Osama bin Laden, Singing Chipmunks, Euroweenism and Internet Hitler

Sunday, May 8, AD 2011

 

I like to regard myself as an American patriot, but I think I can see the flaws of the nation as well as its virtues.  One of its flaws can be a certain tackiness.  A minor example:  having cartoon chipmunks singing patriotic songs.  However, before I become too embarrassed for the land of my birth, I am usually strongly reminded by a news story why I greatly appreciate living in this country. 

Such a reminder occurred this week:

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10 Responses to Osama bin Laden, Singing Chipmunks, Euroweenism and Internet Hitler

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  • How many more 9/11 memorials, tributes and ceremonies do Americans need to show how red, white and blue they are? I’ll probably get flamed for this — what else is new? — but I don’t have blinded love for a country that threatens to garnish my Social Security because I owe the VA $54 in medical bills while GE pays nothing in taxes and bribery and corruption pervade all of government with virtual impunity. Or a nation that has permitted 50 million abortions and wages 3 wars on foreign soil.

    I thought you Christians felt higher kinship with other Christians, regardless of country, rather than as fellow countrymen, which is mere tribalism and nationalism. Hence, American “exceptionalism.” We’re better than everyone else and we know what’s good for them whether they like it or not. This is the prevalent attitude in this country and it’s undeniable.

    Patriotism is at its worst when people wear American flags as clothing and hats, plaster their cars with mundane bumper stickers (i.e. America: Love it or Leave it, Ruck Fussia) and start chanting U-S-A for the flimsiest of reasons, it reminds me of the mass Nazi assemblies during Hitler’s halcyon days. Yeah, I love mom, apple pie and used to love baseball. I like a lot of things about America but I don’t need to sing the national anthem or pledge my allegiance every time I go to a game or a town meeting. I don’t need to see wreath-laying and military pep talks by a hypocritical commander-in-chief who never served and who was honored with a peace prize while waging more wars.

    Obama is milking the Osama assassination for every drop of red, white and blood he can — Ground zero, Ft. Campbell, 9/11 firehouse visits, etc. — and most everyone’s waving the flag again. In 3 more weeks, get to do it all over again with Memorial Day when gas will be five bucks. Five weeks after that it’s the Fourth of July and more fireworks and Sousa songs and hands over hearts. At the base of it all is pride — the deadliest of sins. Humility has never been one of America’s strong suits.

    OK, I’m donning my fire-retardant flame suit….GO!

  • “Patriotism is at its worst when people wear American flags as clothing and hats, plaster their cars with mundane bumper stickers (i.e. America: Love it or Leave it, Ruck Fussia) and start chanting U-S-A for the flimsiest of reasons, it reminds me of the mass Nazi assemblies during Hitler’s halcyon days.”

    Justice for 3000 of our murdered countrymen is not a “flimsy reason” Joe and comparing displays of American patriotism to Nazi assemblies is obscene and deranged. If one confuses America with utopia one is bound to be disappointed. If one compares with America what most of humanity has lived under during recorded history, America is a bright shining city on a hill.

  • “obscene and deranged.” OK, Don, I guess that’s what I am.

  • Not you Joe merely the opinion you expressed. As for you, you are simply a member of the C.O.B. club, which on my bad days I feel like I founded. 🙂

  • No, you were correct in your assessment. No need to back off. I’m an old bitter obscene and deranged man, no doubt about it.

  • I thought that clip had been made unavailable for parodies. I am happy to see that Hitler’s tirades re: the news du joir continue. And this is a great one!

    This dummkopf of a Herr Professor and many of his countrymen and women don’t seem to understand that being a great military power does not automatically entail invading Poland and setting up extermination camps. (And, perhaps, if they cannot make that distinction, it is better for them to continue to be holier-than-thou pacifists. I’d rather have the Germans sanctimoniously scolding us than goose stepping their way across Europe.) It’s like confusing being assertive and self-confident with behaving like a bully and a jerk. The formerly warlike Huns are now so sheepish they are unable to feel patriotism or draw a distinction between celebrating the death of thousands of innocents and celebrating the death of the man who killed those innocents.

    The lesson they drew from WWII was that war is always wrong. The lesson we drew from it is that appeasing tyrants like Hitler does not work. I imagine that for people who have been continually reminded of the atrocities of the Third Reich since 1945, the opportunity to play the “I’m more moral than you” game is one many Germans cannot resist.

  • A fine zinger from James Taranto at WSJ’s “Best of the Web”:

    “Der Spiegel quotes one Herfried Münkler, a snotty German political scientist who is put off by the scenes of Americans celebrating Osama bin Laden’s death:

    ‘For European observers,(Munkler says) these kinds of public gatherings are indeed somewhat embarrassing, because they demonstrate a kind of unthinking naïveté, and also because there is something provocative about them. But it was only a small number of Americans who demonstrated their feelings so openly, just as in 2001 it was only a few Muslims who were happy about the thousands who were killed in the terror attacks.’

    We guess what he’s saying is that it isn’t like the Nuremberg rallies or anything.”

  • Meanwhile, “The Sun”, London reported that racist members of the multi-racial, multi-religious English Defense League chanted “USA!” while Osama-worshipping morons attempted to turn the butcher into a hero.

  • I’m surprised you’re so insulted by the description of your comment as obscene, given that you compare people to Nazis. You don’t get to say things like that and then object that discourse has become uncivil.

Osama bin Laden and 1848

Wednesday, May 4, AD 2011

In 1848 the quiet of mid-nineteenth century Europe was shattered in a wave of revolutions throughout the continent.  Beginning in France in February, a wave of revolutions began that would ultimately engulf 50 states in Europe and Latin America.  Some succeeded and some failed, but at the end Europe and the world was a very different place.  People who lived through this stunning year wrote with disbelief as well established governments were suddenly toppled by popular uprisings.  History often proceeds at a fairly stately pace, and change can be imperceptible.  At other times History moves with a lightning pace and dramatic changes occur almost literally over night.  In 1989 we saw a similar year of revolutions in Eastern Europe  where the Communist regimes vanished like chaff before a driving wind.  The Arab world is experiencing a similar year of revolution this year, and the year is but little more than a third gone as of this writing.

Thus far governments in Tunisia, Egypt and Yemen have been toppled.  Libya is in the grip of civil war.  The Syrian government is making war against its own people as a popular uprising continues.  Major protests have occurred in Algeria, Bahrain, Iran, Jordan, Morocco and Oman and minor protests, so far, in Djibouti, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauretania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Western Sahara.  In the age of the internet, blogs, facebook, twitter and ubiquitous cell phones, it is simply no longer possible for most autocratic regimes to keep their peoples ignorant of developments around the globe, and with each government that falls the movement grows throughout the Arab world to replace highly unpopular dictatorial regimes. 

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8 Responses to Osama bin Laden and 1848

  • Interestingly, In “The Future Church”, John Allen makes a very similar albeit cautious prediction about the direction of the Arab world. Quite remarkable given that this book was penned 18 months ago or so, before the recent uprisings.

  • I don’t calculate measurable correlation. I guess the Arab spring will be as efficacious as the 1848 liberal revolution.

    BTW. Osama needs a new make-up artist.

  • 1848 was mixed T. Shaw, but overall it did start sounding the deathknell of autocratic monarchies and multi-ethnic empires in Europe. Big changes are up in the Arab world. I think it is too early to say whether these changes when viewed in toto will be good or bad for the US, but it is beyond question that the Arab world at the end of the year will have undergone more rapid change than we have seen in one year in that part of the world since World War ii. Opportunity and danger both present themselves to us.

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  • Don

    An interesting corollary.

    The revolutions of 848 followed the crop failure and hard winter of 1847. I gather it was like the African famines of recent decades in the dead of a European winter. This was just before the development of the rail road that made it possible to move food to a famine stricken area, it was leave or strave. The riots Paris in February 1848 were food riots, most of the other political trouble has it’s origin in a food shortage. Of course all sorts of groups hijacked the legitimate concerns to support their favorite cause. This of course is the origin of the famous Communist Manifesto” exploiting a major natural disaster for political gain. This is the cause of the Irish potato famine that sent many Irish to the US, and many groups such as the German immigrants whose ancestors insist the fled oppression were really fleeing famine.

    Annia Ciezadlo in Foreign Affairs suggests a more basic commodity is involved – Bread.
    Most Middle East countries subsidize the price of bread. The rising cost of bread is forcing them to raise the price. Not anywhere like 1848 but resulting in unrest. Let Them Eat Bread

    Or my shorter summary Bread and Oil

    As to where it will all go . . .? ? ?

  • Fascinating Hank. Years of Revolution like this remind me of how little we still understand ourselves. Man, I think, will always remain a mystery to man this side of the grave.

  • 1848 and onward were not good years for Pope Pius IX and the Catholic Church. He started out as a liberal and became conservative when he saw the fruits of liberalism in the wreckage left by the revolutions which swept Europe.

    In the same fashion the Arab uprisings are resulting in even more persecutions of Christians in the Middle East.

    Furthermore, I think that Pope Pius IX’s Quanta Cura is even more applicable to today’s liberalism than when it was written in 1861 (I think). It’s endlessly fascinating that we have the same problems today with liberalism and violent revolutions as the Church faced then in Europe. Man hasn’t changed one iota in spite of his science, engineering and technological prowess.

  • Pio Nono is an appealing figure to me Paul in some ways, but in the political realm his instincts were unerringly disastrous. He was one of the more incompetent rulers of the Papal States and never missed an opportunity to do damage to his cause. A man may be holy and still be a terrible secular ruler, and that is certainly the case with Pius IX. On the other hand, in the purely religious realm, his deft handling of Vatican I made for a much stronger Church to withstand the horrors awaiting it in the next century from the totalitarian regimes, and he was the first Pope to understand that using then cutting edge technology: photographs, the telegraph and mass newspapers and pamphlets, a closer bond could be forged than ever before between the pope and average Catholics. Complicated is the word that always springs to my mind when I think of the long pontificate of Pio Nono.

MONDAY EXTRA EDITION

Monday, May 2, AD 2011

Are Orthodox “Masses” Valid? – Father John Zuhlsdorf, WDTPRS?

If Fr. Pfleger is Church’s Spiritual Magnet. . . Reason to Suspend Him – L. Graas

Universities Respond to Cardinal Newman Society Report – Tim Drake, NCReg

Osama bin Ladin, Death Penalty, & Targeted Killings – Eduardo Penalver, MOJ

Lepanto, 1571: The Battle that Saved Europe – H. W. Crocker III, InsideCthlc

Question About Infallibility – Mark Shea, The Daily Register

How to Respond When a Loved One Leaves the Church – Eric Sammons, OSV

SSPX Threatens Legal Action Against Friendly Catholic Forum – Tancred, TEF

The Monster – Dale Ahlquist, The Distributist Review

Don’t Block Your Blessings – Monsignor Charles Pope, AOW

Pope Appoints New Bishop to Florida Diocese – Catholic News Agency

Divine Mercy Sunday – Doctor Anthony Lilles, Beginning to Pray

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The Catholic Response to the Death of a Murderer

Sunday, May 1, AD 2011

An already busy weekend concluded with the surprise announcement by President Obama that Osama Bin Laden had been killed on Sunday morning, May 1 by a team of American forces in a compound in Pakistan.

There’s a lot to be digested, and a lot of questions for what this means for an already uncertain future in the Middle East. However, as the crowds pour into Lafayette Square with jubilation, it is important to remember how this day began. It began as Divine Mercy Sunday, the Second Sunday of Easter, which this year saw the beatification of John Paul II, an event which marked the holiness of the man. One cannot think about the holiness of John Paul II without recalling his powerful forgiveness of his would-be assassin. For Catholics, this day began as a testament to the powerful force of God’s love and mercy.

So it should it end the same way. Bin laden did much evil. He killed scores of innocents, contributed to the starts of several wars, and used religion to create a culture of hatred. For Americans, we watched as our brothers and sisters were killed, wounded, or separated from their families. If anyone deserved to be riddled with American bullets, it was he.

But “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” has no “but” clauses. The culture of life that John Paul II spoke from womb to tomb; the dignity and beauty of God-given human life is not diminished by one’s sins. God’s mercy and love has no exceptions; as Christians our mercy and love are to have no exceptions.

Simply put, God loved Osama Bin Laden and extended His mercy to him. It is our duty as Christians, as witnesses to the love of God to extend our forgiveness to Bin Laden and pray that he accepted that mercy and that we will be with us in paradise. The celebration around his death ought to make all Christians uneasy; even more so the many declarations that they hope Osama is burning in hell.

This is a difficult teaching to be sure, especially for those who lost a loved one due to Bin Laden. But the Church has never claimed that its teachings were easy. Instead, it has offered the grace and sacraments to live it out, as well as pointed to the examples of extraordinary human beings who lived it out. Today, the Church named a man blessed who knew deeply about the costs of love and forgiveness. So Blessed John Paul II, pray for us. Pray that our country can use this moment to emerge more unified. Pray for the world that we may escape an era of fear and hatred and violence. Pray for us that in this time, we can follow your example and use this moment to witness to the love & mercy poured out by our Savior, Jesus Christ.

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91 Responses to The Catholic Response to the Death of a Murderer

  • Michael
    I don’t see things that way. Bin Laden was killed with one shot while shooting at what he knew was either Pakistan military or ours. Ergo he was shooting at government forces. His only chance of making Purgatory is if God knew him to have a high functional insanity whereby he could function daily but was controlled by subconscious forces to do material evil without formal guilt. That is why we can’t judge him. But he was not repentant if he was firing at estblished forces. Judas according to Christ, Augustine, and Chrysostom but not our last two Popes…..is in hell right now. We don’t need an encyclical because we have inerrant scripture.
    Don’t worry. Those in hell had to reject much love from God to even get there.
    The New Testament says: ” If the just man will scarcely be saved, where will the impious and the sinner appear?”. That’s the Holy Spirit. You are correct though that outside Judas and other Bible figures, we do not know who is in hell because Trent said one could only know by revelation.

  • I’m not sure why you think Osama was killed by a single shot, but your theory assumes he committed mortal sin and was killed instantly. I hope that when he was shot there was enough time, perhaps even a split second, that the outpouring of infinite love & grace of our God touched his heart and that, like the thief on the cross, Osama stole eternity.

    If he never repented, then I shudder to think of his fate.

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  • While it is certainly sinful to wish ill for someone, it is a good thing to rejoice at justice. Sort of like being happy about the victory at Lepanto, or thankful that the Turks were turned back at Vienna, and the Jihad stopped at Tours. That’s not a bad thing. It should be tempered, obviously, by a hope that their souls were somehow saved.

  • This is a wonderful response – beautiful in its wording and challenging in its content. I must admit, as an American Catholic, I am struggling with my own personal reaction. On one hand, I did not lose any loved ones on September 11th, so I have a great deal of difficulty even feeling like I have a right to ask for Osama’s forgiveness. To do so, on some level, feels like it would be an insult to all those who did lose loved ones on that day or in any of his orchestrated attacks. But, on the other hand, I do believe that God extends His mercy to all, and as Jesus told St. Faustina, “Let the greatest sinners place their trust in My mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy (Diary of St. Faustina, 1146).”

    All I know is this – the moment Osama Bin Laden died, my family was united, praying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy on the Feast of Divine Mercy for dying sinners, especially those most in need of our Lord’s mercy. The thought is heart shattering for me. I do not believe in coincidence when it comes to how God deals out mercy. Let us pray that people around the world, especially those most wronged by Osama Bin Laden, will be given the grace to find closure and peace in the human justice dealt today and, perhaps in God’s time, the grace to forgive him according to the Divine Mercy our Lord extended to Osama Bin Laden on the cross.

    Blessed Pope John Paul II, pray for us!

  • Single shot to the head after he was given the chance to surrender.

  • I never rejoice with the dead of anybody, and less when the person is killed, even when the person is a killer, himself. The Pasion of Our Lord, the Redemption, was for him too. God have mercy on his soul.

  • Sic transit gloria mundi.

    Osama had his day of infamy. As the Bard tells us, the evil that men do lives after them, and so it is with bin Laden. I cannot imagine there was much good to be interred with his bones.

    This man has been the rallying cry for much atrocity, pain and death in this world – I cannot imaging many mourning his passing, except perhaps those distorted and overtaken with his teaching.

    It is a good thing he is dead. It is not a good thing that there is a very strong case that he is eternally damned – God made all of us for Him and it is a cause for great sorrow when one separates himself from God by his own doing.

    Now we should prepare ouselves for the onslaught of hundreds who would step up to take his place.

  • Well said Don. I am saving some prayer time for those today and in the coming weeks who will inevitably be slain by adherents of the religion of peace in revenge for the fact that bin Laden has received long delayed justice.

  • “I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.” – Mark Twain

  • And, the Yanks and Mets won!

    Good thing: He will not be responsible for the murder of one more innocent civilian. Two: possibly this will reduce the massacre artists’ effectiveness. Three: it may demoralize mass murderers.

    Genesis: “Who spills man’s blood, by man shall his blood be spilled. For man was made in the Image of God.”

    “He who has no sword, sell his mantle and buy a sword.” Jesus

    Why would anyone ever attempt to live a good life if everyone will be saved no matter what evil they did?

  • I see nothing wrong with celebrating a military victory in a just war, which is what this is. Osama had the chance to live by surrendering. He chose not to. His soul is in God’s hands, and I trust that He will do with it what is both just and merciful. This will not dampen my celebrating. Our soldiers have accomplished a great feat, and an enemy has been vanquished.

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  • This triumph of justice deserves to be celebrated.

  • This is written with the heart of the Church, our Savior Jesus Christ.

    You are a good man, Michael Denton.

  • I don’t normally take joy in anyone’s death, but Bin Laden got what he deserved. Although I do not believe in an afterlife, if there is a hell, then Osama will get a presidential suite along with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Mussolini and Tojo.

  • In Lawrence of Arabia, Sherif Ali (Omar Sharif) sees the glow of heavy shelling across the desert. He says to Lawrence (Peter O’Toole), “God help the men that lie under that.” Lawrence says, “They are Turks” (i.e. the enemy). Ali continues to watch, and listen to the distant pounding of the guns, and says again, “God help them.”

    We can be happy for military victories but there is a difference between being thankful (and I’d say we should lean towards the thankful, rather than the joyful) for defeating a ruthless enemy, and saying things like “I hope you have fun in hell,” as a few had on their facebook pages. I am sad that anyone has to die in war, and I pray that it may not be so. From a military and intelligence standpoint, I’m impressed with this achievement–but I am never happy that someone was killed and I only hope capturing him was impossible.

    Thanks Michael for this piece.

  • Amen, Michael.

  • Why would anyone ever attempt to live a good life if everyone will be saved no matter what evil they did?

    I don’t see anyone saying OBL is saved despite his evil. Mr. Denton is simply pointing out that one can (should?) hope OBL availed himself of God’s grace which is made available to all. Whether he took advantage of that or not is between him and God.

    I don’t know if “celebrate” is the right attitude, but I think we can be thankful to some extent justice (at least to the extent it can be delivered by fallible human means) has been served.

  • You have got to be kidding me. An incredibly evil man was killed during a Just War. God certainly loved him, but he didn’t love God, which is why he ended up the way he did.

    This “mixed-emotions” response from the members of a Church that every October 7th celebrates a battle in which thousands of our enemies were killed is preposterous.

    St. Pius V, pray for us!

  • It’s oddly hard for me to have any strong feelings one way or the other on this one.

    I’m not really putting much energy in working up feelings of tenderness for Bin Ladin, since I think doing so would be more an exercise in show than anything else. (It meant something for John Paul II to forgive his assassin, it would be self indulgent for me to go around telling people that I forgave John Paul II’s assassin.) And though Bin Ladin can at a human level be a subject for human pity, so are lots of other people rather more worthy of consideration.

    That said, this is, sadly, probably not the military victory that Hitler’s suicide in the bunker was. Being the sort of movement that it is, I’m not sure how much of a handicap losing Bin Ladin is to Al Qaeda. I hope I’m wrong about that, but I fear it’s more a symbolic victory than a productive one.

    No cheers or tears for me.

  • Excellent column. I concur with Michael’s comments. In no way can we as believers wish damnation upon anyone no matter how evil their actions.

  • A brilliant, brave and theologically on target article…Thank you!! At times like this it is not easy to follow the guidelines our Catholic faith provides us. But it is in times like this that we can exercise our true faith and be an example to a terribly violent world.

  • “That said, this is, sadly, probably not the military victory that Hitler’s suicide in the bunker was. Being the sort of movement that it is, I’m not sure how much of a handicap losing Bin Ladin is to Al Qaeda. I hope I’m wrong about that, but I fear it’s more a symbolic victory than a productive one.”

    I suspect that is true. Al Qaeda has become decentralized and can act independently through a multitude of cells.

    A man who did great evil is now answerable to God. I pray for his soul. I give thanks that at least Osama’s involvement in evil has come to an end.

  • While most everyone’s celebrating, chances are this will only fuel more terrorist attacks and a new “bin Laden” will emerge to carry on jihad. I hope I’m wrong but wouldn’t be surprised if major retaliation in the form of mass murder doesn’t occur soon, possibly in America.

  • chances are this will only fuel more terrorist attacks and a new “bin Laden” will emerge to carry on jihad. I hope I’m wrong but wouldn’t be surprised if major retaliation in the form of mass murder doesn’t occur soon, possibly in America.

    You mean they have been saving their ammo for 10 years for a retaliatory demonstration shot?

  • All I’m saying is that the other shoe has yet to drop.

  • All I’m saying is that the other shoe has yet to drop.

    If al Qaeda has a shoe they can drop on us, I suppose they will, but I think we tend to overestimate their ability to suddenly achieve anything over here in the US by getting really mad these days.

  • Hello Michael,
    THANK YOU for posting “The Catholic Response to the Death of a Murderer “! It took courage and it is obvious that you are a Man of God..of faith! When I read the paper this morning, I wondered how many Catholics and other Christians would read the news of Osama’s death. You are so very right…as disciples of Christ..we must live the Message of Divine Mercy!
    The Dairy of St. Faustina says that the Lord calls upon the soul at the time of his/her death. Thank you for your act of faith and charity!
    I heard about your blog on “Women of Grace” EWTN program today, May 2nd. Will also like to share it on our TV/Radio weekly program in South Texas – “Catholicism Live!” on Catholic Television of San Antonio and Guadalupe Radio – grnonline.com.

  • Thank you for this column. It struck me when I heard the news that it was also Divine Mercy Sunday. I prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet for Osama bin Laden and his friends as soon as I heard of his death. I hope he will be forgiven by God if not by his fellow human beings.

  • Of course, Atla, bin Laden, Hitler, Muhammed, Pol Pot, Lenin, Mao, Ho, Che, et al could be in Heaven.

    But, not so much anyone that disagrees with you.

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  • I hope that Bin Ladin repented. If not there is nothing that we can do for him.

  • If Hitler is in heaven, the God really needs to review his Plan.

  • I will merely quote what Mrs Zummo said above, because I concur with it entirely:

    “I see nothing wrong with celebrating a military victory in a just war, which is what this is. Osama had the chance to live by surrendering. He chose not to. His soul is in God’s hands, and I trust that He will do with it what is both just and merciful. This will not dampen my celebrating. Our soldiers have accomplished a great feat, and an enemy has been vanquished.”

  • I’m glad the bastard is gone and it’s a feel-good day, I suppose. Never saw so much celebration of death. Now Obama is going to cash in politically by visiting Ground Zero on Thursday, and do his George Bush megaphone shtick. 9/11 is the new Pearl Harbor promised by the neo-cons needed to revive American patriotism and military spending. It’s working just great. Geniuses.

  • Neocons had nothing to do with 9-11 Joe and the man who had everything to do with it has been judged by God. It is a very good day.

  • Don, read “The New American Century” — the pre-9/11 blueprint that said that only “a new Pearl Harbor” would revive military spending, etc. Of course, I know you are skeptical of conspiracy theories and don’t need to see Obama’s birth certificate, Osama’s body, nor the wounds in Jesus’ side to believe. Some of us, however, prefer a bit more proof.

    Doubting Joe

  • Joe Green, what we need proof of is the ridiculous scenario you’re implying.

  • Joe, go here to their website:

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/defensenationalsecurity.htm

    They were a public thinktank and you can read their publications on line. The suggestion that they had any involvement with 9-11 is bizarre, if that is the point you were trying to make.

  • Francis and Don: I’ve spent my life asking questions and, more importantly, questioning answers. I often do not accept things at face value. 40 years of journalism has given me a sense of objectivity that I find is missing from most people. More than most I know that the press separates the wheat from the chaff and prints the chaff.

  • Joe, Buddy!

    Do you “Swear there ain’t no Heaven, and pray there ain’t no Hell”?

    Er, are you a truther?

    Are you a journalist? I used to give interviews about “stuff” with which I was involved. None of them ever got it even close. I now see the reports misstated each week. I used to think it was simple dishonesty. Now, I’m moving towards arrogance and its sister, Stupidity.

    That would explain a great deal.

    MarkD: I am saddened you aren’t in Heaven, yet.

  • I’m just happy that the Loyal Order of Water Buffalos haven’t been called out.

    I may have said too much.

    Oh well.

  • Don, sorry to threadjack but was wondering whether you saw Andersonville directed by John Frankenheimer and what you thought of it.

  • Joe:

    As a soon to be journalist, your cynicism is extremely disheartening. Asking questions is great. Being a negative person really isn’t.

    This post really explains how we should view this event. It won’t be easy for anyone, but celebrating death is the last thing we should be doing right now – especially when have such a great opportunity for reconciliation and closure.

  • I think Joe brings up a very important point. Ever since I heard that Osama was killed (again, I thought he was already dead) I became more and more concerned that no one is asking any hard questions. This is too politically opportunistic for Obama. I am not saying that Osama wasn’t killed yesterday, but there is no proof and a great deal of questions that are not being asked and not being answered.

    Why was there a crowd of college kids mimicking a Tea Party to laud Obama as Bush III BEFORE the announcement was made? Why didn’t the secret service, the Marines and Capitol Police treat these people the way they treat everyone else including grandma in the same place? I live in enemy-occupied Northern Virginia, so i get into DC quite often; you can’t as much as sneeze in front of the White House without being questioned, especially if you are singing the anthem or displaying the colors. No one was molested and they were behaving like barbarians. Isn’t anyone else finding this odd? Why isn’t anyone wondering what that luatic Geraldo was doing in the middle of the crowd as a cheerleader? He is always ready to spit vitriol toward any Tea Party event or cheer anyone questioning the authority of the Church, why not these loons? I guess Fox thinks this is too good to pass up for their ‘conservative’ audience. No one is asking hard questions that celebrating the death of a bad guy who was impotent as a threat before he was killed. Al Qu’ida is still around. The Middle-east is more of a mess than ever. Jihadists are more ready than ever to strike. We will see a strike and the War on Terror will escalate and we will be pleased to become less free out out of fear.

    Additionally, did you notice that Obama’s focus-group studies had him correct his speech – He said our nation is under God – he has omitted that on numerous occasions recently. I would like to hope he had a conversion, but I doubt it. He also stuttered and stammered and usually he is so ‘eloquent’ and ‘articulate’. it seems he DOES have a conscience and it creates a tell in his speech when he disturbs it. He was lying – as usual.

    Before anyone jumps on me as a conspiracy nut job, I am not saying Osama was not killed yesterday; I am merely saying that we, at least our ‘free press’ should be asking harder questions. Would CNN and MSNBC and the NYT be as soft on Bush if he had declared that he killed Osama in October 2004? I just want more investigation – where’s the body?

  • Rose, life hardens some, softens others. In my case, cynicism has overtaken skepticism, I admit. The ideals of youth often are lost in old age. I wish you every success in your chosen field.

  • Knight, good to know I’m not alone in my skepticism of buying the White House line and media propaganda.

  • Joe, Buddy!

    Do you “Swear there ain’t no Heaven, and pray there ain’t no Hell”?

    Er, are you a truther?

    Are you a journalist? I used to give interviews about “stuff” with which I was involved. None of them ever got it even close. I now see the reports misstated each week. I used to think it was simple dishonesty. Now, I’m moving towards arrogance and its sister, Stupidity.

    That would explain a great deal.

    MarkD: I am saddened you aren’t in Heaven, yet.
    ===========================================
    T. Shaw: A lie goes around the world in a minute while truth hasn’t even gotten off the starting line. As I write this, Obama is milking Osama’s death for at least the third time publicly, using a Medal of Honor presentation to 2 Korean War vets posthumously to blow his horn — unseemly to say the least — then getting a standing O at a congressional dinner by boasting about the assassination.

  • I don’t know quote how this post became a conspiracy theory thread. I don’t think its plausible that Obama waited to kill Osama till this very minute, b/c that story makes no sense. However, I am slightly distrustful of the White House accounts of the raids, as it seems they’re trying to hide the fact that this was a kill mission and that whether or not bin Laden was unarmed or the Seals had an opportunity to capture him the only goal was to kill Bin Laden. But we shall have to see as more information becomes available; I hope that the killing was done justly.

  • I think they went in to take him out. Capture would not have meant closure.

  • I don’t think this has become a ‘conspiracy’ thread. I and, I think Joe Green, are simply asking questions. I am not saying he wasn’t killed yesterday, I am also not sure he didn’t die several years ago. The fact is our reaction to this event has a moral dimension and although our reaction to it is not necessarily predicated on this being a true story or mass propaganda it has some relevance. Worrying if this was a just kill or not would be silly if this is merely a tool of mass psychology. I just find it odd that we seem to be more concerned with vengeance cloaked as justice that we aren’t asking the hard questions. Obama has a history of deceit and only seems to have any ‘principles’ when it comes to defending the legal right to kill babies. Am I a conspiracy nut for not trusting him? I don’t think so. I want proof of death and I want to know why this has happened, why now and why in the way it did. Those are fair questions.

    If I had to lean one way or the other, I don’t think we killed him yesterday – I think he was already dead and now that we have more dragons in the middle-east the Osama bogey man has lost his use as tool of mass psychology. All the monsters abroad are permitted to ‘threaten’ us so long as it serves the money and power hungry political class, as soon as they are crossed, bye, bye. Either way, I want the truth and I intend to make my moral decisions based on that knowledge.

    Either way, I find the jubilation distasteful. I am glad that, for whatever reason, Osama is no longer a threat, that is something to be thankful for. Jubilant, not so much. I felt the same way when they hung Saddam. He certainly had more time to repent. I was sad that he had made himself into such a monster and I was glad that he was not able to do anymore harm. i thanked God for ending his terror. But, when I saw the Iraqi’s cheering, it made me sick. The guy lost his life, perhaps forever – that is never cause for joy; it can be just, but not joyful.

  • “Would CNN and MSNBC and the NYT be as soft on Bush if he had declared that he killed Osama in October 2004? ”

    But it’s not October 2004 -or October 2012. Look, while I am no fan of Obama’s, if he cynically planned this to boost his chances of reelection, his timing is way off. Yes, some on the left are crowing that this makes him a shoo-in for a second term, but they are as wrong as – well, as they usually are. Bush I had a 90% approval rating after the first Gulf War. And yet, 2 years later an previously unknown Southern governor was taking the oath of office. The economy of 1992 was peaches and cream compared to what we are going through now.

    I am glad justice was done and Osama will kill no more. I am willing to give Obama credit, but I also give credit to Dubya and, above all, to the brave men and women in our military. I also know that Osama’s death will not make a trip to the gas station or the grocery store less painful for already hard-pressed Americans nor will it create jobs or make socialized medicine more popular. Baring some unforeseen event (which of course can always occur), I am willing to wager that the 2012 election will be largely about domestic issues – and the Prez is not doing too well in that department.

  • Oh and Mark D, when last I heard from you, you were singing the praises of the wonderfully idealistic candidate from the wonderfully idealistic city of Chicago. If I recall correctly you maintained that Mr. Obama would end the dastardly Bush-Cheney wars, close Gitmo and lo, there would be peace on earth and lollipops would drop from the heavens. Instead Gitmo is still open, we’ve opened up a third front and Palestinians are rioting on the West Bank, so chagrined they are over the death of their hero, the mass murderer of thousands.

    Things aren’t quite working out the way you predicted, eh, Mr. D?

  • Michael Denton said, “I hope the killing was done justly.” I am sure that it was done as justly as what Jael wife of Heber did to Sisera who was persecuting the children of Israel in Judges chapter 4 (albeit that God allowed this because of rebellion – I see lots of parallels here). Verse 21 says, “Jael wife of Heber took a tent peg and hammer, tiptoed toward him, and drove the tent peg through his temple and all the way into the ground. He convulsed and died.” And perhaps it was done as justly as when God sent to she-bears after the youths who taunted Elisha for being bald in 2nd Kings 2nd Kings 2:23-25.

    God does the same thing in the same way every time because He always does it right.

  • Oh, and one last thing – the US military has sent a mass murderer to God’s Judgment Seat, having first given him a chance to surrender, but he refused. And those with him used a woman as a shield, the news reports. So now they stand before the Almighty.

  • “I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.” – Martin Luther King Jr.

  • I deleted your last comment Joe. I enjoy a good rant more than the next man I think, but this is Michael’s thread and your lengthy rant would have taken it in any number of directions other than the topic of the thread, with the remainder of the thread being taken up in a back and forth between you and those responding to your rant. I would urge everyone to stay focused on the topic raised by Michael in his post.

  • Mea culpa.

  • My thoughts in short, if I may:

    1) Forgiveness doesn’t mean to allow one to escape punishment. Blessed Pius IX sent more than 200 people to the scaffold. Fortunately, he didn’t do third-rate Christianity. Osama got what he deserved, less than he deserved.

    2) I agree that it is not right to wish hell to anyone. I do not wish hell even to Stalin or Pol Pot. Still, one is allowed by his religion to make an educated guess, and I think that in this case the educated guess contains a terrible warning.

    3) I am all in favour of forgiving OBL after he has got his two bullets in the head. “Forgiving” doesn’t mean that he was right, but the we do not wish him more punishment the one God in his justice will consider adequate for him.

    4) I have prayed for him, after some effort (and have blogged about it). I can’t reproach those to whom this would smack of goodism or hypocrisy. That the man is in hell is objectively so probable, that one is justified if he doesn’t feel like praying for him.

    5) It is right to jubilate and be merry (and I am going to blog on this, too). He was a military target and his demise is the equivalent of military victories of the past. Provided one doesn’t pollute his joy with hatred, I think it is perfectly fine to rejoice.

    6) Allow me, as a European, to express my warmest thanks to – and admiration for – the only Country which still has the guts to pay the price – in money, and in lives – to defend our liberty.

    You should be very proud of being Americans.

    Mundabor

    Mundabor

  • Michael, thank you for this Christian view. It is so hard for us to understand our call, and it is exactly in these difficult moments that we must continue to witness to Christ and make him present. I have been quite uneasy at the celebration – and while it is REALLY difficult we must pray for our enemies.

    The celebrations where people were chanting USA as if it was an Olympic event demonstrated to me something very sad about our country. This was not the end of WWII, it was the death of a man. Perhaps necessary, even good, but that is not something of sport.

    To me it spoke of how Bin Laden’s hate has infected others. While understandable, it is difinitely not Christian.

  • I always get uneasy when people who are ostensibly American citizens don’t want to take any pride in their country or its armed forces when these forces send a vicious murderer (who was given the chance to surrender and refused) to the Almighty for final judgment. However…………that being said, Obama’s sanctification of the murder of the unborn is very bit as evil as Osama’s terrorism. If one doesn’t feel pride in America because of our own evil against the unborn, then I can understand that. But some previous comments seem to be more of a sympathy party for the wicked than a remorse for the sexual immorality and infanticide of the unborn that this country commits within its own borders on a daily basis, all of which makes the Presidential announcer of Osama’s death the biggest hypocrite of all.

    I suggest we repent and get holy before what happened to Osama happens to us. We don’t have hate of Osama infecting us as much as we have sin (idolatry, adultery, fornication, homosexual sodomy, murder, thievery, etc.) infecting us regardless of Osama bin Laden. If he was evil, then what are we?

  • Now we’re hearing Osama wasn’t armed, was using a cane, had kidney disease and didn’t use a human shield. Stay tuned for more updates on our never-ending wall-to-wall coverage of the death of the “world’s most dangerous terrorist.”

    Meanwhile, let’s hear from Joseph Goebbels:

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

  • Joe,

    Do you have web links to reputable web sites substantiating your assertions? No news report I have seen too date has made the claims you have made. Furthermore, being a liar, “Joseph Goebbels” would lie as much for the conspiracy theorist who believes everything that is truly American is damned as he would lie for an American propagandist who believes that everything isn’t American is damned. The key word here is “lie.”

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  • Hmmm….One’s definition of a “teputable web site” would depend on whether the views and opinions expressed therein comfort with one’s own, wouldn’t it? I confess to swimming against the tide, Paul, and for that I am willing to suffer the strong currents I encounter. Each of us is free to believe or disbelieve that which we perceive to be the truth of matters.

    More to your point, as I am not sure to what “claims” you are referring to inasmuch as I have made many, I am unable to respond in the particular.

    As for Goebbels and his ilk, I believe it’s not unreasonable to think that we have much to learn from history’s errors, although so far mankind as shown little ability to grasp such lessons.

    One can always hope.

  • Joe,

    I’m actually not interested in opinion, just the facts. What substantiation is there for the assertion that Osama, 54 years of age, was walking with a cane and had kidney disease? Are their photographs of him with a cane? Are their medical reports of some kind concerning his kidney disease? Or is all this just another claim made in the swarm of confusion over this event and its aftermath?

    BTW, history indicates Hitler had some form neurological disease that caused uncontrollable shaking on one side of his body, and had other afflictions as well. None of that stopped him from his evil. Furthermore, just because someone is physically sick doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t reap what he has sown.

    I wouldn’t be quick too damn all that is American with the exception that I noted in a previous comment.

  • Paul, the Osama info was a “crawler” on Fox News an hour ago. Is that “reputable” enough for you? Other corporateland state-owned media, including CNN and AP, have reported that no human shield was used despite first reports. So, from the first bulletins of the Seals facing a blaze of gunfire from bin Laden, we now are being told that he was defenseless and lame. Perhaps then, as the story and legend unfold, it would do well to wait until all the “facts” are in.

    “History indicates”? I’d need better sourcing than that. But conceding the point, if a neurological disease could be classified as a mental disorder than perhaps Hitler, with a good lawyer, might have made a decent defense on insanity grounds and would have wound up with a lesser sentence than a firing squad. (grist for a novelist)

  • Joe Green,
    Your self-righteous posturing as a martyr for truth is plain silly. I think I’m paraphrasing Chesterton when I say that one effect of unbelief is not that the unbeliever believes in nothing but that he’ll believe anything.

  • Francis, I take vast comfort in the fact that I am virtually alone in my position. I thanks whatever gods that be that we are on opposite sides.

  • Joe, what if Francis has chosen God’s side? Where does your statement then leave you? I am not accusing you or judging you, but your remark indicates atheism or at least agnosticism: “whatever gods there may be”. There is only ONE God – Yahweh – and His Son Yeshua gave His life so that you and I may be free of sin (which really is the ONLY freedom that ultimately counts). If you don’t believe that, then I do NOT rejoice that we are on opposite sides of the fence. Rather, I would grieve for you (if I understand you correctly). How could I NOT want Heaven for everyone? Even you (bad choice of words I suppose)? But that requires repentance (which evidence indicates Osama did not possess, but we don’t know for 100% certainty, just a 99% likelihood).

    And no, I do NOT presume to suppose I am on the fast track to Heaven. Personally, I’ll be happy to make it to a 1000 years in Purgatory because I know what I deserve, but mercy is not getting what you do deserve. OK, enough of a divergence. I suppose this is off topic. Sorry.

  • Oh! Oh! Is the catholic Liberal Intelligentsia coalescing in outrage over the murder of Usma bin Laden? Seems not so much coagulating goes on over 45,000,000 abortions.

    Furthermore, Obama made three major speech trumpeting this war crime and unlawful invasion/violation of Pakistani National Sovereignty.

    Meanwhile, I’m writing an endorsement for his nomination for a second nobel peace prize.

    hahahahahahahaha . . .

  • You guys are something else if not entertaining. I give up. At this point, I concede everything. You are all right and I am all wrong. It is my sincere hope that this will gladden your day and end any further discourse in this thread.

  • Joe, we’re not the ones who are supposed to be recognized as right. Rather, Jesus is right. Concede nothing to us. Concede everything to Him.

  • I’d take that under advisement.

  • Mundabor wrote:

    “Allow me, as a European, to express my warmest thanks to – and admiration for – the only Country which still has the guts to pay the price – in money, and in lives – to defend our liberty.
    You should be very proud of being Americans.”

    Thank you for your kind words.

  • I’m appalled that some of you are praying for this man’s soul, as if he deserves the benefit of the doubt of damnation. Man up, my friends, and put your money where your mouth is – ask your priest to offer a Mass for Osama bin Laden. When he laughs you out of the church, I hope you realize that you’re not responding to this like the Church should.

    God’s mercy is endless and all things are possible with God. However, that mercy has to be responded to in order for someone to be saved. We cannot place any individual in hell, but we have a duty to act decently. Placing Osama bin Laden in the same camp as a dead, misguided, anti-Catholic family member is very indecent.

  • To the poster who mentioned our rejoicing (without prayers for dead Turkish invaders, I might add) over Lepanto – Thank you. You couldn’t be more on target.

  • God’s mercy is endless and all things are possible with God. However, that mercy has to be responded to in order for someone to be saved. We cannot place any individual in hell, but we have a duty to act decently. Placing Osama bin Laden in the same camp as a dead, misguided, anti-Catholic family member is very indecent.

    This makes no sense to me. You have the same evidence of repentance for Bin Laden as you have for a family member. Why is indecent then? We hope all people, even the disgusting ones, accepted God at the end. That’s not the same as saying they are just as likely as Osama. I would say it unlikely that Osama did whereas most people we know are more likely to have done so.

    I don’t think that’s indecent; I think it’s hopeful & realistic.

  • It now looks like Osama wasn’t involved in a firefight. Was it still a just action if it were an execution? Even if Osama could’ve been taken alive safely?

  • Assuming that the SEALs were engaged in a fire fight with anyone in the compound, bin Laden as the presumed commander would have been a target on sight unless he immediately announced his surrender. This of course leaves aside a consideration that I am sure would have been in the minds of the SEALs: is bin Laden wearing a suicide belt rigged with explosives, a trick engaged in by so many of his minions in the past. This was far from a normal military operation against a conventional foe.

  • The Commander in Chief has ordered a standing kill order on Osama, so whether armed or not, the kill was justified.

  • Let’s talk hypothetically then.
    Bin Laden is in his compound alone. He’s naked with nothing in his hands.
    Would killing him still be justified?

  • The proper authority, George W. Bush, as Commander in Chief, gave a justified standing kill order for a mass murderer that attacked innocent lives in a cowardly act. To my knowledge his successor did not rescind that order. Any member of the US military is justified in carrying out that order irrespective of the conditions at the time.

    Bin Laden could have turned himself in anytime in the last nine years and then we would have been under obligation to take him into custody alive.

  • “He’s naked with nothing in his hands.
    Would killing him still be justified?”

    Yes, so we wouldn’t have to look at his ugly butt.

  • I’m impressed with the professionalism and training of the SEALS. I could not have hit anything while laughing my head off.

    Does anyone know what were Obama’s last words?

  • T. Shaw:
    Wednesday, May 4, 2011 A.D. at 11:18am

    I’m impressed with the professionalism and training of the SEALS. I could not have hit anything while laughing my head off.

    Does anyone know what were Obama’s last words?
    ===================================
    Possibilities:

    “Ever hear of knocking?”
    “Please!!! My real name is Moses Goldstein!”
    “If you’re the police, where are your badges?”
    “I was just gonna make some espresso.”
    “Virgins, here I come!!”

  • GENEVA (Reuters) – The United Nations’ top human rights official called on the United States Tuesday to give the U.N. details about Osama bin Laden’s killing and said that all counter-terrorism operations must respect international law.
    […]
    “This was a complex operation and it would be helpful if we knew the precise facts surrounding his killing. The United Nations has consistently emphasized that all counter-terrorism acts must respect international law,” Pillay said in a statement issued in response to a Reuters request.

    Here is one response that says it all:

    http://i52.tinypic.com/2wmkjgo.jpg

  • Perhaps the administration should’ve simply said, “Bin Laden was killed in a firefight. These are are the details we’ll give.”

    But I suppose the media and the public are too curious for that to be sufficient.

  • I don’t have a problem with OBL being in heaven some day with me (assuming I make it) because I trust not only in our loving God’s mercy but also his justice.

Why Is Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral In Al Qaeda's Crosshairs?

Sunday, October 3, AD 2010

The target of the Notre Dame Cathedral seemed a bit out of place. Every other Al Qaeda target listed by the captured Ahmed Sadiqui was secular in origin, be the Eiffel Tower in Paris, the Brandenburg Gate and Alexander Platz TV tower in Berlin, or the United Kingdom movements of the British Royal family. Why Notre Dame (which means Our Lady in French i.e. the Blessed Virgin Mary) and why not any other churches like St Paul’s in London or St Peter’s or St Michael’s in Munich make the list which has caused world governments to issue terror warnings and travel updates? To understand this question one has to understand the mindset of Al Qaeda. To the tried and true jihadist, Western Europe was almost under their control until two critical events occurred; the Battle of Lepanto in 1571 and the Siege of Vienna in 1683, when Our Lady intervened and stopped the Islamic armies in their tracks.

Now some would falsely point out that the Crusades of the 11th and 12th centuries were western victories and thus Islamic sore points, this is far from the truth. The Crusades actually were seen as a great victory in the Islamic World. Though we are now told by those in the mainstream media that the Crusades were a heinous act, they were in fact a small defensive action taken by the west to defend themselves against the Islamic armies who had been invading historical Christian lands for centuries. Long before they were Islamic lands, the Middle East and North Africa were filled with vibrant Christian centers and revelatory figures like Saint Augustine.  The very argument that Christianity was not appealing to the masses was left empty by the need of the Islamic armies to have a military conquest. Now my colleague Joe Hargrave has written a great piece on the Crusades which I highly encourage you to read. It is not my intention to go into any further detail about the Crusades for this article. I would again refer to the above link for Joe’s article or a similar article I wrote entitled; A Review of Al Qaeda’s Little Reported On War Against The Catholic Church.

Getting back to the 1571 Naval Battle of Lepanto and the land battle outside the Gates of Vienna in 1683; they were the turning point for Islamic military conquest and military failure. Islamic armies would never again threaten the heart of Europe. The hoped for world Caliphate did not come to fruition. To the militant jihadist it must have seemed as if defeat was snatched out of the jaws of victory. For the faithful Christian, especially the faithful Catholic the Islamic defeats were miraculous seen as the Hand of God working through His Son Jesus Christ and specifically His mother Mary.

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72 Responses to Why Is Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral In Al Qaeda's Crosshairs?

  • The news is saying Ramstein AB personnel are being advised to beware and not wear uniforms downtown.

    In addition to Our Blessed Mother’s aid in Lepanto and Vienna, the French intelligence service has been strong in counter-terror efforts.

    No US Catholic targets?

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  • “The defeat for the Turks at Vienna came about because of a last minute appearance on September 11 and 12, 1683, by the Polish cavalry under the leadership of Jan Sobiesksi. He had his men pray the Rosary before their lightning appearance.”

    The Polish winged-hussars were certainly an important part of the victory, but some credit has to be given to the Austrian infantry in the relief army, who fought their way into the Ottoman camp.

    “As for the battle, military tacticians still can’t figure out how the superior Ottoman Turkish Navy was defeated.”

    Prayer and superior firepower. The Holy League had more, and far more powerful, cannon than the Turks. The six sailing ships at the front of the Catholic formation that had been converted into firing platforms caused substantial damage to the Ottoman line.

    Niccolo Capponi has a great book on Lepanto, called Triumph of the West, that came out a couple of years ago.

  • Anyone interested should also read Yelena Chudinova’s novel “Mosque of Notre Dame 2048”. The English language version is not yet published but the Russian original is readily available.

  • Thank you for this post. I have a book on the battle of Lepanto that I have not yet read that I will now surely check out.

  • I re-read Chesterton’s fine poem LEPANTO every year at this time.

  • Last I heard the Cathedral of Notre Dame is owned by the French government, and that the politicos graciously let Catholics borrow state property under certain conditions alla revolucion.

  • This summer I traveled with Bob and Penny Lord as we traced the life of Saint Peter Julian Eymard and in Toulouse France on the hill over looking the river is a Shrine to our Lady where he visited often.
    Inside this shrine is the most magnificent mosaic of the Battle of Lepanto that exists. We plan to incorporate this mosaic in the program because of its importance to what happened then to keep it from recurring. Our Lady pray for us.

  • I would go back further to 732 and Charles Martellus “The Hammer”. Radical Islam simply can’t get past this one. If one believes the prophecies of hundreds of Catholic Saints (Catholic Prophecy by Yves DuPont), another French hammer is on the way. Deo Gratias

  • The Battle of Tours was on October 10th, 732 btw.

  • We need more people like you. Great post.

  • Every Catholic School in the world ought to have the pictures of Don Juan, King Jan Sobieski and Charles “The Hammer” Martel on the walls of every classroom (In a less prominent position than that of the Crucific, picture or Our Lady and the portrait of the Divine Mercy)

  • “Every Catholic School in the world ought to have the pictures of Don Juan, King Jan Sobieski…. on the walls of every classroom.”

    Check this out — I hope this link works for you:

    If this link doesn’t work, google “Rome of the West,” a blog by St. Louis resident Mark Scott Abeln, and click on his link to pictures of “Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception, Springfield, Illinois”.

    This is a stained glass window depicting Jan Sobieski kneeling on the battlefield to thank God for his victory over the Turks at Vienna. The windows here all show great moments in Catholic history both in Europe and in the United States, up to the 1920s when the cathedral was built.

  • Notre Dame is in the crosshairs as a chastisement because the French are the most wicked, promiscuous and blasphemous of the “Catholics”.

  • Aside from Mickey, great comments everyone. We certainly shouldn’t forget Charles Martel. Where would we be without him? I hope to get a chance to write about him, as well as the heroic martyrs of the Middle East, North Africa and southern Europe. Mickey, you might want to be a little more charitable with your posts for it sounds as if you are posting from some cave in Pakistan.

    Everyone let’s keep the comments coming and perhaps even throw out some names of famous Catholics who fought the good fight and perhaps were even martyred. Sadly, even among practicing Catholics, I am sure many of the saints and heroic figures mentioned in the article or in your comments, are not known.

  • good article but we forgot what happened at the battle of Covadunga Spain thats why the battle of Lampato happened. at Covadunga Spain angels were seen to fight on the side of Catholics on the verge of being annihilated.

  • in response to who owns Our Lady of Notre Dame guess who owns the tomb of St. Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross the European union.guess who owns the Sistine chapel the japan government.

  • Interesting article on the Blessed Virgin, however one must also note that Catholics and Christians are not at present at war with Islam, in fact the Vatican and many Islamic centers want to keep the peace – therefore I wouldn’t use history as to re-ignite the wars of religion – as many christian sects would love to see – however for your perusal I have cataloged most Marian intercessions in times of war – Vienna and Lepanto are only 2 out of at least 90 intercessions during well known battles, for this please see the following – the major war today is in the hearts and minds of men and women, the soul is the battle ground –
    click here
    .

  • Our firm decision is to work from this focused center: One man died for everyone. That puts everyone in the same boat. He included everyone in his death so that everyone could also be included in his life, a resurrection life, a far better life than people ever lived on their own.

    Because of this decision we don’t evaluate people by what they have or how they look. We looked at the Messiah that way once and got it all wrong, as you know. We certainly don’t look at him that way anymore. Now we look inside, and what we see is that anyone united with the Messiah gets a fresh start, is created new. The old life is gone; a new life burgeons! Look at it! All this comes from the God who settled the relationship between us and him, and then called us to settle our relationships with each other. God put the world square with himself through the Messiah, giving the world a fresh start by offering forgiveness of sins. God has given us the task of telling everyone what he is doing. We’re Christ’s representatives. God uses us to persuade men and women to drop their differences and enter into God’s work of making things right between them. We’re speaking for Christ himself now: Become friends with God; he’s already a friend with you.

    How? you ask. In Christ. God put the wrong on him who never did anything wrong, so we could be put right with God (2 Corinthians 5:14-21)

  • Another blow to Turkish pride was their defeat in Malta in 1565. Sicily and the Italian peninsula would have succumbed. Though it must be added that the Knights of Rhodes recently settled in Malta had done their utmost to provoke the Turks.

  • “French are the most wicked, promiscuous and blasphemous of the “Catholics”.

    Mickey, why such a heinous and false comment about French people? I feel peculiarly offended.
    Do you want I list all the sins that deserves an equal chastisement to America and England?
    Yes France will be chastised and America and all the west countries will be chastised too, due to their current apostasy.
    France was the most catholic country for centuries and was at the tip of the fight against Islam and heretics. She provided the greatest saints in the Chuch’s history.
    Without the French priests, monks, nuns and laymen who went in America long ago before the Brits, how many would be the Catholics here?

  • Jacques, thank you for reminding us about the great French saints. In my next article, I may write about them as well as Charles Martel. As for Mickey, I doubt he is English, American or Christian. Maybe he is posting from some cave in Pakistan.

    Mario, thank you for reminding us about the faithful in Malta who have been a beacon of hope and courage to the Christian world for centuries.

  • I don’t remember seeing this in the article, but Oct 7 is also the anniversary of US and allied forces taking care of things in Afganistan. I took great comfort that day, knowing the feast day and its history.

  • The claim the Catholic fleet was superior in firepower and size is secular lies and totally untrue. In fact Protestant countries, including Britain, either actively or tacitly supported the Islamic attempt to wipe out Catholicism. For this sin Queen Elizabeth I will be punished in hellfire as only Catholicism is the true Faith.
    I have no doubt Our Lady would truly have been weeping when England, her ‘Dowry’, sided with the enemies of the true Faith and the true Faith is Catholicism.

  • Bravo Jacques for speaking out for the Holy Kingdom of France. I study the History of Catholic France (is there any other history in France?) and this history is simply amazing. France is truly the Land of the Blessed Virgin, the Eldest Daughter of the Church and if we are to believe hundreds of Catholic Saints (and why wouldn’t we?), France will someday soon rule the ENTIRE world.

    France was given such rich gifts by God starting with the Faith which her missionaries then took around the world. France was blessed with the most incredible gifts of culture, natural resources, and people. However, the evils of rationalism, socialism, communism, and freemasonry flourished first in France and then spread around the globe like an virus. France also killed their divinely appointed King. Thankfully, by the grace of God, Luis XVII was NOT killed and the monarchy will return.

    For these crimes will France pay dearly and her people will turn back to the faith after this chastisement. France is the eldest daughter of the Church and she is supposed to set the example. There are some dark days ahead for France but peace will be restored with the lily returns to the throne.
    An excellent dvd about the Catholic history of France is “The Heart of the Lily” and “Where the World Begins”. It runs on EWTN every so often.

  • Brian Gregory, I am glad you reiterated my point that the Ottoman Turks had far superior naval firepower at Lepanto. It was Divine Providence accompanied by the courage of the Catholic Fleet that led to the Ottoman Turks defeat. I don’t see how anyone can get around this fact.

  • Seeing the images of King Jan Sobieski during a Google search, I couldn’t help but notice a similarity in looks with Lech Walesa when he was younger and had darker hair. As we all know, Walesa had a lot to do with the toppling of communism, apparently like Sobieski did with the Muslim marauders.

  • When I was in grade school ( Immaculate Heart of Mary ) I was the first to crown the new statue of the Blessed Mother. This reading has brought me back to her. Thank you.

    John Claypool

  • I’m sorry Pax Christi of Bakersfield but Lech Walesa had nothing whatsoever to do with the collapse of Communism. The secular press often associate the collapse of Soviet Communism with the American president of that time (Ronald Reagan),the British primeminister of the time (Mr. Thatcher)and Mr. Gorbachev.However,Mr. Reagan, Mrs. Thatcher and Mr. Gorbachev all acknowledge the role of the Holy Father in the collapse of Soviet Communism – neither they nor the Holy Father say ‘SOLIDARITY’ brought down Communism. It is claimed in the secular media which is athiestic the Holy Father helped fund ‘SOLIDARITY’, however, ‘SOLIDARITY’s’ uprising was put down in 1981.Soviet Communism did not fall until the Holy Father consecrated the world and especially Russia to her Immaculate Heart on 25 March 1984 (‘The Feast of the Annunciation’ or ‘Lady Day’). Mr. Gorbachev did not come to power until after then unless I am mistaken but that is irrelevant. The Soviet coup took place in August 1991,during the octave of the Assumption,but ended peacefully on the vigil of the Queenship of Mary (August 22nd).Those who use the ‘Extraordinary Form’ of the Mass will know August 22nd in the traditional calendar is the Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the vigil of which is on 21 August. Mr. Gorbachev about the USSR officially on 25 December 1991. Our Blessed Mother told the shepherd children at Fatima in 1917 the Bolshevik (Communist) uprising would take place one year before it did (in 1918). She also promised if Russia was consecrated to her Immaculate Heart there would be peace. Russia was and there has been peace between Russia and the west, however,to save many souls Our Blessed Mother asked for the Five First Saturdays’ Devotion.

    Referring to England – England was called ‘Mary’s Dowry’ or ‘Our Lady’s Dowry’ because there was a large shrine to Our Lady at Walsingham in Norfolk with a replica of the Holy House. This vision was seen by Lady Richeldes de Faverches in AD1061. The shrine was destroyed by Henry VIII,however, three shrines were built there in the early 1900s.
    An Anglican shrine http://www.walsinghamanglican.org.uk/,for history see http://www.walsinghamanglican.org.uk/the_shrine/the_story_so_far.htm;an Orthodox shrine which is contained in the Anglican shrine http://www.westernorthodox.com/walsingham and the Catholic shrine http://www.walsingham.org.uk/romancatholic/ see history http://www.walsingham.org.uk/romancatholic/history.html
    In fact many events and services are truly oecumenical with members of other Christian denominations taking part as well.

    There is also the Shrine of Our Lady of the Taper in Wales http://www.ourladyofthetaper.org.uk/

  • My other comment are taken from my blog on MYSPACE.

    ‘NOTIFICATION: ‘CHRISTIAN CONCERN FOR THE BENEFIT OF CHURCH AND NATION’ has launched it’s campaign ‘NOT ASHAMED’ http://www.notashamed.org.uk/ calling on all Christians to wear the symbol of our Faith – the Cross or the ‘NOT ASHAMED’ emblem especially on national ‘NOT ASHAMED DAY’ which is on Wednesday 1st December 2010

    I hope all believers, throughout the world, irrespective of their denomination, rich or poor, famous or unknown will visit their website, offer their support and wear the Sign of our Faith and if possible the ‘NOT ASHAMED’ emblem on ‘NOT ASHAMED DAY’ – Wednesday 1st December 2010.’

    Please consider doing this and letting everyone know about this UK event which I hope will go global.

    My other ‘MYSPACE’ blog I would like to draw your attention to is:
    ‘MAKING OUR FAITH MORE VISIBLE: I hope all believers will consider making their faith more visible by making the Sign of the Cross, saying ‘”God bless you”‘ and if possible wearing a cross or crucifix. Please read the Archbishop of Westminster’s 24/09/2010 ‘PASTORAL LETTER’ http://www.rcdow.org.uk/diocese/default.asp?content_ref=3031

    Thank you

  • I cannot compare better the Lepanto victory but to that of Midway: The balance of strength was strongly in favour of the Japs and truly it was a MIRACLE that the Navy’s aircrafts could drop their bombs and their torpedoes onto the japanese carriers at the very moment when the japanese hunters couldn’t take off for momentary technical reasons (they were all being replaced their bombs for torpedoes) to protect their carriers.

  • Mario, the defeat of the Turks against Malta in 1565 was also a miracle since the Turkish troops were half a million vs 30000 Malta’s knights and soldiers.
    But they were much helped by a bubonic plague outburst that occured among the turks.
    This makes me remind of the capture of Malta by the french troops of Napoleon 2 centuries later in a couple of weeks. Then the knights of Malta were only the shadows of themselves.

  • “The claim the Catholic fleet was superior in firepower and size is secular lies and totally untrue.”

    I never said the Catholic fleet was larger. The Turks had more ships. But the Holy League had much greater firepower. Capponi does an extensive analysis of the armament on the different types of ships present. The Catholic fleet was more technologically advanced, which people probably find hard to believe because of the disinformation they have been fed on the Church and science.

    “Brian Gregory, I am glad you reiterated my point that the Ottoman Turks had far superior naval firepower at Lepanto. It was Divine Providence accompanied by the courage of the Catholic Fleet that led to the Ottoman Turks defeat. I don’t see how anyone can get around this fact.’

    Because it’s not a fact. The use of the six Galleasses at the front of the Catholic formation and the devastating firepower they produced had a tremendous impact on the course of the battle. That was part of the plan put together by the Catholic leaders. Give the men who plannned and fought the battle some credit.

  • “Give the men who planned and fought the battle some credit.”

    I haven’t really heavily studied Lepanto or any of the other great Christendom vs. Muslim battles, but even if the Catholic fleet at Lepanto was not quite as outnumbered or outgunned as we have been told — does that really make its victory any less an answer to prayer? The same way that a healing accomplished through ordinary medicine may not be a bona fide miracle but is still just as much an answer to prayer as if it were.

  • “but even if the Catholic fleet at Lepanto was not quite as outnumbered or outgunned as we have been told — does that really make its victory any less an answer to prayer?”

    Don’t get me wrong. The Turks had more galleys, had veteran crews, and were led by very experienced commanders. It was a hard fought battle and certainly could have resulted in a disasterous defeat for the Catholic fleet.

    There are plenty of instances where prayer could be regarded as the difference in the multitude of events that made up the battle.

    Beyond the battle itself, it is almost a miracle that Pius V had been able to weld together the bickering factions that made up the Holy League to create a fleet that was able to defeat the virtually invincible Ottoman fleet.

  • On the contrary Brian English it is a fact. I don’t care what Capponi says.
    Victor Davis Hanson tells us Capponi announces at the outset of his book: ‘I also admit to having something of a soft spot for the Turks as a fighter,my great-great-grandfather,a Crimean War veteran, describing them as the best soldiers in the world.’ http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson071207.html

    Hanson,quoting Capponi,writes: ‘How did the Christians win the battle? They were probably outnumbered, both in ships and men. Lepanto was fought in Turkish-controlled waters near the Ottoman winter port at the mouth of the Gulf of Corinth opposite Patras, the present-day Naupaktos. The Venetians had lost Cyprus and were demoralized from increasingly bold attacks on the coast of Italy.’
    http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson071207.html

    First of all there is no ‘probably’ about it – we were outnumbered. Just by using the word ‘probably’ shows Capponi is attempting to ‘revise’ history. Will he dare say next the Turks were outnumbered?

    Yes,Capponi does mention the use of the six galleasses,however,I reject his claim and that of pseudo-science the galleasses would have been as successful even if God,through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin,had not willed it to be so.If the galleasses,were successful,it was because Our divine Redeemer willed it that way in response to the prayers of Our Blessed Lady because of the Masses, Rosaries and prayers offered for our victory.

    At least Capponi admits we ‘were outnumbered,both in ships and men’ and that ‘Lepanto was fought in Turkish-controlled waters near the Ottoman winter port at the mouth of the Gulf of Corinth opposite Patras, the present-day Naupaktos.’He also tells us ‘the Venetians had lost Cyprus and were demoralized from increasingly bold attacks on the coast of Italy.’http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson071207.html

    Hanson,again referring to Capponi’s book,tells us ‘The Christian League ….. was never really much more than the galley fleets of Spain, the Papal States, and Venice. England and France kept clear. Both had long ago cut their own deals with the Ottomans. Indeed, during the winter of 1542 the French had even allowed the Ottoman corsair Barbarossa the use of their harbor at Toulon to refit, as he conducted raids along the Italian coast.’http://www.victorhanson.com/articles /hanson071207.html

    Brian English and perhaps Niccolò Capponi seem to imply we could have won at the Battle of Lepanto without the aid of Our Lord and Our Lady – because of superior firepower. Interesting point. Why then were the Soviet Russians defeated by the Taliban in Afghanistan? Why on the three (or four occasions) in the past when Britain has been in Afghanistan have we been defeated? Why is it the west,in spite of it’s superior firepower and inspite of the secular media which claims to the contrary,did we lose in Iraq and are losing in Afghanistan?:
    (i) The Soviet Russians being athiest denied God.
    (ii)Britain had rejected the true Faith, the Catholic Faith,at the Protestant Rebellion (or Revolution).
    (iii)The western allies consisted of nations which had either become athiestic or rejected the true Faith (the Catholic Faith).
    The only way to win a war against terrorism is to ask the protection and help of Our Lord and Our Lady.

    9/11/2001 does have one thing in common with the Battle of Vienna – the date. The Battle of Vienna ran from 9/11/1683-9/12/1683.

  • “On the contrary Brian English it is a fact. I don’t care what Capponi says.”

    No, it’s not.

    “Brian English and perhaps Niccolò Capponi seem to imply we could have won at the Battle of Lepanto without the aid of Our Lord and Our Lady – because of superior firepower.”

    See my response to Elaine.

    “Why is it the west,in spite of it’s superior firepower and inspite of the secular media which claims to the contrary,did we lose in Iraq and are losing in Afghanistan?:”

    Wrong again.

    “(i) The Soviet Russians being athiest denied God.
    (ii)Britain had rejected the true Faith, the Catholic Faith,at the Protestant Rebellion (or Revolution).
    (iii)The western allies consisted of nations which had either become athiestic or rejected the true Faith (the Catholic Faith).”

    Last time I checked, the Taliban didn’t follow the True Faith either.

  • Brian Gregory you have a warped view of history and of reality.

    The Soviets and British were defeated by a race of people who lived and breathed war. As soon as there hands could support weight they were holding AK-47’s. That coupled with Afghanistans extremely inhospitible geography gives you a war that cannot be won. Alexander the Great and Geghis Khan, two of historys greatest conquerers were unable to defeat the Afghans, how do you expect us to?

    And to suggest that human beings werent capable of defeating the Turks at Lepanto as well as Vienna is frankly insulting to our species. To suggest that winning battles is “all in the hands of god” is bringing us back to a very medieval viewpoint which is honestly dangerous. You want to live in an age of faith? Go check out Naples in 1342 where they would burn you alive for questioning the Pope. Or if you want a modern example, check out Saudi Arabia and see how great religion is at running that country.

    By the way, your idea that Catholiscm is the “one true faith” only causes more conflict and is pretty much the reason why thousands of people died in the 1600’s. Accept peoples differences and move on or else your going to have serious problems in the future.

  • Steve what is the point of your post? Is it to advance ego, pride or the atheist cause? What is this nonsense about Naples and the pope in 1342? The Catholic faith was started by Jesus, who was both human and divine, quite unlike the beliefs systems started by the likes of Voltaire, Marx, Stalin or Mao. Whatever your likes or dislikes are concerning Christianity, during the first 300 years the Faith grew by love and compassion, all the while the faithful were being vicioulsy killed for the kindness they exhibited. There never was a peaceful era under the likes of Voltaire, Marx, Stalin or Mao.

    We have too many examples of the pride of man thinking he could do better than God. What a disaster; from the bloody French Revolution to the Soviet death camps, to Hitler’s death camps to Mao’s Culutal revolution to Pol Pot. They all thought they knew better than God and didn’t need God. Look at where it got them. There are over 100 million dead because of it. Keep that in mind, as the people who you mock on this site pray for you.

  • In 1342 (Rennaisance period) in Naples, which was aligned with the Papacy, you could be burned alive for heresy, which would be disagreeing with the Pope.

    Yes but the teachings of Jesus are just as unreasonable as those of Mao and Stalin. In fact if you look at Christianity’s fundamental teachings, there purely Communist! Lets make everyone equal and lets share everything. Draw your own conclusions.

    I love how Christians love to point out all the things “atheists” have done, but never what they have done. And I love how Christians always point out how great there matyrs were, dying at the hands of those evil romans. Then again, Christians have been killing atheists since they have been in control. In fact, once we see Christians begin to lose power we see them become more “moderate”. If they had any power they would be exactly like the Taliban or the Saudis.

  • In fact I’d like to point out I’m not an atheist, I believe in god just I feel what he and his chruch has to say is a bunch of crap

  • Steve: you bring up 1342 – the atheists in China and the USSR were murdering tens of millions in the 20th century, not 700 years ago! You blithely ignore that the Christian wars of religion ended hundreds of years ago, while the Communist atheists got “warmed up” during the French Revolution – killing many thousands in the Vendee – and really came into their own in the century just past, slaughtering 100 million. The Inquisition was child’s play compared to the gruesome evil committed by those who believe they will not have a God to answer to.

    Your equivalence of Saudi Muslims and Christians makes me believe you are woefully ignorant of the basic tenets of both religions. You are, in fact, a prime example of the suicidal tendencies that have infected the West. No other culture on earth tears down its founding religion and the building blocks of its culture the way Western atheists attack the foundation of their society. Atheistic society will not survive. In Europe, secularism is giving way to Islamic fundamentalism. If you are European, your children and grandchildren might very well find themselves longing for the good old days of “Christianists.” I promise you, Islam will not be as gentle with you as modern-day Christians are.

  • PS. A clarification to my post above: the murderous atheist ideologues of the French Revolution were not “Communists.” The French Revolution was, however, the birthplace of the modern Left and the Great Terror has been copied many times by those who wish to place “Man” at the center of the Universe, while not hestitating to slaughter all those humans who stand in the way of “Progress.”

    That includes Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, many of whom studied in Paris in the 1950’s and learned the lessons of the French Revolution well. Ah, yes, Steve, you atheists have really done well in the world. I’m sure that eventually you’ll get it right – maybe after your crew kills 100 more people or so.

    What does it matter to you anyway? After all, humans are only glorified animals in your book. It’s not like they have souls, or are endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights. Nope, according to an atheist, we’re no better than any other animals (just ask PETA). Why not kill the humans you deem troublesome? There can no higher morality in your book… no good reason NOT to murder people….

  • In fact I’d like to point out I’m not an atheist, I believe in god just I feel what he and his chruch has to say is a bunch of crap

    Goody for you, Steve-o! And you feel free to say it because you know darn well nobody is going to blow you up or issue a fatwa on you for insulting Catholics.

    My, my, what a brave fellow you are!

  • Donna V, excellent posts. It seems to me that Steve represents this sort of new (but very old) way of thinking that yes there is a God, but He’s not doing it my, so he’s wrong. Talk about hubris, pride and narcissism. Yet, isn’t this the same line of thinking we saw displayed in Lucifer when he said, “I will not serve!”

  • Ah but were they killing in the name of atheism? Did Stalin say “lets go kill all the christians because there christians?” No, he just killed people for his political goals, to turn Russia into a modern country and to unify it under the Soviet banner. In fact, Stalin promoted the Orthodox church as a source of Russian nationalism.

    You dont understand the context of the French Revolution, where the church literally had oppressed people for hundreds of years. Why wouldnt they slaughter all the priests then? If a priest had taxed your family to starvation, taken your house, then said you were going to hell, wouldnt you want to kill him too?

    The Saudi government is pretty much the way much of Europe was run until the 1700’s. The Church had all the power and didnt allow anyone to think or learn or anything. In fact once society starts to become secular (starting with the Rennaisance) the society begins to progress. Religion holds people back from realizing there full potiential.

    You dont understand that Christianity and communism are one in the same! Jesus taught communism and the early Christians practiced it. Our country wasnt founded on Christianity. The founding fathers detested it, I think Jefferson called it the “most digusting institution on earth”. Ben Franklin was in fact a Satanist. Look at our Constitution and then look at the Satanic bible and you’ll see some striking similaritys.

    I dont think people are glorified animals, in fact the opposite. I believe mankind is the greatest of things to ever come to this planet, it is Christian theology that makes people seem worthless and unimportant. We needed to be “rescued” and “saved” because we are scum and filthy and sinful. Everything we do is wrong. Humanity is fantastic, but Christianity by nature is pessimistic about it.

    Of course Catholics arent going to issue a fatwa (or Crusade in Christian terms) on me, but if they had any sort of real power they sure would. All religions are the same in the sense that there all intolerant once they are in charge.

    And what is your obsession with killing people? Just because I am non-religious doesnt mean I want to kill people. Perhaps you have some feelings toward ending anothers life, but are halted by the news they will go to hell after they die. Religion is a crutch for people who are fundamentally miserable and need something to make them feel good about themselves because they havent done anything of any importance.

  • The French Revolution Dave was planned and begun by the illuminized Masonic order in France and this is a fact.
    http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/frenchrevolution.html

  • A website that trafficks in conspiracy theories is not a fact site Brian

  • So ‘The New Encyclopedia Britannica’ does not deal in facts but you do and the Masons themselves are lying when they actually acknowledge they were behind it?:

    ”The New Encyclopedia Britannica’ tells us that in France there arose a political system and a philosophical outlook that no longer took Christianity for granted, that in fact explicitly opposed it… The brotherhood taught by such groups as the Freemasons, members of secret fraternal societies, and the Illuminati, a rationalist secret society, provided a rival to the Catholic sense of community.”‘

    The same website tells us: ‘Secret society researcher and author Nesta H. Webster was even more pointed, writing in 1924, “The Masonic book ‘A Ritual and Illustrations of Freemasonry’ contains the following passage, ‘The Masons… originated the Revolution with the infamous Duke of Orleans at their head.'”

    Still Steve you know best don’t you?

  • “Ah but were they killing in the name of atheism? Did Stalin say “lets go kill all the christians because there christians?” No, he just killed people for his political goals, to turn Russia into a modern country and to unify it under the Soviet banner. In fact, Stalin promoted the Orthodox church as a source of Russian nationalism.

    You dont understand the context of the French Revolution, where the church literally had oppressed people for hundreds of years. Why wouldnt they slaughter all the priests then? If a priest had taxed your family to starvation, taken your house, then said you were going to hell, wouldnt you want to kill him too?”

    In regard to Stalin, he waged a war of extermination against the Orthodox Church explicitly because they were Christian. The war entered a period of remission during World War II when Stalin needed the support of Christians for the war effort. Agressive and murderous atheism was always a hallmark of the Bolshevik movement.

    As for the Church under the Old Regime in France, it had almost no secular power, and was noted for its good works in helping the poor. The war waged on the Church by the French revolutionary regime was massively unpopular in France which was the main reason that Napoleon as First Consul engineered a concordat with Pope Pius VII in 1801.

  • The Church had all the power and didnt allow anyone to think or learn or anything.

    Statements like that indicate that ignorance is alive and well and that the Church cannot be held culpable for it.

  • Steve asks: “What is your obsession with killing people?”

    Now that’s rich. Steve pops in here, accuses the Church of murder and then, when it is pointed out that secular regimes have murdered far more people, turns around and accuses us of having an “obsession with killing people. It’s always funny to me that people who attack religion for its’ “irrationality” are seldom models of reason and logic themselves.

    Steve, who thinks the Church “didnt allow anyone to think or learn or anything” apparently never learned that the modern university system was founded by the Church, as were hospitals. Do you think the Sorbonne or Oxford and Cambridge started out as secular institutions? Have you ever wondered why the vast majority of hospitals in this country have (or once had) some sort of religious affiliation? I realize that’s not the sort of thing that occurs to someone who apparently has learned his history from Bill Maher and Jon Stewart, but you really should try broadening your reading a little (if you read). You might find that Church history is a bit more complex than the simplistic cartoon you have your head.

    Finally, ah ha, the old “religion is a crutch” accusation. Gee, we’ve never heard that one before! Clearly, you’re not miserable and you do many things of great importance – like seeking out Catholic blogs so you can berate believers. My, what a highly significant existence you lead, Steve – unlike, say, a devout Catholic physician friend of mine who spends time working in Haiti as a medical missionary every year. No, attempting to destroy the faith of other people by is doing so much more for humanity, Steve.

  • Ha! Its obvious you Christians have misenterperted my statement. You continued to mention how it would be cool for me and my “crew” to kill people, as well as my apparent lack of morality which would lead me to kill people because they werent “worthy”. After all, all atheists are essentially bad people who would rape and murder if they had the chance.

    Yea thats great, but who were those unviersitys open to? Only the rich. Even earlier universities were used as priest training centers. They were by no means open to all, which you see only happening when secular authorities took over education. Religion is always exclusive.

    Haha more atheist cliches! Yea sure I dont have anything to be proud of, except I’m getting a Army commission in June and begin work in the Intelligence branch. I’m going to be making desicions that can potientially effect the foreign policy of our country. Yea sure I live an unfufilled life.

  • God help the Army if an ill educated bigot like you is actually receiving a commission. By the way, a second lieutenant doesn’t get within shouting distance of having any impact on this country’s foreign policy. Oh, and I hope you are covering your internet tracks well. Military Intelligence background checks tend to be very comprehensive.

    In regard to Universities in the Middle Ages, poor scholars regularly studied at them. Your knowledge of history is as rudimentary as your spelling.

    “After all, all atheists are essentially bad people who would rape and murder if they had the chance.”

    Not all atheists, but I wouldn’t lay any bets on you, considering your belief that it was fine that thousands of priest were murdered during the French Revolution.

    Piece of free advice: stop acting like a jackass and actually do some hard study of both history and theology.

  • Wow so I’m suddenly not qualified to lead soldiers because I dont agree with you? When have I ever said anything bigoted, I came here simply to inform Mr. Gregory that he was wrong on his warped history views.

    I think the real bigots in this community are YOU. Ever since I got here I’ve been talked to like a child, which I am not at all surprised because from exprience most Christians treat non-religious this way.

    And I never condoned the French priest killings, I merely stated I understood why the French would do that.
    Keep letting religion to rule your life, see how much you enjoy it with a god who wont even let you use your free will

  • Steve, why don’t you go back to HuffPo or Daily Kos or I Think Church Sux. com or some other site where nobody will argue with or challenge your goofy and semi-literate assertions. You’ve been talked to like a child here because you write and think like one – a nasty, bigoted one. You sound like a 14 year old who knows nothing and thinks he knows everything.

    As Donald noted, Army standards really are going down the tubes. I thought a basic knowledge of the English language was required of our military officers. You do know that many, many servicemen and women are believers, don’t you? I feel very bad for any enlisted Christian men and women who end up under the command of a such a narrow-minded bigot.

    “Keep letting religion to rule your life, see how much you enjoy it with a god who wont even let you use your free will”

    You have us confused with Calvinists. Do you know what Calvinism is? Do you know how it differs from Catholicism? No, you are ignorant of just how ignorant you are, which is why your attempts to “instruct” us are so risible.

    Good night to you.

  • “I think the real bigots in this community are YOU. Ever since I got here I’ve been talked to like a child,”

    You are a child Steve K. You are a high school student apparently at a Catholic high school. Unfortunately the money that your parents spent to send you to parochial school has been wasted, and you have developed a hatred for the Church. Oh well, you are young and have a lot of life ahead of you. Study hard, work hard and see a bit of the world after you enlist in the Army and check back here in a few years. I’ll be interested to see what you have learned. Good luck to you.

  • Donald, if Steve K. really is a high school kid, I have been a bit too harsh on him. I said similarly silly things when I was 18 (I cringe when I recall coming out of the movie theater after seeing “Reds” and saying “I think I’m a Communist.” That was, as I’m sure you can guess, before I actually knew something about Communists.)

    Your advice is sound. I hope Steve follows it.

  • I remember some of the things I said and did in High School and College Donna and I cringe even three decades later.

  • My last name starts with a C, what are you talking about? I did indeed go to Catholic school and that is indeed where I lost my faith but I have no idea where you got the idea that I’m still in high school.

    I think its disturbing that Mr. McClarey actually went looking for me online, but if you actually think my real name is Steve you are sadly mistaken.

    I am now leaving this discussion. Goodbye Christians, get off the train before it crashes into the mountains.

  • I do wish Dr Charles Krauthammer could take a look at “Steve’s” posts. If “Steve” had went to a liberal Catholic high school, he could have been turned off by their ideoloy and thought Catholicism as being silly. However, “Steve” seems quite certain of God’s existence, but questions God’s ways. I wonder if Steve went to a pretty orthodox minded Catholic school and either realizes a flaw in his own character and doesn’t want to change it, or was of another faith tradition (outside Christinaity) and refuses to acknowledge the truth of what he was taught.

    Whatever the case, I will pray for Steve and if you are reading this Steve know that we all have flaws. God points them out to us so we can become better human beings. Please keep this in mind and know that people are praying for you that haven’t the slightest clue of how you look, where you live and what you think of them. They pray for you because an interior calling brought up by their faith beckons them to pray for people they have never met, but whom they care about nonetheless. They do so because for centuries the saints and simple believers asked God to help those they never met as well following the teachings and practices of Jesus and His Apostles, along with those who initially persecuted the faith, but came into the light like St Paul.

  • Steve, you didn’t “lose” your Catholic faith at a Catholic School, you never had any faith, perhaps our Lord will give you some soon. But in the meantime please write nothing further. Your inane arguments about communism are quite dull. Just skimming your first two posts I can see you’re one of those who literally believe “religion has killed more people than all war in history.” This liberal balderdash you heard somewhere along the way during your liberal education and now you come here to talk about the truth as if you know. But the reality for all to see here is that you don’t know anything but the brainwashing bs taught in liberal schools.

    If you actually knew anything about the French revolution, for example, you’d understand that the average French person at the time of the revolution had a higher standard of living than any country in Europe and probably the world. But, like the good communist that you are (based on your writings), never let an opportunity pass to distort the facts and pedal lies.

  • “My last name starts with a C, what are you talking about? I did indeed go to Catholic school and that is indeed where I lost my faith but I have no idea where you got the idea that I’m still in high school”

    Steve, when you comment on this blog and we have your ip address and your e-mail address, it takes no great skill to learn quite a bit about people who contact us. I looked you up because of your statement about being commissioned in the army which I found hard to believe. If you are going to troll on blogs, truly a waste of time, you need to conceal your internet footprints with greater skill.

  • I suggest Steve you grow up. When the true and only Church God founded, the Catholic Church,was the Church in England before Henry VIII dared think he could make himself Pope by picking what he should and shouldn’t believe(just as you sound like you are doing)there were many chantry chapels set up in peoples’ wills to offer the Mass for their souls after death and the wealthier as part of their Mass bequests left an amount to help the poor and needy. Attached to these chantry chapels were schools to educate poor children. It was only after the 1600s, under Protestantism,that children were indoctrinated with anti-Catholic hate and teaching poor children was thrown out in favour of ‘the work house’. Perhaps you should read Charles Dickens’ novel ‘Oliver Twist’which shows how Protestant Churches really treated orphan children.
    In fact it was a Church of England clergyman in real life, the Revd. Thomas Malthus, who speaking of the poor and starving,who said ‘”the poor should die and decrease the surplus population.”‘However, this Anglican clergyman was Satan’s fool as there was not a surplus population and there never will be.
    In his short story ‘A Christmas Carol’ Dickens has Scrooge say this at the beginning – only later is it revealed to him by the Ghost of Christmas Present, quoting Scrooge back at him,that it was not for him to decide who should live or die (an arrogance of the wealthy).

    Thanks Dave,however,as I will show later while Communism is athiestic Karl Marx,it’s principal founder,as Marxism is just another word for Communism was not an athiest but a Satanist intent on bringing the world to ruin,not bettering it,who knowing he would not go to Heaven because he had chosen to side with Satan so would end up in the Abyss (Hell) which is where he wanted all mankind to go. This is in his own writings. I’ll put a link to some of them later to prove it as I never make statements unless I can back what I can say.

    As for you Steve,if you are at a school labelling itself ‘Catholic’,I wonder if your parents know the anti-Catholic,unhistorical,pro-Communist,pro-Protestant drivel you’re being taught because whoever is teaching it shouldn’t even be in a ‘public’ school (state school)teaching.

  • So,Steve, which is it? Are you at school or in the military? And if you are not a practising Catholic what are you? Lapsed Catholic,a convert to another Christian denomination or another religion!!!! Or are you an agnostic or athiest?

    I believe we have the right to know.

  • I have little doubt that Steve lost his faith at a Catholic high school. Our local Catholic high school works hard at doing this. That way, when they get to Catholic colleges, they are primed for becoming Communists.

  • I’m facebook friends with a few old high school classmates (a Jesuit school) that are defiantly atheist. Looking back on my high school education, this is not surprising.

  • A couple of points to consider: Who knows what if any truth came out of Steve’s keyboard. I have no idea if he is in high school (public or private) is in the military, or wants to be in the military. However since he says he believes God exists and still hates His ways, then we know one thing for surel Jesus said the evil one was the master of all lies.

    Another point as far as Catholic schools goes, I have worked in them and worked as an administrator in a diocesan office. There are some bad ones, but we shouldn’t discount the fact that there are some good ones. I can tell you in some of the schools I have been at recently, the religious instruction and religious curriculum is far superior than when I was a student in the 80s. Order run schools probably have the bigesst disparity. Sadly as Paul pointed out there are far too many Jesuit schools that are known for their high academic standards (which is all the parents care about) and goofy “Zen” oriented religious classes.

    A rather new phenomena to Catholic education are the students who are far more orthodox than their parents. They are serious about their faith and eagerly go to Sunday Mass (and sometimes Daily Mass at school) while their parents nurse a hangover. A recent study showed that those under 25 who go to Mass are more orthodox in their views (especially supporting the Church’s teachings on life) than their parents or grandparents.

    Yet, far too many Catholic youth don’t go to Mass because after having them baptized their parents never taught them thing one about Catholicism. I am increasingly meeting young people who say they were baptized Catholic but never went to Catholic school, CCD, and have only a vague memory of going to Mass for someone’s wedding or funeral. However, I think it should be pointed out that many of the new, more orthodox priests being ordained did go to Catholic school and want to correct the abuses that took place in the Church in the time of their parents generation.

  • I’m not in the military I’m training for the military, I get my commission in June.

    I’m a maltheist. I believe that god is a cruel and unjust and is therefor unworthy of my worship. He is a liar and a thief. I realize worshiping god only gives him more glory, glory which he does not deserve. It does not benefit me in any way to be with god or follow his base teachings.

    Thats my opinion

  • Steve this might be the most ridiculous post I have ever read. You aren’t smart enough to know the history of all the events you recite, and you are all of 18, 19, 20 21, maybe 22. In addition, you hide behind a false name and then you tell us that you are smarter than God and think that He’s doing it all wrong? Steve this is akin to a child who is barely able to mouth a few words telling a Nobel Prize Winner in Physics that he’s wrong. Please tell us that you are yanking our chain. You can’t be this ignorant.

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Suspected Al Qaeda Plot to Kill Pope Benedict XVI Foiled In London By Scotland Yard

Friday, September 17, AD 2010

A sophisticated attack to kill Pope Benedict XVI was appearently foiled in London by Scotland Yard. The Middle Eastern Intelligence website Debka, normally on top of such matters reports that the attack was foiled at the last possible moment.  Several men are in custody. Obviously this is still a breaking news story. However, while many people will say the Holy Father and the police were lucky, the faithful look to providence as the answer. How ironic that this is the feast day of the famous German Saint Hildegard. Something to ponder on this momentous day. May God keep our Holy Father healthy!  Below you will find my article that appeared last week which discussed Al Qaeda’s little reported on war against the Catholic Church.  UPDATE: Police in London have released those arrested.

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43 Responses to Suspected Al Qaeda Plot to Kill Pope Benedict XVI Foiled In London By Scotland Yard

  • First heard about it this am on NPR though there was no mention of Al Qaeda or Muslims. I thought it was those dreaded Amish terrorists again.

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  • I have not heard any confirmation that it was Al Qaeda. There is one report that they are Algerians, but nothing is confirmed. We should wait and see before blaming Al Qaeda.

  • Michael, Debka is reporting the Al Qaeda link. I linked to their story in the article. They are the premier intelligence site in the world, which is good enough for me.

  • Didn’t know there were Algerian Amish.

  • Does anybody know when Obama is scheduled to give his next: “Islam is a religion of peace” speech?

  • P.V., don’t confuse Islam with Al Qaeda. That is just plain ignorant.

  • I think Al Qaeda members consider themselves Muslim. Not all Muslims are extremists but some are and there is justification in the Koran for their extremism.

  • Your Debka link isn’t working…at least not when I tried it.

  • take it back…I tried it again and now it works!

  • Debka is not what Dave claims it is; indeed, if you look around, there is indications of it being a propaganda organization, nothing else but that.

  • Scott,.Don’t be so naive/politically correct.

  • Henry, I want to thank you for this post. It shows how little you know. Whether you like it or nor, Debka is made of former intelligence officials. Not only does the US and western intelligence officials read it religously, but so do many countries who are not so friendly to the West, like Iran, Syria etc.

    Debka won Forbes Best of the Web Award. In addition, it spoke of 9-11 style attack on NYC in 2000, one year before the event. In addition, it predicted the 2006 Hezbollah War against Israel months before it occured.

    Perhaps you can rationalize the world in your own Big Government-Kumbaya style parallel universe, but this is not how the world really works.

  • Whether or not people read them is different from whether or not their assessments are true, and whether or not they have been caught misrepresenting facts for the sake of propaganda. They have been caught doing this. They are not “the most credible.” People read all kinds of non-credible sources, because even those sources get something, even if their bias, interpretation, and presentation ends up being false.

    Many also question if they are “former intelligence officials.”

    Your response, therefore, does not deal with the problems behind Debka, and why they are not as absolute a source as you (and many others who do not have an ability to judge credibility of sources) are making them out to be. Just because you read people on the net, like WorldNetDaily, approving of their work does not mean their work is free from an agenda (and many sources which approve of them also have an agenda).

    I love how you end up talking about “big government.” I thought you were orthodox and followed the Vatican. Guess you follow a cafeteria style Catholicism when it comes to government. The Church is not opposed to “big government” and much of its teachings require “big government” intervention.

    BTW will you stop using every post of yours as an advertisement for your book? Really, you would do yourself better if your posts didn’t read like a marketing scheme.

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  • Henry,

    Dabbling in politics again? Tsk tsk.

    The Church most certainly does not “require big government intervention” – that is a delusion, a fantasy, cooked up by power-hungry authoritarians who lust for control over other people’s lives, who have no respect for the free will and dignity of persons.

    The Church requires that each of us consistently choose to do what is good in every sphere of life – social, political, and economic. And she absolutely requires that the state play a LIMITED role in overseeing this process, for, as Leo XIII said of state intervention: “things move and live by the spirit inspiring them, and may be killed by the rough grasp of a hand from without.”

    I know the idea of people spontaneously doing good without being told by a man in a uniform that they have to is an alien, strange, foreign concept to a bona fide statist control-freak, but it can happen and it will happen when people like you give it a chance and let go of your ultra-Calvinist pessimism about the general and inherent propensity of man to always be evil.

    Oh, and Dave – thanks for the plug again! Great work as always.

  • Really, you would do yourself better if your posts didn’t read like a marketing scheme.

    Awww, don’t be mad that his book will be read by more than three bored theology professors.

  • Awww, don’t be mad that his book will be read by more than three bored theology professors, who pretended to read the book.

  • The police aren’t saying anything about it and they’re still arresting people. Regardless of what one website says, I think we should wait for confirmation.

    BTW will you stop using every post of yours as an advertisement for your book? Really, you would do yourself better if your posts didn’t read like a marketing scheme.

    I never noticed this until the Catholic Fascist made fun of it. While I agree it does seem to be overkill at times, quite frankly if I spent the time to write a book that got published, I’d be talking about it every post I got too. My feeling is that those mysterious figures behind the Catholic Fascist secretly wish they could find someone to publish their own books.

  • I’ve long suspected the green-eyed monster of having taken possession of various personages at certain websites.

  • Uh, Henry, is it really necessary to so often invite conflict through the construction of straw men?

  • Joe thanks for the kind words about my article. I also appreciate the support of everyone else who came to my defense. You know I was able to watch the Holy Father for a bit and interestingly enough, he warned the assembled audience about the very thing Joe mentioned in his post. I then came back and was treated to Henry’s screed. I know the fortunes of the political and religious left have plummeted as of late. However after reading Henry’s childish rant all I can say is; goodness how the mighty have fallen.

  • The official news release makes no mention of Al Qaeda and if they do, remember, Al Qaeda was an
    invention/creation of the CIA during the Soviet-
    Afghanistan war in 1979. Al Qaeda translated into
    english means ‘data base’. Keep falling for the
    Nazi propaganda as a pretext to keep these illegal
    wars continuing using Muslims as fictitious enemies.

  • Mike S – I’ve always been curious. When making tin foil hats, what is your preferred brand of manufacture? These Reynolds ones just don’t seem to hold muster.

  • Its not the brand. You need thickness. You need heavy duty tin foil.

  • “Its not the brand. You need thickness. You need heavy duty tin foil.”

    De-magnetized of course.

  • The problem is you can’t get real tin foil these days. The government conspired with the ALCOA machine to supplant tin foil with aluminum. Everyone knows that tin offers far superior wave blocking ability and has the best weight to blocking ratio, which is why lead foil never really took off.

  • The world media is hiding the identity and nationality of these terrorists in a very sugestive way. Only the britanic Guardian mentioned they are believed to be muslim and algerians.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/17/five-arrests-pope-terror-threat

  • Its not the brand you need. Its the thickness….

    And of course, thickness of the skull is also a tremendous help. 🙂

  • I do hope you will now write as lengthy a piece on how all the men have been released without charge…
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11360568

  • “The six – who work as street cleaners in Westminster – were arrested after they were allegedly overheard in the works canteen discussing an attack.

    Police refused to confirm reports that the men were joking, saying they had a duty to investigate.”

    And perhaps the authorities will release just what the six men were saying when they allegedly “joked” about murdering the Pope. It would also be nice to have their names so that information can be obtained as to their backgrounds and any terrorist affiliations they might have.

  • James you have a rather interesting post. First of all, I did not write a lengthy piece describing the arrest. I believe it was one paragraph. At the end of that paragraph, I noted that I would repost much of a previous article I wrote about Al Qaeda’s War on the Catholic Church. Is that to what you are objecting? It is a factual article using Al Qaeda’s own statements. As Don has already pointed out, the arrests were not without good reason.

  • I have no doubt that Al Qaeda would love to kill or get their hands on the pope in some way. Bojinka was in many ways the predecessor or inspiration for 9/11.

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  • Algerian street-cleaners? Better to get some Christians or Hindus from the Phillipines and India instead. They at least would be grateful for the opportunity to make a living and will not keep the security forces busy.

  • Dave – thanks for your reply.

    Read your first paragraph again in the light of the fact that all the men have been released without charge, along with your headline. ‘Al-Qaeda plot’, ‘sophisticated attack’, ‘foiled at the last possible moment’. All these statements are completely untrue and that is what I am objecting to. It was a rush to judgement based on some very precautionary arrests. Do you not believe in innocent until proven guilty?

    Also, since you claim Debka are ‘normally on top of such matters’, it is interesting to note they haven’t yet reported all the men were released without charge. You may have to work out for yourself why you think that might be.

  • James, thank you for your reply. I really enjoy these types of exchanges and I find them very fruitful and revealing. Yes of course I believe in innocent until proven guilty. I didn’t draw this terrorism link out of thin air. As I noted before, Debka is the most widely read and believed intelligence site out there, they have a Forbes Best of the Web Award to prove it. Now with respect to the Debka article, you may have read Donald’s post about the street cleaners joking about harming the Pope. In light of this news and the continuing Al Qaeda threat and presense in the UK, Debka reported some news that many believed was inevitable, another Al Qaeda attack in Britain.

    Now I have a question for you. With all of the many things one can post about on a Catholic site, why would you post so quickly in making sure that Al Qaeda was not blamed for a possible attack? Do you believe Al Qaeda has an agenda against Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular, why or why not?

  • Dave – My original point was simply about the recent arrests in London, not about the wider article.

    Debka wrote: ‘the five Algerians reached their London rendezvous overnight to prepare for their operation’. This is clear fiction. I’m sorry you believe this is ‘premier intelligence’. (I have to agree with Henry on this point.)

    I live in the UK so was aware of how our media was (generally) extremely cautious about these arrests. So where did Debka get this completely untrue info about a rendezvous from? And my point remains – why have they not told their readers that all these people have been released without charge. If they are so reliable, why do you think they have they not been honest enough to bring their readers up to date?

    I’m pleased to hear you say you believe in innocent until proven guilty. However, if you read your headline and opening paragraph you do appear to have jumped to conclusions. For example, on what basis did you call this a ‘sophisticated plot’?

    As for Donald’s comment – these guys were innocent. The cops would not have let them go after one day if they thought there was anything serious here (in UK, they can be held for 4 weeks without charge). In that case, neither Donald nor anyone else has the right to know their names.

    I’m sorry but I don’t have the time to go through everything else in your article. However, I note, for example, your mention of an Al-Qaeda plot to blow up St Petronio’s. Your link goes to a Guardian article which says it was a ‘suspected’ plot. Can you link to newspaper reports of the successful prosecution of the people involved in this ‘plot’?

  • James, I know that through the years there have been many arrests in Italy concerning jihad. Off hand, I have no idea who or how many were arrested, nor what their sentences might have been. However, living in he UK, you should know better than I that the Guardian is hardly the type of publication that is often sympathetic to the views and goals of the Catholic Church.

  • Dave – sorry you didn’t feel able to answer the other questions I asked. However, on the point you did reply to, you said in the article that there ‘WAS an Al-Qaeda plot’ to blow up the church in question. In your reply you said you don’t know ‘what their sentences might have been’. That assumes there was a successful conviction. But you don’t produce any evidence that anyone was prosecuted for such a plot. One vague article pointing to an arrest proves nothing (as the Pope arrests shows).

    And I note that Debka STILL hasn’t written about the six men being released without charge, three days on.

  • James, this is really become intriguing to me. Of all the issues one can write about on a Catholic site, you seem quite annoyed about an intelligence site. Now I have no idea how Debka handles these sorts of matters, they are not a news site, they are an intelligence site, and the most respected site at that. After all, they did win the Forbes Award. However, you seem upset that the arrest of a few men joking about the death of the pope is a great form of human injustice, even though they were set free. Surely, you will admit that in places like Egypt they may very well be in prison for years, for this sort of offense. Then you refer back to the very liberal Guardian article, a publication that is hardly a friend of the Catholic Church. They print an article about a plot in Italy and you want to see Italian arrest and court records.

    In the above article which I wrote, I linked to another article in which Dr. Ayman Al Zawahiri threatens “the infidel,” and the “lukewarm Muslim” as he so often does. He also goes on to demand that Pope Benedict convert to Islam. Seeing as that there was a highly sophisticated attack in London some five years ago, as well as others in the UK that were foiled at the last minute, do you believe Al Qaeda poses a threat to the UK and the Western world in general?

As The September 11 Anniversary Nears, A Review Of Al Qaeda's Little Reported-On War Against The Catholic Church

Tuesday, September 7, AD 2010

While most of the world mourns the nearly three thousand who were brutally murdered by Al Qaeda on September 11, 2001, many assume all of Al Qaeda attacks stem from a warped political motive. Most may not be aware that since the day of its inception many of Al Qaeda’s targets have involved the Catholic Church and her holy sites.

Less than one year before the September 11, 2001 attacks Al Qaeda was planning a spectacular Christmas attack at the large and historic Strasbourg Cathedral in France. While this attack was foiled, an attack on the Catholic cathedral in Jakarta, Indonesia was not thwarted, resulting in the deaths of several churchgoers and those on a nearby street.

Yet, five years before this brazen plan, an even more sinister plan was nearly carried out by the chief planner of the September 11, 2001 attacks, Khalid Sheik Muhammad, which he coordinated to coincide with the visit of Pope John Paul II to Manila for World Youth Day in January of 1995. The plan called for the pontiff to be killed along with countless of the faithful who was planning to see him in Manila that day. Incidentally, some speculate that the crowd that came to see the Polish pontiff that day was nearly the same size that came to see his funeral some ten years later. Some speculate it may have been the largest religious gathering at one place in our known history, some five to seven million strong.

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21 Responses to As The September 11 Anniversary Nears, A Review Of Al Qaeda's Little Reported-On War Against The Catholic Church

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  • Excellent article, Dave!!

    While I was aware of some of what you stated, your post gave me both further and great insight into Al Qaeda’s war against the Catholic Church. I will be passing this along. God Bless.

  • Good paper. Keep up your good work.
    We are, and have always been, in a “moral and
    religious” war. That war is between those that
    believe in (faith in) the God of the Bible that
    gave us individual UNalienable rights of life
    and liberty vrs. those that believe in arbitrary man made collective INalienable privilages.
    Read more on the link below. Begin with the
    article on the “paper” menu and then review the
    references.

    http://www.unalienableproject.com/

  • Thanks for putting this out for everyone to know.

  • I can’t thank you enough for this post. My husband and I will spend Saturday at a seminar on spiritual warfare by Fr. Corapi. You make the case for warfare very real. God Bless you in your work.

  • Thanks for this article. You are very brave to voice out facts that most Catholics could only whisper. God bless.

  • Sorry David, dig deeper in your research please..Al Quaeda was founded by, trained by, and still bankrolled by the CIA…The CIA is in cahoots with the Mossad and the English CIA…they are a tool of the conspirators that are out for total control of the world…at the highest levels they worship satan and are out for the total destruction of Christian Civilization..they may win but only for a short time…lets start telling the truth about world events…thanks…Rob Epperly/Author.Sons of Thunder.

  • Step one: turn off your TV
    Step two: meditate on the Gospel daily.
    Step three: stay out of debt…zero credit cards..
    Step four: simplify, live within your means..give away your possesions to the poor.
    Step five: (should be step one) reconciliation and holy communion.
    Step six: holy reading.
    STep seven: pray that all Christians unite against this juggernaut anti-christ we call illuminati. Unite all Christians against satan..

  • St. Michel the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil, may God rebuke him we humbly pray, and do thou o prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, throw into hell satan and all evil spirits that prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls, amen.

  • David, please submit this to Columbia magazine. I have shared it with my immediate fellow Knights of Columbus. Note: Operation Bojinka was hatched in Manila in 1996, the same year that the training camp at Salman Pak Iraq opened. reporter Jayna Davis recorded Terry Nichols wife saying how he had visited persons in Manila at that time.

  • “Sorry David, dig deeper in your research please..Al Quaeda was founded by, trained by, and still bankrolled by the CIA…The CIA is in cahoots with the Mossad and the English CIA…they are a tool of the conspirators that are out for total control of the world…at the highest levels they worship satan and are out for the total destruction of Christian Civilization..they may win but only for a short time…lets start telling the truth about world events…thanks…Rob Epperly/Author.Sons of Thunder.”

    Your tinfoil hat needs loosening Robert.

  • i might go with trained by and bankrolled by, but not founded by, the CIA isn’t 1600 years old….

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  • Thanks for the kind words everyone. As for those who spew nutty conspiracy theories; unless we suffer from mental illness, we will be held accountable for the crazy things we say.

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  • The Crusades were small defensive actions fought by amateurish Christian soldiers who truly felt they were answering the call of God. They were hardly in it for the gold and the girls that so many ridiculous movies and research articles have asserted.

    True. Eleventh-century Europeans making war “for the gold and the girls” accompanied William the Conquerer in 1066. He led his armies west, away from the Holy Land.

  • “Your tinfoil hat needs loosening Robert.”

    I’ll say. You know, I always wonder at these people who think the Mossad – an admittedly crack team working for a country the size of a potato chip – run the world. For one thing, the number of the Jews on the entire planet is something like 14 million. That doesn’t even amount to a Chinese statistical rounding error. The Mossad is a teensy tiny fraction of a teensy tiny fraction. When gentiles whisper about “the Jews” or “the Mossad” what they are actually saying is that a miniscule fraction of Jews are so incredibly smart they are able to control all the dumb gentiles in the world. It just shows how contemptuous characters like David are of the goys – he thinks we’re so stupid the brilliant Jews can easily dupe us.

    My boss is Jewish. She’s a nice lady but I wouldn’t call her an Einstein. Nor do I think all us goyim are as dense as David obviously thinks we are.

    David, if you think all Jews, or all Israelis, are so incredibly intelligent that they can run the world with the mass of gentiles remaining dumber than sticks of gum, all I can say is “Speak for yourself, dude.”

  • Also, it seems to me that if the Israelis control PR, someone is obviously sleeping on the job, judging from the barrage of criticism the Israelis are subjected to. These world-class geniuses somehow can’t keep a lid on the Guardian, BCC, CNN or MSNBC and yet we’re supposed to think they control governments – yeah, sure.

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