3/

  • I taught at an all-boys Catholic high school in Manhattan 30 years ago. Since the school was near the parade route, we HAD to give the students the day off on the parade’s scheduled day. Even in the early 1980s, we deemed it too offensive, with all the drinking, to subject our teens to such a display. Perhaps it’s just as well that the school closed years ago–no chance of the kids being confused by lost sheep and a stumbling shepherd.

  • That’s the problem the “company man” didn’t get that title for nothing. He knows exactly what he is doing and while he proclaims to be interested in them he is no better than a politician. Always in or needs to be in the ‘lime light’. He supports and condones this mockery of the faith to coddle to their demands. He is caught up in his own arrogance and pride that he is blinded as to how far he has strayed from God and His truth. In the mean time he has caused many to stray and for this he will have to face God’s justice because of his position and authority. But on a bright note he has caused others like yourselves to see the errors and pray. We all must pray for “company man’s” soul. He’s fortunate that I’m not the pope as I would recalled him to Rome on St Patrick’s Day and then stripped him of his authority and permanently removed all faculties except that of a deacon. An then appoint and assign his replacement at the same time. He is tempting the Lord God and in his arrogance has convinced himself he is doing good.

  • In America several Catholic holy days have been taken over and secularized: All Saints has been taken over by Halloween, celebrating all sorts of oddities, Saint Valentines day has been reduced to Valentines Day celebrating romantic love, and Saint Patrick’s Day has become a ‘celebration of spring’. Of course the biggest secularization has been Christmas now reduced to “the Holidays’ which begins in earnest well before Halloween with a growing ‘mini-me’ version in July.

    Time for us to take back our holy days-and our parade!

  • Botolph wrote, “Time for us to take back our holy days-and our parade!”
    For as long as I can remember – and that is getting on for 70 years – French Catholics have been lamenting the fact that Corpus Christi is transferred to the following Sunday.
    I ask them why, if people feel so strongly about it, the bishops do not move it back to the Thursday.
    “Ah! But the government would not permit. They told the bishops that they could have only one holiday that always falls on a Thursday. With a holiday on a Thursday, people « Faire le pont » [make the bridge] and take a long weekend. The bishops, alas, they had to choose between Ascension Day and le Fête-Dieu [the Feast of God, as they call Corpus Christi]”
    “But just because the government will not make it a public holiday, is that any reason why it should not be a holiday of obligation?”
    « Impossible! Quel idée ! » &c, &c.

  • botolph, We, the people, can’t take anything back unless we have a pope and clergy who would support us. Most of the present day church leaders are spineless. Don’t forget, the goal of Vatican II was to bring the church into the modern world. And the church has done a great job doing that. Cardinal “Giggles” Dolan is an example of that. Don’t you see have traditional Catholics are treated by the Church?

  • Art Deco, there is a movement by the pope to remove any ideas of the Traditional Church. I guess the church doesn’t want full churches on Sundays, or full convents and seminaries and full Catholic schools. The modernists keep plugging along, thinking that VII was a success.

  • It is up to the laity to take back our public square, defend our freedom of religion, inspire good priests and bishops. It is up to the laity, the taxpayers to insist that the public square belongs to each and every citizen in joint and common tenancy, to demand the Eucharistic processions, the public rosary, the peaceable assembly called for in our First Amendment.
    The hierarchy must defend doctrine. The politicians must defend the common good and the general welfare.
    .
    The Great Liar has taken the Truth and subverted the truth for his own gain and our loss, giving man half truths, compassion for the woman, ignoring the human being, euthanasia, pornography, revolt against God. If “We, the People” want God we better stick it to the devil.
    .
    God is waiting.

  • Mary de Voe, I thought that leaders were supposed to do that.

Cardinal Dolan: Company Man II

Thursday, September 4, AD 2014

 

 

Timothy Cardinal Dolan continues to be the perfect Company Man.  Matt Abbott gives us the details:

In addition to the embarrassing saga involving Holy Innocents Church and Father Justin Wylie, we now have this:

    A homosexual activist group will march in New York’s St. Patrick’s Day parade next year, with the tacit approval of Cardinal Timothy Dolan.  Organizers of the parade announced on September 3 that [email protected] – described as a ‘lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual support group’ – will march under its own banner. In the past, the parade organizers refused to allow gay-rights groups to carry signs….
    Cardinal Dolan has been named as grand marshal for the 2015 parade.

 

Excuse me for being blunt, but by all appearances, the cardinal has (yet again?) capitulated to the “almighty” lavender lobby. Sure, the parade’s organizers may have capitulated first, but if the cardinal had some guts, he could – and should – have told the organizers, “Don’t change the rules simply to pacify homosexual activists. And if you do change the rules, I’ll publicly withdraw my support for the parade.”

Alas, Cardinal Dolan didn’t do that, and now we have more scandal.

The cardinal issued the following statement in response to the parade’s amended rules:

    The Saint Patrick’s Day Parade Committee continues to have my confidence and support. Neither my predecessors as archbishop of New York nor I have ever determined who would or would not march in this parade (or any of the other parades that march along Fifth Avenue, for that matter), but have always appreciated the cooperation of parade organizers in keeping the parade close to its Catholic heritage. My predecessors and I have always left decisions on who would march to the organizers of the individual parades. As I do each year, I look forward to celebrating Mass in honor of Saint Patrick, the patron saint of Ireland, and the patron saint of this archdiocese, to begin the feast, and pray that the parade would continue to be a source of unity for all of us.

 

A source of unity?

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29 Responses to Cardinal Dolan: Company Man II

  • In past years, didn’t various organizations withdraw from the parade because the homosexuals were not allowed (as such) to march? The children of this world are not only wiser in their generation than the children of light, but also have greater courage of their convictions.

  • Cardinal Dolan would like to be like Fulton Sheen – holy,witty, telegenic popular… He was a brilliant teacher, sincere, and good, committed to the Lord. When Cardinal Dolan dies I don’t imagine any dioceses fighting over his relics.
    .

  • “When Cardinal Dolan dies I don’t imagine any dioceses fighting over his relics. ”

    Comment of the week Anzlyne! Take ‘er away Sam!

  • The Saint Patrick’s Day parade is an excellent opportunity to include the Holy Eucharist in procession. Perhaps the Knights of Columbus can impress upon Cardl. Dolan. In the same vein, the Mass ought to be celebrated immediately before the Alfred Smith Dinner.
    .
    As Mother Angelica of EWTN says: “We are Catholic. Let’s live our Faith.”

  • Surpise, surprise! I am aghast! He supports communion for openly and long unrepentant adulterers, so what is the big deal?

  • Mary De Voe.

    Your idea is absolutely the “comment of the decade.” You have it!
    Procession of Jesus Christ Body Blood Soul and Divinity is the key to this otherwise shameful lack of discernment from brother Doland. No disrespect Cardinal.
    In all seriousness, this procession is perfectly timed. Please folks. Pass this idea on. Let it be for Gods glory. All else is vain and for mans glory.

    Mary De Voe! Your beautiful!

  • Not sure the venues are the place for a Eucharistic Procession/Exposition/Mass.

    “Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.”

  • Cardinal Dolan in NYC. Bishop Hubbard in Albany. No wonder Andy Cuomo and RFK Jr get away with the crap that they do. Adulterers, supporters of homosexual marriage, legitimatizers of baby murdering. Yet they parade themselves up for Holy Communion with full clerical approval. Did I mention that they are anti-nuclear activists, too, bent on shutting down my alma mater, the Indian Point Energy Center, provider of 2000 MWe of safe, clean, pollution free electricity and 2000 high paying jobs? Yet Dolan will receive news of that shutdown will high praise for environmental consciousness. I am beyond disgusted. The people of New York fully deserve both Dolan and Cuomo. Fully and completely. Let them all freeze in the dark this winter. Maybe spring at St Patrick’s Day and the gays prancing about will thaw them out. Sorry. Am in a foul mood at what these jerks are doing and how Dolan encourages it.

  • Glad you posted this Donald before I did, otherwise I would have used language that would have led to my banishment from Tito.

  • Is this not a war?

    A battle for souls?

    Who better than the King of all Nations to stir the hearts of His wayward sons and daughters.

    Let Havard’s black mass remind us of His Presence in public. Pearls before swine……not in this case.

  • His Eminence offers us his excuse that he has nothing to do with the
    selection of the groups that participate in the St. Patrick’s Day parade.
    So I have to wonder: would he still agree to be Grand Marshal if the
    parade included groups less loved by the zeitgeist– say, a group
    advocating pedophilia or anti-semitism or racial segregation? Would
    we still be treated to the sight of His Eminence grinning and waving
    at the head of the parade, or would he finally stop it with the lame
    rationalizations and act as a Catholic should?

  • The question of Cardinal Dolan’s decision to accept the office of Grand Marshal in the St Patrick’s Day parade should serve as a reminder that an important part of moral theology is casuistry, in the technical sense, that is, the application of admitted moral principles to concrete situations.
    One recalls the well-know episode of Napoléon’s marriage to Marie-Louise, Archduchess of Austria. Cardinal della Somaglia told M. Emery Supérieur of St. Sulpice and a notable moral theologian that he could not attend without wounding his conscience. M. Emory told him that, in that case, he should on no account do so, for any consideration whatsoever. It transpired that M. Emory had been consulted by a number of the other 18 cardinals, then in Paris and he had told them he thought they could attend the ceremony with a clear conscience. In a letter to Cardinal Fesch, the Emperor’s uncle, M. Emory explained this apparent inconsistency. He personally saw no harm in attending, but he had given his advice to Cardinal della Somaglia on the basis that “one should never act against one’s own conscience, even if it were erroneous.” [qu’on ne devait jamais, agir contre sa conscience, même erronée] In the event Cardinal della Somaglia kept to his view, contrary to M. Emery, and did not attend the marriage ceremony. Both men, we may suppose, shared the same principles on the indissolubility of marriage, the jurisdiction of the Holy See, remote material cooperation and the obligation not to give scandal; they differed on the application of these principles in the particular case and who is to say which of them was right?

  • I would caution against jumping to any conclusions at this time regarding the Sheen relics dispute. It COULD be — based on what I’ve read — just as much or more a case of intransigence on the part of the Peoria Diocese as it is of intransigence on the part of the NY Archdiocese.

    Abp. Sheen chose to be buried in New York, and it appears his surviving relatives want that to remain the case. The dispute, from what I can gather, centers on how, or if, the remaining requirements of the Sheen sainthood cause for examination of the body/relics can be handled by the Peoria Diocese without going against that. Without knowing all the details, it’s hard to say which side is right and which is wrong here.

  • I have been stunned by both ‘news accounts’. I would be a bit more hesitant about seeing this Parade decision in light of Pope Francis’ Petrine ministry but that is a different subject. I believe that both decisions arise within the Archdiocese of New York and with Cardinal Dolan.

    In reading up on the subject of the Parade I realize that the Parade really has been ‘secular’ at least since the mid-nineties. The relationship between the Parade and the Church (Archdiocese) seems to be tenuous at best. There certainly have been storms between Parade organizers and the Cardinals of New York before. I certainly applaud the earlier Cardinal Archbishops in how they dealt with those disputes. However, I am left scratching my head on this one. I can not read Cardinal Dolan’s heart nor mind, so I will not get into possible motivations etc. I do think that the time has come to have a divorce between the Archdiocese of New York and the Parade, once and for all. We can all read the handwriting on this wall and what direction the Parade and its organizers are going in.

    The second news blurb, concerning the ‘canonization’ process of Bishop Fulton J. Sheen on a semi-permanent hold really has me fuming. I am old enough to remember watching his shows when they were originally aired. Because of my age at the time I did not understand all of what he said, but to have a bishop of our Church on TV for all to see and hear, communicated a great deal to me even on the symbolic level. I would later be blessed with actually going to hear him speak within the last year of his life. While older and more frail, the fire was still within him and emanating from his eyes.

    I could not believe in this day and age two bishops (dioceses) fighting ‘over the bones’ of a saint. It sounded so Medieval. Here I am not in any way downplaying the cult of saints, but criticizing two bishops acting as if we have not learned anything from the history of the Church. Good grief. Again, to be honest, of the two bishops I found more just cause with the bishop of Peoria. Peoria was the ‘hometown’ of Bishop Sheen as well as the diocese that was promoting his cause, especially since New York had not simply failed but actually refused to do so in the past. Now New York and its Cardinal get into the act when an American saint’s cause is nearing canonization.

    On one level it seemed to be a matter of who would have the ‘relics’ in order to have a pilgrimage site. However, I read one commentary that has given me pause in my thinking. The pundit pointed out just how ‘incarnational’ all this was. As George Weigel points out in his Letters to a Young Catholic, the Catholic Way is a “habit of being’ and this ‘habit’ is incarnational, very gritty, touchy etc. It really does count ‘who has the bones’.

    I know that the Vatican tried to mediate the situation but it seems that New York and its Cardinal are playing hardball with Peoria-I would be scandalized if I was not a student of Church history. This too will pass. However I would encourage coming to a mutual agreement so that the real issue, the canonization of Fulton J Sheen take place.

    The Archdiocese of New York and its Cardinal have not assisted themselves at all this week. It has not been a good week. Perhaps some people need a vacation etc 😉 but the ‘thinking’ has not been clear at all. Time to get back to work and be Catholic, faithful to the whole teaching of the Church [Parade issue] and not tribal or even petty [Sheen issue]

  • Philip: “Mary De Voe.
    Your idea is absolutely the “comment of the decade.” You have it!
    Procession of Jesus Christ Body Blood Soul and Divinity is the key to this otherwise shameful lack of discernment from brother Doland. No disrespect Cardinal.
    In all seriousness, this procession is perfectly timed. Please folks. Pass this idea on. Let it be for Gods glory. All else is vain and for mans glory.
    Mary De Voe! Your beautiful!”
    .
    Philip! You’re beautiful.
    .
    Botolph: It would appear that Archbishop Sheen’s third great miralce is to be the restoring of order between the two dioceses.
    .
    Let me add that if the Diocese of New York abandons the Saint Patrick’s Day Parade, the organizers and the church must take back Saint Patrick’s name as St. Partick’s name belongs to the Catholic Church and no one else, as the Catholic Church gave Patrick the title of saint, and as someone else has already pointed out to take back Saint Nicholas, Santa Claus, as a Catholic saint.

  • In the interest of fairness, justice and charity I must make a correction concerning the Bishop Sheen issue. It seems that it was the Bishop of Peoria who is the one responsible for bringing the canonization process to a halt. The venerable remains of Bishop Sheen could be inspected etc in New York but apparently that is not enough (or desired) by Peoria. This is nuts! It is Medieval! With all the issues going on facing the world and the Church and this cannot be straightened out by the two ecclesiasts????

  • Botolph

    Can one imagine the fuss, if Trier were to lay claim to the relics of St Ambrose of Milan, on the grounds that he was born there? Or if Smyrna were to claim the relics of St Irenaeus from Lyons?

    The old calendars are full of feasts of the translation of this saint or that. Thus, one finds the feast of St Martin (a Scottish term day, “Martinmas”) on 11 November and the feast of his translation on 4 July. The dedication feast of Westminster Abbey is 13 October, the translation of St Edward the Confessor.
    The history of how such relics were obtained is not always edifying. There is an intriguing story of how the relics of St Nicholas (Santa Claus), born in Patara and bishop of Myra in Cappadocia ended up in Bari; war between the Duchy of Apulia and the Most Serene Republic was only narrowly averted.

  • Mary De Voe wrote, “Saint Patrick’s name as St. Partick’s name belongs to the Catholic Church and no one else.”
    But the Cathedral St Patrick built in Armagh in Ulster belongs to the Church of Ireland (Anglican), so the Dean and Chapter might dispute your point. They were incorporated by a charter of Elizabeth I, procured by Lord Sussex, Lord Deputy of Ireland in 1560, “for the maintenance of the Protestant Reformed Religion, by law established.”

  • MPS

    Yes, sadly I am aware of many of the stories of these ‘translations’ [not always done peacefully or even uprightly (some frankly were stolen!)] While the ‘cult of the saints’ has been part of our tradition from the beginning, and the veneration of their sacred remains cherished from earliest times [note well that there has never been a claim to have the ‘relics’ of the Virgin Mary], the focus on relics as sacred powerful things in an almost Indiana Jones mentality seems to have come relatively much later with the influx of various Germanic peoples into the Church

    I just thought we had grown up more, to be frank. Stop the nonsense and let’s get on with Venerable Fulton J. Sheen’s canonization process!

  • Regarding the case of Venerable Archbishop Sheen, perhaps a solution
    could be found in the Judgement of Solomon– perhaps the two dioceses
    could share the relics by dividing them? That is certainly a solution the
    Church has used in the past…
    .
    MPS, regarding your suggestion that the Vicar of Bray, er, the Cardinal
    Archbishop of New York is acting on his conscience by remaining as Grand
    Marshal of a parade that includes a homosexual advocacy group– I’m
    at a loss to understand how his conscience could be demanding he not step
    down. Your post seems to suggest that His Eminence’s well-formed
    conscience could be demanding that he remain as Grand Marshal, scandal be
    damned.
    .
    In short, I could see how stepping down could be due to the promptings of
    His Eminence’s conscience. But how on earth could it violate the Cardinal’s
    conscience — how could he believe it to be sinful— to resign as
    Grand Marshal?

  • Regarding Cardinal Dolan and the St. Patrick’s parade, I heard an interesting argument in his defense yesterday from Al Kresta on Ave Maria (EWTN) radio. I didn’t catch the entirety of the show but this is what I gathered:

    Why should the Church, in essence, give up or concede its presence in an otherwise morally neutral event, in which the Church has participated for generations, just because a small fraction of the participants happen to be gays or gay activists? Apparently, the parade is not an official Archdiocesan event and the Cardinal no longer has control over who does and does not march (if indeed he ever did). The powers that be have decided to let the gay/lesbian group participate, but they are also willing to let the Church be represented as well. So does the Church have to “pick up its marbles and go home” or should the Cardinal stand his ground and say, we have just as much right to be here as they do?

    If this event were a Gay Pride parade or a pro-choice march specifically intended to celebrate something inimical to the Catholic faith, then Kresta agreed that it would be wrong for the Cardinal or any Catholic to participate. But that is not the case here — the parade is a celebration of Irish-American heritage, of which the Church has long been a part.

    Also, I note that holiday and civic parades usually attract a wide variety of groups that don’t always agree with one another — such as competing political candidates. If GOP Candidate X marches in a community parade several blocks behind Democratic Candidate Y, are we to assume that Candidate X endorses Candidate Y, or vice versa, merely because they are both in the same parade?

    If the mere presence of a gay group at an otherwise neutral civic event requires Catholics to bow out, what kind of precedent does that set? Does this stance really maintain the moral integrity of the Church, or does it, in essence, allow us to be “bullied” out of the public square when we have as much right to be there as anyone else? It’s a question I think is worth considering.

  • Clinton wrote, “But how on earth could it violate the Cardinal’s conscience — how could he believe it to be sinful– to resign as Grand Marshal? But how on earth could it violate the Cardinal’s conscience — how could he believe it to be sinful– to resign as Grand Marshal?”
    Well, to recur to my earlier example, in much the same way that Cardinal Fesch and M. Emery felt they should attend Napoléon’s wedding, whilst Cardinal della Somaglia felt that he should not.
    As M. Emery put it, “Not that the inconveniences could authorise an attendance that was illicit, but these inconveniences are the strongest reason [une raison très-forte] to consider the more attentively whether it is possible, whether attending is really illicit and whether the conscience one has formed on that subject is not, perhaps, an erroneous conscience.”
    The “inconveniences” are rather similar in the two cases: wounded feelings, disappointed expectations, indignation, or at least, displeasure provoked, the souring of relations, &c, &c.

  • “Why should the Church, in essence, give up or concede its presence in an otherwise morally neutral event, in which the Church has participated for generations, just because a small fraction of the participants happen to be gays or gay activists?”

    Because it purportedly honors a Saint, and because the Archdiocese has always had a large role to play in it. Dolan has now cravenly allowed the gays to have yet another platform to convince people that their is nothing wrong with the intrinsically disordered lives they lead. Don’t think for a moment he did not sign off on this. I await with eager anticipation his reaction when the Satanists now cue up to join the march.

  • Elaine Krewer

    A very interesting post.

    I wonder how the parade organizers would respond to a request by the Orange Order, or the Apprentice Boys for a place in the parade?

    If the parade is truly civic and non-sectarian, a celebration of Irish nationality, why should not the vibrant Loyalist tradition be represented?

    Perhaps, it is. Does anyone know?

  • MPS: “But the Cathedral St Patrick built in Armagh in Ulster belongs to the Church of Ireland (Anglican), so the Dean and Chapter might dispute your point. They were incorporated by a charter of Elizabeth I, procured by Lord Sussex, Lord Deputy of Ireland in 1560, “for the maintenance of the Protestant Reformed Religion, by law established.”
    .
    Sadly the St. Patrick’s Cathedral built in Armagh by Saint Patrick has nothing to do with Saint Patrick’s sainthood.

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  • As depressing as this news is: a Cardinal caving in to a homosexual group, agreeing to marshal what appears now to becoming a false parade, and a bait and switch over a future canonized saint, there is a silver lining…
    The silver lining is that this putrid colored lampshade has been put on a pedestal for all to see.

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Give Them That Old Time Religion: Socialism

Wednesday, June 18, AD 2014

 

“In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of state, the so-called ‘Welfare State.’ This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoke very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the ‘Social Assistance State.’ Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good. “By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending, In fact, it would appear that needs are best understood and satisfied by people who are closest to them who act as neighbors to those in need. It should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need.”

Saint John Paul II, Centissimus Annus

 

 

 

 

Timothy Cardinal Dolan wrote a mainstream defense of the free market which appeared in the Wall Street Journal on May 22.  Go here to read it.  His word set off some “Catholic theologians” who believe that the current Pope will allow the Church to go full frontal socialist.  Matt Archbold at Creative Minority Report gives us the details:

A number of theologians took aim at Timothy Cardinal Dolan’s defense of free markets and his warning about the dangers of collectivism’s inherent violation of human rights.

Cdl. Dolan wrote, “the answer to problems with the free market is not to reject economic liberty in favor of government control. The church has consistently rejected coercive systems of socialism and collectivism, because they violate inherent human rights to economic freedom and private property. When properly regulated, a free market can certainly foster greater productivity and prosperity.”

Charles J. Reid, Jr., Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas responded in the Huffington Post that Cardinal Timothy Dolan “misunderstands Church teaching on both economics and the role of the state.”

Reid labeled the free market a “sociopathic economy” and said that only “a reinvigorated state would bring to bear in the regulation of the marketplace a set of humane values” and “rebalance the marketplace so as to fairly serve the interests not of capital alone, but of all employees and all interested human beings. “

Joseph A. McCartin, director of the Kalmanovitz Initiative for Labor and the Working Poor at Georgetown University reportedly criticized Cdl. Dolan, saying “It is a shame that the Cardinal seems more interested in making Pope Francis’ statements seem less threatening to free-market-celebrating Americans than he is in applying the Pope’s critique to the American scene as it really exists.”

In the same piece in the National Catholic Reporter, Fr. Drew Christiansen S.J., professor of ethics and global human development at Georgetown University, also had some pointed remarks aimed at Cdl. Dolan. “Cardinal Dolan misses what Pope Francis sees so clearly,” he reportedly said. “The growth of inequality everywhere including the U.S. is a result of American-style capitalism and the financialization of the economy.”

He added pointedly that he believed, “too many well-to-do Catholics prefer getting their economic ethics from the Acton Institute rather than the Vatican.”

John Gehring, Catholic program director at Faith in Public Life, reportedly said Dolan’s arguments “provide moral cover to free-market fundamentalists and anti-government zealots who preach a gospel of radical individualism that Catholic teaching rejects. Furthermore, he said “the cardinal veers close to echoing GOP talking points.”

Professor Mark Allman, chair of Religious & Theological Studies Department at Merrimack College, reportedly said Dolan’s piece “reflects a heavily individualistic understanding of morality.” He bemoaned that “there’s no mention of the need for structural change.”

And you wonder why so many kids come out of Catholic colleges as progressives.

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15 Responses to Give Them That Old Time Religion: Socialism

  • Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical, Quod Apostolici Muneris of 1878, still applies:

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_28121878_quod-apostolici-muneris_en.html

    PS, whatever happened to that blog post on the bishops and sex abuse? I was about to read it and then it was gone.

  • Reid’s distinct idea is to double the minimum wage and promote the sort of trade unionism which has made General Motors what it is today.
    __
    Christiansen fancies that ‘no holes barred American Capitalism’ nearly took down the world economy. But the most salient problems concerned the decay of underwriting standards at mortgage lenders (promoted by regulators and by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac), the hypertrophy of the secondary mortgage market and the escalating market share of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (who benefit from a regulatory matrix they influence through contacts in Congress and in the Democratic Party generally), the merger of deposits-and-loans banking with the capital markets (a phenomenon common in Europe, most notably in Germany’s ‘social-market economy’), thin capital cushions at American banks and securities firms (again, Europe’s were worse), and the failure of the regulatory apparatus to keep pace with technics of finance (notably with regard to the advent of credit-default swaps).
    __
    The firms responsible were, again, deeply implicated in the political favor bank (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac), part and parcel of our most intensely regulated economic sector (American International Group), highly responsive to the social goals of Democratic administrations (Countrywide, Washington Mutual, Freddie Mac), or persuaded the government would rescue them (Lehman Brothers).
    __
    Among perpetrator enterprises, the best examples of no-holes-barred American capitalism would be Wachovia, Citigroup, Merrill Lynch, and Bear Stearns. All four are in very regulated sub-sectors. Standard procedures and extant institutions were adequate to finesse the problems which Wachovia (and Washington Mutual) posed and some minimal brokering was sufficient in the case of Bear, Stearns. Much of the trouble with processing a bankruptcy of Citigroup was that it was not an example of ‘American capitalism’ but a global firm with interests in the United States; two-thirds of its deposits were domiciled abroad.

    It does not seem to occur to Christiansen that there might be systemic dysfunctions which limit the capacity of the regulatory state to contain disasters.
    =
    The rest of them just appear to be tossing about verbiage.

  • Art Deco: “The rest of them just appear to be tossing about verbiage”.
    .
    Absolutely anyone can call themselves a ‘Catholic theologian’ these
    days. Our bishops have abdicated any sort of oversight, and the mandatum
    required by Canon Law is routinely ignored. The old practice of issuing an
    imprimatur and a nihil obstat has been largely abandoned, even
    in the instance of theology textbooks, which Canon Law still demands.
    .
    The Church our so-called ‘theologians’ are supposed to serve has no part in the
    credentialing industry. Rather, it is the gatekeepers of the graduate programs
    at our increasingly un-Catholic universities, the tenure committees at the
    same, and the publishers and editors of theology texts and journals. Those
    are now the people who determine who is a “Catholic theologian”. (Note that
    none of those people need necessarily be Catholic themselves). Bishops are
    not part of the equation.
    .
    Ask yourself this– could I find a “Catholic theologian” who could argue for
    the virtues of abortion, “gay marriage”, pedophilia, eugenics, communism,
    indifferentism, or modernism? Yes, of course! It’s child’s play to find someone
    calling themselves a “Catholic theologian” who will deny the very divinity of
    Christ. Theology used to be called the “Queen of Sciences”, but these days
    she’s just a laughingstock.

  • Art,

    Regarding FNMA/FHLMC political graft:

    9/18/2008: GWBush signed the housing and Fannie Mae bailout bill, after the Senate passed it with 72 votes. An underreported story is that Majority Leader Harry Reid refused to allow a vote on Republican Jim DeMint’s amendment to bar political donations and lobbying by FNM and FRE.

    1980-2007 FNM cash recipients (partial list):
    Brookings institute = $3,906,000
    ACORN = $797,000
    Rainbow Coalition = $660,000
    Center for Policy Alternatives = $635,000
    Congressional Black Caucus = $608,000
    Congressional Hispanic Caucus = $28,000
    Barrack Obama – $104,000

    Jesse Jackson’s Citizenship Education Fund, an offshoot of his Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, has received more than $500,000 from Fannie and Freddie since 1996. A decade ago Mr. Jackson accused Fannie and Freddie of discriminatory lending practices. Those charges of racism went away once the graft money started flowing. Groups on the left complain about “corporate welfare” all the time, but curiously nary a one has opposed the Fannie and Freddie bailout — which amounts to one of the biggest corporate welfare gifts in U.S. history.

    Fannie gave $10,000 to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, $10,000 to third-ranking House Democrat Rahm Emanuel, $5,000 to Barney Frank, $10,000 to Republican House whip Roy Blunt, $8,500 to Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and $7,500 to Minority Leader John Boehner and . . . you get the picture.

    A year (2007) before the crisis, Freddie Mac’s foundation handed out $25 million to political groups, think tanks and other Beltway outfits, more than any other foundation in the country, according to the Washington Business Journal. Guess which foundation ranked number two? Fannie Mae gave out $21 million.

    Pacem, Art, “systemic dysfunctions which limit the capacity of the regulatory state to contain disasters.” Said “system dysfunction” is endemic to the administrative economy (not a free market) which exponentially magnified the disaster, if it were not the casue of the disater.

    Bankers, lobbyists and politicians blew up the economy. Then, they bailed out each other. Then, they created even more laws/policies/regulations impeding economic growth and further misallocating capital. The Fed, FDIC, FHA, FHLMC, FNMA, HMDA, HUD, SEC, UST, et al created “administrative” (e.g., housing, but also equities, bonds) markets with prices affected by government policies, not free market forces. Then, the lying rats blamed the “market.”

  • Clintion,

    I aplogize in advance.

    My definition of theology: Making up stuff about God. Philosophy is making up stuff about stuff.

    I’ll stop now.

  • The contradiction at the heart of liberalism (including classical liberalism) lies in its simultaneous assertion of popular sovereignty and universal human rights.

    Rousseau saw this very well. “Each man alienates, I admit, by the social compact, only such part of his powers, goods and liberty as it is important for the community to control; but it must also be granted that the Sovereign [the People] is sole judge of what is important,” for “ if the individuals retained certain rights, as there would be no common superior to decide between them and the public, each, being on one point his own judge, would ask to be so on all; the state of nature would thus continue, and the association would necessarily become inoperative or tyrannical.”

    As Theodore Roosevelt put it in 1910, “Every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it.” Unlike Rousseau, Roosevelt did not enter into the all-important question of who decides.

  • “The contradiction at the heart of liberalism (including classical liberalism) lies in its simultaneous assertion of popular sovereignty and universal human rights.”

    MPS, that’s just a tension, not a contradiction. The tension is reduced by adherence to limited government. Only people temped by majoritarian tyranny see a contradiction. And yes, near the end of his otherwise fine career Teddy Roosevelt was tempted by such.

  • The Treasury department was in the summer of 2008 approached by an outside expert with a plan to re-capitalize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac through a debt-for-equity swap. They rejected it in favor of financing the deficits of the firms for years on end. Not to keep flogging this, but large slices of the public do not realize that bank holding companies have paid back over 95% of the money they were loaned through the Capital Purchase Program and paid dividends on the preferred stock in the interim. The losses to the Treasury were on Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the auto industry components, and AIG; less than a 10th of those losses are attributable to AIG (the only money pit that was not a Democratic Party client).

  • I don’t buy into the Clinton campaign’s dictum: “It’s the economy, stupid.” Cardinal Dolan may get the economy nearer right, but he wanders away on other issues. Those other Catholic thinkers listed here are misfiring probably at least partly because they (and we) have been misled by bishops and priests as to justice.

  • I commented on this subject ages ago lol. There are two traditions within Catholic Social Teaching. Both condemn Marxism and statism. Both take Rerum Novarum of Leo XIII as foundational. However one emphasizes the need for the society ( I don’t want to localize this to the State) to intervene to assist ” the poor”,etc and build on this principle. this tradition received new life with Paul VI’s Populorum Progression ( Progress of People) and even by, a surprise for conservatives, Pope Benedict VI’s Caritas in Veritatis Those in this tradition question, sometimes vehemently, such phenomenon as ” lasses-faire capitalism”

    The other tradition however, focuses on Leo XIII’s pointed call for respect for private property, emphasize Pius XI’s principle of subsidiarity found in Quadragessimo Anno (On the Fortieth Year of Rerum Novarum), and St John Paul’s Centissimus Annus (on the One Hundreth Year of Rerum Novarum) which recognizes the dignity of the person, his/her freedom etc the dangers of over control etc. of economic forces-with the understanding that each person and the whole culture work in economic issues recognizing, dignity of persons, the common good, solidarity etc. in short there is no economy tha t does not serve people and does not work within moral principles based on human ecology/ natural law

    I see the two traditions merging in the future, however it will take some time. Both bear the truths of Catholicism, emphasizing certain for the time being, different elements.

  • TomD said: “The tension is reduced by adherence to limited government. Only people temped by majoritarian tyranny see a contradiction. And yes, near the end of his otherwise fine career Teddy Roosevelt was tempted by such.”

    Mr. TomD,

    Here, here!

  • Botolph

    Mgr Ronald Knox argued that “traditional Christianity is a balance of doctrines, and not merely of doctrines but of emphases. You must not exaggerate in either direction, or the balance is disturbed.”

    He offers some examples (less controversial, perhaps than Catholic Social Teaching, but illustrating your thesis), “An excellent thing to abandon yourself, without reserve, into God’s hands; … but, teach on principle that it is an infidelity to wonder whether you are saved or lost, and you have overweighted your whole devotional structure… Conversely, it is a holy thing to trust in the redeeming merits of Christ. But, put it about that such confidence is the indispensable sign of being in God’s favour, that, unless and until he is experimentally aware of it, a man is lost, and the balance has been disturbed at the opposite end;”

  • In sum, the economy is too important to be left to the experts.

    Economics is politics: Economic arguments are used as often justification for whatever politicians want.

    The economists/experts did not foresee the financial crisis and have changed anything. The latest financial crisis tells us that we cannot leave the general welfare to central bank heads, economists and assorted ‘technocrats.’

    “Socialism must always remain a portent to the historians of Opinion — how a doctrine so illogical and so dull can have exercised so powerful and enduring an influence over the minds of men, and, through them, the events of history.” – John Maynard Keynes
    “. . . an obsolete textbook which I know not only to be scientifically erroneous but without interest or application to the modern world . . .” – John Maynard Keynes on Karl Marx’s “Das Kapital”
    “I can be influenced by what seems to me to be justice and good sense; but the class war will find me on the side of the educated bourgeoisie.” – John Maynard Keynes

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  • You first problem was reading ANYTHING posted at the National Catholic Reporter. It is a rag that neither represents good Catholicism or good journalism. It is unworthy of lining the bottom of bird cages.
    The priests who work there should better spend their time hearing confessions and yeah that’s about it…

Timothy Cardinal Dolan: Company Man

Sunday, March 9, AD 2014

Timothy Cardinal Dolan, of the Archdiocese of New York, is the epitome of the company man.  When the powers that be in his company, the Church, were orthodox and perceived to be conservative, that is what he was.  Now, well Rorate Caeli gives us a sample of what he is now:

 

“Who am I to judge?” makes a triumphant entry in the American subset of the College of Cardinals, in an interview granted to the highest-rated political debate program on US television, to be broadcast tomorrow:

 
Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York praised University of Missouri football star Michael Sam for coming out as gay, saying he would not judge the athlete for his sexual orientation. “Good for him,” Dolan said in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press” airing Sunday.
 
“I would have no sense of judgment on him,” Dolan continued. “God bless ya. I don’t think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, ‘Bravo.'” [Source]
 
OK, then. Naturally, the Cardinal did not have to say anything at all regarding a specific individual, even if asked. But silence and discretion are one thing, explicitly refusing moral discernment is another, and raising such refusal to the status of “good” and “bravo” is quite noteworthy for a Prince of the Church, because it is in itself a moral judgment, a positive moral judgment.
 
It is quite easy to see that no moral debate in which the Catholic Church takes part, of any kind and on any level, can ever anymore advance even one inch if the parameters become simply an isolated reading of “not judging” – and much less if “not judging” is elevated to the positive judgment of “good” and “bravo.” Politicians quote a pontiff when casting immoral votes, and what can the Church say, from now on, on any legal matter (that presupposes a moral order)? It can always be used to stop any social debate.
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43 Responses to Timothy Cardinal Dolan: Company Man

  • Coming out as a gay sportsperson is good PR for the person and for the team. It puts more bums on seats, and consequently more dollars in pockets.
    They (the gay community) shouldn’t kid themselves as its not a genuine stand for “equality” and breaking down prejudices blah blah blah. When you’re kicking, bouncing or throwing a ball, what does it matter who you cuddle up to at night (sorry to be graphic)? Why “come-out”? Does it suddenly change the persons skill-set?

    “Coming out” in sport is a current hype that will soon grow tired and old.

    I don’t know why the Cardinal even bothered to comment.

  • Donald McClarey- if you posted a series called “Dolan Watch” !
    There would be lots of grist for the mill.

  • “Careerism and cowardice have ever been mortal enemies of the Faith, and both appear to be flourishing under the current pontificate. ”
    A person’s true colors show in the heat and light of battle. That helps us. When satan exposes himself we can better protect ourselves and loved ones.

  • Just imagine the millions of teens who hear this “Bravo” “Good for him” on coming out per se ( not coming out plus chastity pledge) from Dolan; they will hear it just as a blurb on the news or on the commercial for “Meet the Press”….just in the northeast in general…millions. Dolan just raised the misguided empathy percent for decades to come and lowered the chastity bar for unmarried youth in general. Bill Donohue will want to defend him but will stay way out of this one…you’d need to be a whirling dervish to spin this one. Pray that Dolan sees through himself and pulls far back from whatever his weird motives are because Christ said of every idle word will we give an account but Wisdom raises those stakes for the prominent…

    Wisdom 6:6 “For the lowly may be pardoned out of mercy
    but the mighty shall be mightily put to the test….
    8 “but for those in power a rigorous scrutiny impends.”

  • Dolan, like Pope Bergoglio, talks too much.

  • I would not put it past the press agents at NBC to slice, dice, and fabricate the Cardinal’s remarks. It is flabbergasting to think that a prince of the Church would say something so inane.

  • Here is a link to the video clip of the Cardinal and his “bravo moment”:

    http://www.towleroad.com/2014/03/dolansam.html

  • Just saw the entire interview. Dolan was mainly serious and did say those things even after saying that a good teacher knows the power of the audio visual and implying that the Pope says controversial sound bites to get people discussing etc. In context, I think Dolan may have been surprised by the question about the athelete but he said those reported things ( good for him…bravo) without being in a laugh a second modality at all. I think a spin is possible within the surprise context if the question was a surprise which I don’t know…the best spin is this: Dolan may have meant that hiding your orientation from society as a public figure is unhealthy and sad and coming out is thus good. But teens didn’t watch him get surprised in context. They don’t watch Meet the Press. They see the commercial featuring him while watching something else or they see an internet or newspaper blurb which then comes across as a teaching moment by Dolan rather than an in context surprised and partial truth reaction to perhaps the sadness of being covert about your orientation.
    Oddly the Church has really distanced itself from Romans chapter one which sees gay actions as the result of previous non sexual sin…the depart from God into idolatry…which leads circuitously to gay active life. It may well be the pattern that happens within modern pre teens who neglect God and idolize gadgets, popular cliques at school, certain singers. Imagine if Romans one was relevant all along but in a modern way. Wouldn’t that be surprising?

  • I’m really surprised the bishops don’t have pat answers for these types of questions already. Here are some easy bullet points for the future:

    According to the catechism, homosexuals are not to be subjected to unjust discrimination so good for Michael Sam. Nevertheless, Michael Sam is required to be chaste. Why are you asking me about 1 homosexual in the NFL when we all know that locker rooms in general and the NFL in particular are places where men talk about the various acts of depravity they engaged in with their latest “groupie” conquest? As a bishop, shouldn’t I be more concerned that the vast majority of NFL athletes brag about their mortal sin?

  • The tone deafness of the hierarchy is something to behold. Simply tell the interviewer that you won’t discuss homosexual “marriage” unless it is in the context of the complete Catholic teaching on sexual morality. You mainstream media types want to ask me about Michael Sam? Really? So you want me to comment on a mortal sin that affects a small percentage of the population? Good, I’ll take the opportunity to tell you that millions more are more affected by the ubiquity of heterosexual sodomy that is literally a click away for almost all of the population with internet access. Sexual immorality leads to std’s as sure as gluttony leads to Type II diabetes. The Catholic Church is opposed to them ALL because they violate the natural law and are opposed to the plan God has for human beings made in His image and likeness.

  • Really though – who am I to judge the cardinal. He really is in a tough spot. The whole Church is. You ca’t boil the Church down to sound bites. I am glad I am not in his position.

  • “I am glad I am not in his position.”

    I would be glad if he were not in his position.

  • According to the catechism, homosexuals are not to be subjected to unjust discrimination so good for Michael Sam.

    Good for him for what? For being an exhibitionist?

  • What would St. Paul do were he in Cardinal Dolan’s place? Well he was, and this is what he said:

    “For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” 1st Corinthians 5:3-5

    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor penetrators of mankind nor receivers of penetration, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1st Corinthians 6:9-10

    The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops – and not a few cardinals either.

    http://www.stpeterslist.com/7334/the-path-to-hell-is-paved-with-the-skulls-of-bishops-8-quotes-and-sources/

  • Tom M. hits it on the head. Frankly, Tom M.’s “soundbite” sounds pretty much like St. Paul’s rant on the topic.
    The Pope opened the door for this opportunity to take the high ground back from the homos. Go Pope!

  • “Good for him for what?”

    Not for being an exhibitionist per se, but for being a good football player who, by all appearances, is as qualified to play in the NFL as anyone else (including those who engage in other seriously sinful activities and lifestyles). As far as Cardinal Dolan being asked about him, my suggested answer would be: “Michael Sam is not, to my knowledge, Catholic and has not requested my advice or pastoral counsel regarding his personal situation so I am not going to give it here. That said…. here is what the Church teaches in general regarding homosexuality.”

    In an ideal world, Sam’s announcement would NOT be news for either or both of two reasons: 1. The reaction of the sports world would be “Yeah, so what? All we care about is how well you can play football.” 2. Athletes would not be regarded as role models or idols but as ordinary human beings doing a job, whose opinions regarding homosexuality or any other issue carried no more or less weight than anyone else’s.

  • Anzlyne: “Really though – who am I to judge the cardinal. He really is in a tough spot. The whole Church is. You ca’t boil the Church down to sound bites. I am glad I am not in his position.”
    .
    The whole Church are the Saints in heaven, the militant church on earth and the suffering souls in purgatory. Heaven is full of souls who kept to the law.

  • The Pope and the Cardinal seemed to have learned nothing
    from the recent scandal involving the downtrodden homosexual.

  • “Michael Sam is not, to my knowledge, Catholic and has not requested my advice or pastoral counsel regarding his personal situation so I am not going to give it here. That said…. here is what the Church teaches in general regarding homosexuality.” Yes. Well stated. That would have been a more prudent answer.

    The Interviewer set the bait, and the Cardinal bit. Hopefully, he will know for next time.

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  • Whether caught by surprise or not, one would think a ‘prince of the Church’ would have solid stances on the things the Church teaches and not be like a politician. C. Dolan is an embarrassment. The hedging on moral issues by far too many in the Church hierarchy sets a dangerous precedence: it leaves many comfortable in sin, if confuses many, and leaves those who know their faith and have the courage and strength to stand up for it in a place where no one has their back. None of this is new. I think of Arianism and almost all bishops caved. I think of Lutheranism and protestanism and in some countries almost all the bishops caved. I think of Nazi Germany and many bishops caved. I think of a Bl. like Franz Jaggerstatter whose bishop and priest said he could join the Nazi army because he had a family to think of. He held fast despite bad advice and was killed and now is beatified.

    We may be coming to a time when we individual Catholics will have to take the punishment ourselves for standing for the truth as our cowardly prelates go with the worldly flow. That makes for the time of saints. C. Dolan has said he wants to be a saint but it will not happen at this pace; he needs to repent and find a spine.

  • Unfortunately, Cardinal Dolan has been the company man for a long time. He was happy that “universal health insurance” became law of the land before the HHS mandate “surprised” him. And he did (is doing) nothing except spin, spin, spin when it “came out” that the NY archdiocesan health insurance covers abortions & contraceptives. He loves Obama, didn’t he go to that swanky black tie presidential dinner to rub elbows with him? I listen to the Catholic Channel, but cannot listen to Cardinal Dolan’s voice. I pray for him to repent & convert, but I’m afraid he’s one of those whom Pope Francis was talking about when he said he doesn’t want any careerist priests. Interestingly, when you’re a careerist, the pride blinds you & you don’t even know that you are one.

  • Was the guy any good? I don’t follow professional, large-dude B-ball.

    Dipsarate impact!

    Young Tim isn’t up on 21st century civil rights crises, either.

    The NBA discrimates (effects test) against normal-sized whites. Tall blacks comprise 70%+ of the players, but way less than 16% of the US population. If we applied the official, Obama regime civil rights tactics, there would be sanctions on the NBA until 66% of the players were not-huge, white heterosexuals.

  • I am SO disappointed about this. God gave my wife and I children. We, as their parents, had the responsibility to teach them right & wrong, guide them in their relationship skills with others and set example. This also included saying NO! “That is not allowed.”
    The kids did NOT LIKE it when we had to do that. Too bad—It was the right thing for us to do. Cardinal Dolan has been placed by God (right?) in a lofty parental position albeit spiritual. Along with that comes the duty to say NO! Like it or not—End of story

  • Not surprising, when you think about it.

    This is the same Cardinal who said of contraception “Whoa, let’s stay away from talking abut that Teaching…” 40 years of abortion, and he can’t speak about contraception as an anti-life act and mutual masturbation. NFP as good, pure and natural. Abortion as backup birth control to contraceptive failure. Where “birth control” is really the demand to have sex and no babies, the lead to acceptance of homosexual behavior.

    Can we really expect him to speak in clear terms about what the Church Teaches on Homosexual behavior with the cameras rolling?

  • In an ideal world, Sam’s announcement would NOT be news for either or both of two reasons: 1. The reaction of the sports world would be “Yeah, so what? All we care about is how well you can play football.” 2. Athletes would not be regarded as role models or idols but as ordinary human beings doing a job, whose opinions regarding homosexuality or any other issue carried no more or less weight than anyone else’s.

    No, Elaine. In a better world, Sam’s announcement would not be news because the people who heard it would be too embarrassed to report it.

  • I have long cherished a couplet of Mgr Ronald Knox’s in a satiric poem, written in 1913, on his brother clergymen at Oxford, written in the manner of Dryden

    “When suave Politeness, temp’ring bigot Zeal,
    Corrected, “I believe,” to” One does feel.”

  • This example is precisely the argument all of my teenage and college age grandchildren and yes some of my adult children, who are extremely active in the Catholic church use to “put me” in my “old fashioned” world view of the “teachings of the church” places. Who am I to compete with the likes of Timothy Cardinal Dolan. Rationalization comes very easy when you have quotes in print. “I know a lot of gay people grandma and they are better than a lot of Catholic’s I know.” Unless I want to completely destroy every gathering we have until I die, I must hold my tongue. After all I am not very educated. 🙁

  • Just like the guy in the Whitehouse, I will not listen any longer.

  • Advice from 630+ years ago: Excerpt, Letter to Gregory XI by St Catherine of Siena, ca. 1375, bemoaning the Pope’s selections of certain cardinals: “…I have heard that you created the Cardinals. Believe me, it would have been more to God’s honor and in your better interests to always choose men of virtue. Not to do this is to insult God and to ruin the Church; And we cant be surprised if God sends us punishments and scourges, for it is only just.”

  • Steve Phoenix

    One does not have to go back that far. At the time of the Revolution in 1789, the five French Cardinals, Rohan, Loménie de Brienne, Bernis, Montmorency and Talleyrand (the uncle of the statesman) were all, as the Catholic historian, Lord Acton, puts it, “men notoriously of evil repute.”

    Why that should be so is explained by Hilaire Belloc: “he very fact that the Church had thus become in France an unshakable national institution, chilled the vital source of Catholicism. Not only did the hierarchy stand in a perpetual suspicion of the Roman See, and toy with the conception of national independence, but they, and all the official organisation of French Catholicism, put the security of the national establishment and its intimate attachment to the general political structure of the State, far beyond the sanctity of Catholic dogma or the practice of Catholic morals.”

    Sound familiar?

  • “”I know a lot of gay people grandma and they are better than a lot of Catholic’s I know.””
    .
    Then you ought to help them get to heaven by reminding them of their immortal souls. Explain that being “homosexually oriented” is not a sin but an act of God. Only sodomy is a sin

  • I think these two quotes from St. Augustine seem appropos for Cdl. Dolan and millions of poorly catechized, catholics.

    “What is reprehensible is that, while leading good lives themselves and abhorring those of wicked men, some fearing to offend shut their eyes to evil deeds instead of condemning them and pointing out their malice. To be sure, the motive behind their tolerance is that they may suffer no hurt in the possession of those temporal goods which virtuous and blameless men may lawfully enjoy; still, there is more self-seeking here than becomes men who are mere sojourners in this world and who profess hope of a home in heaven.”

    “The only evils these people recognize are having to endure hunger, disease, and murder. It is as though man’s greatest good were to have everything good, except himself.”

  • And when a guy comes out and says he likes to be with animals, BRAVO!

  • “And not only do they do these things, but applaud others doing them”. I don’t think the last words of Romans One apply to the Cardinal but they do to certain others. Perhaps the Cardinal did not think quickly enough on his feet to consider how Sam’s announcement of how comfortable he is with being proudly gay makes most of us uncomfortable. Why can’t Sam just play ball and shut up? Why does not the love that dared not speak its name in better times just shut up? Is it a battle cry in the Culture War?

  • I always rather liked the remark of the Anglican Benedictine and liturgical scholar, Dom Gregory Dix: “I really don’t see why you should be surprised at the conduct of your Fathers in God. After all the insignia of a Bishop is a crook and of an Archbishop a double-cross.”

  • Back in January I was stunned when the Church of England made it “optional” for the parents and Godparents to use the words “Reject Satan” in Baptismal ceremonies. Their reason–“so as not to offend anyone”. Dear Cardinal Dolan, who I truly respect and admire, has gone down that “slippery slope” in being PC. Avoiding perceived Intolerance at all costs to feign tolerance is a no win method of defending the faith. I’m hoping he does clarify what he meant.

  • “And when a guy comes out and says he likes to be with animals, BRAVO!”

    Well, so far the only guy in the NFL who has ever admitted that he “likes to be with animals” (in a completely different sense, of course) has gotten nothing but grief for it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick

  • Three warnings have already been prophesied for the City of the Seven Hills
    http://www.prophetamos3m.com/6.html

  • Hasn’t anyone here ever said the wrong thing, or “put their foot in it”, or been caught by surprise, or regretted a particular conversation or even maybe thought they should have said things better? Ever?

    I have.

    It’s Lent. Give him the benefit of the doubt, as I suspect he is cringing at the thought of the interview. Don’t attack him. “Princes of the Church” are not perfect, because they are not God. As you would know, even St Peter said some doozies a number of times.

  • Did Card. Dolan suddenly “come out” in favor of homosexual “marriage”? Did he challenge the Church’s position that homosexual acts or intrinsically disordered? No, he was just making a statement about one person realizing who they truly are.

    Come on folks.

  • i suggest that in the future catholic leaders put on the spot like this simply explain two things, first, the sexual orientation of a specific person seeking to be chaste is not a subject i feel free to discuss.

    and second , the key point in discussing human sexuality is what the Church teaches, that unless sexual acts occur within a permanent and exclusive relationship between one man and one woman, they are sinful and disordered.

  • No, he was just making a statement about one person realizing who they truly are.

    One person making a public point of his sexual perversions.

HHS Mandate Fight Not Going Away

Monday, November 19, AD 2012

One of the many dreadful results of the American people deciding to give the Southside Messiah another four years to see how much of the country he can gut, is that the struggle over the HHS mandate will not be resolved by Congress simply reversing the initiative of the Obama administration.

Lawsuits against the HHS Mandate have been meeting with some success, go here to read about injunctive relief being given to a private employer, and doubtless all of this will eventually end up before the Supreme Court.  It has been heartening to see how many non-Catholics have been standing with Catholics in this area.  For example, Tyndale House Publishers have gone to court and gotten injunctive relief.  Go here to read about it.

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8 Responses to HHS Mandate Fight Not Going Away

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  • I’m not sure we shouldn’t hold a Catholic strike over this. Declare a religious liberty day, in which all Catholic organizations that serve the public will close for 24 hours.

    Let the feds try to deal with having soup kitchens, homeless shelters, orphanages, schools, hospitals, colleges, and even parishes closed for 24 hours. Lock the doors. Let them deal with the emergencies for a change.

    Remind America what Catholics have done for them.

  • Ted, I cetrainly sympathize with what you are saying. But this would be exactly what Obama and the left wants. This is clearly what they are gunning for.

    I think what this whole HHS Mandate problem has once again made clear is that the bishops should restrict themselves and their diocesan and USCCB resources to are matters within their competence accompanied by a serious soul-searching asking themselves if and to what extent their actions have helped bring this about. Failing which, the moral credibility they need to be an effective player will elude them. It seems to me that thus far, they have failed to understand this.

  • A PAGAN NATION?

    Has it finally come to an ignominious end?
    Must liberty and religious freedom we now rescind?
    Our Founding Fathers must now be assuredly aghast,
    If they knew their City on a Hill is now in the past.

    America was a definitive faith exercise.
    The United States is now decidedly otherwise.
    Compromise between good and evil can never prevail.
    Without the God our nation trusted, life is no avail.

    The Declaration of Independence we could once trust.
    Life, liberty, and happiness have been overcome with lust.
    Seeds of democracy’s destruction have now germinated.
    Every phase of government has been permeated.

    The American dream is now only a socialist scheme.
    It has then become a nightmare we can only blaspheme.
    American traitors committed a scandalous sin.
    They should never be allowed to enjoy freedom again.

    We must resurrect revolution to save us once more.
    Tyranny is something we have always known to deplore.
    God help return religious freedom to our native shore.
    So we can ask You to bless America evermore.

    Bob Rowland
    X1/XII/MMXII

  • Ted: “Let the feds try to deal with having soup kitchens, homeless shelters, orphanages, schools, hospitals, colleges, and even parishes closed for 24 hours. Lock the doors. Let them deal with the emergencies for a change.”
    Every one of these works are spiritual and corporal works of mercy, the virtue of charity, the domain of the Catholic Church and the holy soul. If cruel and unusual punishment, prohibited by the Eighth Amendment, curtails our spiritual and corporal works of mercy, and the virtue of charity, the state has interferred in the religion of the Church. “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

  • http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/hobby-lobby-loses-to-hhs-mandate-in-federal-court Pretty bad this Hobby Lobby has lost. I’ve never seen there stores. It sounded like someone said they were connected or got advice from some high profile Protestant, they are a Protestant organization, more power to them. Of course, the contraceptive end wasn’t of concern or much concern to them.

  • In his suit, Hobby Lobby owner David Green had likewise requested an injunction against the mandate. However, U.S. District Judge Joe Heaton ruled that the “Plaintiffs have not cited, and the court has not found, any case concluding that secular, for-profit corporations such as Hobby Lobby and Mardel have a constitutional right to the free exercise of religion.” from lifesitenews.com. A corporation is an artificial person constructed for legal purposes, registered with the state. The judge is telling the artificial legal person that it has no right to believe in God, or have a response to God which is called religion, imposing an atheocracy. “Who is dictating the construction and behavior of the corporation?” is the legal qestion to be answered, the owner and inventor, the persona of the corporation, or the state? The persona, the soul, of the artificial person is the persona and soul of let us say, “the father”. The Catholic Church is registereed with the state as a non-profit oranization as well. Registering with the state for legal purposes does not surrender the corporation or the church to the state. The rest is usurpation.

  • Declare a religious liberty day, in which all Catholic organizations that serve the public will close for 24 hours.

    Let the feds try to deal with having soup kitchens, homeless shelters, orphanages, schools, hospitals, colleges,…

    This is the great myth that there are all of these institutions controlled by the bishops.

    There is not a single Catholic orphange in the United States, at the present time. I’m fairly sure every soup kitchen would get an exemption for having <50 full time employees.

    As for Catholic hospitals and colleges, these all have independent boards of directors. They and not the bishop will make whatever decisions to be made. the most the bishop can do is to remove their name from the Catholic Directory.

Barbed Laughs

Thursday, October 18, AD 2012

Barack Obama and Mitt Romney appeared tonight at the Al Smith Dinner and gave the usual humorous speeches.  A few observations:

1.  Romney the Standup Comic-I was surprised at how well Romney did.  Comedy and Mitt Romney would seem to be mutually exclusive concepts, but he had good timing and delivered an effective series of jokes.  Funniest joke:  A reference to the Cardinal, because of Obama’s troubles with the Church, turning Obama’s wine into water.

2.  Flat Obama-Four years ago I praised Obama’s speech at the Al Smith dinner as being hilarious.  Not this year.  Most of his jokes fell flat and he seemed to be going through the motions.  Funniest joke:  He said at one point that for the third debate he was going to train as he did for the first debate.  Pause.  He then said that he was just kidding, that he only wanted to make Axelrod sweat.

3.  These Guys Really Hate Each Other-Both Romney and Obama at the end of their speeches gave unfelt praise to the other.  Their other comments dripped venom for their opponent, especially Romney’s comments.  No love lost here at all.

4.  Romney on the Attack-The usual humor at an Al Smith dinner is self-depracatory.  Romney had a bit of this but most of his humorous comments were fairly hard hitting attacks against Obama.

5.  The War on the Church-Romney was not shy in mentioning Obama’s attacks on the Church.  He joked that Obama has found a way to soften the attitude of the Church to the HHS Mandate:  the rules will be in Latin.

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59 Responses to Barbed Laughs

  • my pick for funniest joke was about O looking around at the dinner guests and thinking — “so little time so much to redistribute”

    my husband liked :”better off than you were 4 weeks ago”
    no I think my favorite was advice to B16 if he has troubles to blame it on JP2

  • Governor Romney had me laughing out loud through most of his speech. He was REALLY good. Someone wrote him an excellent speech and he delivered it just perfectly. I wonder how Obama felt sitting through all that. I confess that I didn’t watch Obama’s. I really can’t stomach watching/hearing him at all. I’m sure I didn’t miss anything.

  • Thanks for the update. I feel good about what I read so far.

  • The President’s remarks are brought to you by the letter O and the number 16,000,000,000,000.

    Priceless. 🙂

  • I feel even better, now, having listen to both of their speeches.

  • Great post Don, I particularly liked the Romney line about St. Peter facing an early doubter who kept saying, “You didn’t build that Church.”

    You know in each campaign there are moments that same to have no relevancy to the campaign, but later end up being some sort of indicator. In 2008 in an awkward moment John McCain was labeled as being old because he was fumbling around with his cell phone (which we many of us who are over 40 probably do on a regular basis.) Tonight it seemed President Obama didn’t want to be there (now in his defense I am sure a lot of candidates would rather be out on the trail 19 days before the election. ) However, as Don pointed out it seemed then Senator Obama really enjoyed himself in 2008.

  • ” … Rules of fairness have to be enforced, and what other safeguard do we have besides the press … My job is to lay out a positive vision for the country, and their job is to make sure no one finds out about it. ”

    ” Let’s just say that some in the media have a certain way of looking at things.
    … I’ve already seen early headlines about tonight … Obama embraced by Catholics, Romney dies with rich people. “

  • From day one Obama always sounded angry to me. He sounded angry here too. I’m confounded how more people cannot recognize this.

  • Watched the speaches on Hannity. I think Romney was better than Barry O’Bummer, even though his jokes were more pointed politically ( may have generated a little sympathy for Barry)
    I score it Romney 7 – “Hussein” 3 🙂

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  • “3.  These Guys Really Hate Each Other-Both Romney and Obama at the end of their speeches gave unfelt praise to the other.  Their other comments dripped venom for their opponent, especially Romney’s comments.  No love lost here at all.”

    Maybe that’s good. Romney (unlike McCain in 2008) really wants to win. He is motivated as McCain never was. Obama, needs to face an opponent who won’t back down in front of him. He needs to sweat as does every liberal progressive Democrat.

  • So maybe Cdl. Dolan’s decision to go ahead and invite both candidates to the dinner wasn’t such a bad one after all? Just a couple of months ago there was all kinds of hand wringing and despair on the St. Blogs about how Obama was going to use this event as “proof” that he was “Catholic friendly” and win back the Catholic vote. Sounds to me like Romney was the one who benefited.

  • I never joined in the handwringing Elaine because I thought that shrewd fox Cardinal Dolan expected something like this to occur.

  • It might have been hard for O to be required to party with rich people, Catholics, and a rep of the Hierarchy– He did look angry. he obviously did not think his “joke ” about his middle name was funny. It is ok with me if he uses his middle name. I thought that him even saying that was a bid for sympathy pointing out the anti-multi-cultural bullies.

    he might have liked it better if Cardinal Dolan had not invited him– then he could appear morally superior to the church

  • I just watched both links above. I though BO was funny. I didn’t see too much anger in his humor… I thought Romney should have kept in the spirit of the 4th point listed above and not been on the attack in this forum. But it wasn’t over the top either. I just would ave felt better if the focus was more off BO for a bit.

  • Romney was definitely more barbed. As for Crdinal Dolan’s invite, I still think he gave Obama the impression that he has nothing to fear from the bishops…and he doesn’t!

  • And until Cardinal Dolan apologizes to the state of Arizona and begs forgiveness for the his libelous attack on SB 1070, he will still be a disgrace and and embarassment.I also believe he owes the same to Catholics in America that he would sully the Church by using his position in such a disgraceful manner.

  • PM

    isn’t that suppose to be “dines with rich people?”

  • Stilbelieve, yes. The missing ‘n’ is another reason I should avoid the below ‘post comment’ button.

  • I watched both speeches. Romney was terrific. On a side note, I don’t see how you can make a statement like this “these guys really hate each other”. Hate is a very strong word and I don’t think it’s something we as Christians should toss around lightly.

  • there has been plenty of Romney deprecating humor in the air–

  • “and I don’t think it’s something we as Christians should toss around lightly.”

    I call ’em like I see “em Mary.

  • Rallies against the HHS mandate will take place in more than 140 cities around the country tomorrow, Saturday, October 20.

    http://standupforreligiousfreedom.com/locations/

    Let’s all make our voices heard!

  • That Mitt Romney was able to bring up the subject of Fairness, with no interruption, reminds me of David and Goliath story.

    “Obamateurism of the Day
    posted at 8:01 am on October 19, 2012 by Ed Morrissey

    There is almost nothing worse in politics than the zinger that ends up as backfire. Barack Obama thought he’d scored a big point on Mitt Romney Tuesday night by attacking his wealth, and specifically his investments and pensions:

    Ha ha! That’s great — Obama got to tell Romney that his pension isn’t as big as Romney’s, reminding everyone that Romney’s rich. Unfortunately for Obama, not only did Romney turn out to be right about Obama’s investments in China and the Caymans, for which Obama has hammered Romney for months, Obama has far more lucrative pensions than Romney does (via Carol Platt Liebau):

    As president, he will receive $191,300 annually for life — win or lose in next month’s election — and receives a travel allotment as well as mailing privileges. Should Obama lose, his presidential pension kicks in immediately after leaving office.

    Given that the president enjoys a normal life span, the pension allotment would be worth upwards of $6 million.

    The federal budget spends about $3 million annually for the four living ex-presidents. Obama also will get Secret Service protection.

    In addition, Obama may be due a nice pension for the eight years he served in the Illinois Legislature as a state senator.

    Illinois is infamous for its lavish pension plan for former lawmakers. A Freedom of Information Act request for Obama’s pension amount submitted Wednesday to the General Assembly Retirement System of Illinois was not immediately answered, nor was a call to the Obama campaign.

    But what about Romney? He must be getting some fat-cat pensions based on golden parachutes made out of the skin of workers sacrificed to the gods of Bain and Capitalism, right? Nope. In fact, Romney has no pensions at all, and only has the money he’s saved on his own (worth a considerable amount, of course):

    His Individual Retirement Account could be worth in the neighborhood of $87 million, as documented in an extensive report from the Washington Post.

    But as for a strictly public pension? Zip, zero.

    Romney only served one term as governor of the Bay State and did not take a salary, so he is eligible for nothing.

    So while Romney appears headed for a happier retirement financially, he’ll be footing his own bill — unless, of course, he wins next month. In that case, his nest egg will be even that much bigger than Obama’s.

    You think that a man who runs the most powerful nation on Earth might know something about his own portfolio before trying out that attack. Then again, Obama has rung up four straight trillion-dollar deficits, so clearly fiscal management isn’t one of his strong suits.”

  • I agree with Greg Mockeridge. I thought that Cardinal Dolan should never have given public recognition at a Catholic event to an abortionist and advocate of sodomy. The Cardinal, like most Roman clerics, is too enamored with the false gospel of social justice and the common good. But having Obama at a public forum hear with his own ears the disdain he has inspired in his opponent is something he needs. I am happy that his liberal, sanctimoniously open-minded, tolerate and diversity-supporting nose has been rubbed in that disdain. All liberals need to understand exactly how close-minded, intolerant and divisive they really are. Romney was barbed? Good! I hope some of those barbs went beneath the skin of Barack Hussein Obama and causes him to realize what a wreck he has made of this country both economically and morally, and how he just may fall in defeat on November 6th after all.

  • “Let’s all make our voices heard!”

    Indeed!

  • Sorry, it was still a very bad idea despite Romney “winning” it. When all the analysis is over and done with most people will see Obama, Romney and Cardinal Dolan laughing it up together.

    Michael Voris says it best:

    http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2012-10-17

  • Nope, it was a very good idea. Too many Catholics are clear about the innocence of doves in Christ’s admonition and forget about the wiliness of serpents. I would hate to play chess against Cardinal Dolan.

  • Donald,

    Maybe you are correct. After all, Cardinal Dolan is a consecrated successor to the Apostles, having received the seal of Holy Orders (is that the right term?). As such, maybe it is the Holy Spirit who has inspired him to invite both candidates to the Al Smith dinner. I never thought inviting Obama to any Catholic function was right, but I am not in Apostolic succession as Cardinal Dolan is. Maybe I should trust that the Holy Spirit knows what He is doing.

  • Dolan probably depended mainly upon his native shrewdness Paul, but perhaps the Holy Spirit gave a nudge or two. I think the night turned out badly for Obama and I think Dolan expected it to. He had met both Romney and Obama on several prior occasions and I think he had the measure of each man.

  • Cardinal Dolan, in my very humble opinion, has out classed, out smarted and allowed humility to trump the arrogance of Chicago city organizer. Much of the public is aware of the violation of 1st Amendment rights to freedom of religion in relationship to the HHS mandate, despite the MSM blackouts.
    My hope is that tomorrow’s national rally for freedom of conscience will in some miraculous way help the undecided to vote for protecting our right to support the unborn.
    Cardinal Dolan took the high road, not the easier predictable road of “eye for an eye.”

    I pray it works.

  • “Illinois is infamous for its lavish pension plan for former lawmakers.”

    After the last election, one newly elected Republican lawmaker chose not to enroll in the General Assembly Retirement System — the first legislator that anyone can remember declining the pension. He only got one chance to enroll so his decision will stick. Now there are a growing number of Republican and even a few Democratic candidates for legislative seats promising voters that they won’t take the GARS pension, and it seems to be a popular move with voters. Giving up the GARS pension (which kicks in after only 8 years of service) is probably the easiest, most popular and most relatively painless form of Illinois pension reform out there right now since most legislators have other employment to fall back on. I would not be surprised to see the GARS system closed to further enrollment within the next few years.

  • Thank you for the video Jasper

    I think immediately of John the Baptist and King Herod

  • So Michael Voris would have us to believe that the Master would so no mercy. Better to bring on the persecution huh.
    I can’t buy it.
    The money changers and Dolan hobnobbing together for WHAT gain Darth Vortex?
    I see it now. So he is popular with the Catholic Dems. What next Mike? Having us to believe that Dolan is on the take. I see it now….the jet, the private estate, the scandal of it all.

    Thank God that He, God is our Judge, and not man.

    Please give Dolan the benefit of the doubt, and pray more…slander less.

  • I believe we are at minute 16 and counting with Mr. Voris.

  • “I believe we are at minute 16 and counting with Mr. Voris.”

    Yep.

  • To Paul Z and Donald M,

    What does the reference to minute 16 mean? Sorry. I really don’t know.

    To Jasper and Chris P.,

    I did not agree with Cardinal Dolan’s invitation for Obama to attend the Al Smith dinner. I thought it was like John the Baptist acquiescing to King Herod. But Cardinal Dolan is a successor of the Apostles, having been consecrated as a Bishop in Holy Orders. I do not therefore believe that Obama’s embarrassment and discomfort at the Al Smith dinner occurred without influence of the Holy Spirit on Cardinal Dolan’s decision to invite him (though Donald says that that is more likely attributed to Cardinal Dolan’s own craftiness). Indeed, while I am a big fan of Michael Voris, I think here in this video he comes dangerously close to laying his hands on the Lord’s servant, and even David would not do that to his enemy, King Saul. Of course, that means I have been guilty of the same,

    The other issue Michael Voris raised of all those rich people who fund the Al Smith dinner and are also contributors to pro-abortion, pro-homosexual politicians should be dealt with. but surely there are ways of communicating this to Cardinal Dolan without the kind of criticism we see here in Voris’s video. Again, my own similar sins come to mind.

    All this being said, the best thing that came out of the Al Smith dinner is Obama having to sit in the hot seat and publicly display facial signs of discomfort or anger. His real side is showing more and more this election season and the voters are seeing that. So while I had thought that Cardinal Dolan erred in the invitation, maybe I am the one who is in error. God’s will will be done. I hope that does not involve persecution of the Church as Voris advocated in his video, but Romans chapter 11 comes to mind. Would Voris himself remain true to his bravado in the actual face of such persecution, or would it be Cardinal Dolan who remains true?

  • Paul, it’s a reference to “15 minutes of fame.” I believe it was Warhol who suggested that all people are famous for 15 minutes. The implication is that Mr. Voris has reached the zenith of his popularity.

  • Thank you, Paul Z.

    Cardinal Dolan, in having valid Apostolic succession, does not need the 15 minutes of fame as those without such succession apparently crave when they speak with the authority reserved for someone in such valid succession.

    My sins of self-righteous criticism come to mind.

  • A problem other people named Paul struggle with sometime as well. 😉

  • Paul P,
    I agree with much of your post, especially this:

    I am a big fan of Michael Voris, I think here in this video he comes dangerously close to laying his hands on the Lord’s servant

    All I can say is this, I spent 45 minutes in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, then brought my young daughter with me for 5-10 minutes (about as much as she will behave) to spend with our Lord. As I reflect on this my time spent in Adoration, as her father I cannot imagine doing anything that would give the possibility of scandal to her.

    This whole affair just doesn’t sit right with me.

    Also, regarding John the Baptist and King Herrod, I was implying he did not acquiesce; He did not dialogue, he condemed Herrod.

  • I too have enjoyed the vortex, and I have been hard on Mike in this post. I lived near Milwaukee when Bishop Dolan, appointed by JP II, flew in to a post Wakeland Catholicism.
    I met Dolan at Holy Hill at an ordination mass on July 16th for a Carmelite deacon. To many, Bishop Dolan was and is the warm Spring breeze during a very long and cold winter.
    I’m biased, yes.
    I feel that Mike was unfair with his assault on our Cardinal.
    Please accept my apology for my harsh rebuttal to Mikes video.

  • While I have my share of problems with Voris, his video on this is pretty measured compared to other things he has said on other subjects. I don’t think it was a good idea that Dolan invited Obama. I think Mr. McClarey’s wishful thinking about the leadership of our bishops vis-a-vis the HHS mandate is in overdrive. I don’t see the shwredness in this decision at all. Obama didn’t come away from this looking any worse. In fact, he may have looked a little better. After the two debates he cames away looking like the thinskinned Messiah complexed ideologue that he is. His presentation at the dinner made him look like someone who could at least have a sense of self-deprecating humor. Whereas it was Romney looked like more of the attack dog at the dinner. Of course, I don’t have a problem with that. But Obama looked no worse for the wear.

    But I think reasonable people can disagree as to whether or not it was a good idea. Even though I have a very low opinion of Cardinal Dolan for the very serious reasons I state in a previous post on this thread, I think some of the King Herod comparisons regarding the invite were over the top. I just think he just reaffirmed in Obama’s mind that he has nothing to fear from the Catholic bishops in this country. Voris does raise a valid point about how he is going to deal with the self-professed legally married to her lesbian lover who is likely to be the next mayor (at least according to Voris I haven’t followed NYC politics close enough to know of her electoral chances). I’m not quite I embrace Voris’ view on that, but, like I said, it’s a valid point.

  • Greg.
    ..nothing to fear from the Catholic bishops…

    Let Obama think that. I hope he does. It should be the sheep that Obama fears.
    We will see if the Sheppards united effort this past year will be fruitful. I read that 52% eligible Catholics voted for Obama in 08.

    With the help of our Bishops this could be 20% or less come the 6th. Okay….I can dream.

  • Letting a bully think the object of bullying is weak will only increase the bullying. Tell me how do you figure any shift in the Catholic vote will be due to the efforts of the USCCB?

    I would suspect that if a Republican president had tried something like this HHS madate, the invective from the bishops would be signiifcantly more fierce than it has been toward Obama. The same USCCB joined forces with the Obama Admistration against AZ’s SB 1070, a just law that is clearly consistent with Catholic morality, in thier Amicus brief to the Supreme Court. They had the nerve to (get this) say it was aviolation of religious liberty. Did the USCCB file an Amicus against Obamacare when it went up to the Supreme Court, even though it had funding for abortion? Nooooo!!!

    As I point out in an above post, Cardinal himself launched what I believe is clearly a libelous attack against SB 1070 http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?d=36322.

    Look up the text of SB 1070 and explain to me how an honest reading of the law warrants anything that remotely justifies Cardinal Dolan’s equating it the the KKK.

    Cardinal Dolan never dared levelling anything near that kind of invective at Obama.
    What kind of moral cerdibility does a Prince of the Church have when he engages in such behavior? Quite frankly, how anyone who calls himself an orthodox Catholic can read what Cardinal Dolan said about SB 1070 and not be outrage is itself an outrage.

  • ” I don’t see the shwredness in this decision at all. Obama didn’t come away from this looking any worse. In fact, he may have looked a little better.”

    That is a funnier comment than anything Obama said at the Al Smith Dinner Greg. I defy anyone to compare and contrast Obama and Romney at the Dinner and think that Obama came off looking the better for it. You have an axe to grind against Dolan because he does not share your support for the Arizona law and it colors your perception of what I think was a clear defeat for the South Side Messiah.

    http://www.seraphicpress.com/romney-roasts-obama-at-al-smith-dinner/

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/10/19/al_smith_dinner_humanizes_romney

    http://therionorteline.com/2012/10/19/skewered-one-sympathizes/

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/10/report-democrats-flock-to-meet-romney-at-alfred-e-smith-dinner-in-nyc-video/

    http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=37771

  • Donald I have “an axe to grind” against Dolan BECUASE HE SLANDERED THAT LAW, NOT MERELY BECAUSE HE OPPOSED IT!!!!!AND YOU KNOW IT!!!!!! I have provided clear divdence of it. It is a serious scandal!!! THis is something all poeple of goodwill, especially Catholics, ought to be outraged about, whether they agree with the law or not. Llike I said, the fact that anyone who calls himself an orthodox Cathoilic and not be outraged by Dolan’s conduct is itslef an outrage. Donald, tell me how an honest reading of the Arizona Law (you can find it online, it’s only 15 or 16 pages) justifies Dolan’s equating it with the what KKK did in the South.

  • Chill out Greg. Typing in caps makes your tirade against Dolan no more convincing to me. I think Dolan is wrong on the Arizona law and dead right on inviting Obama to the Al Smith Dinner.

  • Okay, chilled. But Dolan was not just wrong, but scandalously so. You do not find it to be a serious problem when the most influential bishop, with a huge reputation for orthodoxy, engages in the same kind of calumnious race baiting Obama and the rest of the left does?

    As far as the Al Smith Dinner goes, I think it was a bad idea on Dolan’s part yes. But I also pointed out that reasonable can disagree. I thought Romney looked a little oetty in his obvious attack mode, although I liked the digs and Obama looked less like the thinnedskinned ideologue he really is. I even said I thought, despite my utter contempt for Cdl. Dolan, I thought the Herod comparisons were over the top.

    Donald, for bishops moral credibility is everything, particularly now. You may not want to come to terms with this, but the bishops don’t have any, all the fawning notwithstanding. They are a big reason why Obama thought he could get away with the this HHS Mandate. And they have supported policies that enabled this. And until they acknowledge their responsibility in helping cause this, all their posturing will amount to nothing bu a dog and pony show.

    Chill enough for you?

  • P.S. Donald I used caps in the previous post, to make my indignation over your mischaracterization of my problem with Dolan as being merely his not sharing my view on the AZ when you know that was not the case. A retraction on your part is in order I think.

  • I personally think Greg that bishops should rarely speak out on any political issue, with the exceptions being where there is a clear violation of Catholic teaching of the magnitude of abortion. In regard to immigration my preference would be for the bishops not to take any side at all on the issue, since it doesn’t rise to the level of abortion, and reasonable people can disagree, as opposed to abortion. I have actually been quite heartened by the reaction of the bishops to the HHS Mandate led by Cardinal Dolan. Dolan’s benediction at the Democrat convention was of a piece with inviting Obama to the AL Smith Dinner. I believe he is playing a very clever game in regard to Obama, and I think it will show when one of the factors leading to Obama being defeated is his losing the Catholic vote decisively in the swing states.

  • “A retraction on your part is in order I think.”

    NO! 🙂

  • Greg-
    Letting a bully…

    Read the accounts of St. Maximilian Kolbe, and the conversions that followed. St. Steven. Gondi. Countless heroic acts of Faith in the face of bullies have brought about deep and lasting change. It has a soul piercing effect that moves mountains and this is why I believe it works, even in this case with the naked emperor.

    As I mentioned before, my HOPE and prayer is that a miracle takes place. Today the third stand up rally takes to our public streets. The third this year. More priests are openly speaking from the ambo to Catholics everywhere of the fight that the administration brought to us. We did not pick the fight, however we will not walk away from it. This message from our Bishops has permeated to local churches, and my prayer and hope is for a miraculous catch. Say 32% swing.
    Let down your nets for a catch.

    I’m trusting, hoping, praying and physically on the street to bring attention that this current emperor is naked. That we Shall Never submit to Laws that trample our consciences regarding the protection of the unborn
    If Christ is with us who can be against us? The bully is toast.

  • Well, Donald, that you have no problem with mischaracterizing the positions of another, and allowing it to stand,s speaks a very unflattering truth about you. But that’s my problem it’s yours.

  • I think I will put you on moderation Greg until you grow a sense of humor and perspective.

  • I also disagree with Dolan on the Arizona law. However, I am startled by people who seem to expect that Dolan should refuse to have anything to do with the President of the United States, and the leading NY pols. I’ve always enjoyed my visits to NYC. However, it’s a deep blue, very liberal city with a very high abortion rate and its’ elected officals reflect that. So…what is the Cardinal supposed to do? Hole up in St. Patrick’s Cathedral, shunning all the terrible sinners out there? Or does he go break bread with the sinners and engage with the world? The Cardinal of NY, the most high profile Catholic in the nation, cannot be a monk, turning his back on the sinful world. He has to go out there and engage people, powerful, worldy people, including those who hate the Church and all that it stands for.

    Believe me, secular leftists would like nothing more than for Dolan to do what purer-than-pure Catholics seem to want him to do – disengage from politics and refuse to meet with or entertain politicans who are less than pure (by definition, that’s just about every pol out there).

  • While I disagree with Cardinal Dolan’s position on illegal immigration, he is NOT the enemy. We should remember that Satan is the enemy and the Democratic Party operatives his foot-soldiers. Yes, the words Cardinal Dolan used in criticizing the politicians in Arizona who enacted the immigration reform laws that he does not like were harsh, but certainly no harsher than words which I have used to criticize Democratic Party operatives among the clergy. There is a world of difference between Cardinal Dolan who clearly has his heart in the right place, and Bishop Hubbard of the Diocese of Albany who authorized the distribution of needles to heroin addicts in his city, and who gave Holy Communion to pro-abortion, pro-sodomy Andy Cuomo and his live-in mistress Sandra Dee at the Gubernatorial Inaugural Mass, praising Cuomo for ushering in a new age of the gospel of social justice in NY State. Ezekiel 34:1-10 clearly applies in the case of the latter, whereas in Cardinal Dolan’s case, what we should do is write him letters, explaining with reason and dispassionate analysis why his position on illegal immigration is wrong. I get the impression that unlike clerics such as Bishop Hubbard, Cardinal Dolan is amenable to logic and not beholden to partisan politics. True, he has a streak of social justice in him, but I attribute that to the indoctrination which most Catholic clerics received in Seminary in the post-Vatican II environment. And no, there is nothing wrong with Vatican II per se, but rather its interpretation and implementation in liberal Western societies, but that is a topic for a different discussion.

    Suffice it to say that I can disagree with Cardinal Dolan on issues like illegal immigration, but I do think he is a hero when it comes to making Obama feel the discomfort of the influence of the Holy Spirit convicting his soul. I think that has something to do with why Obama launches into Planned Parenthod advertisements right after the Al Smith dinner. He doesn’t like a prince of the Church putting him on the hot seat, so he ups the support for what the Church opposes as though to say, to use a Battlestar Galatica term, “Frack all you Catholics.” I say praise the Lord for Cardinal Dolan (but I still will oppose all that social justice nonsense tooth and nail).

  • I think some of the King Herod comparisons regarding the invite were over the top.

    In hindsight I shouldn’t have said that. My passions get the best of me quiet often. I think the best thing to say is I think it was a bad decision to invite Obama and leave it at that. Bad analogy, I apologize.

  • The comments have been an interesting conversation.

    I watched both videos more than once–this was a national broadcast that matters alot, I think! I watched it from my home in South Puget Sound, WA state, which assuredly will go to Obama thanks to the People’s Republic of Seattle. I loved loved LOVED Romney’s remarks; he may have benefited from a low bar–he is not known for being a great wit. I loved the attacks on Obama, thought they were all wickedly funny; Obama had some funny lines too, but he was not warm and graceful like Romney. Maybe he is dealing with his upcoming election loss, but he has also oft been described as having a “cool” temperament and maybe this has served him poorly. He might have been a better president had he been lampooned this effectively more often in public and the MSM. Finally, I have thought for a while that he has crummy speechwriters; who remembers anything great from his speeches? I sure don’t; what he will be remembered for is that silly line about the oceans rising, etc at the time of his nomination, and his gaffes.

Liberal Reaction to Cardinal Dolan’s Benediction at the Democrat Convention

Sunday, September 9, AD 2012

 

In his benediction at the close of the Democrat Convention last week, Timothy Cardinal Dolan mentioned the unborn.  Here is the text of his prayer:

With a “firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,” let us close this convention by praying for this land that we so cherish and love:

 

Let us Pray.

Almighty God, father of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, revealed to us so powerfully in your Son, Jesus Christ, we thank you for showering your blessings upon this our beloved nation.  Bless all here present, and all across this great land, who work hard for the day when a greater portion of your justice, and a more ample measure of your care for the poor and suffering, may prevail in these United States.  Help us to see that a society’s greatness is found above all in the respect it shows for the weakest and neediest among us.
We beseech you, almighty God to shed your grace on this noble experiment in ordered liberty, which began with the confident assertion of inalienable rights bestowed upon us by you:  life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Thus do we praise you for the gift of life. Grant us the courage to defend it, life, without which no other rights are secure.  We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected.  Strengthen our sick and our elders waiting to see your holy face at life’s end, that they may be accompanied by true compassion and cherished with the dignity due those who are infirm and fragile.

We praise and thank you for the gift of liberty.  May this land of the free never lack those brave enough to defend our basic freedoms.  Renew in all our people a profound respect for religious liberty:  the first, most cherished freedom bequeathed upon us at our Founding. May our liberty be in harmony with truth; freedom ordered in goodness and justice.  Help us live our freedom in faith, hope, and love.  Make us ever-grateful for those who, for over two centuries, have given their lives in freedom’s defense; we commend their noble souls to your eternal care, as even now we beg the protection of your mighty arm upon our men and women in uniform.

We praise and thank you for granting us the life and the liberty by which we can pursue happiness.  Show us anew that happiness is found only in respecting the laws of nature and of nature’s God.  Empower us with your grace so that we might resist the temptation to replace the moral law with idols of our own making, or to remake those institutions you have given us for the nurturing of life and community.  May we welcome those who yearn to breathe free and to pursue happiness in this land of freedom, adding their gifts to those whose families have lived here for centuries.

We praise and thank you for the American genius of government of the people, by the people and for the people.  Oh God of wisdom, justice, and might, we ask your guidance for those who govern us:  President Barack Obama, Vice President Joseph Biden, Congress, the Supreme Court, and all those, including Governor Mitt Romney and Congressman Paul Ryan, who seek to serve the common good by seeking public office.  Make them all worthy to serve you by serving our country.  Help them remember that the only just government is the government that serves its citizens rather than itself. With your grace, may all Americans choose wisely as we consider the future course of public policy.

And finally Lord, we beseech your benediction on all of us who depart from here this evening, and on all those, in every land, who yearn to conduct their lives in freedom and justice.  We beg you to remember, as we pledge to remember, those who are not free; those who suffer for freedom’s cause; those who are poor, out of work, needy, sick, or alone; those who are persecuted for their religious convictions, those still ravaged by war.

And most of all, God Almighty, we thank you for the great gift of our beloved country.

For we are indeed “one nation under God,” and “in God we trust.”

So dear God, bless America.  You who live and reign forever and ever. 

Amen!

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13 Responses to Liberal Reaction to Cardinal Dolan’s Benediction at the Democrat Convention

  • Not only did he speak for the unborn, but he also spoke against so-called same sex “marriage” with these words:

    Show us anew that happiness is found only in respecting the laws of nature and of nature’s God. Empower us with your grace so that we might resist the temptation to replace the moral law with idols of our own making, or to remake those institutions you have given us for the nurturing of life and community.

    His choice of words might have been lost on some people; he could’ve been a bit more direct but I sure caught it when he said it.

  • Is there anyone more intolerant, more divisive, more unkind, more prejudiced, more stereotypical than a liberal Democrat sacrificing an unborn baby at the altar of Molech and reveling in homosexual filth at his Asteroth pole? Nothing has changed in 3000 years.

  • The f- bomb reminds me of a three year old that thinks the word “poopy” is hilarious and will use it three times in every sentence until he is totally ignored and the thrill goes away.

  • Twitter must kill brain cells. Even if I were Liberal I’d be ashamed of these tweets — how about something a _little_ more coherent like “What’s an anti-gay anti-women GOP shill doing at our convention?”

    Sad to see the only support for Card. Dolan from user DontF—WithDolan who responded with an obscene tu quoque.

  • Matthew 5:10-12 – Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

  • Although the contemporary subtext might be a trifle off-putting, I’d say that Cardinal Dolan executed a perfect Trojan horse.

  • I know he has too much class, but I’d love to hear Cdl Dolan give the eulogy at the Obama Administration funeral on Nov 7. Hopefully.

  • Ah, that would be a sight to see Larry!

  • Cardinal Dolan answered our prayers.

  • ….. …has lost much of its shock value and is primarily of use these days as an idiot detector.”
    Couldn’t agree more.

  • Wow, speaking Truth to Power – I thought liberals were all in favor of that?

    You can add hypocrite to intolerant.

  • Phew!!!!! Donald, that language is straight from Lucifer’s Hell. Beloved Americans, what has hit you? How low can you become. Surely, you cannot insult the Cardinal for speaking exactly the way Jesus would speak. What did you expect he would pray for when you invitedhim? But then, perhaps I am the one who needs educating here. Jesus is anathema to the Democracts, right????

  • If you really want to tear ALL of your hair out you should see the “world over live” with Raymond Arroyo (Thurs night) interview with a “prolife Catholic Doctor” who is a Pro-life Democrat in the house. It is the most blathering bunch of idiocy I have ever heard. It’s right up there with Sebilius, Pelosi and all the other “Catholics” who are in governing postitions in our country

Two Memorable Events From Last Night

Friday, September 7, AD 2012

 

Two events from last night stand out.  First, Timothy Cardinal Dolan praying for the unborn at the Democrat Convention in his closing prayer.  Just such an eventuality is why the Democrat powers that be didn’t want the Cardinal to be there to begin with.  Good for the Cardinal.

Second, Jennifer Granholm, former Democrat governor of Michigan, doing the best Howard Dean parody I have ever seen.  ( The impact is somewhat blemished when one recalls that GM is facing bankruptcy again.  Oh well.)

And that was that, nothing else of note.  Bye Democrats.

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9 Responses to Two Memorable Events From Last Night

  • One, “Honey Boo Boo”, her sisters, and her mother went swimming.

    Two, “Honey Boo Boo”, her sisters, and her mother ate (lots of) barbecue.

    Memorable.

    No, wait!

    Three, “Honey Maa Maa” weighted herself. She’s down to 308 lbs.

    That was more memorable than anything that occurred in Charlotte.

  • I watched none of it.

    Courageous bloggers felt duty-bound . . .

    Legal Insurrection/Prof. Jacobson had some tweets:

    “Playing the class warfare really hard, the only war he doesn’t want to end . . . ”

    “The strawman cometh – false choices from a demagogue . . . “

  • Never underestimate your opponent. Obama’scontempt for the intelligence of his constituents has led him to underestimate the will of the people to have good and just government.

    You were right, Donald, Obama does not make a second rate senator.

  • The DNC is in full panic mode. At least last time they had the lackluster Bush to point at. Now the Left is disintegrating before our eyes. If the GOP loses this one, it will be a dimension of suckitude no one has ever seen before.

  • Cardinal Dolan’s prayer was wonderful…” those waiting to be born”. I suspect he wasn’t invited out for drinks afterward.

  • Dick Morris’ analysis was also good. Don’t know if one can find it on http://www.dickmorris.com.

  • This morning Bill Bennett was saying that the speech exhibited a bit of “sympathy” rather than confidence.

    Woe is me, look at what I inherited. I’ve tried my best, give me a bit more time. Etc., etc.

    I think Bill Bennett is right.

    Those listening to the speech came away feeling sorry for Obama and want to help. Not exactly inspiring confidence in the man.

    Contrast that with Paul Ryan saying, “Yes, We Can Do This” to “Woe is me”.

    Love it.

  • I am very proud of the Cardinal. He went straight at them and didn’t flinch.

  • Anybody conversant with the catch-phrases and mots-du-jour of the current election cycle would have to admit that he got 3 or 4 good jabs in, even if they were wrapped in a down pillow. Nicely done, Cardinal Dolan. You spoke to more than just the crowd assembled there, and we heard you.

The Party of Death in Convention Assembled

Sunday, August 26, AD 2012

 

 

Playing up the War on Women meme and the Todd Akin gaffe, the Democrats are going to be celebrating their most sacred rite right at their Convention in September:

Democrats said that they will feature Cecile Richards, president of the Planned Parent Action Fund, Nancy Keenan, president of the NARAL Pro-Choice America and Sandra Fluke, the Georgetown University student whose plea for federal birth control funding drew the ire–and a subsequent apology–from Rush Limbaugh.

What’s more, the Democrats are expanding their list of women ready to assail the GOP on women’s issue, adding Maryland Sen. Barbara Mikulski and actress Eva Longoria to the list that already includes Sen. John Kerry and Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren.

This goes hand in hand with their rejection of Cardinal Dolan’s offer to pray at the Democrat convention.  Dolan is giving the benediction at the Republican convention this week, so in an effort at even-handedness, he offered to do so for the Democrats.  This offer was rejected out of hand.  Why?  It would have been smart politics for the Democrats to have the Cardinal pray for them, perhaps the visuals marginally helping them with Catholic voters.  Yet they turned up their nose.  I can think of three reasons for the rejection:

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37 Responses to The Party of Death in Convention Assembled

  • The Party of Slavery.
    The Party of Death.

    My, how times have changed!

    🙁

  • The parallels between our pro-life fight Paul and the fight against slavery are indeed strong. This from a speech by Lincoln in New Haven, Connecticut on March 6, 1860:

    “But those who say they hate slavery, and are opposed to it, but yet act with the Democratic party — where are they? Let us apply a few tests. You say that you think slavery is wrong, but you denounce all attempts to restrain it. Is there anything else that you think wrong, that you are not willing to deal with as a wrong? Why are you so careful, so tender of this one wrong and no other? [Laughter.] You will not let us do a single thing as if it was wrong; there is no place where you will allow it to be even called wrong! We must not call it wrong in the Free States, because it is not there, and we must not call it wrong in the Slave States because it is there; we must not call it wrong in politics because that is bringing morality into politics, and we must not call it wrong in the pulpit because that is bringing politics into religion; we must not bring it into the Tract Society or the other societies, because those are such unsuitable places, and there is no single place, according to you, where this wrong thing can properly be called wrong! [Continued laughter and applause.]”

    http://www.historyplace.com/lincoln/haven.htm

  • I hope that even women who favor legal abortion see this for what it is – shameless pandering. Silly me, I once thought that the whole point of feminism was to assert that women were to be recognized as equals and not simply as sex objects. What does this obsessive focus on BC and abortion do but reduce women to their sex organs? “Women’s health” has come to mean abortion and birth control and breast cancer, as if those are the only reasons women need medical treatment and the only thing we have on our minds. Forget the economy, jobs, foreign policy, runaway government spending – no, we just sit around contemplating our reproductive organs all day long. We’re apparently too dumb to be interested in any other issue. Who are the sexists here?

  • Well said, Donna V., well said!

  • Donna, I couldn’t have said it better! I’ve long had the same thoughts that the early feminists were real women and mothers. They wanted to be able to vote, they wanted to be treated as equals. It’s insane what it has come to mean nowadays.

  • This is a risky move by the Dems. Many independents do not buy into this phony war on women. Class warfare is a much better strategy for the Dems — dishonest to be sure, but more likely to be effective with middle and working class independents. The right to contraception meme, and placing Planned Parenthood front and center, will not play well with many undecided voters. Its only upside is turning out the base.

  • “I fled, and cry’d out, DEATH!
    Hell trembled at the hideous name, and sigh’d
    From all her caves, and back resounded, DEATH!”
    Line 787, Book II, Paradise Lost

    “So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
    Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
    Evil, be thou my good.”
    Lines 108-110; Book IV.

    “So spake the Fiend, and with necessity,
    The tyrant’s plea, excused his devilish deeds.”
    Lines 393-394. Book IV.

    “Necessity is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves”, William Pitt, Earl of Chatham, Speech on the India Bill, November, 1783.

  • Its only upside is turning out the base.

    I suspect they’re having doubts that they can even solidify and motivate their base to turn out, Mike. First things first and all that.

  • RL,
    I suspect that is true and not a good sign for them. Either party that makes efforts to appeal to its base risks alienating independents. For Romney, that means stick to economic issues. Obama’s best version of that is class warfare. Many working class Dems are not fans of PP, etc., and placing this issue front and center is risky. I suspect that in the echo chamber that is Obama’s campaign, they think most women are sympathetic to Sandra Fluke, when the truth is most never heard of her and most don’t think government should be in the contraception business or promoting abortion.

  • Remember that Sandra Fluke’s demand was specifically not for government to provide her birth control. Rather, it was a demand that government force Georgetown to provide her birth control, and that was her motivation for going to Georgetown in the first place.

    Any time Sandra Fluke makes her way back to the limelight, this should be highlighted.

  • If you have some spare time, you ought to check out some of the pro-slavery tracts from that period. For instance, we often here from pro-abortionists, “If you are so opposed to abortion, how come you are not adopting unwanted children?” There was pro-slavery tract making exactly the same argument to the effect of, “if you are so opposed to slavery, why won’t you pay fair-market value for them and free them yourselves?”

  • Scott W.
    Somewhat Ironically, if the federal government had done just that it would have been an incredible bargain compared to the human and financial costs of the Civil War. Of course, such a scenario would be great fodder for alternative historians (perhaps Don has already pondered it).

  • Lincoln, Mike, when he made statements in favor of compensated emancipation during the War made the same argument. Unfortunately, neither Confederate slave holders or slave holders in the border states were interested.

    “And if, with less money, or money more easily paid, we can preserve the benefits of the Union by this means, than we can by the war alone, is it not also economical to do it? Let us consider it then. Let us ascertain the sum we have expended in the war since compensated emancipation was proposed last March, and consider whether, if that measure had been promptly accepted, by even some of the slave States, the same sum would not have done more to close the war, than has been otherwise done. If so the measure would save money, and, in that view, would be a prudent and economical measure. Certainly it is not so easy to pay something as it is to pay nothing; but it is easier to pay a large sum than it is to pay a larger one.”

    http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=lincoln;cc=lincoln;view=text;idno=lincoln5;rgn=div1;node=lincoln5%3A1126

  • Thanks, Don. I had not realized that. But I’m not surprised. The South’s investment in slavery was more than just financial. It was cultural and entangled with its own sense of self-determination. The War was probably a tragic necessity.

  • Mike Petrik

    The British Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 combined a system of indentures labour for former slaves and substantial compensation. It met with no resistance and also demonstrated that there was no economic case for slavery: the cost of sugar production actually fell after emancipation. The wages of a free labourer and the cost of a slave’s subsistence was the same and a slave represented capital sunk in a wasting asset.

    Likewise, there was no resistance to the abolition of serfdom in Russia in 1861

    I have always thought that slavery in the South was supported, not only by slave-owners, but by the majority of those who were not, as a police measure, not an economic one. It was about controlling the black population. The “Jim Crow” laws, enacted after 1876 bear this out.

  • “If you have some spare time, you ought to check out some of the pro-slavery tracts from that period.”

    What I find interesting is how pro-slavery opinion “hardened” in stages between 1776 and 1860 in a manner not unlike the “hardening” of pro-abortion opinion from, say, 1920 up to the present. From what I understand (this is just a very basic outline), at the time of the Declaration, even Southerners admitted that slavery was not a good thing — it was a necessary evil that, hopefully, could be abolished someday, and in the meantime could be limited with measures such as the abolition of foreign slave trade.

    Then along came the cotton gin and the rise of the cotton industry in the South, which increased demand for slaves. (You could say that the cotton gin, by jump-starting the cotton industry, did for slavery what the Pill, by jump-starting the sexual revolution, did for abortion — counterintuitively, it increased demand for the very thing one would think it would replace.) Consequently, intra-state and inter-state slave trade also became more lucrative, and growing slave populations in the older slave states “had” to go somewhere.

    Hence the ballistic reaction of Southern Congressmen when in 1819, a Northern Congressman proposed a rather mild scheme of gradual emancipation for slaves as a condition for admission of the Missouri Territory as a state (no present slaves would be freed, but any slave children born after statehood would be freed on their 25th birthday). The ensuing debate, which included not so subtle threats of secession and war by representatives of Southern states, was the first real indication that the South had shifted from “Slavery is a bad thing and we’ll get rid of it eventually” to “Slavery is NOT going away and you Northerners had better find a way to live with it.”

    The way that was found to “live with” slavery was, of course, the famous Missouri Compromise setting a geographic boundary between slave and free territory. After that, slavery kind of went on the back burner as a national issue until the mid-1840s, when the annexation of Texas and the Mexican War presented the prospect of a vast expansion of territory potentially open to slavery.

    By this time, Southern opinion had hardened even more and they were now insisting upon expansion of slavery or else. The result: the so-called Compromise of 1850, which included, among other measures, a stricter Fugitive Slave Law compelling residents of free states to cooperate in the return of escaped slaves to their owners. Now, the pro-slavery side had moved beyond a “just leave us alone” stance to insisting that slave ownership couldn’t be merely tolerated, it was an absolute “right” that the federal government should protect.

    Finally, there was the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the Dred Scott decision, which basically turned slave ownership into a “right” that could not be geographically limited except, perhaps, by popular vote. Now slave owners, for all practical purposes, had the right to own slaves anywhere and at any time — just as today’s Planned Parenthood, et al. fight for the right to abort babies at any time and for any reason.

  • One difference is that abortion was legally murder until 1973 when the Supremes conjured a Constitutional right to “privacy.”

  • T Shaw,
    That is a bit of an exaggeration. First, the legality of abortion was a state question, and state laws varied — including several where if was legal on demand. Further the trend favored liberalization. Second, in states where if was criminalized, it was not classified as murder, and penalties were not comparable.

    http://www.aul.org/2010/04/why-the-states-did-not-prosecute-women-for-abortion-before-roe-v-wade/

  • Mike Petrik

    Under Scottish practice, abortionists were, invariably, charged, at common law, with using an instrument or administering a poison or other noxious substance, with intent to procure a miscarriage.

    In this way, prosecutors did not have to prove that the child was alive at the time of the offence, or, even, that the woman was pregnant; it was enough that the abortionist thought she was, or even, might be.

    Given the rule, “Testis unus, testis nullus” [one witness is no witness] prosecutors usually had to rely on the evidence of two women who had undergone abortions (such witnesses to a course of criminal conduct being regarded as mutually corroborative). Now, a witness’s precognition cannot be used against them and, once they testify as a socius criminis, they are immune from prosecution anyway.

    As a matter of practice, therefore, the prosecution of the woman would usually face insuperable obstacles.

  • The fact is that the liberals already have their photo opportunity with Cardinal Dolan at the Al Smith Dinner and they can use that night and its images to portray singularity with the Catholic Church, which they know luke-warm Catholics will eat up in their effort to find an excuse to vote for and defend Obama or other liberal agendas. They don’t need another moment of Cardinal Dolan’s time, he has already been very generous to offer a moment for the liberal media to feed on. it’s a good thing that Cardinal Dolan isn’t being welcome at the DNC, he should not be giving blessings to a party that has used the HHS Mandate to make Catholics in this country question their values and morals, and will also be using pro-abortion as its major platform for the DNC. The Catholic Church should not be seen anywhere near an event that upholds this murderous ideology.

  • T. Shaw says:
    “One difference is that abortion was legally murder until 1973 when the Supremes conjured a Constitutional right to “privacy.””

    I did not know that there was not a right to privacy enjoyed by all people. If the Supreme Court was affirming the “right to privacy”, then it must have affirmed the “right to privacy “ enjoyed by all people. If the Supreme Court was rewriting the unalienable “right to privacy” endowed by “their Creator”, then the court corrupted true freedom.
    How did the Court go from the “right to privacy” enjoyed by all people to the “right to privacy” for the woman’s body for the perpetration of abortion, and paid for by all men, women, and children including those unborn of our constitutional posterity?

  • Mike Petric, Michael Paterson-Seymour:

    How does the termination of a human being’s existence become less of a crime only because legal authorities do not have the wherewithall to prosecute?

    If human rights came from the government, the government can tax you for taking human rights away.

  • “We shall go before a higher tribunal – a tribunal where a Judge of infinite goodness, as well as infinite justice, will preside, and where many of the judgments of this world will be reversed.” Thomas Meagher, late B/G, Commander Irish Brigade, March 1862 to May 1863.

  • Don, I can see where you’re going with this. You’re calling for reparations for the descendants of slave-owners, right? That sounds like political gold!

  • Mary, many sins are not crimes, and in some cases that is precisely for prudential reasons such as unenforecability. While Christendom long treated abortion as a sin and a crime, the offense was not really considered a variant of murder and penalties were almost always directed toward the abortionists rather than the mothers. The word “right” has an uneasy relationship with Catholic tradition, but governments will always secure rights imperfectly, and necessarily so. This is not to suggest that abortion is not a serious sin that should be criminalized (it is and should), but current human circumstances, or perhaps the human condition itself, makes it very difficult, and probably unwise or even unjust, to criminalize it as murder.

  • Mike Petric “the offense was not really considered a variant of murder and penalties were almost always directed toward the abortionists rather than the mothers.”

    The abortionist is precisely the individual who must be held accountable. The abortionist’s crime is more than scraping the human soul, God’s will from the womb. The abortionist’s crime is not aiding and assisting in the mother’s, another human being’s, time of need.

  • The sin is in the abrogation of God’s Will by killing the unborn baby, i.e., God’s creation.

  • Pinky says:
    Don, I can see where you’re going with this. You’re calling for reparations for the descendants of slave-owners, right? That sounds like political gold!

    After the Civil War, every freed slave was offered one mule and forty acres of land to support himself. Some accepted the offer. Others went west. There was a movement to make reparations to the descendants of slaves by counting each black persons’ vote as two votes. Not fair, nor is it conducive to good government. Many people did not own slaves. Immigrant people may even have been slaves. How can it be fair to tax a person who has not owned slaves because he has become an American citizen? If Lincoln had not offered a settlement of forty acres and a mule to every slave, a settlement would be necessary.

  • As Nicholas P. pointed out above, the progressive liberal Catholics have their nod of sanction from the Al Smith dinner. It would be a bit hard to take for the Cardinal to say a benediction after hours of speeches dedicated to the killing of the unborn. I assume he offered since his offer was accepted for the Republican convention. He appears to be trying to be meticulous in not being cast as backing either party.

  • The 40 acres and a mule offer was never official US policy, but was the substance of a single ad hoc order by General Sherman (Special Field Order N0. 15) intended to apply to Blacks who were in the proximity of his army as it marched through Georgia. Sherman even set aside South Carolina’s Sea Islands for this purpose, and that acreage was quickly absorbed by the intended beneficiaries. But the idea that freed slaves were more generally given this option is mistaken.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_acres_and_a_mule

  • Mary – I was kidding.

  • Pinky- For the record, I’m all in favor of reparations. Anybody who is a descendant of a slave must make reparations TO the US for having had the privilege of being born here as a result. Lord knows where they would have been otherwise.

  • ry de Voe wrote, “How does the termination of a human being’s existence become less of a crime only because legal authorities do not have the wherewithall to prosecute?”

    It doesn’t. I was merely pointing out the limits of enforcement.

    In the same way, in France, the maximum penalty for procuring an abortion was 5 years imprisonment. Had it been more than 5 years, the accused would have been entitled to a jury trial and juries notoriously refused to convict a « faiseuse d’anges » [angel maker] as the French call village abortionists. Even so, every village had one; everyone knew it; no one talked about it; the police regarded it as “women’s business.” It was only when a woman died that the Parquet, like Captain Renault, in Casablanca, professed themselves “shocked, shocked, to discover” that such things went on and M. le curé would preach an edifying sermon on the following Sunday.

  • Michael Paterson-Seymour:
    Statutes against abortion were wiped away by Roe v. Wade. These statutes were for the edification of all people to know that the government valued the newly begotten human being. And even though they may have been unenforceable, the statutes defined the culture.

    When my mom got pregnant with my sister, the local midwife asked: “Do you want it?”. After my sister was born and mom got me, the local midwife again asked: “Do you want it?” I was able to write: “Here I am. Mom chose me.” This midwife was the richest woman in the county.

    Still, Michael, the statutes define our culture and our culture of life has been expunged from our neighborhood, stolen from our senses and evicted from our consciences, as has the reality of the human being’s immortal soul. Let us at least have the statutes to point to when the day of wrath comes upon us. Thank you, too, for your fine reply to my post.

    Mike Petrik:

    “The 40 acres and a mule offer was never official US policy, but was the substance of a single ad hoc order by General Sherman (Special Field Order N0. 15) intended to apply to Blacks who were in the proximity of his army as it marched through Georgia. Sherman even set aside South Carolina’s Sea Islands for this purpose, and that acreage was quickly absorbed by the intended beneficiaries. But the idea that freed slaves were more generally given this option is mistaken.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_acres_and_a_mule

    Thank you for this, Mike Petric. My ignorance is showing. And who would have thought it would be Sherman? But thinking, at the time, our country had open space that could be squatted on as in the Homestead Act (which is still viable, see indwellers ) and became yours after seven years. Being a free man and a citizen, the former slave could own property and vote, and as Paul D. writes. It is pretty good to be a U.S. citizen.
    As an aside, Clinton wrote an Executive Order making all free lands and waterways the purview of the chief executve. Squatter’s rights be damned, but these rights do exist in the laws.

    Pinky says:
    Mary – I was kidding.
    Pinky: I was laughing.

  • Mike Petrik, So sorry I misspelled your name.

    If Cardinal Dolan gives the benediction reaffirming the unborn, begotten human being’s right to life, he may not escape with his life. Mother Teresa did at the Prayer Breakfast with the Clintons and at the Noble Peace Prize. Did anyone notice Obama skipped the Prayer Breakfast. too dangerous for a communist.
    Cardinal Dolan is quite capable of affirming man’s unalienable right to life and his freedom of conscience.

    Congress passed the Affordable Healthcare Act handing over its authentic authority to speak for the people in government. Congress does not have the power to trade away representative government’s checks and balances. The Affordable Healthcare Act is legislative nonsense. The HHS mandate is totalitarianism. Congress cannot legislate nonsense.

  • No worries at all, Mary.
    FWIW I doubt Cardinal Dolan will disappoint.

  • Mary de Voe

    I agree that laws can serve for edification and affirming moral values. I would simply add that sometimes a less than ideal measure of enforcement is better than none at all.

    For example, drunkenness is a bad thing, but we only prosecute drunkenness in a public place. Lying is wrong, but we only prosecute the more harmful forms – Falsehood, fraud and wilful imposition, or perjury and so on. We sometimes give immunity to thieves, so they can testify against a resetter.

    A great Catholic jurist, Portalis – he had suffered for the Faith during the French Revolution and was one of the people who drafted the Code Napoléon, said, “Christianity, which speaks only to the conscience, guides by grace the little number of the elect to salvation; the law restrains by force the unruly passions of wicked men, in the interests of public order/public policy [l’ordre public]”

The Anti-Catholic Party

Thursday, May 10, AD 2012

Cardinal Dolan yesterday released this statement regarding Obama’s announcement that he had “evolved” and now, as he did in 1996 when first asked about it, supports gay marriage:

 

May 9, 2012 WASHINGTON—Cardinal Timothy Dolan, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), issued the following statement:

President Obama’s comments today in support of the redefinition of marriage are deeply saddening. As I stated in my public letter to the President on September 20, 2011, the Catholic Bishops stand ready to affirm every positive measure taken by the President and the Administration to strengthen marriage and the family. However, we cannot be silent in the face of words or actions that would undermine the institution of marriage, the very cornerstone of our society. The people of this country, especially our children, deserve better. Unfortunately, President Obama’s words today are not surprising since they follow upon various actions already taken by his Administration that erode or ignore the unique meaning of marriage. I pray for the President every day, and will continue to pray that he and his Administration act justly to uphold and protect marriage as the union of one man and one woman. May we all work to promote and protect marriage and by so doing serve the true good of all persons.

When the Tokugawa shogunate was stamping out Christianity in Japan, it made use of Fumi-e (stepping on pictures).  Regime officials would place pictures of Jesus or Mary before suspected Christians and order them to step on them.  Refusal to do so, if persisted in, would end in execution.  In our own country we are seeing the growth of a movement just as antithetical in theory to Catholicism and traditional Christianity as the Tokugawa shogunate, and it finds its home in the Democrat party. 

What we have seen over the past few decades is the evolution of the Democrat party into an overtly anti-Catholic party.  The Obama administration is the culmination of this trend.  This of course is deeply ironic, because the Democrat party is a major party in this country with the help of the votes of tens of millions of purported Catholics.

In the past four decades the Democrats, with honorable exceptions, have championed abortion which is anathema to the teachings of the Church.  The embrace of homosexuality followed, which has caused governments around the nation to drive the Church out of adoptions because the Church refuses to arrange adoptions by homosexual couples.  In California, a state wholly controlled by the Democrat party, homosexual indoctrination, masquerading as education, is now mandated in public schools.  For cynical political purposes the Obama administration this year has proposed that Catholic institutions, and individual Catholic employers, be required to provide “free” contraceptive coverage, and is quite willing to run roughshod over the First Amendment to accomplish this goal.  Now we have the President’s support of gay marriage, although, until he further “evolves” I guess, he “generously” stated his opinion that churches opposed to gay marriages should not be required to officiate at them.  These changes in society are the modern Fumi-e by which believing Catholics and traditional Christians are made to renounce, in effect, the teachings of Christ step by step.

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64 Responses to The Anti-Catholic Party

  • I don’t see how any Catholic can now vote Democratic unless they are so ideologically blinded that they cannot see what they are doing. I also believe that one now has to vote to limit the evil that is the Obama Administration. Unfortunately, at least as I see it, one must vote for Romney unless they are in a very red state.

  • No thanks to you traitors that keep voting democrat.

    You and your politicians are enemies of the Kingdom of God.

    The worst president in history needs gay marriage, class hatred, etc. in order to distract drones and serfs from endless war and the depressed economy.

  • There are two Catholics from birth at my place of work. One (I know) goes to Mass regularly. Both support gay marriage and contraception. One (the individual who goes to Mass) supports abortion. I have spent hours (and many written pages) discussing these things with each of them. Even last night I discussed for 45 minutes with one of them why I supported NC Amendment One (in response to his question). Nothing I have done or said can persuade them, though both admit that I know much more about the Catechism and the Bible. They are blind – completely, totally and hopelessly blind – as is perhaps 50% of the Church.

    BTW, the company for which I work is completely in favor of LGBT rights. We have to go through annual diversity training on this very issue. We’re not good nuclear professionals unless we support and agree with LGBT rights. I suspect this is true in any large, mulitnational or regulated company or corporation nowadays. You cannot imagine my disgust and anger.

  • On a positive note: Obama is not all failure all the time.

    Using mathematical formulas, math geniuses have calculated based on Ministry of Truth methods for calculating the unemployment rate, it will be zero by 2022, and negative a month later.

  • Here’s our old friend Tony trying to pretend that his party is anything BUT the overtly anti-Catholic monstrosity that it has become:

    “Support the Big Tent of the Democratic Party

    With the Republican party becoming completely unacceptable as a valid electoral choice, this initiative assumes greater importance than ever. Please sign, and please pass on!

    The idea is to support the following language in the Democratic platform:

    “We respect the conscience of each American and recognize that members of our Party have deeply held and sometimes differing positions on issues of personal conscience, like abortion and the death penalty. We recognize the diversity of views as a source of strength and we welcome into our ranks all Americans who may hold differing positions on these and other issues.

    However, we can find common ground. We believe that we can reduce the number of abortions because we are united in our support for policies that assist families who find themselves in crisis or unplanned pregnancies. We believe that women deserve to have a breadth of options available as they face pregnancy: including, among others, support and resources needed to handle the challenges of pregnancy, adoption, and parenthood; access to education, healthcare, childcare; and appropriate child support. We envision a new day without financial or societal barriers to bringing a planned or unplanned pregnancy to term.”

    http://vox-nova.com/2012/05/09/support-the-big-tent-of-the-democratic-party/

    I’ll agree with Tony re: the Republicans (at the very least for this presidential election cycle), but for different reasons than he would conclude. But he’s either completely delusional or completely dishonest (and those really ARE the ONLY options) regarding his party of choice. I’ll be charitable and go with delusional.

  • There are no big tents in Heaven.

    “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, * that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” Matthew 7:13-14

  • Obama’s announcement that he had “evolved” and now, as he did in 1996 when first asked about it, supports gay marriage

    I suppose it’s more accurate to say he “revolved” than evolved. Although the truth is he simply lied about his ambivalence or lack of support.

    As far as I know, abortion and the death penalty are not issues of personal conscience, and certainly not from a Catholic perspective. There is an objectively right and objectively wrong answer on both.

    And what is this pablum about diversity of views being a source of strength?!?! HA! The Demoncratic Party has the LEAST diversity of views of any organization on Earth!!

  • I don’t know who “our old friend Tony is,” but at the risk of sounding naive, the piece has a snarky, passive-aggressive sarcastic demeanor to it; a kind of “if they were who they said they were, this is what they would do, but we all know the truth” nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

    The very notion of a “Big Tent” Democrat Party is so absurd that there really can’t be anything but absurdity in the whole thing. It can’t be seriously taken seriously.

    Seriously.

  • One (I know) goes to Mass regularly. Both support gay marriage and contraception. One (the individual who goes to Mass) supports abortion. I have spent hours (and many written pages) discussing these things with each of them. Even last night I discussed for 45 minutes with one of them why I supported NC Amendment One (in response to his question). Nothing I have done or said can persuade them, though both admit that I know much more about the Catechism and the Bible. They are blind – completely, totally and hopelessly blind – as is perhaps 50% of the Church.

    What is their counter-argument? From where are they taking their cues?

  • WK,

    If you knew Morning’s Minion (aka Tony) like we know him, you’d know that he’s 100% serious.

  • If I recall, Tony is either Irish or Canadian. He is not to my understanding a naturalized American citizen. He showed up on blogs before the last election using the wars and torture issues to turn votes away from Republicans. Used the standard “social justice” lines to justify voting for the most anti-social justice President in history.

    Now going about spreading his distorted presentation of Catholic Social Teaching to enshrine voting for Democrats.

    Why he doesn’t just go back home is beyond me. Unless he is some fellow traveller type presenting himself as Catholic.

  • Paul, I can relate to what you’re saying. Unbelievably, the people that I work with who voted for Obama the first time are going to vote for him again. And I work for a Catholic Church! I do not for the life of me understand their logic and blindness. This man is an “anti-christ” and they cannot see his evil. I know we must pray for them, and I too have on occasion discussed the issues with them, but it is no longer any good. We are at a point where we have to pray to Our Lord and Our Lady for ourselves and everyone we love to be placed under their protection and to be a part of the remnant that will remain faithful to Him during the coming chastisement that is now inevitable.

  • Pingback: THURSDAY MID-DAY EXTRA: Catholic Reaction to President Obama on Same-Sex Marriage | The Pulpit
  • While EVERY person may choose to love God in his own way, public funds and those in public office compensated by public taxes may not deconstruct our Declaration of Independence by removing “their Creator”, the Person of God, WHO endows unalienable rights to all men, WHO created all men equal and keeps them in existence, from one moment to the next. The Person of God speaks to us through our founding principles, The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution for the United States of America, with laws that protect and provide for each and every Person, especially the PERSON OF GOD, because the Person of God is “their Creator”, and as persons, all men are the image of God in sovereignty expressed as free will in FREEDOM, the will of the people and the voice of the people. God gives us freedom and the state may not remove our freedom nor the knowledge of our freedom, such as conscience, from the people using the public money. Private persons may agree with the HHS mandate, gay marriage, abortion, but they are not free to use tax dollars to deconstruct out First Amendment rights to freedom, or to use the public forum to deny people knowledge of their First Amendment civil rights, or any freedom of our founding principles.

  • Only a shameless partisan hack would somehow turn Obama’s support for gay marriage into a post condemning Cardinal Dolan and Lockean liberalism. And luckily, Tony is just that kind of partisan hack.

  • The USA doesn’t have an anti-Catholic party. It is an anti-Catholic country, founded by anti-Catholics, using an anti-Catholic political philosophy. The USA isn’t just anti-Catholic by inclination. It is anti-Catholic by design. (Which means that it’s point of reference is still the Catholic Church in that the program models itself upon being against what so ever the Catholic Church is for.)*

    Root meet fruit.

    The point of attack has to be against the the tacit assumptions upon which this castle of sand is founded: Protestantism, and it’s unnatural progeny Liberalism. Every ounce of Catholic effort has to directed towards completing the counter-reformation. The Roman Catholic Church is the higher order of government. Washington must be brought to renounce London and kneel before the Chair of Peter.^

    *First Rule of Catholic blogging: make sure to write “Catholic” as many times as possible.
    ^Second Rule of Catholic blogging: aim high (be ye not lukewarm). God likes to do the miraculous.

  • It is an anti-Catholic country, founded by anti-Catholics, using an anti-Catholic political philosophy.

    Channeling Don here: rubbish. Although your writing does vaguely resemble that of the blogger mentioned in the previous comment. You even have that first name, last initial thing going for you.

    General Rule of Blogging: try to be at least minimally coherent.

  • Paul Zummo:
    You might want to check the best-before-date on your Ph.D in politics. Have you investigated going back and trying to get a refund? What? No warranty? Sucker.

    General rule of history: read it. Oh, wait, you are a political science guy. Never mind.

  • Darren:

    You might want to check this out. It more than ably refutes your contention that this country was founded on an anti-Catholic political philosophy:

    http://catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0003.html

  • Paul Zummo:

    Look, I am sorry. I’m new here and I don’t know you. Nobody likes to get their comments treated so dismissively, but that doesn’t give me the right to resort to snark. I hope that you can accept my apology.

    My name is Darren Ouellette. I’m from Canada, which I gather is a negative around here. Whatever. We like to surf.

  • Greg Mockeridge:
    Well, that establishes that Jefferson was highly influenced Catholic sources, but it would surely be a leap to say that this establishes Jefferson as a Catholic. Important distinction, no? In addition, he was probably the only framer that knew he cribbed from Catholic sources. It is safe to say that he was very well read. In deed, this has to be one of the great cover-ups of history to only now have the DOI unmasked as a stealth Catholic document. The article you link to actually only pertains to the DOI. An insufficient counter-balance to the otherwise thorough-going Protestant character of War of Independence-era colonial America, IMHO.

    Interesting never the less.

  • “My name is Darren Ouellette. I’m from Canada, which I gather is a negative around here.”

    Not by me since my late mother was a proud Newfie and I spent most of the first four years of my life in Saint John’s. My mother became a naturalized citizen of the United States, but she never lost her fondness for her home land, a fondness I share as the previous blog posts I have done on aspects of Newfoundland culture can attest.

    “It is an anti-Catholic country, founded by anti-Catholics, using an anti-Catholic political philosophy.”

    No. The Founding Fathers, although some of them shared in the anti-Catholic prejudices of their day, established a country where Catholics, as well as Protestants, could live in freedom, practice their faith, and participate in the government. The greatest of the Founding Fathers, George Washington, was ever a friend to Catholics:

    http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/11/05/george-washington-and-catholics/

    Here is what Pope Leo Xiii had to say about American and its founding:

    http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/02/22/pope-leo-xiii-on-america-and-george-washington/

  • No worries Darren. I certainly instigated with my own snark, and I do apologize to you.

    But yes, considering the time period the Framers were generally respectful of Catholicism, with certain exceptions of course. John Adams had a grudging respect for the Church, though I recall him not caring much for the Latin Mass.

    And while I know the comment was made in sarcastic jest, some of us poly sci guys still love our history – at least those of us not trying to find the median voter in Chicago’s 11th ward on windy and rainy Tuesdays in March.

  • Jay Anderson, thanks for the insight. In that case, the man truly is certifiable.

    “My name is Darren Ouellette. I’m from Canada, which I gather is a negative around here.”

    Not a chance, unless some NDP blather starts leaking out . . .

    My Dad is the first American on his side of the family tree. Nowadays the clan hails from Trenton, Ontario, and there’s even an “Aiken’s Road” that leads out to where the RCAF base is, or used to be if it isn’t anymore.

    I have an Uncle Danny who used to work for Chrysler Canada, the makers of the largest cargo van Chrysler made. I had an Uncle Sonny who used to work for Labatt’s, and supervised the loading dock. Back in the day, we had family reunions up in the area every July.

    You do the math.

  • Wow, Darren. Think about what you’re saying. Massive colonial territories in the Western hemisphere were ruled by a country where to be Catholic meant either persecution (executions, having monasteries stolen or destroyed, priests hiding in tiny holes in the floor of homes) at worst and second class status at best (a lot of history on these in Ireland). To this day no Catholic can become the Monarch. The War of Independence freed Catholics of that rule and the resulting government reaffirmed their dignity and free exercise of religion.

    Your last name indicates that you’re French, at least partly so. You realize that while Quebec was French (The US attained french territories as well), most of the rest of your nation was ruled by an anti-Catholic regime, right? You realize that Canada wasn’t borne out of explicitly Catholic principles either? Though I would argue that while the founding of the United States wasn’t borne out of explicit Catholic principles, most were compatible with Catholic understanding of the dignity of man. These were ahead of their time and answer to a seriously problem of an older age. This has been affirmed repeatedly over the last 200 years by popes and bishops.

  • The USA isn’t just anti-Catholic by inclination. It is anti-Catholic by design.

    I think I recognize the writings of John Rao here. That is spoilt Vegemite you should not eat.

  • Art Deco:
    I have no idea who John Rao is. My reading of history in this instance is more influenced by Hilaire Belloc. I will look him up.

    RL:
    I am not saying any other countries are better and freely acknowledge that some were significantly worse. In fact it would not occur to me to separate out the developments in European culture and its transatlantic extension in terms of one country vs. another. I view it to be all of a piece, namely: to watch how a house turned against itself falls.

    My name indicates that I am Canadien (you will not find it in France prior to Quebec), and I am well aware that many of my cousins were loosing their heads to anti-Catholic traitors in France, but my kin had been away from France for well over 100 years by then.

    The DOI was compatible with natural law reasoning which, being written upon our hearts by Him who created us, should not cause surprise. Men, in searching their hearts for the truth, will often make recourse to natural law reasoning. The Catholic faith is truly the teaching of the heart, so, no surprise that there is a rich load of natural law reasoning tradition to be sieved by those with the charitable inclination. Never the less, I do not see the recourse to natural law reasoning by the F. F. as sufficient grounds to admit that this indicates a widespread pro-Catholic inclination (at best a toleration) among the general population or intelligentsia. They were Protestants and Masons, keenly given over to reasoning models fully untethered from sound Orthodoxy. I just do not see how these clearly anti-Catholic dispositions can be of no account when the foundation of the USA and it’s subsequent course of development is brought before one’s consideration.

    No, the most compatible understanding of the true nature of Man is the Catholic understanding. The inherent contradictions of those traditions that explicitly reject or do not fully assent to the Catholic understanding bring forth the fruits we in the West enjoy {sic} today.

    Now to the meat of your point: the FF’s allowed room for Catholics to practice the “cult” aspect of their religion, so long as accepted the Protestant-style deal with the secular powers. That deal, while probably better than nothing, is less than it should be.

  • Oh, and thank you to all for your expressions of affection for your northern neighbours. Perhaps the feeling will not last towards me, but at least I will know it will be centred in your disagreement with my historical interpretations and not a knee-jerk reaction to my non-US subjecthood.

    Again, my thanks.

  • Don McClarey:
    Please accept my thanks for your efforts in providing this wonder blog with so many richly interesting posts. It pains me that I am in disagreement with you upon your assessment of the USA has having an if not pro- then at least not anti-Catholic character, but I just do not see sufficient grounds on the basis of a few isolated instances of less than a handful of FF having a magnanimity towards Catholicism in general and Catholics in particular, to accept that, in the great tumult of post-reformation European culture (noting that I do not separate the USA from the European nations for purposes of culture), the USA can be considered as a Catholic nation.
    Granted, I’d be hard pressed to actually name ANY nation that would be considered Catholic by my admittedly high standard, but in affirming to all the tenants which the Catholic faith purposes to my reasoning, I am obliged to expect nothing less.

    I do not wish to be an ungrateful guest. I hope that I do not become an unwelcome one in my dissent.

  • Now to the meat of your point: the FF’s allowed room for Catholics to practice the “cult” aspect of their religion, so long as accepted the Protestant-style deal with the secular powers. That deal, while probably better than nothing, is less than it should be.

    The ‘meat’ is institutional architecture, not cogitations about institutional architecture. The architecture may have its defects, but it is neither more nor less compatible with a Catholic society than any other architecture. As for the ‘Protestant-style’ deal, there was and is no Catholic society upon which to construct a confessional state. There was a modest (and much abused minority) in Maryland and a presence in three other colonies. The society was not merely protestant but modally Calvinist. A confessional state would have injured the Church and would continue to injure it (see the relation between state and society surrounding the “Church of Sweden”).

  • Art Deco:
    No, I do not mean a confessional state, I mean a subsidiary governing structure, ie: a state, but necessarily a state, being in acknowledgement of the fact that the Pope and the Hierarchy of the Church is the superior source of governing authority because it maintains the deposit of faith upon which truth in society may be maintained. The USA most definitely does not acknowledge this relationship. That is an architectural, not dispositional, element of the governing structure of the USA. The concept I put forward supposes that those states that so acknowledge the Chair of St. Peter will have a sizable percentage of the population actively practicing the faith and forming their morality in accord there with, while the balance of the people do not actively attempt to undermine it.

    My reading of the Protestant revolution is that the rebel novel confessions sought to place themselves under the protection of secular rulers violating the relationship between the Christian religion and secular authority by inverting it. Supporting this inversion paid hansom dividends for some, but rent Christendom.

    For Catholics in Protestant dominated states, as I said above, you are free to engage in those aspects of the Catholic faith that can be placed under the distinction of cult, for it is held that one “cult” be of no different value than any other denomination (heresy of denominationalism), but Catholics may not make claims, in defense, that the law of the Church (teaching magisterium, code of canon law, traditional worship) precludes the practicing Catholic from actions of the secular state that violate the Faith. Nor is appealing to the Pope likely to do one much good today as the praxis of “how many divisions does the Pope command?” or “You and what army?” is the order of the day for almost all states. This is the out come of the Protestant rebellion. I do not see how the USA, in drawing so heavily upon the claims constellation of Protestantism, specific exceptions noted, can be considered as Catholophilic except in so far as Catholics accept the deal to abjure the status of the Magisterium as higher authority. In practice, so long as it is convenient for the interests which have domiciled themselves in the governing architecture of the USA, there can be good times. Inherent, however, is the inevitability of a clash between the unable to change Catholics and the change as needed secularists.

  • being in acknowledgement of the fact that the Pope and the Hierarchy of the Church is the superior source of governing authority because it maintains the deposit of faith upon which truth in society may be maintained. The USA most definitely does not acknowledge this relationship. That is an architectural, not dispositional, element of the governing structure of the USA

    No, it is a dispositional and not architectural feature. There is a distinction between spiritual and temporal power.

    Parastatal authority could be found in the hands of diocesan bishops and also abbots, but the papacy was not typically the locus of temporal power outside of central Italy.

  • I am not claiming that the Church Hierarchy is, except in tertiary functions, a temporal power.

    It could relent in the dispositional/architectural distinction.* The USA could, in theory, start acknowledging the authority of the Church Hierarchy, making it dispositional. I am incapable of determining if that would affect governing structures in already in place and active for some period of time within the USA, leaving aside the obvious cultural issues.

    *I could also not relent. I highly doubt, for example, that the SCOTUS could overturn federal law because it was deemed to be in conflict with the teachings of the RCC, no? That would be architectural.

  • Correction:
    I could relent in the…

  • “The USA could, in theory, start acknowledging the authority of the Church Hierarchy, making it dispositional.”

    That would never happen. The great thing for Catholicism in this country is that the State left the Church alone. One of the popes in the early portion of the nineteenth century, no fan of new fangled democracies, said that in no country was he more the Pope than in the United States. The experience of the Church with Catholic confessional states has often been far from happy, because of constant government interference with the Church, up to and including controlling the nomination of bishops. The Church in America has flourished with the hands off policy of the government. Currently we are battling against the Obama administration because it is diverging from that salutary policy, but for over two centuries freedom from government interference has been a boon for the Church in this country.

  • Donald R. McClarey:
    Which is largely my point, in that the Obamba reading of American liberal democracy is not without source material, even if that potential has been rarely actuated over the course of American history.

    It is my purpose to attempt to understand this phenomenon and search for more suitable ground upon which the Faith may flourish. It will likely be difficult to now have status quo ante.

  • What Obama is attempting to do is in direct contradiction to the intention of the Founding Fathers and the express language of the Constitution. There is no source material in our country’s history for his actions against the Church. That is why his actions are being challenged in our courts and why Obama has an excellent chance of being a one term president.

    I do not think you can find a government in history where the Church has so rapidly expanded as it has in the United States over the past two centuries and with virtually zero interference from the State.

  • Darren:

    I was not asserting Jefferson was a proto-Catholic, but that the political philosophy that undergirds the Declaration of Independence and thus America herself, is in line with Catholic political thought. In any case, the U.S. was not founded on an anti-Catholic political philosophy.

  • Greg:
    I thought you were suggesting that he was a crypto-Catholic. By your standard, Protestants are in line with Catholic theology because they read the Bible. You overstate your case. Congruence in a few particulars is not synonymous with concordance in generalities.

    It is my position that every post 1517 Western intellectual development – in the non- and anti-Catholic camp – is an ostracon of the Catholic Faith. Why should I drop my panties when someone manages to finds a fragment of what was lost in the Frankenstein cobbled together to save face after the original was shattered?

    Seriously, how does one find a political philosophy that is “of this world” that isn’t anti-Catholic? The capital “T” Truth has been established. Any other attempts at restatement are necessarily going to be bizarre fun house mirror images.

    I realize that being a foreigner & pulling out the j’accuse is likely to cause the wagons to circle, but I at least thought on a site for those claiming fealty to the RCC there would be a little more awareness of how American Exceptionalism probably isn’t quite so.

    My bad.

  • Let me give another perspective from a political progressive. Our sense is that there is a distinct movement in the Church hierarchy to a “take or leave it” mentality as it relates to issues like abortion, birth control and homosexuality. The USCBB has been uneven, if not totally hypocritical in its use of a false “religious liberty” argument with respect to PPACA regulations relating to access to birth control. The Church’ teaching on that matter is certainly not an inerrant one and as recently as 1968 a commission sent a recommendation to Paul VI to allow birth control, which he unfortunately declined to do.

    It is the liberal perspective that the Church lives and thrives when it engages in constructive dialogue with all parties and evolves in its teachings that are not core to the faith. Revealed Gospels say little if not anything authoritative about marriage, birth control, abortion and homosexuality once you read the texts and understand the context. From my personal perspective, it’s the lack of textual literacy, bad interpretations and lack of constructive dialogue within the Church itself that leads to our current divisions.

    I just listened to a Town Hall in which Cardinal Dolan spoke. He sounds like a very nice man on a personal basis. My sense is that he is either so out of touch with how a large number, if not the majority of US Catholics feel about these issues, or doesn’t care. That ultimately is sad.

  • Don:
    I get that you rebuff my suit on the basis of the intention of the FF*, but the original effort to found/constitute the USA isn’t the only instance of an act of constituting in the course of American political development. I believe that it is fair game to state that there have been other acts of constituting AKA re-constituting. I forward for your consideration, the Gettysburg Address in which Lincoln re-constituted America. I suspect that the New Deal would be an additional candidate as would Marbury vs. Madison, as would the 1913 founding of the Federal Reserve, or Johnson’s signing of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. I do not agree with what he is doing, quite the contrary, but it is upon this president that, rightly or wrongly, Obama draws.

    Cavet: I am not putting his actions in the same class as the above noble/ignoble events, and would suggest his reading of history is on par with his recent demonstrations of his understanding of Christian theology.

    *and your position of “proof in the pudding” numbers of Catholics on the ground. To paraphrase your position, “How could there be an anti-Catholic character to this great nation, when there are so many Catholics around?”

  • Correction:
    … it is upon this precedent…

  • “Our sense is that there is a distinct movement in the Church hierarchy to a “take or leave it” mentality as it relates to issues like abortion, birth control and homosexuality.”

    Your problem Stephen is with 2000 years of Church teaching on these issues. The Church since the time of Christ has consistently condemned abortion, birth control and homosexuality. This quotation from the Didache from the first century demonstrates the antiquity of the teaching on abortion and homosexual acts:

    “You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. You shall not covet the things of your neighbor, you shall not swear, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not speak evil, you shall bear no grudge. You shall not be double-minded nor double-tongued, for to be double-tongued is a snare of death. Your speech shall not be false, nor empty, but fulfilled by deed. You shall not be covetous, nor rapacious, nor a hypocrite, nor evil disposed, nor haughty. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You shall not hate any man; but some you shall reprove, and concerning some you shall pray, and some you shall love more than your own life.”
    The condemnation of birth control is of equal vintage. Your quarrel is not with the current bishops but with the clear teaching of the Church founded by Christ for the past two millenia.

  • “I forward for your consideration, the Gettysburg Address in which Lincoln re-constituted America.”

    Lincoln’s entire political career was spent upholding the Declaration of Independence.

    Here is my take on the Gettysburg address:

    http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/02/05/much-noted-and-long-remembered/

  • ” I suspect that the New Deal would be an additional candidate as would Marbury vs. Madison, as would the 1913 founding of the Federal Reserve, or Johnson’s signing of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.”
    Yes as to the New Deal. No as to Marbury as to judicial review as the courts in colonial America played that type of role in numerous cases citing the unwritten English constitution. No as to the Federal Reserve, crazy Glenn Beck notwithstanding. No as to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. American political history since the beginning has largely been a fight over the legacy of the Founding Fathers, and that fight continues today and is the true major issue in the 2012 Presidential election.

  • “To paraphrase your position, “How could there be an anti-Catholic character to this great nation, when there are so many Catholics around?””

    My position is that the Church has flourished where the government has left it alone. Church-State conflicts have been a constant theme in the history of the Church. American history, until very, very recently, largely avoided such conflicts, to the great benefit of the Church.

  • This may be opening up a huge can of worms and might be a topic for another thread, but I’ll tackle it anyway.

    Some conservative/libertarian types seem to push the idea that if you truly believe in conservative or federalist ideals, you have to view Lincoln as a villain who created the intrusive big federal government we know today, and the Civil War as an unjust War of Northern Aggression.

    Well, I don’t agree with either premise. But I am beginning to wonder if a situation might not eventually develop where some “red” states would secede in order to preserve something resembling a Judeo-Christian culture based on the rule of law against a tyrannical and aggressively secularist/atheistic federal government dominated by (ahem) Democrats. I’d almost rather it came to that, than to have Catholics or evangelicals forced to flee to South America or some remote, dirt poor Third World country in order to practice their faith. It would certainly be a lot easier to emigrate to Texas than to Chile or Argentina, right?

    My question is, it is possible, or logically sound, to believe that Lincoln did the right thing and the Southern states weren’t morally justified in seceding in 1860, yet also believe that secession MIGHT be morally justified in the 21st or 22nd century if things get really, really bad?

  • If there is any seceding to be done Elaine it will be by blue states. I intend to win this fight for the political future of this country, and I believe I am far from alone in that determination.

  • Don:
    Declaration of Independence is not a constitutional document. At the G. A. he reconstituted on the basis of the preamble of the DoI.

  • No, it is more important than the Constitution. The Declaration established the United States of America and what this nation stands for. The Constitution is merely the mechanism to carry forward the philosophy of govenment embodied in the Declaration.

  • “The Church since the time of Christ has consistently condemned abortion, birth control and homosexuality.”

    Actually, the Church has NOT condemned birth control per se, but contraception. Otherwise, even so-called NFP (which if used to avoid pregnancy is a form of birth control) would have to be likewise condemned by the Church. This is not by any means splitting hairs. Contraception acts against the meaning and purpose of the body regarding the reproductive system, whereas so-called NFP acts according the natural function of the reproductive system. That’s a major distinction. In fact, not understanding this distinction, which the “Church has condemned birth control” mistakenly implies, has contributed in no small part to the misunderstandings people have about the Church’s teaching and thus to its rejection of it.

  • Not to change the subject or anything, but did everyone notice how today’s Gospel reading is so relevant to our society’s normalization of sexual promiscuity, abortion and homosexuality with its concurrent ridicule and marginalization of Christianity?

    John 15:18-21

    Jesus said to his disciples:
    “If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first.
    If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own;
    but because you do not belong to the world,
    and I have chosen you out of the world,
    the world hates you.
    Remember the word I spoke to you,
    ‘No slave is greater than his master.’
    If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.
    If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.
    And they will do all these things to you on account of my name,
    because they do not know the one who sent me.”

  • “This is not by any means splitting hairs.”

    Oh there is nothing wrong about splitting hairs Greg, I make a decent living doing it. 🙂

    Pius XII was the first pope to give limited approval to abstinence during infertile periods in his allocution to midwives in 1951:

    “Here again we are faced with two hypotheses. If, one of the parties contracted marriage with the intention of limiting the matrimonial right itself to the periods of sterility, and not only its use, in such a manner that during the other days the other party would not even have the right to ask for the debt, than this would imply an essential defect in the marriage consent, which would result in the marriage being invalid, because the right deriving from the marriage contract is a permanent, uninterrupted and continuous right of husband and wife with respect to each other.

    However if the limitation of the act to the periods of natural sterility does not refer to the right itself but only to the use of the right, the validity of the marriage does not come up for discussion. Nonetheless, the moral lawfulness of such conduct of husband and wife should be affirmed or denied according as their intention to observe constantly those periods is or is not based on sufficiently morally sure motives. The mere fact that husband and wife do not offend the nature of the act and are even ready to accept and bring up the child, who, notwithstanding their precautions, might be born, would not be itself sufficient to guarantee the rectitude of their intention and the unobjectionable morality of their motives.

    The reason is that marriage obliges the partners to a state of life, which even as it confers certain rights so it also imposes the accomplishment of a positive work concerning the state itself. In such a case, the general principle may be applied that a positive action may be omitted if grave motives, independent of the good will of those who are obliged to perform it, show that its performance is inopportune, or prove that it may not be claimed with equal right by the petitioner—in this case, mankind.”

    Humane Vitae 16 broadened this approval:
    Recourse to Infertile Periods

    “16. Now as We noted earlier (no. 3), some people today raise the objection against this particular doctrine of the Church concerning the moral laws governing marriage, that human intelligence has both the right and responsibility to control those forces of irrational nature which come within its ambit and to direct them toward ends beneficial to man. Others ask on the same point whether it is not reasonable in so many cases to use artificial birth control if by so doing the harmony and peace of a family are better served and more suitable conditions are provided for the education of children already born. To this question We must give a clear reply. The Church is the first to praise and commend the application of human intelligence to an activity in which a rational creature such as man is so closely associated with his Creator. But she affirms that this must be done within the limits of the order of reality established by God.

    If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained. (20)

    Neither the Church nor her doctrine is inconsistent when she considers it lawful for married people to take advantage of the infertile period but condemns as always unlawful the use of means which directly prevent conception, even when the reasons given for the later practice may appear to be upright and serious. In reality, these two cases are completely different. In the former the married couple rightly use a faculty provided them by nature. In the later they obstruct the natural development of the generative process. It cannot be denied that in each case the married couple, for acceptable reasons, are both perfectly clear in their intention to avoid children and wish to make sure that none will result. But it is equally true that it is exclusively in the former case that husband and wife are ready to abstain from intercourse during the fertile period as often as for reasonable motives the birth of another child is not desirable. And when the infertile period recurs, they use their married intimacy to express their mutual love and safeguard their fidelity toward one another. In doing this they certainly give proof of a true and authentic love.”

  • “The USCBB has been uneven, if not totally hypocritical in its use of a false “religious liberty” argument with respect to PPACA regulations relating to access to birth control.”

    Yes, because it’s so painfully difficult to get ahold of contraceptives these days.

    One has to go as far as one’s local gas station, and that’s such an injustice.

  • Don:

    Do you know what they call a lawyer with a .0000001 IQ?

    Your honor.

  • The 1951 allocution to Midwives was also a veiled slap at theologians who were basically equating NFP with contraception. Founding father of the present day pro-life movement the late Fr. Paul Marx put it this way:

    “In 1951, Pope Pius XII twice addressed the subject of natural fertility control. In his first address (to midwives) he said, ‘There are serious motives…that can exempt for a long time, perhaps even the duration of marriage, from the positive and obligatory carrying out of the act. From this it follows that observing the non-fertile periods alone can be lawful only under a moral aspect.’ (Address to Midwives, 29 October 1951, n. 36). He studiously refused to use the term ‘birth control,’ which implies that babies are a kind of a product to be manufactured through the whim and will of the individual couple. In that first address, Pius XII showed himself quite aware of what had developed and was still developing in the field of NFP. He therefore admonished the midwives to base their advice not on popular publications but on scientific objectivity and the authoritative judgment of specialists in medicine and biology (n.30).

    Note that he recognized the possibility that some couples would find themselves in such a difficult situation that they could legitimately avoid all births; they would place their sexual relations in the infertile phase of the cycle exclusively. The rule that couples consult a priest before practicing NFP was the unfortunate invention of theologians, not of Pope or Church. This Pope once told a confidant that he would give his right arm if he could solve the problem of regulating births.

    I recall theologians of that era who thought that the conservative Pius XII had become rather liberal about the control of fertility through use of only the infertile phase of the cycle. Apparently their opinion was reported to him Less than a month later, 26 November 1951, he spoke as follows to the Congress of the Family Front. He did not hesitate to affirm a wide latitude in the legitimacy of regulating births by using the infertile times only: ‘ Therefore, in our last allocution on conjugal morality, we affirmed the legitimacy and at the same time, the limits–in truth very wide–of a regulation of offspring, which is unlike so-called ‘birth control’ is compatible with the law of God’ (n.21)” (Faithful for Life pp 101-102)

  • “The USCBB has been uneven, if not totally hypocritical in its use of a false “religious liberty” argument with respect to PPACA regulations relating to access to birth control.”

    Stephen,

    Perhaps in the spirit of dialogue you can explain why arguing from religious liberty is hypocritical. You cite the theological commission’s recommendations to Paul VI to allow birth control. But such commissions’ recommendations are not Magisterial pronouncements. Such pronouncments are the Pope’s and those bishops in union with him. A minor analogy would be Obama and his debt commission. The commission made recommendations to cut the deficit. Obama did nothing with these recommendations even though he set up the commission. Again not a precise analogy but, just because there is a commission, does not mean the recommendations need to be followed by those with the ultimate authority.

    “It is the liberal perspective that the Church lives and thrives when it engages in constructive dialogue with all parties and evolves in its teachings that are not core to the faith. Revealed Gospels say little if not anything authoritative about marriage, birth control, abortion and homosexuality once you read the texts and understand the context. From my personal perspective, it’s the lack of textual literacy, bad interpretations and lack of constructive dialogue within the Church itself that leads to our current divisions.”

    Please take this in the spirit of dialogue. The Gospels say little about many things. They say nothing about welfare being provided by the state. Does this mean it shouldn’t be done? Of course not. Jesus said precious little about many things. That’s why he gave us the Church to continue His mission in the world. This includes, as noted above, the Pope and bishiops in union with him teaching on morals and Faith. This is their charism given to them from God. A charism which theologians do not share in the same way. So, going back to your argument about the Pontifical Commission, no number of commissions will have an authority that the Pope has.

    And Revelation is not limited to the Gospels. It includes the whole of the Bible and the Churches Tradition. So for a little of the Bible see here:

    http://blog.adw.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Biblical-Teaching-on-Homosexual-Activity.pdf

  • “It is the liberal perspective that the Church lives and thrives when it engages in constructive dialogue with all parties and evolves in its teachings that are not core to the faith.”

    /gas station snark off

    That sounds nice, almost persuasive even, but quickly gets shoaled by vagueness. Starting with the insurmountable obstacle that there is no agreement as to what is “core to the faith.”

    Roger Haight, after all, argues that an empty tomb is not “core to the faith.” With one honorable exception, the liberals I read defended the poor confused apostate tooth and nail.

    Without agreement as to the core (and the liberal understanding is that this is a much smaller sphere than those to their “right”), “dialogue” is an exercise in dumbshow.

  • Liberals have no use for the Truth except to subvert it to serve the vile agenda.

    The Truth is not susceptible to dialogue or debate; nor to whining and gnashing of teeth.

    Plato: “Opinion is not Truth.”

  • Maryland has a Catholic name but is filled with protestants so most people pronounce it “Ma-riland”. In comparison with it’s neighbor Delaware where at least in Newcastle county lots of people are baptized Catholics but there are also a lot of Heretics like Mike Castle and Vice President Joe Biden, And if you live in Newark lots of College professors.

  • T Shaw has a point people should have their opinion tailored to the truth.

  • “He who is not with me, is against me.” Jesus Christ, Luke 11:23. Simple as that.

  • I totally agree with His Eminence but would adjust it to anti-Christian and anti-Jewish and Moslem (except for the Christians and Jews who have let today’s un-Natural Law views contradict their official Bibles which endorse the Natural Law that is imprinted in our Nature)

The White House Hopes For Schism

Saturday, March 3, AD 2012

Timothy Cardinal Dolan of the Archdiocese of New York has been a leader in the fight against the HHS Mandate.  Below is an update that he gave on the current status of that battle this week.  His remarks are fascinating on several grounds.  Here are a few observations:

1.  Schism.  The Cardinal believes that the White House is attempting to take advantage of a de facto schism in the Church in America and render the opposition of the Bishops harmless.  “Instead, they advised the bishops’ conference that we should listen to the “enlightened” voices of accommodation, such as the recent hardly-surprising but terribly unfortunate editorial in America.  The White House seems to think we bishops are hopelessly out of touch with our people, and with those whom the White House now has nominated as official Catholic teachers.”  Some of us have of course seen this coming for a very long time, symbolized by the Obama day of worship at Notre Dame’s commencement in 2009.  The Obama administration hopes to create their own de facto version of a “Patriotic Catholic Association” here in the US, completely subservient to the administration.

2. Religious Liberty.  The Cardinal understands the gravity of this attack on religious liberty.  And it is not just about sterilization, abortifacients, and chemical contraception.  Pure and simple, it’s about religious freedom, the sacred right, protected by our constitution, of any Church to define its own teaching and ministry.  This of course is all about Obama’s goal of making the Catholic Church in this country harmless to his ambitions, ambitions I am beginning to fear even his most ardent opponents do not truly comprehend yet.

3.   Shocked, Shocked.  Obama’s word is meaningless.  When the President announced on January 20th that the choking mandates from HHS would remain — a shock to me, since he had personally assured me that he would do nothing to impede the good work of the Church in health care, education, and charity, and that he considered the protection of conscience a sacred duty — not only you, but men and women of every faith, or none at all, rallied in protest.   Frankly I am shocked that the Cardinal was shocked, but better wise late than never.

4.  Litigation–  The Cardinal believes that the HHS Mandate can be beaten in the courts.  And the courts offer the most light.  In the recent Hosanna-Tabor ruling, the Supreme Court unanimously and enthusiastically defended the right of a Church to define its own ministry and services, a dramatic rebuff to the administration, but one apparently unheeded by the White House.  Thus, our bishops’ conference and many individual religious entities are working with some top-notch law firms who have told us they feel so strongly about this that they will represent us pro-bonoThis of course underlines one of the many reasons it is essential to defeat Obama in November.  Another four years would give him probably at least two more supreme court appointments and hundreds of lower federal court appointments.

The Bishops I think, at least the vast majority of them, are now awake to the danger posed to the Catholic Church by the Obama administration.  It is therefore a great pity that too many of them, and their predecessors, over the years, allowed underlings in the Church bureaucracy to continue to have the Catholic Church in this country act as the Democrat party at prayer, and thereby helped foster an attitude of casual indifference, or active approval, as that party embraced position after position directly contrary to Catholic teaching and thus lull most Catholics into the belief that none of this was important when it came to them casting their ballot.  The canonization   funeral Mass given to Teddy Kennedy was a prime example that members of the hierarchy in this country shared fully in this attitude.  These ecclesiastics have sown the wind and now we are all reaping the whirlwind.

Here is the statement of the Cardinal:

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39 Responses to The White House Hopes For Schism

  • Apropos from John Hinderacker: “Have we ever had an administration like Barack Obama’s? An administration that tries to benefit from pitting Americans against one another? An administration that uses its billion-dollar slush fund, not to mention the resources of the Executive Branch, to demonize private citizens who disagree with its policies? An administration that uses hate as an instrument of domestic politics? I don’t believe that there is any precedent in American history for the mean-spiritedness that now emanates from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.”

  • This is all well and good, but the Cardinal only in passing touched upon an important point. Religious freedom belongs not only to institutions, but even more so to individuals. Why should an individual be subjected to abrogation of his rights any more than an institution?

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  • Yeah cmatt. They mention it along with others but only about 50% of the time. They need to make these into bullet points, internalize them, and always present them in their entirety.

  • Such a cool role model.
    Conducting a discordant orchestra.
    Mean-spiritedness down to a science.
    Kids are shooting kids. Bullying prevails over education scene.
    People speechless from confusion and fear.
    National identity crisis.
    Systematic disintegration, John Hinderacker has it.
    1. Pitting Americans against one another.
    2. $lush, Executive Branch limitle$$ budget demonizing citizens = jobs created.
    3. Hate & buzzwords to carry out agenda .
    Victims: Infants, children, elderly, working citizens, business owners, churches, and integrity.

  • a shock to me, since he had personally assured me that he would do nothing…..

    I really, really respect Cardinal Dolan. Both his office and from everything I have seen in interviews he appears like the kind of person you could sit and have a beer with (or club soda) and just talk about life.

    However, this is the second time he has been shocked and hoodwinked by politicians. The first was during the gay marriage debacle in NY when he was assured by certain people (whoever they were) that it wouldn’t go anywhere.

    In fairness without trying not to Monday morning quarterback, it seems like he needs to stop giving the benefit of the doubt these politicians and their operatives.

    Maybe a good rule of thumb is if you are dealing with a politician who thinks abortion, gay marriage and every other immoral activity is okay (for example Obama or Cumo) they shouldn’t be completely trusted at their word. Maybe irrespective of what they tell him, he should forge ahead regardless.

    We Catholics need a hero; we need someone we can rally behind to fight the good fight. I for one will offer my rosary tonight for the good Cardinal.

  • Amen to Cardinal Dolan, but in truth, I (an 84 year old woman with limited education) knew this was coming and cannot figure out how or why the Bishops, et al didn’t. It was so obvious. When Obama was running for the Presidency, you could see right through the hypocrisy and it just blew me away to think that Catholics were so Gung Ho to elect him, even our pastor. We sow what we reap. If he is re-elected – it’s all over.
    Our Saving Grace is in the Lord.

  • St. Mark 3:25

    “And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.”

    Read it all. Here Pharisees allege that Jesus is Beelzebub and so commands demons. Jesus teaches that there are eternal sins, i.e., sins that cannot be forgiven. These are sins against the Holy Spirit. Democrats constantly sin against the Holy Spirit.

    Social justice ever is used to rationalize eternal sin.

    Romans 14:8

    “For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; or whether we die, we die unto the Lord. Therefore, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.” Amen.

  • For whether we live free, we live freely unto the Lord; or whether we live in chains, we live freely in the Lord.

    Nero did not prevail over the Holy Spirit nor will Obama nor any earthly power or prince.

  • Sovereign immunity is that shield from the state’s penetrating into one’s immortal soul and taking God-given freedom from a person, sucking the marrow from his constitutional bones. The Catholic Church has been compliant with rules and regulations to help the state, such as incorporating as a non-profit or as a religious institution. This is in good will. The Church does not need to do this. The state cannot, in reality, give the Church a tax-exemption, because the state cannot tax the Church. Therefore, an exemption implies that the state may tax the Church, but is being a nice guy about generosity. Well, generosity is a virtue, a God-given virtue and the practice of religion by the state in rendering the virtue of charity through the God-given virtue of generosity to the Church. And God is left laughing.
    Sovereign immunity, like diplomatic immunity, defines the realm of the Catholic Church as being autonomous in its existence through the Catholic Church’s institution by Jesus Christ, of the Catholic Church’s creation by God, of which the state has had and may have no part.
    In redefining freedom, the state has dissolved the very foundations of its existence as constituted by the sovereign persons who have constituted the state. In violating the will of the people, the state has failed to be the state. In violating the will of God for His Catholic Church and for the people of God, the state has incited the wrath of God.
    Back to the future in the catacombs.
    As President, Bill Clinton wrote an executive order making all free lands and waters the privilege of the president. As President, Obama wrote executive order 13575 Rural Councils, making all private land the object of eminent domain, to be taken at will from all persons, but not FOR all persons, as eminent domain requires. The LOST treaty, not ratified by Congress (only Congress ratifies treaties) signed by Hillary Clinton, secretary of State with the United Nations, an atheistic entity without sovereign authority or immunity since only God gives sovereignty through the immortal soul of man, privatizes all the oceans and seas and the mineral rights under the seas to the United Nations. American citizens will now have to pay to sail the seas. The reason this is of utmost importance, is that now, when Obama nationalizes the Catholic Church and her property, there is nowhere to say Mass. Once upon a time, in Ireland, Mass was said in a goat drawn cart hauled onto the land exposed by the receding tide. This riprarian land was no man’s land. The exiled Catholic Church Mass was free to be said on this land which belonged to God. Obama has usurped what belongs to God and redefined God’s property as his own. There is nowhere for the Catholic Mass to be said, once Obama nationalizes all church property, except the catacombs, once again.

  • “Have we ever had an administration like Barack Obama’s? An administration that tries to benefit from pitting Americans against one another?”

    Actually, we have. The president in question was James Buchanan (1857-1861), who supported the Fugitive Slave Act and the Dred Scott Decision, and who did nothing to stop the bleeding in Bleeding Kansas. In fact he encouraged it by supporting the pro-slavery Lecompton Constitution that would have made Kansas a slave state. It was during his administration that Abraham Lincoln directly quoted Christ’s words about the “house divided against itself.”

  • Excellent comment by Quinlan and Voe they get it. If Obana is elected another 4 years we could very well have to go underground as a Roman Catholic Church similar to China. When I was in grade school over 40+ years ago a nun prophetically told our class that one day we will be persecuted for our faith in this country as was the case in China. I believe by this mandate the wheels have been set in motion.

  • One positive development: if this had all happened twenty years ago, would they have even fought back?

  • Quinlan –
    different baseline assumptions.
    I’m guessing you’re more to the right or libertarian side of an important world-view line– have the idea that people can and should help themselves as much as possible, and are aware that giving lots of power is like giving a psycho a knife, it can be used for good or bad.
    The Bishop– as one might guess from the way he’s a Bishop– has had a lot of exposure to the good that organizations can do, and is probably constantly running up against the “what we could fix if we had the power” situation.

    It’s hard for me to empathize with it, because my worldview is so different– lower middle class, enlisted, rural, deal with people of a wide range of motivations, and for some reason people keep mistaking me for a mouse instead of a shrew (to steal my mom’s line), so I get to see how people behave with the power they have when they don’t think they’ll be called on it, as well as seeing the on-the-ground effects of some stuff that sounds very noble. (Who could be against protecting, say, bald eagles? People who stand to lose their life’s work if some idiot sees the eagles and reports it. To make it worse, the “protection” tends to have the opposite effect if someone DOESN’T shoot, shovel and shut up.{disclaimer: I have no names of individuals who have so violated the endangered species act– it’s common knowledge that it’s done})

    I’d guess that even among politicians, there are a lot of folks who’d hesitate to lie to a priest’s face.

  • Your Eminence,

    You hold the cards – God, and parishes scattered throughout the country, and your right to speak freely from the pulpit on anything attacking the Church. You also have the right to hold Voter Registration drives after every week-end Mass giving the opportunity of the faithful to be sure they are registered to vote in this very upcoming election that will have such a major impact on the future of religious freedom in America. Words, alone, won’t change anything – actions will; that is why voter registration after the Masses is your best arrow in your arsenal in defending freedom of religion and the practice thereof. Registration drives also allow people to change their registration – and how one is registered to vote is the Holy Grail of politics.

  • Policies are negotiable-Principles are not negotiable! We support Catholic teachings!

  • I have all due respect for Cardinal Dolan, but there has been a schism in the Church for a very long time. The left leaning/ Democrat loving Bishops/ Priests have been undermining the Church as long as I can remember. I hate to say it but a lot of this mess has been the results of the Bishops and Priests not doing what they should have been doing….teaching the beliefs of the Catholic Church especially on moral issues. Instead they have largely ignored what the Church actually believes on contraception ( Humanae Vitae), sterilization, abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage. They allowed these things to be taught in schools, seminaries and still allow speakers and politicians who go against our beliefs in Catholic Schools/Colleges. What are they going to do now with “catholic” politicians who continue to go against the Church? There were 13 “catholic” Democrats who just voted against the Blunt amendment to protect religious liberty against the HHS mandate. Anyone looking into Obama’s past should have known his true beliefs and intentions. I’ll be praying for our Bishops, Priests and the USA….we’re going to need a lot of prayer!

  • This is why I love Newt, stuff like this. Newt at his best, wish I could wrap up Newt and Santorum together! I have not heard this articulated so well.

    Newt owns David Gregory on contraception debate

    http://www.therightscoop.com/newt-owns-david-gregory-on-contraception/

  • GHU

    I concur with everything you wrote, but now we need to do more than “just” pray – we’ve been doing that for decades and things have gotten worse. That is because actions were not implemented to go along with our faith. Now, not only is the Church under attack by this pro-abortion, pro-infanticide Democrat Administration, our country is at risk of being lost as well. We can turn this all around this November and eliminate the threat to Religious Liberty and to freedom in America if we will get active in registering people to vote at church. That action coupled with prayers in EVERY Mass for the overturn of Obama’s Health and Human Services’ order to take effect this August 1st, (just like we used to pray for the conversion of Russia) will be a major step towards recovering our country in our precious Constitutional Rights. As Catholics’ go, so goes the country. If there was EVER a reason why Catholics should remove their name identification from the Democrat Party, and stop voting for them, this IS the time. Catholics don’t HAVE to become Republicans, just register out of the Democrat Party in protest of their war, not only on the unborn, but NOW on the missions of the Church while dismantling the Constitution in the process. The should register as Independents or Decline to State. In many states, now, such Voter ID allows one to vote in any Primary Election as is evident in the “Republican” Primaries going on now.

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  • I believe it was H. L. Mencken who stated the Catholic bishops were the Democrat Party at prayer.

    The bishops, past and present, have been so far off the mark in dealing with a Democrat Party whose platforms, aims and goals have been so anti-Catholic. The USCCB has been blind as a bat in realizing who and what the Democrat Party is all about. The FDR New Deal died in Chicago in 1968.

    it is not just about abortion. The USCCB pays lip service to school choice. Yet, do we really have school choice in the USA? No.

    Look at the states that have enacted homosexual marriage. Certain of them, namely New York, usually are at the top of the highest number of abortions. Massachusetts, New York, Rhode Island, Maryland and Illinois have a large number of so-called Catholics, but the politicians those states elect, be they “Catholic” or not, do not reflect Catholic teaching on just about anything.

    Catholic education stunk in the 1970s when I was in Catholic school. Catholic higher education is, in most universities that call themselves Catholic, is anything but Catholic. The nuns who broke with the USCCB and supported Obamacare are another example.

    And yet, only bishop Bruskewitz and then Archbishop Burke were the only Catholic bishops who would stand up to abortion supporters. Cardinal Wuerl has gone out of his way NOT to confront such politicians. Look at the example of the poor priest from Montgomery County who did not give Communion to the lesbian at her mother’s funeral. Wuerl used to be my bishop. He approved of Teresa Heinz’ golddigging husband, John FARC Kerry (the FARC comes from Kerry’s lipservice making excuses for the Marxist narcoterrorist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia – my wife is from Colombia and saw them commit murder).

    To top it off, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers, my favorite team, daily communicant Dan Rooney (I used to see him at Daily Mass at St. Mary of Mercy in Pittsburgh) supported the Abortionist In Chief. I suspect his father would have let him have it.

    I’ll be damned if I let some Marxist nitwit with the intelligence of a soap dish like Barack Obumbler and his minions make me rot in a prison cell for my faith or for any other reason. I’ll send my family to Colombia. There is a lot to fear in Colombia – drug traffickers, violent criminals, the FARC, the ELN, paramilitaries – but not the Colombian government.

  • “However, this is the second time he has been shocked and hoodwinked by politicians.”

    I love Dolan, but that statement is true. However, I blame him more for being hoodwinked by NY politicians – why would anybody expect NY politicians to be honest? Yes, Obama is a politician, but he is also the President of the United States. I can understand how a clergyman would believe that the President of the United States would not lie to his face.

  • Many years ago, a good friend pointed out to me that priests and bishops really do live in a very sheltered world, and don’t understand how bad things are for us laity in the trenches. I thought it was an interesting insight, and a good way to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I really couldn’t understand how that could be.
    Then, recently, I was talking to a new friend who’s a convert, a little younger than my father, and comes from a very conservative Presbyterian background. He, too, said that the thinks priests are kind of sheltered and don’t understand how bad our culture is.
    Then, a couple weeks ago, my Carmelite community had our annual retreat. The Carmelite priest who came down to give the retreat was talking about teaching a class a few years ago, where one of his students protested that he doesn’t think we’re right about God and free will, that he doesn’t think it can be free will if God punishes you for not making a certain choice. The priest was shocked at what the student said. Another student tried to explain to him that this is the attitude most people in our society have, and how this is what this young man had been taught in his entire education. The priest was surprised.

    So, yes, I learned, many older priests really *are* that naive.

  • John,

    Priests are sheltered in many ways. I remember the priest at one parish I was at. He had recently retired and was living for the first time in his life in an apartment. Prior to this had lived at home, seminary or rectories. He commented that it was the first time he had paid a bill. The first time. Before this he had others who had handled the accounts. Now he knew the actual cost of things. This after he retired. And he had be talking all through the years about the economy when he didn’t even know what the monthly cost of phone service or utilities were.

  • Now he knew the actual cost of things. This after he retired. And he had be talking all through the years about the economy when he didn’t even know what the monthly cost of phone service or utilities were.

    Where was this man ever posted? I am quite sure that in all the parishes I have ever been associated with, the priest/administrator was intimately familiar with the parish accounts.

  • His words Art, not mine. I am quite sure about them. If you have doubts, address it with him.

    Though familiarity is a tough concept. Another example, the pastor of another parish was “familiar” with the shaky finances. His parish finance committee constantly informed him of them. Of course one day he went out and bought a house across the street to be the parish for a youth center. Dropped the bomb on the parish finance committee that was then in a scramble to figure out how to find money .

  • After a night of thought, I realized I’ve done something much like Cardinal Dolan on a small level: online game guilds have twice royally betrayed my husband and me. Each time taught us things to look out for the next time we join up, but didn’t mean we expect EVERY member of an organization to act like the bad ones from before.

  • Yes I think there is already and has been such a schism, and that is becoming more pronounced. Rick Santorum and Obama are making the schism more visible and definite….a clear contrast. At Catholic study group yesterday we came to this conclusion: (1 Timothy 4:1 2) …”proclaim the word; be persistent whether it is convenient or inconvenient; convince, reprimand, encourage through all patience and teaching.”

  • What strikes me is that nobody seems to be pointing out the obvious: that each and every turn for the worse is coming from The Father of Lies. The Deceiver and Enemy is firmly entrenched in the Peoples’ Democratic Party leadership, including President Caiaphas, and has hoodwinked a good portion of what used to be God’s Own Party.

    He who has deceived Eve, Adam and everybody else in history except Jesus Himself has not only gotten stronger in past decades but enlisted multitudes of useful idiots to do his work for him without even knowing it. So-called “freedoms” that are nothing more than license and anarchy have been used as reasons to gut the most powerful and God-fearing political document ever written, and the singular goal is the elimination of God from our society so as to erect a Humanist-fascist worldwide dictatorship.

    When it is realized that the endgame is to set up a single, Satanic government controlling the globe, then it is also to realize just where in history we stand. It may well be generations away, but as the old saying goes, “A journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step.”

    The first step was taken some time ago; whether it’s too late to turn back remains to be seen.

  • If there exists a schism, and the liberal faction disobeys the bishops, it won’t because the church wanted it. However if some weak Catholics go that way; they ought to be handled as the church handles schismatic heretics, and excommunicated publicly by the church. In the long run a rotten apple kept in the barrel of apples spoils all and the good ones need to be protected and saved and not corrupted by the rotten ones.

  • John Hinderaker: “Barack Obama has been a terrible president in many ways, but perhaps his most poisonous legacy is his cynical fomenting of partisan hate to advance his own political interests. After three years, we have learned that ‘hope’ is not the word that we should associate with the Obama presidency.”

  • Hate and Chains!

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  • As an aside, the communist Chinese are seeking out (and praising) the empress of the Episcopalian denomination, aka their Presiding Bishop, Katharine Jefferts-Schori. Jefferts-Schori is an ex-Catholic who misses no opportunity to trash the Catholic Church.

    If schism is indeed brought to fruition in the US, a faux ‘Episcopal’ hierarchy and liturgy are already in place for an “American Catholic church” with which to link up. Just saying.

    http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2012/03/14/rise-in-christians-has-chinas-churches-government-looking-for-help/