Monday, March 18, AD 2024 9:41pm

Fortnight For Freedom 2017

 

As in years past The American Catholic will participate in the Fortnight for Freedom proclaimed by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.  Each day up to the Fourth of July we will have a special blog post on the subject of liberty and freedom.

I debated in my mind whether to participate this year.  With a friend of liberty in the White House, it seemed less pressing to participate than under the odious Obama regime that was a clear and pressing danger to American liberty.  However, as our history shows, eternal vigilance is the price of liberty and the issues raised in regard to the defense of our freedoms goes to the very heart of what it means to be an American.  This country was born in furious debate and thus it must continue.  And so we will take part again this year.

 

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Mary De Voe
Tuesday, June 20, AD 2017 8:16am

God made all things AND KEEPS THEM IN EXISTENCE. it is this “KEEPS THEM IN EXISTENCE” battle that must be fought against the forces of hell. It is God’s battle. Make no mistake. “their Creator” created man in freedom and endowed the sovereignty of man to each and every person. It is to maintain the kingdom of heaven that we must be constantly vigilant.

David
David
Tuesday, June 20, AD 2017 8:35am

Freedom, use it or loose it. The same can be said of Teaching Authority.

It was during the Obama administration when I first heard… a sermon on contraception, a weak one, but one none the less. Now, things are suddenly quiet again.
We need exercises in solid Teaching much more than a “Fortnight For Freedom 2017” celebration.

Anzlyne
Anzlyne
Tuesday, June 20, AD 2017 9:23am

The captains of our ships…both secular and sacred, seem to be asleep at the wheel! Bishops wake up!

Amateur Brain Surgeon
Amateur Brain Surgeon
Tuesday, June 20, AD 2017 2:25pm

The USCCB claims “How to talk about Religious Liberty,” that religious Freedom is “2. A Fundamental Right” but religious freedom is not a fundamental right in Catholic Tradition and so it seems to ABS that claim is in direct opposition to Mirari Vos, Pascendi, The Syllabus of Errors, the Leonine Encyclicals, (Immortale Dei, and Libertas) and other examples could be multiplied.

It can not be contested the Magisterium of today has pitted itself against the Magisterium of Tradition and so instead of celebrating this contentious chaos, let’s consider just getting drunk.

The Thomist, Msgr. BruneroGherardini, “The Ecumenical Vatican Council II A MUCH NEEDED DISCUSSION” produces a recapitulation of the Church historic opposition to the claims of the USCCB (See Denzinger 647 for a rather different consideration of Religious LIberty).

On page 217 of his text, Msgr Gherardini observes: The content of DH and the contents of the previous Magisterium are different. So, there is neither continuity nor development of the previous Magisterium in DH.

Anzlyne
Anzlyne
Tuesday, June 20, AD 2017 4:51pm

“religious freedom, as we understand it today” I wish I understood how we understand it today 🙂
We are getting into the odd position of seculars discussing and dividing theological questions– like Bernard Sanders- whose opinion has some weight.
Plus, of course, words don’t mean what they have always meant– and they mean different things in different places. I read that religious freedom in England meant that every citizen had the right to the ministration of the Anglican church.

Anzlyne
Anzlyne
Tuesday, June 20, AD 2017 5:42pm

Yes I understood that and appreciated your post. I was just jumping to a aspect of the discussion that is a concern to me– a lack of shared understanding of the meaning of terms.
And also the very loud voice of today’s secular politicians who have a big impact religious liberty, maybe without a personal involvement in religion.

Michael Dowd
Michael Dowd
Wednesday, June 21, AD 2017 2:49am

With the Catholic Church siding with the secular world in so many ways we have to wonder whether in the future the Fortnight of Freedom will be seen as an archaic and un-necessary practice. Seems to me our general loss of faith within and outside the Church should be our main concern.

Amateur Brain Surgeon
Amateur Brain Surgeon
Wednesday, June 21, AD 2017 5:35am

Limited religious tolerance was always extended to the Jews, for example, with the Popes of the Middle Ages often being the protector of the Jews

True enough but the Church did not let them proselytise and Catholics could not work for them etc. whereas the Judaised protestants who established America were keen on preventing the true religion from being an effective force against its desires and so they chose to keep religion private even though Catholic Doctrine teaches the state has a duty to worship God publicly.

ABS acknowledges we disagree on this but he is not about to belabor the point on your blog so ABS will just retire from this thread and thank you for your patience.

Simliar repossess could be made to your other examples

Tom McKenna
Wednesday, June 21, AD 2017 7:58am

While prudential concerns might dictate that tolerance be extended by the state, and indeed, in the modern world, it’s hard to imagine a state (though some exceptions come to mind: Poland, for instance) *not* exercising practical tolerance, it is undeniable that the Church taught, as part of its ordinary magisterium, that the state qua state has a duty to acknowledge the one true religion and favor it, since the purpose of the state is to facilitate the telos of human existence, namely salvation, and salvation comes only through Christ and His Church. Again, that the public recognition of the Church and the suppressing of sects might be utterly impractical at a given time does not diminish the reality of the state’s duties with respect to God.

Tom McKenna
Wednesday, June 21, AD 2017 12:22pm

Well, the point is, regardless of one’s view about the historical success or not of state cooperation with the Church (a lengthy, complicated, and nuanced one, revealing successes and failures), the Church’s *doctrine* as opposed to any individual’s assessment of the wisdom of how the doctrine has concretely played out, is clear: the State, deriving authority as it does from God, is bound to cooperate in helping men achieve their final end. For further study, cf, Mortalium Animos, Libertas Praestantissimum, Mirari Vos, the Syllabus of Errors, Vehementer Nos, and even the “liberal” Leo XII in Longique Oceana, where he said: “it would be very erroneous to draw the conclusion that in America is to be sought the type of the most desirable status of the Church, or that it would be universally lawful or expedient for State and Church to be, as in America, dissevered and divorced.”
I agree with the Popes and the Magisterium on this one.

Art Deco
Art Deco
Wednesday, June 21, AD 2017 3:05pm

whereas the Judaised protestants

Oh?

who established America were keen on preventing the true religion from being an effective force against its desires and so they chose to keep religion private even though Catholic Doctrine teaches the state has a duty to worship God publicly.

That’s a most … inventive understanding of New England Puritans.

trackback
Thursday, June 22, AD 2017 7:23am

[…] Kosloski, Aleteia On the “Hortensius” – Fr. James V. Schall S.J., The Catholic Thing Fortnight For Freedom 2017 – Donald R. McClarey J.D., The American Catholic Gift of Tradition: The Catechism – […]

Tom McKenna
Thursday, June 22, AD 2017 9:01am

Sorry, but the perennial doctrine on the duties of the state to the true Faith remains unchanged by Vatican II, as the Declaration on Religious Liberty expressly stated, that document, while acknowledging a personal right to free exercise of religion, “leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.”
That “untouched traditional doctrine” was expressed in the papal magisterial documents I mentioned previously. There is no more definitive statement than these encyclicals, affirmed by the express words of an Ecumenical Council, regardless of the personal opinions of a particular Pope. A Catholic may not like that teaching, but a Catholic is bound to accept them by “religious submission of the mind and will,” as Lumen Gentium, another document of Vatican II phrased it.

Amateur Brain Surgeon
Amateur Brain Surgeon
Thursday, June 22, AD 2017 10:18am

Where the State has historically adopted a hands off policy with the Church, the Church has flourished

Not in America.

Both the One Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church and The State are perfect societies in that each has as its disposal all of the means to meet each of its ends (salvation and Sanctification, Church Common Good, State) but both must acknowledge God as the source of authority and, thus, the state can not legislate in opposition to Jesus Christ the King as His commandments and yet we see that America has established positive law that succors the Four Sins crying to Heaven for Vengeance.

Abortion
Sodomy
Usury
Open Borders -> excessive labor -> decreased wages
etc etc.

This malign madness is one that ought not be celebrated

Amatuer Brain Surgeon
Amatuer Brain Surgeon
Thursday, June 22, AD 2017 1:24pm

That’s a most … inventive understanding of New England Puritans.

It is not really inventive, rather, it just describes what happened in a nutshell.

The English Puritans exited to the Low Countries where they we’re schooled by such men as the Jews who had been bounced out of Spain and those prots/puritans came to the colonies and established their Judaised Protestant state.

P. 84 here:

http://www.nhinet.org/moots23-1.pdf

OK, earlier ABS said he would shut up and so he will even though the topic is interesting

Art Deco
Art Deco
Thursday, June 22, AD 2017 5:35pm

Of course it has, at least until Vatican II. Also compare and contrast the state of the Church in this country with traditional Catholic countries like Spain and Austria where the Church is on life support.

I think you mean France, not Spain. I’m not aware of any country in Europe bar Malta (and perhaps Poland) where the Church has much vigor, but IIRC Spain and Portugal are above the median.

Art Deco
Art Deco
Thursday, June 22, AD 2017 5:40pm

It is not really inventive, rather, it just describes what happened in a nutshell.

In the space between your ears only.

Tom McKenna
Thursday, June 22, AD 2017 7:27pm

I wrote my undergrad thesis on the conflict between Dignitatis Humanae and the traditional teaching of the Church, particularly as enunciated by the Church Fathers, so yes, I’m acutely aware of the “tension” (to put it mildly) between DH and tradition. Nonetheless, the duty of a Catholic is, to use the legalese we so love, to interpret the teaching in pari materia, attempting to show continuity, not discontinuity. Many have done so with respect to DH, some with more success than others. Fr. Brian Harrison (another lawyer!) came closest in my view. http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt151.html
What all orthodox commenters maintain, however, is that the traditional teaching remains intact so far as the duties of individuals and societies both to acknowledge the Kingship of Christ and order their affairs accordingly. This does not, by the way, necessarily mean a fusion of Church and State, but rather the State accompanying the Church in the effort to save souls. Think 15th and 16th century Spain, where a confessional state kept the country from going Protestant. Other examples exist, but it’s a sidetrack, since the issue is the principle. By the way, “perfect society” is a theological/philosophical term of art, not a concrete descriptive. Both Church and state are in fact perfect societies. (cf., http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35522)

Amateur Brain Surgeon
Amateur Brain Surgeon
Friday, June 23, AD 2017 7:58am

IMMORTALE DEI
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE CHRISTIAN CONSTITUTION OF STATES

See #23- #36
 if there is no time to read all of it
note #35 in which Pope Leo XII reiterates Tradition that Church and State are perfect societies.

The Church has abandoned Tradition vis a vis the Church and State and it is impossible to reconcile DH with Tradition.

In any event, were a nominal Catholic (i.e. the USCCB members) to read the great encyclicals of Pope Leo XII, they’d be constrained to clam-up about glorifying Freedom of Religion.

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