Let the Kilted Socialists Go

Tuesday, March 14, AD 2017



The Scottish First Minister is calling for another vote on Independence, because Brexit.  Why it seems only three years ago, because it was, that the cause of Independence was rejected by the Scottish voters.  The Scots dodged a bullet that time.  This time I hope the English dodge a bullet, and the Scots march off playing Scotland the Brave.  As in 2014, here are my reasons for supporting Scottish independence:

Well, the Scottish independence referendum is up for a vote on September 18.  I suspect that if the referendum supports independence that such a move will be an economic disaster for Scotland, combined with a socialist government whose economic forecasts seem to owe just as much to Groucho, Harpo and Chico as they do Karl.  Having said that I am all in favor of Scottish independence.  Why?

Depriving Labour of 63 Scottish MPs would probably ensure Tory government in England for the foreseeable future and that would be good for the US both in foreign policy and trade.

Socialists are completely dominant in Scotland and probably will be until they have total power to cause the type of disasters that socialists routinely bring about when they govern unchecked.

Scotland has bred since World War II generations who believe that a socialist utopia can exist in Scotland if it were not for malevolent forces south of the border preventing the building of paradise.  They view Mel Gibson’s Braveheart flick as a documentary. Time to put this myth to a test.  Vote Yes for Scottish independence if you have the misfortune to currently reside in the land of some of my ancestors.

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7 Responses to Let the Kilted Socialists Go

  • Almost exactly the same reasoning supports the desire of California to secede, and, like the Scots, I hope they do it.

  • The Scottish National Party is better described as ‘Peronist’ rather than socialist. Scotland’s total population, output, and key city are of dimensions adequate to the formation of a fully sovereign nation-state. Separating from the UK would likely have some frictional costs. Economic trouble would derive from bad policy, not from separation per se.

    Particularist sentiment one can understand. The Scots Natoinalist variant bellyaches about Westminster but is avid about Brussels, so it has the property of being completely unserious. If my own exchanges with Scots Nationalists are representative of the breed, the whole mess is derived from a mixture of vanity and spite. The rest of the UK may at this juncture be pleased to be free of Scotland in order to substantially reduce the population of jerks in the kingdom.

  • .
    “Depriving Labour of 63 Scottish MPs”

    The SNP managed that quite well on its own. After the 2015 general election, when the number of Scottish seats had been reduced to 59, the results, on the first past the post system were

    Conservative & Unionist 1
    Labour 1
    Liberal Democrats 1
    SNP 56

    At the 2016 elections for the Scottish Parliament, on a system of proportional representation, the results were

    Conservative & Unionist 31
    Labour 24
    Liberal Democrats 5
    Scottish Greens 6
    SNP 63

    making the Conservative & Unionist party the 2nd largest party at Holyrood.

  • I view Scottish Labour and the SNP as virtually indistinguishable except on the key issue of Scottish Independence. If SNP seats would make the difference after a general election I think they would form a coalition government with Labour. I make no prediction as to how stable or long lived such a coalition would prove.

  • Donald R McClarey wrote, “I view Scottish Labour and the SNP as virtually indistinguishable…”
    Oh! Please.
    The cloth cap and the working class
    As images are dated.
    Now that Labour’s gone avant-garde
    Is highly educated
    By tax adjustments, they have planned
    To institute the promised land.
    And just show that they’re still sincere,
    We sing the Red Flag once a year.
    Firm principles and policies
    Are open to objections,
    And a streamlined party image is
    The way to win elections.
    So raise the neat umbrellas high,
    The mobile phone and college tie.
    We stand united, raise a cheer
    And sing the Red Flag once a year.

  • Labour and SNP MPS seem to be in a competition to which can be more socialist than thou for the besotted Scottish electorate. To the extent that some of their party hacks do not believe the economic rubbish they preach, I applaud them for their sanity and condemn them for their mendacity.

  • We stand united, raise a cheer
    And sing the Red Flag once a year.

    The party membership stuck Jeremy Corbyn in the leadership chair. In more than 30 years in the House of Commons, no Labour Party leader has seen fit to entrust him with any responsibility at all. His occupation prior to entering politics was a slot on the staff of some trade union (which did not include anything challenging like handling member grievances). He’s also a slacker. Since 1935, British Labour leaders have generally not grown up in the wage-earner stratum (Neil Kinnock and James Callaghan the exceptions), but Corbyn is nearly unique for having an haut bourgeois upbrininging, a pair of brothers who are extensively educated, and no tertiary schooling himself (due to wretched examination results in late adolescence). He’s also an anti-semite of the contemporary sort. So, having unexpectedly lost an election, the Labour membership’s brilliant idea is to put their party under the direction of a red haze lunkhead who has never in his life had work with robust operational measures of competence.

United Kingdom Still United

Friday, September 19, AD 2014


Groundskeeper Willie Weeping

Supporters of Scottish Independence came up short of their goal in the vote yesterday:

Scotland spurned independence in a historic referendum that threatened to rip the United Kingdom apart, sow financial turmoil and diminish Britain’s remaining global clout.

A vote for the 307-year union is a relief for millions of Britons including Prime Minister David Cameron, whose job was on the line, as well as allies across the world who were horrified at the prospect of the United Kingdom’s separation.

Unionists won 55 percent of the vote while separatists won 45 percent with 31 of 32 constituencies declared.

Political leaders of all hues agreed that Britain would be changed for good nonetheless.

Unionists cheered, kissed and drank wine and beer in Glasgow, Scotland’s biggest city where secessionists won, while nationalist leader Alex Salmond conceded defeat in Edinburgh, which supported the United Kingdom.

“Scotland has by a majority decided not, at this stage, to become an independent country. I accept that verdict of the people and I call on all of Scotland to follow suit in accepting the democratic verdict of the people of Scotland,” Salmond said.

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26 Responses to United Kingdom Still United

  • The result does not surprise me, nor am I particularly disappointed.
    The debate was never really about nationalism (whatever that means in a Scottish context); it was about self-government and local democracy. Most Scots want to see more of the decisions that affect Scotland taken in Scotland; not only that, but they want more of those decisions taken locally, rather than in either Westminster or Edinburgh..
    It is very striking that the area most opposed to independence was Orkney, with 67% voting “No,” closely followed by Shetland with 63%. They have no more wish to be ruled by the Central Belt than by Westminster. Dumfries & Galloway in the Borders on 66% tell the same story.
    Greater devolution from Westminster to Edinburgh, coupled with greater devolution from Edinburgh to the local councils will satisfy the aspirations of most Scots and, if that is what emerges from the referendum debate, it will be no bad thing.
    Those of us who support EU membership may see Westminster as a fifth wheel and support a “Europe of the regions,” but that is another story.

  • Hmmm . . . devolution of political power away from a remote centralized authority, giving greater franchise and decision-making capacity to states and municipalities. What a great concept! Maybe we should try it here in the States!
    Nah. It’d never work.

  • it was about self-government and local democracy. Most Scots want to see more of the decisions that affect Scotland taken in Scotland; not only that, but they want more of those decisions taken locally, rather than in either Westminster or Edinburgh.

    You’re going to need all your skills as a barrister to reconcile that assessment with the following: (1) Salmond proposed to remain in the EU and had no plans for withdrawing from the Council of Europe and the officious tribunals and commissions associated with it and (2) Salmond proposed to retain Sterling as the currency. (The possible explanation for the latter would be that proposing a new currency ‘ere you were ready to impose it would induce a run on Scottish banks) and (3) the official line of the Scottish National Party is to despise UKIP.

  • I think it basically boiled down to most folks favored security over uncertainty, no matter how attractive opportunity/independence may seem in the abstract.

  • Oh and Celtic got a decent away result in Austria! 🙂

  • Art Deco,

    Reliable estimates put the hard core Nationalist vote – those who demand nothing short of separation – at about 30%. The Nationalist victory in the 2011 elections to the Scottish parliament included a considerable number of voters disenchanted with Labour and, indeed, the Westminster parties. I do not believe this has changed significantly.

    One suspects that not a few “Yes” voters have no great love for the SNP, often sneeringly referred to as the “Tartan Tories,” but simply did not trust Westminster to deliver Devo Max (still a somewhat vague concept). Following independence, the SNP might well have seen a lot of its support evaporating. Likewise, it would not surprise me if not a few “No” voters go on to support the SNP in local and parliamentary elections, precisely because they are seen as the only party not controlled by the Westminster establishment.

    Finally, the EU is much more popular across all shades of opinion in Scotland than in England, especially the Social Chapter and Regional Development Grants. Ironically, if there is a referendum on EU membership in 2017, it could well be Scottish votes that tip the balance in keeping the UK in the EU. As for the currency, it was long SNP policy to join the Euro, until that was overtaken by events in 2008. UKIP is widely dismissed as simply the breakaway Thatcherite wing of the Tory party.

  • MPS, when I said you were going to need your skills as a barrister, I meant make an actual argument which reconciles those viewpoints, not give a laundry list of all the arbitrary opinions adhered to by Scottish voters and politicians.

  • Whew! Now, the UK doesn’t need to relocate its nucular weapons sites!

    High-fives all around.

  • Subsidiarity – Yesterday, Today and Forever.

  • “One suspects that not a few “Yes” voters have no great love for the SNP, often sneeringly referred to as the “Tartan Tories,””

    Scottish nationalists were originally conservatives until they learned that nationalism could be sold if alloyed with the infantile leftism so popular among a majority of the Scottish electorate. Anyone who views the SNP as in any shape conservative now is delusional.

  • From what I gather, both major parties in Scotland are quite to the left. Perhaps attachment to England is actually a moderating influence. And is Ireland any better?

  • Art Deco wrote:

    “Salmond proposed to remain in the EU…”

    Aye “independence in Europe” is almost as oxymoronic as “civic nationalism”! 🙂

    the results came in from the “SNP heartlands” in the North East

  • Donald R McClarey writes:

    “Tartan Tories”.

    It is a long time since that jibe carried any weight Maister McC. Informed opinion is that the last of them died out years ago. I myself was of that opinion.

    That said…

    You are aware I take it that, Dundee excepted, the Nationalists did surprisingly badly in what conventional opinion considers their “electoral strongholds” in the North East? Salmond couldnae even win a majority in his own Scottish parliamentary constituency! 🙂 Do not misunderstand. There are actually very significant numbers of Conservative voters in Scotland. But in the normal run of Westminster, Edinburgh and even local elections they stay at home because the Westminster first past the post and that particular form of PR used in the Scottish parliamentary electoral systems serve them very badly. They are so dispersed across the country that for many it was not worth while making the effort to vote. The referendum represented their first chance in a generation to have their vote count. But even taking this factor into account the Nationalists poor showing in their “strongholds” is still puzzling. Unless there has for over a generation been a significant part of their support that isn’t actually secessionist. Informed opinion was most certainly aware that their more recent electoral gains were of the “soft” variety but I suspect that their core vote was also much softer than any of us thought…?

  • Apologies to Michael Paterson-Seymour and Donald R. McClarey.

    I have only just realized that was quoted material I replied to above! 🙁

    By way of mitigation I was up until the we small hours after an evening of running OAPs to the polling and have had way too little sleep!

  • Scottish nationalists were originally conservatives until they learned that nationalism could be sold if alloyed with the infantile leftism

    Thus far, no indication this is working in Wales. Plaid Cymru has suffered from a slow but monotonic decline in its fortunes for about 15 years now. A couple of years ago, they installed in the leadership a lapsed social worker known for her bad attitude, loose morals, and lack of facility in Welsh Gaelic. To judge from their polls, it’s not working. At this rate, they sink to 4th party status in about a decade.

  • MPS avers that “UKIP is widely dismissed [in Scotland] as simply the breakaway Thatcherite wing of the Tory party.” Other times, he avers that UKIP is “neo-fascist”.
    It is the undying effort of the Left to paint anti-communists as fascists because fascists were anti-communist.

  • I don’t really care for “Rule Britannia” but how about Beethoven’s “Seven Variations on God Save the Queen” as a tribute to the NO vote.
    It was commissioned by a group of Scots businessmen styled the Board to Promote Arts and Manufactures iirc.

  • Art Deco

    Welsh nationalism is complicated by the language question, in a way that Scottish nationalism is not. There is, or was, a fear (well- or ill-founded) amongst monoglot English speakers that a knowledgeof Welsh could be made a requirement for the public service &c, at least in some areas, if not in all.

    I am told that one occasionally hears gaelic on police wave-bands in Glasgow; the force has traditionally recruited in the Highlands and Islands.

  • “God Save The Queen” is an awfully trite piece of music (and “Flower of Scotland,” is, if anything, rather worse)
    I remember when a new official arrangement of La Marseillaise was introduced, I think under Valéry Giscard d’Estaing. It was intended to be less martial. Well, the orchestra at the Comédie Française played it after a performance of Racine’s Phèdre with Jeanne Moreau (a fine stage performer in classical roles) in the lead.
    At its conclusion, a little stout man ran onto the stage from the wings, shouldered the conductor aside and, in the tones of a drill-sergeant, ordered, “Now, play the Marseillaise!” After a moment of stunned silence, the orchestra responded with gusto, the company and the whole audience joining in. I would not have missed that moment for worlds.

  • Michael Paterson-Seymour wrote:

    “God Save The Queen” is an awfully trite piece of music (and “Flower of Scotland,” is, if anything, rather worse)”

    Aye. It’s no’ the best anthem out there I will grant, but it is our own nonetheless. And you are entirely correct about that dirge “Flower of Scotland”. “Yon’s a cheesy tune. You’ll no play that!” 🙂

    I love “I Vow To Thee My Country”. I wish I could find a recording with the very politically incorrect extra verse. Particulary in this year of all years. For a fleeting moment I thought I had finally found one only yesterday when I came across the full version of Beck Goldsmith’s recent interpretation. But it only used the first two lines of the extra verse…


    Best of all for me though, although unsuitable as an anthem I suppose, is the late and much missed Radio 4 theme. The “Londonderry Air/Annie Laurie” segent is heartbreakingly beautiful to this Scot who’s ancestors hailed from Ulster and Ayrshire. Daft I know, but I have always thought of it as Britain’s portion of some Ainulindalë…

  • There is, or was, a fear (well- or ill-founded) amongst monoglot English speakers that a knowledgeof Welsh could be made a requirement for the public service &c, at least in some areas, if not in all.

    About 20% of the population fancies it is fluent in Welsh Gaelic, of whom the number who do not speak English approaches nil. I’d wager ‘ill-founded’.

  • Kennybhoy,
    Thanks for the link to I Vow To Thee My Country with the various renditions. I had forgotten how beautiful the music with such moving lyrics.

  • Art Deco

    Something very similar was imposed by the Irish Free State, which had an even smaller percentageof native Irish speakers.

    Even now, as an Irish friend explained to me, “It’s still compulsory, but not as compulsory as it use to be.”

  • Something very similar was imposed by the Irish Free State, which had an even smaller percentageof native Irish speakers.

    I take it de Valera understood what his constituency would assent to and what they would not.

  • Art Deco wrote, “I take it de Valera understood what his constituency would assent to and what they would not.”
    De Valera was, in private life, a member of Conradh na Gaeilge. He had joined the In 1908 he joined the Árdchraobh, where he met his wife, Sinéad Ní Fhlannagáin, a teacher of Irish at the League’s Leinster College in Parnell Square, Dublin.
    Most of the leadership of Sinn Féin were members, even though few were native speakers. There was a strong feeling at the time that political independence of England would prove illusory, without cultural independence, in which the revival of the native language would play a vital rôle.
    Curiously, in Scotland, there was a famous clash around the beginning of the last century between the Highland clergy (including the celebrated “Enzie bishops”)) and the Irish immigrant clergy over the Gaelic chapels in Glasgow. The Irish were staunchly Anglophone. The Highlanders were engaged in a struggle with government over state funding of their Gaelic Elementary schools in the diocese of Argyll and the Isles and bitterly resented what they saw as a stab in the back by the incomers.
    Note: Enzie, in NW Banffshire roughly comprises the parishes of Bellie and Raffiven and produced no fewer than 11 bishops.

Another Vote For Scottish Independence

Tuesday, September 16, AD 2014

“The noblest prospect which a Scotchman ever sees, is the high road that leads him to England!”

Dr. Samuel Johnson

As faithful readers of this blog know, I am in favor of Scotland voting to break away from the UK.  Go here to read my reasons why.  I welcome Groundskeeper Willie to the cause, particularly because of his keen insight into the Scottish national character, as he demonstrates below in mentioning some of the mortal enemies of the Scots:

Update:  Ah, PJ O’Rourke has joined the chorus calling for Scottish Independence:


This coming Thursday the Scots will vote on whether to make Scotland an independent nation. And I hope they do because it will be a disaster.

I don’t say this as a prejudiced Irishman. Even though the thistle-arse sheep-shagger Scots swiped Ulster and sent a herd of Presbyterian proddy dogs and porridge wogs to squat on our land and won the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 by using unfair—indeed, unheard of —- organization, discipline, and tactics on an Irish battlefield. We Micks only hold a grudge about such things for 300 years or so.

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24 Responses to Another Vote For Scottish Independence

  • καὶ ἐχθροὶ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οἱ οἰκιακοὶ αὐτοῦ [Matt 10:36].

  • How very true, which is why I usually recommend to clients that they do not go into business with relatives. (Like most people I am better at giving advice that taking it, since my son, unless he gets a better offer, will probably three years hence be joining me in my practice.)

  • Here is an idea that has raised it’s ugly head: “The [UK] flag at the moment is based on three Christian crosses, is that really appropriate for the demographic of the United Kingdom now? I am not absolutely sure that it is.” says Charles Ashburner CEO of the Flag Institute.

  • Congratulations! McClarey & McClarey!

  • National character trumps any so called United country which has lost (legislated away) most sense of the integrity of character, along with that of the nation.

  • It does not need to be a disaster, but Salmond and the Scottish National Party will do their bloody best to make it one in their drive to create employment opportunities for the second tier professional-managerial types and ruin Scottish labor markets and housing markets more than they have been to date. One trouble with it is that it’s much more driven by petty and unjustified resentments and vain poses than by an interest in local self-government. The latter could be advanced by general devolution within the UK and withdrawal from carbuncles like the EU and the Council of Europe (which is precisely what they wish not to do in Scotland). See also the hostility of the SNP to UKIP, which shows their true colors.

    The irony is that the UK is about the least problematic multinational state there’s ever been. The obvious candidates for a velvet divorce in the occidental world are the two halves of Belgium and the two halves of Canada (who are not facing vigorous secessionist movements as we speak).

  • My head says “NO!” But my heart says “YES!”
    And, like any self-respecting Gael when it comes to such matters, the heart rules.
    A! Fredome is a noble thing!
    Fredome mays man to haiff liking.
    Fredome all solace to man giffis,
    He levys at es that frely levys!
    Freedom is a noble thing!
    Great happiness does freedom bring.
    All solace to a man it gives;
    He lives at ease that freely lives.
    ~ John Barbour, The Brus

  • Art Deco wrote, “One trouble with it is that it’s much more driven by petty and unjustified resentments and vain poses than by an interest in local self-government. The latter could be advanced by general devolution within the UK”

    This would need some solution of the “West Lothian Question,” posed by Tam Dalyell, MP for West Lothian. At present, Scottish MPs can vote on English laws affecting, say, health or education, even though health and education are devolved to the Scottish Parliament, so those laws would apply in England, but not in Scotland. One solution would be the creation of an English assembly/parliament, or even assemblies for the English regions with devolved powers, although no one at Westminster seems particularly keen on that idea.

    More fundamentally, the whole question of the constitution of the UK would need to be addressed. At the moment the Uk has an unwritten constitution, not that it would be difficult to write it down. Here it is – “(1) Parliament can make and unmake any law whatsoever, including the laws governing its own composition and duration and (2) No person or body of persons can make any law, unless authorised by Parliament to do so.” That is the sum total of our constitutional law.

  • although no one at Westminster seems particularly keen on that idea.

    Well, maybe they ought to get busy and write the enabling legislation: one for the North, one for the Midlands, one for the West Country, one for East Anglia &c., one for London and the densely settled Home Counties, one for the rest of the Home Counties and stray southern counties. While you’re at it, get out of the EU, the United Nations, and the Council of Europe. I cannot see that it’s necessary to muck about with the British constitution in general, bar kicking Tony’s cronies out of the House of Bourgeois Lords and annulling all Euro-legislation.

  • like any self-respecting Gael

    Who got stuck with one of those blah Scandinavian patronymics. My sympathies.

  • Actually, Anderson is one of the most common surnames in Scotland, unconnected to any Scandinavian derivation. It’s derived from Mac Ghille Andrais (Mhic Giolla Andrais), also MacAndrew, which is Gaelic for son (or follower) of Andrew (the patron saint of Scotland).

  • But its definitely an Anglicization of Gaelic patronymics. So, yeah, it’s a rather “blah” surname by comparison to many of the others.

  • Never mind, Art. I misunderstood what you were saying.
    Yes, certainly, the Scandinavian influence on the development of English led to my unfortunately non-Gaelic surname.
    Oh well. Still one of the most common names in Scotland.


  • Britain can give the Scots something better than independence–quarantine!

  • Ah, Scotland…..homeland to some of Mr. McClarey’s ancestors…and some of mine.

    There is an online Catholic magazine, Regina. It is an excellent publication. The latest issue is about Scotland and its Catholics, incluidng its Catholic and anti-Catholic history. There is an article about clan Lamont – a clan loyal to the Catholic faith who often paid for it with their property and their lives. All of their ancestral homelands have been taken or sold off. What I found interesting is that one of the sept families – a family that belongs to the clan – is the McLuckie family – my mother’s family. So, I’m a member of clan Lamont! Interestingly enough, the chief of clan Lamont today is Father Peter Noel Lamont, a Catholic priest of Rydalmere, Australia.

    Soooooooo…I have another great grandparent who fled his/her homeland to escape repression/persecution (Warsaw was under the Czar’s thumb, the Kulturkampf treated Catholics like garbage, and the Scots were, well, they were Scots).


    Today, September 17th, is the 75th anniversary of the Soviet Union’s invasion of Poland.

  • Micha Elyi : “Britain can give the Scots something better than independence–quarantine!”
    I do not comprehend you comment.
    “Britain can give the Scots something better than independence–friendship”

  • Penguins Fan

    The British government treated the Highland clergy with great savagery after the failure of the ’45. Of the priests who had accompanied the Prince, Rev Mr Colin Campbell of Morar was killed at Culloden, shot down by Hessian mercenaries, whilst trying to rally the fugitives. Rev Mr Allan MacDonald, rector of the illegal, but tolerated seminary at Scalan, near Glenlivet was imprisoned for a year in a military garrison and then ordered to leave the country. Scalan itself was burned on the orders of the Duke of Cumberland, as a “nest of traitors.” Rev Mr Aeneas McGillis of Glengarry was put to the horn (outlawed) and fled the country. Of those who had stayed at home, but had “prayed for the Pretender,” Rev Mr Neil McFie of the Rough Bounds, Rev Mr Alexander Forrester of Uist and Rev Mr James Grant of Barra were bundled on board ship and deported to France, without the formality of a trial. Rev Mr William Harrison of the Rough Bounds was later captured carrying dispatches and similarly deported.

    Bishop Hugh MacDonald, who had made himself odious to government by blessing the Jacobite standard at Glenfinnan was prosecuted on the charge of being a Jesuit, priest, or trafficking papist in 1756, the first such prosecution in a century and banished, a sentence he ignored.

    Bishop Hugh Macdonald had to rebuild the Church more or less from scratch. Himself the son of Alexander MacDonald of Morar and of Mary, daughter of Ranald MacDonald of Kinlochmoidart, he recruited mostly among the Highland gentry; ordained ad titulum patrimonii sui [to the title of their patrimony] and unpaid, they stayed with relatives, or with influential friends, and served their native place. Thus we have Alexander MacDonald of the Scotus family living in Knoydart; Austen MacDonald of Glenaladale in Moidart; Allan MacDonald of Morar’s family living in the Morar area; James MacDonald, son of John MacDonald of Guidall in the Rough Bounds, and so on. Bishop Hugh was succeeded by his nephew, John MacDonald of Morar.

  • Now’s the day
    And now’s the hour

  • Mr. Paterson-Seymour,

    Clan Lamont members were killed by clan Campbell members – 136 at Dunoon in 1646 – not the English. This comes right from the clan Lamont website.

    It’s a shame clan Lamont did not have the Polish Hussars to defend them. The Husaria would have smashed the Campbells, Cromwell and his army, the rest of the anti-Catholic Scots and English and anyone else in their way. Don’t believe me?

    Pray tell, just out of curiosity, to which clan do you belong, Mr. Paterson-Seymour?

  • According to the time zones, there are five hours after the 8:00 AM announcement for the eastern US to hear results from the electronic voting machines.


  • Penguins Fan

    The Seymour family is not Scottish, but French, originally from Sint-Maur-des-Fossés in the Île-de-France. I have seen old records where the name is variously spelled Saint-Maur and St Maur.

    The numerous versions of the Seymour arms contain blue (azure) fleur-de-lis (“clove gillyflower” in Scottish heraldry) on a gold (or) field.

    Originally vassals of the abbey of St Maur, they borrowed them from the arms of the abbey, but reversed the tints. In the abbery arms, they were gold on blue. It was very common for vassals to include a reference to their superior’s arms in this way.