Andrew Cuomo, Father Barron and Alexis de Tocqueville

Wednesday, January 29, AD 2014

Statue of Bigotry

Hattip to cartoonist Michael Ramirez for his brilliant Statue of Bigotry cartoon.  A guest post by commenter John By Any Other Name:



Father Robert Barron, who no one could credibly call a firebrand, had a post at National Review Online that caught my attention:

“In the course of a radio interview, Governor Andrew Cuomo blithely declared that anyone who is pro-life on the issue of abortion or who is opposed to gay marriage is “not welcome” in his state of New York. Mind you, the governor did not simply say that such people are wrong-headed or misguided; he didn’t say that they should be opposed politically or that good arguments against their position should be mounted; he said they should be actively excluded from civil society!”

The good guv’ner somewhat walked back his comments, trying to spin it that it wasn’t that people who were pro-life, pro-“assault weapons” and “anti-gay” (these were the other two descriptors Cuomo used) weren’t welcome, just that they would have a hard time winning office in the state.  Yet, Father Barron properly captures the evil of this in his observation: “they should be actively excluded from civil society!”
This is precisely what Alexis de Tocqueville was discussing in the below quote.  I stumbled across this one while looking for another quote from Democracy in America.  I confess I haven’t actually read the book, though it’s on my reading list after I finish the Knox translation of the Bible and a few other important books.  Emphasis is mine.

Tyranny in democratic republics does not proceed in the same way, however. It ignores the body and goes straight for the soul. The master no longer says: You will think as I do or die. He says: You are free not to think as I do. You may keep your life, your property, and everything else.  But from this day forth you shall be as a stranger among us. You will retain your civic privileges, but they will be of no use to you. For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that. You will remain among men, but you will forfeit your rights to humanity. When you approach your fellow creatures, they will shun you as one who is impure. And even those who believe in your innocence will abandon you, lest they, too, be shunned in turn. Go in peace, I will not take your life, but the life I leave you with is worse than  death.

Continue reading...

25 Responses to Andrew Cuomo, Father Barron and Alexis de Tocqueville

  • Andy and his father Mario are Catholic – pro-infanticide, pro-sexual perversion Catholics in public! They brag about it! Why aren’t they publicly excommunicated as St. Paul did to the sex pervert in 1st Corinthians chapter 5? Or as Hymenaeus and Alexander were excommunicated in 1st Timothy chapter 1? What is wrong with Cardinal Dolan and Bishop Hubbard? It is one thing to have private sin even sexual, fail but try to do good again. It is another to brag about and extol one’s perversion.

  • Cuomo is a thug who needs to be held responsible.

    NYS is the worst-taxed state in the US, with NJ a close second worst.

    All the libs have are class hate/war, gender, race-baiting, and sexual orientation.

    Your so-called social justice is class war with a thin vaneer of pious-sounding claptrap. (N.B. I stifled myself from typing a more colorful metaphor.)

    First they came for the Jews, and I did nothing . . .

    Do something. That could be desultory, passive resistance or emigration to remnant America.

  • “”You may keep your life, your property, and everything else. But from this day forth you shall be as a stranger among us. You will retain your civic privileges, but they will be of no use to you. For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that. You will remain among men, but you will forfeit your rights to humanity. When you approach your fellow creatures, they will shun you as one who is impure. And even those who believe in your innocence will abandon you, lest they, too, be shunned in turn. Go in peace, I will not take your life, but the life I leave you with is worse than death.””

    This is called white martyrdom. It may be called segregation. It is called taxation without representation. How can Andrew Cuomo represent his constituency, when he refuses to acknowledge their existence and sovereign citizenship, even as they constitute the state?
    Ostracism, also known as exile, and shunning were intended to drive evil from your midst, as called for by Moses and his law. This was mandated to maintain purity, innocence and virginity in the tribes of Israel. Innocence and purity are necessary virtues to deliver Justice. It is the duty of the state to deliver Justice. Therefore, it is the duty of the state to protect and provide for innocence and virginity. Here, Andrew Cuomo drives innocence and virginity away from our midst, making of the people a thoroughly criminal class unable to deliver Justice.
    Andrew Cuomo is an indecent and unjust man who ought to be impeached for not representing his constituency.

  • Paul W Primavera: “Andy and his father Mario are Catholic – pro-infanticide, pro-sexual perversion Catholics in public! They brag about it!”
    Andy and Mario Cuomo are wannabe pro-abortionists, wannabe homosexual sodomists. These are campaigning for the pro-abortion and pro homosexual sodomy vote and disenfranchising, disengaging and discarding their constituents. Pro-abortionists and pro-sodomists have already exiled themselves from the halls of Justice because vice and lust can never be changed into virtue and love. They have self-excommunicated themselves and probably do not receive Holy Communion. It is up to the Catholic parishioners to make sure that they do not.
    This is the end fruit of embracing: “I am personally opposed to abortion but I cannot impose my morality (or lack thereof) on anyone.” Read: “I do not do abortions and I do not commit sodomy but so, I must impose my vacuum on all of my constituents for the abortion and gay vote” Immorality imposed, constituents disavowed, bigotry enacted.

  • These are campaigning for the pro-abortion and pro homosexual sodomy vote and disenfranchising, disengaging and discarding their constituents.

    Well, if they keep winning elections, then it would seem they are not disenfranchising, disengaging and discarding their constituents, or at least not enough of them to lose office. Cesspools like NY, NJ and the Left Coast will remain what they are until those who feel marginalized “vote with their feet.” Although I would think that, politicians being what they are, the average Joe gets shafted while muckety mucks (who you would think would like to avoid such high-tax places) get back room deals to make it worth their while to stay.

  • There are the motives for the left’s long-running campaigns to control education and chuild-rearing (latest is all day pre-school); seize your guns; tax your income; and confiscate/regulate (how you use) your property.

    Gibbon “Decline and Fall . . . “ paraphrased: “An educated, well-informed populous, possessed of arms, tenacious of property, and collected into constitutional assemblies form the only balance capable of preserving a free constitution against enterprises of an aspiring prince (despotism).”

  • T Shaw is correct. Democracy is the despotism of a simple majority ignorant of principle and intent on voting themselves bread and circuses, thus are Democrats like Mario and Andy Cuomo despots. Only in a Republic does T. Shaw’s educated, well-informed populous, possessed of arms, tenacious of property, and collected into constitutional assemblies exist. Today’s populous of Facebook, reality TV and gay sex promoting Grammy Awards is NOT that populous, but rather a people with whom the likes of Caligula would be most at home.

    I hate Democracy – two wolves and one sheep voting on what is for dinner. I love liberty – a well armed, well educated sheep contesting the vote.

    Democracy – the tail side of the coin whose head is Socialism.

    Liberty – freedom – is always contrary to both Democracy (dictatorship by the majority) and autocracy (dictatorship by an autocrat).

    Democracy – 1st Samuel chapter 8 in action.

  • My father had the great misfortune to work for Mario Cuomo, He thought Mario was an egomaniacal gas-bag, who shamelessly unleashed the powers of his office on anyone (and there were several of these people) who Mario did not like. Mario personally saw to the destruction of an industry that employed thousands of people. It was an industry for which New York State was famous. Mario did not like the people running the industry. So he wrecked it, and put thousands of people out of work, and left huge, rusting, unused buildings on the horizon.
    My father said he had exposure to Andrew the evil spawn. Andrew, “man of the people” that he is, yelled and screamed at a parking lot attendant at a NYS facility, for not recognizing the then 20-something lawyer as the “Governor’s son”. My father said Andrew did this in order to impress the senior NYS officials who were with him at the time. My father was not favorably impressed.
    The Cuomo’s are a bunch of filthy, oppressive, elitist scumbags, on both a political and personal level. I moved out of New York State a long time ago. Although I am generally regarded as “the stupid one” of all my parent’s children, the fact that I got out of New York before that greasy, loudmouthed slimeball Andrew took over gives me an automatic win when I am with my siblings. So I am grateful to the Cuomo clan for that, I suppose.
    Andrew Cuomo is certifiably insane. I have no doubt that he is going to take care of himself, and as he goes down the political toilet to dwell with the Eliot Spitzers and Anthony Wieners of this world, we will all simply pray for a second flush, to somewhat alleviate the stink he left behind.

  • Not that I want to pile on . . .

    But, you won’t see this anywhere in the media.

    A. Cuomo was head of US HUD late in the Clinton maladminsitration.

    I don’t know if he has had all the copies burned, but he misspent tax money to publish a big, glossy magazine type publication touting his vast achievements as US Housing Cappo di Cappi (spelling?).

    He controlled FNMA/FHLMC/GNMA/FHA. He dictated that the mortgage agencies (government sponsored entirprises) that 50% of their trillions of $$$ home loan purchases had to be to “low-to-moderate” income borrowers.

    The rest is history.

    A. Cuomo mightily helped inflate the housing bubble, crash, and the great recession.

  • The majority voting idiots of New York State elected the imbecilic Cuomo, just as the elected his father three times.

    I invite the good, observant Catholic New Yorkers and other pro life New Yorkers of any Christian belief to pack up and get the hell out of Cuomo’s empire. Policies enacted by the NYC majority have made the most of the rest of New York State an economic disaster.

    I dread the day when Philadelphia and its suburbs lord it over the rest of Pennsylvania as NYC and its burbs do to the rest of New York State. Ed $pendell was elected twice as Pennsylvania governor with his power base in Southeastern Pennsylvania and God help us if another Filthy-delphian pol takes the Governor’s Mansion.

  • Andrew Cuomo swore an oath to uphold the Constitution on inauguration day. For Andrew Cuomo to turn around and refuse to represent some of his constituents after swearing an oath to represent all of his constituents and after taking in the citizens’ tax money is more than bigotry, it is malfeasance in office, subject to impeachment.

  • Meanwhile, back in the Land of Lincoln, we have someone who appears to be a lakefront Chicago liberal Democrat in GOP clothing — gazillionaire Bruce Rauner — going all out to buy, I mean win, the Republican primary for governor by flooding the airwaves with campaign commercials and raking in huge campaign donations.

    For reasons that would take all day to explain, I really, REALLY don’t trust this guy and if the general election ends up being Rauner vs. incompetent, bumbling Democratic incumbent Pat Quinn, I refuse to vote for either. His signature issue is reining in state employee unions and abolishing (not just reforming, but abolishing) their pensions (which is a serious issue); never mind the fact that he made a substantial chunk of his fortune off of investing… wait for it… state employee pension funds!

    By the way, Rauner contributed LOTS of money to Ed “Spendell” just a few years ago and he’s a close enough buddy of Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel that their families have taken vacations together. Why he’s running as a Republican, I don’t know, unless he’s trying to make sure that the more socially conservative candidates (there are 3 others, at least 2 of whom are pro-life and pro-2nd Amendment) never get past the primary.

  • “we have someone who appears to be a lakefront Chicago liberal Democrat in GOP clothing — gazillionaire Bruce Rauner”

    You said it Elaine! His wife is a big time pro-abort. Each year she contributes $5,000.00 to Personal Pac, the pro-abort lobbying group in our state led by the fanatically anti-Catholic bigot Terry Cosgrove. Rauner’s ads manage to say precisely nothing. He is a perfect example of the one party, the Combine in John Kass’ immortal phrase, that dominate our state and use it as their personal piggy bank.

  • Meanwhile, back in the Land of Lincoln, we have someone who appears to be a lakefront Chicago liberal Democrat in GOP clothing — gazillionaire Bruce Rauner

    One gets the impression that if you all had Carol Mostly Fraud in the governor’s chair you wouldn’t have worse policy but the conduct of public business might be more amusing. Did her fiancee ever turn up or is he still on the lam?

  • Penguin’s Fan: the Mohawk Valley, the Southern Tier, and Western New York have some abiding problems but otherwise the state is in passable condition. Cuomo was returned to office in 1990 because of the state GOP’s self-destructive stupidity, which is an abiding feature of political life in New York. The electorate was so fed up with him by 1994 that they put goodfella George Pataki in office.

    And Cuomo is not an imbecile, the voters are. They could not tolerate David Patterson, who is the only normal human being who has occupied the governor’s chair in the last 30 odd years; he retired in part because his poll numbers were wretched. They’ve spurned a number of class acts over three decades (Jacob Javits, Harry Wilson, and Herbert London to name three) in order to put the likes of Alphonse d’Amato, Charles Schumer, and George Pataki in office.

    As for Cuomo, ‘borderline psychopath’ might come closer to the mark.

  • Believe it or not Art she ran for mayor of Chicago in 2010 coming in fourth. She was evicted from her home in 2012. Mostly Fraud is the living embodiment of contemporary Illinois politics.
    As far as I known Kgosie Matthews is still in the never never realm where so many people who embarrass Democrat pols seem to end up.

  • She was evicted from her home in 2012.

    Well, then, she needs the work.

  • Haven’t we been hearing for years from ‘pro-abortion Catholic politicians’ that they have to represent all of their constituents? Governor Cuomo shows that ‘politically pious dribble’ to be an outright lie

  • In the interests of accuracy, Gov. Cuomo NEVER said that pro-lifers, etc. were “not welcome” or “should be excluded from civil society.” He said, in the context of a discussion of GOP politics in the state of New York, that they “had no place” there, and that “that’s not who New Yorkers are”. These statements are open to different interpretations, the most likely (and the one later confirmed by the governor himself) being that social conservatives “have no place” in the NYGOP because voters won’t vote for them. Which is, as I’ve said before, a sobering enough statement as it is. However, Fr. Barron doesn’t help his credibility by misquoting the guy.

  • (and the one later confirmed by the governor himself)

    Yeah, after he was caught. Cuomo, who is a very nasty piece of work, would put a bounty on the head of pro-lifers if he could.

  • Sorry Elaine, but the logical conclusion of Cuomo’s comments is that pro-lifers are not welcome in New York. Yes, technically the statement was about elected Republicans (or those who hope to be elected Republicans), but if pro-life Republicans are not welcome in the New York state GOP, then logically pro-lifers are without a representative voice, ergo they would be unwelcome in their own state.

  • ‘Tyranny in democratic republics … It ignores the body and goes straight for the soul.’
    Once the souls of ‘Christians’ are overcome, such as that of the lost governor, contagion rages, spreading deadly and insane symptoms of weak and mean character throughout society. The debates over what comprised the so called platform of the D party in the last ‘election’, for example, revealed the weak spot for such as the overcome heads of state to eliminate. Capitulation, apathy, ignorance, and fear keep the diseased overpaid and actively contagious, urging more to sell their souls.

  • Elaine, I submit to you that Fr. Barron wasn’t actually misquoting or taking him out of context. Also, my selection of de Tocqueville’s point about tyranny’s manifestation in a democratic republic is precisely supported by Cuomo’s original statement as well as the “clarification”. Let me line these up (hopefully the HTML works with me…):

    Cuomo: “if they are the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York. Because that is not who New Yorkers are.”

    Cuomo clarification (per the statement excerpt at Politico): “If you read the transcript, it is clear that the Governor was making the observation that an extreme right candidate cannot win statewide because this is a politically moderate state.”

    Father Barron: “he said they should be actively excluded from civil society!”

    de Tocqueville: ” For if you seek the votes of your fellow citizens, they will withhold them, and if you seek only their esteem, they will feign to refuse even that.”

    Personally, I can see how the “clarification” has the veneer of making the statement appear less offensive…but to me, I still hear the hollow ring from the application of public relations spin. Maybe I’m jaded, but that’s why I’m looking to what a host of other more learned folk are saying, including Father Barron.

    First Things chief editor R.R. Reno observed when interviewed by National Catholic Register said this:

    “My predecessor [Father] Richard John Neuhaus has the answer: When orthodoxy is optional, it will eventually be prohibited. Put differently, when moral truths are made optional so as to be ‘inclusive,’ they will eventually be prohibited,” Reno told the Register.
    “Andrew Cuomo’s remarks are telling,” said First Things’ Reno. “Yes, they were off-the-cuff and shouldn’t be taken as thought out or programmatic. But they reflect a sometimes unconscious liberal intolerance. Everybody is welcome — as long as they’re liberals. I see it as a political expression of the ‘dictatorship of relativism.’”

    In that same article by Joan Frawley Desmond, George Weigel weighed in:

    “Father Neuhaus’s observation about optional orthodoxy becoming banned orthodoxy helps a bit in explaining the slippery slope from Mario Cuomo to Andrew Cuomo. But so does a lot of obviously ineffective catechesis and preaching,” Weigel told the Register.

    “Andrew Cuomo has often talked about the portrait of Thomas More in his office. He doesn’t seem to understand that he’s playing Henry VIII (or at the very least, Thomas Cromwell), not More, in the drama of Albany.”

    And Desmond had linked to Michael Gerson at The Washington (com)Post:

    Cuomo has reached an advanced stage of political polarization: regarding one’s democratic opponents as unfit for democracy. I imagine the feeling will now (in some quarters) be returned. And so the spiral continues — sometimes leftward, sometimes rightward, ever downward.

    Then you have Rev. George W. Rutler over at Crisis Magazine comparing and contrasting Cuomo with Pliny the Younger (who persecuted Christians, contra Candida Moss’ “scholarship”):

    “He [Cuomo] did not threaten to throw anyone to wild beasts, but the tone of the governor of the Empire State was decidedly imperious, and the threat of having to move west of Hudson River might be unsettling to even the most devout Catholics.”

    I really think that the crux of the quotes, citations, and such is that Cuomo is exhibiting a social intolerance for certain types of thought. As a test, if you were to substitute, say, racism/slavery as the subject of Cuomo’s rant, I daresay virtually everyone here would be onboard with him. The Ku Klux Klan has effectively been marginalized in civil society, and that’s just and proper. But here, the same exercise is being applied to a significant minority of the state (and that same minority in New York represents various majorities elsewhere in the Union). Further, whereas the positions and views that the KKK can be regarded as objectively and morally wrong, the position and views of those, at the least, on the pro-life side are quite the opposite on the yardstick of merit. The point is that since Cuomo is unanchored from any apparent moral ground as a consequence of moral relativism, he can’t make any distinction between the two. Thus, the only consistent reaction he, like other progressives can take, is the superficial equivalence of treating pro-lifers, pro-Second Amendment types, and traditional marriage supporters.
    So I close with a final observation on James Madison from Gerson’s comments:

    While James Madison would not be surprised, he would not approve. “In all cases where a majority are united by a common interest or passion,” he warned, “the rights of the minority are in danger.” A majority, he argued, can easily become a “faction,” seeking “illicit advantage.” This is dangerous in a democracy, not only because the rights of individuals are important but also because diversity of opinion balances factions against each other. Madison hoped that U.S. leaders would help check the passions of factions rather than inciting them for political advantage, so that “reason, justice and truth can regain their authority over the public mind.”

  • Editing fail:
    Thus, the only consistent reaction he, like other progressives can take, is the superficial equivalence of treating pro-lifers, pro-Second Amendment types, and traditional marriage supporters with legitimately wrong groups that should be excluded from civil society. Let me also add another de Tocqueville quote that I think is relevant here:

    Most religions are only general, simple, and practical means of teaching men the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. That is the greatest benefit that a democratic people derives from its belief, and hence belief is more necessary to such a people than to all others. When, therefore, any religion has struck its roots deep into a democracy, beware lest you disturb them; but rather watch it carefully, as the most precious bequest of aristocratic ages.

    This appears to be the source of the quote “America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great”, frequently mis-attributed to de Tocqueville…which, while he didn’t write that, it still has the ring of truth to it.

  • “”Cuomo: “if they are the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York. Because that is not who New Yorkers are.””
    Cuomo does not get to say who New Yorkers are. That is like telling a woman to get gender reassignment, or a man to get sterilized.

14 Responses to Bishop of Buffalo Responds to Governor Cuomo’s Anti-Life Rant

  • Sadly, the Diocese of Buffalo cannot emigrate to America.

    However, next Fall (election cycle), the Diocese CAN set straight the remnant faithful concerning subverted social justifice which actually aids and abets abortion, artificial contraception, class hate, and racial racketeering (not to mention dependency, gender and sexual orientation/gay privileges); and tell them that it is not okay to vote for the 100% abortion faux-candidate no matter how many lies the Dems tell them.

  • We need Bishops and above Bishop figures to speak of eternal damnation in regard to both abortion and terrorism on microphones of the media. It’s a long journey from John the Baptist’s ” brood of vipers” to Bishop Malone’s softness. It’s a long journey from Christ’s “whited sepulchers” to any Church moment on the microphones. Abortion is infallibly condemned in section 62 of Evangelium Vitae ( Pope with Bishops via worldwide polling) which means it passes canon 749-3…” §3. No doctrine is understood as defined infallibly unless this is manifestly evident.” The immunity of Catholic politicians like Cuomo from some type of Church censure is simply beyond comprehension and helps the abortion side. Since the advent of TV, Church speech is overly polite speech from Bishops upward while Corapi and Fr. Enteneuer at a lower level talked tougher but blew it in the long run. But the tough eternal talk should come from the hierarchy anyway not from the lower priest level where it can be promotional of egos or products like audio tapes.

  • At least the Bishop did something.

  • . “Extreme conservative” Our labels are failing us . How conservative are you? Can you be a little bit conservative?

  • I am glad the bishop spoke up. As T Shaw and Bill Bannon say, more can be said. To strengthen the Remnant Faithful and to boldly go against the opposition it would be great to have bishops speak in a concerted effort.. Not just a one time joint statement, but strong rapid fire attention getting efforts to not only teach, but also Defend the Faith Op eds public speeches internet tonight show. Whatever.

  • “In an age of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.’ George Orwell

  • Religion may be nothing more than consoling a recent widow and orphan, expressing compassion, or feeding the hungry, practicing the virtue of Charity or saving a life. Any law may be broken to save a life. The unborn are alive. Even after abortion, their life may be saved. Cuomo is not obsessed with saving life. The prevaricateurs (French spelling) in Albany do not have a broom handle to fly on. They need to fly to Washington where the really big broom handle flyers gather.
    Instead of sweeping the floor, the broom handle flyers think that they are above us, flying over Washington, D.C. and the nation, as they do. I remember when Mussolini and his wife were dragged through the streets by their feet, hung upside down in the public square and beaten with sticks, just like partial birth abortion. They were already dead. Mussolini and his wife did not need a pain threshold, did not have their head punctured with scissors and their brains sucked out. But then again, Mussolini and his wife were not innocent of the bloodguilt of treason and genocide. History repeats itself.

    Roe versus Wade emasculates every man, denying a man’s constitutionally begotten posterity. Roe v. Wade is unconstitutional in that Roe versus Wade makes every man’s genes and his seed of life a ward of the court and finding against them. Roe versus Wade vacated man’s possession of his own offspring. Cuomo and Obama included.
    Cuomo and Obama make every man’s citizenship predicated on his willingness to accept legal castration.
    Obamacare is the medium through which legal castration is applied.

  • Sadly, the Diocese of Buffalo cannot emigrate to America.
    However, next Fall (election cycle)…

    Next fall? The 2014 election cycle is already underway. In some jurisdictions–(California, for example–opening dates for some petitions have already passed and deadlines to file for candidacy are less than a month away. Virtually everybody whose name you’ll see on your November ballot has already begun building a campaign, marshalling activists, and soliciting funds.

    Those who believe the fall of an election year is time for our bishops to perk up and get active teaching what is required of us as citizen voters are mistaken. By then, partisan allegiances are activated, the hearts of partisans–like Pharaoh’s–are hardened, and the temptation to dismiss the Word of God as another partisan play is strong upon them. Bishops and priests who are silent for 22 of every 24 month election cycle are leading some brethren into temptation.

    From my personal experiences in the heat of politics I believe, rather, that our bishops would most effectively evangelize from the pulpit during the quiet periods before campaigning heats up and becomes very noisily public. It’s much easier to be heard when campaigns are not shouting. Also when the noisy climactic two months of the years-long campaign cycle arrives, our Church’s teachings are much harder to dismiss when bishops can point out that they have been saying these truths all along, long before they became a focus of any partisan struggle.

    Finally, a word to those who don’t like politicking but wish to be a positive influence on Election Day. In the quiet months ahead of Election Day, invite the unchurched to Jesus and call home those who have been away. My personal belief is that even if those you meet can’t yet come in to the fullness of the Christian faith, even if they remain separated brethren, you have done a spiritual work of mercy by nudging them closer to Jesus and His Body. The more someone is within the Body of Christ, the more likely that person will be a voter and a better voter.

  • With all due respect, I get the idea from the video that as long as NY does not become the abortion Capitol of the country that the Bishop will be satisfied. Politics 101 is that you pick your message, put in one or 2 sentences in a form that gives u the moral high ground, & repeat it as often & as loudly as possible in order to get it thru to the people u want to reach (thru media bias, hype, spin, agenda, etc). I don’t see that happening in the American church. Now –granted, Bushops were not trained to be politicians.


  • Pingback: Message to New Yorkers: If the Governor Kicks You Out, You’re Welcome in Oklahoma
  • Rudy Giuliani is pro-choice and Republican, he is the kind of Catholic welcomed in New York. He is not an extreme Catholic. He is moderate about his faith. IMO being a pro-choice Catholic is no Catholic at all. I imagine Giuliani will eventually come to a point where push comes to shove and there is just some line he is not willing to cross for politics. I don’t mean to talk about him personally, I know little about him, but just to suggest that some of the the problem lies within the Church, not from the ogres outside, but the division and decline within our ranks.
    The bishops would have a lot of excommunication to do on both sides of the aisle. Doesn’t it seem a great part of the responsibility for the continuing dominance of pro choice Catholic politicians lies with the Catholics who vote for them.

    Ex-communication is self chosen by many of these people who don’t communicate on a regular weekly basis. ( I know there are exceptions to that)

  • Fisking myself here: “moderate about his faith “
    I have no idea about his Feelings about his faith, or how he and other pro-choice Catholics explain all this to themselves. There is no scale of gray about the being Catholic. You either are Catholic, accepting what the Church teaches and trying to live by it or not. If you reject the Authority of the Church on the non-negotiables and if you are a politician, you may be moderate in your politics, but you are not a moderate Catholic. A Catholic is Catholic.

Cuomo to Pro-lifers: Get Out of New York

Saturday, January 18, AD 2014

Andrew Cuomo

Andrew Cuomo, the “Catholic” shacked up, pro-abort Governor of New York, doesn’t believe that pro-lifers have any place in the state of New York.  Mary Katharine Ham at Hot Air gives us the details:


Forty-eight percent of Americans and all priests and nuns are no longer welcome in the Empire State, according to its governor. Delivering a monologue on Republicans with all the hyperbole of an MSNBC anchor and none of the charm, Cuomo offered this:

You have a schism within the Republican Party. … They’re searching to define their soul, that’s what’s going on. Is the Republican party in this state a moderate party or is it an extreme conservative party? That’s what they’re trying to figure out. It’s a mirror of what’s going on in Washington. The gridlock in Washington is less about Democrats and Republicans. It’s more about extreme Republicans versus moderate Republicans.

… You’re seeing that play out in New York. … The Republican Party candidates are running against the SAFE Act — it was voted for by moderate Republicans who run the Senate! Their problem is not me and the Democrats; their problem is themselves. Who are they? Are they these extreme conservatives who are right-to-life, pro-assault-weapon, anti-gay? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and they’re the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.

    If they’re moderate Republicans like in the Senate right now, who control the Senate — moderate Republicans have a place in their state. George Pataki was governor of this state as a moderate Republican; but not what you’re hearing from them on the far right.”

He at least uses the liberal pejoratives for those who are pro-2nd Amendment and oppose gay marriage. “Right to life” he uses as if it’s offensive on its face. As Life News notes, he leans heavily on the President Barack tactic to simply declare everyone who disagrees with your positions in the slightest “extreme,” even if many of those people are your constituents. But how extreme is the pro-life position, even in a blue state like New York? Unlike, say, gay marriage, the polling on abortion restrictions, particularly second and third trimesters, regularly and overwhelmingly favors the more conservative position.

Continue reading...

53 Responses to Cuomo to Pro-lifers: Get Out of New York

  • “…President of Notre Dame, Father Theodore Hesburgh, a man who had privately condemned pro-lifers as ‘mindless zealots’…”

    “…and all priests and nuns…”

    Well, perhaps most priests and nuns.

  • It’s possible, based on the context of the quote (an inside baseball discussion of New York party politics) that what Cuomo meant was that pro-lifers “have no place” in Republican party politics in his state, because the voters won’t accept them (“that’s not who New Yorkers are”). He may not have literally meant “All persons who hold pro-life convictions are no longer welcome in my state and should move out.” Of course, even the first interpretation is distressing enough, and chances are that Cuomo wouldn’t mind a bit if all those “extremist” pro-lifers left the state anyway. They probably ARE already leaving, given recent population losses.

  • Elaine: What will Andrew say to the devil, when the devil comes to claim his bride? Ignorance? What will Andrew say when God says: “Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.” I am personally opposed, but I cannot impose your morality”?
    Human sacrifice, the destruction of an individual substance of a rational nature, St. Thomas Aquinas’ definition of the person, is the primary form of devil worship. Hitler did it, Stalin did it, Roe v. Wade is doing it. If Andrew Cuomo can prove that he is not an individual substance of a rational nature, he may be exhonorated.
    The human body who the rational soul is forming may not be destroyed for the sins, crimes and immorality of his parents or anyone else’s crimes, for this is the ultimate in the destruction of Justice and with the destruction of Justice is the destruction of the state, starting with Cuomo.

  • I don’t think if it matters if he actually really meant pack up your vans and SUVs and get out of state. He made it clear that they just would not be in lured in politics or discussions. Shunning.
    I encourage everyone to click on the Hesburgh link provided in the text . It leads you to an awesome pastoral review article. First rate.

  • I don’t know what Cuomo will have to say at the time of his final judgment, thought I personally would rather not be in that position.

    However, I CAN think of something that other governors, particularly NJ Gov. Chris Christie, could say in response: “Anyone who wants to live in, visit or start a business in my state is welcome regardless of their political leanings or their views regarding abortion, gun control, same-sex marriage or any other issue. Those who disagree with our current law regarding these matters are welcome to try to change them through the political process just like anyone else. The ultimate decision is up to the voters.”

  • That odd “lured” word was meant to be “included”. That kind of thing sometimes happens when I text – the iPhone Spell Guesser! 😉

  • Elaine: What Cuomo said was that he was not going to represent his constituency because of their beliefs. Taxation without representation…religious discrimination, abdication of office, imposition of de facto tyranny.

  • Sorry, Anzlyne, you and Elaine are two stalwarts of the truth and common sense and I love you both.
    Hesburg has been bougth and sold into the population control mob irregardless of the humanity of the child, disregarding that the innocence of the newly conceived is the standard of Justice for the state. Hesburg has erased Justice for the state.

  • Godless, iniquitous, idolatrous liberal progressive Democrat. But I repeat myself.

    PS, Andy who is trying to sjutdown the Indian Point nuclear power plants is as anti-nuclear power as his father Mario who shutdown the multibillion dollar Shoreham nuclear power plant on Long Island right after it was built.

    Democrats strangle energy supplies and health care access just as they strangle the necks of unborn babies. It took a Civil War to free the slaves. What do we think Cuomo is aching for now? God have mercy!

  • Thanks Mary! You, I, and the Homiletic Pastoral Review article (that is the link mentioned)- all agree about Father Hesburgh

  • Pingback: Rabbi Skorka, Pope Francis: Moving To Peace -
  • When 7000 screaming pagans attacked a Cathedral near the Popes home town of Buenos Aries he never made a peep and if he doesn’t excommunicate this pompous so n’ so and a few others of his kind then I have to wonder what his agenda really is. I joined the Church after several years as a Protestant because Pope John Paul II was the only Christian leader showing some spine (plus I believe in the Doctrine of the Church). Christ cleared the Temple of not just the money changers but of those practicing pagan Roman rituals. John the XXIII excomunicated Castro; Beckett and Thomas More stood up to Kings. We don’t need a “buddy to the world” as Pope what we need is maybe a Dagger John.

  • So extreme conservatives do it!
    Take him for his word. Get out. Shake the dust off your loafers as you leave and by All means…Don’t Look Back!

    Mindless zealots like Christopher Bell and his great string of Good Counsel Homes for young mothers in New Jersey and New York. His pro-life mindlessness has saved souls. But if they, the extremist, leave woe to the young mothers that found refuge in the great state of New York.

  • Amen Trubuchet: “screaming pagans attacked a Cathedral near the Popes home town of Buenos Aries he never made a peep – “

  • Cuomo’s statements also reflect the schism within the Catholic Church.
    The deranged, fanatical, extremist pro-life, traditional Catholics, who hate
    gays, oppose the normal, tolerant, open-minded, generous and loving
    Catholics, who support modern moral attitudes and who understand the
    importance of bringing the Church into the modern world.

  • “Cuomo’s statements also reflect the schism within the Catholic Church. The deranged, fanatical, extremist pro-life, traditional Catholics, who hate gays, oppose the normal, tolerant, open-minded, generous and loving Catholics, who support modern moral attitudes and who understand the importance of bringing the Church into the modern world.”

    God’s law does not change. Human sacrifice of innocent souls, un-natural marriage, embrace of heresy, rejection of our God-given free will and unalienable human rights, will not bring anything good into the modern culture. Even the Supreme Court requires the Truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Injecting fallacy, half truths and perjury into the Supreme Court is akin to treason and against the Justice of the Constitution.

  • I’ve never been to that state except to drive through it, but I’ll make a point of buying nothing, except if necessary gas, if Cuomo insists.

  • Franco.
    “the modern world.”

    Christ overcame the world and He doesn’t change. The WORD made flesh so we have union….communion.
    One God.

    Open to truth. Open to fashions of a modern world….never my friend. Never.

    I love my homosexual brothers and prove it by gently inserting the WORD of God into their hearts. It’s what Jesus did. Sin no more and live an abundant life. Let the love you mention be Christian love which is eternal.
    Then the tolerant one who knows each heart can rejoice at the bounty of souls that heard the WORD and acted accordingly. Glory be to God in the Highest and Peace to His people on Earth.

  • Response to Franco:

    “Cuomo’s statements also reflect the schism within the Catholic Church.”

    100% correct. This is a fight between apostates and heretics, and those loyal to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, to 2000 years of Sacred Tradition and to Sacred Scripture.

    “The deranged, fanatical, extremist pro-life, traditional Catholics…”

    The prophet Jeremiah was so deranged, fanatical and extremely pro-life that he wrote in chapter 19, verses 4 through 6, “Because the people have forsaken me, and have profaned this place by burning incense in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, and have built the high places of Ba′al to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Ba′al, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind; therefore, behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when this place shall no more be called To′pheth, or the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of Slaughter.”

    “… who hate gays…”

    Real Christians do not hate gays. In fact, we all have our sexual problems and failures. We would not be human if we didn’t. But a real Christian will hate the sanctification of sodomy as marriage. He will hate sexual perversion paraded as normal, and he will hate it as much in himself as in anyone else. He will hate turning God’s gift of sexual pleasure into an addiction no different than that of heroin or cocaine.

    “…oppose the normal, tolerant, open-minded, generous and loving Catholics…”

    Being a normal Christian means giving one’s life for the Gospel of Conversion and Righteousness. No one was more intolerant than Jesus when He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers, and when He whipped the money changers out of the Temple. It is one thing to be tolerant and accepting of different people. It is entirely different to be tolerant of principles and beliefs that are inherently immoral and evil, which send people to burn forever in hell. Generosity is exemplified in Jesus, the Apostles and the early Church Fathers who gave their lives for the Faith, so that people would be saved from the eternal fires of damnation.

    “…who support modern moral attitudes and who understand the importance of bringing the Church into the modern world…”

    There is no substantive difference between the infanticide and sodomy of the modern world, and that of ancient Rome where babies were left to die on hilltops and where old men preyed on young boys. The modern world is a reversion to the godless paganism of antiquity, something to which Andy Cuomo, his father Mario and the rest of the liberal progressive Democrats wish the world to return. It is the Church Who opposes this, and stands in their way, which is why they hate the Church. And it is Jesus Christ who will finally defeat this and send it to eternal hell where it belongs. From Revelation 19:11-21:

    Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself. He is clad in a robe dipped in[c] blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed him on white horses. From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.

    Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone. And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.


    Buckle up. God is love and He loves souls so much that He will do whatever is necessary to save the lives of innocent babies and rescue souls from the everlasting inferno of the punishment due sin, even if that means allowing Civil War once again. May He have mercy!

  • “Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant and then it seeks to silence the good.” Archbishop Chaput.

    Whether the Archbishop intended it or not, never was there a better description of the platform of the Democratic Party, or President Obama, or Governor Cuomo.

  • Paul.

    It’s so one sided by the libs.

    Jesus is forgiving and has tolerated so much already, I wonder when his Justice will prevail? I pray that I’m ready when the curtain comes down.

  • Correct, Philip: “Jesus is forgiving and has tolerated so much already, I wonder when his Justice will prevail? I pray that I’m ready when the curtain comes down.”

    I have a great many faults. That is why I do not want to condemn a gay person or an addict or anyone else struggling with his sins, for I struggle with my own, and I am darn certain that I know what I deserve – hell. Thank God I am not there.

    But there is a difference in the case of a leader like Cuomo who parades intrinsic evil as a human right, and condemns conservative Christians for who are trying to live a right life and support what is right.

    This idea that I hate gays because I oppose gay marriage, or I condemn women because they for whatever reason had an abortion is completely wrong. I can hate gay marriage and abortion but still love the gay person and the woman who had an abortion. Yet there is a great deal of contempt and disgust in my heart for politicians and religious leaders who advocate gay marriage and abortion as human rights.

    I do not condemn the gay person or the woman who had the abortion. But I despise the politicians and religious leaders who grease the skids to hell. How the heck does that make me intolerant – that I oppose the pagan hedonism of antiquity? There is nothing modern or unique or novel about this. It is all the same old sickening perversion and bloody murder which afflicted ancient Greece and Rome alike. Today’s liberal progressive Democrats are children of the ruthless pagan murderers of AD 100 who sent Christians to be fed to the lions, and Cuomo’s invective proves it.

    God help me that I do not go to hell for my sins. Nor do I want anyone else to go to hell for theirs. That is why Jesus died on the Cross. Yes, I am intolerant. Maybe I should die that way.


  • Negative Paul. You should die with the faith of our Holy Martyrs. A faith that reads All Your’s my beloved Father. I struggle with this era of paganism as well, and am humbled by the faith you and other contributors share on this site.

    You are a good and faithful servant and your justifiable angst is fitting to this age.

  • He’s an extreme liberal – of course he’s going to bash the side of the opposition that presents the strongest impediment to the Peoples’ Democratic fascist rule. He loves wishy-washy, spineless, no-principle, “moderate” Republicans because he knows the Democrats always slaughter them.
    He is the epitomal slimy politician, and an anti-Liberty fascist at that. But we see through you, Mr. Cuomo. Unlike the administration of your party’s current Grand High Instigator, you are transparent.

  • Please take 5 minutes to view this moving video; my generation will end abortion.

    I just found it.
    It is worth the it.

    Thank you and God bless You for your prayers and sacrifices to end legalized abortions in our Nation and around the world.

  • Opps…sorry.
    Its worth it.

  • Philip,

    I was being a bit sarcastic. Of course, traditional Catholics do not hate gays,
    which would be a grave sin. Nor, do I believe traditional Catholics are
    deranged. Unfortunately, traditional Catholics, who are good Catholics,
    are portrayed as cruel, intolerant, etc.

  • I surely wish someone had told my great great grandmother Catherine that she was not welcome in New York, when she came here from the Rhineland, with her children, in 1858.

    Perhaps the French should take back that statue in the harbor since some of us, the politically incorrect ones, are not welcomed here.

  • hey that’s interesting Karl! I have ancestors that were New Yorkers too – in the 17 and 1800’s. Anyway that reminded me that we could claim identity with New Yorkers who are pro-life, pro marriage etc. and say with a resounding voice “I am a New Yorker!” like JFK ” I am a Berliner” only 20 years after the war… I am a New Yorker and I am Pro Life! Solidarity with them.

    About the extreme label: notice that we Catholic pro-lifers have stayed the same and the whole general scale has moved to the left.

  • “Someone plagiarized.”

    It isn’t plagiarism Jordan when the post directly sources the cited material, which is precisely what I did.

  • Franco.

    Thank you. I understand where your coming from. I apologize for the mis-read. 🙂

  • Philip.

    It’s my fault. Sorry.

  • My apologies to Franco, also. Sarcasm is difficult to convey electronically.

  • Franco: If it is sarcasm please put it in parentheses. I too, thought that you were serious.

  • NY Pro-lifers to Cuomo: (censored via custody of the tongue). Rural areas seethe with pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, anti-redefinition-of-marriage sentiment, and the fact that we’re in no hurry to change really disturbs our urban betters. Funny that. Our votes are a drop in the bucket, why not just laugh at us? Oh right, I forgot. The Tolerant Left will brook no dissent.
    Red states out there, if you wish to keep your freedoms, keep your cities in check.

  • I had intended to write something about Cuomo’s concubinage with Sandra Lee. Being a human being having failed at sexual purity myself, I find it hard to condemn a man for loving a woman while he is divorced. That does not mean that I condone or excuse the less than ideal behavior in someone else or myself. It is objectively wrong. What it means is that I can understand the behavior without condoning or excusing it. I am reminded of that phrase, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” I doubt any of us commenting here are sexually pure. Indeed, even Kings David and Solomon had their legions of concubines. That said, a leader like Cuomo nevertheless has a responsibility to put forth a good example. He should keep his concubinage private if he cannot keep from loving his concubine (I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he does love her). But what is truly reprehensible about Cuomo isn’t him doing what David and Solomon did before him, but his open adulation of the infanticide of the unborn, and the sanctification of same sex relations as marriage. He claims to be Catholic and he deliberately opposes Church teaching in the most public ways. Then he flaunts his concubinage in the public’s face. I truly don’t care what he does in private, or what two gay people do in private. But please keep it private. I personally reserve disclosure of my sins for the Confessional without which I would surely go to hell.

  • Pingback: The Medjugorje Report -
  • I’m still waiting for Cardinal Dolan to “talk turkey” with Cuomo.

    I thought Mario Cuomo was overbearing. This Cuomo is obnoxious. New York City elected the obnoxious DeBlasio and New york State (largely NYC and its suburbs) elected Cuomo the Younger.

    I wouldn’t live in New York if my life depended on it. In Pennsylvania, we have the Democrats trying to use Philadelphia City and its suburbs to turn Pennsylvania into another New York State. Democrats are organized crime.

  • Update: The governor’s office has issued a clarification statement:

    “the Governor was making the observation that an extreme right candidate cannot win statewide because this is a politically moderate state (either moderate Republican or moderate Democratic).

  • Here’s the link to the full statement:

    My post above got cut off so here is the complete quote I meant to use:

    “The New York Post distorted Governor Cuomo’s words yesterday, saying that the Governor said “conservatives should leave New York.” The Governor did not say that, nor does he believe that.

    “If you read the transcript (below), it is clear that the Governor was making the observation that an extreme right candidate cannot win statewide because this is a politically moderate state (either moderate Republican or moderate Democratic).

    “In the same response, the Governor went on to say “it is fine” to be anti-gun control, and anti-choice” – as he respects both positions.”

    Note, however, the intentional use of the loaded terms “anti-choice” to describe pro-lifers and “anti-gun control” to describe those favoring the personal right to bear arms.

    I also note that the exact same argument about “extreme right” pro-life, etc. candidates being unelectable to statewide office is often made regarding Illinois politics; I would presume it’s also applicable to California and other “blue” states dominated by one or more major metropolitan areas that always outvote the rural/small/medium size cities.

  • Guilty on all counts.

    This is (just about) the one-year anniversary when Cuomo and his band of brigands (legislature) made me (for my so-called assault weapons) a New York State felon.

    I plan to emigrate to America as soon as practicable.

  • The so-called governor is inciting civil unrest with his remarks. Paul Primavera used the phrase, Civil War, in a few posts this week and I found that difficult to digest. After listening to Cuomo’s “who are they?”.. I’m beginning to think that a Civil War could come. Could!
    More public servants like Cujo and who knows?

  • Thank you Elaine.
    I did just read your helpful link.
    Distorted by NY Post.

    I had the Catholic station on last night driving home and they we’re playing a short clip of this remark. They were not playing the full speach..distorted reporting as well. 🙁

  • If liberal elites (the ‘new ‘ aristocracy) have “context”, it’s 24/7/365 abortion, class envy/war, dependency (free lunch), gay marriage, gender, and race baiting. To them, any disagreement is pure evil.

    Sinverguenza Cuomo isn’t going to run out of “other people’s money.” First, he’s going to run out of the other people.

  • Anti-Right to Life, anti 2nd Amendment, anti natural marriage.

  • Suz, you make an essential point with “Red states out there, if you wish to keep your freedoms, keep your cities in check.” A glance at the red and blue areas on election maps reveals how much our politics is divided on a rural versus urban basis. New York City is the tail that wags the New York State dog. Cuomo is the bark.

  • The democrat deck (playing card analogy) has seven cards: abortion, class war, gender victimology, race baiting and sexual orientation.

    And, never forget, Bull Connor was a member of the Democrat National Committee, and the IRS did to MLK, Jr. what it is doing to hated right-wingers, today.

  • The last time I heard, Gov. Cuomo wasn’t appointed to be the Empire State’s “dictator for life,” and the people there enjoy the right to toss him out of office the next time he runs, or make his term unbearable by voting in a veto proof legislature, to name a few “checks” for starters. Let’s say for the sake of argument, what if he kept on running for reelection for the next twenty or so years and his party kept on making sure the likelihood of any veto-proof legislature was high as Iceland putting a man on the moon? One might want to pick up stakes and leave then, but guess what, Cuomo’s not going to prevent you from moving out of state, nor is he going to slap any state emigration tax for moving elsewhere, etc. You’re just as free then to go as you are now not to vote for him, or better yet, get more people just as ticked as you are … and keep their motivation spirits up for the duration of any drive and campaign to replace him with at least a more pro-life candidate. If pro-abortion supporters can keep their spirits up long enough to bedevil the our side, it’s useless to whine and commisserate over the usual fates of many one-issue pro-life candidates.
    Many voters would probably love to have more children, but how are they going to support them if the so-called “pro-life” candidates keep on with their one-issue fare while doing little or nothing to offer voters more reasons to see how more widely and credibly pro-life their agenda is. These topics can range from the most elemental, but crucial to each individual voter; from the quality of local schools, (including the bricks n’ mortar part), public transportation, law enforcement/fire control, snow removal, to parks and recreation. And of course, if your local hospital is publicly owned, the overall quality of care and life offered for all patients of all ages and backgrounds. How does your community take care of its elderly, poor … you name it, there’s a lot more to saying one is “prolife” than simply keeping tabs on who votes which way on pro-life related legislation or what Cuomo, or any other governor’s position is. They can only govern by the consent of the governed, and even the bosses in the back room know this, and or need reminding now n’ then. That’s the citizens’ job to do: not whine over some lines out of Albany, Boston, Trenton or Augusta.

  • RINGMASTER: Right this way, Doctor.

    DOCTOR: Thank you very much, but where’s Ace? I don’t think she

    RINGMASTER: Oh, she’ll be coming.

    CAPTAIN [OC]: Iniphitus, where the Galvanic Catastrophods are not what they were.

    (The Doctor looks through to where the Captain is drinking tea and talking at a bored Nord while Mags is staring at nothing.)

    CAPTAIN: No, but they’re still worth a look if you’re doing a tour of the southern nebula and have an eon or two to spare. You. Well, well.

    DOCTOR: Captain Cook, I presume. So you had arrived after all.

    CAPTAIN: But of course. Come and join us, Doctor. It’s one big happy family here, eh, Nord?

    NORD: Except when you’re gassing on.

  • Steven, speaking of harping on the same issue, your insistence on turning every thread into a discussion of something not on topic is quite a bore. Bye bye.

  • Pingback: Bishop of Buffalo Responds to Governor Cuomo’s Anti-Life Rant | The American Catholic

This is Why We Have a Constitution, and Why the Alternative is Tyranny

Wednesday, January 16, AD 2013

New York’s Trespass Act of 1783  offered relief for Patriots who had fled New York City during the time of the Revolutionary “by permitting them to recover damages from persons who had occupied or used their premises during the war.” Common law had typically required  “that actions for trespass must be tried where the property was located, but the act allowed Patriots to sue in any court where the defendant could be found.” It also denied the laws of war by prohibiting the accused of arguing that they had been acting “under orders of the occupying British army, and the act also prohibited the defendants from appealing to a higher court.” (Citations from Forrest McDonald, Novus Ordo Seclorum.)

The New York Trespass Act was but one of many factors that led to the creation of the written United States Constitution. Under the Articles of Confederation government, the states had almost unlimited authority to pass any laws they pleased. The only check on the state governments were the citizens of the several states. Unfortunately, the people themselves were often the impetus behind the enactment of unjust laws.

The Constitution was a reaction to life under the Articles of Confederation. Though conservatives like to point out that the government created under the Constitution is one of limited powers – a fact which is undeniably true – the Constitution actually enhanced the powers of the federal government and was meant, in part, to curb some of the excesses of unlimited state authority.
In truth the Constitution was a perfect balancing act. The Federalists hoped to strengthen the federal government while simultaneously placing significant limits on the powers of said government. They wanted to mitigate the excesses of democratic government in the states while continuing to leave most of the day-to-day governing authority in the hands of local government. The Constitution is a document designed to prevent the outbreak of democratic despotism, but which also aimed at limiting the reach of government. These are not contradictory aims. As much as it may surprise political philosophers such as Piers Morgan to hear, purely democratic governments can become tyrannical – ask Plato and Aristotle about that.
If we understand the genesis of our Constitution then we can better understand why we revere it and strive to live as much as we can by the letter of said Constitution. It’s not because it’s some old, musty document and we just have a blind devotion to old things. There was a wisdom and a theory behind the Constitution that made as much sense in 1787 as it does in 2013.
And now, due to the gun control debate, we have proof of why the Federalists were right, and why we are inching closer to tyranny.
Continue reading...

27 Responses to This is Why We Have a Constitution, and Why the Alternative is Tyranny

  • Excellentem progymnasmam scripsis, Paule. Tibi gratias!

  • “Reasonable” has become, for me, an hated word.

    It is the word used to characterize every proposal one favors and to describe my comming around to the thinking of others. And so, reducing abortions while keeping the practice legal is a “reasonable” position and taking money from the “wealthy” to buy frivolous things for others is “reasonable.” if one holds to a view that a practice is inherently wrong, one is “unreasonable,” an “extremist.”

    So it is with the firearms debate. Requiring citizens to register their firearms is simply “reasonable” we are told. To oppose this is “unreasonable” and fears of tyranny and Constitutional Rights, are viewed as unreasonable fears. So too with concerns about unilateral executive action. Since the legislature isn’t doing what the public clamors for quickly enough, it is “reasonable” for the President to act without authority to cater to the whim of the majority.

    I fear, old friend, that you are right. Having forgotten lessons so painfully learned over 2000 years of Western history that liberty is hard won and easily and incrementally lost, we are wresting power from all authorities to resist tyranny.

  • Kipling said it well:

    “Ancient Right unnoticed as the breath we draw– Leave to live by no man’s leave, underneath the Law–

    Lance and torch and tumult, steel and grey-goose wing, Wrenched it, inch and ell and all, slowly from the King.

    Till our fathers ‘stablished, after bloody years, How our King is one with us, first among his peers.

    So they bought us freedom–not at little cost– Wherefore must we watch the King, lest our gain be lost.”

    The fight for freedom is never finally won or lost, but must be fought for again when dangers to it arise.

  • Jan.16th Religious Freedom Day! What a great President! We cares about us so much and our Constitution that he proclaimed the 16th of Jan. to forever be Religious Freedom Day.

    LIAR! I find it hard to share Christian love with tyrants.

  • Kiplig,

    “Freedom for ourselves
    And, Freedom for our sons.
    And failing freedom – War!”

  • In truth the Constitution was a perfect balancing act.

    No. It is a balancing act.

    If we understand the genesis of our Constitution then we can better understand why we revere it and strive to live as much as we can by the letter of said Constitution. It’s not because it’s some old, musty document and we just have a blind devotion to old things. There was a wisdom and a theory behind the Constitution that made as much sense in 1787 as it does in 2013.

    Ach. It is an organic law, not a piece of canonical literature. The utility or disutility of a set of institutional arrangements is going to be quite sensitive to local circumstances. ‘Local’ can be understood spatially or temporally. Our constitution has been (for the most part) a failure in containing the sturm und drang of our political life for more than 80 years. Some serious adjustments are in order (though adjustments in institutional arrangements cannot in any direct and transparent way correct the toxic culture of the legal profession or official Washington).

  • Our constitution has been (for the most part) a failure in containing the sturm und drang of our political life for more than 80 years. S

    Precisely because a certain subset of our political class has ignored it. That is not a failure of the Constitution, but of both leadership and citizenship.

  • Additionally, I shudder to think what the country would now look like without the Constitution. Imagine Obama issuing an executive order banning “dangerous and unnecessary” firearms, or one banning “seditious speech”. No, the Constitution is not merely an organic law but the concrete manifestation of the dream of the Founding Fathers of a Federal Union that would preserve the liberty that they fought for in the Revolution. In my eyes it is as “sacred” as any piece of secular writing can be composed by fallible men.

  • Pingback: THURSDAY GOD & CAESAR EDITION | Big Pulpit
  • In the hands of the current crop of supreme court justices, the constitution has become a blank piece of paper on which 5 of 9 justices get to write anything they chose. Remember that it was just a few years ago that five justices decided that the second amendment was an actually individual right (DC vs Heller). If Kennedy had woken up that day and decided to play the liberal justice instead of the conservative one, we would effectively not have a second amendment and all this talk of gun rights would be irrelevant.
    Think about that for a moment; the vote of one man has decided whether or not you have a basic freedom. I shudder when I think of what this nation has become.
    The great experiment of the federalists has failed. The fears of the anti-federalists that a large central government would become a tyranny have materialized.

  • “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

    Abraham Lincoln

  • Precisely because a certain subset of our political class has ignored it. That is not a failure of the Constitution, but of both leadership and citizenship.

    Oh yes it is a failure of our Constitution. Paul, Israel has functioned for more than 90 years with a body of constitutional law but not discrete charter with entrenched clauses and supermajority requirements. If your political elite is satisfactory, you can get along without a charter. The point of a charter is that it contains the discretion of elected officials and others invested with authority, and erects a mechanism which can function passably in spite of a rancid political culture. Ours doesn’t.

    There are certain architectural features of our constitution which have been respected (as Robert Bork put it, “the stuff about elections every two years”), but the enumerated and limited delegations of discretion to Congress, the distinction between executive and legislative action, and the autonomy of provincial authorities have all been trashed. In addition, the immunities of particular communities and of households against federal or state authorities have been subject to judicial whimsies.

    In the years immediately after 1929, there developed immense social pressure due to the economic crisis which was not properly contained by the existing political architecture. The pressure simply blew the existing structure down. What replaced it was a de facto constitution running on stare decisis and judicial misfeasance. A secondary shock was delivered during the years running from 1953 to 1971. The Constitution you are referring to really does not exist anymore. It is going to require some sort of national reformation to restore it even in part.

    Added to all that is a phenomenon you see all over the western world: the efflorescence of a self-aggrandizing, pretentious, and antinomian culture among the professional-managerial class. This is most destructive as it develops in the bar. Students of Israel’s appellate judiciary contend that this body would clearly like to pull an Earl Warren but are constrained by the plenary discretion of the Knesset; what happened to Canadian jurisprudence after the enactment of the Trudeaupian Charter of Rights is well known. So, institutions matter, to a degree.

    Our institutions prevented a set of principled and adaptive changes to the political economy in 1933-39 and did so again in 1954-71. Instead, we had open-ended aggrandizement of the central government. Those institutions continue to prevent effective remedial action against an appellate judiciary for whom misbehavior is the order of the day. They also prevent us from containing the erection and maintenance of a permanent Washington political class (remember what happened to U.S. Term Limits?). We also have an incredible problem of collective action with regard to public sector borrowing. It is hard to imagine a set of institutions less equipped to address that problem than the ones we have.

    There is not much point in turning James Madison into the fictional Hari Seldon. The political culture stinks, but it does not stink so bad that our state legislators, working within political institutions which have some salient differences with federal institutions, cannot pass budgets. Madison and his contemporaries were making do in the matrix in which they were working and their handiwork sufficed in certain circumstances. However, the machine is broke and it is time to stop pretending and fix it.

  • Civil war scares me. However blatant lies from our Govt. leaders ( so-called ) and the abuses of our rights leaves one to wonder. What next?

    Maybe obama (small o ) will declare Jan. 22nd as Freedom for unborn children day. mentioned the absurdity of yesterdays presidential proclamation; “Religious Freedom day.”

  • Obama gives us Freedom From Religious Freedom Day without God.
    Pilate to Christ: “What is TRUTH?” Pilate imposes his definition of TRUTH: “TRUTH is what I say it is. The human being is who I say he is” The despot tells Christ WHO Christ is. Christ responds: “You would have not authority except that it is given from above.” Obama’s proclamation of Religious Freedom Day, January 16, is the usurpation of authentic authority to redefine the Supreme Sovereign Being, the human being, freedom, religion, and the unborn sovereign person. Obama says:”Look, I give you freedom.” and who can argue with a plagiarist? Obama gives us Freedom From Religious Freedom Day without God.

    In proclamation of Freedom of Religion Day, Obama says: Religious Freedom is what I say it is, and only what I say it is. This is the means that Obama uses to dictate to his constituents what their civil rights are. And some fools celebrate it as such. There can be no authentic freedom without the acknowledgment of God, Creator of man’s soul, Endower of unalienable rights. Freedom of Religion Day ought to dissolve the HHS Mandate and reinstate our founding principles.

    !) Man is created equal, not born equal, a self-evident truth we hold.

    2) Man is endowed by “their Creator” with unalienable rights.

    3) Man is endowed by “their Creator” with an unalienable Right to Life.

    4) Man is endowed by “their Creator” with an unalienable Right to Liberty

    5) Man is endowed by “their Creator” with an unalienable right to pursue his Happiness.

    6) Man is free to relate, to speak, to write and peaceably assemble with and for the Supreme Sovereign Being.

    7) These, our founding principles were inscribed 225 years ago and cannot be vacated, redefined or plagiarized by Obama.

    8) The unalienable right to the pursuit of Happiness vacates the HHS Mandate that is violating so many sovereign citizens’ conscience. The unalienable Right to Life vacates the HHS Mandate and abortion. The unalienable Right to Liberty vacates the redefinition of atheism as a religion.

    9) Obama cannot give us a Freedom of Religion Day without God, for that is usurpation.

    10) The Second Amendment cannot be changed without two/thirds of the states ratifying the change. Obama says that he has some Executive authority to change some of the Second Amendment, but Obama is mistaken. Eminent domain is no longer for public use and has been redefined for public purposes, such as the politicians’ new pay raise and vacation or maybe their health insurance. Only with two/thirds of the states ratifying such a change can the change be made. This is our Constitution.

    11) We, the people, have failed “to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity”

    The Constitution is written for the sovereign person, who has come into existence by the creative power of God. It is the sovereign person’s choice how he will worship and acknowledge God. I do not think that it is through aborting others.

  • Mary De Voe,
    Congressmen / women are career-“minded & hearted” as they occupy a seat that is to be honorable and mission based. Serve the public…right?

    Is this, the current abuses and what seems like run-a-muck hypocrisy the beginning of the end of our freedoms?
    Executive orders and edicts leading to the “powder keg” that will soon feel the heat of a short lit fuse?

    I believe your thread. You have aptly hit it!…the sovereign person.
    I will continue to pray, protest and plead the case of Christ. For in him is our Hope, our Freedom and our Future.

  • Art, I’m not sure I disagree with much of what you wrote. Again, though, it actually affirms what the Framers believed. That society has crumbled as the constitutional safeguards they installed were ignored and done away with only confirms that what they feared about government and democracies was accurate. If there is fault with them and the Constitution is that there is no adequate means of addressing the issue of who has the final say on constitutional interpretation. If Hamilton was naive it was in writing things like the Judiciary would be the least dangerous branch of government. They did not foresee the rise of an imperial judiciary. And while they thought that the Supreme Court should be an arbiter of the Constitutional, they never believed it should be the final arbiter.

    Is the design flawed? No.

  • All designs are flawed, and the utility of designs is perishable.

  • “Though conservatives like to point out that the government created under the Constitution is one of limited powers – a fact which is undeniably true – the Constitution actually enhanced the powers of the federal government and was meant, in part, to curb some of the excesses of unlimited state authority.”
    This conservative in NY would appreciate a little curbing aimed at Cuomo&Co.

  • “Government without justice is mass brigandage.” St. Augustine

    If a gang of fascists or imbeciles in legislatures (none campaigned on gun control) and courts are illegally amending or to repealing parts of the Constituion.

    The political/social “contract” that bind us as a people is being torn asunder.

    These tired, effete “people control” exec orders and gun confiscation laws would not have saved one Sandy Hook school child nor will they make one US pupil safer.

    Criminals and madmen (by nature) don’t obey laws.

    It is a special kind of stupid of which these people suffer. It’s the reason every trillion-dollar liberal wet dream has been a waste of those trillions of dollars and a waste time and effort, with the “beneficiaries” of the liberal wet dreams worse off ever after.

    And, this idiocy explains the re-election (51% of voters) of the worst president in history and, concomitantly, the destruction of American peace and prosperity.

    The deficits, money printing, regulations, and presidential hate-mongering cannot go on forever. And, it will not. Soon, the “fat lady” will have sung her last note.

  • Could she expedite that song? Say yesterday. That would work for me.

  • Those stating that one of the purposes of the constition was to prevent state governments from trampling our freedoms should be aware that this was not true of the original constitution. The limits the original constitution placed on states were how states were to interact with each other and with foreign powers. For the first hundred years the Bill of Rights did not apply to the states, their constitutions had their own BOR’s. it was not till 1897 that SCOTUS decided that wasn’t good enough and started holding the states to selective amendments.

  • Those stating that one of the purposes of the constition was to prevent state governments from trampling our freedoms should be aware that this was not true of the original constitution.

    Well the original Constitution didn’t go as far in this regard as some of the Framers would have liked. Madison’s original plan called for a national veto over state laws, and this was actually a major concern for him. But that got shot down at the convention. That said, the Constitution did pull back from the states some of the unbounded powers it enjoyed previously. But you’re absolutely right about the Bill of Rights not applying to the states until the Supreme Court discovered the magical jujitsu power of the 14th Amendment.

  • This conservative in NY would appreciate a little curbing aimed at Cuomo&Co.

    The text of the 2d Amendment is as follows:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

    The plain meaning a) recognizes a personal right and b) specifies that what is referred to would be military arms. It does not specify the authority which may not so infringe. On the face of it, the people are immune from the actions of any public authority, not merely Congress and the agencies which act at its direction.

    The thing is, ascertaining what the boundary conditions of this right are is a perplexing task. Clayton Cramer has been building a case that Saul Cornell (an obnoxious advocate of the view that the Amendment protects the franchise of the states to set up militias) has been defrauding his readers by systematically ignoring 19th century case law which recognized this as a personal right. That aside, there is a question of whether it applies against state governments or not. Aside from that, there is the question of how literally to interpret this formulation. As a rule, people do not conceive of a right of free speech to encompass a right to run up and down residential streets at three o’clock in the morning bare assed and screaming obscenities. What would be the analogous situation with regard to 2d Amendment rights?

    (Personally, I would be pleased if Gov. Cuomo would propose amendments and legislation to scrape the barnacles off the state’s hull. Our political architecture is a mess, but no element of the political class seems to care, including the journalists who cover the legislature. At least Mr. Zummo will likely not tell me that the Unified Court System or the Town Law have no design flaws).

  • “As a rule, people do not conceive of a right of free speech to encompass a right to run up and down residential streets at three o’clock in the morning bare assed and screaming obscenities. What would be the analogous situation with regard to 2d Amendment rights?”
    @Art Deco
    1) Only truth is allowed freedom in the public and private spheres. Obscenities are out and a person must be arrested, that is stopped, by peace keeping officers and officials.
    2) Curfew laws are in place even if not widely acknowledged. No noise after ten o’clock.
    3) When I stop laughing I will write. The exposure of the human body must be respected and have an important reason. Take Lady Godiva. Lady Godiva was protesting the heavy taxes. Her husband was the tax collector. She gave him back her clothes, as did St. Francis, informed the town of her protest and asked for indulgence.
    4) Rightfully so. If the government disarms the person and injury is inflicted, the government becomes an accessory after the fact, not only for disarming the citizen, but for not protecting the citizen. The state then becomes liable to restitution for its failure to safeguard the citizen, and also complicit in disarming the citizen. Double jeopardy for the citizen, none for the culprit and his accomplice, the state. Endangerment is against the law, even for Cuomo.

  • @4) Government becomes an accessory before (before) the fact of injury inflicted. Sorry about that.

  • @Philip: The sovereign person constitutes the state. As you have probably read me before, the sovereign person loses his sovereignty when he consents to crime and sin, murder and lying. Criminals do not constitute the state. The sovereign person who constitutes the state and the state, itself must be protected from such and the Department of Justice is called into being by such a need. Any individual human being who presumes to deprive another sovereign person of his sovereignty, civil rights and Creator endowed unalienable rights forfeits his own unalienable rights. The atheist forfeits his own Creator endowed unalienable rights by despising, rejecting and repudiating, actually plagiarizing and impersonating the Creator, the Supreme Sovereign Being and Endower of sovereignty. The proof of this fact is that the atheist does not endow LIFE, nor does the atheist bless LIFE. Life, for the atheist, must be snuffed out by the atheist because HUMAN LIFE gives testament to the Supreme Sovereign Being, creator of LIFE. The Right to LIFE inscribed in the Declaration of Independence is from “their Creator”, and not from the community as the Declaration on Human Rights of the United Nations declares. One nation under the world bank would impose these godless human rights that might be disposed of by the state, by the “community” that plagiarizes these rights from God.
    In an act of free will, the atheist rejects the Creator of his free will, thereby making of himself, a beast of burden to the state, making of himself a human being devoid of his rational, immortal soul. The atheist then imposes his dehumanizing decision on sovereign and free people to make himself “somebody”.
    A real somebody praises God every second of every day for his being.