Family Guy Actor Sides With Palinth

Friday, February 26, AD 2010

Patrick Warburton, who the true geeks among us will remember as The Tick, sides with Palin over the FamilyGuy attack onTrig episode:

Cast member Patrick Warburton told TV critics Wednesday he objected to the joke.

“I know it’s satire but, personally, that [joke] bothered me too,” Warburton said on a conference call to promote his other primetime show, CBS’s sitcom “Rules of Engagement,” which returns for a fourth season on March 1. (On “Family Guy” Warburton does the voice of the wheelchair-bound police officer, Joe.)

“I know that you have to be an equal-opportunity offender, but there are some things that I just don’t think are funny.”

Shhh. Wait. It gets better:

“Look, I have fun. I like Seth [MacFarlane, the show’s creator]. He’s got a great comic mind and I think that the show can be fantastically funny. But I do believe that it can be hurtful at times,” Warburton said in response to a question about the episode posed by WaPo Team TV’s “Family Guy” bureau chief Emily Yahr. […]

“A show like that … is going to offend everybody at one point or another,” the actor said.
“My mother actually believes my soul’s in peril for being on the show,” he added.

Hold up, for the Post felt it needed to make sure readers knew Warburton was being sarcastic with that last line:

Note to Ms. Palin — he was making a joke.

Phew. And I thought he was being serious.

Warburton is a Catholic, and he and his wife have four kids.

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9 Responses to Family Guy Actor Sides With Palinth

  • He may be The Tick to geeks, but to us dorks he’s Puddy!

  • I’m a dork. The episode where Puddy gets religion jumps to mind.

  • If we’re going to play this game, I suppose I should note that Andrea Fay Friedman, the actress who played the girl on the Family Guy episode (and who herself has Downs Syndrome) thinks Palin was the one who was out of line.

  • “My mother did not carry me around under her arm like a loaf of French bread the way former Governor Palin carries her son Trig around looking for sympathy and votes.”

    Yeah, she’s a real sweetheart BA.

  • Ms.Friedman seems to be doing the part of the house “low life African-American” for the Family Guy IMHO.

  • Marv,
    I see you haven’t changed. Still wrong about pretty much everything, including contributors and commenters on this site. How very sad for you.

  • Oh, my goodness!

    That last comment actually interrupted the finishing touches on a homily that has to be delivered in 25 minutes!

    Judge much, Marv? “Her children are heavily involved in sex and drugs”? Scandalize much, either, for that matter?

    what do you know of what Chelsea Clinton has or has not done (not that it matters)? the one thing everyone knows about Chelsea Clinton is that she hasn’t given birth to a child. We know *nothing* else. (not that I care to, but there it is.)

    And it would not be inappropriate to moderate that little puppy out of the conversation.

    I’ll pray for y’all at Mass.

  • In all honesty, haven’t had a chance to read the comments re Pat Buchanan. I’m not singling you out, Marv, really. I’m singling the comment out.

    Re Sarah Palin and her motherhood, well…she ain’t Catholic. Is she a good role model for young women? I like much of what she does in public. MILF? Perhaps the carnal man might think so. But I choose to TRY not to think of ANYONE in that way, so as not to degrade either her or myself. Seems like she gets an awful lot of bad commentary based on the gifts god gave her. it isn’t like she spent millions on plastic surgery to look the way she does.

    Lastly, “judge not” in the context of Scripture doesn’t mean that we should never call anything wrong because we all sin. Right and wrong are OBJECTIVE. Just because I smoke crack doesn’t mean I can’t call someone else wrong for doing it; it just means I recognize that I am wrong too. And your comments really do verge on being awfully ad hominem (what difference does my opinion about Sarah Palin’s politics OR body have to do with the correctness of her criticism of Seth Macfarlane (the correct answer is, “none”)?

    We’d all be much more effective debaters if we stuck to the facts, and those conjectures and opinions supportable by facts. Whether Sarah Palin is pretty or not has no bearing, does it?

  • Marv, one of the joys of being a blog contributor is being able to pick and choose who I allow to comment on my threads. I have deleted your comments and you are now banned from commenting on my threads. Have a nice life.

Res et Explicatio for AD 2-4-2010

Thursday, February 4, AD 2010

[Update at the bottom of this post]

Salvete TAC readers!

Here are my Top Picks in the Internet from the world of the Catholic Church and secular culture:

1. The USCCB scandal continues as the U.S. bishops continue to issue denials of wrongdoings.

Mary Ann of Les Femmes blog asks why does the USCCB continue to cooperate with evil.

An interesting twist to this story is how the Boston Globe and New York Times covered the homosexual pedophile abuse scandal in the Church quite vigorously yet not one peep when the USCCB is caught red-handed with direct links to anti-Catholic organizations.

2. A great discussion about the origins of the phrase, “The Dunce Cap“, provided for a clarification by Friar Roderic.  He provided a video that explains the steady progression as a Protestant insult, ie, to call Catholic dunces for being aggressive in their Catholic beliefs, to the more secularized version which has turned it into a catch phrase for idiocy.

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As Our Modern, Western Culture Begins To Implode, The Catholic Church Is Our Last, Best Hope

Sunday, January 31, AD 2010

Channel surfing the other night, I came across a slew of 1980s “coming of age” movies on cable television. With all of their flaws (too much sexual innuendo, which is mild by today’s comparisons,) one can easily see a positive theme of a bright future and endless possibilities running through this genre of films. I had almost forgotten that in the 1983 film Valley Girl, Julie played by Deborah Foreman actually chastises her hippy parents for their suggestion that if she and her new boyfriend Randy, played by Nicholas Cage, want to explore their sexuality it would be alright by them.  Julie rebukes her parents for having such beliefs as well as the nostalgia surrounding their involvement in the 1960s anti war movement; after all it was the era of Ronald Reagan. Everything seemed possible; it was Morning in America again. Many of these movies were set in California which at the time exuded excitement for those of us growing up in colder, Midwest climates. Economically, California was booming and it was also the heart of a growing and diverse music scene.

Fast forward some 25+ years later and many of today’s films have a dark undercurrent with more than a little subtle leftwing political and cultural propaganda running through them. While there are certainly hopeful signs in Hollywood, especially with the advent of stars like Eduardo Verastegi and his movie Bella and associated Metanoia Films, (Click here for my interview with Eduardo Verastegui,) the secular film industry has fallen even farther into the cesspool. Sadly the Golden State’s economic boom seems but a distant memory, which was bound to occur when California’s Big Government mentality rivaled that of Sweden or the Canadian province of Quebec. The bigger question remains; is California setting the trend once again for the nation and the western world, and if it is what hope is there? The hope remains as it always has not in mortal man and the latest left wing hypothesis about the world’s failings, but in the teachings of the Catholic Church.

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4 Responses to As Our Modern, Western Culture Begins To Implode, The Catholic Church Is Our Last, Best Hope

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  • Fulton Sheen said that the time of evil would come upon mankind. Pope John Paul said a great darkness has descended on the earth. And we are living in this age of darkness and evil made transparent . The light of Christ is shining so brightly now that all of mens hearts and actions are coming into the light and being exposed for who and what they are. This is a great time of purification and God is getting ready to move mankind into a very important direction. You are either with Christ or against Him, There will be no middle ground. That is why it seems that it is all imploding but what is really happening is a time of great grace before the time of great judgement!

  • Man, where have I been for not finding your web site earlier – loved every word spoken.

    will be e-mailing you later brother. Praise Christ for you taking a stand and speaking His truth. We are so hungry for JUST the truth. Fr. John Corpie tells it like it is – and there is standing room only when he speaks somewhere. Holy Mother Church needs to feed her sheep – I am so tired of shim milk. Where is the beef that I may feed on the deep things of God.

    God bless brother – Later.

    In Christ,
    Don

Mel Gibson Needs Our Prayers

Wednesday, January 27, AD 2010

Last night I was exercising and flipping through the channels and saw Mel Gibson on the Jay Leno Show- very disturbing stuff.  He joked about having a lot of off-color jokes, he offered up some profanity to quote some girls he ran into while filming in Boston. To top it off he promised Leno that if and when he decides to get married again he would announce it first on Leno’s show.

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200 Responses to Mel Gibson Needs Our Prayers

  • Very sad. But for the grace of God….

  • Mel Gibson needs prayers and a good kick in the tail. A lot of people looked up to him and he threw it all away for the bottle and a babe. The staging of a ceremony where his crazy father ruled that his first marriage was invalid, was the coup de grace.

    http://deceiver.com/2009/07/31/mel-gibson-annuls-29-year-marriage-through-secret-tribunal/

  • I feel the same way. Mel Gibson has let many people down, himself, his wife and children most of all. I won’t be buying any more movie tickets or watching him act like a dirty old man for the amusement of his waning audience.What’s next–showing up at the Playboy mansion to party with Bill Maher etc? So very sad to see how far he has gone off the deep end. He, his children and his wife very much need our prayers as does the little new life he has brought into the world so carelessly.

  • What’s happened to Mel Gibson is the last year or so is really confusing and disappointing. Maybe some day we’ll get the full story. That said, I can’t imagine a guy like him without spiritual advisors and such that would have tried to talk some sense in to him… or is it all just for show?

    The worst part is that people think he’s Catholic… but how can that be with someone who basically set up his own parish and clearly lives contrary to the Church’s teachings? He might worship in a ‘Catholic fashion’ but I doubt this counts and communion with Rome. All very sad…

    That said I still think he’s one of the most interesting directors working today and I do want to see Edge of Darkness. Go figure.

  • We all know that the Church is supernatural, but this is a reminder of how badly we need the institution on a natural level. If in-laws had the power to annul marriages, how many marriages would be held valid? We need guidance from an objective source. Henry VIII thought he could be perfectly Catholic on his own, and that didn’t work out well either.

  • I concur with everyone’s sentiment about Gibson – I thank him from the bottom of my heart for The Passion, which I think is one of the greatest films ever made. I am also deeply dismayed by his downward spiral, not only as a Catholic, but a traditional Catholic.

    I mean, the odds that we would ever have a man in Hollywood making films from our perspective had to be a million to one. And now this.

    That said, I’m going to see his new movie 🙂

  • These days, I find HOPE to be the most important thing to pray for. These are depressing days.

  • I also concur with all the comments here. Though I caution lumping him with traditional Catholics. I would say he was a sedevacantist or an independent chapel Catholic, but not traditional Catholics.

    With that said I too will be watching his movie!

    🙂

  • It is a real shame about the divorce. He, like all of humanity, is a major disappointment.

    And, even so, The Passion remains an outstanding achievement.

  • Tito, you’ve hit on a pet peeve of mine. There is no such thing as an independent chapel. Either you’re under the authority of the Church (usually a bishop), or you’re in schism. I know that some breakaway groups have called themselves “independent” to distinguish themselves from the SSPX, but schism is schism.

  • Pinky,

    No skin off my back.

    They can call themselves the Purple People Eaters for all I care, they’re still not Catholics with a capitol “C”.

  • I think that the Devil drew a bead on him after the Passion and set out to tear him down in the most dramatic fashion. Sadly, he didn’t (for whatever reason) have (or avail himself of) the resources that could have helped him resist. Thanks for the reminder to pray for him.

  • There are some great comments above. I would just like to say that we have to be careful not to fall into the same trap in which Mel fell. This is in no way to diminish what he did, but Mel must have known his weak areas, the areas the evil one could exploit. We all have them. I heard about some of Mel’s failings a couple of years ago while in Hollywood giving a talk about my book. I didn’t want to believe it and hoped it was some sort of misunderstanding. Sadly, the critics of the Passion are feelings their oats and thus have become more emboldened to tear down the Faith. While we pray for Mel and his family, let us also pray for each other that we too don’t end looking as cartoonishly sinful as Mel has become. It could happen to us all, if we don’t pray, lose our humility and stay faithful.

  • Mad Max is Mel’s best film, hands down.
    I wonder if there is more to this whole Mel Gibson thing for Catholics than meets the eye. Consider: And this may be a bit of a reach… The heresy of Modernism. Pius X called it the culmination of all heresy. Relativism and Sentimentalism are two wide spread belief ‘systems’, ‘orientations’ or ‘perspectives’ that clearly fall under Modernism as verifiable heresy yet they are nearly unknown or unrecognized in western Catholic circles. The Sedavacantists have fallen prey to relativism as if the experience of Jesus is a subjective experience, versus meeting TRUTH. And the Sentimentalism of Jim Cavezel and his Mejougorja connection – ‘i feel the presence’ versus ‘I am present in front of the Tabernacle. I think Mel is simply an actor and his life has always been a bit of a tragic comedy. Is it just me? I think an honest man would have to admit that we all are the son that never left the farm and that Mel will always be the Prodigal son, wondering his way home.
    They say if you really want to see Mel as himself, watch the movie ‘conspiracy theory’

  • I was always puzzled by conservative Catholics who held this sedevacantist up as a model Catholic.

  • Seeing his failings, I have been tempted to mock but I wonder how easy it is to trip and fall away from the catholic ideal. Once the fall begin and the darkness surround us we become incapable to discern what is going on. So, pray for him, humbly, and pray for all the brothers and sisters who fall each day, maybe one day they will be the one praying for you.

  • To restraindradical
    Regarding sedevacantists. I have found them all a fascinating bunch overall. Coming from hard corp ultra-lefty katholic boston – The novelty of talking to them I find brings me great joy.
    Incidentally, i never refer to my self as a conservative catholic, rather I am orthodox in my belief and follow the magisterium to the letter. Honestly I find it much more reasonable to believe that the seat of Peter is currently vacant, than to believe that a woman’s choice trumps a babies life or that relationships based on dirty habits should be elevated to ‘marriage’. Both these social dysfunctions have been elevated to quite near dogmatic teaching in katholic Boston. Mel Gibson deserves legend status – His alcoholic escapades have landed less lucky men in jails and homeless shelters. God has given him herculean grace. Consider; Direct and produce “The Passion” and bring the term “sedacavantist” into the vernacular are accomplishments fitting of a Bishop. For sure he is an Alcoholic goofball but he is also an odd poster child for the plight of Catholic manhood…at least mine anyway…

  • RR – I’ve often heard celebrities talk about the Faith and get parts wrong because they’re not well-catechized. Heck, never mind celebrities, you hear that stuff from people from all walks of life.

    I didn’t know much about Mel Gibson, but I figured that he had a large family, and talked about his faith, and didn’t cheat on his wife, and even made a movie about Jesus. Good for him. If he said a few things that didn’t reflect a proper understanding of Catholicism, I’ve probably heard just as bad from priests. I didn’t realize that he’d really bought into the whole sedevacantist thing, and didn’t know about his other failures.

  • I was disapproving of Gibson’s turn to the violent in the film that was about the Mayan’s (Apocalypto). It was definitely a lurid fascination with evil violence.
    Gibson also EXAGGERATED the whipping scene in the Passion, contrary to known facts, and was superficial in the Gethsemani scene (where spiritual suffering was greater than the physical torture). It was almost as if the demons wished to snare Gibson for making the Passion by detecting a weakness they could exploit. Another weakness which one can note is personal vanity. Henry VIII was ruined by that kind of pride gradually taking over his life, and one can see similar symptoms in Gibson. Now he’s trapped and seems to know it and doesn’t seem to know how to solve it!
    The separatist spirit of schismatics may be the error that brought him to decide his Catholic marriage was conveniently invalid. Again, hints of Henry VIII!

  • I think Apocalypto was far too mild. The culture depicted celebrated human sacrifice. In Abortion-nation we have made believe since roe v wade that abortion is something that it isn’t. At least the Mayan’s were honest pagans.

  • I totally agree with restrainedradical. I followed the development and production of “The Passion” even when it was considered an underdog that might never see the big screen and I was definitely pulling for Gibson, Caviezel, et al. It was a pretty good movie for illustrating the suffering endured by Christ. It was not sufficient for communicating the Gospel, in my opinion.

    Back to the point: Mel Gibson’s well-known rejection of the Papacy ensured that I would not trust him wholly. I tried to tell people that we should pray for his conversion or he could disappoint us. The spiritual warfare he endured must have been horrific.

    If he repents, I think he needs to retire to a private life, as it is obvious that celebrity kills souls.

    First Bud MacFarlane, Jr. and now this. It’s unfortunate. We need to pray hard for Jim Caviezel just in case.

  • Anyone who saw Gibson’s interview with Raymond Arroyo during filming of the “Passion” should have seen the man was headed for a big crash. But, apparently, he had so isolated himself within his own version of Catholicism that he had no mentor, no father-confessor who could pull him back from the brink. You don’t pour that kind of energy into that serious of a work and not have personal blow-back *unless* you are prepared and surrounded by those who will keep you from crashing.

    You can see the same sort of scenario with someone who has nursed a spouse or close family member through a serious disease such as cancer. Once you get through it and the pressure lets off . . .

    Kamilla

  • I concur. The devil is having a field day with him. Take down Mel and you take a lot of people with him via confusion, dissapointment, disgust, etc. Excellent that you should remind us to pray for him. The wife should have never divorced him. (such an easy off the hook for guys) Poor thing, she played right into that. Don’t misunderstand;I would be furious,too. But see, the devil is smarter than we are. If you LIVE THE GOSPEL, which is, if you TAKE CHRIST’S advice…you will not lose. Go it on your own ie divorcing him, that was NOT what Christ wanted her to do; she played right into the devil’s hand and then of course, Mel is in no condition to be running the show right now and a man isn’t going to want to be alone..hence, the foreign chick. Let us pray for him and hit the devil where it hurts !

  • I agree with leanne———–he needs our prayers!

  • Yes, Mel needs our prayers (this devil an be cast out only by prayer and fasting). John Edwards (pro-abortion creep) also needs prayers. After cheating on his dying wife, he too has gone out of control sexually. I think Tiger Woods might be trying to save his marriage but I don’t know. I agree the devil wants to “get back at Gibson for his film. But for the grace of God, there go I.

  • After seeing Mel’s answers to Diane Sawyer about The Passion, I never expected this. It is truly shocking.

    However, Mel has long been conflicted–as if anything goes in art. Braveheart is a masterpiece, but there was no need for him to get naked with an actress in this film or any other flick. And his Icon Productions distributes a lot of crap.

    I like Jim’s attitude. All these men are gifted, I just hope they come around to Christ and use their talents to lead others to heaven. God help them and all of us.

  • You see his latest interview? Looks like he’s drinking again.

  • I couldn’t finish watching it.

    He certainly needs God grace now more than ever.

  • Mel Gibson is the only one who could play Severian. Mel Gibson for Severian.

  • That would make for an interesting movie.

    You are referring to Chrysostom’s antagonist right?

  • Being a recovering alcoholic and Christian I can identify so much with my Catholic brother Mel.
    The person I was when I drank was often rude and disgusting.
    The sober person I was before I had my wonderful encounter with a Loving & Forgiving Savior could also be harsh & judgmental.
    The kindness and gentleness that define me these days can only be maintained by continual relation with Christ. If I slip up and begin to drink again, or forsake the relationship I have with our Lord,will probably take me back into the people I was before.
    Brother Mel needs our prayers so that he may be able to to return to the Lord in fellowship and sobriety.
    I look forward to the day when he will again be a wonderful witness for Christianity.

  • Recently I read that Mel suffered from Bipolar Disorder in addition to being an alcoholic.

    After just having read Bud Macfarlane’s three novels, I read about his divorce situation. It really astounded me. His wife’s side of the story has been told, but there is no word of/from him at all. Maybe he, too, suffers from Bipolar.

    Both men are so gifted and I am sure that spiritual warfare has been fierce – maybe they were just not prepared for the onslaught. It is so very sad that they’ve inspired so many and now have disappointed so many. Lots of prayers and fasting are needed.

  • Rich Joyner has said that those on the front lines confronting the enemy are those who are attacked. Yes, some become prisoners of war, and we must never abandon our troops. I believe this is Mel Gibson. Let us not condemn him but we must pray until his release. He is still one of us.

  • To be honest, I think any kind of reparation and self-reform Mel makes should be mostly private, lest there be a temptation to profit from it in his career. He has not handled fame well in the past. For his soul I can think of no safer way than to retire to obscurity.

  • Mel is old enough to know better. Money is a very corrupting infuence. Never pray for money; pray for wisdom.

  • It is more than likely because of his movie, The Passion, that he has been targeted by HAARP. Before you jump me on this, please do your research on this low frequency radiowave generator that has the capability of changing a persons mental state – ELF vibrations are the same frequency as human brain waves. It’s part of the military – many countries use this technology that some call the Tesla tech..
    It appears to have begun after the Passion movie. Traditional Catholic or not, anyone or group of people can be zapped.
    Do the homework…ask for the Mercy of God for our Nation and the world.

  • My sister is friends with a group of women in L.A., who are the girlfriends of Mel’s wife. Mel’s wife is a saint, especially after all she has endured. Mel is not humble enough to submit to Rome, never has been accountable to anyone, from most reports. Medjugorge is not, as of yet, approved by Rome. Most of authentic Catholic family life is “doing your duty and following in the footsteps of Christ.” One can not continue drinking and also have a relationship with Christ. This was said by St. John Vianney. One or the other will become your master. Pray for Mel’s wife…and all wives and children who have endured their alcoholic spouses/relatives, it is a chaotic spiral that tries to pull everyone involved into HELL…

  • Enough judging … more praying.

  • In regards to Mel Gibson it saddens my heart with exsream passion for this man. Remember he is being attacked by Satan though all of his mental illnesses, alcohol abuse and relationship with his previous wife. I believe God himself touched Mel Gibson and inspired him to direct the “PASSION OF THE CHRIST MOVE” with actor Jim Cavisel playing Jesus. Both men have incountered God in their own way. Now Satan has attaced our brother and we must pray for Mel Gibson and Jim Cavisel. Forgiveness is the answer. I thank you Mel and Jim for making such an inspiring movie of our Lord. I am also a Catholic and prolife person and believe that Mel will come back to his faith one day. Mel Gibson is my brother and I love him as Jesus loves him.. God bless you Mel Gibson and my prayers are with you. When I saw you on the show I feel your pain. God bless, Sarah “Remember people we all have fallen, so don’t throw stones and don’t ask questions that hurt”. Love the sinner and not the sin..

  • Mel had been making up his own theology about “Church” and ecclesiology for some time as witnessed by the subjective adherance to the Pius X group. He is making up his own spirituality and theology surrounding marriage and dating, now it seems at this point. One heresy leads to another.

  • In regards to Mel Gibsons wifes friends. Have you read or watched the movie about St. Rita? Watch it and you will get truth and compassion regarding Mel Gibson. Sometimes a person when they are in that danger zone of sin, they feel they can’t turn back. They loose faith, so remember to pray for his healing. Watch the inspiring movei of St. Rita Of Caleta/Italy.. As Mel Gibsons wife, she must be hurt and must forgive Mel Gibson the man, so she can heal. God knows all things and will never leave Mrs. Gibson and their children. I will pray for her for devine strength and healing of the pain she is induring from the sin.. God bless you all

  • I agree with the article’s writer that Mel should be prayed for. However,can someone,outhere, also say the Rosary for his first wife and their children, who must really be hurting?

  • Amen Brother!!I have been feeling the exact way about Mel Gibson.I have to comment on Thereas Maris comment. Mel Gibson was not and is not involved with the ‘Pius X group’.The Pius X group as you refer to them,are not Sedevacantists and Mr. Gibson is a Sedevacantist.I read that his father annulled his marriage to his first wife.Because he does not recognize the authority of the Holy Father or the Bishops.I will agree that one heresy leads to another.He sure does need our prayers!!!

  • Don’t chalk something up to brainwave zapping that can be easily explained in one word. Sin. It’s pretty easy for many of us to go from feeling (or desiring to be) profoundly zealous and pious to the other direction. For those of us who have embraced sin at one time, it’s a never ending battle to resist those temptations. Sometimes we win and are strengthened, sometimes we give in and are weakened. Just pray for the guy and sinners in general.

  • Did you say “Mel, please come back to the Church”?
    Mel Gibson was never in the Roman Catholic Faith, he and his father are sedevacanist. They have their own beliefs.

  • I think the unnamed writer of this blog genuinely did Mr. Gibson a disservice by his condescending comments on what s/he admits was a “flip through” of an interview he wasn’t paying attention to. That lack of attention shows. The interview was about being a father late in life, and how Mr. Gibson was quitting smoking after having that habit for forty-five years for the sake of his daughter. I don’t recall him being foul in any way. He was his usual good natured self. Even in his recent movie, he plays the role of a decent father.

    Pray for whomever you wish, but stop incesantly criticizing the people who use their talents in wonderful ways and yet have human flaws. Criticism is cheap, and usually comes from the people who buried their own talents. And gossip and distorting the truth is a sin in every religion.

  • It seems the closer one gets to our Lord the more diligently the devil works to trip you up. Prayers, prayers and more prayers!

  • I agree totally with Mon. My dear Brothers and Sisters, Mel, through the Grace of God, gained sooo much territory for the Body of Christ and ANGERED the enemy! The Devil PREYS on our weaknesses and brokenness. He REVELS in our misery. I will not judge my brother Mel, because there before the Grace of God go I! I completely abhor everything he’s doing, but PLEASE instead of chastising him, PRAY, PRAY, PRAY! Beg the Lord for healing graces for this man and his wife and children. Mel can’t do it alone! He desperately needs the intercession of his Catholic family!

  • Mel, GOD loves you and so do we.As a sober Alcoholic for 34 years I know that if I can stay sober, you’ve got more where-with-all than I do, a retired aviation employee. I’ve seen part of your “chrst” movie and was very inspired. Be for GOD in the media. One Day At A Time, Easy Does IT, Live and Let Live, Let Go and Let God. GOD BLESS YOU AND RECOVER FROM YOU ILLNESS, I DID.

  • What happened to Mel Gibson, can happen to each and every one of us. He does need our prayers and we need prayers ourselves. May we pray for the gift of perseverance. Mel is being attacked by the evil one for producing the Passion of Christ. He snatched alot of souls from perdition. So let’s pray and sacrifice for him, for he is undergoing a severe test now. Let’s not judge him but pray instead.

  • Many prayers are needed. The Passion of Christ is truly a great movie and it did so much good. Why would it seem strange that Satan is working hard to discredit the movie and the one who made it?

  • Sometimes, ending up in the gutter is the best thing that can happen to an alcoholic, living in impurity.
    When you’ve bottomed out, then you can only look up to God, because that is really all we have.
    Mel has too much…
    Robyn and his children are the ones that are really suffering. I hope there are good people around them, to support them and protect them from what their father is doing to them.
    At the end of the day, Robyn will always be looked up to for enduring such a public humiliation.

  • If anyone can look at Mel Gibson now and not understand how Satan works to draw those who do good for the kingdom down into his sewer, they are either blind or in denial. The enormous good that came from Gibson making the Passion of the Christ, and the personal attacks he withstood at the time surely puts him in the bullseye of the evil one. I can say as deeply committed “orthodox” Roman Catholic, any time someone is on the narrow path, and drawing ever nearer to Our Lord, seeking to give Him honor and glory, and do all for Him, Satan HATES them all the more and sends his minions to attack, infest, and even in some rare cases possess that person. When you do good, you can be sure you will be attacked by the devil, and the more profound your spiritual growth, and the higher degree of good one does for the Kingdom, the more those attacks increase, and the severity of them as well. Mel Gibson is clearly under attack….pray for him…Satan wants to take him down. We are given an opportunity now to see how the evil one operates, and we are called to respond with our prayers and supplication on Gibson’s behalf. May God help him, as well as all who are under particular attack at present.

  • Dear God PLEASE Help MEL Gibson repent! Go back to his real wife but take care of the child he fathered. I am so sad, the way I see it, Mel gave into to Satan! He did the great movie about Christ and the Devil attacked him and looks like he won. Dear God open Mels eyes and bring him back to the fold. To Mrs. Gibson, I am so sorry for your suffering and pain and may God hold you in his arms and Heart.

  • Been praying for him for a long time— In the years since he made the Passion I have wondered at his “fall” and found myself asking could it be the evil one hates what Mel did with that movie so much that he has been relentless in his attacks ever since. Not that Mel is an innocent by any means but I believe he has always been somewhat of a tortured soul. I do not doubt Mel Gibson’s love for our Lord— The movie he made was too intense, too real for it to have been just a story to him— I think his love for our Blessed Mother and the Lord were obvious and that movie had a profound effect on many people and I know for sure Satan hates Mel Gibson for that reason— as so many have said already— pray for him and remember there but for the grace of God go I…

  • Mr. Mel Gibson’s best work was “The Passion of the Christ”. I will still watch it every year during lent, usually on Good Friday, while crying my eyes out and thanking God for the beautiful gift of such a ‘sorrowful reminder’ that (actually) God created for us thru Mel Gibson and all those people that worked on or supported the movie. It helps me to get back in touch in a deeper way with what matters. Pity and pray for Mel Gibson and his x-family. He has obviously fallen into the ‘pit’ for whatever reasons. (There but for God’s grace goes I.)
    A caution to anyone planning to see Mel Gibson’s new movie, be careful of what you support. Supporting evil is usually subtle for most of us. What seems insignificant is still a choice. Hey….it’s a daily battle between good and evil. Don’t give up any ground if you can help it. But think about it. If you make choices that support an evil/bad example, such as –someone’s openly sinful life style, aren’t you inadvertently supporting the bad example too?

  • I believe you are right to ask for prayers for Mel Gibson. As a representative of Catholics in Hollywood, since making “The Passion”, he is a VERY BIG TARGET, of Evil, just as our Priests are. IF you damage a big one, you can weaken the faith of countless weak Catholics, and potential Christians.

    Having said that, I also believe, after reading his biography, that he is Bi Polar. His wife was always an anchor to him even during his earlier career, when temptation would have made him more vulnerable. He knew enough to run, not walk to his wife to anchor him after each film, and dreaded being away on location.

    His outbursts, and off the wall behavior is very consistent with someone in a manic episode (cycle). That does not excuse him. He needs the help of a good grounded Catholic Psychiatrist who can help him with that. Think both Rosies, and Brittany Spears as well. typical manics. Robin Williams, Jim Carrey as well. The ranks of creative geniuses are full of Bi Polar people. Bi Polar disorder is also the most treatable with medication. You can live a perfectly balanced life.

    The Bi Polar aspect does not rule out the demonic either. Certainly not all people dealing with Mental Illness are dealing with the demonic, but you often find those under assault by evil showing accompanying mental illness.

    But, yes, we need to pray for him. And for all those in that wacky world. We’re supposed to pray for all the unbelievers. And to go easy on judging them. That’s not our job.

    I predict that one day soon, he will come crashing down, and may have a really tough bottom to wake him up. Hopefully real soon.

    Jim Kearney

  • I think there’s a desire to believe that great people aren’t capable of grave sins or that grave sinners aren’t capable of great things.

    As Mel himself says, he hasn’t changed. He’s always been a foul-mouthed sedevacanist who loves women and booze. At the same time, he’s always been very strong in his faith. He still attends Mass, though he no longer receives Communion. He’s really not that different from millions of Catholics struggling with sin. He’s just rich, famous, and talented enough to both make a movie about Christ and have an affair with a model. I can’t say that had I been blessed with his gifts that I’d use them more wisely.

  • I have thought for a long time that Gibson needs medication and prayer.I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out that he’s bi-polar.He’s a brillian actor and director but very strange in many ways.Hope he gets the help he needs.

  • Gibson is a terrific actor.

    Anyone who watched the Leno interview knows that the blogger has (to put it kindly) fabricated and misrepresented the character, the nature, and the facts.

    How could Mel have announced his girlfriend’s pregnancy on the interview when his daughter had been born months before? Do facts not matter to Catholics? Is truth optional?

    This was a cowardly hit piece on a fine actor and director. Stirring up the calamity pot with selfrighteous nonsense.

  • John, if the author misrepresented any of the peripheral information I won’t defend him on that, but to say that the date of the pregnancy is of central importance is false.

    Gibson cheated on his wife and that is a terrible, unmanly thing to do. If you can’t agree with that basic truth, nobody here cares about anything you have to say. Gibson is STILL cheating on his wife because marriage is an indissoluble union no matter what the law has to say about it.

    As mere mortals we don’t judge the state of another’s soul, but these actions are horrific, especially given the actor’s upbringing in a religious confession heavily inspired by Catholicism. We must pray for him without believing that we couldn’t fall into the same trap.

  • i am really saddened with the turn of events and i do believe its the work of evil since passion. we have to keep praying for him to St michael archangel especially to sorround him with his protection. we all need St michael’s protection everyday. Blessed Virgin mOther, please sorround Mel Gibson with your mantle.

  • Well, if it’s Satan working on Mel, he’s been at it since long before The Passion. Mel has been a reputed womanizer for decades (if he’s prowling around as a wizened 50-something, what do you think he was up to as a pretty boy 30-something star? Yeah.)

    I’ve always thought the sadism in his films (including the Passion) is related to self-hatred for his long infidelity. But then maybe he’s just a sadist.

  • Having followed this director and actor since his Braveheart days, it seems that there’s a reasonable possibility that he’s mentally ill. He inarguably can use prayers in any case.

  • Sad yes. Secular humanist,yes; disobedient to the Magisterium of the church, yes; humble, no; fear of God, no. A good example, unfortuantely, no. Not the light of God. Darkness instead. Why watch anything made by him at this point?

  • My heart goes out the Mel Gibson — what talented, gifted soul…

    As indicated by others’ comments already, I, too, strongly believe that he is influenced and is under the attack of the Evil One for gifting us with “The Passion.” The Passion brought many people back to God. Can you imagine how many souls Mel Gibson can save with other such GREAT movies? He has the potential to do SO much (I mean HUGE things!!!) for the greater glory of God and salvation of souls with his talent, which is why I believe the Evil One is fiercely attacking him.

    Our Lord, as well as Our Lady of Medjugorje, mentioned about the power of prayer from the heart and fasting, so let’s do that for our brother, Mel Gibson — for himself and for our God’s glory.

    MIR,
    Fiat

  • If i am not mistaken, i believe that Mel was studying
    to be a Catholic Priest.

  • The Passion of the Christ has been a powerful
    witness to Jesus Christ. Mel is under attack, we
    shouldn’t critize or judge but fast and pray for him, like the article says. He is our brother and he has fallen.
    There is always HOPE.

  • Now of course I mean , studying to be a Priest, in
    the early days before he got married.

  • What a conflicted person Mel is!! This may be a case of the attack of Satan on someone who had the audacity to try to educate people about the sacrifice of Jesus, which I think we can all agree has not been foremost in this country for decades. I don’t believe evil will win because Jesus promised it would not, but it looks like we are being sorely tested as individuals. When we put in place a leader who is for the culture of death and immorality, we have grave consequences to deal with. We must pray for all who are in danger of blindness and ignorance of the terrible responsibility they incur because of the platforms they currently have access to.

  • Alcohol has a way to numb a persons resolve and open the door to sin…Mel will be prayed for ..He did the passion and I feel and think that our Lord will take it the Movie the Passion into account for it was a labor of love for Mel..He doesn’t need us to JUDGE him but for us to love him and to really pray and fast for him!!

  • Ever since “The News” about Mel’s infidelity broke a year or so ago, I have thought of him sporadically and offered a prayer out of the blue. I thank the author of this blog for sharing his thoughts and prayers and wonder how many of us have done the same. It seems like the Holy Spirit has moved many of us to pray for the Gibson’s and Mel in particular. Lets do it!

  • You seem to have all the answers. It’s nice to know you are so good while condemning someone else without knowing the circumstances. Your sins remain hidden, if you have any. Catholics shouldn’t throw stones. Didn’t you ever learn in your religion that judgement of others without knowing all the facts is a sin? “judge not, lest ye be judged”.

    Fortunately Mr. Gibson has to answer to God and not you.

  • Against all odds – Mel directed, produced and released the Movie the Passion. We are in great debt to Mel for this. we should pray for his soul and regard him as a beloved brother. what is going on in his personal life, only God is the Judge. let us remember Mel during Holy Mass and let God take care of the rest.

  • Let’s remember Mel Gibson, whenever we view the Passion during Lent or other times and pray for him. Christ died for him and for all of our sins combined. Mel has given us an opportunity of a lifetime – to meditate on the Passion of Christ, which hitherto was nearly impossible in our modern times. So he is paying a price for our souls, with his. He lacks the sacraments but eventually God’s mercy will win out as Mel did answer God’s call to produce the movie against all odds. For all we know, he is but a sacrificial victim himself, which is why God does not want us to judge anyone. We should each examine our conscience daily and I can guarantee it will be an eye opener. We owe Mel a lot for the Passion Movie… let our prayers ascend heaven for him for what he did for us.

  • Mel has turned out to be a big disgrace, a huge disappointment!It is shocking that this is the same man who produced The Passion of the Christ!

  • He may well be mentally ill; at the very least, he is suffering from middle-age syndrome. . .

  • There is no point in going to Mass if you are not going to receive the Eucharist!

  • Mel Gibson has definately gone off the deep end and certainly needs our prayers, but people tend to be judgemental when some whom they greatly admire have fallen prey to the wiles of the evil one who did everything to prevent the production of “The Passion of the Christ.”

    So let us be very objective in passing judgement on him, for what the Devil was unable to accomplish in preventing this classic of a movie depicting the Passion of Our Lord in stark terms, employing the original language in the making of the movie, has had serious repercussion on a mere mortal being who finally has succombed to his wiles.

    Indeed it is a very sad story, not to mention the injustice of his father for annuling his lifelong marriage to his dear wife who has given him seven children who must be experiencing deep pain for Mel’s unfaithfulness in the abandonment of his sacred trust .

    Let us not forget that Mel Gibson regarded his wife as his best friend, and offer up much sacrifice and prayers on their behalf for renunciation of his ineptitude to his beloved family, remembering that what God has joined together no one shall put asunder.

    This is what Jesus taught, by going further in asserting that husband and wife when joined in holy matrimony, they become one flesh.

    Let us therefore intercede on his behalf, and implore St. Agustine who gave up the ways of the flesh for a much higher calling, and became one of the greatest doctors of the Catholic Church.

    Mel is is still young and will eventually feel extremely quilty in the eyes of the Lord just as we read in todays Gospel about David who had Uriah the husband of Batsheba killed after he impregnated her.

    Overwhelmed with great distress for his deception, he repented for his grevious sin and implored the Lord to forgive him his transgressions which became a heavy weight to carry.

    But the Lord who was made to carry the heavy Cross for our sins, even after He was scourged – until His Flesh was torn from His sacred body, was made to carry the heavy Cross to Calvary in order to redeem us of our sins.

    Now it’s up to Mel Gibson to carry his own cross in anticipation of God’s forgiveness, or he will never be happy and contented with himself for the wrong he committed against his wife and his beloved children.

    Mother Mary we as Catholics know the benefits of repentance and forgiveness, through the great prayer your beloved Son taught us in that great prayer of the Pater Noster. (The Our Father)

    You whom your beloved Son never refuse anything you ask Him for your children as He responded at the wedding feast at Cana in Galilee when He responded to your request in coming to the assistance of the youngmarried couple.

    Please hear and answer our prayers on behald of Mel Gibson and his wife and their seven children.

    This indeed is a very worthy petition that will help to defeat the Devil’s intention to ruin this man whom he hates for bringing to light the great suffering your Son and you yourself were made to bear for your children.

    Ave Maria.

    Roy and Carol Tenn.

  • Granted, Mel is not in a good place spiritually… and that he has serious flaws, like many others. I am not condoning what he has been doing, but at the same time, I am totally puzzled at the image of Protestant Saint Robyn.
    SHE was the one who filed for divorce! Did she need to do that (ie severe financial hardship, physical abuse, etc?) NO. And what she has done is drag her children into a much worse situation than if she was silently and prayerfully putting up with a less than faithful husband. God knows how many Catholic or Christian women have done that to keep the family together!
    Infidelity is grounds for separation, not divorce.
    So please stop holding her up like she is a saint.
    Mel would not be able to parade his mistress around publicly, causing such scandal, if Robyn had not divorced him.
    Indeed, there were credible reports in December of 2008 that he pleaded with her for a reconciliation, and she refused. It was after this, that he threw himself away and the baby was conceived. I am not excusing him, but Robyn had a share in this. God alone knows how much.

  • John Masick,

    If you do not agree with the writer of this article, refrain from personal attacks and focus on the substance.

    Thank you.

    Your comment has been deleted for lack of charity.

  • “There is no point in going to Mass if you are not going to receive the Eucharist!”

    There are many reasons. One, worship of God. Two, spiritual communion. Three, the liturgy of the Word. Four, fulfilling obligation. Shall we go on?

  • isn’t this exactly what the devil does- discredits someone who has done something good- attacks him and makes him look like a fool and hypocrite -so you won’t take him or his work seriously and damage whay good he has done?
    and men-weak fall right into it.

  • “L.” says: “There is no point in going to Mass if you are not going to receive the Eucharist!”

    That is totally wrong. The Church teaches that if you have committed a mortal sin and have not yet repented it in Confession, you are still under the serious obligation to attend Mass every Sunday. If you don’t then that is ANOTHER mortal sin!

  • Thanks all for the article and comments. I admire him & thank God for the Passion of the Christ. I will begin to offer prayers for Mel Gibson. We’re planning to see his new movie this weekend in celebration of our 25th anniv! I’m so sad and sorry about his falls from Grace. I am Very Catholic and such a sinner too – I always hope & pray our marriage lasts the rest of our lives.

  • Lord Jesus,
    Help all of us sinners to find the way home to you.We ask for the graces of love,joy,peace,contrition,conversion,self-control,forgiveness of sins,love for our Lord Jesus,perseverence,final perseverence,salvation,the grace of a happy death,prudence,long suffering,wisdom,faith and hope,for us all.

  • His “drunken rants” occurred the very week Israel began bombing the little babies in Lebanon. He was being followed and was entrapped. A particular cop got the job done. He was never forgiven for The Passion.

  • Complete rubbish. Mel Gibson was “set up” by his love of the bottle and his inner demons. A tip from an attorney Mel. If you are pulled over again for drunk driving keep your stupid mouth shut. The Passion was a great movie, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Gibson, and him alone, has made an absolute car wreck out of his life.

  • 43. But when the unclean spirit hath gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth it not. 44. Then he saith, I will return to my house, whence I came out; and coming, he findeth it empty, and swept, and embellished. 45. Then he goeth away, and taketh with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and entering, he dwelleth there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
    Matthew 12:43-45

  • To be honest, I don’t see the point in censoring John Masick’s comments. It IS sloppy to write an article after merely glancing at a news story. IF (and only if) he is right about the timeline of events, he has a valid point.

    See, John, I DO care about truth. If you care.

    But while we’re talking about the truth on a Catholic blog, Catholics know that marriage is indissoluble. Marriages are PRESUMED valid unless proven otherwise and here’s where Gibson’s sede vacantism again gouges him: any declaration of nullity his sect produces for him isn’t worth the paper it is written on.

    It is hard to believe that Gibson could have failed to contract a valid marriage with Robyn. Fine, maybe this whole bigamist situation doesn’t even hurt Robyn’s feelings. The point is that it is still a spiritual wrong and a poor witness.

  • FACE THE FACTS:

    Gibson is an artist, NOT a saint.
    He’s a master of illusion, NOT a doctor of the Church.
    Gibson is destroying his life, NOT the devil.
    Opposing Catholic orthopraxy is NOT Catholic!
    Mentally ill? No.
    Mid-life crisis? No.
    Satan hates Mel? Satan hates us all.
    Pray for all Jesus to save all sinners, not just Mel.

  • I believe it is the devil at his best… he found a weak spot in Mel and Mel let him in. We do need to pray for Mel, and I will.

  • I remember his interview with Raymond Arroryo at EWTN as if it were yesterday

    He kind of reminds me of Henry the Eighth who was once a strong Catholic and defender of the faith who then goes completely AWOL. Or like King Saul in the bible. It’s a spiritual warning. he left a crack open for the enemy, and since he had been delivered of evil demons before, when he left himself open to spiritual attack, seven more worse then the last entered into him.

    I also heard that alcoholics are often warned that when they have many years of sobriety, if they do fall ‘off the wagon’, they don’t just pick up where they left off as say a 5 drink a day drunk but they go right to where they would have been and worse if as if they never stopped to a exponentially worse sodden ten gallon a day lush complete with blackouts that could last for days.

    I have no doubt that Gibson attracted many practitioners of the dark arts who put curses and hexes on him so that when he did crack, he didn’t stand a chance.

    Someone had to have warned him. He obviously didn’t listen.

  • “To much that is given, much is required”. Anyone in the public eye has an additional burden/responsability (since they obviously have received much of “something” to be IN the public eye)to be an example of moral goodness to all those observing them. In the case of a world-renown actor, he is observed and under the scrutiny of millions upon millons of pairs of eyes. Scandal circles over the head of actors such as Mr. Gibson like vultures over an abandoned fawn. That fawn would be safer out of the open field, and would fair better if it sought out and stuck with “the correct herd” and headed for the seclusion of the forest, instead of staying out in the open where the wolfes gather and vultures pic the bones. Satan delights in the ruin of all of us, but particularly those who have influence with many and are in the public eye. All we need to do is look at the many politicians who claim to be Catholic, but vote and promote every anti-life bill and live the most anti-Catholic life style in public view to see how easy it is to buckle under the burden of having much. That God would give us all the humility of His Most Holy Mother. May we look to her example, and not that of movie stars and politicans as how we should conduct ourselves.

  • Mel is yet another casualty in the war against evil. His movie, “The Passion” was a powerful blow against satan, which undoubtedly saved thousands of souls from the clutches of hell. Now, it is obvious that satan is angered to the point of personally seeking Mel’s destruction through his simple human weaknesses. For anyone to sit in judgement of Mel Gibson, is to miss the point. We are all sinners, and we need to pray for each other in this spiritual battle. I pray that Mel will accept God’s graces and use his gifts once again to overcome evil.

  • I feel very strongly that the down fall of Mel started when he was filming the movie Apocalypto. He went to Mayan new age ceremonies and I believe there he opened himself to evil spirits cause his life from then on went down hill. It was after that he had the drinking charges etc . You Can’t be involved in that kind of stuff and expect to not be affected.

  • WOW! You said it all about Mel. I always loved him and I think the evil one has crushed him because of his making of the Passion. We need to pray for him!

  • I, too, think Satan has taken control of Mel because he made The Passion of Christ movie that inspired so many to come to know Jesus. I am wondering if Mel’s mental disorder (bi-polar or schizoid) is really a demonic possession. Could it be that Mel needs an exorcist?

  • For if my enemy had slandered me,
    I think I could have borne it.
    And if the one who hated me had trampled me,
    perhaps I could have hidden.
    But you – a man just like me,
    my companion and my friend!
    We had happy times together,
    we walked together in the house of God.~psalm 54

    It kind of gives you new insight into the character of Judas.
    Mel Gibson is to be pitied more then anything else.
    I already do pray for him btw.

  • when I watched the Passion movie it seemed a bit unreal to me and I felt somehow uncomfortable over it.
    What did Mel Gibson know exactly about the suffering Christ endured? Were all the scenes approved by knowledgable, representives of the Catholic church before the final?
    Surely, Mel did not need any approval, and we did not demand it either, we were delighted that anyone would make such a film. But don’t forget, a movie star was telling us in details about the life of Christ so that it griped millions without a question, believing it was the total truth.
    We know Jesus underwent unsurpassed, horrible sufferings, but were they also not in a spiritual form instead through such a violence shown; were we saved strickly by violence?
    Although Jesus was made human he stll was the son of God who is but s Spirit.
    Mel Gibson’s mind, like some of our priests, {basicly good people} but whom were induced for their weekness by the evil one who is out to destroy God and his church and St. Michael; it most likele began already with Gibson before the movie was made.
    I worry that the violence shown in the Passion might now backfire; even Gibson does now believe in it anymore.
    Hopefully, and I trust, he will see the light again and return to the God he claimed to love at one time.
    Marie

  • I’ve been thinking alot about Mel Gibson these days. It’s rather coincidental that this article should come out now. There is so much TRASH in Hollywood these days, Mr. Gibson deserves so much more than to be linked with those that flaunt their adultress relationships and think nothing about God and doing the right thing. I don’t know what happened, but it’s obvious something did.I pray for his wife and children. May Mr. Gibson see the error of his ways before it is too late.

  • Like Jesus himself said, “Ye without sin, throw the first stone.” My God is so merciful and will forgive him. The original sin we’re are all tarnished with can take anyone down at any time. God is allowing all this to happen. With our prayers, our Lord will bring him back to Himself. I also think he has undiagnosed minor bi- polar mental health issues ,has manic tendencies, and a little ADD. Think of all his hyperness, creativity, inabiltiy to stop smoking and his drinking (to calm down). Be merciful as I am merciful…another Jesus quote. I’m so glad this article is about praying for Mel. Prayer changes things..Mel is a very special person. I would never change places with him. It looks too confusing, lonely and sad…I’ll keep my simple little life anytime…Peace be with you Mel…xoxox

  • The Passion of Christ made the devil snarl. Satan looked for an opportunity to make his move. Hollywood hated Mel for his religious beliefs. He probably was snubbed and snickered at. He succumbed to his alcohol drinking again and the devil loosened his tongue. Hollywood continued to hate him for his words. Everyone wants to feel like they belong and they are loved. Like Christ’s temptation in the desert, the devil made Mel an offer…but different from Jesus, Mel could not refuse….a beautiful woman, sex with a beautiful woman….divorce….and a chance to buddy up with his Hollywood pals again. He is now once again loved by Hollywood. He is one of them, part of the group, partying, adultery, alcohol, admiration, etc. He is loved again by those who could not stand his religious morals. He fell, and Hollywood is happy. But is Mel happy? Mel looks miserable and is in a spiral going down, down, down. If he only would break down and come to his senses. Mel, hold on to Jesus. Let Him pull you out of the pit. Only then will you know true happiness. Come back.

  • I could not get out of seat at the end of the “Passion of Christ”. I am sure it had the same effect on many. Satan hates anyone doing anything to bring others to Christ, and so, Mel, like each and every one of us, is vulnerable to his wiles. May the Blood of Christ that won for us true freedom in Him, bring His healing upon our brother. May Mary, our Beloved Mother envelop him in her loving mantle and draw him back to the fold. God bless. Marianne from Sri Lanka

  • It’s too bad Mel won’t be seeing these comments. He needs to see that despite his failings that we are praying for him to change his ways.
    I too admired him as someone who could buck the Hollywood trend and become a symbol of a man with a deep faith and love of the Lord. Instead he has listened to the lies of the devil and been caught up in the trappings of the lifestyle of the rich and famous. I don’t admire him anymore, I pity him. I also pray for his ex and the children. He has turned into a very selfish man who puts his own needs above his faith and family. Reminds me of the movie Dorian Grey, beauty hiding the ugliness.
    Dear Lord, please change Mel’s heart and humble himself in returning to your forgiving arms,

  • I REALLY THINK THAT MEL COULD DO SOME REAL ANGEL WORK HERE, AND AT THIS TIME. HE HAS ALREADY “ACTED” OUT THE “PASSION OF CHRIST’, AN ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FILM, AND NOW ACTUALLY LIVING OUT WHAT THE DEVIL IS DOING TO PEOPLE AT THIS TIME. HE HAS THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE, AND IF HE DOES IT NOW, HE COULD REACH OUT TO THESE ANTI-CHRIST PEOPLE, THE UNBELIEVERS, AND FAMILIES WHO ARE SUFFERING THROUGH THE SAME THING AND TOGETHER FIGHT THE DEVIL WHO IS SO STRONG AT THIS TIME, AND EAGER TO DESTROY FAMILIES AND OUR FAITH. HIS RATINGS COULD COME OUT OF THE SEWER IN A HURRY. THIS IS HAPPENING TO FAMILIES EVERYWHERE, BUT WE ONLY HEAR ABOUT THE NOTIBLE ONES.

  • Dear Jesus, in your Holy Name, and through Your Precious Blood, we pray on behalf of our brother, your adopted son, Mel Gibson. Lord, we ask that you continue to shower your graces and blessings upon Mel. We ask you to deliver him from any and all unclean spirits that are attacking him…so, satan, in the Name of Jesus and through his precious blood, we command you and all of your unclean spirits to leave Mel Gibson and all situations in his life. You are a liars and thieves and we command you all to flee and begone from Mel Gibson. All of you unclean spirits of pride, lust, rage, greed, witchcraft, sorcery, mammon, division, rebellion, rejection, deception…and any other unnamed spirits that are attached to those named I command you to leave Mel Gibson also…go directly to Jesus touching no one on your way. Lord, open Mel’s heart and help him turn to you once again and to ask his family’s forgiveness. Unite them once again, Lord. Help Mel to remember the sacrament of marriage that he is promised to. Bless his family. Let Your Will be done in Mel Gibson’s life. We ask for all of this in Jesus’ Holy Name. Amen.

  • Mr. Gibson and his family should have been surrounded by prayer warriors while he was making “The Passion of Christ”, and afterwards. I believe that Satan is attacking him to make sure that he doesn’t ever again make a movie that would have such an impact on the children of God. I think that most people were praising him for his movie and forgot to pray for him.

  • Tom, I have said your prayer for Mr. Gibson, I hope all will do so also as h was once a good man may he return to this.

  • We must remember the strength and personal commitment it took to make the “Passion of the Christ”. IT seems he had to go to Italy for part of the financing…making this film was a real struggle, and satan would have done anything to bring Mel down….for the moment he has lost his way, however we must not judge…satan is much closer than most of us realize…We must pray for Mel and his family.

  • If hundreds or thousands could recite Tom’s prayer for Mel, the devils’ hooks could start being detached. Prayer said. Thank you, Tom.

  • the bigger (or in this case, the closer they appear to be to the Lord) the harder they fall, probably becasue Satan tries so hard to make them fall. I saw this with my own daughter who was SO devout as a young adult, then went off to college and now professes atheism……Satan is laughing his way through the bowels of hell

  • Yes keep Mel Gibson in prayer. When his faith was tested he crumbled and fell, the evil one works in such a deceitful way that when Gibson made the Passion the attacks were non-stop and he fell. It’s sad because I believe that God has another movie for him to make. It’s title is The Fall from Grace

  • Yes, we all need to pray for Mel Gibson and his family. We also need to include the woman he is living with. Mel was not obedient to ALL the teachings of the Church and publicly stated – on TV and other places – while making the great move THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST that he didn’t accept Vatican II and the teachings regarding the revised Liturgy.
    Satan can get a foothold and take over when we separate ourselves from the teachings of the Church.
    Let us pray and meditate on the Our Father for ourselves and for the Gibson family.

  • why is everyone equating the movie Passion with mel’s fall? mel was pretty much and has been pretty much a ‘ladies man’ whether he’s married or not. His former wife has a very good settlement from the divorce and mel continues to visit his children and have contact with them. Robin and children are comfortable.
    If mel has plans for remarriage then he and robin should have their marriage annuled.
    May God Bless the entire Gibson family.

  • God isn’t finished with Mel, nor any of us, yet.

  • The enemey of our souls knows are weaknesses and when we do good he is there to bring us down. The only thing that keeps one from falling is the frequent reception of the sacraments, the Eucharist and regular confession.(monthly or bimonthly confession) By discreting Mel he knows he can turn away from the faith those that are weak. We are in a spiritual combat.

  • The enemy of our souls knows are weakness and is ever ready to strike us down especially after we do good. Mel is a prime example. Many turned to Christ after his movie. The enemy knows that if he can bring him down many will lose heart. The only thing that keeps our spiritual armour on is the frequent reception of the sacraments, the Eucharist and monthly or bimonthly confession. We are in the midst of a great spiritual battle and need to arm ourselves with Divine Grace that comes through the sacraments

  • I wonder if we really get the story of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery. The jest that I get is, “We all live in glass houses, so we shouldn’t throw stones.” “We’ve all come short of the glory of God” and “Judge not lest you be judged.” Leave Mel alone, if he’s God’s, He’ll bring him around.

  • Hi! I agree with Sue, if he’s GOD’s HE will bring him around, it’s tough to be a star and a devout Traditional Catholic, we slip, we fall, we call on GOD to help and HE comes to help us so let we commoners leave him alone and PRAY for him.

  • Oh, and by the way, “The Passion of the Christ” was about the sufferings and sacrifices that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did for us, not the Mel Gibson life story. Why equate the two?

  • In regard to the woman caught in adultery I believe that the admonition of Our Lord was “Go and sin no more.” Something for us all to take to heart, particularly drunken adulterous Mel.

  • Our children are our greatest highway to heaven, sorry eagles, and marriage is a bond. I am separated for 15 years, and my wife lives with someone else.
    I still live the faith, a sinner no question, but no aduldtry here!

    My son and I are going skiing Wednesday. Mel wake up and smell the Rose.

  • Lot of people here throwing the first stone.

  • Sue,

    You totally misunderstand “Judge not lest ye be judged.” It does not mean that one cannot judge an ACTION as sinful. It means that we may not judge the state of a person’s SOUL, or say that they will go to hell, etc.

    See Marcel LeJeune’s explanation of the passage here: http://marysaggies.blogspot.com/2007/03/judge-not.html

    Donald is totally right, you cannot isolate just that one sentence from the passage. Jesus said “Go, and SIN NO MORE,” not “meh, there’s no such thing as sin.”

  • there have been other great epic movies, The Ten Commandments, The Greatest Story Ever told and the list goes on made by great Directors. mel happens to also be a good director of movies “with” a pretty face with a ‘passion’ for pretty young women and drink like many other actors, producers and directors.
    They all need our prayers, all of them. Of course the ex-spouses and the children involved need our prayers as well.

  • It’s not like gibson was a totally religious man who happened to fall out of Grace and left his poor grieving wife and children. He had always been ‘runnin-around.’ Who knows, maybe this time around he’ll make his girlfriend an honest-woman.

  • Name and fame will destroy you. Seek God only. May God bless Mr. Gibson and his family.

  • I can,t believe that none of you can see what is really happening to him. He by his movie
    The Passion,is being attacked by the enemy for saving so many souls via conversions. Just like our Priests who save souls he is being destroyed by the enemy so that we catholics will look at him as a nut job instead of trying to help save his soul by praying for him. Please lets just pray for him and our priests who are attacked the most because they save souls, which the enemy will do anything to stop from happening.

  • No man can create a movie as powerful as The Passion, coming so close to God, without experiencing the war that is raging in and around us. Mr. Gibson and his families need the strength of our combined prayers to help rescue him from the evil one.

    I’ve been in a similar situation and know first-hand just how powerful the evil one is and how wonderfully merciful our Lord is. Everything is done in God’s time. We can not fully understand nor should we judge, simply pray, for Mr. Gibson, his families, and ourselves.

  • Moral Judgement: A judgement of the morality of an action, whether our own or our neighbor’s.

    Too often men arrogated to themselves the right to judge their neighbor’s conduct and motives, and THAT is the sin here.

    “Judgement is only lawful according as it is an act proceeding from justice, and for this three things are required: 1. It must flow from an inclination for justice (I see nothing here but many people voicing rash judgements of a man, based on press reports?). 2. Judgement must come from a superior authority (I see many people here who think they are superior and think they have the right to judge others. It will be interesting to see on judgement day when all our sins will be made public, even our most secret ones, how clean all of your slates are). 3. Judgement is to be pronounced according to the rules of PRUDENCE. Meaning: The right reason for doing something. (I seriously doubt that anyone here could possibly have the right motives, by presuming (another serious sin), that they know this man or details of his life through press reports?).

    If defective on any of these points, the judgement will be faulty and “unlawful” according to(St. Thomas II-II, lv, 2).

    Our Lord warned against rash judgements in Matt. vii, 1, 2. Judge not, that you may not be judged. 2. For with what judgement you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measur you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3. And why seedy thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye: and sweat not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4. Etc. 5. Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thy own eye, then shalt thy see to cast the mote out of thy brothers eye.

    So here we have it from the Lord Himself.

    Even those of you who profess to be praying for Mel Gibson are praying for the things that YOU have judged him for. If a member of your family or a friend does something wrong, do you talk publicly about them exposing their faults? Or do you pray for that person privately. The harm that you do by speaking publicly about a person and pointing out their sins will turn back on you, for no good comes from this.

  • “If a member of your family or a friend does something wrong, do you talk publicly about them exposing their faults?”

    Irene, the whole point here is that Mel Gibson has exposed HIS OWN faults for the world to see. He is an A-list celebrity and knows that every move he makes will be covered by the media. He went out of his way to present himself to the world as an exemplary Catholic, then announces on national teevee that he is having a child out of wedlock with a woman other than his wife. This isn’t just rumors being spread by gossip columnists — the man himself is talking about it in front of millions of viewers. So this isn’t a case of rash judgment.

  • King David did even more horrible things ,even arranging to have the husband of his mistress Bethsheba killed in battle, but he always acknowledged his sins and repented.
    On his deathbed of all his MANY talents what he wanted most for his son Solomon was his faithfulness to God. That is my prayer for Mel, to repent just as we all have to do with our list of offenses against God in thoughts, words and deeds. J.M.J.

  • In life, some need to travel ‘full circle’ emptying themselves completely to experience the “void of emptiness”, then, return to the Father seeking the Reconcillation that can come only within the healing of the Church. As having been there myself, I can understand the journey and rejoice in reaching the destination, of returning in the Sacrament of Reconcillation. Now fortified even stronger with the armor of faith, belief and conviction, I will fast and pray for not only Mel but for all those who are still on the journey of the “full circle”.

  • I have one question ?

    If mel was your real brother or if you were a son or daughter of mel would you write and have published the article about ” MEL NEEDS OUR PRAYERS ” ?

    THE H— YOU WOULD !

    Instead you would want as little press / media coverage as possible about your loved one .

    STOP TALKING , WRITING AND BEING ENTERTAINED ABOUT MEL AND JUSTIFYING THE ENDLESS CHATTER ABOUT MEL BY SAYING ” MEL NEEDS OUR PRAYERS ”

    All that results is that you help the enemy by creating a defeatist persona of christianity through mel’s humanity .

  • I agree with Mon and Pamela Mundling. In general, people are quick to judge. We don’t know Mel’s childhood and like it or not he’s been battling with the devil since then. The fact that he is constantly attacked by an inner devil is actually a good sign that he’s struggling to find the truth! Perhaps there might be some unforgiveness he’s dealing with. Although we see alcoholism, adultery etc. the battle is a spiritual battle. Let’s help him out with our prayers!Life is short! With the help of God, we’ll celebrate our victory in the next.

  • After the “Passion” I had hoped that Mel Gibson would have followed up with the story of the early Christian martyrs or just following up on the fascinating time right after the Resurrection- These are times that need good modern visual aids in a culture that is so dependent on such things. Alas the success of “Passion” was not used to springboard more of the Christian history into the mainstream. Gibson has made a daring film and it paid-off, he was the one man positioned in Hollywood to do something that no one else would dare or care to do- but the opportunity was lost- and that decision to not proceed and then to go into the Mayan tale- probably was a the big mistake for Mr.Gibson. These kind of opportunities don’t come up often, and so I am left bemoaning the new public persona of Mel Gibson, without knowing how all of this if playing inside of Mel Gibson. Even though I am not a public personality, if I somehow ended up being a media subject or personality, I would want my friends and my brother and sister Catholics to follow my public witness and offer constructive criticisms should I deviate from Catholic teachings in letter or spirit. We are supposed to help one another, not just praise each other especially when there is serious cause for worry over what is going out in Christ’s name from one of his very public believers. We all need some tough love from time to time, and yet there must always be love in the midst of critiques of one another. I would hope that Mel Gibson would read my blog entry and be moved by it and not see it as some kind of self-righteous attack piece. But even if he doesn’t see it, the fact that I and others will continue to pray for him and his family can only be of some help. If anyone takes this blog entry as a pharisaic act of unholy judgment, then please pray for me and my family- I’m not feeling bad about writing this blog in my conscience- but of course, our consciences can be errant so pray that if I did wrong in posting this that God will get through to me in the quiet of my own conscience-taking.

  • I like this article. Like so many, I am disappointed about the turn of events with Mel Gibson. I struggled with it, because I like him and I love the Passion of the Christ, so I asked God about it, and He reminded me of St.Augustine, who was very weak and had many failings himself, yet became a Saint with God’s help. I don’t think this is the end of the road for Mel. I believe that he is in trouble and needs our prayers. The scene from the “Passion” which stands out for so many and affected so many moms is the moment Jesus falls and His Mother runs to his side and lets Him know She is there. He tells her “Behold, I a make all things new.” He can make Mel new yet, so that is my prayer.

  • Irene,

    Gibson’s agents are putting Gibson himself and his misdeeds out in public to get him maximum attention so that he can get the maximum ticket sales for his upcoming movie. Mel is telling the public himself and asking us to be happy for him.

    No! These actions are a poor witness for Catholics and a stumbling block for the whole world. The Lord told us not to judge the state of a man’s soul or stone him to drive him to his final judgment but He did NOT say that we can not judge actions, that is blatantly false, you should be ashamed.

  • Hello Tour;

    Sorry that what I said provoked you. If it makes you feel better, I will be ashamed of myself for trying to point out the hypocrisy of all of those who pass judgement on others publicly. Christ really said that we are not to judge. I will not put a personal interpretation on the words of Christ as you have done. You tell me I must be ashamed of myself in order to justify you having a right to make your judgements. I get it. It’s all about you not being judged, for making judgements.

  • “the whole point here is that Mel Gibson has exposed HIS OWN faults of the world to see. He is an A-list celebrity and knows that every move he makes will be covered by the media. He went out of his way to present himself to the world as an exemplary Catholic, then announces on national teevee that he is having a child out of wedlock with a woman other than his wife.”

    What was he supposed to do as a Catholic man and father? Deny paternity of his illegitimate child like John Edwards? John Edwards tried to cover up his deeds by pushing the woman to abort their child, and when that failed, he tried to fake a DNA test. Should Gibson neglect in his duty to support his youngest child and raise her in the faith? As you say, he is an A-list celebrity and everything he does is covered by the media. The tabloids were reporting about the pregnancy before he announced it. What else could he have done besides recognize her to the world?

    This extreme stigmatization of out of wedlock children does nothing but support the culture of abortion.

  • “What else could he have done besides recognize her to the world?”

    Certainly acknowledge the child and say that he will support the child and try to be a good father. Then follow this by a heartfelt public apology to his wife and his children for his adultery and a promise that he will amend his life and sin no more. While he is doing that he could also pledge to stop drinking. Not on the list would be having his crazy father determine that his first marriage was invalid, and marrying his partner in adultery.

  • Mr McClarey, this is a rumor. Where is your proof that this happened? How irresponsible of you to try to make rumor into fact by writing your last sentence. Down boy!

  • Yeah Irene, I’m sure Mel had crazy Hutton declare his first marriage invalid because he is not planning to marry his shack up. Sheesh!

  • Personally, I cannot see how people could have thought Mel was a Catholic icon. He starred in movies where he was having sex with women. There was nudity and I always felt so sorry for his wife due to his participation in this. He would not let his kids go to some of his movies — so I heard — How could he? No one should be shocked. Yes, he needs our prayers, but then we all do. Especially those who think it is okay to watch pornography in movies and receive communion on Sunday without confession and without true sorrow. It is the Catholic faith. I did not make it up. Pornography is a mortal sin — read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Church put it out for all of us, and we are responsible to live according to Christ’s teachings. You can find a copy for ten dollars probably at your local doicese.

  • Michael (Sunday 7th), are you suggesting that we not pray for people and their weaknesses because it is arrogant? Do fall prey to the evil one my friend. Praying is exactly the thing we should do. Your point about not wanting our family members exposed is moot, as are your points about defeatism and Christianity. One’s sins are not entertaining (except for the Jerry Springers of the world), the guy needs prayer, so I prayed. It’s called Christian charity – not defeatism.
    Blessings.

  • ooppps…I meant (obviously) to say “Do not fall prey…”

  • Yeah McClarey, you know it all I see. There is no reasoning with prejudice born out of rumors. The only crazy declarations here are your unfounded accusations. Sheesh!

  • Donald McClarey, you are a great example of someone who thinks they have the right to tell others how they must publicly repent. Who are you, sir, to specify how and in what manner ANYBODY, let alone Mel Gibson, must engage in public confession?
    Your hubris is amazing.
    You start first. We are all waiting for YOUR public confession.

  • This might be shocking to a lot of people but let me remind everyone that even the holiest person will commit sins.

    Mel Gibson wasn’t even close to holy except for making a movie about our Lord. Let us pray for his conversion as we ourselves fall and rise up again many times in our lifetime.

    That is why we pray everyday for the gift of final perseverance….

  • First of all, his marriage was unevenally yoked. His wife is a non-Catholic to begin with, and she never converted from what I read during the time the Passion Movie came out! So why was there a need for annulment?

    His human actions have spoken louder than words! When one is vunerable and weak in their faith it’s make it easier for Satan to take over one’s soul. So this means we as humans should be on guard because Satan is just a step behind us to hook us into the obbess.

  • AMEN! Tom

    That Excortcism Prayer was best said for this cause. I hope that our Prayers reach Heaven and God’s ears in Jesus Name Amen. Not only for Mel Gibson but for all of us not to fall into Temptation, and Deliver us all from evil. Amen

  • “Donald McClarey, you are a great example of someone who thinks they have the right to tell others how they must publicly repent. Who are you, sir, to specify how and in what manner ANYBODY, let alone Mel Gibson, must engage in public confession?
    Your hubris is amazing.”

    Actually your willingness to overlook abominable behavior by a celebrity is what is amazing. Gibson is the one who chose to live his live his life in the public spotlight. Gibson is the one who chose to engage in adultery and destroy his marriage, humiliating his wife and kids. Gibson is the one who thinks that his crazy father can annul his marriage. Gibson was looked up to by quite a few Christians and he threw it into the gutter. His bad behavior has been in full view of the public and so should his contrition, although there seems to be precious little evidence thus far that he has any. If pointing out this forcefully to people who wish to overlook this is hubris, so be it.

  • No one has suggested or check to see if this man is suffering from male menopause. It is a real problem and doctors are now studying it to determine if men have a change of hormones as they age. This is why they get a younger woman, usually go buy a sportscar when they usually are conservative in their living beforehand. Like living a second teenage period.

  • Of course prayers for Mel and anyone else who stirs up the devil. I knew as soon as he went through with making and finally releasing “The Passion of Christ”..he’d have hell to pay..It’s so sad to see this happen for now, but again we all know who is in charge. It’s just that simple. So cover him in prayer and BELIEVE. We all need to be on guard.

  • “So why was there a need for annulment?”

    A marriage recognized by the Catholic Church is ALWAYS presumed to be valid until proven otherwise via a legitimate annulment process. This includes marriages between Catholics and non-Catholics. The same goes for marriages between two non-Catholics, should one or both later decide to convert — they do not have to marry again in the Church unless there is reason to believe their marriage was invalid.

    One of the earlier posters may have had a point about how seeking prayers for someone experiencing a personal crisis CAN become an excuse for airing their dirty laundry or spreading gossip about them. For an ordinary person who is not a public figure, and whose troubles are not common knowledge, that may be the case. However, in Mel Gibson’s case, his “bad behavior” has indeed been in full view of the public, and he has paraded his relationship with his girlfriend in front of millions of TV viewers.

    A “public repentance” wouldn’t have to be anything dramatic — none of us are suggesting (as far as I know) that he make his next Tonight Show appearance wearing sackcloth and ashes. All he’d have to do is release a statement through his publicist saying that he acknowledged paternity of his youngest child, that he would do whatever he could to support her and the child’s mother, that he regretted the breakup of his marriage and the scandal that he had given to his fans. Then just shut up and stay out of the spotlight for a while.

  • Precisely Elaine!

  • Who are You to expect these things from him Elaine?

    And it’s easy for you McClaren to sit here like a sniper and shoot your crazy accusations about him without showing us proof. You have a lynch mob mentality. You can’t hide your hatred for the man, no matter how you try to disguise it in your outrage and concern over how he lives his life. There are many people on here who at least seem to be concerned for his soul. Your annulment accusations are preposterous. You repeatedly assert this annulment thing as if it were true, without supplying proof. Your pride and self righteousness in spreading scandal provokes the indignation of Our Lord. “thou shalt not bear False witness”. You are not free to talk publicly about the sins of another. It’s called spreading scandal (you have talked about his sins plus added a few unproven whoppers). Spreading scandal and drawing attention to it, is a sin against charity. Spreading falsehoods about someone is a sin against justice. You seem driven to do both.

  • Thanks for the prayer Tom. Said it this morning and will be saying it everyday. Mel needs our prayers & sacrifices. Prayer is so necessary here.

  • dandello, I would like to ask what you have against Catholics? Obeying the Ten Commandments is what it is all about, it doesn’t matter what religion you belong to or if you even have one. RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG. J.M.J.

  • Dandello,

    Anti-catholic attacks will not be tolerated on this of all websites.

  • Donald McClarey, I am not overlooking Mel Gibson’s behaviour, not at all. If I were to overlook it, then I wouldn’t be praying for him, which I do everyday.
    It is a fine line between realizing someone needs prayer (and as apostolic Catholics we are all obliged to try and help others get to heaven) and getting up on a verbal soapbox and spelling it out to someone else what their obligations are… what they should say, how they should say it, etc. That is not yours or anyone else’s concern.
    We as Catholics should pray for those in trouble, but we have no right telling others how and in what manner they are to repent.
    Good grief, if this is what should be done, plenty of good priests would be speaking up and lecturing him on what he should do.

  • “Good grief, if this is what should be done, plenty of good priests would be speaking up and lecturing him on what he should do.”

    You are joking right? The attitude of most of the clergy towards celebrities is typified by the sendoff that Ted Kennedy got at a funeral mass which verged on a canonization ceremony. Priests used to routinely condemn celebrity Catholics who broke the laws of God. Those days are far behind us. Now the only sin for which anyone risks a public rebuke is being “judgmental”.

  • Not so! There are many good priests. Are we to believe that ALL the priests in the world are one monolithic group???

    It is true that most won’t stick their heads up for fear of being ostracized; but there are still plenty of good priests who would indeed speak their mind about it if it were the right thing to do.

    You know, when attempting to help somebody who has fallen, you have to bear in mind the particular circumstances, plus the personality and background of the transgressor. If it is obvious that a person is proud and obstinate, then it is the WRONG thing to do, to heap scorn and attacks on his head. It is well known that for many people, this can drive them deeper into more profound trouble.

    It might make you feel better to get all your frustration off your chest, but the first priority must be careful consideraton of the most efficacious way to help a person come back to God.

    Think of Mel’s personality, as clearly evinced by the roles he has chosen and played. Do you really thinking screaming verbal insults at THIS man is going to work?

    No, no. Give him space, PRAY. It is in God’s hands.

  • Satan attacks us all. I feel very bad for the man because he is a very talented person who has, through hubris and alcoholism, nearly destroyed his life. The last interview he gave I saw him call a reporter an a**h*le after he drank out of a paper cup. I am sure it was full of alcohol. The look in his eyes during the interview was absolutely evil! It went beyond the reaction a person has when he is angry at someone else for insulting them. The look was pure, unmitigated rage. It scared me. When he drinks, it seems his evil comes out and his hubris runs amok.

    Please Lord, help this poor pathetic man, who looks like he just may die soon if you do not help him.

  • Christine you are assuming a lot. You have no way of knowing what he was drinking (more than likely coffee) and how can you say his look was absolutely evil??? This is dreadful.

    I saw the same interview and to me he looked irritated and provoked, not “evil” as you state. Please be charitable.

  • Take a look at the clip again. The look in his eyes was disturbing.

    I did not say he was evil, I don’t make those judgments. I doubt that he is. Alcoholism is an all-consuming disease, however, and he has been quite rageful while under the influence.

    During the interview, with the way his eyes were full of rage and the way he kept leaning forward – it was frightning.

    Trained actors can usually disguise their feelings, especially one as accomplished as Mr. Gibson. I would say that he is one of the better actors of his generation who never received the credit due him. How could he not disguise this emotion? I would think that would be because of alcohol…

    If he wasn’t drinking alcohol from the paper cup, his problems are much worse than I thought.

    I still will pray for him.

  • Again you are making very subjective judgments… because you don’t care for the expression in his eyes. You DID state that “the look in his eyes was absolutely evil”. I repeat, this is a dreadful thing to say about someone.

    I am quite familiar with the disease of alcoholism; it runs in my family and so I am knowledgable about it and the effect it has on the person who is addicted to it; also what it does to families. (By the grace of God I do not personally have trouble with alcoholism.) Even with this background, I would not presume to leap to the conclusion that an actor who was irritated by the questions of a pushy journalist was consuming it, and had an evil look in his eyes!!

    It is wrong to make an assumption like that. It isn’t OK for you to castigate and insult on one hand, and then follow it up with a pious proclamation you will pray for him!

  • Christine, you’re going off the deep end in your presumptions about Gibson. It’s called a cognitive distortion to imagine you can read minds and it would be a delusion of omniscience to believe you know what someone is drinking!

  • McClarey, if your interactions here lead you to hubris, you need a break. You cannot support the kingdom by being submissive to pride.

  • Fallon,

    I’m not supporting anybody’s comments about demonic possession in fact I’m not supporting anyone else’s posting but my own. I don’t know what your concept of sin or ecclesiology are, but insofar as Gibson is baptised, even though he has lapsed from union with the Pope, we see him as some kind of Catholic, someone who is part of the Mystical Body of Christ.

    As part of the mystical body, his actions cause disruption, rupture, and pain to us. His scandal hurts us. It reaches across the world and hurts our hearts. It is an attack. We need to pray for him for his sake but also to protect ourselves and others.

    From the CCC:

    II. RESPECT FOR THE DIGNITY OF PERSONS

    Respect for the souls of others: scandal

    2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

    2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”86 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.87

    2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

    Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.”88 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,89 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

    2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!”90

    This whole passage is Gibson in spades. His power is his celebrity and the good will he had built up while courting Catholics and other Christians to support, advertise, and attend his movie, “The Passion.” He made himself an example and those who claim he’s always been a bad example perhaps weren’t paying as much attention as those who followed the development of The Passion.

  • Perhaps Gibson has portrayed so many roles in his life that he has truly forgotten what he is really like and who he is. He has lost the power to know himself and, along with that, the power to repent. He is like a chameleon taking on the characteristics and conduct of the rogues he has portrayed. Sadly, he has become deranged. Only through the grace of God can he be restored. There are no human efforts that can save him except our prayers. I think right now, Satan is applauding Gibson’s stellar performance as a Roman soldier, yelling, jeering, and scourging Jesus. And that is not hyperbole.

  • Oh my. How is it that you can determine that Mel Gibson:

    1. has lost the power to know himself
    2. has lost the power to repent
    3. that he is deranged
    4. and that he is like one of the Roman soldiers, torturing Our Lord.

    I am truly dumbfounded that you can take it upon yourself to decide such things.

    What is this, open season on Mel Gibson?

    I am guessing it must make those of the Pharisaical persuasion feel really good to make such determinations.

    Please folks, just pray for Mel and leave the self righteous thoughts left unsaid. They can do a world of harm…

  • BooHoo mr. Tour!

    If you and the whole Mystical Body of Christ have been hurt by the actions of Mr. Gibson, then why do continue to draw all of Its members attention to it?

    You are demonstrating an exaggerated rigorism or scrupulosity, manifesting itself in a kind of Jansenistic Puritanism. The results of this are that you have accused Mr. Gibson of so many things that I believe that you are actually inciting others to hate him.

    You are obsessed with him and by him far too much. God will take care of Mr Gibson.

    The prescription for your ailment is to ask God to forgive YOUR sins, especially the unnecessary hatred you have spewed out here.

  • Irene, I think something in your post really hit the nail on the head.

    Many of the posters here are actually cloaking hatred with pious mutterings directing Mel what to do.

    What was it Our Lord said?

    “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.

    Who here is without sin?

  • Irene,

    The more you talk, the more you show how out of place you are in a Catholic forum, you’re just here for conflict, the very definition of an internet troll. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a member of the Gibson house church.

    Puritanism is like the extreme opposite pole of sexual licentiousness. To accuse me of Puritanism makes one wonder if you espouse the exact opposite extreme of ideology. If you read more of Aquinas, I’m sure he has plenty to say about that.

    Catholicism isn’t Puritanical or sexually licentious. It teaches that the marital union is GOOD, so good that its misuse outside of marriage is a sin. Gibson has ADVERTISED THIS MISUSE. Believe me, I don’t want to know other people’s business and it was not this blog that made me aware of it, it was Gibson’s own television appearances, seeking public approval. I am merely giving him the attention he so desperately seeks.

    I more commonly hear Puritanism called “Manichean,” in that it seems to say that the body is bad, which would make procreation and union bad.

    Just where exactly are you coming from, ideologically, anyway? You quoted Aquinas, but you don’t even respond to the substance of the Catechism. You either don’t believe adultery is even sinful, or you just don’t believe in the indissolubility of marriage. You are responding to me as if you have conflated all of the posts you don’t like and imagine that I wrote them all, which is unfair.

  • “Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him” (Luke 17:3).

    “As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear” (1 Timothy 5:20).

    “This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith” (Titus 1:13).

  • Tour, your second to last post directed at Irene is filled with so many assumptions (for which you have no basis of actual knowledge) accusations (which are unfounded and groundless) and exaggerations that I won’t bother to address them individually. It would take too much time.

    Seems to me you are for some reason consumed with an obssessive hatred of Mel Gibson. You write as though it is the end of the world that this man has fallen from grace. Do you ever pray for those in trouble without first spelling it out repeatedly, ad nauseam, what your *personal opinion* is, of their difficulties??

    Look to the heavens and contemplate God, and stop your public accusations about the troubles of a human being who you don’t know; he doesn’t know you; and I am guessing he wouldn’t want to either.

  • So Mr Tour, you’ve made clear that Mr G is a sinner. Is that news? Who is perfect? Where does this leave you? Are you so desolate that you can’t get over your disappointment that he isn’t the idol you imagined he was? Put not your faith in men. Are you a saint and have never sinned? Where is your public confession you seem to require?

    And, what about the Christian virtue of charity, and things like kindness, and gentleness? Has Mr G promoted himself as a saint? Never once that I know of. He admits to being a struggling Catholic soul like the rest of us (except for you and the other perfect people on the board). Have you ever once considered that maybe there is more (or less!) to the stories that the National Enquirer tells? Seems to me that’s not the best source for a Catholic to get accurate information for which to judge others.

    From the CCC:
    “The fruits of the Spirit are perfections that the Holy Spirit forms in us as the first fruits of eternal glory. The tradition of the Church lists twelve of them: “charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity.”

    Above all – Charity

    25 To conclude this Prologue, it is fitting to recall this pastoral principle stated by the Roman Catechism:

    The whole concern of doctrine and its teaching must be directed to the love that never ends. Whether something is proposed for belief, for hope or for action, the love of our Lord must always be made accessible, so that anyone can see that all the works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and have no other objective than to arrive at love.[19]

  • Bravo Elfriede! Charity does indeed transcend all.

    “the love of Our Lord must always be made accessible”.

    How will Mel Gibson come back to God’s love? By accusations and scorn and endless pointing of fingers? No… by prayers, tenacious prayers.

    In spite of all his difficulties, I am so sure Jesus loves him very much, as He loves us all, everyone one of us sinners.

  • Now now Tour, I see you have sunk to name calling. I find it amusing that now you are frothing at the mouth at me. Are you calling me a sexual pervert with all of that gobbilty gook that you wrote?

    I really pity that you are obviously suffering from something that you are choosing to wallow in and can find no charitable way to express yourself.

    My idealology is simply catholic. I have never confined myself to just condemnation of sinners though. My idealology says “hate the sin, love the sinner”.

    There are many quotes from the bible but you only choose the ones that crazy hell fire and brimstone preachers scream out to make people
    put more money in the collection.

    Get over this stuff before you become any more disturbed.

    It’s either that or “Grab your torch and pitch fork”!

    Plus you sure can dish it out, but can you take it? I welcome criticism. I will take yours under consideration if I can ever figure out what you were trying to say.

  • Well, I am on board with tour86rocker.

    I think someone here is a mole….to cause trouble.

    I am signing out of this site’s postings because now it is getting mean.

    All this article was meant to do was to show us this man needs his Christian family–the Church. We all do.

    Maybe, if we care at the time, we can all continue this conversation in heaven. It surely will be interesting to see how things pan out for all of us.

    Heaven bound, God-willing, Rosanna

  • Rosanna
    That’s presumption. Only the humble get to go there.
    Continue the conversation in Heaven? If Mel Gibson were there with you would you continue with Tour86 to berate him? I doubt it. Who is mean? All this covert aggression using God’s name to beat someone up is pretty stinky. Repent, Hell awaits…

  • You’re absolutely right Rosanna, this was very mean on some peoples part by repeated aggressive attacks against someone, by disguising it in false piety.

    Isn’t it strange how the perpetraters of all of this meaness are the most sensitive to much less than they inflict on others behind their backs.

  • Rosanna, I am wondering at the double standard here. You say the board is mean?? What about all the holier-than-thou stuff which it is apparently “OK” to post endlessly, then when some here stand up for the cause of charity and gentle Christian treatment of a man who needs prayers we are told that we are “moles” causing trouble. How absurd.

    All I know is that if I were Mel and in trouble, and all these strangers were shrieking at me to REPENT REPENT GET HUMBLE REPENT I would run the opposite direction with wild abandon.

    If you REALLY care about his soul, then shut up and get on your knees rather than posting piously about his transgressions.

  • it is sad.
    I feel for his true wife and his children.
    But Mr Gibson was a schismatic Catholic,disobedient to the Holy Father….and it led to his complete abandonment of Christianity.
    He has caused great scandal.
    May Jesus have mercy on his soul

  • Hellooo! His wife divorced him, not the other way around. What part she “served papers on him” is failing to register?

    Complete abandonment of Christianity? So are you saying he is pagan? This is not true. Are you saying that anyone who commits public sins is no longer a Catholic??? That is patently false. Mel Gibson certainly considers himself a Catholic. He thinks the Chair of Peter is vacant (sede-vacantist); he has not turned in his heart against the Roman Catholic Church. By your “logic” anyone who falls from the state of grace is no longer a Catholic, and THAT belief is heretical.

    Please get your facts straight.

  • Perplexed, I totally agree with pretty much all you say. However, aren’t sede-vacanist excomunicated, mainly by their own beliefs and not being in communion with the Holy See?

  • Seems to me this has to be judged on an individual basis, as only God knows a person’s beliefs or intentions.
    For instance, it was covered quite a bit in the news media, when Mel Gibson made the Passion, that he held sede vacantist beliefs (not known exactly what they are though, and as he hasn’t said, we have no right to assume) and I can’t recall any Bishops saying he was excommunicated. Therefore we have to assume he is in the Church. Personally I think he is.

  • perplexed, do you think mel’s father is a sede?

  • yes, I think so. But there are all kinds of sedes. They don’t all hold the same beliefs. So we can say someone is a sede, but we can’t really know their attitudes and beliefs, unless they say what they are.
    He has published stuff, but I have not read it.

  • I’m not Catholic (I’m a born-again Christian), but the truth is, Mel needs to be born-again spiritually like Jesus talked about to Nicodemus in John 3:3 where He said, “Unless a person is born-again of water & of The Spirit, they shall never enter the Kingdom of God.” I’m not his Judge, but I’m with Kirk Cameron when he says, “If someone doesn’t ACT like they’re a Christian, then it basically means they’re not! Period! End of story!” Furthermore, the problem I have with Catholicism is that I don’t need a priest to forgive me of my sins, when I already have one: Jesus Christ Himself(Pretty much cuts out the middleman, now doesn’t it?!)! Also, the Bible specifically tells us in Mathew 23:9 not to call ANYBODY “Father” except for our own earthly fathers & God Himself, period! Basically, the verse reads, “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.” So basically, when you refer to a Catholic priest as “Father so-and-so”, you’re basically disobeying God!
    Lastly, while I DO KNOW that THERE ARE some born-again Catholics inside the Catholic church, there’s also too much Mary worship going on inside there. I can tell you this, that Mary herself is no doubt looking down & is very disturbed by this! I have no doubt in my mind, that if she were here, she’d tell all these people who worship her so much inside the Catholic church to, “CUT IT OUT!” & worship her Son, Jesus, directly instead. And at the risk of offending some people, I’m here to tell you that The Pope can’t save you, Catholicism can’t save you, & only by being born again spiritually by asking Jesus into your heart, TURNING FROM & REPENTING of your sins, & putting your faith & trust in Him can you be saved! I’m sorry, but the Catholic church has gotten WAAAAAY too far off track from it’s founder, Paul’s, original vision. And I know one thing, when it comes to the three things that I described that the Catholic church is doing that NO CHRISTIAN–Catholic or not–should be doing, Paul would be, well(To make a bad pun!), appalled! ‘Nuff said!

    Sincerely,

    Van Miller

    Birmingham, Alabama

  • Cyberman, I guess you have a problem with the Church that Christ instituted. We were all one faith until the Reformation in the 1500’s. Christ said to his Apostles, “who sins you forgive, they are forgiven, who sins you retain they are retained.” There were no denominations when Christ started His Church. Those denominations were made by man. I see many going to therapists at 125.00 per hour. I go to the priest who Christ said I should go to and I come away with peace and sanctifying grace. It doesn’t cost me a dime. That is the way Christ wanted it. Do you argue with Him, who is all Divine and knowing? He knows that if we don’t have the humiility to tell someone our sins, we will not do anything about them. The passage, “go tell your sins to one another”, then why not a priest who Christ gave the power to forgive sins.

  • I agree that he needs our concern and our prayers, not all of the nasty comments and bashing that I’m seeing, especially the way that the media is running away with this. Oh, the blessed media who thrives on judgemental, “bad” news! Has any of you ever heard of someone being under demonic attack/oppression, even possession? Do you not think that just the fact that he gave us The Passion of The Christ, that he would be a prime target of the evil one? Or doesn’t anyone believe in the devil anymore!? I have worked very closely over the past year, hands on, with victims of demonic attack/oppression. In one severe case a monsignor under direction of an Exorcist had to perform more than one exorcism on a home that was experiencing things that you would only think to see in the movies! I personally feel that he is suffering from demonic oppression and is under attack. He shows all of the signs of this. He needs prayers of deliverance, as well as taking steps to seek out help from within the Catholic church. I wish that I myself could contact him with this information, and would be surprised if no one has yet offered this suggestion to him. I propose that an initiative be started to petition prayers for him, and to also offer up masses for him. It’s the least that we can do to show our gratitude for giving us The Passion of The Christ, a movie that was truly blessed by God.

  • I hate to see a gifted artist and someone that was an upstanding Catholic as evidented by the trials he went through for the Passion of the Christ to fall. Rather than judge, its probably better to pray for him. We need role models and we need for Mel to receive the good graces of God to help him through this time period in his personal life. He is lost and I pray that he finds his way back for the sake of himself and his children.

  • I think that Mel is a victim of Satan ever since he made the Passion movie. He was a fairly decent person up until then. As far as I know the alcoholism, verbal racial abuse and current stuff going on, has come about ever since the release of that movie. We do need to pray for him without a doubt, that he turns back to God, and turns his life around.

  • I don’t care what Mel Gibson has said or done, that is his personal business. He has to answer to God not to us for what he has said and done. He speaks his mind like most of us do, and Lord knows I’m not perfect. Just like the Jews, the Catholics, the Christians, the Pagans, and all races and sexes. He is scrutinized more because he is a public figure and that he made a movie that was controversial to some who don’t believe and that makes others to judge him and his Catholic faith. Our Catholic faith is strong and he is human like the rest of us are. It is easier for others to throw stones, he needs help. A true follower of Christ knows of my words and that is to forgive and pray for those who have lost their way from him. I pray for Mel to guide him back to our Father God and for him to get the help that he needs. He needs our prayers; I will never turn my back against him. I will be forever grateful to Mel Gibson for making the greatest movie ever The Passion Of The Christ.

  • Heavenly Father, Your word says that You will never leave us or forsake us. Send Your Holy Spirit to minister to Mel in quiet hours when he searches for peace. Let Your still, small voice whisper to him that he is significant in Your kingdom. Lord, I pray that you reveal your unchanging, unyielding love to him in a way that he will receive. Set him on the right path and use him for Your glory. Amen.

33 Responses to Hollywood Angelology

  • The movie looks demonic.

  • That pretty much eliminates this film for my viewing enjoyment.

    I’ll be watching A Man for All Seasons instead.

    Can I assume that the title of the movie is in reference to the demon Legion in the Holy Gospel of Saint Mark 5:9?

    And he asked him: What is thy name? And he saith to him: My name is Legion, for we are many.

  • Hollywood’s hatred for God is unlimited.

  • I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it. Maybe there’s some crazy plot twists and it turns out to be a good Christian film.

  • RR,

    Paul Bettany also starred as the Opus Dei albino monk assassin.

    Is there a pattern that I am detecting of this English actor?

  • I doubt it. These people absolutely hate God, and they admire Satan for rebelling against him – whether they see that as a reality or a myth, that is who and what they identify with.

  • Some people have pointed out that “the fallen angel” supporting his own messiah sounds like “making the audience root for the anti-Christ.” We have come to this.

  • Here’s a good quote:

    “So, it would appear that just about everything in this movie in relation to the Christian worldview upon which it is supposed to be based has been turned on its head. Now I understand that the producers are trying to spin this as a re-telling of the Old Testament Flood narrative with God giving up on mankind and effectively hitting the reset button, but in no way was God ever depicted as the bad guy in that scenario, so that analogy doesn’t hold up. This treatment of this worldview betrays either an unfamiliarity with the subject matter or an utter disdain for it. At this point one might think it would be time to ask what this says about the folks behind the production of this film, but there is something else that concerns me greater. Similar treatment of the Star Wars or Star Trek universes by a director would stir up a firestorm across the blogosphere the likes of which we have never seen. Yet in this case there is mostly silence. So, what does that say about us?”

    http://www.fusedfilm.com/2009/08/geekgasm-legion-who-are-the-good-guys-again/

  • As an aside, I’ve considered all the light-porn angels we see, such as in Victoria’s Secret ads, are good evidence for existence of the succubus…

  • HK,

    light-porn angels we see, such as in Victoria’s Secret ads, are good evidence for existence of the succubus

    Good catch on that one. I’m sure Victoria Secret won’t like that bit of info.

  • It also says,

    “So, we have a movie where the audience is asked to root for Satan as he tries to protect the Antichrist from being killed by God. Nice.”

    Yes, this is exactly what they want. They’ve been doing it through music for decades, and subtly through film, but now it is out in the open. It is out in the open because they know that now most people either agree with, or are indifferent to, their message – and that even the people who see it for what it is and are appalled by it will do absolutely nothing about it.

    They aren’t just mocking Christianity. They’re spitting in our faces. And there will be millions of fans of this, who have been prepared now for a generation to hate Christianity and above all the Catholic Church.

    I could say a lot more, but I’ll leave it at that.

  • Joe,

    I agree wholeheartedly.

    I could say a lot more, but I’ll leave it at that.

    That would be good for another post don’t you think?

    😉

  • “As an aside, I’ve considered all the light-porn angels we see, such as in Victoria’s Secret ads are good evidence for existence of the succubus…”

    agreed

  • Similar themes have been popular in video games for years, though that’s probably due to historical anti-Christian prejudice in Japanese culture.

  • Why would God try to prevent the second coming of Himself? Seems like a plot point thats either going to end up with a lame explanation or be completely ignored… which is what I’ll be doing to this movie.

  • Tito, the funny thing is, Bettany also played the Catholic doctor Stephen Maturin in Master and Commander with Russell Crowe.

    This story tilts as so very many windmills. The portrayal of God is obviously not a Christian one… what happened to the “for God so loved the world” stuff? What seems at least implied is the standard, superficial-yet-common view of God: angry, vengeful, ready to get medieval on your… you know what. (To be honest, I think many Christians have this view of the Father!) To apply Sheen’s famous remark about the Church more generally… there are many who oppose Christianity, but only a few of them really understand that which they are opposing.

  • “The portrayal of God is obviously not a Christian one…”

    That really depends. I believe the makers of this film fully intend for the audience to accept in their minds that this is the one God, the God of Jews, Christians, Muslims and assorted sects and cults, the God that has been called “Yaweh” and “Jehova.”

    By virtue of what they propose God is doing, no, is not our God. But that isn’t the point. The harm will be done regardless. Movies such as this are both caused by, and contribute to, the moral, spiritual and intellectual degeneracy of our time. I believe this movie has been created to give the open and violent enemies of God, and the open admirers of Satan, something to salivate over. It is a celebration of rebellion against the one true God, who it turns out was a mean guy all along – don’t you see, that Satan guy had the right idea.

    It would be a grave and foolish mistake – and I don’t accuse you or anyone else here of this, mind you – to shrug this off, or get a laugh out of it. At no point in Scripture did God find blasphemy amusing, at no point has the Church found it amusing. It is always something to be taken with the utmost seriousness.

    Finally, I do believe that God is capable of anger, vengeance, and “getting medieval” – but also, as we know, of infinite mercy and love. These are not mutual exclusives. Only to modern man have they become so.

  • Annoys me that 1) it would be *easy* to make this movie OK with at least shallow Christian mythos and 2) they are STILL making everything look like the CGI of The Mummy.

    Lazy.

    To both.

  • One could, in theory, say this is a Gnostic film, and that would be why “God” would oppose the second coming, but it really feels more as if it is an Antichrist film

  • Henry, I thought the same thing initially, but there is no “salvation through esoteric knowledge” theme… then I thought it was simply Manichaean or an even more basic dualism… then I concluded that I was giving the screenwriter et al. *far* too much credit and that the story is too superficial to merit too close a philosophical analysis.

    Joe, I appreciate your comments; I’m certainly not laughing the movie off… as I noted in the OP, I was dumbfounded by the premises. And I agree that God is capable of something analogous to anger… my concern is that we are once again seeing an implicit dichotomy between the OT and NT: the God who seeks to wipe out humanity reminds people — naturally — of the God of the flood, but far too many people fail to realize that the God of the OT is a God of mercy & love… we didn’t have to wait until Jesus to find that out! If you read the Psalms, Hosea or even “boring” Deuteronomy God’s love for His people is apparent and obvious. One of my many concerns about this film is that it will reinforce that false stereotype, even for those who see the more obvious errors in the storyline.

  • I think it hilarious that the new Messiah is discovered in a diner in New Mexico. Does anyone have an idea of which diner in which town?

    There is a level of absurdity which is too far out to criticize or to make mock of.

  • IIRC from the trailer, the town’s sign indicates that it’s named “Paradise”.

    Uh-huh.

  • Chris,

    I thought there could be a sense of inspiration from Pullman going on here, which would both allow for Gnosticism, and allow for the scriptwriter to include it without knowing what he/she is doing.

  • “I think it hilarious that the new Messiah is discovered in a diner in New Mexico.”

    Is his first line “Can I finish my waffle?”

  • I think it hilarious that the new Messiah is discovered in a diner in New Mexico.

    So much for returning in glory.

  • well, Hollywood has hit a new low, really low. They must be getting very desparate at trying to shock us. We all need to write a letter-to-the-editor of our local news papers urging christians, jews and muslims not to spend one dime on this movie that encourages us to rebel against God and side with fallen angels who are supposedly sticking up for us. Sure…thats going to happen.

  • Given the many *fake* “Christian protests” that have gone down, we don’t want to do that.

    Perhaps, more effectively, we could tell a better story?

  • i just saw the movie last night, and the angels certainly did look demonic, and with the due consideration that they “possessed” human bodies in order to take out the “new messiah”… well, at least it explains why they can be killed, i guess. the archangel gabriel is sent to actually kill the baby, which bothered me more than almost anything else in the plot line. the movie itself was cheesy and didn’t give any regard to the actual biblical stories, one that it even references. i was still resting under the impression that God has promised that He will never kill his children off again.

    but in the end, He is supposed to have come to his senses because of saint michael and realized that humanity is still good and He still loves them, so i suppose it has a happy ending after all.

  • also, i feel it important to add that the angels who possessed aforementioned bodies came with flies, which was, i was always taught, a sign or demons/satan. this is just a bad movie based shallowly on the end of days, with a few out-of-context biblical references and some “get your life straight” lines sprinkled in.

    overall… i wouldn’t give it much more thought than given to constantine or any number of movies fitting the same motif.

  • Emma,

    Thanks for the update! Interesting ending as you said.

    Chris B.,

    Tito, the funny thing is, Bettany also played the Catholic doctor Stephen Maturin in Master and Commander with Russell Cr

    Stephen played a cynical character that doubted and questioned tradition. His only saving character trait was that he helped secure the capture of the French frigate while disregarding his selfish impulse of continuing his naturalist research.

  • Finally saw it. I don’t think it was really anti-Christian. Despite the premise, religion doesn’t feature prominently. You’d think there’d at least be some religious imagery. Nothing. It must’ve been one of the dumbest movies I’ve ever seen. There’s so many holes in the story you wonder if the writers even thought this through. Watched it with my mother who was laughing. It’s that ridiculous.

  • Better than Hollywood angelology, or even the new novel Angelology, is a true life story of a musician and a life with angels and their teachings for the world today.

    See it at Amazon. Angels on My Stage: The True Story of Eddie Benitez

4 Responses to Mother Earth Strikes Back

No Islamic Holy Sites Destroyed in 2012 Movie, Fear of Fatwa

Thursday, November 5, AD 2009

Grand Mosque of Mecca

Due to the fear of a death threat in the form of a fatwa from Muslim scholars, movie director Roland Emmerich chose not to shoot any scenes depicting the destruction of Islamic holy sites in his new end-of-the-world film, 2012.  Though Roland Emmerich says this did not stop him when filming scenes depicting the destruction of Christian landmarks such as the Sistine Chapel, Saint Peter’s Basilica, and the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro.  He wanted to make sure his views of opposition to “organized religion” were not soft-pedaled in the movie 2012.

Of course, “organized religion” is a euphemism for the apostolic churches of the Catholic and Orthodox faiths.  Hence why you’ll see the dome of Saint Peter’s Basilica topple over in the 2012 film and not the Ka’aba inside the Grand Mosque of Mecca collapse.

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54 Responses to No Islamic Holy Sites Destroyed in 2012 Movie, Fear of Fatwa

  • They wont show any Jewish holy sites going up in smoke either.

  • I understand your frustration, but things are not exactly how you have presented. Hollywood doesn’t miss an opportunity or is hardly reluctant in its oft ill portrayal of Muslims as terrorists hell bent on destroying the world more than it does to any other organised religion.

    Hollywood as an industry works on what is normal, acceptable and what will sell. It will produce a movie like Bruno which may have offended some groups of poeple but whilst doing so, they ensure they stay just within what is acceptable by general public. Likewise, when it comes to Muslims it assesses what will sell based on what is acceptable. In the Muslim world certain things to do with thier faith are not acceptable, its not just a case of poeple being offended and rioting but potential ban on the movie by the muslim governments.

    We can’t imagine a movie showing destruction of kaba or acting the role of the Prophet being produced let alone shown anywhere in the Muslim world. Can we say the same about the Christian world? Britian and America as Christian countries have never been reluctant to or fear any backlash in what maybe called abuse of sacred religious aspects in the name of art, film, drama? The people have become desensatised and just don’t care anymore even if it is Jesus being shown as a fornicator. Surely you can’t blame the Muslims for this?

  • What caught my eye about Mr. Emmerich is that he openly admitted that he was afraid for his life and it wasn’t worth it to depict an Islamic holy site being destroyed.

    But still wimpy.

  • Salman,

    I’d have to disagree with you there.

    Christians don’t go out and destroy property and issue death threats AND carry them out.

    And no Christian government, if there existed one in the 20th or 21st century has banned a film that offended Christians.

  • Salman,

    On your point of Hollywood portraying Islam in a negative light, it has not been explicitly done. But they have done so implicitly such in the movie True Lies and in the tv miniseries 24.

    Though they were depictions of individual Muslims in general and not Islamic holy sites or Muhammad in particular.

  • Hollywood doesn’t miss an opportunity or is hardly reluctant in its oft ill portrayal of Muslims as terrorists hell bent on destroying the world more than it does to any other organised religion.

    As John McEnroe would say, you cannot be serious. No better example of the ridiculous pc atmosphere is the move version of Sum of All Fears, where the evil villains went from Muslims in the book to white skinheads in the film. The bad guys on 24 are almost always some shadowy, white-led corporation. Whenever there are Islamic bad guys, it’s usually revealed that some pucker-faced white dude is the guy pulling the strings.

  • The very real silver lining: it’s a backhanded but genuine compliment to the overwhelmingly civilized behavior of Catholics.

  • Interesting article. As for Emmerich, it took guts to say that, assuming he meant it as an accusation. If he meant it as a warning to fellow Westerners not to rock the boat, it’s pathetic.

  • I look at this as – we must be doing something right! I can care less that hollywood has a bias – it has and always will. The movies that do talk truth will be the ones I go to see. I saw th previews to this and thought 2012 and thought here we go again. I am sure the twist at the end will be that we as humans didn’t enough to stop global warming and that we should have slowed our population down enough to reduce our carbon signature. If only we ate less meat this wouldn’t have happened. Sheesh…

  • I think you are reading too much into the supposed ‘anti-Christian’ content of this movie. While scared sites do meet destruction, the movie is, after all, about the End of the World. We would expect sites like these to be destroyed, as part of the movie’s theme, and also for general ‘shock value’.

    I do agree that his declaration about Muslim holy sites is cowardly, but he, at least, admits it.

  • NauticaMongoose,

    Its under the surface.

    Their bias comes out that they can do this to Christian holy sites with impunity unlike Muslim holy sites.

  • The fact that taco stands being destroyed was not actually depicted in the movie is sheer proof that the movie maker harbors great respect, if not, great fear of Tito Taco Man, who might have issued a fatwa against him!

    Fear the Taco Man; fear Tito!

  • e.,

    I used to own and operate a taco stand.

    You know my feelings very well!

  • I really don’t understand how the dome of St. Peter’s is able to fall to its side and roll all the way out into the square to crush the masses of people gathered there… I mean, it’s a *long* way from the dome to the front of the church!

  • Maybe there’s some kind of time/space distortion in Hollywood that fundamentally alters the laws of physics there?

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  • “Calling director Emmerich a “coward,” a blogger for The American Catholic writes, “This is just another example of Hollywood picking on us Christians. ‘Us’ Christians call this behavior bigotry in the form of Christophobia. More commonly known as anti-Christian or more specifically anti-Catholicism in the case of this film.” The blogger goes on to note that Emmerich was concerned about having a fatwa (essentially a Muslim death threat) on his head.”

    Great.

    Tito Taco just expanded his taco stand.

    Congratz.

  • @ Tito :

    Brother,
    We, Muslim also accept that Jesus( Peace Be Upon Him ) was a Prophet of God and I would like to inform you that Islam equally forbids depiction of Jesus or David or Moses or any other Prophet in any form. I would also like to inform you that movies that are offending to Christians like The Da Vinci Code were not allowed to be screened in Pakistan and Iran which are Muslim States ….
    About the fact that no Christian state has banned such a movie is not our problem …. its up to the Christians to raise their voice and ask their Governments to Ban such films. If your leaders are don’t care about it, what can ‘we’ the Muslims do ??
    Just look around and see what resources the Christians have … you are a hundred times ahead then Muslims in many aspects consider Education, Electronic Media, Technology, Research and Development, etc etc …. yet with all those advantages if you cant make your point clear … its a pity ….

  • Osama,

    I understand what you are saying. Christians appreciate the fact that Pakistan and Iran banned the film as well as other Maghreb and south Asian.

    We do protest in a civilized manner via all of our resources.

    We live in a civilized society that allows for dissent in a peaceful manner. At most we will organize marches and demonstrations but we will not resort to violence.

    After those steps are procured and Hollywood still insists, and does so, in distributing such blasphemous films then we have done what we could and it is in the hands our Father after that.

    So we execute our final step of prayer, prayer, and more prayer.

    This is the mystery of iniquity that will be revealed to us in the last days. But until that happens we completely place our trust in Him with abiding joy and love.

    Thank you for engaging in this dialogue and hope you return again in the future when our paths cross again.

    After all we are sons of Abraham via Noah descended from Adam and are brothers in God.

    Tito

  • I do agree with most of the comments above.

    Hollywood is just a business. They will produce movies they think people want to see, hoping to make a profit.

    If we do not agree with what is shown ( and – or not shown) in a particular movie, we can decide not to support it. Money walks. No money, no movies.

    In the light of Emmerich’s decision to show the destruction of Holy Christian symbols in 2012, I have decided to not see this movie. I will also tell my family & friends about it so that they can decide for themselves if they will support that movie or not.

  • Hi Osama and Salman, your comments are welcomed, we need more such voices and louder to make a fruitfull and meaningfull dialaogues. After all, as Tito says, we are brothers in God.
    Regards,
    Bruce

  • As it appears some of our commenters are not accustomed to the American system I think it needs to be pointed out that although the U.S. has a majority Christian population and was founded on principles that stemmed from Christian thought, it is a secular, not a Christian state. There is no “official” faith singled out for special protection. While this may result in some extremely distasteful things being said, published, filmed, and televised, it’s necessary to recognize that the same freedom that allows Hollywood filmmakers to wallow in anti-Christian images allows Christians and everybody else to freely discuss and advocate for their beliefs. We are wary of bans even when the lack thereof allows offensive speech and images; when you start banning the communication of certain ideas it tends to become that much easier to ban all the others, your own included.

    But this isn’t about official bans or what Christians should do to get more respect from the film industry; it’s about a climate of fear that silences any discussion of Islam, reasoned or otherwise, that subjects it to the same scrutiny as any other belief system. It’s a fear that the laws that are supposed to preserve our freedom of speech are insufficient to protect us against the lawless.

    That is what is most troubling–that a filmmaker so accustomed to saying what he likes that he thinks nothing of showing images that disturb or offend the majority of his audience can be so completely cowed by a violent minority that he will not speak up even when he might have something important to say.

    Theo Van Gogh spoke up, and paid for it with his life. It appears few of his colleagues are willing to exercise that freedom if it puts their necks on the line. Give Emmerich credit for at least acknowledging that.

  • Interesting. He hates “organized religion” but for some reason makes sure that those who practice Islam survive the end of the world in his movie “2012”

    His irrational hatred of Christianity and Catholicism in particular, winds up with him making the largest pro-Islamic propaganda film in the history of mankind – despite him hating “organized religion” – the message of the movie is clear: If you wish to survive the end of the world, you got to join Islam.

    Very nice. Way to go.

    Irrational bigotry always leads to irrational consequences.

  • Osama —

    Jesus was/is not a PROPHET, he is God incarnate. I am sorry but your religion is a counterfeit that has some of the characteristics of the true faith — just twisted ever so slightly into something that is profoundly untrue. Please accept Christ for who he is and save yourself while you may still have time.

  • I saw this movie today, at hubby’s insistence. Don’t waste your time or money on it. Yeah, the special effects are great but the plot and acting are pretty lame, and laughably so at times, plus the movie goes on WAY too long.

    If this is “the largest pro-Islamic propaganda film in the history of mankind,” I hardly noticed, probably because I was too busy snickering at all the over-the-top escapes and disaster flick cliches 🙂

  • Also, it seems to me that the religion(s) to join if you want to survive the end of the world in this movie would be either Buddhism or (SPOILER ALERT) any religion practiced in Africa, which actually does have a lot of Catholics as well as Muslims and adherents of native faiths.

  • Ronald did it again. This movie, 2012, looks awesome. I don’t think I can wait until it comes out. The trailor is mind blowing. Finally a film to spark the imagination.

  • This is so pathetic. It seems to me you’re more upset that Islamic holy sites were not destroyed in the movie. The simple fact of the matter is that Hollywood is run by Jews. That’s not an uncharitable statement. I wonder why you chose not to insist that the Wailing Wall was not destroyed as well? The demonization and degradation of Christianity and Islam by Jewish fanatics is nothing new. Yet where are the Christians when it comes to making their voices heard?
    Tito also makes some atrocious fallacies in his condescending statements. Civilized? My friend, westerners have and still are amongst the most violent and genocidal people in human history. Babbling about fatwas while going around the world invading countries and slaughtering millions based on a pack of lies? Hypocrisy and bad comedy at its best.
    Pick up a history book sometime.

  • Unimpressed,

    Straw man arguments all around.

    So much straw I could start a bon fire.

    As far as your statements are concerned:

    1. I am pointing out that Hollywood remains largely anti-Christian, more specifically, anti-Catholic.

    In the context of the film and the statements made by the director it is clearly evident that his hatred for Catholicism.

    2. Genocides? You’re referring to “Westerners”, I am defending the Catholic faith.

    There is a stark difference. Remember the first genocide was done by the Turkish Muslims when they eliminated 1.5 million Armenian Christians in the late 19th and early 20th century.

    Are they “Western”?

  • “Babbling about fatwas while going around the world invading countries and slaughtering millions”

    Actually that is not a bad summary of the history of Islamic imperialism. Of course it ignores the positive aspects of Islamic culture as you ignore the positive aspects of the history of Jews and Christians.

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  • Hmmm … you mean the Ku Klux Klan does not terrorize in the name of Christ? Obviously Muslims are very serious about their faith. Perhaps Christians should be as devoted to theirs?

  • Bernice,

    Know your history or don’t say anything at all.

    The KKK equally hated Catholics as much as blacks.

    Catholic churches were bombed and Catholics were terrorized in general.

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  • you say “What? You thought it was a recent phenomenon? Muslims have been waging war against non-Muslims since Mohammad started their religion, but that’s for another day).” so you totally ignore that All non-muslims started wars against Muslims ,also at current time ,whose countries are invaded and destroyed ? Iraq,Afghanistan ,Egypt was occuppied by british christians ,Somalia by France ,Algeria was occupied for 300 year ,about 3 Million Muslims were killed there in genocide by Frensh Christians ,Italy is no Different it Invaded Lybia ,need more ?

  • Ahmed,

    The Middle East was Christian for 600 years before Muhammad arrived.

    Get your facts straight before spouting off nonsense.

  • Hi, Tito,

    To put the record straight, the part of Arabia where Muhammed(pbuh) was born, had just a sprinkling of Christians but a had a number of tribes who were Jews.
    And regarding persecution, The number of practising Coptic Christians in Middle East shows that they were allowed the freedom of choosing and practising their religion.

  • Ragsayed,

    The number of practicing Copts used to be over 90% of the population.

    Years of persecution have whittled their numbers down to 10%.

  • Hi Tito,

    U have got it wrong the practising copts were abt 15% only , the other were worshippers of different Gods like Laat, Uzza, Mannat etc. Wouldn’t it be fair to say that , each major religion had some or the other leader who perpetuated atrocities in name of religion. If u talk abt Turkey then u also have to remember that after 600 yrs of rule when the christians conquered Spain all the muslims were slain there too.

    I am not justifying any of the genocides but just want to make clear that any kind of killings in name of religion is done by the proponents not saanctioned by that religion. The same yardstick should be applied to all.

  • Some times I think Catholics, Christians, and my fellow Americans are jealous, in a silly sort a way. For the most part we have nothing serious to complain about, so they have to convince themselves they are under attack by Hollywood, of all things.

    I have to ask what was so civilized about US policy that has resulted in the deaths of Muslims, deaths that many Christians seem to feel not worth counting post WWII. By supporting the creation of the modern State of Israel in the manner it was. Propping up an Iranian monarch. Arming both Iran in Iraq in propagated by the US. Bad as it is radical Muslims kill because of they interpret their holy book, what drove US policy? Worshiping the God almighty dollar?

  • Ragsayed,

    The Muslims in Spain were expelled. Besides, it was Christian before it was Muslim.

    As for Egypt, the See of Alexandria is one of the oldest sees in the world. It was overwhelmingly Copt before the Muslims came in.

    Don,

    Relativism is your god, not ours.

  • Hi Tito,
    The muslims in Spain were not expelled, they were put to death to the last muslim by The Crusaders in the period of 21 days.

    Regarding Spain being Christian b4 Muslims conquered it, yes it is a fact. But it is also true in the 600 yrs of Muslim rule there was never a mass execution or expulsion of the christians.

    Always get ur facts right b4 commenting.

  • Rizwan,

    The Crusaders were never in Spain.

    The Muslims persecuted both Christians and Jews.

  • The only religions which you can ridicule without fear of any reaction seems to be Christianity and eastern religions.

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  • Osama and salmon,

    Thank you for your dignified responses. I am a Christian, not a Muslim, but you are showing more grace and dignity than most of the “Christians” on this site. Please don’t listen to ignorant comments that plead for you to mend your views on Islam religion. We have all found God, and He is the same. Allah, Jesus, He is the same. We should honor our similarities and celebrate our differences. No human has the right to tell another how to think, act, or feel. Jesus knows this. Some of you should learn to follow His lead.

  • I’m not sure why Emmerich had to destroy any religious landmarks or symbols in the film. I sensed a degree of derision when the senior American official on the ark made a comment about the Italian prime minister coping with the imminent disaster with ‘prayer’, then showing thousands of people getting crushed under the rubble of St Peter’s. I would have liked to have seen some casinos, adult film studios and credit card bank corporate headquarters crumble instead. It felt like the film was presenting a message that prayer is meaningless. I respect people who don’t believe in a higher power but I certainly believe that it helped my infant son many years ago when he was fighting for his life and continues to help me today. Anyway, I hope Emmerich will steer away from this type of controversy in future film projects.

  • ” Osama Says:
    Thursday, November 12, 2009 A.D. at 1:19 am
    @ Tito :

    Brother,
    We, Muslim also accept that Jesus( Peace Be Upon Him ) was a Prophet of God and I would like to inform you that Islam equally forbids depiction of Jesus or David or Moses or any other Prophet in any form. I would also like to inform you that movies that are offending to Christians like The Da Vinci Code were not allowed to be screened in Pakistan and Iran which are Muslim States ….
    About the fact that no Christian state has banned such a movie is not our problem …. its up to the Christians to raise their voice and ask their Governments to Ban such films. If your leaders are don’t care about it, what can ‘we’ the Muslims do ??
    Just look around and see what resources the Christians have … you are a hundred times ahead then Muslims in many aspects consider Education, Electronic Media, Technology, Research and Development, etc etc …. yet with all those advantages if you cant make your point clear … its a pity …. ”

    Salaam Alekum Osama. In Islam Issa ( Jesus ) PBUH is a Prophet of Allah the merciful and the compassionate that is quite true, but very many Muslims when in communication with Western audiences seem to go out of their way to omit the very important fact that in Islam, Issa is not God’s son and to claim that he is God’s son would be a major heresy in Islam, in that the Noble Koran in Islam is regarded as the exact word of God and is the final authority in Islamic law and theology. And a claim that Issa is God’s son would run slam bang in to Surah 112

    Translations of the Qur’an, Surah 112:
    AL-IKHLAS (SINCERITY)

    Total Verses: 4
    Revealed At: MAKKA
    112.001
    YUSUFALI: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
    PICKTHAL: Say: He is Allah, the One!
    SHAKIR: Say: He, Allah, is One.
    112.002
    YUSUFALI: Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
    PICKTHAL: Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
    SHAKIR: Allah is He on Whom all depend.
    112.003
    YUSUFALI: He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
    PICKTHAL: He begetteth not nor was begotten.
    SHAKIR: He begets not, nor is He begotten.
    112.004
    YUSUFALI: And there is none like unto Him.
    PICKTHAL: And there is none comparable unto Him.
    SHAKIR: And none is like Him.

    Why do Muslims act in this manner in relation to describing the position of the Prophet Issa in Islam and my view is that in many cases they assume often correctly that many Westerners will have little detailed knowledge of Christianity and know next to nothing about Islam and such Muslims conclude that they can trick Westerners in to believing that Jesus ( Issa ) holds the exact same position in Islam as he does in Christianity. Also, I would suggest to you that Pakistan and Iran are not Muslim states, they are merely countries where the majority of the population are of the Muslim religion, which is a very different thing, since a conceptual idea of Islam is to be aware of the imperfection of mankind and to show the mercy of God to the sinner and not to cast him or her adrift from the Islamic community, so for sure good and bad the majority of the population of Pakistan and Iran are Muslims. To say Pakistan and Iran are Muslim States is something seriously different. For example, the Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him, sent certain of his companions abroad to seek sanctuary and support from a Christian King in Africa thus establishing a principle that if people are legitimate and honorable they may seek the protection of just leaders. If the Prophet Mohammad should seek protection for his companions from a King who was foreign King in a foreign land, how much more so, for example should the Baha’i in Iran have a right to have the Government of Iran protect them in their own country. If a government will not protect its own people and even encourages their persecution, how could it claim to be Islamic ? As for banning films, such as the Da Vinci Code, where is the authority derived from the Koran to do this and furthermore if you wish to ban depictions of Prophets such as for example the Prophet Mohammad, why allow any films or photographs of real people or actors playing roles, since my understanding is if one wants to follow an interpretation of Islam that would ban a depiction of the Prophet Mohammad, it would also require that pictures of human-beings be banned.

  • the world wil never end that way because god said he would never flood the earth ..in he said when the world end we will see him ..wwe cant listen to men or people that said this cause people are born everyday in we will never no when time is here,

  • Hi,
    I’ll present you with a simple math. If emmerich did put in his film collapses of islamic holy places, he will loose much. 90 % of the 1 billion muslims will not watch his film, coz they are devoted fanatic muslims who will not be happy with it..On the contrary, by putting in collapses of vatican churches, his loosing risk was only made by small percentage of devoted fanatic catholics all over the world { less than 5 % }, the rest are much more tolerant. As for the question why he didnt put in the destruction of jewish holy places, most of the hollywood producers are jewish, arent them? Its only business as usual pal………..

  • Hermione,

    That is simply rubbish.

    Equating Catholic “fanatics” on the level of Muslims is part of the anti-Catholic smear campaign.

  • Tito,
    you miss the point. the point is, its business, just a business as other fictious films. by mentioning catholics majority are much more tolerant, does it mean its an ‘anti’ campaign? Or maybe the sentence could be altered this way : on the contrary, by putting in collapses of vatican churches, he will not loose much, coz catholics majority are of much more tolerant.

Pray for Larry David, Creator of Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm

Wednesday, October 28, AD 2009

[Warning: Vile language in this posting.]

Larry David Jerry Seinfeld

Larry David is the creative producer of NBC’s Seinfeld and HBO’s Curb Your Enthusiam.  Over the weekend in an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm he relieves himself on the picture of Jesus.  The details and context of the episode are not worth explaining due to the unfortunate attack on God and our Christian faith by this depraved human being.

Like so many in Hollywood, anti-Christian, more specifically, anti-Catholicism, is still prevalent among many movers and shakers.  Imagine if they would even consider insulting the founder of Islam, Mohammad, as such?  Not in a million years.

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90 Responses to Pray for Larry David, Creator of Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm

  • Tito:

    While I admire the spirit with which you intended the posting of this entry, doesn’t doing so simply allows for free publicity of the very depraved act you are (quite rightly, of course) protesting?

    In other words, these days, it is this kind of free publicity that such folks crave because the controversy it generates (particularly, amongst the religious) are exactly the kind that promote their projects (in this case, a television series) amongst the general populace, potentially leading to more expanded viewership.

    Myself being aware of such tactics personally, I hardly give them the satisfaction by engaging in such action, which would only serve to promote their utterly repulsive objectives.

  • I don’t understand. They should receive
    publicity – lots of negative publicity .
    They cannot be allowed to get away with this .

    Its not just the one episode, its a whole
    series of things, and the immorality and
    violence as a whole in Hollywood .
    Pray that God intervenes and that there will
    be changes .

  • I like how you say they wouldn’t do this to any other religion but no other religion is constantly claiming to find ‘weeping’ icons.

    IT’S CALLED SATIRE AND IT IS FUNNY

    I know you’re not going ot post this.

  • In your gloss, such an action (for instance, this display of outrage demonstrated by Tito’s post) would seem like negative publicity insofar as those particularly religious are concerned; however, that is not entirely the case especially with respect to the general masses, which such controversies as this specifically target.

    There is nothing more reliable than counting on this kind of outrage by such religious folks, which these controversies (in particular, this kind of media attention) generally depend.

    In fact, this is what the network strategists typically count on in order to boost viewership, especially in instances where it appears to be declining.

    Put it this way, if only members of the religious community would not respond in kind to such tactics in this manner and simply altogether ignore it, they would perhaps cease resorting to this kind of tactic.

    However, some are so predictable in the kind of reaction typically expected from them due to this already age-old maneuver that religious zealots (while seeming to do the right thing) ironically play right into the hands of these seemingly clever network strategists by inadvertently giving them exactly the kind of free publicity such media folks originally sought by employing such a tactic.

    In other words:

    “How do the Hollywood types boost up viewership for our shows?”

    Simple: Attack members of the religious communities by doing something controversial that will undoubtedly offend them.

    Their outrage will not only guarantee publicity for the shows themselves to a attract a much wider audience but also, what’s even more, it’ll be free!

    Ingenious when you think about it since what could be more reliable (and, consequently, more effective) than that outrage which such media tactics depends?

    The Da Vinci Code is a prime example.

    There were hundreds of folks I know (through various fraternal and academic associations) who, if not for such outrage, would have hardly been interested in seeing that very movie. However, because of the overwhelming reaction of several Christian communities, it generated such interest amongst them to actually see that movie, which is precisely the kind of publicity these media moguls were counting on.

  • Matt

    May I direct your attention to the following site:

    http://www.miraclesofislam.com/

  • e.,

    Like you continue to post comments and attract more attention?

  • Tito:

    My posting comments is not the same as your having created an entry that actually gives the kind of free publicity the show itself craves. In fact, it is moot since harm has already been done by your having already created the entry itself.

    Besides, my purpose is to expose this tactic so that a greater awareness of how these folks think and why they do what they do comes to light.

    Again, I don’t fault you for doing so; it really isn’t your fault since you were only doing what you considered right in light of the situation.

    How could you know that you were actually playing (even if unwittingly) right into the hands of some rather devious reprobates?

    If anything, you were only doing what every good Catholic these days don’t (unfortunately): take one’s Catholic Faith seriously.

    This is precisely why (as you rightly asserted within the context of your own entry) Hollywood would not dare insult Islam but have no qualms whatsoever about insulting Catholicism.

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  • Larry David has condemned himself by his actions. Pissing on a picture of Jesus is usually a last phase action of a demon who having seen the light, willfully challenges it instead of repenting. Now since Christianity is true, Larry has indeed messed with the Holy Spirit. Bleating to the press about how unfair it is that the sensibilities of other religions are spared is beside the point, as the Devil has no time for them.

  • Anyone who follows CURB knows that Larry David ridicules Judaism far more than any other religion. I urge anyone who takes offence (and most will probably have not even seen this particular episode) to sit down and watch the previous 6 series of the show and you might then understand the context. You will then be in a better position to pass judgement and decide whether to be offended.

    In fact, if all you ‘religious types’ stayed in your houses and watched more shows like this rather than going out to spread hate & prejudice then the world would be a better place.

    At last, more and more people are finally coming to see the truth that religion is a scam and deserves no respect.

    Good people will always do good things, evil people will always do evil things…it takes religion to make good people do evil things.

  • “Good people will always do good things, evil people will always do evil things…it takes religion to make good people do evil things.”

    This is quite possibly the stupidest, shallowest thing atheists say.

    How do you even know what “good” is? You have no moral compass, man to you is nothing but an animal. We eat animals. Animals eat each other. The law of the jungle does not know goodness or evil, but only survival and efficiency.

    I have watched Curb, I used to be a fan – used to be, before this disgusting outrage. I will never watch the show again.

    Do you even know the slightest thing about Jesus Christ? You expect us to know about some stupid show on HBO when your knowledge of the person being desecrated is probably based on 10 second sound bites?

  • Shmohawk,

    Just because he ridicules his own faith, doesn’t give him the right to ridicule someone else’s.

    You have a false sense of logic here without an ounce of reason.

  • Also…

    “it takes religion to make good people do evil things”

    How stupid do you have to be to even repeat something like this? Good people do good things. Someone who does evil over and over again is evil. A “religious” person who does evil things is evil, period.

  • @Tito, do you really want to live in a society where it’s only ok to poke fun at yourself? Allow me to Godwin this conversation: would you criticize Hitler? By your logic, you’d have to be a Nazi to do so.

  • Anonymous,

    Nazi’s were the governing party of Germany.

    You get to choose to remain a Catholic or not.

    You need to work out your philosophical arguments out before present them as a intellectual discourse.

    By the way, we rarely respond to people who sign in as anonymous, so I did you a favor.

  • Larry David is not a Christian. The people who watched that episode and were amused by it most likely are not Christians. As non-Christians, they are not obligated in any way to show reverence or even respect for your god because they do not believe in or worship your god. See how that works? The Constitution gives you the right to worship as you please, but that’s all. It does not give you the right to insist that others — even people of different religions or no religion — show you some extra measure of respect because of your beliefs.

    What you self-righteously and erroneously identify as “anti-Christian” or “anti-Catholic” is nothing more than a reflection of your own arrogance. Just because someone does not share your belief and chooses to find humor in your religion does not mean that person is “anti” anything — it just means that person does not believe as you do. It’s a big, cold world, and in it, people have many different beliefs and world views. That they do not agree with yours does not make them any less valid, nor does it mean they are actively opposed to your beliefs or that they are in some way persecuting you.

    I know it’s difficult for people who base their lives on unprovable beliefs that contradict reality to do this, but you Christians really need to grow up and understand that others are free to disagree with you, believe different things, and to say whatever they please about your beliefs, and that when they do that it does not mean that they are somehow morally inferior to you. It’s a free country, and in a free country people get offended. The best defense for this is to develop a thick skin. The United States does not exist to serve Christianity; it is an entirely secular nation in which no religion is officially recognized and all religions — or lack of religion — are allowed. What Christians so often identify as persecution is nothing more than the natural reaction of others to their arrogance and pious sense of entitlement and to their constant efforts to impose their beliefs on EVERYONE and to turn America into something it is not and never has been. Personal beliefs are just that — PERSONAL. They should be kept that way.

    If you find Larry David’s humor offensive, then don’t watch Larry David’s show. Whether or not other people watch and enjoy his show is none of your damned business.

  • Ray Garton,

    It’s amazing you took time out to tell us that it’s a free country and that our beliefs are unprovable.

    If so, why bother?

    In Jesus, Mary, & Joseph,

    Tito

  • You must not have read my entire post. I assume you already know it’s a free country and your beliefs are unprovable. My point was that you Christians really need to control yourselves. The Dark Ages are over. You’re not in charge anymore — and we all know what happened when you were.

  • anon@ 11.37 In your world, when you criticise someone, say your kid, do you do so by urinating on a photograph of his? Is that how it is done? Slag off all you want about Christianity but don’t pretend that scum Larry was merely poking fun.

  • Ray Garton,

    Would it be ok to go on national television and insult you, your mother, and anyone else close to you?

    You fail to understand that there is a certain amount of responsibility involved with free speech.

    Do you think someone can get away with issuing a threat to our President and not have repurcussions?

    You really need to think this through before you make a fool of yourself.

    As far as the “Dark Ages”, if it wasn’t for the Catholic Church during the “Dark Ages” we wouldn’t have a concept called a “University”, science, astronomy, books, and beer just to name a few. Plus the fact we stemmed the tide of Islam.

    So think next time you spout falsehoods.

    If all you get is your information from tv, then you really don’t know much at all.

    So be thankful you aren’t be scourged in the city center while your mother is forced to wear a burqa and everyone around you are driving around on donkey’s as a means of transportation.

  • Larry David did not urinate on a picture of Jesus. Backsplash from the toilet spattered the picture. I think most of you know this, but you seem to lack confidence in your stand and feel you must mischaracterize the thing you’re protesting, virtually lying about it. If you have to lie to make your point, there’s something wrong with your point.

    Tito wrote: “Would it be ok to go on national television and insult you, your mother, and anyone else close to you?”

    Yes, it would be okay. I wouldn’t like it, of course, and I no doubt would respond. But life is full of things I don’t like. It’s full of things ALL of us don’t like. We need to be mature and adult enough to recognize that and live with it. I refer you to my earlier remark about thick skin.

    Tito wrote: “You fail to understand that there is a certain amount of responsibility involved with free speech.”

    I agree. However, those responsibilities do not include avoiding offending Christians or any other religion. No law exists in America prohibiting this.

    Tito wrote: “Do you think someone can get away with issuing a threat to our President and not have repurcussions?”

    It is against the law to threaten the president. It is not against the law to joke about Jesus or god or the Easter Bunny or Batman, or any other mythical figures. If you can’t see the difference, then the problem lies not in Larry David’s comedy but in your delusional view of the world.

    Tito wrote: “You really need to think this through before you make a fool of yourself.”

    I’m not the one who compared joking about Jesus to committing a federal offense. I honestly think you’re confused about who’s the fool.

    Tito wrote: “As far as the “Dark Ages”, if it wasn’t for the Catholic Church during the “Dark Ages” we wouldn’t have a concept called a “University”, science, astronomy, books, and beer just to name a few.”

    I’m sure the countless numbers of people your church tortured and slaughtered because they didn’t like them were very grateful for all those things. I would also like to point out that Hitler and Stalin and other bloodthirsty dictators like them made the trains run on time. That neither changes nor excuses the many people they killed.

    Tito wrote: “Plus the fact we stemmed the tide of Islam.”

    Defeating your competition in the dubious religion business is hardly a public service.

    Tito wrote: “So think next time you spout falsehoods.”

    You haven’t pointed out a single falsehood I’ve written here. Perhaps you need to think this through a little more, Titus.

    Tito wrote: “If all you get is your information from tv, then you really don’t know much at all.”

    My information comes from recorded history. Where on earth do you get YOUR information?

    Tito wrote: “So be thankful you aren’t be scourged in the city center while your mother is forced to wear a burqa and everyone around you are driving around on donkey’s as a means of transportation.”

    So the best way you know to defend your religion is to slam another. There’s no difference between the two as far as I can see. The Muslim faith is doing nothing different now than the Catholic faith did in the past. And I’m sure the Catholic faith would still be doing it if it were still in charge — something I’m sure it’s working on remedying as soon as possible.

  • Ray Garton,

    If you read my post I specifically avoided going into detail about what particularly happened. How it happened is irrelevant, but the fact that it did happen is.

    I agree there is free speech, I’m all for it, but again, did I say lets enact a law? No. I said lets pray for Mr. Larry David.

    To reiterate again and again, I am not asking for a federal law. I am enacting MY free speech to ask Mr. Larry David to desist from insulting God as he did.

    So as soon as you get that notion out of your head since you’ve been brainwashed that all us Krischians want is a theocracy (I’m reading between your constant accusations that we want a federal law for a federal offense.)

    I’ve pointed out all of the falsehoods you have spoken. You can be obtuse as much as you want, even a layperson could understand that your argument is about creating a federal law in which I never mentioned it.

    Besides, I was talking more about the Dark Ages.

    Recorded history? Like National Geographic?

    Again, open a book and read up on the alleged “Dark Ages”. You have failed to point out anything I said is untrue.

    As far as Islam, I was making a point about the “Dark Ages”.

    But if you insist on diverting attention from the argument, then do so at your own risk.

    I have a right to object to Mr. Larry David’s insults.

    You somehow believe I want to enact a federal law against this which I never mentioned. I asked that we pray for him and then you go into ad hominem’s about the Catholic faith. Which I retorted and you failed to answer.

    Come on Ray, it aint that hard is it?

    Or are you not used to debating with someone who has cold hard facts? Too much unchallenged thinking in college caught your tongue? (or your analytical abilities for that matter)

  • Mr. Ray Garton,

    I’m done with my early morning prayers and so I have to head back to sleep.

    I actually enjoyed engaging in debate with you and I hope you do understand where I (and many more Catholics are) am coming from.

    We can resume later today if you wish.

    Know that I love you as a brother in Christ.

    In Jesus, Mary, & Joseph,

    Tito

  • I love the “enlightened” secularist responses.

    “He wasn’t REALLY disrespecting your religion, so lighten up! Ok, maybe he was, but he did the same to another religion before that, so that makes it ok. And, by the way, your religion is bulls#$&, your so-called “god” is a fake, and you caused more evil in the world than anything else, ever and you dark age bigots deserve what you get!”

    But THEY’RE the “brights”. Got it. I can almost see the maniacal frothing as they type. Or copy and paste. Whatever.

  • “Just because someone does not share your belief and chooses to find humor in your religion does not mean that person is “anti” anything — it just means that person does not believe as you do.”

    Ray, are you serious. When Catholics stand up for their beliefs about the sanctity of life and traditional marriage (usually very respectfully btw), they are labeled ANTI-choice, ANTI-gay, homophobic misogynists. Most people want it labeled “hate speech” to even SUGGEST that the traditional definition of marriage should remain. Yet somehow it’s not ANTI-Christian to mock and desecrate an image of the Christian Lord? It is a difference of beliefs, but it’s expressed in a way that is certainly anti-Christian.

    No one is suggesting it be against the law to do this or that Larry David should be put in jail. But free speech is a two way street. People don’t have the right to suppress speech because it’s offensive, but the speaker doesn’t have the right to stop those who are offended from speaking out in opposition.

  • Never seen this show–no cable. Sounds like a pretty contrived device; good satire needs a touch of plausibility to it. Who hangs a big picture of Jesus in their bathroom? Who backsplashes to the extent that would be required for this plot? Who over the age of six can’t practice proper toilet hygiene? What moderately sane Catholic would assume random droplets on a picture to be of miraculous origin absent other factors? So was the point of the exercise to “satirize” a common human foible, or to work out a scenario that would allow the players to include an act that ranges, depending on the viewer’s level of piety, from tasteless to really, really offensive?

    “Satires” of this type are objectionable because they don’t really satirize (i.e. ridicule the vices and follies of human nature.) They manufacture a situation that allows them to get away with contempt toward something–reverence or spirituality–normally recognized as good. Most of us outgrow this level of humor by our mid-teens, if not earlier.

  • “It takes religion to make good people do evil things.”

    Comments like this give good reason to doubt the speaker has read so much as a single book detailing one of the many atrocities of the 20th Century.

    http://tinyurl.com/yjvqnt3

  • This is Zionist humor. Now we (people of the earth) are not to make pictures graven images of God, heaven or hell. Yet it is the very idea and action that he was doing says where Larry is coming from. I bet if someone wiped their ass with an israeli flag, that person whould be deemed “anti-semite” (air quote), which is really utter disgust for Zionist and their agenda.

  • “Comments like this give good reason to doubt the speaker has read so much as a single book detailing one of the many atrocities of the 20th Century.”

    I you want to bring up Hitler then you are right, you only need to read so much as a single book.

    To quote Mein Kampf…

    “I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.” (p.46)

    “This human world of ours would be inconceivable without the practical existence of a religious belief.” (p.152)

    “What we have to fight for…is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.” (p.125)

    + many others.

    Religion has formed the dividing lines of almost EVERY conflict or atrocity in human history…

    Israel / Palestine
    Kosovo
    Bosnia
    The War on Terror – Iraq, Afghanistan, 9/11
    Northern Ireland
    The Crusades
    The Spanish conquests of the Americas
    The Thirty Years War
    …and the list goes on

    And what motivates ‘good’ people to commit such acts…RELIGION.

    But I digress, Larry David didn’t deliberately pee on Jesus!

  • Considering the futility of trying to have a rational conversation with those who worship invisible deities, commenting on this blog about the “disrespect” of nonbelievers is like tilting at windmills. I readily admit that no words of mine can compete with the allure of eternal life. Any words of mine that might be volatile would at least give you the warm feeling of assurance that I would spend eternity in Hades ( it is so human to feel that being rewarded with the miracle of escaping death is not enough; that you also need to have the added comfort of eternal torture of those who disagree with you!)

    Nevertheless, I think it is important from my perspective to get god-a-holics to understand that they do not have legal standing to censure the rest of us who cheer at open disrespect of institutionalized insanity. Yah and verily, I say unto you… that THIS is human progress.

  • Shmohawk:

    Your litany demonstrates nothing more than your remarkable stupidity and ever deplorable sense of logic.

    Do you know what’s even more annoying than religious people?

    Stupid people like you who are so incapable of genuine dialogue that formulating even the semblance of a simple argument appears beyond the very measure of your capability.

    Ray Garton:

    Your comments are so amusing that it almost likens to parody.

    Your endless rant would make it seem that the United States was specifically founded for you and your fellow athiests.

    Yet, given the religious leanings of the Founding Fathers themselves and the rather bothersome language they typically employed concerning that “One Nation Under God”; these did not blindly subscribe to some blatantly erroneous notion of “freedom from religion”, as you would make it appear, but rather “freedom of religion”, wherein religion of the individual is to be respected — not denigrated — to such extent that certain measures were taken concerning particular circumstances wherein individuals so discriminated are afforded proper protection by even the law itself.

    So, next time you would like to deliver another one of your “the United States is the Promised Land of Atheists”, do give some serious attention and due examination of the language of the Founding Fathers as set out in the consequential documents from which the lay of this land was established.

    Your arrogance is not only appalling; it is repulsively revisionist.

    Of course, perhaps that “dubious religion business” of the Founding Fathers themselves from which this country was originally based may very well be the cause for why you would rather invent such delusional fiction from which to base your “U.nited S.tates of A.thiests.”!

    Yet, it can surely be dismissed as nothing more than simply “arrogance”, a “pious sense of entitlement” and the need to impose your athiest beliefs upon the masses; nothing more.

  • Schmohawk,

    There are these two atheists named Stalin and Mao who between the two of them killed more of their own people than just about all other previous wars and massacres combined. All in persuit of an ideology which, while having a certain aura of religiosity in the way that people devoted themselves to it, most explicitly rejected the existence of God or the eternal and instead pursued a transformative ideal within a strictly materialistic world view.

    I suppose you could theorize that everyone involved in the mass slaughters of their and a variety of lesser communist regimes were all the result of “bad people doing bad things” rather than “good people doing bad things” but that’s a rather silly semantic game as there’s no discernable difference between “good people” and “bad people” other than there actions. Indeed, I would argue that there is no such thing as “good people” or “bad people”. There are simply people. Some do mostly bad things, some do mostly good things, most do a pretty even number of both.

    Karen,

    You’re certain welcome to think that way, but theorizing that one of the major motives for theists is joy at the idea that some other people might be damned doesn’t correllate very well with most real world interractions with theists.

    As for whether “institutionalized insanity” should be mocked (leaving aside the question of whether that is what religion is) — I suppose it depends how much value one puts on the thoughts and experiences of other people. I consider ancient paganism to be utterly false, and indeed consider Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism to be false as well — but I would consider it the height of rudeness to go around actively mocking their rites and sacred symbols — not because I think they’re true, but because I don’t consider it particularly admirable to actively insult and trample on the beliefs which millions of people gain meaning and hope from.

    I’m perfectly happy to explain to my Buddhist and Hindu friends why I consider Catholicism to be true, or why I don’t find Hindu or Buddhist worldviews persuasive, but I certainly would actively abuse their sacred places or symbols — if only out of respect for them as people, and a desire not to cause human suffering for my own amusement.

  • I love it when dime store atheists attempt to claim Hitler was a theist, thus proving that it is not only in regard to God that they are completely clueless. From the Tabletalk of Hitler:

    ‘The war will be over one day. I shall then consider that my life’s final task will be to solve the religious problem. Only then Will the life of the German native be guaranteed once and for all.”

    “The evil that’s gnawing our vitals is our priests, of both creeds. I can’t at present give them the answer they’ve been asking for, but it will cost them nothing to wait. It’s all written down in my big book. The time will come when I’ll settle my account with them, and I’ll go straight to the point.”

    “I don’t know which should be considered the more dangerous: the minister of religion who play-acts at patriotism, or the man who openly opposes the State. The fact remains that it’s their maneuvers that have led me to my decision. They’ve only got to keep at it, they’ll hear from me, all right. I shan’t let myself be hampered by juridical scruples. Only necessity has legal force. In less than ten years from now, things will have quite another look, I can promise them.”

    “We shan’t be able to go on evading the religious problem much longer. If anyone thinks it’s really essential to build the life of human society on a foundation of lies, well, in my estimation, such a society is not worth preserving. If’ on the other hand, one believes that truth is the indispensable foundation, then conscience bids one intervene in the name of truth, and exterminate the lie.”

    “Once the war is over we will put a swift end to the Concordat. It will give me the greatest personal pleasure to point out to the Church all those occasions on which it has broken the terms of it. One need only recall the close cooperation between the Church and the murderers of Heydrich. Catholic priests not only allowed them to hide in a church on the outskirts of Prague, but even allowed them to entrench themselves in the sanctuary of the altar.”

    “The fact that I remain silent in public over Church affairs is not in the least misunderstood by the sly foxes of the Catholic Church, and I am quite sure that a man like the Bishop von Galen knows full well that after the war I shall extract retribution to the last farthing. And, if he does not succeed in getting himself transferred in the meanwhile to the Collegium Germanium in Rome, he may rest assured that in the balancing of our accounts, no “T” will remain uncrossed, no “I” undotted!”

    “Religion has formed the dividing lines of almost EVERY conflict or atrocity in human history…”

    You really did sleep through all your history classes didn’t you? Here is a sample of conflicts that had nothing to do with religion, unless one assumes that atheism is a religion:

    World War I

    World War II

    Korean War

    Vietnam

    The American Civil War

    The War of 1812

    The Napoleonic cycle of wars

    The American Revolution

    The list could go on to encompass most of the wars fallen man has engaged in. If you are going to troll a Catholic website you’ll have to do much better than this.

  • Karen Leonard:

    “Considering the futility of trying to have a rational conversation with those who worship invisible deities…”

    Well, I don’t know — the Founding Fathers themselves ‘worship[ped] invisible dieties’ and, yet, rational conversation, let alone, the founding of this very nation, wasn’t beyond the realm of reason.

    Of course, the fact that the whole of Western Civilization itself being borne from the likes of a once united Christendom should also give one pause.

    Indeed, most of the scientists that gave birth to the scientific human progress were, in fact, largely Christian.

    Yet, that would require an intimate knowledge of history itself as well as reason; both of which, unfortunately, you do not possess in any discernible measure.

    But, please, don’t let the facts hinder you from formulating such creative nonsense.

    “god-a-holics” is surely the work of a creative genius!

  • It would be easy to show respect for the beliefs of Christians if they adhered to those beliefs themselves. Reading over the comments from Christians here on this forum, I can only imagine how proud you must all make Jesus.

  • “…the rest of us who cheer at open disrespect…”

    Very telling. And this is supposed to convince me that atheism and not religion is the font of compassion why, exactly?

  • “Reading over the comments from Christians here on this forum, I can only imagine how proud you must all make Jesus.”

    Have you ever read the Bible? Jesus did not suffer proud fools gladly.

    “Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2″The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
    5″Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.’

    8″But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.[b] 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

    13″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[c]

    15″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

    16″Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’ 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

    23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

    25″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

    27″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

    29″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

    33″You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

    37″O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”

  • Ray Garton:

    Originally, you engaged in a long tirade concerning how awfully delusional Christians are because of their very beliefs.

    Now, your most recent comment happens to fall back on the very contents of — wait for it — their very beliefs; the very same you expressed outright animosity towards?

    In other words, insulting such beliefs are fun and even necessary; yet, when it comes down right to it, when the chips do happen to fall and you have nothing more to depend upon (save your own stupidity), you have no problems whatever with attempting to find safe harbor under the merits of such beliefs when it ultimately suits you.

    Bravo!

    You prove both the sheer hypocrisy and immense futility of the atheist project all in one breath!

  • Yes, I’ve read the bible and know it quite well. I’ve also read the Harry Potter books, but that doesn’t mean I believe in wizards.

  • No, e., my reference to your beliefs was an attempt to hold you to them. I might sing “Santa Claus is Coming to Town” at Christmas time, but that doesn’t mean I believe in Santa Claus. According to your magic book, Jesus Christ taught humility, but I see none of that in Christians today. He taught his followers to love one another, and even their enemies, but I CERTAINLY see none of THAT in Christians today. He told his followers not to pray publicly, to go to their closets to pray so they don’t make arrogant spectacles of themselves, and yet Christians in America demand that their particular brand of prayer be engaged in at government functions and are angry that prayer is not allowed in public schools. *I* don’t believe in Jesus Christ — outside of the bible, there is no record that he ever existed, and the bible certainly isn’t a historical record, it’s a book of myths, so I see no reason to believe in Jesus Christ. Christians, however, DO believe in him and claim to be followers of his teachings — and yet their behavior constantly proves this not to be the case. So those of us outside of Christianity can only conclude that Jesus Christ is nothing more than a hood ornament used as a front for anger, hatred, bigotry, and a hunger for power. The fault for that lies with Christians and no one else.

  • To paraphrase Ray: “I’d believe you [Do you mean that?] if you lived up to your standards.”

    And I’ll be an atheist when they start living up to their standards — oh, wait! They don’t have any! That would be imposing moral absolutes on people, and we can’t have that.

  • I don’t know if “Voldemort” appears in the Declaration of Independence, which document incidentally provides unequivocal affirmation of both the beliefs of the American people as well as their faith in — “God”!

  • The similarities between Ray Garton’s exegesis and that of your run of the mill evangelical fundamentalist are striking, but sadly, not all that surprising. The resulting strawman massacre is, likewise, unsurprising.

  • Ray Garton:

    In the beginning, you detested our beliefs and rather have us not hold them — only to come around the second time to insist that we hold them?

    Amazing.

  • The Declaration of Independence is just that — a declaration of America’s independence from Britain. While it remains a historical document of great significance, it is a document of its time and isn’t even accurate any longer — it identifies the United States as being made up of 13 states. It is not the law of the land, nor is it a reflection of the character of this nation. The document that does that (and which is still valid today) is the United States Constitution, which remains in effect to this day and does not mention god or religion once. Out of slavering desperation, Christians often point to the date on the document, which uses the phrase “the year of our lord,” but that was simply the standard way of writing the date at that time, and was used by believers and non-believers alike. It is no more a statement of belief than using the names of the days of the week, which are based on pagan gods, is a statement of belief in those gods. If the forefathers wanted this to be a “Christian nation,” they would have explicitly pointed this out in the Constitution. Instead, that document reflects the character of this nation — no mention is made of god or religion as it outlines this secular government. No amount of groping or desperately reaching for straws will change that.

    Now, if you don’t mind, I have work to do, so I’m going to leave you to your snide Christ-like insults of those who don’t share your beliefs. Enjoy the rest of the year.

  • “No, e., my reference to your beliefs was an attempt to hold you to them.”

    “It would be easy to show respect for the beliefs of Christians if they adhered to those beliefs themselves.”

    So, which is it?

    Would you rather we repudiate our beliefs or hold them?

    “[T]he bible certainly isn’t a historical record, it’s a book of myths, so I see no reason to believe
    in Jesus Christ.”

    Okay — let me get this straight, based on your previous statement, it would appear as though your argument here is:

    ‘It would be easy to show respect for the beliefs of Christians if only they adhered to those beliefs themselves, which simply come from a book of myths?’

    In other words, your own intellectual powers demonstrated herein (not to mention, rhetorical prowess and logical thought) leaves much to be desired.

  • e.,

    Please refrain from abusive language.

    http://the-american-catholic.com/comments-policy/

    I appreciate your passion and I share your resolve and information you provide in defense of God.

  • I don’t see how exposing flaws in an opponent’s arguments counts as ‘abusive language’; but there you have it.

    Plus, it would behoove you to first examine the language you yourself employed in your own exchange with Mr. Garton prior to criticizing any of the others.

  • So many commentators, so little time and space….
    Just picking out a few tidbits; the founding fathers were not Christians, they despaired over the hodgepodge of conflicting dogma of the citizens, many-if not most- who had fled here from religious persecution of waring religious factions throughout Europe. As Jefferson so succinctly put it, “Is there anything that people won’t believe? ” The best they could do was to separate religion from government. That has not worked very well, as we have seen the injection of god into the pledge of allegiance in the fifties – due to the fear of communism, the swearing on the bible to take an official oath in court or in politics.

    Many of the wars mentioned by a previous commenter were not officially “holy wars” – but they were certainly backed by the churches. My own belief is that all wars are seeking to take over some resource that another group possesses, and religion is simply the handiest tool to use to convince people that by killing others, and dying themselves, this murder will give them eternal life.

    As to “cheering disrespect” – yes, I do think that showing open resentment for the power and influence worshipers have in our country is important. Although nonbelievers are a large segment of citizens, and have the lowest statistics of criminality, we are at the bottom of the list of for “trustworthy” in public office.

    As to scientists through history being Christians, considering the likelihood of being able to fund or publish anything in that realm without the blessing of church was nil – and even worse fates awaited you if you denied a belief, I would bet that most scientists professed beliefs they did not themselves believe. Look at poor Galileo, Issac Newton.

    So to wrap it up, I think that being able to openly protest and poke fun of what was “the holiest of holy’s” shows that humans are progressing towards a glimmer of enlightenment.

    I

  • According to your magic book, Jesus Christ taught humility, but I see none of that in Christians today. He taught his followers to love one another, and even their enemies, but I CERTAINLY see none of THAT in Christians today.

    It seems to me like you’re arguing through exaggeration here. It surely can’t be the case that you’ve seen no humility in Christians today — that you’ve never seen a Christian act in a humble fashion because he believes that is the demand of his faith. Nor can it be the case that you’ve never seen Christians love others, including their enemies. What you mean is simply that you don’t always see this, and thus that Christians are obviously not living up to their beliefs all of the time — indeed are often not living up to their beliefs as fully as they could be.

    Now, unless your theory is that Christians are not supposed to be human beings, and thus are not supposed to have the tendency to allow baser instincts to overcome their ideas of what they ought to be doing, this is hardly surprising. I can’t think of any group whose members live up to their stated ideals all of the time.

    And so the above amounts to nothing other than to inform us that generally speaking you don’t like Christians and so you tend to recall their negative actions more than their positive ones. We learn about as much about Christians from your comment as we might learn about Mexicans from someone who said, “Mexicans say they come to this country to work, but so far as I can tell they’re always just sitting around being lazy.” And indeed, the effect of your comment on listeners who are or know Christians will be roughly as positive as the example comment would be on people who aren’t racists.

    *I* don’t believe in Jesus Christ — outside of the bible, there is no record that he ever existed, and the bible certainly isn’t a historical record, it’s a book of myths, so I see no reason to believe in Jesus Christ.

    This isn’t true on either point. At a minimum, there are a large number of extra-biblical ancient sources that mention Jesus because there were a number of gospels, epistles, and other accounts which had some degree of following but were rejected by the Church when it was assembling the official canon of the New Testament. While the Church considered these documents not to be inspired scripture, they certainly do present a number of texts which attest that the authors believed the Christ did in fact live in first century Palestine roughly was was described in the canonical Gospels.

    Similarly, several non-Christian ancient sources make reference to Jesus, if only to say something along the lines of, “And the Christians believe that Jesus, a preacher who lived in the time of Herod Antipas, rose from the dead after three days.”

    Further, you seem to suffer under the illusion that there is some bright and clear distinction between “historical records” and other forms of writing in the ancient world. This isn’t really the case. Certainly, you’ll find some people self-consciously writing “history” such as Livy, Tacitus, Suetonius, etc. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that all of the things they relate happen as described. And much modern historical work consists of taking a variety of sources (including sources such as personal letters which were not at all written with the intent of being historical documents) and using them as testimony in order to get an idea of events or conditions at a given time. In light of that, it’s certainly not in appropriate to look at all of the accounts and letters which mention Christ as someone who lived in historical Palestine and take it from that that he did in fact live there. Indeed, the idea of claiming that the very existence of Jesus is a myth is a comparatively modern one. Non-Christian sources in the past tended to accept Christ existed, but deny that he was God and insist that his followers stole and hid his body in order to claim he was risen from the dead.

    And that’s not even getting into the misconceptions you seem to have about what a “myth” is.

    Doubtless you have your own strongly held reasons for considering Christianity false, but if you’re going to wade into an area in which people know a great deal more than you and make a bunch of statements which are clearly false, you’re hardly going to be taken as an authority.

  • Karen L.,

    So the founding fathers were not Christian?

    Hey, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn!

  • @Tito, thanks for responding to me and Reg. Kudos for the inclusive debate. I’m off my high horse now, so while I urge you to reconsider your stance on LD (CYE is a brilliant show, even if it .. missed .. with that joke), I’m not going to engage in polemics. Cheers.

  • Yes, the Declaration of Independence mentions god. But it’s not a legal document and does not represent the law of the nation. That came later, in the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence simply declared America’s separation from British rule. It is NOT the law of the land, and since we have been separate from Britain for over two hundred years, it’s not exactly a document of our time. While it mentions god, it also states, “The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America.” America has more than thirteen states now, so it’s not even accurate anymore. While it is a historical document of enormous significance, it is not a legal document — that came LATER. It says absolutely NOTHING about our rights being secured by Christianity and does not mention Christianity at all. It refers to “the opinions of MANKIND” and states that “governments are instituted among MEN.” It refers to “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,” which is a reflection of DEISM or even PANTHEISM, which most definitely are NOT Christian. Mention pantheism to a Christian and if you’re lucky enough to be speaking to a Christian who even knows what the word means, get ready for a lecture about its evils. Later, the Constitution — which DOES NOT mention god (a point Christians would like you to ignore) — set up the law of the land. America’s founding fathers clearly intended this to be a nation DIVORCED from religion. Over the years, Christians have tried to have their way with the forefathers’ intentions, twisting and raping their words. It continues to this day.
    When the United States began to involve itself in foreign affairs, it became necessary to make sure that other countries — particularly those that were, unlike America, RULED by religion — understood that this was NOT a religious nation but a SECULAR government. To this end, very explicit reference was made to this in the Treaty of Tripoli in the 1790s to make it CLEAR that the United States was NOT a Christian nation. From the Treaty of Tripoli:
    “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
    A statement on the document by President John Adams includes the following:
    “And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed, and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof.”
    In May of 1797, the treaty was read aloud in full on the Senate floor, and on June 7, ratification of the treaty was unanimously approved, with 23 of the 37 sitting senators present.
    The 7th Amendment of the Constitution refers to “the common law,” which Christians often claim is derived from the foundation of Christianity. Using various quotes, including some from Supreme Court Justices, they claim that Christianity was part of the laws of England. This is still more self-serving nonsense.
    In a February 10, 1814 letter to Thomas Cooper, Thomas Jefferson discussed the history of common law as follows:
    “For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law. … This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first Christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it.”
    ” … if any one chooses to build a doctrine on any law of that period, supposed to have been lost, it is incumbent on him to prove it to have existed, and what were its contents. These were so far alterations of the common law, and became themselves a part of it. But none of these adopt Christianity as a part of the common law. If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are all able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
    In the same letter, Jefferson explains how the confusion over Christianity came about. It was a misinterpretation of a Latin term by Prisot, “ancien scripture.” It means “ancient scripture” but was misinterpreted to mean “holy scripture.” As a result, many WRONGLY believed that the common law came from the bible. It did not. Jefferson writes:
    “And Blackstone repeats, in the words of Sir Matthew Hale, that ‘Christianity is part of the laws of England,’ citing Ventris and Strange ubi surpa. 4. Blackst. 59. Lord Mansfield qualifies it a little by saying that ‘The essential principles of revealed religion are part of the common law.’ In the case of the Chamberlain of London v. Evans, 1767. But he cites no authority, and leaves us at our peril to find out what, in the opinion of the judge, and according to the measure of his foot or his faith, are those essential principles of revealed religion obligatory on us as a part of the common law. Thus we find this string of authorities, when examined to the beginning, all hanging on the same hook, a perverted expression of Priscot’s, or on one another, or nobody.”
    Christians claim that Jefferson was a Christian, but his own words do not reflect this. Much of this comes from the fact that when Christians see the word “god,” they instantly think it refers to THEIR god. In fact, the word “god” has been used with several meanings over time, like “nature,” or a general reference to the supernatural. Jefferson was quite skeptical and fond of science. He rejected Christianity’s mysticism and superstion to such an extent that he compiled what has come to be called The Jefferson Bible. He edited the gospels, removing all of Christ’s miracles and all reference to the supernatural, leaving only what he saw as Christ’s moral philosophy. Here are some quotes from Thomas Jefferson on religion and Christianity:
    “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
    “Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting ‘Jesus Christ,’ so that it would read ‘A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;’ the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.”
    -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
    “Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
    “I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshiped by many who think themselves Christians.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 — This was in response to a letter Price had written to Jefferson on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion, in which Price had written, “Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?”
    “They (the clergy) believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion.”
    — Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800
    “The whole history of these books (the Gospels) is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814
    “If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? … Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
    “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814
    “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816
    “You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, June 25, 1819
    “My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816
    “Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him (Jesus) by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820
    “Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.”
    — Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822.
    “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.”
    — Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
    There are more, but I think I’ve made my point. When Christians say Jefferson was a Christian, they are either ignorant or lying. And Jefferson is only ONE of the forefathers. There is overwhelming evidence that America’s founders were not unanimously Christian, and Christianity had absolutely nothing to do with the founding of this nation.
    The Christians fighting for prayer in government and public schools — and doing so AGAINST the teachings of Jesus Christ — really aren’t interested in prayer. That is only one step in a greater effort. They want nothing less than to overthrow this country, to make it a Christian nation with Christian rule. To do this, they must undercut and eventually abandon the Constitution. To stop this, it is vital that we all know as much as we can of the TRUTH about this country’s history, its founders, and their intentions. Christians have been fooled by these falsehoods because of their own ignorance and willingness to believe whatever their religious leaders tell them. Don’t let them fool YOU because of yours. Educate yourself. And when you hear these lies about the United States, loudly denounce them. If you don’t and if the Christians have their way, this will no longer be the United States of America that our founding fathers created.

  • Karen L.

    For your information, it was not the scientific theories of Galileo that were found heretical (in fact, many Jesuit scientists at the time held to similar notions and even subscribed to virtually the same ideas which were, in fact, published with expressed approval of the Pope himself); rather, it was Galileo’s stubborn insistance that the foundation of Catholic theology itself be compromised simply at the behest of his own personal theological leanings.

    What goes unmentioned is that beginning in the Middle Ages, the Church was supporting research and even building observatories in the towers of well-sited churches. These facilities were made available to astronomers like Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo. Nor did the controversy over Galileo stifle scientific inquiry. “The fact is, Catholic scientists were essentially permitted to carry on their research unhindered as long as they treated the motion of the earth as a hypothesis,” as indeed it was at the time.

    Heck, it was the Catholic Church herself which founded the Linceorum Academia (i.e., the Academy of the Sciences) in 1603. Indeed, if anything, the conflict between evolutionary science and creationism in the United States comes from the Protestant tradition, not the Catholic one.

    It is a relatively simple matter to show that many great scientists, like Louis Pasteur, have been Catholic. Much more revealing, however, is the surprising number of Catholic churchmen, priests in particular, whose scientific work has been so extensive and significant. At the forefront were the Jesuits, who led the way in many fields and “so dominated the field of seismology that it became known as ‘the Jesuit science.’” One of the Jesuit-scientists highlighted by the author is Father Roger Boscovich (1711-1787) who won praise throughout Europe for his advances in astronomy, natural science and the beginnings of atomic theory.

    “The Big Bang” theory itself pertaining to the notion that the universe originated in an extremely dense and hot space and expanded was, in fact, developed by a Belgian priest?

    Here are other examples of scientists who were themselves members of the Catholic clergy:
    1. Mendel, a monk, who first established the laws of heredity.
    2. Copernicus, a priest, who expounded upon the Copernican system.
    3. Steensen, a Bishop, who became the father of geology.
    4. Regiomontanus, a Bishop and Papal astronomer who became the father of modern astronomy.
    5. Theodoric, a Bishop, who discovered anesthesia in the 13th century.
    6. Kircher, a priest, who made the first definite statement of the germ theory of disease.
    7. Cassiodorus, a priest, who invented the watch.
    8. Picard, a priest, who became the first to measure accurately a degree of the meridian.

    Here is a list of just some Catholic scientists:

    Algue, a priest, invented the barocyclonometer, to detect approach of cyclones.

    Ampere, the founder of the science of electrodynamics and investigator of the laws of electromagnetism.

    Becquerel, Antoine Cesar, the founder of electrochemistry.

    Becquerel, Antoine Henri, the discoverer of radioactivity.

    Binet, mathematician and astronomer, who set forth the principle, “Binet’s Theorem.”

    Braille, who invented the Braille system for the blind.

    Buffon, who wrote the first work on natural history.

    Carrell, the Nobel prize winner in medicine and physiology, is renowned for his work in surgical technique.

    Caesalpinus, a Papal physician — the first to construct a system of botany.

    Cassiodorus, a priest, who invented the watch.

    Columbo discovered the pulmonary circulation of the blood.

    Copernicus, a priest, who expounded the Copernican system.

    Coulomb established the fundamental laws of static electricity.

    De Chauliac, a Papal physician — the father of modern surgery and hospitals.

    De Vico, a priest, discovered six comets.

    Descartes, who founded analytical geometry.

    Dumas, who invented a method of ascertaining vapor densities.

    Endlicher, botanist and historian, who established a new system of classifying plants.

    Eustachius, for whom the Eustachian tube was named, who became one of the founders of modern anatomy.

    Fabricius, who discovered the valvular system of the veins.

    Fallopius, who was the eminent physiologist from/for whom the Fallopian tube was named.

    Fizeau, the first to determine experimentally the velocity of light.

    Foucault, who invented the first practical electric arc lamp; he refuted the corpuscular theory of light; he invented the gyroscope.

    Fraunhofer, the initiator of spectrum analysis; he established laws of diffraction.

    Fresnel, who contributed more to the science of optics than any other man.

    Galilei, a great astronomer, is the father of experimental science.

    Galvani, one of the pioneers of electricity, was also an anatomist and physiologist.

    Gioja, father of scientific navigation, invented the mariner’s compass.

    Gramme, who invented the Gramme dynamo.

    Guttenberg, who invented printing.

    Herzog, who discovered a cure for infantile paralysis.

    Holland, who invented the first practical sub marine.

    Kircher, a priest, who made the first definite statement of the germ theory of disease.

    Laennec, who invented the stethoscope.

    Lancist, a Papal physician — the father of clinical medicine.

    Latreille, the pioneer in entomology.

    Lavoisier, the Father of Modern Chemistry.

    Leverrier, the discoverer of the planet Neptune.

    Lully, who is said to have been the first to employ chemical symbols.

    Malpighi, a Papal physician, himself a botanist, became the father of comparative physiology.

    Marconi’s place in radio remains unsurpassed.

    Mariotte, who discovered Mariotte’s law of gases.

    Mendel, a monk, the first to establish the laws of heredity.

    Morgagni, founder of modern pathology; made important studies in aneurisms.

    Muller was the greatest biologist of the 19th century, founder of modern physiology.

    Pashcal demonstrated practically that a column of air has weight.

    Pasteur, called the “Father of Bacteriology,” and inventor of bio-therapeutics, was the leading scientist of the 19th century.

    Picard, a priest, who became the first to measure accurately a degree of the meridian.

    Regiomontanus, a Bishop and Papal astronomer, who became the father of modern astronomy.

    Scheiner, a priest, who invented the pantograph and made a telescope that permitted the first systematic investigation of sun spots.

    Secchi, who invented the meteorograph.

    Steensen, a Bishop, who became the father of geology.

    Theodoric, a Bishop, who discovered anesthesia in the 13th century.

    Torricelli, who invented the barometer.

    Vesalius, the founder of modern anatomical science.

    Volta, who invented the first complete galvanic battery; the “volt” is named after him.

    Other scientists: Agricola, Albertus Magnus, Bacon, Bartholomeus, Bayma, Beccaria, Behalm, Bernard, Biondo, Biot, Bolzano, Borrus, Boscovitch, Bosio, Bourgeois, Branly, Caldani, Cambou, Camel, Cardan, Carnoy, Cassini, Cauchy, Cavaliere, Caxton, Champollion, Chevreul, Clavius, De Rossi, Divisch, Dulong, Dwight, Eckhel, Epee, Fabre, Fabri, Faye, Ferrari, Gassendi, Gay-Lussac, Gordon, Grimaldi, Hauy, Heis, Helmont, Hengler, Heude, Hilgard, Jussieu, Kelly, Lamarck, Laplace, Linacre, Malus, Mersenne, Monge, Muller, Murphy, Murray, Nelston, Nieuwland, Nobili, Nollet, Ortelius, Ozaman, Pelouze, Piazzi, Pitra, Plumier, Pouget, Provancher, Regnault, Riccioli, Sahagun, Santorini, Schwann, Schwarz, Secchi, Semmelweis, Spallanzani, Takamine, Tieffentaller, Toscanelli, Tulasne, Valentine, Vernier, Vieta, Da Vinci, Waldseemuller, Wincklemann, Windle, and a host of others, too many to mention.

  • mohawk:

    You’re going to hurt your back moving that goalpost.

    This is what you originally said:

    “Good people will always do good things, evil people will always do evil things…it takes religion to make good people do evil things.”

    That’s such a monumentally stupid comment I can understand why you’d run away from it. It’s as dumb as saying Hitler was motivated by Islam because he once spoke favorably of its ideals.

    Since you aren’t interested in exerting yourself to read anything that might refute your intensely held precommitments, let me briefly explain Browning’s important book: he studied a reserve police battalion which assisted in the Holocaust in Poland. If memory serves, none of them was a Nazi party member. Instead, they were all comfortably middle class and middle-aged German men, unremarkably so, in fact.

    They killed 38,000 people.

    http://german-history.suite101.com/article.cfm/review_ordinary_men

    Instead of playing the tattered “Hitler was a religious fanatic!” card so beloved of atheists who want to end rational discussion rather than trying it, if you considered basic human history, common sense and experience, you’d understand the following: good men do horrifically evil things for reasons entirely unrelated to religion. As “Ordinary Men” demonstrates, they will do evil things out of a fear of losing face before their comrades. Indoctrination by the state. Peer pressure. Desire to belong/conformism. Fear. Any number of excuses that that have nothing to do with religion. Which the National Socialists weren’t all that big on, as, say, Alfred Delp, Martin Niemoller and Dietrich Bonhoeffer would have been happy to point out. Had not the first and third not been executed by the Nazis, that is.

    If you find glib comments like your initial quote to be an agreeable opiate, fine. Just don’t expect to ever be taken seriously by those you savage.

    Nevertheless, keep spewing those talking points cut from the atheist websites (e.g., I doubt you have a copy of Mein Kampf to hand–most people don’t. Even fewer have read the dreadful thing all the way through. I somehow doubt atheist crusaders on the internet are any different).

  • “To stop this, it is vital that we all know as much as we can of the TRUTH about this country’s history, its founders, and their intentions.”

    Historical knowledge is a wonderful thing and it consists of far more than cutting and pasting quotes from atheist websites. For example, Ben Franklin was perhaps the most secular of the Founding Fathers, and yet, according to James Madison he made this statement at the Constitutional Convention:

    “Mr. President

    The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other,”our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes and ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, some we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.

    In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection. ”Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a Superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that “except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments be Human Wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

    I therefore beg leave to move, that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of the City be requested to officiate in that service.”

    By the standards of our time, almost all of the Founding Fathers were deeply religious men. Did they frequently criticize what they considered to be follies of churches? Of course, as we often do on this web site. However, using out of context quotes in an attempt to convince Americans that the Founders were motivated solely by secularism is ludicrous and will only convince atheist true believers.

  • Donald R. McClarey:

    You demonstrate once again a knowledge of American history, which you seem to hold to such an admirably considerable degree.

    I hope that you might consider creating entries at TAC devoted to the same subject as that in your above comments, concerning the fervent religious devotion of our country’s Founding Fathers.

    Even the one you authored concerning John Adams, I found similarly edifying — his own anti-Catholicism notwithstanding.

  • e.,

    So when are you going to put a pic to your avatar?

  • When my avatar puts a pic on me!

    Oh, by the way, now you see the kind of controversy you yourself generated as a direct result of your having made such an entry?

    Kudos for maintaining some semblance of patience, though.

    You and your partner, Matt McDonald, have more patience than I give you guys credit for — well done!

  • Rest assured e, that eventually most of the Founding Fathers and their religious beliefs will receive coverage, usually with some sort of Catholic tie in as I did in regard to John Adams.

  • Awesome! Thanks, Donald!

    You truly are both gentleman & scholar! Looking forward to these!

  • e.,

    You mean by the constant posting of your comments?

    Get off your miniature low horse and put a pic on.

    Or you’ll forever be called a lower case vowel (LCV) by me from now until death.

  • Tito:

    I’ve been called far worse than a “lower case vowel”, so I suppose I should be grateful to you and your friend Matt by sparing me from a fate far worse in both current and previous engagements, however heated they became.

  • I can think of no words except disgust. I find it utterly disgusting.
    I just cancelled my subscription to HBO. I also emailed HBO and explained that my subscription was being cancelled due to the episode of Curb.

    I will continue to Boycott HBO and Time Warner and affiliates. Enough is enough. I think that it is the duty of every Christian to boycott such blasphemy.

    For HBO to counter that it was done in a humorous way is nonsense. I believe that HBO would never have allowed Mr. David to urinate on an atheist symbol.

    I believe in freedom of speech, so there will always be a Mr. David, and many more that are of the same view. The rest of us have the ability tune him out. I will not pay for such garbage. If we shrug our shoulders, we bear the guilt for condoning such action.

  • A Christian: Your sentiments are noble, but what do you mean by “atheist symbol”?

  • How ’bout one of those chrome coelecanths people affix to the rear of their cars, the one’s inscribed with the letters , “DARWIN”?

  • A Christian:

    What a remarkable difference it would make if many Christians behaved as you did here.

    That is, one of the very reasons why, as Tito Taco Man himself suggested in his entry, that Hollywood would not even dare make fun of Islam in a similar manner is because of the effective action (as opposed to futile over-reactions) of Muslims as a collective that would put out such swift opposition that would undoubtedly be fatal to them.

    Christians are rarely capable of doing the same. The most they do, as with the Da Vinci Code, is make loud noise; nothing more.

  • Art–Oh, yeah. Those things.

    You usually see them in ironic juxtaposition with the “Coexist” bumper sticker.

  • Pull your heads out your arses you Philestines. If you don’t like it, or more aptly, don’t understand it, then just simply don’t watch it. I don’t particularly like the things Catholics say, I find them a lot more offensive than you find a little piss on a painting, and thats why I don’t go to church. But I don’t try to stop Catholics from going to church if thats their choice. And that’s because, I’m not an ignorant, arrogant, puritanical asshole.

  • Jon,

    Please no profane language.

    Please read our comments policy: http://the-american-catholic.com/comments-policy/

    We don’t watch it. I’m sure most of us don’t, but we don’t like it when our God is insulted, so we have a right as Americans to voice our opinions.

    If you don’t like it, move to Communist China. I’m sure they welcome your opinion.

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  • Blogging while drunk Jon is never a good idea.

  • “I find them a lot more offensive than you find a little piss on a painting”

    Amazing how atheists have windows unto men’s souls when they don’t actually believe in souls.

  • “Pull your heads out your arses you Philestines. If you don’t like it, or more aptly, don’t understand it, then just simply don’t watch it. I don’t particularly like the things Catholics say, I find them a lot more offensive than you find a little piss on a painting, and thats why I don’t go to church. But I don’t try to stop Catholics from going to church if thats their choice. And that’s because, I’m not an ignorant, arrogant, puritanical asshole.”

    What’s so ironic, Jon, is that your very comments actually prove that you’re in fact such “an ignorant, arrogant, puritanical asshole”.

    That is, “[i]f you don’t like it, or more aptly, don’t understand it”, then why for heaven’s sake did you go so far as to visit a “Catholic” website in order to offend Catholics, whose Catholic religion you obviously have no understanding of?

    Why don’t you take your own advice and just skip watching/visiting Catholic websites?

  • Tito?

    Moderation? Why?

  • ?

    You’re not on moderation.

    You were on it for an hour a long time ago, but not anymore. I double checked.

  • e. the moderation system seems to have gone rogue today, as I have been pulling comments out of moderation all morning. Hopefully wordpress will cure the glitch that is causing this.

  • JEWS WHO HATE CHRISTIANS

    Jewish hate is as old as some ancient Hebrew prophets.
    Speaking of anti-Semitism, it’s Jerry Falwell and other fundy leaders who’ve gleefully predicted that in the future EVERY nation will be against Israel (an international first?) and that TWO-THIRDS of all Jews will be killed, right?
    Wrong! It’s the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who predicted all this in the 13th and 14th chapters of his book! The last prophet, Malachi, explains the reason for this future Holocaust that’ll outdo even Hitler’s by stating that “Judah hath dealt treacherously” and “the Lord will cut off the man that doeth this” and asks “Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother?”
    Haven’t evangelicals generally been the best friends of Israel and persons perceived to be Jewish? Then please explain the recent filthy, hate-filled, back-stabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin and Larry David) against Sarah Palin and other Christians, and explain why most Jewish leaders have seemingly condoned the continuing “crucifixion” of Christians and even their Leader!
    While David, Sandra, Kathy and Larry are tragically turning comedy into tragedy, they are also helping to speed up and fulfill the Final Holocaust a la Zechariah and Malachi, thus helping to make the Bible even more believable!
    (For even more stunning information, visit MSN and type in “Separation of Raunch and State,” “Michael the Narc-Angel,” “Bible Verses Obama Avoids” and “The Earliest Hate Criminals” to learn even more about Jewish connections!)

  • Roma,

    As a Catholic, we tend not to dwell on prophecy as much as our Protestant brothers and sisters.

    But it’s a stretch to say that Larry David’s misguided attacks on the Catholic faith would cause Catholics to attack Israel.

    If there is any action, Catholics tend to switch away from his show or even cancel subscriptions to HBO. But that’s about it. Oh, and complain on websites such as this.

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  • “If you don’t like it, move to Communist China. I’m sure they welcome your opinion.”

    Tito, you are an intolerable, racist disgrace to your own religion which is already so disgraceful that people find it comical to piss on your savior for cheap entertainment value. Oh, so valiant the defender of Catholics and Jesus that thou purifies the realm of the cyber-blog in the name of the Lord. Don’t you see that David does this stuff to get a rise out of you people. Your religious conservatism (what you call “faith”) binds you to a realm of predictability, and you are doomed to react with puppet like instincts to offenses that don’t directly effect you. If you truly were spiritually comfortable, why would you care what a fictitious character does on a fictional program. Instead you comfort yourself with the blanket of Catholicism and the knowledge that you “fit in”, attempting to make narrow-minded fools out of those who reasonably object to such hypocrisy as Christianity.

  • Xavier,

    Listen to your logic…

    I’m intolerable for voicing my defense of my faith, but Larry David is not intolerant because he relieves himself on God?

    You just undermined your own argument.

  • “…attempting to make narrow-minded fools out of those who reasonably object to such hypocrisy as Christianity.”

    Narrow-minded fools, so-implied, are those who are intolerant of other people’s perspectives; thus, you have demonstrated yourself not only as a prime example of such but also an apparantly unintelligent arse whose cognitive deficiencies are so severe that s/he actually refutes his/herself in the very comments s/he presents. Well done.

    “…who reasonably object…”

    Nice demonstration of petitio principii; perhaps you might first present an argument for why their objection was reasonable as opposed to your demanding we concede to your rather absurd assertion here.

  • “I’m intolerable for voicing my defense of my faith, but Larry David is not intolerant because he relieves himself on God?”

    What? When did I defend Larry David? I never said he wasn’t intolerant; the man is as rigid and prone to bigotry as you. Actually, I bet you’d make good friends given your shared personality defects. My point had less to do with David and more to do with your proclaimation “If you don’t like it, move to Communist China. I’m sure they welcome your opinion.” That statement is NOT the same as voicing defense of your faith. And listen to YOUR logic— just because David has a view in opposition to yours does NOT instantly validate your argument. There you go again being so incredibly narrow-minded…

    And to e.:

    You’re entirely correct— I do stand intolerant of those who are intolerable, thanks for your reiteration of my argument; you seemed to have managed to comprehend the main idea I conveyed.

    And here is the presentation of the argument I neglected to cover in detail (I thought it quite obvious) to which all are free to reasonably object:

    Acceptance of God/Jesus via Catholicism is essential to obtain salvation when you pass on.

    Any competent individual thinking with their own free will (this excludes you two) is reasonable in thinking the above is completely ludicrous, highly offensive to modern society, and an enormous waste of time.

    *How am I doin’ boys? Workin’ towards my second strike or what!

  • X,

    You did defend Larry David when you compared my ‘intolerant’ beliefs to Larry David relieving himself. Reread what you wrote, you made a direct reference to my defense:

    Tito, you are an intolerable, racist disgrace to your own religion which is already so disgraceful that people find it comical to piss on your savior for cheap entertainment value.

    So because I am intolerant that is why Larry David relieved himself?

    Again, you’re having problems with logic.

  • You are intolerant, yes. But your religion is intolerant whether or not you exist, whether or not people worship it, whether or not people pay it any mind. Do you see the non-exclusive relationship I presumed was already obvious? It is not simply because your religion is intolerant that David relieved himself on your savior’s likeness, but because it represents little to no value to his fictional character. Here, I’ll settle this once and for all in a way that simultaneously clears David’s actions and relieves your stress: Curb Your Enthusiasm isn’t real. It’s a scripted (often improvised) television program that is set in a world similar to our reality, but slightly off-kilter. David isn’t really playing himself, the woman portraying his wife on the program is not his real-life wife (although now ex-wife). The events, although inspired by reality, never actually occurred. Possibly in this Jewish ethnocentric (though self-deprecating) fictional land called “Hollywood,” Jesus doesn’t represent what he does in our reality. Honestly, I can’t argue any longer it’s been fun but I’ll have to throw in the towel and begin packing for communist China, comrade. Keep fighting the good fight Tito. I hope we can remain friends, nay Brothers!

  • So in the case of Tito, you hurl the absurd accusation of his being intolerant all the while demonstrating the very same kind of intolerance you purportedly detested in Tito?

    Also, you yet again wish us to concede to your assertion that it is “reasonable” for modern society to object Catholicism; yet, you’ve made no argument whatsoever as to why such a thing is “reasonable” other than to demonstrate for the nth time the very extent of not only your ineptitude in conducting (let alone, formulating) arguments but also the sheer magnitude of your own stupidity.

    Thus, any further communication with you (unless, of course, you finally decide to demonstrate some aspect of human rationality and not simply render yet again a superb immitation of the beast) would be tremendously futile.

  • Xanadu/Xavier,

    That was a good comment up until the very last sentence.

    There’s no need for that type of juvenile behavior.

    Please be charitable when engaging in dialogue.

    Your brother in Christ,

    Tito

  • I’m sorry but I hear almost every religion being made fun of these days. They weren’t targeting the Catholics. It’s a joke that makes people laugh and by making it a controversial joke, it was more popular.

Hollywood Comedienne Attacks Papa Bene

Sunday, October 11, AD 2009

Comedienne Sarah Silverman is known for her profane and vulgar humor in the Hollywood scene.  Miss Silverman, in an attempt at satire, presents a sketch on the HBO program “Real Time with Bill Maher” on  how to solve world hunger.  On the surface the sketch she offers is almost harmless, but her degrading attack on our Pope is insulting to him and all Catholics.

Sarah Silverman attacks Pope Benedict XVI

Here is a partial transcript:

Think about it, we need a hero, and who is more primed to be our hero than the Pope? He’s literally a caped crusader. What is the Vatican worth, like 500 billion dollars? This is great, sell the Vatican, take a big chunk of that money, build a gorgeous condominium for you and all your friends to live in, all the amenities, swimming pool, tennis court, waterslide, and with the money left over, feed the whole (expletive removed) world.

You preach to live humbly, and I totally agree. So, now maybe it’s time for you to move out of your house that is a city.

On an ego level alone, you will be the biggest hero in the history of ever. And by the way, any involvement in the Holocaust, bygones.(sic) […]

Why bother with something like this?

We need to be aware that we are in this world, not of it.  We need to be a witness to Christ for others.  Sometimes in our endeavors to evangelize the world we can get caught up in all its trappings and are more vulnerable to fall into sin.  One can laugh at oneself without being mean-spirited or degrading.

Miss Silverman may be funny to her fans, friends, and colleagues, but that doesn’t mean she is right or that her attempt at humor on our pope is ok.  Yes we can laugh at ourselves and even our beautiful German shepherd, but there are limits and Miss Silverman has more than exceeded these limits.

So the next time you laugh at what you think may be an inconspicuous jab at our Catholic faith, remember, does it denigrate the person it is aimed at in a mean-spirited manner?  Does it cheapen your faith in mockery?  Especially if profane language is used, it’s a good indication that the person delivering it is doing it out of hate and spite.

I will not post the video because of the vulgarity she exhibits which is her modus operandi, but you can view at your own discretion on NewsBusters here.

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7 Responses to Hollywood Comedienne Attacks Papa Bene

  • Jackie Mason on the no-talent sick yenta.

  • Meh. She’s just one more bigot who has no clue what she’s talking about, like rest of her political class. Best to just ignore it. It’s the one thing that hurts people like that.

  • Someone should tell the poor young idiot that the Pope doesn’t own the Vatican. He lives in a relatively small apartment.

    But he does travel and appear in public with the grandeur of any world leader – why shouldn’t he?

  • Silverman’s entire schtick is saying outrageous things. You see, she’s actually not even remotely funny. Not even a little. So she tries to compensate for that by just saying something and making the “Oh, did I just say that?” face. Yawn.

  • Actually, I kind of enjoy her when she is not discussing religous topics. Just like I kind of enjoy Don’s posts when he is not promoting his military, foreign policy or political view points.

    What she is saying is nothing new for Hollywood. I remember Hollywood making the same point in the 60’s or early 70’s in the movie Shoes of the Fisherman, where Anthony Quinn as a Slavic born Pope sells off the Vatican and its treasures to feed the world and to avert world war. Of course the trouble is what do you do a month later when the money is all gone?

  • Someone should tell her that Notre Dame University has a bigger annual budget than the Vatican.

  • Like some liberals, ie, the White House, facts often get in the way of selling your point of view.

Roman Polanski, Hollywood, and Moral Values

Thursday, October 1, AD 2009

[Updates at the bottom of this article as of 1:47pm CDT AD 10-1-2009]

Roman Polanski

[I’ve done my best to tone down the explicit talk related to Roman Polanski, consider this a PG article instead of the usual G]

Famed Hollywood movie director Roman Polanski, who has been hiding in France since 1978, was arrested five days ago by the Swiss Justice Ministry while trying to enter Switzerland at Zurich Airport for an outstanding 1978 US arrest warrant. Polanski was going to attend the Zurich Film Festival to receive a Lifetime Achievement Award.  He is now waiting extradition, which he is appealing, to the US for his crime of engaging in unlawful intimate relations* of a 13 year old girl.

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9 Responses to Roman Polanski, Hollywood, and Moral Values

6 Responses to Hollywood Knows Best

Res et Explicatio for AD 8-7-2009

Friday, August 7, AD 2009

Salvete AC readers!

Buckle Up! Because here are today’s Top Picks in the Catholic world:

1. Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York commended President Obama and the Democratic Party efforts inArchbishopDolan reforming Health Care.  He said this during the Knights of Columbus Convention in Phoenix, Arizona.  But his Grace gave this caveat that if reform…

“…leads to the destruction of life, then we say it’s no longer health care at all – it’s unhealthy care and we can’t be part of that.”

To accentuate this sentiment and as a warning to well meaning Catholics, Cardinal Levada explained that those that want to reform health care at any cost:

“[W]e do not build heaven on earth, we simply prepare the site to welcome the new Jerusalem which comes from God.”

2. Catholic convert Joe Eszterhas of Hollywood screenwriting fame, will be writing the screenplay for a movie aboutVirgen of Guadelupethe Virgin of Guadalupe.  Though no director nor a green light has been given on the go ahead of this movie project, the fact that Joe Eszterhas is writing the screenplay is newsworthy in itself because of the author himself is enough to get the ball rolling in the right direction.

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One Response to Res et Explicatio for AD 8-7-2009

5 Responses to The Presidential Pledge

  • “No Comment”

  • “I pledge to be a servant to (President Barack) Obama…”

    I could write a whole post on the eeriness of a growing cult of worship of our new president. It seems it took the election of President Obama to make these people be “nice to others” and “change” their lives.

    All I needed was our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    Sad.

  • The excellent Iowahawk has also updated “The Idiossey” to include the vanquishing of Obamacle’s enemies “Crustius” and “Palina, huntress of Wasilla” and the Inauguration:

    http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/dburge/2009/01/22/the-idiossey/

    The guy is brilliant.

  • Thank you Donna! I hope Iowahawk is cashing in on his writing skill in real life. He truly is one of the wittiest writers I can think of currently, on or off the net.

  • A cross-section:

    …by supporting..our local food bank –Check
    …to be a great mother –Been trying for 20+ years, still at it.
    …to consider myself an American –Since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. I’m first-gen on one side, BTW.
    …to find a service project –Check. Check. Check. Check…
    …to never give anyone the finger while driving –Who do you think I am?
    …to always find the humor in everything –Sat through this, didn’t I?
    …to meet my neighbors…be of service to them –Check. What, they don’t do that in Hollyweird?
    …to reduce my use of plastic –Done it for years, not to mention recycling.
    …to no longer use plastic bags –Had the reusables in service since the late ’80’s.
    …to flush only after… –TMI, Jason.
    …to turn the lights off –Been doing that since about the age of ten.
    …to not use as much gas –Can’t afford the hybrid, but my car gets 30+/gal
    …to be a servant to our president –Are you out of your mind? Who do you think is paying his salary?

    Are we supposed to assume that it is only because their golden boy is in office that these wonders may now be attempted? What have they been doing for the past eight years, polluting the earth and pushing old ladies out of the way?