Pope Francis is apologizing for us again:
“As the bishop of Rome and pastor of the Catholic Church, I would like to invoke mercy and forgiveness for the non-evangelical behavior of Catholics toward Christians of other churches,” he said Monday. “At the same time, I invite all Catholic brothers and sisters to forgive if today, or in the past, they have suffered offense by other Christians.
“We cannot cancel what has happened, but we don’t want to let the weight of past harm continue to pollute our relations.”
Earlier Monday, the Vatican said Francis’ visit to Sweden will “highlight the important ecumenical developments that have taken place during the past 50 years of dialogue between Catholics and Lutherans.” It will include a common worship service based on a recently published Catholic Lutheran liturgical guide to help churches commemorate the Reformation anniversary together.
The Catholic Church estimates there are about 150,000 Catholics in Sweden, including 113,000 registered members, according to Kristina Hellner of the Catholic Diocese of Stockholm.
Martin Luther’s challenge to the Catholic doctrine of indulgences in 1517 is remembered as the start of the Reformation, from which the Protestant churches originated out of criticism of the Church of Rome led by the pope.
Significantly, when Francis issued his apology Monday, he said he was doing so as bishop of Rome — a title he often emphasizes in ecumenical settings where the primacy of the pope is still a cause for tension.
Go here to read the rest. Pope Francis did not initiate papal apologies. This fad was started by John Paul II. It is an idiotic business that should cease. Apologizing for events centuries in the past, especially when zero attempt is made to understand the historical context, is foolishness on stilts. PopeWatch is proud to be a Catholic, and will make no apologies for a Faith that has had to battle for survival through twenty turbulent centuries. I wish we had a Pope who felt the same way, and who gave some sign that he likes being Catholics and likes most Catholics.
As of yet there are no apologies forthcoming from the Anglicans, Calvinists, Lutherans, etc…..
This was an ill advised exercise by JPII. As for the current Roman Pontiff, I have my ignore button pressed.
Bishop of Rome, or Pope? Isn’t it convenient to have two differing titles? Are they equals in authority, or is one a subservient technicality? Can a mere local bishop have the authority to apologize for the entire Church and all the other bishops? I’m confused.
“Bishop of Rome“ is the theologically significant title, and the one that gets him his authority, hence its defensive use here.
“ Catholic Lutheran liturgical guide to help churches commemorate the Reformation anniversary together.“
ummmm……….wut? What? Why? Am I the only one who thinks that makes a very limited amount of sense
I agree with St. JPII apologizing inter alia for 19th century Catholic behaviour in China. I have loved ones in both mainland and Taiwan….very smart ones who agree with St. JPII. France who represented Catholic interests in treaties in that period militarily with others and with a proportion of Catholic soldiers opened China up by force to both missionaries and British opium in the Second Opium War treaty. Drug dealing and God don’t mix. A Chinese provincial ruler had written to the Queen of England about the damage to families that opium was doing….she never wrote back. Educated Chinese know such stories. Britain needed opium sales in China via India because her desire for Chinese products was draining her of silver.
I think Francis attending a reformation commemoration is another absurd imprudence unless he is partly in the spirit of fraternal correction going to speak on behalf of indulgences and speak against the divorce culture that the reformation produced worldwide really. I think he will not be so brave. The papacy should be chiefly rulership work…admin work. It’s not. It’s authoring and formal gatherings and travel and speeches. I can’t watch it.
“Educated Chinese know such stories.”
Myths rather. Opium was in China long before the Europeans and is still there. Chinese governments find the Opium Wars a useful way to blame the West for Chinese woes.
http://www.economist.com/node/21534758
Why should the temporal head of the Catholic Church participate in the anniversary of the Reformation? This is nuts. My ancestors in Switzerland hid the RC priests from spiked club yielding Zwinglian mobs. All of us with European ancestry can probably trace ancestors who were on one side or another of religious conflicts.
The Reformation, the Counter Reformation, the Inquisition, the 30 Years War, etc. – past history which should not be forgotten, but we should concentrate on the present. “This fad was started by John Paul II. It is an idiotic business that should cease. Apologizing for events centuries in the past, especially when zero attempt is made to understand the historical context, is foolishness on stilts.” So true, Don McC.
Because we are the one true church, Episcopalians, Anglicans, and Lutherans are converting…a silent counter reformation.
Perhaps the Bishop of Rome should schedule a low key visit to his Catholic faithful in Scandinavia on a separate visit instead of grandstanding with the Lutherans.
I invite readers to double check myself and Donald in actual books by experts on the Chinese and opium in the 19th century specifically..not prior. Were they trying to get rid of it while the West was forcing it on them. Books by historians making a living at writing on that period….not the internet.
I guess we have to wait ’til October to see how the Lutheran cartoonists satirize the “Hippie Pope”. There should be plenty of material to inspire them.
“I invite readers”
And when they do they will find out that Donald, as usual, knows what he is talking about when it comes to history. Opium addiction in China took off in the seventeenth century with the smoking of opium combined with tobacco. Chinese edicts against opium were usually dead letters as Chinese officials profited greatly from opium smuggling. By the late 19th century Chinese domestic opium production exceeded imports.
Good one, CAM ?
Donald,
Absolutely nothing you’re addressing is to the point of St. JPII apologizing for Catholic behaviour in China. Nothing.
Your belief means that no one need apologize if they can get true or somewhat true dirt on the other party ( how much real government was there in China in late 19th century…an historian would have been explicit on that…and pointed out that after the treaty, Chinese provinces had the West’s moral example and approbation to grow opium in the late 19th century. The Christians do it.
I apologized to someone last month with no caveats as to what they did wrong in that skirmish…and trust me, it was mostly them but God smacked me up side the head and moved me to apologize….because apology has zero to do with whether the other person was angel or devil. You can’t in confession tell the priest: ” I sold opium to a guy but he liked it way before I sold it to him.” Priest: ” Are you confessing or not?”
“Absolutely nothing you’re addressing is to the point of St. JPII apologizing for Catholic behaviour in China. Nothing.”
My post addressed the issue of meaningless apologies for past events Bill. It also pointed out lack of historical context, as illustrated by the BS fed to your loved ones about the evil West v. Virtuous China in their classes on the mainland and Taiwan. Opium addiction in China was not caused by the West but rather was caused by the Chinese desire to consume opiates. These idiot apologies always play into the worst type of identity politics, another reason that they are pernicious.
John Paul II rightly could care less if some Chinese liked opium already. It nevertheless was mortal sin for Westerners to force it by way of war and death onto the Chinese government who at that earlier part of the century was trying to suppress it…even per your link.
My loved ones are Cornell, Carnegie Mellon and Wharton …no one fools them and they are familiar with Chinese doing bad things….believe me.
For hundreds of years my ancestors condemned Catholics for their faith. I once did as well. It is I who needs to apologize for THEM and for what I did.
I am a convert to the Church from a long line of Methodist clerics. I’ve brought with me my adult children and wife. What I find I have walked into is a monstrous domestic dispute of Biblical proportions. I find the Pope’s actions here nothing short of reprehensible. Especially since the group of Lutherans he plans to honor are sodomite-supporting heretics from the heretical faith of even the Arch-heretic Luther himself! Luther had SOME standards, and by the standards of his day would very likely have had these women “bishops” and sodomite-ordainers gibetted.
And the Pope desecrate his office by supporting them in their sin.
WHEN WILL A BISHOP…OR BISHOPS…HONORABLY RESIST THIS MAN TO HIS FACE?
“It nevertheless was mortal sin for Westerners to force it by way of war and death onto the Chinese government who at that earlier part of the century was trying to suppress it…even per your link.”
Yes, and an apology by the Pope for that is as meaningless as the Archbishop of Canterbury apologizing for the potato famine. If the Pope is going to take upon himself the task of apologizing for every wrong that has ever been done by Catholic nations or groups he will have time for little else, which in regard to the present Pope might not be a bad thing actually. Of course these apologies have nothing to do with actual historical events and everything to do with current ethnic and racial politics. As to the Chinese apology I suspect that John Paul II hoped it would make the Chinese government easier to deal with in regard to Chinese Catholics, and that certainly has not happened.
In regard to China the hilarious thing, aside from the fact that the Chinese are trying to lay the blame for Chinese opium addiction on outsiders, is that China has almost always been an imperial power and rather ruthless with neighboring countries, and internal minority groups. as Tibetans could attest today. If worthless apologies for historical wrongs are to be regarded as a good idea, I can’t wait for representatives of the Middle Kingdom to begin work on their considerable share.
This is merely an attack against the pre-Vatican II Church
wrapped in an apology. I’m not surprised that the radicals
have embraced the heretic Luther. Expect more attacks as
the radicals transform the Church.
Excellent observation, Franco. If the Lutherans are essentially “right”, Trent is all wrong. St Charles Borromeo, St Pius V, St Peter Canisius, were all wrong too. V2 is right, however.
Some of this discussion today has been about the importance of getting history right .
The pope’s action here does a real disservice to the truth about history and a disservice to all of us .
I completely agree with Donald. Pope Francis seems to have taken a page out of Obama’s playbook, apologizing to those who owe you an apology or gratitude. It is a form of preemptive surrender, leading from behind, mealy mouthed nonsense.
If there are to be apologies it is the Lutherans who should apologize to Catholics for all the damage they have inflicted on the world by following their sex crazed heretical founder. It is time for them to surrender and come back to the Holy Catholic Church–such as it is today.
My apologies in advance Donald, I couldn’t resist:
http://youtu.be/G_bdMecxias