Remember, Remember

Saturday, November 5, AD 2016

gwpict

Remember, remember!
The fifth of November,
The Gunpowder treason and plot;
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!
Guy Fawkes and his companions
Did the scheme contrive,
To blow the King and Parliament
All up alive.
Threescore barrels, laid below,
To prove old England’s overthrow.
But, by God’s providence, him they catch,
With a dark lantern, lighting a match!
A stick and a stake
For King James’s sake!
If you won’t give me one,
I’ll take two,
The better for me,
And the worse for you.
A rope, a rope, to hang the Pope,
A penn’orth of cheese to choke him,
A pint of beer to wash it down,
And a jolly good fire to burn him.
Holloa, boys! holloa, boys! make the bells ring!
Holloa, boys! holloa boys! God save the King!
Hip, hip, hooor-r-r-ray!

Anti-Catholic Guy Fawkes Day Doggerel

 

 

 

 

 

The idiotic anti-Catholic celebration of Guy Fawkes Day , observed each November fifth, was effectively ended two hundred and forty one years ago in America during the Revolution, in large part due to George Washington.  Here is his order on November 5, 1775:

As the Commander in Chief has been apprized of a design form’d for the observance of that ridiculous and childish custom of burning the Effigy of the pope–He cannot help expressing his surprise that there should be Officers and Soldiers in this army so void of common sense, as not to see the impropriety of such a step at this Juncture; at a Time when we are solliciting, and have really obtain’d, the friendship and alliance of the people of Canada, whom we ought to consider as Brethren embarked in the same Cause. The defence of the general Liberty of America: At such a juncture, and in such Circumstances, to be insulting their Religion, is so monstrous, as not to be suffered or excused; indeed instead of offering the most remote insult, it is our duty to address public thanks to these our Brethren, as to them we are so much indebted for every late happy Success over the common Enemy in Canada.

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3 Responses to Remember, Remember

  • “Catholics always had a friend in the Father of Our Country”……..and Catholics continue to have a friend in the blogosphere of Christiandom, stretching well beyond our shores, thanks be to Donald McClarey.

    Your thoughts and efforts are appreciated.
    Your enthusiasm for history and sharing that enthusiasm, is priceless. Great work kind Sir.

    Eight years of the antithesis of President Washington, found of course in the lame duck,
    is eight years too many.
    May the woman who would be Queen be defeated in this battle for America. May Our Country be rid of the filthy plunders and cheats who care less about America’s future, and care more for their personal gains.
    May we hear from a future President of the United States that We Are one Nation Under God…the God that sacrificed his only begotten son, Our Lord Jesus Christ. The God who inspired the Holy Bible. The God who protected us and saved us from our enemies.
    The very same God who teaches us His law and instructs us in holiness.

    An abomination would proclaim that religions must change their views on abortion.
    May that abomination be silenced by the Americans that hold fast to the ten commandments. Americans that wish to instruct and nurture disordered individuals who struggle with same sex addiction and gender identity…not help them by enabling them and promoting their disordered conduct.

    Excuse my lengthy prayer.

    My hope is in the Lord.
    He will not disappoint.
    The future leadership of our nation is not out side of God’s reach. His is the final word long after this walk through the valley. His kingdom come..His will be done…

  • In Scotland, the 5th November is also commemorated as the day on which Prince William of Orange landed at Brixham Harbour in Devon, in the South-West of England in 1688.

    His statue there bears the remarkable inscription, “Engelands vrijheid door Oranje hersteld” – England’s freedom restored by Orange” ; calculated, doubtless to gladden every patriotic English heart.

    In Scotland, he is commonly said to have delivered us from wooden shoes and brass money (A reference, perhaps, to the French sabot or clog)

  • Guy Fawkes Day…how stupid.

November 5, 1775: Washington Ends Guy Fawkes Day

Thursday, November 5, AD 2015

gwpict

The idiotic anti-Catholic celebration of Guy Fawkes Day , observed each November fifth, was effectively ended two hundred and forty years ago in America during the Revolution, in large part due to George Washington.  Here is his order on November 5, 1775:

As the Commander in Chief has been apprized of a design form’d for the observance of that ridiculous and childish custom of burning the Effigy of the pope–He cannot help expressing his surprise that there should be Officers and Soldiers in this army so void of common sense, as not to see the impropriety of such a step at this Juncture; at a Time when we are solliciting, and have really obtain’d, the friendship and alliance of the people of Canada, whom we ought to consider as Brethren embarked in the same Cause. The defence of the general Liberty of America: At such a juncture, and in such Circumstances, to be insulting their Religion, is so monstrous, as not to be suffered or excused; indeed instead of offering the most remote insult, it is our duty to address public thanks to these our Brethren, as to them we are so much indebted for every late happy Success over the common Enemy in Canada.

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14 Responses to November 5, 1775: Washington Ends Guy Fawkes Day

  • There would not be a United States of America if not for the assistance received from the (then Catholic) nations of France and Spain. Kosciuszko and Pulaski had roles as well – their Catholicism is open to questtion, but – no Catholic help, no country. Had the New Englanders not been so anti Catholic, Quebec might have joined in and Great Britain would have been expelled from the Western Hemisphere.
    A consequence is that Great Britain assisted the South Americans in their wars for Independence from Spain (mostly naval battles).

  • In Scotland, Guy Fawkes’s Day is a double celebration, commemorating not only the foiling of the Gunpowder Plot in 1605, but the landing of “King Billy” (William of Orange) at Brixham on that day in 1689, marking the beginning of the Glorious Revolution and “delivering us from wooden shoes and brass money” (believed to be the concomitants of Popery.)

  • MPS….
    The Scot celebration of this “day” is one big reason I emphasize my Polish ancestry over my Scot ancestry……though Clan Lamont, of which the McLuckie family is related to as a Sept family, has as its Chief an Australian Catholic priest…so those Campbells and other Calvinist clans can take a hike.
    In my reading of history, I have noticed that the Scots usually fought the English…or each other.
    The Poles have fought Mongols, Tatars, Ottoman Turks, Swedes, Germans, Russians, or to put it another way, fought pagans, Muslims, heretical Protestants, schismatic Orthodox, Nazis and atheist Communists.
    I wonder if there are any video games that let one match ancient armies against each other. The Campbells against the Polish Husaria would be fun.

  • Believe it or not, Guy Fawkes Day is still celebrated in certain locations in Rhode Island, one of the places in the U.S. that has a high Catholic population. Go figure. It’s probably just another excuse to drink.

  • As if drinking to excess needs an excuse..

  • Penguin Fan wrote, “In my reading of history, I have noticed that the Scots usually fought the English…or each other.”
    I frequently attend the Church of Saint-Germain-des-Prés, near my little pied-à-terre in Paris and, when I do so, I visit the tombs of William Douglas, 11th Earl of Angus, who went into exile rather than renounce the Old Religion and died in 1611 and of his gallant grandson, James, who died aged 20 in the French service in 1637. He was Colonel of the Scottish regiment, renamed « Régiment Écossois de Douglas » in his honour. On their arms is the heart of King Robert the Bruce that their ancestor, Sir James Douglas, flung into the Moorish ranks at the battle of Teba, knowing that the Scottish knights would press on and recover it at all hazards.
    Indeed, the Scottish “free companies” regularly took service with the French Crown, throughout the Middle Ages and right up to the Revolution. Many also saw service in the Northern Crusades on the Baltic.
    One rather charming story concerns my neighbours in Ayrshire, the Kennedys. After the Maid had raised the siege of Orléans, the parsimonious Dauphin was unwilling to fund her proposed Loire campaign and she told the Scottish Free Companies that she could no longer pay them. One of their leaders, Anthony Kennedy laughed and demand of his his comrades, “Since when did we need paying to fight the English” – Now, that was a miracle, if you like. He never was paid, but received a grant of arms from Charles VII that the family still bear, the noblest of any private family in Europe.
    http://tinyurl.com/o29m4tv

  • MPS, I knew you would find exceptions. Clan Lamont suffered greatly due to remaining with the One True Faith…as did my German ancestors who left Frankfurt rather than submit to Bismarck.
    Back to the subject…due to that lousy movie with Natalie Portman, many have become aware of Guy Fawkes, but know nothing of him.

  • (Campbell and Catholic here. Thank God for ancestors who went against the grain.) George Washington’s portrait is certainly not out of place in the Catholic home!

  • Suz, according to the Clan Lamont website, Lamonts and Campbells often married each other. We may be distantly related.

  • I’m a Canadian of Scottish-Irish heritage. Both my maternal grandparents, from the province of Prince Edward Island, are of Clan Campbell and both were Catholic. I have a Campbell ancestor who fought with General Wolfe on the Plains of Abraham at Quebec City in 1759. The Canadian maritime provinces (particularly P.E.I. and Nova Scotia) are full of Catholic Scots who were transported to Canada during the Highland clearances. The Protestant clan chiefs preferred sheep to Papist tenant farmers it seems. Canada’s gain, Scotland’s loss. Och aye!

    Can’t say I share Washington’s well intentioned idea that Canada should have joined the American union, as I’m a proud Canuck, though I very much like the US and Americans. I was proud to hold a Queen’s commission in the Royal Canadian Air Force as a ally of US forces.

    I mean no disrespect but Washington’s portrait would be a wee bit out of place in my parlour, … though that great British patriot General Benedict Arnold might be considered a candidate.

    Cheers,

  • Ah, John, if Arnold had succeeded in his Christmas assault on Quebec in 1775, imagine how much history would have been changed! My mother was a Newf, who later became an American citizen. My great Uncle Bill, who joined the British Army in 1939 because, as he said, someone had to show the Limies how to fight, used to call me a Dirty Yank when I was a toddler and I would respond by calling him a Dirty Newf, to the vast amusement of all!

  • “I mean no disrespect but Washington’s portrait would be a wee bit out of place in my parlour”

  • John the mad- great comments. – i’m with you. sort of. Washington hangs in my home office den. The Sacred Heart hangs in my parlour.
    Washington the Great was a Mason and i recall reading incite on his decision not to antagonize the catholics with a Guy Fawkes celebration during the war – was a move more astute as a commander short of good men than conciliatorygesture to a religious group – but bishop Carroll’s own tribute to George the Great is a masterpiece to be found elsewhere and I will not 2nd guess the first Bishop of these United States on this item . further……Bishop Carroll directed all pastors to offer a homily or eulogy tribute to Washington and for ALL catholics to grieve and observe the funeral day of George in a fitting manner – allow me to quote a part – ” the executive of the state of maryland has appointed the 22nd of next february as a day of general mourning of the death of Gen’l Washington , and for a solemn tribute of respect to his memory, I likewise recommend too and direct my reverend brethren to give notice to their respective congregations, to observe the day with a reverence expressive of their veneration for the deceased Father of his Country and the founder of its independence, to beseech almighty God to inspire into those who are now or here after may be invested with authority , to pursue his wise, firm,just and peaceable maxims of government…. we are chiefly indebted to his unwearied perseverance,temperate valor exemplary disinterestedness and consummate prudence……. my reverend brethren are advised not to form their discourses on the model of a funeral service, reduced from a text of scripture, rather to compose a narration such as might be delivered in an academy and on a plan bearing some resemblance to that of St Ambrose on the death of the young emperor Valentinian who had discovered in an early age a gem of those extraordinary qualities which expanded themselves in Washington and flourished with so much lustre during a life of unremitting exertions and eminent usefulness. The bishops’ directive honoring Washington goes on. The very last line is a reminder to all pastors and calls out a reverence which has significantly lessened among Catholic hierarchy “if these discourses should be delivered in churches where the Holy Sacrament is usually kept, it will be proper to remove it[sic] with due honor to some decent place ”

    the historic story of st. mary’s church albany n.y. by rev john j dillon,pastor 1933 p.j. kennedy and sons 12 barclay st ny, ny. pg.80-81
    thanks Don!

  • John the Mad: Why are you mad? As a subject to a monarch, you could appreciate the freedom of the sovereign person, created equal, and for whose individual freedom Gen. George Washington fought and understood and for whom Washington rallied. Freedom from religious prejudice is precious since prejudice is detrimental to the entire community. Religious prejudice prevents the common good and the general welfare. from The Preamble .

Remember, Remember

Tuesday, November 5, AD 2013

The idiotic anti-Catholic celebration of Guy Fawkes Day , observed each November fifth, was effectively ended in America during the Revolution, in large part due to George Washington.  Here is his order on November 5, 1775:

As the Commander in Chief has been apprized of a design form’d for the observance of that ridiculous and childish custom of burning the Effigy of the pope–He cannot help expressing his surprise that there should be Officers and Soldiers in this army so void of common sense, as not to see the impropriety of such a step at this Juncture; at a Time when we are solliciting, and have really obtain’d, the friendship and alliance of the people of Canada, whom we ought to consider as Brethren embarked in the same Cause. The defence of the general Liberty of America: At such a juncture, and in such Circumstances, to be insulting their Religion, is so monstrous, as not to be suffered or excused; indeed instead of offering the most remote insult, it is our duty to address public thanks to these our Brethren, as to them we are so much indebted for every late happy Success over the common Enemy in Canada.

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3 Responses to Remember, Remember

  • In Scotland, the 5th November is also kept by some as the anniversary of the landing of the Prince of Orange at Brixham harbour in England, delivering us, so we are assured, from “popery, slavery, wooden shoes and brass money.”

    Those whose forebears died at Kiliecrankie Pass with the Glory of the Grahams (the “Bluidy Clavers” of Covenanter legend) take a different view.

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  • Is there any real difference between “We Wun’t Be Druv!” and “Don’t Tread on Me!”?

    I think not.

    Trust in God, and keep your powder dry.

Remember, Remember

Monday, November 5, AD 2012

The idiotic anti-Catholic celebration of Guy Fawkes Day , observed each November fifth, was effectively ended in America during the Revolution, in large part due to George Washington.  Here is his order on November 5, 1775:

As the Commander in Chief has been apprized of a design form’d for the observance of that ridiculous and childish custom of burning the Effigy of the pope–He cannot help expressing his surprise that there should be Officers and Soldiers in this army so void of common sense, as not to see the impropriety of such a step at this Juncture; at a Time when we are solliciting, and have really obtain’d, the friendship and alliance of the people of Canada, whom we ought to consider as Brethren embarked in the same Cause. The defence of the general Liberty of America: At such a juncture, and in such Circumstances, to be insulting their Religion, is so monstrous, as not to be suffered or excused; indeed instead of offering the most remote insult, it is our duty to address public thanks to these our Brethren, as to them we are so much indebted for every late happy Success over the common Enemy in Canada.

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11 Responses to Remember, Remember

  • I’m beginning to think that Communist propaganda has nothing on the older Protestant variety. Apparently its all harmless fun; burning Guy Fawkes in effigy, taunting Catholics as Papists until one realises that Cromwell was a murderous maniac and the Tudor Settlement of Ireland was nothing but a massive land grab by the genocidal Puritans.

  • If only people remembered it for that, at least it would be something outside the 5 minute attention span of modern British people. Outside of Lewes, which burns the Pope, and various other infamous dignitaries in effigy, there is more concentration of having an excuse to let off fireworks for over a month, and have a night out, weather permitting.
    Since encountering the Libertarian movement online, I have been confused at the fact that Guido is hailed as some sort of freedom fighter – probably to be played by Mel Gibson in any film version – rather than a monarchist who wanted to reinstate what he and others saw as the legitimate monarch of Britain. Sadly, the Papacy’s earlier fatwa – sorry, encyclical – against Elizabeth didn’t really set the tone for future relations, as it really became a life or death matter, especially for young Catholics, who subsequently went to Europe and got radicalised. Gosh, I’m sorry, how the language of today slips in 😉
    I am reading through Rothbard’s Conceived in Liberty, and of course Catholics didn’t have it much better in the colonies, outside of Rhode Island (for a while).

    I’m not sure there is right or wrong fully on either side. Nationalism was rising and clashing with the Empire of yesterday, and people could be forgiven for not adapting sooner to the changes, or for thinking the new social movement was actually about liberty, rather than a redistribution of power from one clerical power to another.

  • “I am reading through Rothbard’s Conceived in Liberty, and of course Catholics didn’t have it much better in the colonies, outside of Rhode Island (for a while).”
    Pennsylavania was tolerant of Catholics, and in Maryland Catholics could worship although they could not participate in government. Our glorious Revolution of 1776 began to change all that with lightning speed.

    “Sadly, the Papacy’s earlier fatwa – sorry, encyclical – against Elizabeth”

    No need for ahistorical childishness. Elizabeth treated Catholics as a criminal class that the government could imprison, dispossess and execute as it so pleased. Guy Fawkes and his compatriots had the amazing thought that Catholics should not be treated as criminals for wishing to follow the religion of their forefathers.

  • Ivan-
    I’m actually kind of glad that my public school history classes were so horribly bad; I didn’t have a lot of the “known” stuff to overcome when I found out it was, shocker, just anti-Catholic and/or anti-Religious mythology.

    People always see reason for ahistorical childishness when they don’t have anything better to support their views. It’s like being funny, without having to actually be witty.

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  • You’re right of course Donald, although I have seen both sides, having been Baptist until recently when I began my conversion. The Tudors persecuted Baptists as well as Catholics. However, the resistance to Elizabeth from Rome was not because of her treatment of individual catholics (after all, Protestants met the same fate in Europe, under Mary, and even under Henry VIII if they weren’t the right kind), but her survival of an uprising by catholics who sought to use force to unthrone her, much as the later 1605 plot hoped.

    Guido Fawkes was engaged in actions designed to reinstate a Catholic monarch, but if the plot had succeeded then persecution of Protestants would have been just as virulent. No one has clean hands from that time, except probably the Quakers.

    I’m sorry, i didn’t realise I needed my sense of humour removed once I became a catholic.

    Btw Pennsylvania as an English colony came later. Maryland ended up with a Protestant majority, and catholicism was outlawed after 1688 by the otherwise much vaunted William of Orange. There was also persecution of catholics in Maryland in the 1650s during the Commonwealth.

  • “However, the resistance to Elizabeth from Rome was not because of her treatment of individual catholics (after all, Protestants met the same fate in Europe, under Mary, and even under Henry VIII if they weren’t the right kind), but her survival of an uprising by catholics who sought to use force to unthrone her, much as the later 1605 plot hoped.”

    After her accession Elizabeth played a clever game for some years in which it could be hoped by the Church that she would eventually restore Catholicism or at least tolerate it. Elizabeth came to the throne in 1558 and the bull Regnans in Excelsis of 1570 could be regarded as a tardy recognition of the fact that Elizabeth was an enemy of the Church. In the crushing of the Howard rebellion in 1569 she had some 750 of the rebels excuted, a fairly bloody action even for those sanguinary times. In the face of such an action I do not see what any Pope could do other than to recognize reality.

    Your assumption about what Guy Fawkes and his compatriots would have done in regard to persecuting Protestants is just that, an assumption. Considering the power of Protestants in England I rather think they would have called for toleration, if only as a means of survival.

    “Btw Pennsylvania as an English colony came later. Maryland ended up with a Protestant majority, and catholicism was outlawed after 1688 by the otherwise much vaunted William of Orange. There was also persecution of catholics in Maryland in the 1650s during the Commonwealth.”

    Yes, I have a passing familiarity with American history, as several hundred posts on this blog can attest, along with several hundred additional posts on my American history blog Almost Chosen People. The Catholics in Maryland passed the Edict of Toleration in 1649, would that their example had been followed by their Protestant brethren after they came to power.

  • Food for thought:

    Betsy Newmark (a teacher, I think) quoted at Instapundit: “Given that Guy Fawkes [Gunpowder Conspiracy] was part of a Catholic conspiracy against Protestants, here is an interesting observation that occurred to me if Romney should win and the Democrats maintain control of the Senate: in that scenario, there would be no Protestants at the top levels of any of our three branches of government. Romney and Reid are Mormons; Ryan, Boehner, and Durbin (Majority Whip) are Catholics, and Eric Cantor, the Majority Leader of the House is Jewish. And the Supreme Court has three Jews and six Catholics. Think about that in the context of the history of prejudice against Catholics, Mormons, and Jews in our nation’s history. Having just talked about nativism in 19th century U.S. history, I find this factoid simply amazing – in some ways, just as eye-opening as the first African-American president.”

  • Foxfier,

    Its easy to figure out that there is a pattern to the vilification of Catholics. Guy Fawkes conspired to return the Pope’s authority, that of a foreigner over England and thus should be abhorred by all true Englishmen, but when Protestant schemers some eighty years invited another foreigner William of Orange to overthrow a lawful king, James II, that should count as a patriotic act to thwart Catholic autocracy. Living under autocracy sounds terrible until one realises that for the ordinary Briton it would have made little difference whether he was leveed by the King or by some usurping earls or thieves such as Raleigh or some other pirate. Limitless greed for the Church’s wealth fired much of the reforming zeal of the Protestants.

  • Ivan-
    you have to realize it’s a possibility before you can see the pattern, and even if you know it’s possible, you have to have more information than we were offered.

    Even in American history, we never got into what religion this or that official type person was; Fawks would’ve been mentioned as Catholic, just to tie him to the Catholic Irish Terrorists (no mention of anyone being Protestant, just not-Catholic) and the myths about “the Crusade and Inquisition” were pretty much assumed.

    Folk history.

  • Heck, I didn’t even know until some guy over on Ricochet tried to defend the then-King Fawks was going to attack by demanding to know how many folks had been harassed between James becoming king and the plot being caught. Three known martyrs in the two years, for things like “being a priest.” I knew that property could be taken, and similar things, but didn’t realized being caught as a priest was automatic death– and that helping one was likewise, unless you recanted. (and that’s before one gets into the theory that it was all a setup to make James hate Catholics, in part because they used gun powder, which was supposedly a state monopoly.)

Remember, Remember

Friday, November 5, AD 2010

The idiotic anti-Catholic celebration of Guy Fawkes Day , observed each November fifth, was effectively ended in America during the Revolution in large part due to George Washington.  Here is his order on November 5, 1775:

As the Commander in Chief has been apprized of a design form’d for the observance of that ridiculous and childish custom of burning the Effigy of the pope–He cannot help expressing his surprise that there should be Officers and Soldiers in this army so void of common sense, as not to see the impropriety of such a step at this Juncture; at a Time when we are solliciting, and have really obtain’d, the friendship and alliance of the people of Canada, whom we ought to consider as Brethren embarked in the same Cause. The defence of the general Liberty of America: At such a juncture, and in such Circumstances, to be insulting their Religion, is so monstrous, as not to be suffered or excused; indeed instead of offering the most remote insult, it is our duty to address public thanks to these our Brethren, as to them we are so much indebted for every late happy Success over the common Enemy in Canada.

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3 Responses to Remember, Remember

  • I didn’t know of this. Yet another reason to honor the Father of our Country.

  • “First in war; first in peace; first in the hearts of his countrymen.”

    Having read, in the past several years, McCullough’s 1776 and Barnet Schecter’s The Battle of New York, I marvel at Washington’s courage and determination. He (in my opinion) held it all together and single-handedly forestalled military defeat of the revolution.

    And, I believe that Divine intervention brought our country into being.

    Guy Fawkes was the name of a saloon in NYC in the 60’s and 70’s. I am no longer allowed to do that stuff.

  • What is up with this being so *big* this year?

    It’s been everywhere– even facebook games are incorporating the dang thing.

George Washington and Catholics

Thursday, November 5, AD 2009

America has been blessed by God in many ways but I suspect no blessing has been greater than His granting us George Washington to lead us in our struggle for independence and to be our first President.  Catholics have perhaps more reason than other Americans to keep the memory of Washington alive in our hearts.  In a time of strong prejudice against Catholics in many parts of the colonies he was free from religious bigotry as he demonstrated on November 5, 1775 when he banned the anti-Catholic Guy Fawkes celebrations.

“As the Commander in Chief has been apprized of a design form’d for the observance of that ridiculous and childish custom of burning the Effigy of the pope – He cannot help expressing his surprise that there should be Officers and Soldiers in this army so void of common sense, as not to see the impropriety of such a step at this Juncture; at a Time when we are solliciting, and have really obtain’d, the friendship and alliance of the people of Canada, whom we ought to consider as Brethren embarked in the same Cause. The defence of the general Liberty of America: At such a juncture, and in such Circumstances, to be insulting their Religion, is so monstrous, as not to be suffered or excused; indeed instead of offering the most remote insult, it is our duty to address public thanks to these our Brethren, as to them we are so much indebted for every late happy Success over the common Enemy in Canada.”

Order in Quarters, November 5, 1775

– George Washington

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25 Responses to George Washington and Catholics

  • President Washington is by far my favorite president. I know that he was a mason and consequently has been a figure of esteam for masons I have met in the past. So with what was written above and what I researched myself – I still get confused as to how he could have been so pro-catholic and be a mason… anyone have input on this?

  • Very interesting — had no idea about this. I linked over at Inside Catholic; thanks for sharing!

  • In spite of those historians who happen to believe that Washington’s primary reason for this ‘politically-correct’ move then was purely for pragmatic reasons and not actually due to any genuine consideration for Catholics in general, I personally happen to admire Washington nonetheless for his wisdom and exceptional leadership.

  • Masons in this country have to be distinguished from Masons in Europe. Masons in the US have largely been free of the anti-clericalism that infested European Masons. In the time of Washington in America, Masonic lodges provided an opportunity for men to get together to eat, drink, engage in boisterous good humored conversation and participate in “secret” rituals. In short to be boys again with the addition of alcohol. Masons would often help fund good works in the community such as relief of the local poor, etc. I doubt if Washington took belonging to the Masons much more seriously than most people today view belonging to the Rotarians, the Lions, etc.

  • So is Donald implying that the Masons in America were more of the “Skull and Bones” secret society version?

  • Nope e. I am stating that they were more like modern Rotarians, with announced meetings and known meeting places. The only thing “secret” about the Masons was their ritual flapdoodle.

  • Does the KofC count? ;^)

  • e., stop mentioning the KofC, or you might be paid a visit by one of my squirrel albino assassins. 🙂

  • “Very interesting — had no idea about this. I linked over at Inside Catholic; thanks for sharing!”

    Thank you Margaret!

  • Freemasonry is not anti-Catholic. Catholicism is anti-Masonic. Freemasonry welcomes men of any religion. Freemasonry stands for abosolute freedom of conscience, and encourages members to honor their commitments to their own religion. Freemasonry is spiritual, not religious.

    There is a difference for some members of the Freemasons from social clubs like the Rotary or Lions. Freemasonry o ffers a potential opportunity to study spirituality differently than most do. Many members take advantage of this, many do not.

    All of this said, there is no central authority that defines what Freemasonry is or believes: it is what the individual Mason, Lodge and Grand Lodge make of it. There is no set Credo.

    There is no contradiction between Pres. Washington praising Catholicism and being a Mason. There is no big surprise about Pres. Washington having respect for the Roman Catholic Church. Among British upper classes, the reformation was still being debated, and American gentry were part of that debate.

  • “There is no contradiction between Pres. Washington praising Catholicism and being a Mason. There is no big surprise about Pres. Washington having respect for the Roman Catholic Church. Among British upper classes, the reformation was still being debated, and American gentry were part of that debate.”

    Very interesting. Would you kindly provide references that would corroborate this?

    “Freemasonry is not anti-Catholic. Catholicism is anti-Masonic. Freemasonry welcomes men of any religion. Freemasonry stands for abosolute freedom of conscience, and encourages members to honor their commitments to their own religion. Freemasonry is spiritual, not religious.”

    If true, this would make some sort of sense out of why Mozart himself was a mason (at least, some claim he was).

  • Steve,

    Masonry is anti-Christian in many ways–as it violates and encourages man to take part in rituals that go against what Christianity teaches–e.g. blood oaths.

    It is forbidden in Catholicism for good reason.

    – Freemasonry teaches about a resurrection to an afterlife whether or not the Mason accepts Jesus Christ.

    – Freemasonry believes that all religions lead to one God

    – Masons do not pray in Jesus’ name.

    The primary reason for the Church’s opposition to Freemasonry is that Freemasonry promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate paths to God. Freemasonry promotes indifferentism in many ways, such as by inviting all religious writings to take an equal place on the Masonic altar with the Sacred Scriptures, and promoting a common religious worship through esoteric ritual. The other reason why Masonry is incompatible with the Christian faith concerns Masonry’s requirement that its members swear oaths of self-donation to the organization and its principles under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of self-mutilation and death.

  • It is silly to say Freemasonry welcomes men of all religions, when it encourages beliefs and for men to take oaths against and in violation of the practice of their religion.

    I think particularly of the masonic belief that there is a knowable Truth (the knowledge that is God) that can be achieved solely through man’s reason.

  • Buffalo Bill converted to Catholicism on his death bed and asked for a Catholic funeral. The Masons in Denver stole his body over the protests of his wife and had a great public parade and a completely non-Catholic funeral. This was reported in the papers in Denver at the time. I have always thought of this when trying to evaluate Washington’s connection with the Masons. If I wouldn’t trust what they said about Buffalo Bill why would I trust them on Washington.

  • Freemasonry is undoubtedly anti-Catholic. The Popes have repeatedly emphasized the incompatibility of Masonry with the Catholic faith (Paul outlines a few very clearly above). Additionally, there are numerous writings and actions that attest to its anti-Catholic nature.

    While it is true that the men at the local lodge may not know or realize this, it does not change the history regarding Masonry and what it stands for.

  • In 1776, the Continental Congress asked Carroll, his cousin Charles Carroll, Samuel Chase, and Benjamin Franklin to travel to Quebec and attempt to persuade the French Canadian population to join the revolution. Although the group was unsuccessful, it made Carroll well known to the government of the new republic. Carroll was in fact excommunicated by the local Quebec bishop, Jean-Olivier Briand.[4]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carroll_(bishop)

    If we were to assert that under no circumstances had a Mason been found willing to take arms against a bad government, we should only be declaring that, in trying moments, when duty, in the masonic sense, to state means antagonism to the Government, they had failed in the highest and most sacred duty of a citizen. Rebellion in some cases is a sacred duty, and none, but a bigot or a fool, will say, that our countrymen were in the wrong, when they took arms against King James II. Loyalty to freedom in a case of this kind overrides all other considerations, and when to rebel means to be free or to perish, it would be idle to urge that a man must remember obligations which were never intended to rob him of his status of a human being and a citizen. [201]

    and

    The Kadosh (thirtieth degree), trampling on the papal tiara and the royal crown, is destined to wreak a just vengeance on these “high criminals” for the murder of Molay [128] and “as the apostle of truth and the rights of man” [129] to deliver mankind “from the bondage of Despotism and the thraldom of spiritual Tyranny”. [130] “In most rituals of this degree everything breathes vengeance” against religious and political “Despotism”. [131]

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm

    One of his fondest wishes, however, came to naught: the use of vernacular languages in the liturgy. In 1787 he wrote “Can there be anything more preposterous than an unknown tongue; and in this country either for want of books or inability to read, the great part of our congregations must be utterly ignorant of the meaning and sense of the publick office of the Church. It may have been prudent, for aught I know, to impose a compliance in this matter with the insulting and reproachful demands of the first reformers; but to continue the practice of the Latin liturgy in the present state of things must be owing either to chimerical fears of innovation or to indolence and inattention in the first pastors of the national Churches in not joining to solicit or indeed ordain this necessary alteration.”[13]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carroll_(bishop)

    John Carroll was not consecrated bishop until August 15, 1790. While it would be more than a hundred years before Leo XIII condemned Americanism as a heresy, Bishop Carroll already seemed to desire “the Church in America to be different from what it is in the rest of the world” (Leo’s words in Testem Benevolentiae ). Carroll agitated for a vernacular liturgy, bishops elected by their people (no “foreign” appointments from Rome), and a pope with little practical authority over the Church. He also crossed the Bishop of Quebec, the saintly Bishop Briand, by escorting Benjamin Franklin there on an anti-English embassy that failed. (Recall that our Puritan forefathers had seriously offended the Catholic Québécois by declaring England’s toleration of the Faith there to be an “intolerable act”!) Perhaps most damning of Carroll’s integrity as an ecclesiastic is this fact, related in the New Catholic Encyclopedia , Volume 6: “The papal condemnations of Freemasonry were not promulgated in the American colonies by Bishop John Carroll. In fact his brother Daniel was an active Mason and a practicing Catholic. Bishop Carroll wrote to a layman in 1794 regarding the lodge question: ‘I do not pretend that these decrees (against Freemasonry) are received generally by the Church, or have full authority in this diocese.’” Thus was established, early on, the American tradition of ignoring Roman decrees.

    http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:iOXP9LgvkCYJ:catholicism.org/father-john-thayer.html+%22+do+not+pretend+that+these+decrees+(against+Freemasonry)+are+received+generally+by+the+Church,+or+have+full+authority+in+this+diocese%22&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&ie=UTF-8

    http://books.google.com/books?client=firefox-a&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html&id=5B8FAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22john+carroll%22&pg=PA126&sig=ACfU3U0Clz8E8ariAdE7rRWMXeo2O8zFBg&q=masons
    Your Eminence, when Father John Carroll, who was to become the first American bishop and the first Bishop and later Archbishop of Baltimore, accompanied John Adams and Benjamin Franklin to Québec to ask that the Canadians join in the American Revolution, the then Bishop Briand of Québec forbade his priests to have anything to do with the visitors and he actually excommunicated John Carroll. Bishop Briand had his reasons, in that the British had guaranteed the Catholics of Québec freedom of religion, a freedom which was not guaranteed at that time in the original thirteen rebellious colonies, where Catholics were often discriminated against. Bishop Briand saw no reason for Canadians to join the American colonies against the British, and he was very annoyed that a Catholic priest should be among those seeking to encourage Canadians to risk their religious liberty in what he considered to be a dubious cause. So he excommunicated Father Carroll – and there is no record of which I know that such an excommunication has ever been lifted.

    http://www.kofc.org/un/eb/en/convention_2008/addresses/sd_address_foley.html

    These articles are why I am not enamored of Washington or our first bishop. John Carroll was rightfully excommunicated. What right does a priest have to solicit aid for a political revolution? His first duty is the salvation of souls. Especially without first speaking with the bishop of the diocese. Free Masonry is duplicitous and from careful reading (which is necessary when reading anything written by influential Masons) it seems that Washington only opposed the celebrations since the French Catholics may be offended may refuse aid. Masonry is indifferent to all religions so the attendance of varying churches is more indicative of indifference- not necessarily favor. Neither did the Continental Congress ever repay the French government the loans it made. Not only that but they shared in the general delight when the monarchy in France (their former allies) fell. It is unfortunate since the French king was a better man and more honest. Not only that but our government congratulated the new Russian government when the Czar was deposed (also a former ally). He was a much better man than Wilson. Not all the monarchs were the tyrants we have been told they were in public schools. Not all the presidents were as virtuous as we have been led to believe. Our country has been heavily influenced by Masons from the beginning. Even many of our clergy. Read history. All practicing and high ranking Masons were not what they seemed. There are three words that come to my mind that applies to Free Masonry and those sufficiently initiated. Perfidious, evil and duplicitous. No doubt I will be heckled.- after all it does sound sort of incredible until you study it. However, save your breathe and read the sources at length and do some serious/ impartial research. Then see if you can find a copy of “Catholicism in New England” By the Rev Arthur J Riley. It may be hard as it is a dissertation for his degree in the 1930s but it is written well and is a treasure trove of documentation about a part of our history that most don’t know about. Best regards.

  • Robert, in regard to your comment:

    1. The excommunication imposed against Carroll by the Quebec Bishop was clearly done for purely political purposes as the Bishop was a supporter of the British and had no impact on the standing of Carroll with the Church. It was a misuse of the authority granted to the Bishop.

    2. Considering the fact that Leo XIII noted John Carroll had been set up as first Bishop in the US by “apostolic authority” I doubt if he shared the same animus you feel against John Carroll.

    3. Anti-masony tends to quickly fall into tin foil hat territory. The Church had good reason to oppose free masonry in Europe, but too often this worthy effort is seized upon by paranoid conspiracy mongers.

  • Actually if you would read the rest of the New Advent article and the sources you would see you are clearly wrong. I used no sources that were particularly conspiritorial and do not normal countenance such views. Unfortunately after a review of the facts there is no other answer. Carroll denied the authority of the Vatican in his diocese- that is clearly different from asking for a pastoral concession. Mason have historically been conspiritorial and never have disavowed their connection with the Latin Orient. They merely discountance their methods if you read closely.

    No the excommunication was done because he sought to enlist the Canadians in a foreign war that was not necessary. There was danger to life and limb of the members of his flock without suffiecient cause. Carroll came in like a wolf- over the walls and used his status as a priest to try to persuade the Canadians to join. He never deigned to approach the Bishop of Quebec first. Hence it was more of a pastoral than political issue for the bishop. He was a vagus in doing so.

    Most likely the Vatican felt the selection could have been worse. If you read you will note that there was sufficient concern on the part of the American clergy not to offend the protestants, etc in this country. If the Vatican appointed someone it was strongly possible the American government would have objected. as a matter of fact they sought information from the government as to whatwas acceptable. If you had read you would have noticed that he was elected and confirmed by the Vatican- not appointed as was normal procedure. It was obvious to the pope that if he objected that the American clergy were not steadfastly loyal to Rome and that Catholics in this country would have been persecuted even more in this country. There was no other real option.

    Please trouble yourself to read all the sources. I know it is inconvenient but you claim the arguments are inadequate but have countered none of them. Instead you have merely presented personal opinions which you honestly admit are such when you say “I do not think”, etc. I respect you honesty as such. However you have implied I am a nut and have not deigned to offer a different interpetation or refutation of those articles. Please trouble yourself to do so. It is only intellectually honest as I am certain you will concede.Thank you.

  • Robert in regard to the excommunication you merely support what I was saying. A Bishop has no right to excommunicate anyone because they take a differing position on a political issue unrelated to the Church and that is precisely what the Bishop of Quebec did.

    The Vatican had no problem approving Carroll as Bishop. I have found nothing in the historical record indicating otherwise. The Vatican approved the procedure of the election of the Bishop by the clergy prior to the election being held.

  • Whispers in the Loggia had composed an entry that pays fitting tribute to the great man who was the Father of American Catholicism:

    In the Beginning….

    His legacy plugged by no less than The Pope Himself — who recalled him with “admiration and gratitude” in addressing his many heirs last week — the father of American Catholicism, John Carroll of Baltimore, took center stage in a major lecture given Tuesday night in the cathedral he envisioned, but never saw completed: Charmopolis’ Basilica of the Assumption.

    Held to commemorate both the bicentennial of Carroll’s elevation as the nation’s first archbishop and the impending reception of the pallium by his 14th successor, Archbishop Edwin O’Brien, on-deck for the talk was one of the bench’s handful of historian-prelates, Archbishop Timothy Dolan of Milwaukee.

    Held to commemorate both the bicentennial of Carroll’s elevation as the nation’s first archbishop and the impending reception of the pallium by his 14th successor, Archbishop Edwin O’Brien, on-deck for the talk was one of the bench’s handful of historian-prelates, Archbishop Timothy Dolan of Milwaukee.

    (To think: 25,000 Catholics in thirteen colonies at The Founding… 22 priests… not a lot of money… and a whole lot of misunderstanding and discrimination… and you think we had it bad?)

    On a related note, Carroll was also the launch-pad of O’Brien’s homily at Baltimore’s bicentennial liturgy earlier this month.

    Bishop Carroll took possession of his See in December, 1790 and his inaugural sermon makes clear his state of mind. Of his appointment he said, “I have always dreaded it.” And given the immense challenge that faced him it is easy to see why. “Everything had to be raised from its foundation,” he said with scant resources at hand and a Catholic people among the poorest in the city and countryside. He specified the challenge in his sermon: canonical structures, schools, native clergy, a newly-founded seminary, schools and the evangelization of her near and distant flock.

    His goal, he said, was “to have nothing in view but God and your salvation.” He went on to say, “My heart sinks almost under the impression of terror which comes upon it. In God alone can I find any consolation…He will not abandon me…Pray, dear brethren, pray incessantly (for me.).”

    Pray, they must have. And no, God did not abandon him.

    As founding bishop, this premier missionary and persevering evangelizer of our new nation truly laid the foundation of Catholicism in America . He convinced Rome and some skeptics at home of the compatibility of Catholicism and a free democracy. A friend and confidant of Benjamin Franklin, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and a supporter of many civil causes and institutions, what Washington is to our country, John Carroll is to the Church in our country. In his 25 years of shepherding, the Catholic population of the expansive Church of Baltimore doubled as did our number of native priests. He founded three colleges and two seminaries and strongly promoted the foundation of many religious orders, receiving the vows of the now St. Elizabeth Seton. He would go on to encourage and support the establishment of both the first distinctly American community of religious women and of the first Catholic school in our land…

    http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2008/04/in-beginning.html

  • As I recall, the Vatican approving locally selected bishops (rather than centralling appointing bishops) was more common in the 18th century than it is now. And if one goes back a few centuries more, it was in fact the norm.

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  • There are, however, some intriguing hints — and at the very least Washington (known to offer up his suffering and to have a woman “say the beads” for him) was far more spiritual than most of our history teachers taught

    Most tantalizing was a report in volume 4, number 12 of an old nineteenth-century veterans publication known as the National Tribune. Now known as Stars and Stripes, the publication quoted a man named Anthony Sherman as describing a vision that allegedly occurred in 1777.

    It was said that as the chilly wind murmured through leafless trees, Washington, who was known to wander alone praying, spent nearly the entire afternoon in his quarters, allowing no interruptions. “When he came out, I noticed that his face was a shade paler than usual, and there seemed to be something on his mind of more than ordinary importance,” claimed Sherman, who reputedly fought alongside Washington.

    Returning just after dusk, he dispatched an orderly to the quarters of the officer who was presently in attendance. After a preliminary conversation of about half an hour, Washington, gazing upon his companion with that strange look of dignity which he alone could command, said to the latter: “I do not know whether it is owing to the anxiety of my mind, or what, but this afternoon as I was sitting at this table engaged in preparing a dispatch, something seemed to disturb me. Looking up, I beheld standing opposite me a singularly beautiful female. So astonished was I, for I had given strict order not to be disturbed, that it was some moments before I found language to inquire into the cause of her presence. A second, third, and even a fourth time did I repeat my question, but received no answer from my mysterious visitor except a slight raising of her eyes. By this time I felt strange sensations spreading through me. I would have risen but the riveted gaze of the being before me rendered volition impossible. I assayed once more to address her, but my tongue had become useless. Even thought itself had become paralyzed. A new influence, mysterious, potent, irresistible, took possession of me. All I could do was to gaze steadily, vacantly at my unknown visitant.”

  • Read the CDF document, Quaesitum est (1983) on Freemasonry. It’s clear enough. No one is condemning the wonderful work the local lodges do. What I’ve been reading in the above personal opinions seems similar to what I’ve read from those who know exactly what Vatican II says, even though they haven’t read the documents nor the commentaries written by those who were there.

Remember, Remember…

Wednesday, November 5, AD 2008

washington1

Today is Guy Fawkes’ Day in England.  This Catholic-bashing holiday is not observed in America and the Father of Our Country is largely the reason why.

“As the Commander in Chief has been apprized of a design form’d for the observance of that ridiculous and childish custom of burning the Effigy of the pope – He cannot help expressing his surprise that there should be Officers and Soldiers in this army so void of common sense, as not to see the impropriety of such a step at this Juncture; at a Time when we are solliciting, and have really obtain’d, the friendship and alliance of the people of Canada, whom we ought to consider as Brethren embarked in the same Cause. The defence of the general Liberty of America: At such a juncture, and in such Circumstances, to be insulting their Religion, is so monstrous, as not to be suffered or excused; indeed instead of offering the most remote insult, it is our duty to address public thanks to these our Brethren, as to them we are so much indebted for every late happy Success over the common Enemy in Canada.”

Order in Quarters, November 5, 1775

— George Washington

After the election results of last night, for those of us on the losing side, it is good to remember just how wonderful a nation America truly is.

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14 Responses to Remember, Remember…

  • I don’t remember where I read this, but when I find it, I’ll post it, but I read that George Washington converted to the Catholic faith on his deathbed.

    I’ll do some research to get more information on this. Just curious if any of our readers can supply some more information on this.

  • It would be nice if he had Tito, but the conversion story of Washington is merely a pious fable with no historical validity. A completely made up tale. However, throughout his life Washington was friendly to Catholics and contributed to the construction of a Catholic Church.

  • “Catholic Bashing”? or simply a tradition,harking back to a time when Catholic Plotters tried to blow up the Houses of Parliament.

    As a Catholic I participate,I even build a guy with my children,but I don’t take it personally,because I don’t identify with Guido Fawkes and the plotters. I have no wish to bomb people.

    Maybe you do?

  • Yes Catholic Bashing. Consider this charming traditional Guy Fawkes rhyme:

    “A penny loaf to feed ol’ Pope.
    A farthing cheese to choke him.
    A pint of beer to rinse it down.
    A faggot of sticks to burn him.
    Burn him in a tub of tar.
    Burn him like a blazing star.
    Burn his body from his head.
    Then we’ll say ol’ Pope is dead.
    Hip hip hooray!
    Hip hip hooray!”

    As for Guy Fawkes and the other plotters they were attacking a state that had made their religion a criminal offense and executed priests who attempted to minister to faithful Catholics. I would rise in revolt against such a government in an instant.

  • Don’t listen to the dhimmi troll.

  • B.C.,

    I would rise up as well. You’ve been dhimmitized by your Protestant Overlords.

  • I’m just happy he didn’t want to pick on us Canadians.

    Good lesson for the new guy.

  • I love Canadians!

    I’m just curious why PM Harper, of the ‘Conservative’ Party, is so bashful on dealing with life issues such as abortion and traditional marriage.

  • The plain truth is that a large part the Canadian electorate is paranoid about a hidden right wing agenda. Harpers’ Government is only in a minority situation in parliment and if he wants to survive he’ll have to wait and secure a majority position before he directly attacks life issues.

    But even then, it may not hit his agenda.

    If you think American Catholics don’t vote thier faith, Canadian Catholics are even less assertive. An entire generation threw in the towel.

  • The only ‘Catholic bashing’ bonfire night celebrations in Britain today are those in Lewes. But then they are also commemorating the seventeen Protestant martyrs burnt at the stake there. Throughout our history the Catholics have been persecutors as well as the persecuted. Bloody Mary had 300 Protestants burned at the stake due to their faith. If bonfire night is anti Catholic then the fourth of July is anti British. By the way I am C of E.

  • Comparing Guy Fawkes day to the Fourth of July is ludicrous. We did not have centuries following the Revolution during which English-Americans were discriminated against. Catholics in England during the reign of Bad Queen Bess had anti-Catholic law after anti-Catholic law heaped upon them. Catholics were not given full civil rights until the Catholic Relief Act in 1829. The Gordon riots in 1780 against the Papists Act of 1778 demonstrated the depth of anti-Catholic bigotry in England. Guy Fawkes Day is a legacy of bitter religious bigotry.

  • Well I certainly wouldn’t defend any of the monarchs from the House of Tudor who are, after all, known as the Terrible Tudors. It never ceases to amaze me how this one family has influenced English history so much. My religion is the product of a selfish and murderous womaniser called Henry VIII. His dissolution of the monasteries was the biggest criminal act of cultural destruction in our history. A visit to Fountains Abbey would bring tears to your eyes. Mary burnt Protestants and Elizabeth burnt Catholics. The roots of the British Empire lie with Elizabeth. The English Reformation was a bloody affair which resulted in the longstanding persecution of my fellow countrymen just because they looked towards Rome. I may be C of E but I don’t pray or go to Church and I think religion is a crock of ****. And Americans wonder why England is a post Christian society. Bonfire Night is a tradition and nothing more. If we lose this tradition because it’s not PC then what next, Remembrance Day, the Monarchy, Trooping the Colour?

  • Without Faith John what’s the point of tradition? I am a great believer in tradition but without Faith life is literally meaningless. The fact that some people have misused religion is no more an attack on Christianity than the fact that demagogues have misused democracy is an attack on democracy or the fact that some soldiers have committed atrocities is an attack on the legitimate role that the military plays as the guardian of society. In the last century we saw true post-Christian societies in the Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany and the results were horrific. I’ ll stand with Christ and good traditions.

  • http://proecclesia.blogspot.com/2006/02/in-honor-of-father-of-our-country-his.html

    With regard to Donald’s comment … There seems to be ample evidence to believe that George Washington converted.