Saint Patrick and the Trinity

Sunday, May 31, AD 2015

Well, the Trinity is a hard concept for human minds to grasp, something we often encounter when describing God.  Saint Patrick probably never used a shamrock to describe the Trinity, but I like to think he did state what the Trinity is when he spoke to two daughters of an Irish King:

 

 

St. Patrick, full of the Holy Spirit, responded, “Our God is the God of all, the God of heaven and earth, the God of the seas and rivers, the God of the sun and moon, and all the other planets; the God of the high hills and low valleys; God over heaven, in heaven, and under heaven; and He has a mansion, that is, heaven, and the earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them. He inspireth all things. He quickeneth all things. He enkindleth all things. He giveth light to the sun, and to the moon. He created fountains in the dry land, and placed dry islands in the sea, and stars to minister to the greater lights. He hath a Son, coeternal and coequal with Himself; and the Son is not younger than the Father, nor is the Father older than the Son. And the Holy Ghost breatheth in them. And the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are not divided. I desire, moreover, to unite you to the Son of the heavenly king, for ye are daughters of an earthly king.

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3 Responses to Saint Patrick and the Trinity

Post Civil War Recessions

Sunday, May 31, AD 2015

Run_on_the_Seamen's_Savings'_Bank_during_the_Panic_of_1857

Farewell the tranquil mind! Farewell content!
Farewell the plumèd troops and the big wars
That makes ambition virtue! Oh, farewell!
Shakespeare, Othello

 

It is unsurprising that post Civil War the country entered a period of recessions.  Prior to the Civil War the nation had known periods of booms and bust, both usually short-lived.  The Civil War had been boom times in the North with war spending ensuring no recession during the War.  With the turning off of the Federal money spigot in the wake of the War, and the return of men to civilian life, the country entered a period of recession that did not end until December 1869.

The subsequent boom period was very short lived, with a new recession stretching from June 1869-December 1870.  The Panic of 1873 led to the Long Depression of October 1873-March 1879.

Demobilization after World War I led to a brief, but very sharp, recession.  With these examples, government policies in the demobilization period after World War II were geared to avoid a recession, and they were successful, although I am suspicious that other economic factors likely accounted for the lack of a recession.

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Quotes Suitable for Framing: Saint Augustine

Sunday, May 31, AD 2015

3 Responses to Quotes Suitable for Framing: Saint Augustine

Bernie Sanders and the Pope

Saturday, May 30, AD 2015

You know that you are living in odd times when a socialist Senator from Vermont and the Pope seem to have similar deranged economic ideas.  From Saint Corbinian’s Bear:

 

When it comes to spending, what thing in the world comes after food, clothing and medicine? The fourth is cosmetics and the fifth are pets. That is serious. Pet care is like love that is somewhat programmed; that is, I can program the loving response of a dog or a little cat, and I do not need to have the experience of love with human reciprocity. I am exaggerating, so do not take it literally, but it is to make you think.

Sorry boys, Pope said you gotta go.

 

By the way, you shall not be surprised to learn that the Pope’s rankings are bogus.

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13 Responses to Bernie Sanders and the Pope

  • This is where I stop being a doctrinaire conservative and admit that he’s right in general if not in specific economic detail. We shouldn’t have our economic choices limited in terms of pets or deodorant or whatever, but it does say something about our culture and society that we spend spend spend on stupid pets, while our families rot.

    Francis has “gone off” on the pet issue before… a while back he criticized couples with “two cats and a dog,” but no kids. Well, as a millennial, I know dozens and dozens of couples like this, even family members. It’s bizarre to see so many people obsess over their dogs but remain childless for years.

    Francis isn’t very smart, but we can give him credit when he’s generally in the ballpark.

  • First it is reported the Pope said pets go to Heaven. Then it is reported the Pope said don’t have pets. I believe nothing that is reported.
    .
    As for Bernie Sanders, he is a drop out dope smoking commie pinko hippie nit wit who is largely responsible for the premature decommissioning of a perfectly well functioning nuclear power plant – Vermont Yankee – where I once taught training courses a life time ago. I despise, loathe, abhor, detest and hold in utter contempt and disdain that piece of godless liberal progressive eco-wacko anti-nuclear secular humanist asininity.

  • I found his pets comment understandable in a certain perspective. There are some couples substituting raising children with raising pets. Pets can give a programmed love, and some people are taken to that vs. the sometimes unpredictability of raising a child.
    .
    This comment is not what I found worrisome in Pope Francis’ dialogue. It’s all the other stuff (if translated accurately).
    .
    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/05/25/pope-francis-wants-to-be-remembered-as-a-good-guy/
    Poverty the center of the Gospel? (John 3:16;12:3,7-8)
    Loving to be loved by the people and known as the good guy? (John 15:18-22)

  • This is very odd. Not long ago Bergoglio was complaining
    that Catholic families were breeding like rabbits. Now,
    he complains that people are spending too much of
    their resources on pets.

  • People accused of spending too much money on pets at the expense of having children are people who do not want children. Therefore they substitute pets for children.

    Those of us at the end of the baby boom years (generally speaking the baby boom ended in 1964) and I am almost 52, do not know how much radical enviornmental junk science has been shoved down the throats of Gen X, Gen Y and the millenials.

    Many (not all, but a lot) of teen boys used to argue about Ford versus Chevy versus Dodge. Think that happens anymore? I heard it a lot. Northeast Ohio had factories for all three companies and boys argued about that almost unceasingly. Since the Exxon Valdez, the enviro-terrorists have been relentless. Cars are bad. Too many people are bad. Factories are bad. New housing subdivisions are labeled “McMansions” just like the media attacked SUVs 10 years ago. One never heard “SUV” without hearing “gas-guzzling” in front of it.

    Meanwhile, Al Gore flies all over the world ranting and raving about enviro-doom and the media never calls him out on his lack of credentials or his hypocrisy. Hollywood types told us that we had ten years to clean the oceans or we would all die. That was 11 or 12 years ago.

    We have endured more than two years of the current pontificate and if anything is certain, we Catholics who take our faith seriously (and let me add that I am a sinner who needs the Sacrament of Confession) realize that the current Roman Pontiff talks about things that are outside of his circle of knowledge, talks without thinking things through or bothering to consider the effect his words have and has surrounded himself with others who share his narrow worldview.

    The Roman Pontiff criticizes what he thinks is capitalism. Free market economics do not exist in his native country and he has shown no interest in learning anything about them, even though the Acton Institute could straighten him out. I suspect the Acton Institute could do nothing to educate +Rodriguez Maradiaga.

    The Church hierarchy has long misunderstood economics, usually favoring government intervention in order to “give preferential treatment to the poor”, without doing a damned thing to end poverty.

  • Here is my concern. Bergoglio is a stubborn leftist who supports
    the commie left’s position on climate control. This radical environmental
    movement advocates, in the name of the environment or the planet, population
    control and restricting the use of limited resources through massive
    taxation, which will severely restrict people’s spending habits – in this
    case on pets and cosmetics. The commie left’s goal is to have people
    wearing Mao jackets, living in a small 200 square foot room, consuming
    one bowl of gruel with one piece of stale bread, riding bikes for
    transportation, and having one child. In my opinion that is the goal,
    or something like it.

  • Really, the amount someone spends on something tells us nothing about the relative importance he attaches to it.

    The fact that I spend five or six times more on my horses than I do on food does not mean my horses are more important to me than food; it simply means my appetite for food is not insatiable and that food is rather cheap, leaving me with sufficient disposable income to satisfy my tastes for other things.

    Again, I spend about £3 a week on bread and about £40 a month on a bottle of single malt. Nevertheless, if it were a question of going without bread altogether or whiskey altogether, I should probably forego the whiskey.

    I once heard a conversation between a mother and daughter at Royal Ascot. The daughter, obviously an earnest young woman, said reproachfully, “What you spent on that hat would keep a poor family for a week.”
    “Yes, darling and it probably did” replied the mother.

  • Penguins Fan-the bill of particulars for this Pope grows almost daily. What I find annoying is the imprudent and undisciplined expressions of what we use to call prudential judgment. It is an irony lost on His Holiness that by stating ignorance as knowledge, or worse as truth, he lacks the humility he so esteems.

    Franco–you will soon see that the Pope’s leftist proclamations will enter the American political battleground. Someone like Santorum won’t stand a chance as he tries to explain why Catholics don’t have to listen to leftist pablum pouring forth from the Occupy Vatican crowd.

    Michael—what are you drinking these days…always looking for a good recommendation under triple digits of course— I don’t want to offend anyone by spending too much on the good nectar.

  • Cthemfly25 asks, “Michael—what are you drinking these days…always looking for a good recommendation under triple digits of course…”

    I am very partial to the Islay malts, like Bowmore, Lagavulin and Laphroaig, with their rich, peaty flavours.
    By way of variety, I like some of the Speyside malts, the light ones like Glenlivet or the sweet,sherried ones, like the Macallan.
    In my opinion, they should all be sipped neat, at room temperature. Whiskey and soda is an English abomination, but hardly surprising, considering the industrial-grade grain alcohol that enterprising Scots have induced them to buy in large quantities, under the denomination of “whiskey.”

  • Just found your website and read some of these comments. Have to get off asap as I have rarely seen such UGLINESS associated with a Catholic publication— . Perhaps you should submit your entire enterprise to the Vatican Exorcist. But then the flag waving icons………and their typical pea brain connotations should have been a clue.

  • Why thank you Mary for your kind, Christian sentiments. That you are repelled by orthodoxy and patriotism perhaps speaks more about you than about us.

  • Mary Riley – Liberal Progressive Democrat. Nothing more need be said.

  • Flag waving … pea brain connotations…?
    Mary. Have you no experience of love and pride in our country ?
    .
    I know you say it’s pea brained, but there Is a certain intellectual appreciation for what binds us together. But, more than intellect , there is LOVE. Not just love of liberty, or love of philosophical ideals, or love of Virtue…but just Love.
    You speak of hatred here in these posts, but you have misunderstood. It is Love that corrects and reprimands and hopes to reform.
    Sometimes there are hard words here, true. I have had to write to Donald and say please take down what I just wrote. I was angry and hurt. but that kind of bad acting is not typical of what happens on this blog. I think you should continue to explore and discuss and learn and love with the rest of us. But keep your mind open – it is the only way communication>growth happens.

PopeWatch: Irish Snakes

Saturday, May 30, AD 2015

8 Responses to PopeWatch: Irish Snakes

  • he said; “snakes have had a bad rap in the past. They have good points ya know. I believe an open dialogue and open mind is essential to building a community where snakes, abortion, self-mutilation, incest and bestiality can be harmonized into a island of love. Afterall, who are we to judge?”

  • I’m stealing this from Instapundit. The mere (former Saxon terminology) Irish have been “fundamentally transformed.”
    .
    They can go to Hell.

  • “What kind of Father hands his son a snake when the son asks for an egg?”

  • Friendship is a gift from God. Friendship cannot co-exist with sodomy. Pope Benedict XVI said that “Eros must be experienced through agape”.

  • @Mary De Voe …Er…the Irish have asked for [a] snake[s] … correction, invited in the snakes.

  • I watch the toxic ascent & acceptance of homosexual sin, socialism, paganism and pray that much more. And when I feel discouraged I remember that such times were foretold and we will survive. Maybe not as individuals but as a church. JMJ

  • @FMShyanguya : “@Mary De Voe …Er…the Irish have asked for [a] snake[s] … correction, invited in the snakes.”
    .
    Yes,@FMShyanguya , you are correct.

  • The State cannot pass laws that are “ex post facto”, laws that are made after the act is done. Article I section 3.
    To redefine marriage, to redefine the human being, to alter sovereign personhood, to interpose the state into the privacy of conscience, informed consent and inter personal relationships with God, burdens the free exercise of religion and is “ex post facto” , unconstitutional. Hopefully, Ireland will remember truth.

4 Responses to Don’t Cry I Am From Argentina

May 29, 1865: Amnesty Proclamation

Friday, May 29, AD 2015

Johnsonfinal

 

Eventually President Andrew Johnson and the Radical Republicans in Congress would come to bitter blows over the issue of amnesty for former Confederates.  However, for now they were in agreement, and the Presidential Proclamation of May 29, 1865 outlined the oath to be taken by former Confederates and the classes of individuals excluded from taking the oath:

Amnesty Proclamation

 

Whereas the President of the United States, on the 8th day of December, A.D. eighteen hundred and sixty-three, and on the 26 day of March, A.D. eighteen hundred and sixty-four, did, with the object to suppress the existing rebellion, to induce all persons to return to their loyalty, and to restore the authority of the United States, issue proclamations offering amnesty and pardon to certain persons who had directly or by implication participated in the said rebellion; and whereas many persons who had so engaged in said rebellion have, since the issuance of said proclamations, failed or neglected to take the benefits offered thereby; and whereas many persons who have been justly deprived of all claim to amnesty and pardon thereunder, by reason of their participation directly or by implication in said rebellion, and continued hostility to the government of the United States since the date of said proclamation, now desire to apply for and obtain amnesty and pardon:

To the end, therefore, that the authority of the government of the United States may be restored, and that peace, order, and freedom may be established, I, ANDREW JOHNSON, President of the United States, do proclaim and declare that I hereby grant to all persons who have, directly or indirectly, participated in the existing rebellion, except as hereinafter excepted, amnesty and pardon, with restoration of all rights of property, except as to slaves, and except in cases where legal proceedings, under the laws of the United States providing for the confiscation of property of persons engaged in rebellion, have been instituted; but upon the condition, nevertheless, that every such person shall take and subscribe the following oath, (or affirmation,) and thenceforward keep and maintain said oath inviolate; and which oath shall be registered for permanent preservation, and shall be of the tenor and effect following, to wit:

I, _______ _______, do solemnly swear, (or affirm,) in presence of Almighty God, that I will henceforth faithfully support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the union of the States thereunder; and that I will, in like manner, abide by, and faithfully support all laws and proclamations which have been made during the existing rebellion with reference to the emancipation of slaves. So help me God.

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14 Responses to May 29, 1865: Amnesty Proclamation

  • It’s always struck me as odd that you would “preserve a union” by killing those with whom you wish to be united and destroying their homes, cities, and livelihoods.

  • It has always struck me as odd that the secessionists were willing to rend the Union in order to preserve the “right” to hold other people as chattels.

  • It has always struck me as odd that the unionists were willing to shred the constitution in order to preserve the union.

  • My only point is that a union that has to be held together by force is not a functioning nation based upon the consent of the governed. At the time of ratification of the constitution several states, including New York and Virginia, specifically reserved the right to rescind their ratifications. I’m not aware that the convention challenged that right. Ironically, the constitution of the confederacy expressly prohibited secession.

    Like the American colonies, the Southern states had every right to be independent, they just didn’t have the power to back it up.

  • “My only point is that a union that has to be held together by force is not a functioning nation based upon the consent of the governed.”

    The Union was given birth under such circumstances with some 20-30% of the free population supporting the British.

    “At the time of ratification of the constitution several states, including New York and Virginia, specifically reserved the right to rescind their ratifications.”
    Which of course had zero impact on the effect of the Constitution after they ratified the Constitution. The only way after that to change the Constitution was by amendment or armed revolution.

    “Like the American colonies, the Southern states had every right to be independent, they just didn’t have the power to back it up.”

    No, because there was no long train of abuses, in Mr. Jefferson’s phrase, to justify revolution.

  • While there was significant dissension among the colonists regarding the Revolution, the Revolution did not create a union. It merely established independence.

    Concur that the Constitution can only be changed by amendment or armed revolution.

    Had the South succeeded, the “long train of abuses” would have been just as apparent as those asserted against Britain.

  • “While there was significant dissension among the colonists regarding the Revolution, the Revolution did not create a union”

    It most certainly did in the Declaration of Independence.

    “Had the South succeeded, the “long train of abuses” would have been just as apparent as those asserted against Britain.”

    Only if slavery were still practiced in the Confederacy.

  • Declaration of Independence established a nation? Hadn’t heard that one.

    Don’t follow your second point. One of the primary reasons for the economic, cultural, and social division between north and south was admittedly the slave-based economy of the south vs. the industrial north. But that didn’t make those divisions any less real. Even if the south had ultimately been able to exercise the privilege of self-redemption on the issue of slavery (as every other Western nation did), the political and cultural divisions would have remained. The fact is that, as with the colonists and the mother country, the two sides had simply arrived at the point where they just didn’t like each other very much.

  • “Declaration of Independence established a nation? Hadn’t heard that one.”

    It says so in the text.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

    “Even if the south had ultimately been able to exercise the privilege of self-redemption on the issue of slavery (as every other Western nation did), the political and cultural divisions would have remained.”

    Other than South Carolina during the Nullification Crisis of 1832-33, the South never attempted secession except over slavery. The differences between North and South never threatened national unity except over slavery.

  • “Free and independent states” is perfectly compatible with the mind of the south.

    Succession being about slavery is your belief, but I’m pretty certain that most southerners of the day didn’t think that way. They were quite aware that their “peculiar institution” was on the wrong side of the gospel. Pope Pius IX perceived danger for the church in the north if the 19th century movement towards secularism and attacks on ascribed authority were unchecked. Pius IX saw such intellectual trends as too liberal. Southern Catholics shared the Pope’s view of northern culture as a threat to the continued existence of Catholic Christianity. Slavery was in the mix, but was far from bei9ng the only motivation for secession.

  • ““Free and independent states” is perfectly compatible with the mind of the south.”

    Virtually none of the Founding Fathers, North or South, believed that they were doing anything other than creating a new nation, the United States of America, as indicated in the Declaration. How this new nation was to be governed was left for another day, but the creation of a new nation, made up of the States, was the whole point of the Revolution.

    “Seccession being about slavery is your belief, but I’m pretty certain that most southerners of the day didn’t think that way.”

    Jefferson Davis in his first address to the Confederate Congress said that secession was undertaken to defend slavery.

    “They were quite aware that their “peculiar institution” was on the wrong side of the gospel.”

    No, most white Southerners by the time of the Civil War viewed slavery as a positive good, and the only way the two races could live together. See the Cornerstone speech of Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy.

    “Pope Pius IX perceived danger for the church in the north if the 19th century movement towards secularism and attacks on ascribed authority were unchecked. Pius IX saw such intellectual trends as too liberal.”

    No historical support at all for this contention. Pius IX did hate nineteenth century liberalism and regarded the Confederacy as a foe of liberalism. In this he was confused. But for slavery the Confederacy was the most liberal state in the world, except for the Union.

    “Southern Catholics shared the Pope’s view of northern culture as a threat to the continued existence of Catholic Christianity.”

    No historical support for this at all. Except for Louisiana, the number of Catholics in the Confederacy was quite small, and their political opinions tended to mirror the dominant opinions of the areas in which they settled, which meant throughout most of the South they were pro-Secession and pro-Slavery.

    “Slavery was in the mix, but was far from being the only motivation for secession.”

    No slavery: no secession. The myth that there were other issues that led to secession is a post war creation when few white Southerners were willing to admit, as they had freely at the beginning of the War, that secession was all about slavery.

  • Rather than offend you further, I’ll leave you to your beliefs. God bless.

  • I am never offended John when debating History. God bless you.

PopeWatch: Bear Growls

Friday, May 29, AD 2015

VATICAN-POPE-AUDIENCE

 

Saint Corbinian’s Bear has an explanation as to why the Pope was silent on the Irish vote on homosexual marriage:

Souls? If you put a gun to the Bear’s head (and you wouldn’t be the first) and asked him who, exactly, Pope Francis believes is on the path to salvation, this most Catholic Bear would have to confess he has no idea what self-proclaimed “loyal son of the Church” Francis believes. His public statements are often little better than a word salad of liberal soundbytes. When he recently tried to make a point about first-worlders wasting money on pets and makeup, his statistics were, to put it nicely, made up. (Or maybe he got them from La Repubblica, the far-left newspaper that is his only source of news.)

In three years your confession will be: “bless me Father, I have sinned. My carbon footprint grew by twenty meters. And I have a Golden Retriever.” Don’t bother with sins of the flesh. After sodomy was normalized they said, “What the Hell. God doesn’t care about that stuff.”
 
It must be exhilarating to take over a Church with no credibility, from an unpopular pope, and overnight turn it into a powerhouse of legitimacy courted by the movers and shakers of the world. What a sore temptation it must be to learn that you can get your face on the cover of the Rolling Stone by simply dropping an ambiguous statement about homosexuality. Obama just held him up as an example!
Back to Homosexuals
 
The Bear wishes he could forget about homosexuals, but here’s the thing. The Bear doesn’t really care what 1-2% of the population does to achieve sexual release. They’re not driving this derangement. 
After civil rights, and gender equality, someone had the stroke of infernal genius to hammer homosexuality’s square peg into the round hole of civil rights. Once gay rights was out of the closet and into the noble tradition of Dr. Martin Luther King, it all fell into place. To oppose it was not merely mistaken, but evil. Haters were beyond the pale of polite society. Soon the law will provide no wall for the normal to take cover behind. Most of this isn’t so much pro-homosexual as anti-Christian.
If the Pope is really all that popular, why isn’t he mounting the counterattack?
Easy. That popularity comes at a price. The referendum in Ireland? Did you find it odd that there was not a peep from the Vatican? The only way Pope Francis keeps his seat at the table is by going along with the world. Christians who fight are going to be mercilessly suppressed. The Church wants the Prince of the World’s favor right now. That’s why it will bend over backwards to accommodate the sin of Sodom.
In the great Christian classic Pilgrim’s Progress (yes, the Bear knows it isn’t Catholic, but he still likes it) there are two allegorical characters that the Bear is thinking of, Mr. By-Ends and one Mr. Worldly Wiseman. Mr. By-Ends sees religion as a means to an end, and does quite well for himself trimming his sails with changes in beliefs. One Mr. Worldly Wiseman keeps busy about his practical affairs and leads a well-ordered “religious” life quite subordinated to the world.
These gentlemen are in charge. Homosexuals first undermined the Church by their abusivness, and then were held out as the way for it to make its peace with a wicked generation. How sick is that?

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73 Responses to PopeWatch: Bear Growls

  • ” In this pontificate the Church has been neutered as a problem for the left.”

    I would be more open and also including the right. That very large number of “conservatives” who shout, “Stay out of my bedroom” or, “Let’s deal with economics and taxes and leave the “social issues” out of this election until after we win.” come to mind.
    I refer to the latter as the Judas-wing of the GOP. the former, well, perhaps they are counting on the “pastoral virus” to save them.

  • “The Bear wishes he could forget about homosexuals, but here’s the thing. The Bear doesn’t really care what 1-2% of the population does to achieve sexual release. They’re not driving this derangement. ”

    This is what boggles my mind; the Irish vote, the money poured into the campaign, the media coverage all for the roughly 92,000 Irish sodomites (2% of 4.6 million). Most of them don’t truly have an interest in marriage-just like the rest of secular society.

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  • The Vatican issued a statement saying it was a defeat for humanity.

    You forgot to mention that part.

    But other than that, they have remained awfully quiet. They are too busy being loved by the world. And besides, our new Pope is against rules anyway, so who is he to judge?

  • Gersobyn, yest that was Parolin. But still not a word from the Vicar of Christ regarding the apostasy of one of the Church’s greatest nations. At least Pope Benedict issued a warning to Ireland and visited the country of what was once “saints and scholars”. What is Pope Francis afraid of? The degenerates?

  • The Irish ought to keep a wary eye on the sea.

  • Yes, Card Parolin’s virtually pro forma, defeatist statement after the Irish vote was reminiscent of Goering’s Luftwaffe flying two FW-190 fighters over the Normandy beaches on D-Day: When the wing commander of the pitiable effort landed, he allegedly said to his confrere(verbatim), “Well, that is the presence of the fabled Luftwaffe over the landings.”

    The Bergoglio-Vatican effort, of course in another defeat, was beyond appalling for a papacy that has redefined the term. “Well, that is the presence of the fabled Vatican in our world today.”

  • @William P. Walsh: The Irish ought to keep a wary eye on the sea.
    Too late, the sea [of evil, worse than paganism] has swamped them.
    *
    The cardinal, in his strongly worded statement, added: “I believe that we are talking here not just about a defeat for Christian principles, but also about a defeat for humanity.”
    *
    Humanity? No reference to God or to the eternal salvation of souls?
    *
    Contrast with:

    Ireland has gone further than paganism and “defied God” by legalising gay marriage, one of the Church’s most senior cardinals has said.
    Cardinal Raymond Burke, who was recently moved from a senior role in the Vatican to be patron of the Order of Malta, told the Newman Society, Oxford University’s Catholic Society, last night that he struggled to understand “any nation redefining marriage”.
    Visibly moved, he went on: “I mean, this is a defiance of God. It’s just incredible. Pagans may have tolerated homosexual behaviours, they never dared to say this was marriage.” – Cardinal Raymond Burke, http://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/2108/0/ireland-is-worse-than-the-pagans-for-legalising-gay-marriage-says-senior-cardinal

  • I admit I have no problem with the silence. The truth is I have always seen the same sex marriage debate as two questions…can the Church allow it, and should the State allow it. One can honestly hold the view that the Catholic Church can never change but that it’s a nice thing for the State to allow. If I discovered I had attractions to people of my own sex, I would not act on them, even remaining single forever if I had to. But, I say “sure” to nations leglizing it. Along with other things it helps us provide homes for kids fro broken families, and frankly just sounds like a nice gesture.

    I don’t buy that it somehow damages kids. You kind of go through a moment where you wish you had a mom and a dad? Kids with a parent dead or divorced parents do that. And while I don’t want the Church to change its views on divorce, I will say that even if kids are sad in all 3 circumstances above, they get over it.

  • “One can honestly hold the view that the Catholic Church can never change but that it’s a nice thing for the State to allow.”

    Which suddenly we discover for the first time in recorded history. The idea that this will all stop with a few sexually confused people getting hitched by bored magistrates and that the Church can go merrily on her way, could only be said by someone who hasn’t been paying attention to the goals of the gay activists which is clearly for all institutions to be forced to give complete approval to what the Church has always regarded as a mortal sin.

  • I’m fully confident that we will never get to a point where the State is appointing priests. Does this mean we will get to a day when the Church takes no money from the feds, something I think you have written about? Possibly. And being someone who passionatly believes in the iron Seperation of Church and State, to the point I think Britain’s system is frankly not good enough, that doesn’t seem like such an awful thing. I have heard of some locations going nuts and violating the Church’s freedoms, but I am confident that both the courts and popular outrage whenever we hear of these stories will ensure that priests are not going to have to fear for their lives for stating the Church can never change anytime soon.

  • Frankly, if I were a priest, I would simply state on the subject…..”I’m sorry, but the Church cannot change on this topic”, while waging war against parents throwing their kids out, actual bullying, people getting fired fromantic secular jobs for being LGBT, and would honestly tell parents to just suck it up and go to a same sex wedding their kids had with their partners, and if it’s in a church….just don’t take communion.

  • “I’m fully confident that we will never get to a point where the State is appointing priests.”

    Precisely the same thing was said some thirty years ago in regard to gay marriage. The gay activists are at war with anything that stands in their way of the complete social acceptance of gay sex and the Catholic Church is most certainly in that category. Pressure on the Church will continually ratchet up until the gay activists are defeated, religious freedom ends or a Muslim takeover of a completely decadent West.

  • We have the 1st amendment

  • “and would honestly tell parents to just suck it up and go to a same sex wedding their kids had with their partners, and if it’s in a church….just don’t take communion.”

    In other words pretend that a child enmeshed in mortal sin, and risking Hell, is not in such jeopardy. As a father I regard such advice as completely mistaken.

  • “We have the 1st amendment”

    A legal system that can read a right to abortion into a Constitution that says zip about abortion can do wonders to the text of any portion of the Constitution.

  • The first amendment is pretty explicit on religious freedom.

    Regarding what I would say as a priest…..it’s also a matter of tactics. I wouldn’t disown my kid for leaving catholicism for instance. I believe ours is the one true chuech, but Im likely to drive them away from the Church if I try and force it.

    Its like with sex….the tactic I would adopt with my teen kids would be forbid it till the age of consent in whatever state we were living in, and once they hit that point……what they did outside the house was their business but they are forbidden from having president martial sex in my house. Not because I approve of premarital sex…..which I dont……but as a tactic.

  • Premarital* blasted auto correct

  • When we receive the Sacrament of Penance, it is a private affair. Matrimony is a public affair and those who attend demonstrate their approval and affirmation of the union of the betrothed. I can neither approve nor affirm a decision contrary to the will of God so I would not attend. May I quote a part of Father Rutler’s column for this Sunday?

    ” The landslide vote in Eire for legalizing the fictitious form of marriage between persons of the same sex, in contradiction of all laws natural and divine, unearths the pulsating Druidism that Saint Patrick and his fellow saints defied.”

  • Like I said, not going could end up making your child bitter. It won’t neccesarily actually convince them of anything, but to hate what they perceive the Roman Catholic Church as demanding. Sometimes, the best form of witness is to just say nothing. Besides, if your child converted to another faith, or became an athiest and married in a courthouse, would you not attend?

  • To a certain degree, the fate of your child’s soul is in God’s hands and there is nothing you can do but follow God’s commands in your own life.

  • J.S. Person, you ask, “Besides, if your child converted to another faith, or became an athiest and married in a courthouse, would you not attend?” I answer, these are situations which fall under a requirement for kind interpretation and assumption of another’s honesty, that they are acting sincerely according to the light they have, even if in error. Calling sodomy marriage is entirely another thing. Another matter for my consideration is being a lector in our parish places a greater burden upon me than falls on a more anonymous occupant of the pews, not that I am better than anyone but more visible. Woe to them through whom scandals come.

  • I don’t see the difference between the two.

  • “To a certain degree, the fate of your child’s soul is in God’s hands and there is nothing you can do but follow God’s commands in your own life.”

    The child’s soul is in his or her hands as to the soul’s ultimate destination, and it is a parent’s duty to point out when a child is engaging in conduct that is harmful to his or her soul, just the same as if the child is engaging in conduct harmful to the body. The child may not listen, at least immediately, but the love that a parent has for a child requires that the attempt be made.

  • But there are also more effective ways to evangelize, depending on the circumstance.

  • Evangelization can proceed on multiple tracks, but ignoring sin is never a successful technique on any of them.

  • I have friends who are not Catholic, and who believe premarital sex is ok. Am I bound to tell them not too? Or in that case, is it better to just say nothing to encourage them, but not to verbally harp on them to stop? Because in that case, I would argue it’s better to just say nothing.

  • J.S Person: “I don’t see the difference between the two.” The difference is that while Catholics, Protestants, Jews and atheists are capable of entering into marriage, persons of the same sex are not.

  • “I have friends who are not Catholic, and who believe premarital sex is ok.”

    Friends are not children, the same duty would not exist. However, if they are friends that you care deeply about, you might want to mention to them that sin is not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact.

  • William: Why? I am not questioning the Catholic definition of marriage. But I am saying this….let us step into the mind of someone who is not Catholic. Let’s say they are either liberal theologically, whether Protestant or otherwise, don’t believe, or are simoly a passionate beliver in separation of church and state. They might argue….yes the definition of marriage throughout European history, and for those around the world who could not afford poligamy, might have always been one man one woman. But why not change it if we want to? The person liberal theologically might just say it’s just something like all those other rules of the old testament we don’t live by any more. And frankly, I dont see how you can’t argue that not being in the right faith is somehow less rebelious. You could just as easily argue that someone raised on a more Liberal theological approach to all the bible might be “innocent”. Or at least no more “guilty” in today’s world than someone who belongs to a different religion or Christian denomination.

  • Donald: The thing is, I am a passionate beliver in freedom of religion and Separation of Church and State. I am not implying others arent, but I am stating I intend to make sure I extend that freedom to how my wife and I raise any children we someday have.

  • “Donald: The thing is, I am a passionate beliver in freedom of religion and Separation of Church and State.”

    Freedom of religion has never meant freedom to sin as the Mormons found out in the 19th Century. Individuals, groups and states may call sin not-sin, but the reality remains.

  • And yet, neither of us would support making it illegal to have premarital sex, or to have a long term partner of the same sex…..right?

    The point is, sometimes people must be left to make their own mistakes, and maybe to get away with them in this life, with their fates ultimatly decided by God when they die. And as far as the state providing benefits to couples in arrangemeets our Church cannot consider ok…..for me, I have always seen the State as an alliance of sorts between various factions, with the national government as mediator and peace keeper. So it can do things religions cant in the name of peace, freedom, prosperity. Obviously I would NEVER support legalizing human sacrifice. But same sex marriage doesn’t involve killing, or even hurting anyone.

  • To quote (or possibly paraphrase, I hope the wording is close to exact) Charles Krauthammer, “I am not going to any barricades” to stop this.

  • “And yet, neither of us would support making it illegal to have premarital sex, or to have a long term partner of the same sex…..right?”

    Both were illegal until the day before yesterday in historical terms. That didn’t begin to change until the misbegotten sixties of the last century. The usual argument against such laws is a diffuse “right to privacy” which can be used to protect virtually any conduct. Legislators and judges have applied such an argument to sex, but strangely do not apply it to holding gold, owning firearms, and a whole host of areas of private conduct heavily regulated by the State. The simple truth is that sexual libertinism was not regarded as having anything to do with freedom outside of cranks, until post World War II. It is the product of wealth and decadence in the West, and decadent societies usually embrace sexual deviations on their way down.

  • Krauthammer is a social liberal.

  • It was a mistake for the above mentioned to be illegal. Yes the prohibitions might have had long histories…but so have a lot of practices it was good to be rid off. The barricades comment? I ABSOLUTELY would go to them to stop those things from being made illegal.

    Whether with booze, drugs, or sex in situations between consenting adults that our Church has and will always say is wrong……I generally take the line that you shouldn’t criminalize non violent sin. Let the Church leaders shame it, but secular society should stay out of it. Besides, to get involved is a waste of the government’s time, resources, and money.

  • Which means ultimately, it’s a waste of our money

  • “It was a mistake for the above mentioned to be illegal. Yes the prohibitions might have had long histories”

    Did have very long histories, as long as recorded history. Societies are always going to regulate sexual conduct and I find it amusing that those trying to regulate sexual conduct the most these days are those on the deranged left. The regulations they propose are absurd, but they are correct that the lack of regulation in this area currently will not endure.

    “I generally take the line that you shouldn’t criminalize non violent sin.”

    Then you oppose laws against forgery? Bigamy? Public drunkenness? Public urination? There are endless laws which criminalize non-violent sin, libertarian fantasies notwithstanding, and such laws will always be part of any human polity.

  • I said genreally. Perhaps I should rephrase…..non violent sin that does not hurt people. Forgery is stealing. Other stuff has various justifications. But how exactly is consensual sex between adults in their own homes hurting anyone? Getting married brings practical benifits, and certainly creates environments that can help with kids from broken homes (see earlier comments about kids getting over not having a married mom and dad), so it’s no skin off society’s nose as long as he faith communities are left alone.

  • I should also point out I oppose insest, and don’t want that legalized anytime soon. In fact, in my view, the wisest thing many conservative groups could do now would be to unite in proposing a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between two people who not are not immediate family. A one man one wo an amendment would never pass, but there is enough unity right now on insest being bad and keeping marriage between two people that I bet you could get such an amendment passed, drawing the line.

  • J.S. Person et al: In the recent past, various acts were illegal, including adultery, sodomy and fornication. These were deemed to be harmful to society, and indeed they are. These acts are now “legal” but still harmful to society. Will we soon see bestiality, pederasty and rape added to the list? This speculation aside, no one here is proposing that homosexual activity be again made a crime. What we object to is the elevation of it to an act approved, benefited, encouraged, lauded, licensed, praised, regulated and sanctioned by the state. The next step would be to force participation by the churches and synagogues. While we debate the matter as an issue of faith and morals particular to our faith, do not lose sight of the diabolical conspiracy aimed at the destruction of all faith.

  • “But how exactly is consensual sex between adults in their own homes hurting anyone?”

    I do wish you could sit in on some of my paternity cases. People playing house rarely consider the kids they may bring into the world. Then we have the kids growing up frequently with no fathers. Fornication is one of the more harmful sins in practical terms in my opinion.

  • “We have the 1st Amendment.” LOL

  • JS Person- all this discussion is not theoretical for me, as I am the parent in the situations you have described.
    I did not go to the wedding, Most of our extended family and some of our children did. I continue to pray that our son and his partner will both repent and come back to God and the Church. We are in close contact, sadly maybe (probably) a lot because of our family business. I like to hope that if we did not work together he would still stay close, despite the huge dragon always in the living room.
    I want to tell you that the situation is not one that only harms the participants in the gay union .. young nephews, brothers and sisters are hurt to name a few. The youngest are already getting the messages from the world that their parents and grandparents are just living in the hateful past and are to be tolerated, because they (we) can’t help it- being Catholic.
    …The dragon has a razor sharp tail. Our belief that our son and brother has cut himself off from his relationship with the Lord, bringing eternal suffering upon himself, is painful constantly. Our son studied at the very pontifical university where this last week a so-called “secret” meeting was held, hosted by the German Cardinal Marx. So my own struggle with anger at some churchmen and silly nuns grows. The rest of the family and his dad and I struggle with what-in-the-world influenced him when he lived and studied in Rome.
    As you may know the famous “sex scandals” in the Church are better labeled “homosex scandals”.
    In our family, we all struggle with hurt and anger and confusion.
    .
    As for your contention that being reared in single sex homes doesn’t hurt the children- you should read “Jeptha’s Daughters” and other books and essays by kids who have been there and done that. I dread the day that might happen in our family and struggle to begin to think how we can deal with that next slide down without losing our grip on hope.

  • Anzlyne: what you said about what the youngsters are being taught….that proves my point from above. Not going did nothing. Frankly, I argue the solution I proposed above when talking about the advice I’d give if I were a priest, and how’d I react as a father, would have been more effective.

  • “Not going did nothing.”

    Oh yes it did. It told him that his parents actually believe the Faith in which they raised him, the Faith which, hopefully, he will one day return to. Bravo, Anzlyne! What you did was hard but necessary for your son.

  • And to the above listed studies…..I would 1st point out that the APA said everything was fine, the heritage one doesn’t prove there is a problem, simply thought the studies could have been done better, the Austin study was heavily criticized…..and frankly, I have my doubts about what a few, scattered studies may say…..especially from sources with an agenda. That the overwhelming scientific consensus rejects a few studies they have looked and and found flawed tells me more.

    Take the one CBS reported…..which mostly showed disfunctional homes are bad period. And whose to say some of the problems are not the result popular prejudice?

  • Donald: As opposed to going but, if it was in a church, not taking the eucharist? I suspect it did more heart hardening, frankly.

  • Also Donald, one could try and argue it wound be “neccesary” if a child raised Catholic became an athiest, heritic, or converted to another religion

  • “I suspect it did more heart hardening, frankly.”

    As opposed to pretending that everything is fine and wonderful? Gay marriage has nothing to do with marriage and everything to do with social acceptance of gay sex as good. Forcing relatives to participate in such appalling perversions of a Christian ceremony is all part of the strategy.

  • @Anzlyne: God bless you and yours! What testimony, which reminds me of noble Eleazar and his martyrdom [cf. 2 Macc 6:18-31 (RSVCE)]:

    […] When he had said this, he went at once to the rack. 29 And those who a little before had acted toward him with good will now changed to ill will, because the words he had uttered were in their opinion sheer madness. 30 When he was about to die under the blows, he groaned aloud and said: “It is clear to the LORD in his holy knowledge that, though I might have been saved from death, I am enduring terrible sufferings in my body under this beating, but in my soul I am glad to suffer these things because I fear him.” […]

    The LORD knows in his holy knowledge what you and your family suffer for his revered and holy laws and perhaps through them he will bring your son to his senses when he realises who it is that really and truly loves him.

  • I have a great idea. How about when our children are about to marry into a sinful situation, we bring the rest of the Catholic family to the church, dressed for the wedding and we all kneel down outside the wedding door and pray continuously during the ceremony for the salvation of their souls, obviously, in public, and when the service is over, we go the reception. Tell me what is wrong with that?

  • @J.S Person: But how exactly is consensual sex between adults in their own homes hurting anyone?
    *
    In this day and age, it is becoming increasingly difficult to make and have a sane argument … the level of delusion and confusion is amazing.
    *
    If those two people are not truly married to each other, let’s start with them hurting each other, their current or future families, and their current or future spouses and their families, and friends, etc. If baptized Christians, the damage reverberates throughout the Mystical body of Christ and from the teaching of Pope St. John Paul II, the human family is dragged down as well.

    To speak of social sin means in the first place to recognize that, by virtue of human solidarity which is as mysterious and intangible as it is real and concrete, each individual’s sin in some way affects others. This is the other aspect of that solidarity which on the religious level is developed in the profound and magnificent mystery of the communion of saints, thanks to which it has been possible to say that “every soul that rises above itself, raises up the world.” To this law of ascent there unfortunately corresponds the law of descent. Consequently one can speak of a communion of sin, whereby a soul that lowers itself through sin drags down with itself the church and, in some way, the whole world. In other words, there is no sin, not even the most intimate and secret one, the most strictly individual one, that exclusively concerns the person committing it. With greater or lesser violence, with greater or lesser harm, every sin has repercussions on the entire ecclesial body and the whole human family. According to this first meaning of the term, every sin can undoubtedly be considered as social sin. – John Paul II > Apostolic Exhortations > Reconciliatio et Paenitentia (December 2, 1984)

  • That can also be turned around and used to deny freedom of religion.

  • “I would 1st point out that the APA said everything was fine, the heritage one doesn’t prove there is a problem, simply thought the studies could have been done better…”

    No, the APA conclusion that everything is fine was based on studies that, as the Heritage report notes, were flawed on multiple levels including not having a control group and only using self reports. Thus, the APA did not have any definitive scientific reasons to reach its conclusions.

    “the Austin study was heavily criticized…..”

    The criticisms were about limitations that the author addressed in his own study. Review by several boards including the journal that published the article found the science was sound and did not withdraw its publication. Unlike this blatant lie pulled by Science:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3090452/Study-gay-marriage-opinions-retracted-graduate-assistant-faked-data.html

    “…and frankly, I have my doubts about what a few, scattered studies may say…..especially from sources with an agenda.”

    An ad hominem argument. If the data is invalid, then address it and not the sources. But you can’t. Though, using your same logic, studies that back gay parenting frequently have suspect sources.

    “That the overwhelming scientific consensus rejects a few studies they have looked and and found flawed tells me more.”

    Except the scientific consensus is based upon seriously flawed studies as the Heritage report notes. A lot of bad data doesn’t make the data better.

  • A link to an article that debunks the literature that the APA based its decision on”

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X12000580

  • Man is homo sapiens, one species. To include those souls who choose to go to hell is to violate their free will. God never contradicts Himself.

  • I am a passionate beliver in freedom of religion and Separation of Church and State. I am not implying others arent, but I am stating I intend to make sure I extend that freedom to how my wife and I raise any children we someday have.

    Hugo Black’s “Wall of Seperation” was intended by him to curtail access to the mainstream of American society to Catholics.

  • Yep, his defense of a priest killer in 1921 during which he made Klan signs to Klan members on the jury, and had a friend of his, also a Klansman, sitting as the judge in the trial, set the contours of his church-state jurisprudence.

    http://weldbham.com/blog/2014/08/05/murder-in-the-cathedral-birmingham/

  • That…is pretty bloody horryfying. However, an idea can still be good, even if born by bad people and at least initially in less than ideal circumstances.

    There is a purity of separation of faith and state. Purity in the idea of the various faiths having to wage “war” against each other for dominance without the aid of the government, but with prayer, writings, speeches, community outreach. The mingling breads the corruption of both. It can prove a danger for freedom of speech, and breed cynicism in the people towards the faith deemed too cushy with the government.

    That seperation is just one thing the USA is far superior at than Europe (though even here, there is room for improvement). France goes a bit too far with it. A general attitude of letting everyone compete and be free to compete is best.

  • @Donald R. McClarey: Thank you!
    *
    @J.S Person: what is true freedom of religion? What is your understanding?

  • True freedom of religion? The Government appoints no clergy. It suppresses no faith group (unless they promote some thing like human sacrifice, or otherwise engage in direct physical violence). Its constitution says nothing about the divine other than “freedom of religion” and “Separation of Church and state”. If a politician is religious and talks about it, great. If not, he or she is not obligated to defend it.

    I support the usa’s tax exempt status system….while also being ambivalent about state-church cooperation on various community development projects where money is theoretically available to multiple groups in some form.

    I think the French go too far with thier problems with religious symbol dispays, and view for instsnce having a problem with a woman who is Muslim voluntarily wearing the head coverings as unneccesary.

    But concordats? No support for those! No State (with the exception of Vatican City) should expressly declare itself for one faith or another. I suppose it’s tolerable for a State to go Britain’s route (if freedom promotion requires just compromising and accepting it) but personally, I view even the British arrangement as impure.

  • * minor correction….for politicians, I meant to say not obligated to have one, or to fake having one

  • @J.S Person: Thank you! Like I said, “in this day and age, it is becoming increasingly difficult to make and have a sane argument.
    *
    There is Good & Truth (=God). The state’s role ought to be to ensure as far as possible the common good – a word hardly in our conversation nowadays – of the society [cf. CCC 1898]. The best and successful society will be the one whose common good aligns with and is subordinate to, and follows the Good & Truth (=God).
    It follows then that the wisestate will not be indifferent to religion or no-religion [cf. the US Bill of Rights], but will seek to seek to uphold and promote
    true religion and discourage any and all forms of false religion [and yes no religion is a false religion, another lie from the father of lies].
    *
    Cf. on my blog The United States of America flawed from its inception. To me current “separation of Church and State” is fundamentally flawed and stems from the error of the Enlightenment.

  • FMShyanguya:

    What would your response be to each of these specific point:

    1. Theocracy breads corruption, both of clergy who became compromised in their ability to speak truth to power, and of state officials.
    2. Its somewhat hypocritical to be outraged when other faiths persecute you, and then persecute them
    3. Freedom of religon, and Seperation of faith and the state, can bread peace between people of different faiths, who otherwise would fear the other so much they would (and are, in so many parts of the world) fighting for their lives.
    4. Freedom of religon does not mean a moral right to error, but might more accurately be read…..Freedom from the state forcing religon on you at the point of the gun?
    5.there is something that seems…pure, poetic, and fitting…..to have “wars” between faiths without violence, where their maybe no consequences for choosing ge wrong faith in this world, but the consequences cone in the next life.

  • Finally….arguing that we Catholics would take away their freedom to worship…..that idea was used by people to oppress us Catholics in America’s past. So embracing “freedom from the government compelling you to a particular religion” and “the government and the constituion shall not declare for one faith or anohter” has a practical , survival value for us.

  • There is a purity of separation of faith and state. Purity in the idea of the various faiths having to wage “war” against each other for dominance without the aid of the government, but with prayer, writings, speeches, community outreach. The mingling breads the corruption of both. It can prove a danger for freedom of speech, and breed cynicism in the people towards the faith deemed too cushy with the government.

    All that competition might be deemed well and good for the state, and it might even be deemed good for religion, institutionally speaking, but is it good for faith itself?

    The religious wars of the sixteenth century preceeded the age of nlightenment, after all.

  • Faith must be allowed to grow, fade, and grow again without the state’s help. The people must in the end, decide whether to follow God or not. One can argue a society where most of the members lack faith is not a good thing, but it’s not the place of the state to mandate people attend this or that religious service, or they cannot build a house of worship for their group (even if we would consider it a bad faith) and certainly not the place of the state to mandate religious tests for government jobs, nor to arrest or fine those who preach their faith, no matter what we Catholics might think of said faith.

  • @J.S Person: You are Catholic? Good then we are having this discussion. Summary answer: Do I think there will ever be a perfect human state? No I do not think so and that’s why Jews wait for the Messiah and scripture prophesy of a stone cut out by no human hand which smites the image on its feet of iron and clay, and breaks them in pieces [which] are [then] carried away by the wind so that not a trace of them cannot be found. But the stone that struck the image becomes a great mountain and filled the whole earth. [Cf. Dn 2:34-35 (RSVCE)].
    *
    PS […] but it’s not the place of the state to mandate people attend this or that religious service, or they cannot build a house of worship for their group (even if we would consider it a bad faith) and certainly not the place of the state to mandate religious tests for government jobs, nor to arrest or fine those who preach their faith. I am not advocating for this at all. Man is free, created so by God, who prefers [and calls us to be] sons rather than slaves. A state, for that matter a good and just leader, – words again we fail to hear these days – the wise one, is the one who knows how to promote good [among them the true and right religion cf. King Cyrus] and limit/suppress evil, without compulsion upon those ruled.

Jesuitical 18: Saint Louis University and Father De Smet

Thursday, May 28, AD 2015

Father De Smet statue

 

Part 18 of my ongoing survey of the follies of many modern day Jesuits.  This story symbolizes the childish Leftism that is at the heart of much of modern Jesuitism:

Saint Louis University has removed a statue on its campus depicting a famous Jesuit missionary priest praying over American Indians after a cohort of students and faculty continued to complain the sculpture symbolized white supremacy, racism and colonialism.

Formerly placed outside the university’s Fusz Hall in the center of the private Catholic university, the statue will go to the university’s art museum, a building just north of the bustling urban campus.

The statue features famous Jesuit Missionary Pierre-Jean De Smet S.J. praying over two American Indians dressed in traditional clothing. Last Monday, just two days after graduation, it was removed from the location it has called home on campus for decades.

A university spokesperson told St. Louis Magazine the statue will be placed within the “historical context of a collection that’s on permanent display in our SLU Museum of Art.” The statue is set for the museum’s “Collection of the Western Jesuit Missions.”

“In more recent years, there have been some faculty and staff who have raised questions about whether the sculpture is culturally sensitive,” SLU spokesman Clayton Berry said.

Berry did not respond to The College Fix’s request for comment.

The De Smet statue has long drawn the ire of progressive students and scholars at the Jesuit university who argue the statue was a symbol of racism and white supremacy, among other oppressions.

In a recent op-ed published in SLU’s University News, senior Ryan McKinley stated the sculpture sent a clear, unwelcoming message to American Indians at Saint Louis University.

Go here to read the rest.  Obsessed with race?  Check.  White male bashing?  Check.  Ignorant of history?  Check.  Falling down before Leftist sacred cows?  Check.

Continue reading...

51 Responses to Jesuitical 18: Saint Louis University and Father De Smet

  • “The De Smet statue has long drawn the ire of progressive students and scholars at the Jesuit university ”
    .
    Golly. I hope they catch the guy that held the gun to their heads and forced them to matriculate there. (Or, was the statue just erected last year? -sarc)
    .
    (another excellent TAC post, BTW)

  • Should have left the ignorant ignorant of their ignorance. That was the culturally sensitive thing to do. After all, the first circle of hell can only be improved by having Pocahontas keeping company with VIrgil and Horace.

  • The American Indians were kneeling before the Crucifix with Jesus Christ. Since Jesus Christ has fallen into the politically incorrect with God, our Father and His, who would expect college faculty and graduate students to know anything about Catholicism. Father Isaac Jogues and the Blackrobes, Ren Goupil and John LaLande,were martyred and buried at Aurieville in New York for bringing Jesus Christ to the Native Americans.
    .
    For fear of ridicule, fear of persecution or ostracism and sometimes fear of knowing the truth, the Emperor is naked.

  • Pingback: Is This the Death of the Catholic Church in Ireland? - Big Pulpit
  • Nixon could go to China. Surely this Pope can suppress the Jesuits.

  • With few exceptions, the Jesuits are a dead order. What a terrible loss.

  • Pingback: Father Pierre DeSmet is a Hero | Solutio Problematis Omnes (aka "The Catholic Linker")
  • Wonderful story, thankyou.
    Have you read “Jesuits” by Malachi Martin S.J.?
    Explained a lot for me, especially about this goofy pope.

  • I have read all of Martin’s books. He was a good writer, and I think he captured the decay within the modern Jesuits, but everything he stated that he personally claims to have witnessed needs to be rigorously checked with other sources, as he was a fabulist of the first order, to put it politely.

  • Perhaps the Jesuit colleges and universities in the US should be investigated under the Rico statutes – they have a racket going by presenting themselves as Catholic schools.

  • In the 1980s, our Traditional Study Group was assisting at Mass in the Cathedral in Portland, Maine for the feast of the American Martyrs when the Priest denounced their racist mission and the conversions – and we immediately got up and walked out of the cathedral.

    We are at the abyss in the Catholic Church and another step may just send us into it.

    It is worth recalling that it is only The Holy See of peter which was promised it would never fail

  • I imagine the fell geniuses are drafting their next 15 ,000-word apology for bringing the natives to Christianity and the rewards of eternal life which Christ so dearly purchased for us with His Life, Death, and Resurrection.

  • Graduated from this institution and it was once a great school. Will no longer donate a penny. Sad!!

  • This essay should highly embarrass SLU. However, I doubt it will. Good work in any event.

  • This type article makes me say,” I wouldn’t send the proverbial “dog” to this or most “Catholic” colleges. Is there one that exists where this wouldnt have happened if the statue was on their campus? Is there ANY alternative?? America has a history of Catholic martyrs and Catholic priests who saved souls for Christ. Now this nutty college wants to diminish their efforts by historically stupid statements and actions therefrom. Christianity, brough to the US by Europeans, who were Protestant (and before that Catholic-influenced), developed our culture that has existed and has dominated from our founding. Here’s a “flash”—-I dont want it to change! I want it to dominate, to be the ideal…NOT other cultures or identities. And in the end it is all about politics….the libs support this anti-tradition culture entirely! Look at Obama and his efforts to trash the culture! And these people running the colleges. They are supported by tuition, grants, etc , and why any Catholic would send their kid to that dump is unknown ! Someone tell me—what stops this anti tradition movement? This anti white, at any and all cost, invention of false history? Do we have to sit and watch this happening? LETS GET SOME SOLUTIONS TO THIS AND STOP JUST TALKING ABOUT IT.If we dont, this will be a really hostile country to live in…because I for one will not allow it without a fight.

  • Can you publish links to the preceding 17 editions of Jesuitical? Thanks

  • Emigrating to the US in 1821 as part of his desire to serve as a missionary, De Smet entered the Jesuit novitiate at Whitemarsh, Maryland. In a move that today would have secularists screaming “Separation of Church and State!” and conspiracy buffs increasing the tin foil content of their hats, the US government subsidized a Jesuit mission being established in the new state of Missouri among the Indians. At the time the US government often did this for missionaries of many Christian denominations among the Indians

    Rather smart– makes it so they know where these groups are, and has a chance of making it so the local tribes are folks who will actually be able to make agreements with. (A constant source of friction was how the leaders of a tribe would make agreements…and the young thugs would ignore them, with no penalties. Cultural differences, like the idea of a harvest belonging to the folks who planted and tended it, rather than the ones who happened to be able to take it when it was ready; it’s actually a rather difficult bit of property theory if you don’t grow up with the assumption.)

  • Mary, you might enjoy the comment SuburbanBanshee made:
    So this is a famous, proactive moment of a triumph for lay catechists, for Native Americans evangelizing Native Americans, and for the reputation of Jesuits among Native Americans. It is Iroquois badassery, as well as a tribute to Nez Perces and Flatheads being on fire for Jesus, and persistent in trying to get a priest.

    Oh, but it’s racist. Because amazingly, Catholics kneel before the Cross.
    https://suburbanbanshee.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/jesuit-university-misunderstands-jesuit-history/

  • Bill–
    here’s the page for the “Jesuitical” tag, which has all but the first five articles. (which are no longer on the site, I think they fell victim to one of the moves)

    http://the-american-catholic.com/tag/jesuitical/

  • Here you go Bill:

    http://the-american-catholic.com/page/1/?s=jesuitical

    Foxfier already did it! She is correct that the first four seem to fallen off the net when we moved the blog.

  • either slu is not doing a very good job of educating its students; or, placing reality in its proper context is beyond the ability of some people.

    why the administration surrendered is a good question. probably they just did not want the publicity the protestors were creating.

    hopefully, those in charge of the college will evaluate why so many of their students and professors are incapable of placing reality in its proper context.

    it is an absurdity to classify preaching the gospel as racist or supremacist. the fact that professors and students at slu are ignorant of this is an indictment of the inefficacy of the university.

  • This country need to promote her saints – through the Church process of recognition, and through the public proclamation of their deeds. We need shrines and relics, and our own tradition of pilgrimage. It’s good that this country has a genuine, how-the-word-is-supposed-to-be-used diversity of Catholic traditions from the various lands of immigration, but we also have a claim as a Catholic country ourselves. Every diocese should have a Cabrini or Seton parish. Regions should have their regional saints. Kateri should be as common a name in the US as Patrick is in Ireland. I mean no disrespect to those who are devoted to Our Lady through her miracle in Guadalupe, or to Catholics (myself included) who practice traditional devotions with foreign origins. But is there an American Catholic custom? A sacramental? Something that reflects our faith? Is there any country anywhere near our size that doesn’t have one? I can think of one such tradition we have – prayer in front of abortion clinics. It does fit our American spirit; it’s ecumenical and an act of civil protest, and it does point to the Catholic Church in America’s role as a how-the-word-is-supposed-to-be-used minority voice. But are there any others?

  • Actually, Kateri as a given name is trending up a bit. Over the last few years, there have been about 60 American girls a year given the name Kateri, For at least ten years before that, about 30-40 US girls a year have been named Kateri. Not super popular, but not bad.

    Seton has a little bit of life as a boy’s name, recently. Probably because of Seton Hall sports.

    Genesis has popped up into the top 50 girl’s names. I wonder if it’s a Bible class thing, or because of sounding like a Jennifer name? Trinity is also still pretty high.

    Luna has popped up quite a lot, which I attribute to My Little Pony. But it is a lovely name. There is an old martyrology that lists St. Luna Mista, which is probably a miscopying of St. Summista, but there’s no story that we know about her either way! 🙂

  • Luna Lovegood was a character in Harry Potter. I think that the name Harry also had a bump in popularity. I’m going to guess that Albus and Draco were still too much of a stretch.

  • Foxfier & the Man himself, Donald.
    Thank you.
    Can I rent you guys for other projects?
    Bill

  • They will also probably have to rip out the iconography of St. Louis Cathedral which, as I recall, also depicts Catholic missionaries in the Americas.

  • But the university is planning a monument to honor Michael Brown, so there’s that.

    Saint Louis University to erect monument honoring anti-police protest
    http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/21099/

    It’s really coming faster now, isn’t it?

  • note to self: don’t let kids apply to SLU

  • Seems as though the Swiss Bishops and SLU are drinking from the kool-aid.
    Pathetic bunch.

  • Like Ray, as a former SLU student, now-alumnus, I used to walk past this [once-inspiring] statue group on W Pine Ave: the inscription on the wall read, “Where the rivers met, De Smet began,” memorializing his epic travels of evangelization into unimaginably dangerous territories.

    I knew even then one day this group of statues was going to come down, listening to the socialists teaching throughout the university then (80’s,90’s), as I walked back and forth each day.

    So, I propose completing the epigram for posterity: “Where the rivers met, De Smet began; since then, the Jesuits have cut and run”

  • Thank you, Foxfier. I have read the piece and commented. The young savages are removing any sign of Faith by hurling invectives, “white supremacists”, “racists” and imposing their version of atheism and tyranny, bullying decent people into their version of our religion. The savages ought to have been called up on it to prove “white supremacists’ and ‘racists”, if only to display their ignorance of our history.

  • Carissimi,
    I tried dissolving the Jesuit Order and give all their properties, missions, and assets to the Franciscans, but the Franciscans refused. They would rather stay poor and save their souls.

  • Carissimi,
    Pray for me. Thank you.

  • I graduated from SLU Law in 1987. To say that the experience was interesting is to acknowledge the meanness of the old curse, “may you live in interesting times.”

    I was, then and now, pro-life. In fact, my matriculation at the Law School was delayed due to the need to complete a law suit filed against me by an abortionist who didn’t care for picketers and prayers in front of his center. Attending the Law School introduced me to the concept of Catholic in name only. Just before my start, the undergraduate college had been scandalized when a resident assistant brought a Planned Parenthood representative in for a talk with students.

    The levels of hostility and loathing varied, but were cresting in and around the Women’s Law Caucus who, in a way quite similar to the current controversy, could only see opposition to abortion as oppression of women. My years there culminated with a visit in an ass. dean’s office following a complaint about a poster I’d put on the student bulletin board excoriating the Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights. The ass. dean told me that my act was “the most unprofessional act” at the law school in his experience. I thought it odd because our class was still chuckling or pained (depending on who you were) at the incident two weeks earlier when two classmates were caught “in flagrante delicto” on a class room floor by an evening adjunct professor. The adjunct opened the door and flipped on the lights before the two could get entirely disentangled and clothed.

    While attending, I knew of, and celebrated, the Native American heritage that came to me through my paternal grandmother. I did not know, through that same grandmother, that, by Jim Crow standards, I was an Octaroon, as my great grandfather was African American.

    I lived on campus, in married student housing. I participated in law school events. I never saw the statue of Father De Smet. I have seen the photograph now that the statue has been hidden away from public display.

    What a bizarre world we live in. A man of faith spends his life propagating that faith. A university sets up a statue to honor that man, a member of the Jesuit community, because of that dedication.

    Nothing about such behavior screams racism, imperialism, colonialism. It does scream compassion-ism. It does scream care-ism. It does scream kindness-ism. Those “-isms” are not so very popular these days, but grudge-ism and victim-ism seemed to have made an advance at my alma mater.

    If you doubt me on how De Smet’s evangelical outreach constitutes kindness and care, I’ll refer you to Penn Jillette, who tells the story of being given the gift of a Bible by a concerned Christian. Jillette, an ardent atheist, expressed profound respect that a person who literally believed Jillette’s soul was in danger actually acted on that belief in an effort to render aid to him. Jillette tells the story on his YouTube channel if you care to see it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6md638smQd8)

    The statue of De Smet, if it is a symbol of a “history of colonialism, imperialism, racism and of Christian and white supremacy,” as Ryan McKinley complained, is no more so such a symbol than that much more obvious and noticeable one, College Church.

    When will that vestige of colonialism be taken down, or converted to a museum?

  • Brilliant comment James. When I was at the U of I Law School in 1979-1982 I was known as the outspoken conservative. I helped found the Christian Legal Society chapter there and continued my activities with the student pro-life group, Life Is For Everyone, that I helped found as an undergrad. I think I would have received more flack from students and faculty except that it was assumed I was a lost cause and that arguing with me was an exercise in futility. I was voted most likely to sentence someone to death for illegal parking, a distinction I cherish a third of a century later, especially considering my many years of criminal defense work!

  • Interesting title for the assistant dean (the “ass.dean”), JMH. I think his/her brethren staffed several other departments and teaching positions @ SLU also.

    For those alumni possibly interested, the statuary group used to be in front of Fusz Hall at 3700 W Pine Bl, between Spring and Vandeventer (perhaps for Billiken alumni to lay flowers for the memory of Pere De Smet). W Pine was not a busy street, because it dead-ended at that time at Spring. Now it is engulfed within the U. campus. But it was an imposing group, and also must have cost some serious coin in the day. It got your attention. That is bad.

    The chapel at the same address, which used to have Sunday Masses, and was open to the public, has now been turned into the “Museum of Contemporary Religious Art”: because, soon, all religious images will only belong in a museum, of course.

    I am waiting for the next time I go back and imposing French gothic St Francis Xavier (“College”) Church, the official parish and campus church, to be turned into a museum. Or maybe a coffee haus.

    However, regardless, for socialists, re. the De Smet statuary group, the very image of the Church Militant is something that must be leveled.

    “Forward, kameraden!”

  • How my heart grieves because of the lack of knowledge & godly wisdom/understanding these modern day fools in our so called “institutions of higher learning” exhibit regarding Heros of the faith & the spreading of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Hosea 4:6 “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.”

    Romans 1: “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.”

  • “LETS GET SOME SOLUTIONS TO THIS AND STOP JUST TALKING ABOUT IT.If we dont, this will be a really hostile country to live in…because I for one will not allow it without a fight.”

    I am working on that right now. Apart from the rare radical conversion as an adult, if most people reach the college age without a meaningful relationship with God–having learned to depend on Him in a practical manner and having not experienced their need of His caring for them–they are often forever lost to the cause. I have concluded that it simply is not possible to reform the corrupt systems currently in place. We simply must begin with new uncorrupted systems and teach a godly remnant–so that truth is not lost from living memory. I will be able to retire from my current job in 6 years & an already have taken some actions toward setting a specific plan in motion. It has never been easier to teach and provide info to people than it is now with the technology that we have at our finger tips. I do not want to put all if my thoughts on this in a public forum as Indint want the liberals to be given a heads up. I feel a specific leading from God in this area. Please allow me to encourage you to pray and ask God to show you specifically what you can do to help save a Godly remnant. He is faithful and will show you for sure.

  • Sign this urgent protest to SLU — urge them to return the statue to its proper place.
    Enough political correctness already. Sign the protest here:
    http://www.tfpstudentaction.org/saint-louis-university-de-smet-statue-protest.html

    God bless.

  • Thank you, John R, I signed the aforementioned petition: the goal is 20,000, and they are just short of 5000 right now…not bad for such a short amount of time. I wonder if they talked to anyone about this before they just did it.

    Ugh, the socialists HATE confrontation—-that is, confrontation that THEY haven’t initiated. Let’s see where it goes. I will write about it on my next SLU fundraiser e-mail and letter(s) I expect soon.

  • Just signed the petition as well.

    Saturday tfp is holding emergency Rosary Rallies across America to ask divine assistance regarding the upcoming Supreme Court ruling on so-called same sex marriage.

    Saturday June 13th at noon.

    Did Ireland upset you?
    If so take time to gather at one of the sites on the 13th, ( feast of Marys Immaculate Heart ) and publicly ask God for help.

    Can you imagine Priests being told they Have To officiate at a same sex wedding?
    Unimaginable right?
    Please consider helping by having your own rally. Visit America Needs Fatima site for details.

  • Yes, Ireland’s vote upset me. And I think back to the consequences of PF’s foolish and ill-manner comments about Catholics being “obsessed” with abortion, homosexual marriage, and contraception (Sept 19, 2013, America magazine interview).

    Since then, for example, the Illinois state legislature quoted him in their justification for passing a gay marriage act, Sr. Jane Laurel, OP, has been forced out of her work as a Catholic high school teacher, and here in San Franpsycho, Arbp. Salvatore Cordileone is being directly controverted by powerful forces appealing to PF to remove Cordileone from office for being “insensitive” and not reflecting the new papal stance on acceptance and tolerance. NYTimes apostate Catholic Frank Bruni writes (May 27, 2015), “On Same-Sex Marriage, Catholics are Leading the Way:” he got your memo, PF! And of course, then there is Ireland. It is hard to fathom how in two years, Pope Chaos has catalyzed so much collapse. Well done good and faithful servant!

    Usquequo, Domine?

  • Steve Phoenixtop.

    I feel your pain..seriously!
    It’s interesting that todays memorial is dedicated to Saint Charles Lwanga & Companions. Why?
    Because they were put to death by a king who was a homosexual. They tried to reason with him, never backing down from teaching the truth, and the king became frustrated with them. He wouldn’t renounce his lust for same-sex partners and killed St. Charles and companions.

    We faithful must remember we are in the company of the holy Saints and Angels as we face todays homosexual kings queens and henchmen.
    We too must speak the truth to them.
    We too will face frustrated opponents that would love to shut us down, even stepping on Our Religious Freedoms to help soothe their disfigured consciences.

    We must take a stand! We must be willing to stand in public and speak the truth.

    Please consider this an invitation to honor Our God and His commandments.
    Please stand up on Saturday the 13th of June.
    I am the Rally Capt. for our small town in Northern Michigan. I ask you to become one in your town. It’s easy. It’s a step into the breach.

  • The Rally info. is; http://www.americaneedsfatima.org/forms/webmc156.html

    With St. Charles and companions…Gods Speed to you.

  • Last one.

    http://www.ANF.org

    I apologize for my incompetence on this link up.
    God bless you.

  • I had read the College Fix article and immediately contacted the SLU President. Would have contacted Trustees had I been able to find their email info. Received a particularly lame and pathetic excuse of an email response so sent a letter to the editor of the St. Lewis Post-Dispatch. Asked others to contact the university president too. So after all that it was a real pleasure to come across this excellent article that detailed the Father’s life. Sent it to the college president, told him he needed a lesson in history before bowing before the Marxist influence at the college he leads.

PopeWatch: Is the Schism Here?

Thursday, May 28, AD 2015

VATICAN-POPE-AUDIENCE

 

PopeWatch is beginning to fear that it is no longer a question of whether there will be a major schism in the current pontificate but rather a question of when.  Steve Skojec at One Peter Five believes the schism may already have started:

I was reading an article thisKasper-und-Marx-die-Gesichter-der-deutschen-Kirche1-300x216 evening at the National Catholic Register about the secret meeting (the one I told you about last Friday) in Rome yesterday in advance of the second half of the Synod. The article was so good, the reporting was so thorough, I said to myself, “This must be the work of Edward Pentin.” I scrolled back to the byline, and so it was.

You see, Edward Pentin is the same man who caught Cardinal Kasper’s racist remarks, then proved that they had actually happened when Kasper denied them by producing the audio file. He’s also the man who did the lion’s share of the the investigative journalism on the Great Catholic Book Heist of 2014 – the disappearance of some 200 copies of Remaining in the Truth of Christ that disappeared from the mailboxes of Synod fathers last October, allegedly at the hands of Cardinal Baldisseri, the pope’s hand-picked Secretary General of the Synod.

In other words: he’s doing the Lord’s work as he uncovers much of the conniving going on in the episcopacy with the aim of undermining the Sixth Commandment.

But I digress. The line in the sand I was talking about? Well, here it is:

A one-day study meeting — open only to a select group of individuals — took place at the Pontifical Gregorian University on Monday with the aim of urging “pastoral innovations” at the upcoming Synod of Bishops on the Family in October.

Around 50 participants, including bishops, theologians and media representatives, took part in the gathering, at the invitation of the presidents of the bishops’ conferences of Germany, Switzerland and France — Cardinal Reinhard Marx, Bishop Markus Büchel and Archbishop Georges Pontier.

One of the key topics discussed at the closed-door meeting was how the Church could better welcome those in stable same-sex unions, and reportedly “no one” opposed such unions being recognized as valid by the Church.

Participants also spoke of the need to “develop” the Church’s teaching on human sexuality and called not for a theology of the body, as famously taught by St. John Paul II, but the development of a “theology of love.”

One Swiss priest discussed the “importance of the human sex drive,” while another participant, talking about holy Communion for remarried divorcees, asked: “How can we deny it, as though it were a punishment for the people who have failed and found a new partner with whom to start a new life?”

Marco Ansaldo, a reporter for the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica, who was present at the meeting, said the words seemed “revolutionary, uttered by clergymen.”

French Biblicist and Ratzinger Prize-winner Anne-Marie Pelletier praised the dialogue that took place between theologians and bishops as a “real sign of the times.” According to La Stampa, another Italian daily newspaper, Pelletier said the Church needs to enter into “a dynamic of mutual listening,” in which the magisterium continues to guide consciences, but she believes it can only effectively do so if it “echoes the words of the baptized.”

The meeting took the “risk of the new, in fidelity with Christ,” she claimed. The article also quoted a participant as saying the synod would be a “failure” if it simply continued to affirm what the Church has always taught.

The closed-door meeting, masterminded by the German bishops’ conference under the leadership of Cardinal Marx, was first proposed at the annual meeting of the heads of the three bishops’ conferences, held in January in Marseille, France.

The study day took place just days after the people of Ireland voted in a referendum in support of same-sex “marriage” and on the same day as the Ordinary Council of the Synod of Bishops met in Rome. Some observers did not see the timing as a coincidence.

I wish I could excerpt the whole thing. You’ll just have to read the rest of it for yourself. It may not be obvious yet, but I’d wager that this carefully-structured bit of reporting by Pentin is going to be one of the most important things written about the upcoming Synod. It shows the pre-planning, the forming of cabals, the willingness to undermine Church teaching, the revolutionary language, the subversion by secrecy, and the blatant disregard for the natural law as a manifestation of God’s own Divine Will.

In other words: this is what a schism looks like.

Continue reading...

23 Responses to PopeWatch: Is the Schism Here?

  • Is schism such a bad thing? Perhaps it is Jesus pruning the tree of useless branches.
    .
    Although in this case, perhaps the word “poisonous” branches or “rotting” branches might be more accurate.

  • I agree with DJ Hessselius. Maybe pruning is required.

  • I am reading Walker Percy’s Love in the Ruins right now. In the book the Catholic Church was split into three different factions. It’s a bit uncomfortable reading that at this moment in time.

  • The Truth is not susceptible to innovation, wailing, or gnashing of teeth.

  • “Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” [Code of Canon Lawc.751]
    Who, except a few Lefebvrists and Sedevacantists, is proposing that?

  • ‘ … but the development of a “theology of love.”
    One Swiss priest discussed the “importance of the human sex drive,” … ‘

    Twisting in their worldly minds for a way to rewrite the Sixth Commandment is costing the Church’s integrity, and depriving our Lord of souls. Going out to teach the whole world to sin no more indeed.

  • “Thus understood, schism is a genus which embraces two distinct species: heretical or mixed schism and schism pure and simple. The first has its source in heresy or joined with it, the second, which most theologians designate absolutely as schism, is the rupture of the bond of subordination without an accompanying persistent error, directly opposed to a definite dogma. This distinction was drawn by St. Jerome and St. Augustine. “Between heresy and schism”, explains St. Jerome, “there is this difference, that heresy perverts dogma, while schism, by rebellion against the bishop, separates from the Church.”

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13529a.htm

    “Cardinal Marx, the archbishop of Munich and Freising, said as far as doctrine is concerned, the German episcopate remains in communion with the Church, but on individual issues of pastoral care, “the synod cannot prescribe in detail what we have to do in Germany.”

    The German bishops want to publish their own pastoral letter on marriage and family after the synod, the article says.

    “We are not just a subsidiary of Rome,” Cardinal Marx said. “Each episcopal conference is responsible for the pastoral care in their culture and has to proclaim the Gospel in its own unique way. We cannot wait until a synod states something, as we have to carry out marriage and family ministry here.””

    https://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/german-bishops-we-are-not-just-a-subsidiary-of-rome/

  • Methinks the new “forbidden apple” will come in the way of the “pastoral virus” that was birthed with the smoke of Satan.
    No evil is ever done without first painting it with a glowing halo…just as it was when Satan dared to use God’s own scripture in order to tempt Him.

    My fear is for those poor souls that are ignorant of the fact that you can’t have true faith or love, devoid of truth (doctrine) and that they will run with any Roman collar that bids them to follow..
    As Christ told Pilate, “I’ve come to bring the truth.”

  • We humans never learn. Ever.

    “Theology of love” – can we not see the danger in this? JPII sure did…and he took great pains to explain the danger in his writings.

    If Francis takes the church toward a “theology of love” he will be a heretic, and his followers will not be with God.

  • There has been a schsim developing for many decades now. Modernists – those like +Kasper, +Marx, +Rodriguez Maradiaga and so many of the American hierarchy have been heading down this path since the Second Vatican Council began.

    The Church rarely speaks out against the evils of sin. Abortion, fornication, sodomy, the breakdown of the family and the garbage produced by Western entertainment that infiltrate almost every home with a television are never confronted. Poverty and war are the sins of the age. Pacifism and wealth redistribution are hailed as the solutions.

    The Church has become effiminate. The Church has grown weak. A Pontiff with a backbone would have removed Kasper, Marx, Maradiaga, Bergoglio and a bunch of Americans and Canadians and put them in a Trappist monastery. They only raise their hackles at those who try to live by the teachings of the Church as they have always been taught before the 1960s.

    Western Europe has been doing the equivalent of sucking on the business end of a Glock for a very long time. Abortion, sodomy, Muslim immigration and euthanasia are what Western Europe produce today and our so-called American elite see this as something to admire.

    England hates it that Poles have emigrated there seeking work. England whines more about the Poles living there than it does about the Pakistanis who live there.

    Twice, American blood was spilled and American treasure spent to keep tyranny out of Western Europe and look at what they have done with this freedom.

  • Penguin Fan—at least one Saint agrees with you completely. Pope St Pius X pray for us.

  • Anne-Marie Pelletier said it all!

    She praised the meeting between theologians and Bishops and said it was “a real sign of the times.”
    Whooa yeeah….it sure is!

    When she spoke of; “echos the words of the baptized” I wondered if she was recalling the words of renouncing Satan and all of his works? Or was it the baptizer’s echo of ” A voice of one crying out in a desert, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths.”

    Prepare indeed. John the baptist said to prepare ye the way of the Lord! The way of the Lord, not false Gods nor idols. Pruning is underway. No doubt.

  • Anne-Marie Pelletier is a remarkable scholar, who held the chair of Semitic Languages at the Paris-X University. She now holds a chair of linguistics and comparative literature at Marne-la-Vallée University. She is a philologist, a biblical scholar and exegete, who has done notable work on Isaiah and Canticles. She is not, and would not claim to be, a theologian.

  • The Chair of St. Peter remains in the present place in Rome. The time when this Chair will move from Rome to elsewhere is coming, but that time is not yet here.
    When that time comes everyone will see it since it will be marked by the physical demise of Rome itself.
    But there will be no schism.
    Faithful Catholics will remain loyal to the Chair of St. Peter in Rome till the time, prophesied in Sacred Scriptures, comes.
    http://popeleo13.com/pope/2015/02/12/category-archive-message-board-252-schism-is-not-an-option/
    http://popeleo13.com/pope/2015/04/10/category-archive-message-board-305-outline-of-the-end-time/

  • Pingback: Is the Schism Here? | Biblical False Prophet
  • The Church approved prophecy of Akita says such as thing as “cardinal against cardinal, bishop against bishop.” This will explode as part of or somewhat after the 2015 Synod.

    Why don’t people recognize the second beast of Rev 13 is now sitting on the Throne of Peter, whereby the real pope, Benedict XVI has fled the Vatican? It is Benedict who is the bishop in white in the 3rd secret of Fatima – “we thought he was the holy father”. Strange way of saying pope.

  • DJH-Whether Jesus prunes or not, He does curse fruitless fig trees-like the “Chief Priests and Scribes”; and once He curses them, they cease to bear fruit. They will cease to bear their wicked evil fruit. Our timeline for solutions may not be God’s timeline – but He always cares for, and takes care of, his priests, bishops, cardinals and popes. My daily prayer: “Thank you, God, for answering my prayers, whether it be in my time of in Your time.” Guy McClung, San Antonio

  • The one hundredth anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima’s approved apparitions is nearing. Two years away to be exact.
    Something to ponder…”souls are falling into hell like snowflakes falling from the sky.” (from memory..)

    Hell is real and our times are foretold.

    The actions of Church leadership will define / are all ready defining the times we live in. Cardinal Burke, a true honorable prelate, is a good compass to gauge ones direction during this storm.
    Fr. John Hardon….pray for us.
    St. Michael the archangel…pray for us.
    Star of the Sea, Mary most holy, guide us to safe harbor.

  • No to schism! We do not separate from Rome. The pope and his ‘advisors’ may seem to separate from us but we must stay faithful at all costs. God will only let things go so far. These men can plan and manipulate all they want and wink at sin but the truth never changes. We who know the truth must uphold it and be prepared to pay the price. This is a time of great trial and testing. Prepare well, dear brothers and sisters!

  • I think God is simply separating the sheep from the goats by allowing these pressures to build upon the Church. Mary said we are living in decisive times. Everyone must choose once and for all; there is no riding on the fence. Without such pressure, bad ideas and sentiments of the heart never come to flower by actions and words for which we can be held accountable.

    Isn’t it true that the Church has always had enemies within? There is nothing new here, except it coming to light. The down side of a schism is that it will make the targets of persecution so much easier to find and target. Those faithful to the magisterial teaching of the Church are going to stand out like a sore thumb and be left to fend for themselves.

    As for standing by the Church, for heaven sakes, that is an easy one: simply stand by the Truth as always taught and written in the Catechism and historical and official Church documents. Anyone who strays from the Truth has strayed from the Church, not the other way around.

  • JMS wrote, “As for standing by the Church, for heaven sakes, that is an easy one…”
    It is even easier than you suggest. Cardinal Manning summarised it, when he said, “But perhaps it may be asked: If you reject history and antiquity, how can you know what was revealed before, as you say, history and antiquity existed? ‘I answer: The enunciation of the faith by the living Church of this hour, is the maximum of evidence, both natural and supernatural, as to the fact and the contents of the original revelation. I know what are revealed there not by retrospect, but by listening.”
    He added, “The first and final question to be asked of these controversialists is : Do you or do you not believe that there is a Divine Person teaching now, as in the beginning, with a divine, and therefore infallible voice ; and that the Church of this hour is the organ through which He speaks to the world ? If so, the history, and antiquity, and facts, as they are called, of the past vanish before the presence of an order of facts which are divine”
    By contrast, any attempt to identify the true Church by her teaching, or Catholics by their tenets inevitably produces a vicious circle. “The true faith is taught by the true Church” and “The true Church is the Church that teaches the true faith”; this is not a test, but a tautology. That “the true Church consists of those in visible communion with the see of Rome” is a real test. Mgr Ronald Knox, when still an Anglican, asked himself, “Why did those who anathematized Nestorius come to be regarded as “Catholics” rather than those who still accept his doctrines?” He came to see that the only credible answer is that one party had the bishop of Rome in its camp and the other did not and that there can be little doubt that, in the West, our labelling of this party as orthodox and that as heterodox in early Church history comes down to us from authors who were applying this test of orthodoxy and no other.

  • Who can rewrite the Bible? The pope? The theologians? Can Truth be re-defined/changed, or is Truth always the same? No one can rewrite the Bible and Truth does not change. Anyone who does these things is not of Jesus Christ, founder of the Catholic Church. In last Sunday’s sermon, the deacon stated that he had just come from a retreat and the bishop had said, “It is the Catholics that doggedly cling to pro-life beliefs and traditional family values who are dividing the Church.” O Father in Heaven, protect the faithful from the wolves in sheep’s clothing. Give Your heart to the remnant who will follow you that we may love and save the souls of those who reject You, Your teachings, Your Truth.

  • Janet Graham asks, “Who can rewrite the Bible? The pope? The theologians? Can Truth be re-defined/changed, or is Truth always the same?”

    It is certainly true that, as Bl John Henry Newman observed, “Doubtless, a certain interpretation of a doctrinal text may be so strongly supported by the Fathers, so continuous and universal, and so cognate and connatural with the Church’s teaching, that it is virtually or practically as dogmatic as if it were a formal judgment delivered on appeal by the Holy See, and cannot be disputed” but he adds this qualification, “except as the Church or Holy See opens its wording or its conditions.”

    The same holds true for deliverances of the Magisterium: “instances frequently occur, when it is successfully maintained by some new writer, that the Pope’s act does not imply what it has seemed to imply, and questions which seemed to be closed, are after a course of years re-opened.”

    Truth is one thing; what seems to us to be true, or what we took to be true is quite another.

Top Popular Posts at Almost Chosen People

Thursday, May 28, AD 2015

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The long Memorial Day Weekend gave me time to look at statistics of the blogs I am involved with.  Here are the top ten most popular posts for Almost Chosen People, the American history blog that I and Paul Zummo run:

 

Magna Carta  9,548
Jefferson and Rousseau – On Democracy  7,378
Washington at Prayer  7,085
Edmund Burke and the American Revolution  6,590
Sam Houston and Secession  4,468
Top Ten Movies for the Fourth of July  3,939
Federalist 51 – Madison 3,438
July 5th, 1775: The Olive Branch Petition  3,192
Battle of Bunker Hill  2,570
John Adams Meets King George III 2,553

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3 Responses to Top Popular Posts at Almost Chosen People

The Vatican and the International Left

Thursday, May 28, AD 2015

 

 

 

Oh, Social Justice, what crimes are committed in thy name!

 

According to a just-released American Life League Report, Caritas Internationalis, the Vatican’s top social justice organization, is providing leadership to a radically pro-abortion, communist organization.

Evidence, from both primary sources and explosive video, highlights ALL’s report showing conclusively that the World Social Forum is a radically communist and pro-abortion organization pushing for world revolution. According to both internal and primary documents, Caritas Internationalis has held a position of leadership in the World Social Forum from its inception.

Michael Hichborn, host of American Life League’s ALL Report, stated, “This is a very serious problem.  Given how intimately connected the World Social Forum has been with the promotion of communism, abortion, and homosexuality since the very beginning, it’s impossible to see how any Catholic can participate in it, or even speak positively about it, let alone have any involvement in its governance. But Caritas Internationalis does!”

American Life League is urging Catholics to prayerfully and respectfully contact Cardinal Maradiaga, the current president of Caritas, and ask him to completely disaffiliate Caritas from the World Social Forum.

Caritas Internationalis
Palazzo San Calisto
Vatican City State
V-00120

Reception Desk: + 39 06 698 797 99
Fax: + 39 06 698 872 37
Email:  [email protected]

The American Life League Report can be viewed in its entirety here. Full documentation and source material is also available from American Life League.

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9 Responses to The Vatican and the International Left

  • I am sick and tired of social justice crap. It’s just a cover for socialist statism where God is replaced by Caesar and liberty by license.

  • This week the ‘Women of Grace’ show on EWTN has as guest, Anthony Esolen, discussing this, the topic of his book, ‘Reclaiming Catholic Social Justice’ on at 11:00 AM and 11:30 PM. Not boring, given other renditions of social justice from hierarchy. Hope in the wind.

  • I believe Caritas is probably shot through with socialists and communists. It should be disbanded, and replaced with a new agency with entirely new personal.

  • “I believe Caritas is probably shot through with socialists and communists. It should be disbanded, and replaced with a new agency with entirely new personal.”

    Or maybe a new religious order, committed to the fullness of the truth and personal, not state, charity.

  • I would encourage all to take a few moments and review the USCCB domestic social issues website linked below. There is not one utterance of subsidiarity, and as to solidarity (masked in theological double speak and multicultural mumbo jumbo) you will only see centralized statist budget busting proposals. Here’s a sampler From Bishop Wenski on climate change from his letter to the EPA

    Efforts to address climate change must take into account creation and its relationship to “the least of these”(Matthew 25). Too frequently we observe the damaging impacts from climate-related events in the United States and across the globe, particularly on poor and vulnerable communities. We know that the communities served by Catholic Relief Services (CRS) are already experiencing the tragic consequences of
    climate change. Increasingly limited access to water, reduced crop yields, more widespread disease, more frequent and intense droughts and storms, as well as conflict over declining resources – are all making the lives of the world’s poorest people even more precarious.

    Or this—$2.5M of parishioner money to support more Alinsky type community organizations

    Catholic Campaign for Human Development
    Learn how CCHD is helping communities support environmental justice. Since 2013, CCHD as invested nearly $2.5 million and partnered with over 35 community-based organizations and 31 dioceses in 22 states to support environmental justice.

    http://www.usccb.org/about/domestic-social-development/issues/index.cfm

  • C. Maradiaga? Nothing more need be said. We know of him. And words protesting the participation of Caritas in global sins will be wasted on him, I would suspect.

  • As a family we stopped donating to anything connected with Caritas a long time ago and only give to Aid to the Church in Need (ACN) a truly Catholic charity.

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  • Pingback: Yet another catholic charity working with a pro-abortion organization - Jill Stanek

Catholicism As Hate Speech

Wednesday, May 27, AD 2015

17 Responses to Catholicism As Hate Speech

  • For the last 60 years, the Catholic Church leaders have abandoned the Catholic faith and adopted Protestantism, Modernism, Liberalism, Masonry, Marxism, and Progressivism as their theology, thus aiding and abetting the rise and proliferation of the culture of death. The death culture is simply the predominant view of most Americans, including many who claim to be Catholics. I will now call it the culture of Satan. It can be nothing else.The unholy trinity of Satan-contraception, abortion, and sodomy-are the three pillars of this death culture which is so passionate about destroying their souls, they use any and all means to discourage and prevent any light or truth to enter their minds. Their hearts are so hardened by the sexual impurity they embrace that there is no room left for Christ.

    We Catholics know that Christ told us that the world would hate us as it hated Him. That hatred has, and will, increase as the principalities and powers of evil take hold of more hearts.

    Are we prepared to die for our love of Christ? We had better be because we know not when He will return.

  • The politicians are busy demoralizing what’s left of the voting block to unbalance practical thinking about budgets, spending, waste, and incompetence which are also deep-seated.

  • The media Spin Factories will again be in full attack. I can’t wait to see the pig they’ll dress up for the banquet. (Hillary is Not a liar – Hillary didn’t know about Benghazi – Hillary’s e-mail set up at home was okay …you get the idea.)

    The Left, and the infested media outlets whom they swap diseases with, will have to be called out.

  • The “consistent ethic of life;” i.e., “the seamless garment,” was supposed to give us a Right-to-Life constitutional amendment. Instead it gave Bernardin’s “faithful Catholics” the right to remain in the pro-abortion Democratic Party voting for it, giving that party the electoral power to keep abortion-on-demand the law of the land, and that has brought about all these other attacks against God’s laws we are confronting today.

    Is it just a coincidence that those on the left in this life are going to find themselves on the left when Jesus returns? I don’t think so. Are jackasses in this life going to be goats in the next?

    I beg the bishops and clergy t0 take this seriously. They should apply their “consistent ethic of life” to looking at the Democratic Party – the party that fought a war to keep blacks in slavery, and after losing they created the KKK, then Jim Crow laws, then supported eugenics and birth control to keep the white race pure, then reinstated segregation in the White House under Woodrow Wilson and then in federal employment, and segregated food and bread lines under FDR; opposed all civil rights legislation in Congress with the Senate Leader Lyndon Johnson leading the way who did an about face as President when he introduced his “War of poverty” legislation and explained to a couple governors on Air Force One why he was pushing this legislation: “It’s simple” he said, “I’ll have them niggers voting Democratic for two hundred years” (“Inside the White House” by Ronald Kessler, pg 33). The “War on Poverty” has cost $22,000,000,000,000 (twenty-two thousand billion dollars) [which the bishops support] and poverty is slightly higher as of last year than it was in 1964; and it has destroyed the black family which had fatherless homes back then at 30% which became 75% last year which is the reason the percentage of black males in prison is far greater than the percentage of blacks in the population. The party that supported legalizing abortion before Roe V. Wade, became it’s leading advocate and defender after Roe v. Wade. for the past 42 years, and now is the leader in legalizing same-sex “marriage.”

    How’s that, bishops, for “a consistent ethic of life?” Lay Catholics Democrats, you should know better than that. You don’t have to join another party; you just have to get out of the one you’re in and stop supporting it until it changes its position on those spiritual issues they have made political. Your salvation is at stake; and come judgment day upon his return – Jesus is not going to mess around with your excuses.

  • If you dance with the devil don’t complain when he feels you up.

  • I believe it was a Georgetown University professor in the early 1960’s who said something along the lines that though there were some other factors, the decline and fall of the Roman Empire was directly proportional to the rise in political power attained by women. Billary seems to be proving his statement to be accurate.

  • It would be nice if they didn’t get so much help from the “fiscal conservatives” that are nominally on our side.

  • HILLARY CLINTON OWNS OUR SOULS. Clinton looks strong and confident inculcating the masses with the propaganda that the human soul, our conscience and the gift of Faith is a structure of biases. Listen carefully and you will hear Hillary Clinton promise heaven on earth if you fund her with your “resources”, that is, your tax money. Hillary Clinton will take your tax money if you do not give her your tax money. If any sovereign person becomes Hillary Clinton’s constituent, while Clinton is in the White House, he may be sure that his sovereign personhood will be ignored, betrayed and sold to more powerful agenda without his permission. “Religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed, enforced and resourced to bring about Hillary’s hope for “our” future. If we fail, Hillary’s failure will be on us for not supporting her better, more and unflinchingly. A person has no choice but to fund and support Hillary and her campaign, Hillary’s unprincipled agenda is flawless.
    .
    After leading countless ignorant souls to perdition and hell, Hillary will become a death bed convert, joining the ranks of Josef Stalin and Adolph Hitler. When we get to heaven, we will have to deal with Hillary, Hitler and Stalin. Now, is a good time to start. It is heaven on earth.
    .
    Abraham Lincoln said that one person cannot own another person. If Hillary does not believe our Founding Fathers, who will Hillary believe?

  • James : “I believe it was a Georgetown University professor in the early 1960’s who said something along the lines that though there were some other factors, the decline and fall of the Roman Empire was directly proportional to the rise in political power attained by women. Billary seems to be proving his statement to be accurate.”
    .
    Hillary would. Prince and princesses are made of principles. Principles do not need gender. A principled woman is as great as a principled man. Hillary is as much a victim of her unprincipled, unethical, stinking breath demon, even as Hillary wishes and causes us to be victimized.

  • Jesus Christ is a sovereign person, a citizen of the whole world. Jesus Christ is the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth of God. To call the Word of God, the Revelation of God, Jesus Christ, a sovereign person, a citizen of the world, “Hatred” is criminalization of the Truth of God. A stinking, foul breathed demon has taken possession of our nation and its politicians. If any person embraces this stinking foul breath demon, he will be taken to hell.

  • As Catholics we need to remember that this nation (and no other nation) denies the truth that God has absolute authority over everything; every person whether they believe in Him or not, and every nation.

    Also recall that this nation (the U.S.) was not founded upon the Truth of God who is the Trinity but the philosophies and ideals of the Enlightenment (the darkness) and of Rousseau (spelling?), both antagonistic towards the Truth of God, man and his relationship (and right action) with God, found exclusively within the one Church instituted by Christ.

    Since the overwhelmingly majority of people in the U.S. (those on this website excluded, of course)do not believe God is the only authority over them and over the nation, the people He allows in roles of leadership and authority reflect this truth. Man cannot conduct himself properly unless he believes the Truth and makes every effort to live the Truth.

    The choices of the people in this nation, including those who pretend they are Catholic, have been to elevate Satan and themselves as god and thus they reap what they sow. Those of us living here in this time are no different than Catholics in the past who were subjected to the vile, sinful, greedy, immoral, soldiers of Satan. We are called to be the salt and Light of the world. That means sacrifice, prayer, reparation for our sins and the sins of the people everywhere, and ask God to give us the strength to persevere to the end of our days. All of you know this.

    Let us pray, pray, pray for each other and for all the lost souls.

  • Correction to my May 28th, 6:45pm post –

    I meant to say ALL nations deny the truth that God (the one, true God), has absolute authority over everything.

  • I explain to my Democrat acquaintances that Hillary is fanatic about abortion because her mother didn’t get one.

  • The “consistent ethic of life;” i.e., “the seamless garment,” was supposed to give us a Right-to-Life constitutional amendment. Instead it gave Bernardin’s “faithful Catholics” the right to remain in the pro-abortion Democratic Party voting for it, giving that party the electoral power to keep abortion-on-demand the law of the land, and that has brought about all these other attacks against God’s laws we are confronting today.
    Stilbelieve

    1. There is a seamless garment that fits Cthulhu.
     
    2. Don’t say “the right” when you mean “an excuse”. Words mean things.
     
    3. Yes, our bishops appear to have a lot to answer for. “The roads in hell are paved with the skulls of bishops.”–St. John Chrysostom
     
    4. Now is the time when the Church’s shepherds should be catechizing the flock about Christian morals, making the moral and practical cases against the Culture of Death, and teaching Christians that they have a duty to cast a vote that is both moral and informed. Waiting until the fall of 2016 to do these basic things is waiting until too late. By then partisanship will be running hot, the majority of people will have already made their choice of candidates, and the temptation to reject any hint of criticism of their candidate will be strongest. By waiting until the last months of the election season to teach and preach on issues at stake, the Church’s shepherds lead many of the faithful into temptation that could have been avoided. (See #3, above.)

  • Watch H. Clinton’s eyes in the video above. Scary. demonic?

  • @Anzlyne on Friday, May 29, A.D. 2015 at 9:56am
    Watch H. Clinton’s eyes in the video above. Scary. demonic?

    *
    My thinking exactly.
    *
    It is the enemy behind all this.

Hostile Takeover

Wednesday, May 27, AD 2015

 

Pat Archbold at Creative Minority Report thinks we have crossed a line in this pontificate:

The Pope appoints the pro-sodomy heretic Radcliffe (who called sodomy “Eucharistic”) to a significant curial consulting position the same week he, along with most most Irish Bishops, said absolutely nothing about the pending Irish pilgrimage to Gomorrah and then, even while acknowledging it is a heresy (indifferentism), he goes ahead and announces that he agrees with the Devil that all Christians are one and that is doesn’t matter if they are Evangelicals, or Orthodox, Lutherans, Catholics or Apostolic.

This is not commentary or opinion. These things happened. Make of that what you will.

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23 Responses to Hostile Takeover

  • Interesting times, that’s for sure. The Pope is on the verge of teaching formal heresy.
    And Ireland. Still not one single peep about the Ireland scandal from the Pope. This is simply too huge and tragic of an event for the Pope NOT to speak out. And yet, crickets.
    St. Michael, pray for us!

  • It seems so long ago when this Pope declared his disdain for the “gay lobby” occupying the Vatican.

  • Its obvious that Bergoglio supports the radical gay agenda, in spite of
    what he or his lieutenants at the Vatican say in opposition to
    gay marriage, which I dismiss as propaganda which gives Bergoglio
    the appearance that he is “a son of the church.”

    What’s next is my greatest fear.

  • Yesterday I finally reached the tipping point. I’m not sure if he is a fraud or just a crackpot.

  • As I, perhaps incorrectly, understand it, Radcliffe, said homosexual love was eucharistic. While that may very well be nonsense, and I think it is (If I had a dog, I could love and sacrifice for my dog. Does that mean my love for my pet is eucharistic?), nonetheless, that’s not the same as saying sodomy is eucharistic.
    .
    Also, his position is advisory, which only means as much as the people he’s advising want it to mean.
    .
    I guess I’m saying that the news seems bad, but there’s no need to run off into the heat of the day over it. At least not yet.

  • Who will stand and fight?

    From the book of Judges Chpt. 7 we see the Lord tell Gideon that his army of 32,000 is TOO many to fight the 135,000 Midianites. He cuts his troops to 10,000. Still too many. Only 300. The 300 proved to be the faithful. They with God destroyed the enemy camp.

    What of todays battles?

    Are we witness to the 32,000 that are lukewarm! Many not fully committed to the cause. These interesting times lead me to ponder the possible honing down of the true warriors for Christ. So many giving up and caving into the enemy camp prior to the battle.

    Courage?

    The lack of it is easily seen.

  • “As I, perhaps incorrectly, understand it, Radcliffe, said homosexual love was eucharistic.”

    That assumes Radcliffe has the same understanding of Eucharistic as the Church. My understanding is that Radcliffe sees the Eucharist as a bringing together of the community and binding us more fully together. Nothing of the Sacrifice of the Cross, atonement for sins, Redemption through that atoning sacrifice and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

    Some further points from a review:

    “258. Instead, Fr Radcliffe proposed a Eucharistic sexual ethic that started with Jesus’s gift of his body at the Last Supper. This might help us to overcome the dualism – the splitting of body and soul – which has been a constant problem for Christian thought, especially since Descartes. ‘If we are in essence minds, then what we do with our bodies is not that important.… Our permissive society has an implicit contempt for the body’.

    259. He went on to discuss sexual intercourse as ‘mutual generosity’ – the complete gift of the body to the other person. ‘When you have sexual intercourse with someone, then you say with your body, “I give myself to you and I receive you as a gift …”’

    264. The challenge to the Church is to ‘cherish the inherent meaning of sexual intercourse as covenantal… while coping with the inevitable failures that even the best Christians will experience’ …

    266. ‘How does all this bear on the question of gay sexuality? We cannot begin with the question of whether it is permitted or forbidden! We must ask what it means, and how far it is Eucharistic. Certainly it can be generous, vulnerable, tender, mutual and non-violent. So in many ways I think it can be expressive of Christ’s self-gift…’

    268. We can also see how homosexuality can be expressive of mutual fidelity, a covenantal relationship in which two people bind themselves to each other for ever. ”

    Source:

    http://catholicityandcovenant.blogspot.com/2013/12/we-must-ask-how-far-it-is-eucharistic.html

  • I do not know to whom Pope Francis was speaking in the 1st You Tube video above, but I neither saw nor heard anything overtly wrong. Am I missing something?

  • You may wish to view the following video for updated reports on the tragedy of the Irish vote.

    Click here: Ireland ‘defied God’ by voting for gay ‘marriage’: Cardinal Burke | News | LifeSite

    http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/the-vortexonly-the-brave-will-survive

  • “I do not know to whom Pope Francis was speaking in the 1st You Tube video above, but I neither saw nor heard anything overtly wrong. Am I missing something?”

    Start at 4:16 Paul.

  • ” Father may we be one, so that the world will believe you sent me”. attributed to Jesus Christ who really said: “that they may be one as we are” John 17:11. The unity of the one church is established on the unity of the Trinity, The Father and I ARE ONE…not “may we be one” maybe perhaps in the future, but not really now. ..a repudiation of the Blessed Trinity. God is outside of time and being outside of time is unchangeable .The Trinity is One God in Three Divine Persons. The sovereign Person of Jesus Christ, is Head of the Catholic Church, the triumphant in heaven, the militant on earth and the suffering in purgatory. The triumphant in heaven, the saints, are one in Jesus Christ.
    .
    The confusion about who must reach across the heresy to be ecumenical must be clarified. The heretics must reach to Jesus for heaven. No one can do this reaching for Truth except the soul . Once the soul has descended into hell, there is no changing his errors.

  • The first video starts at 1:19. . Christ said, I go to my Father. The Holy Spirit cannot come until I send Him. The Holy Ghost came because Jesus Christ, crucified, rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. Jesus Christ, and Him crucified, is the only way to heaven. The sinner cannot go to heaven because he does not will it.
    We are brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, crucified, because Jesus asked His Mother Mary to be our mother. It is through Mary, that we become brothers and sisters in Christ. Christians who refuse to accept Mary have a problem with unity.

    Pope Francis did not even bother to make the sign of the cross over us.

  • Jimmy Akin has a different point of view on the first video above. He begins with commenting on the Zenit News article which reported on that video.
    .
    http://m.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/did-pope-francis-say-it-doesnt-matter-what-kind-of-christian-you-are-9-thin/#ixzz3bH4HKunY
    .
    I disagree with many of Pope Francis’ appointments of liberal progressives (and sodomite supporters – is there a difference?) to positions of more power. I disagree with him on issues relating to politics, the environment, economics, etc. But having viewed the video again, I simply do not find it objectionable. Yes, what Mary De Voe wrote about Protestants not accepting Mary and about Jesus being the head of the Catholic Church (vice Protestant ecclesial assemblies) is true, and yes, Pope Benedict XVI’s Dominus Iesus applies:
    .
    http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
    .
    I guess I must be exceptionally dense this morning. Maybe too much neutron embrittlement of the containment structure around my brain..
    .
    🙁

  • Paul: Has Jimmy Aiken ever said anything critical of the pope? His job as a Catholic apologist is to agree with every word uttered by him. Aiken makes a living out of “interpreting” and “clarifying” each word that comes from the pope’s mouth. I don’t recall him having to do much clarifying when B16 was calling the shots. It’s time that people realize that Pope Francis is an unmitigated disaster for the Church and it will only get worse as long as he remains in the chair of Peter.

  • D Black, maybe you are correct. All I know is that I was never confused under JP II or B XVI, but I am never unconfused under Francis. I came into the Church under JP II. I would have never come into the Church under Francis.

  • Since when did a pope of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, the successor of St. Peter, who is to confirm his brethren and feed the LORD’s lamb and sheep, require an Akin to digest the food first? – My post @Creative Minority Report.

  • @Paul W Primavera: […] I would have never come into the Church under Francis. Reason to give thanks to God for who in his mercy called you when he called you.
    *
    On ecumenism: [Benedict XVI Pays Tribute to Blessed John Paul II in New Interview | ZENIT.

    BENEDICT XVI: One of the principal problems of our work, in the years that I was prefect, was the effort to reach a correct understanding of ecumenism.

    Also in this case it is a question that has a double profile: on one side, affirmed with all its urgency, is the task to work for unity and to open ways that lead to it; on the other, it is necessary to reject false conceptions of unity, which would like to reach the unity of the faith through the shortcut of the watering down of the faith. […].

  • Paul W Primavera: If you have never read any of the wonderful encyclicals written by our Holy Popes prior to Vatican II, I’d suggest you take some time to do so.

    They were never ambiguous and always defended the true teachings of the Catholic Church, handed down to them from Jesus through His Apostles.

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  • All Christians have the same chance for salvation, keeping in mind salvation is not a written exam. The Catholic Church has no monopoly on the Holy Spirit. Catholics should not regard themselves as the biggest, and, therefore, the best in the world wide church. Such an attitude does not give glory to God and does not foster evangelization.

  • “Such an attitude does not give glory to God and does not foster evangelization.”

    It does happen to be true though, and all other considerations are secondary once that is stated.

  • I wish coud term it geriatric dementia, but I can’t and neither can anyone else. He is a liar as is his whole “team.” Where are the leaders who will confront this foolish individual and tell him to be still? Liars and clowns, all of them. They betray the sheep a strut around without shame. Sickening.

  • how dare those non-Catholic Christians believe that they love Jesus and that Jesus loves them?

    how dare they believe that following their consciences is what God desires of them?

    how can they not know that they must agree totally with some (not all, but at least those who have convinced themselves that they alone know the wholeness of the truth) of us catholics if they want to be saved?

    where do they get this idea that if they believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and repent of their sins they will be saved?

Evangelizing young people: The power of liturgical signs and symbols…

Wednesday, May 27, AD 2015

 

Over at Fr. Z’s blog, there’s a great photo album posted by the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius Parish (Archdiocese of Chicago). The photographs contained in the album were taken as rose petals descended from the church’s ceiling upon the congregation below.

Screenshot 2015-05-27 11.11.54

As Fr. Z explains the ritual, it developed for the Solemnity of Pentecost in the Pantheon (now a minor basilica called S. Maria ad martyres). Rose petals are dropped through the circular oculus opening at the top of the dome, which is the widest  in all of Rome.  The petals descend upon the congregation below, reminding its members of the descent of the Holy Spirit like tongues of flame.

In the picture below, study carefully the faces of the little girl and boy.

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Now study carefully the surprise, delight, and glee on the faces of the children in the church’s main aisle.

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It’s obvious this ritual has struck a sense of awe and wonder into these young people, opening their consciouness if not their souls to the mystery surrounding the birth of the Church on Pentecost Sunday.

Over the past five-plus decades, how often has Rudolph Otto’s description of the “awe and wonder” (tremendum et facinans) that is experienced upon encountering the Holy been demonstrably visible on the faces and in the behavior of young congregants?

During those decades since the Second Vatican Council, have all of those guitar Masses, puppet Masses, and even those clown Masses struck young congregants with that sense of awe and wonder that’s evident in these photographs?

When it came to evangelizing young people through the Mass, the architect of the so-called “reformed” liturgy, Cardinal Annibale Bugnini, may have made the Mass more relevant by a worldly standard by appealing to the masses (pardon the pun).

bugnini

Cardinal Annibale Bugnini

But, he very well have thrown the baby away with the bathwater by a spiritual standard.

 

 

 

To read Fr. Z’s blog, click on the following link:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2015/05/of-the-dropping-of-rose-petals/

To view the photo album, click on the following link:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/canons-regular/sets/72157645271941293/

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8 Responses to Evangelizing young people: The power of liturgical signs and symbols…

  • We are incarnate souls, body and spirit. The iconoclasts refuse to believe that, and privilege the spiritual.

    To everyone’s detriment.

  • Yes. and I repeat my comment on Ireland’s Debacle: “People are attracted to mysticism and sacrament which the Catholic Church has been playing down for 50 years now…”

  • Only one woman and one little girl covering their heads as Scripture instructs us to do when we are in God’s house. Shameful.

  • Pingback: Pope Francis to Cardinal Sarah: Continue B16s Liturgical Work
  • Is the dropping of rose petals any less “gimmicky” than a guitar mass? Is it authenticaly liturgical? Since when do we measure sanctity by the expressions on the faces of a few children? One of the flaws in the criticism of the post-Vatican II Mass is that some people compare the worst cases of liturgical abuse to the best experiences of trad-Latin Mass. That’s not fair. When done with faith,reverence, and adherence to sound liturgy, the modern Mass is engaging and mystical. I was an altar boy in the pre-Vatical II times, and I experienced the traditional Mass done badly with priests going through the motions with their backs to disengaged Mass-goers either involved in their own personal devotions or sitting through the boredom out of obligation. the Vatican II Church Fathers determined what is best for the Body of Christ. I think we should seek to conduct liturgy with the goal of experiencing heaven on earth faithful to their vision of the celebration of the Eucharist.

  • ” the Vatican II Church Fathers determined what is best for the Body of Christ.”

    If what we have experienced in the liturgy over the past half century is the best as determined by the participants in Vatican II, that is perhaps the most appalling commentary on Vatican II I have ever read.

  • The rose petals were floating down at the END of Mass. They didn’t alter the form or content of the Liturgy

  • Still too gimmicky for me.

PopeWatch: Satan and Ecumenicalism

Wednesday, May 27, AD 2015

15 Responses to PopeWatch: Satan and Ecumenicalism

  • Are we now to understand that heresy is the mortar that hold God’s Churches together?

  • I’ve heard it said that; “The greatest sin is to believe sin doesn’t exist.”

    Could this be the second greatest?
    To proclaim that Satan doesn’t know where the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of God resides? Really Pope Francis?

    Sometimes it better to be silent and this is definitely one of those times dear Francisco.

  • In Marks passage it feels as though this “night” is happening agian. Mark 14:27 ;
    “And Jesus saith to them: You will all be scandalized in my regard this night: for it is written; I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep shall be dispersed.”

    Once in awhile a Catholic doctrine would sound sweet coming from his holiness. It happens…just not as often as one hopes.

  • The devil is not an atheist.

  • Perhaps, a starting point would be the fact that heretical baptism is indisputably valid.

    Pope Stephen taught it and, in doing so, differed from all the world besides. The Apostolic Canons, the Synods of Iconium and Synnada had denied heretical baptism was valid. So, also, did Clement of Alexandria, Firmilian and Tertullian; St Basil, too, and St Cyprian, St Athanasius and St Ambrose and St Cyril. All taught that “We have not the same baptism with heretics,” “”Then may there be one baptism, when there is one faith. We and heretics cannot have a common baptism,” and “he that is sprinkled by them is rather polluted than redeemed.”

    They were all wrong, all these holy Fathers and Catholic doctors. Rome had spoken through Stephen, although for a century and a half, his judgment was all but unknown, until it was embraced and defended by St Augustine.

  • By virtue of the Sacrament of Matrimony, husband and wife are therefore one flesh and what God has joined together, let no man put asunder. By virtue of the Sacrament of Baptism, One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. The husband and wife, while one, often disagree, and sometimes separate but are still one flesh. Christians have their falling out, and sometimes separate but they are still one. In both cases, the separated ones may deny their oneness but cannot escape it. Now this is off the top of my head and I won’t have to be beaten up much to recant but it seems to make sense.

  • Archbishop Fulton Sheen said; “Before the hand of God comes down upon the world it comes down upon the Church.”

    Is our pontiff saying we are one because we are Christs even though we all don’t eat of the same flesh or drink of the same blood? Who has life? The partakers of the one Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, or is it all baptized regardless of refusal to acknowledge Catholic sacraments?

    I know God has perfect vision. He sees what men can not see, the heart.
    If Pope Francis is striving to unite our differences with other communities there might be a clearer way.

  • This brings my mind to consider what is “permissive” ( as in Jesus description of Moses’s allowing divorce) and what is BEST for us from our loving Father. What the devil does know is that God loves and redeems those who love him.. And His DESIRE is that all should be united. We are all “called out” ekklesia– we all respond according to our own reception of the gifts He has for us. We who have been given much, have much required of us.

  • We and those outside the Catholic Church are not one. All Protestant denominations were born out of the denial of one or more of the truths that Christ taught and was passed on through the Apostles and their successor’s in the only Christian Church Christ instituted. That is where all Truth resides. What profit is there for one to believe error or exist outside of all Truth?

    This is a tragic heresy (one of many) promulgated in the Second Vatican Council.

    The only way to be one, to be truly unified, is for those outside of the Church to come into Her.

  • Lanie wrote, “We and those outside the Catholic Church are not one.”
    As Bl John Henry Newman points out, in discussing the controversy in the early Church over heretical baptism: “in the preceding century. Baptism was held to be the entrance to Christianity and its other sacraments, and once a Christian, ever a Christian. It marked and discriminated the soul receiving it from all other souls by a supernatural character, as the owner’s name is imprinted on a flock of sheep. Thus heretics far and wide, if baptized, were children of the Church, and they answered to that title so far as they were in fact preachers of the truth of Christ to the heathen… To cut off such cautious baptism from the Church was to circumscribe her range of subjects, and to impair her catholicity.”
    The “character” imprinted by baptism derives from a Greek word, χαρακτήρ, often applied to the stamp or effigy on a coin; all baptized souls are indelibly stamped with the image of their divine King.

  • Michael Patterson-Seymour.

    Thank you kindly.
    You helped me see the picture in clearer light. It takes any sting out of the remarks, since we are one, united in the one Christ whom Satan hates.

    Blessings.

  • Michael Paterson…one “t”.
    Pardon me.

  • more indication that Jesuits are not Catholic.

  • Philip wrote, “It takes any sting out of the remarks, since we are one, united in the one Christ whom Satan hates.”
    Lumen Gentium (para 15) puts it succinctly, when it says, “The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter…. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood.”

  • As one baptized, then taught well the precepts of Christianity in the Lutheran Church, and yearning for the mysticism, depth and richness which only Catholicism protected from the time of the Apostles of Jesus; I was eventually confirmed. My Baptism certificate was thankfully accepted as once for all time. From the words spoken to John 17 by Peter’s successor, I, once again apprehend a lack of encouragement or invitation or elevation of Catholicism or teaching of God’s Love or leadership – Christians being ‘whatever’ as opposed to using the opportunity to elevate, strengthen souls in this onslaught. (The ‘glass of water is half full or empty’ question).

Sardonic Ex Curia

Tuesday, May 26, AD 2015

maccari-cicero

 

 

 

I always keep my eye out for good linking blogs which list the best posts each day on subjects I am interested in.  Commenter Jonathan runs an excellent linking blog at Sardonic Ex Curia.  Here is his description of his blog:

Welcome to Sardonic Ex Curia! The purpose of this blog is simple – provide a series of daily links to intelligent conservative, Federalist, or Catholic web content. Most of it will be current content from true blogs, although some of it may be links to good reprints, journal articles, and other web flotsam. I am modeling this on the Catholic blog the “Pulp.It”. Go check them out sometime as well!

Go here to take a look at the blog.

 

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4 Responses to Sardonic Ex Curia