The Vatican Hires Pro-Homosexual Corporations to Make Its Operations More Transparent & Efficient

With the mainstream media proclaiming in bold and bright rainbows that the Church is “homophobic,” it becomes necessary at times to move to the vanguard to defend the Church against her most vociferous critics.

According to the highly-regarded investigative reporter, Randy Engle, Pope Francis’ efforts to bring greater “transparency,” “efficiency,” and “financial reform” to the Vatican City State’s government, have resulted in the hiring of the pro-lesbian, pro-homosexual, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) consulting firm of Ernst & Young (E&Y) to spearhead the efforts. On its corporate webpage, E&Y advertises itself as the world’s most “gay friendly” employer.

Imagine that! The allegedly “homophobic” Catholic Church has contracted with E&Y, even though E&Y is reportedly going to refuse to operate in countries with “homophobic laws.”

But, there’s even more!

The Vatican has hired U.S.-based McKinsey & Company (M&Co) to improve its communication offices which include Osservatore Romano, Vatican Radio, and Vatican Television.  M&Co’s website proclaims: “McKinsey is a place where LGBT people thrive.”

Good news always comes in three’s!

The Vatican has also hired the Swiss-based accounting firm KPMG to improve its financial practices. KPMG has a special recruitment and retention policy to increase the number of LGBT employees and partners as well as to expand the number of LGBT professionals in senior-level positions within the firm. And their “…partners,” too?

How dare anyone call the Church homophobic! This isn’t a matter of hiring artists to paint ceilings or carve marble statues! Vatican officials are entrusting the task of making some of its most important offices more transparent and efficient—its administration and finance—to three pro-homosexual corporations—including one that officially recognizes homosexual partnerships.

Who are those people to judge?

 

 

To read Randy Engle’s article, click on the following link:
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/engel/140101

To read The Motley Monk’s daily blog, Omnibus, click on the following link:
http://www.richard-jacobs-blog.com/omnibus.html>

132 Responses to The Vatican Hires Pro-Homosexual Corporations to Make Its Operations More Transparent & Efficient

  • “When in Rome…” tisk tisk.
    …..can’t resist this one….”if ya can’t beat ‘em join ‘em.

    Is this one of those moments when you say Dear God I Do Trust in YOU?
    Stay close to God and keep praying knowing that He is in control.
    Who knows…maybe the final curtain call on humanity is just heartbeats away.
    Jesus I Trust in You!

  • So ecumenical that our doctrines fall out. Give the money to the poor in your neighborhood.

  • The Lavender Mafia seems to be alive and well in the Vatican in spite of the fact that Pope Francis is clearly aware of its existence:

    http://www.aleteia.org/en/religion/documents/pope-francis-vs-the-secret-vatican-gay-lobby-1943001

    Whatever gifts Pope Francis may have, I think it is becoming increasingly clear that he is a disaster in the day to day management of the Church.

  • “The Lavender Mafia seems to be alive and well in the Vatican in spite of the fact that Pope Francis is clearly aware of its existence:”
    Some people and priests do not consider homosexual behavior as sinful, not adultery, not fornication. Some people and priests practice homosexual behavior to avoid fornication and adultery. The truth of homosexual behavior is that it is self-abuse and assault and battery of the partner. In matters of the rational, immortal human soul, refusal to grant that sodomy is gravely sinful and the road to hell, the practice of sodomy is mortal sin. If Pope Francis allows harlots to run his road show, fear of the Lord will be brought to bear.

  • “, fear of the Lord will be brought to bear.”

    Am I wrong to suggest that the use of the “rainbow” in the homosexuals banner is a direct slap in Gods face.
    He won’t wash out the filth next time, however He might burn it out.
    Pray for conversions!

  • Francis, a faithful son of the Catholic Church.

  • To deliver a message of repentance and conversion, Jesus ate and drank amongst sinners. He also picked up the tab.

  • Actually I think Christ was always a guest, except for the fish and loaves feast. I would certainly have no objection to Pope Francis sharing bread with sinners to bring them to repentance. Giving millions of Church “bread” to public relation firms who are in opposition to the teachings of the Church is quite a different matter.

  • “….picked up the tab.”

    Excuse me sir. The “tab” is running as long as men have free will.
    Our obedience or disobedience is at question in relationship to pitching in and helping our neighbor.
    One popular version; too many unwanted pregnancies…freedom to kill is good.
    Another one for today; God made me this way..homosexual, so He would want me to express myself as I am.

    The above examples are what I hear when in listening mode to understand.
    Is a moral compass important?
    Maybe a broken compass is best, then you can smile as you travel the “wide” road.

  • MCM.

    Not you personally. The wide road is easy and I’m not suggesting you travel on it. The importance of a spiritual leader is to guide the flock to safty…not lead them to wolves.

  • I wonder how much the fees are going to cost the Vatican, and whether the engagement contracts contain any clauses to reduce the “inequality” of pay between the executives of the contractors and the employees who do the clerical/menial jobs in the executives’ offices?

  • Many thanks for the replies.

    By “picking up the tab” I was referring, too esoterically to be sure, to Christ’s paying of the ultimate price. So yes, though “[t]he “tab” is running as long as men have free will,” the employees of KMPG, E&Y, and M&Co are also “in listening mode.”

    The Holy Spirit has given the Church a papacy for the times that we’re in (cf. Matthew 10:16), and the gates of Hell shall not prevail.

  • Being somewhat familiar with two of the three firms mentioned, I would say the Vatican is selecting large, old and professionally reputable firms to deal with. I think that in some instances (Catholic Relief Services comes to mind.) that we apply a “purity test” of sorts to those outside the Church that we do business with that can be taken to extremes. The US Postal Service, last time I checked, delivers Planed Parenthood propaganda, birth control prescriptions and other objectionable materials yet the Church continues to patronize them (I even understand that they are closely affiliated with the US Government, currently being run by the infamously and scandalously renown Obama Administration!). Being “Gay Friendly” in one’s hiring practices does not necessarily make them promoters of evil and enemies of the Church (If they were that militant, they would have refused to do business with the Church because of its “homophobic policies” or some such excuse.).

  • “The US Postal Service, last time I checked, delivers Planed Parenthood propaganda, birth control prescriptions and other objectionable materials”

    Red Herring alert! Red Herring alert! The US Snail is a government monopoly. One has no choice but to deal with them. Comparing that with hired PR “gay friendly” firms is rubbish. The Vatican either didn’t do their homework, they don’t care or a member of the Lavender Mafia in the Vatican got a chuckle out of donations by faithful Catholics going to firms that despise the teachings of the Church. All the lipstick in the world won’t make this pig of a decision look any prettier.

  • I am all for using the best professional help available. But isn’t this inviting the fox into the hen house?

  • At every moment we are teacher and student. The question I have is: what is the Vatican teaching? In this decision I feel they are endorsing the behavior of companies that support Grave Sin.
    Why should our Holy Church teach ideas contrary to our beliefs?
    Just a question from a poor student.

  • I’m with Joseph Mulvihill on this one. If each of us listed every company we personally use, every brand we buy, every service we patronize and engage with, I guarantee you there is either a pro-gay, pro-abortion policy behind most of them. Don’t tell me you don’t use google, buy Microsoft, eat nestle, watch Disney? All are pro-gay.

    Firstly, There was a crook running the Vatican bank. A catholic crook. Allegeded Mafia money-laundering by people, who I would guess are vastly Catholic. No red herring- it’s a valid point.

    Secondly, all companies should be equal opportunity, regardless. So as long employees do their work ethically, efficiently and well to a professional standard. And keep their personal beliefs personal.

    For example hiring a gay teacher at a Carholic school is not right, in my opinion. But not hiring a gay lawyer at a firm run by a devout Catholic is absurd. To me. What if he has the skill to be an asset to your company, and respected the type of work the company policy obliged him to take? What’s so wrong with that?

    You’re not talking about E &Y influencing or pressuring the Vatican to do anything immoral. They’re auditors. So what if the gay E&Y employee worked on the bank books?!

    Who are we to judge. Amen.

  • “Who are we to judge.”

    We are faithful Catholics who have a duty, not a right, but a duty, to point out when men in positions of power within our Church make decisions that make a mockery of the teachings of our Faith they are paid to uphold.

  • Ez.

    I disagree.
    We are to judge! Not condemn however judge most definitely.
    Our remaining silent IS Consent!
    Thats allowing Bad behavior to go without any admonishing the sinner so that they have a chance at “freedom.”
    Yes we all have had beams in our eyes, but once pulled out its social justice to mention the spec in our neighbors eyes.

  • What hits you is the inanity of the hiring practices of all three firms. I would wager that sort of thing is a confluence of two factors: the presence of a homosexual cabal in certain gatekeeper positions and the degree to which attitudes toward sodomy are now a marker among the professional-managerial bourgeoisie of in-group status.

  • Art.
    What hits me is the teaching moment lost, worse than lost, it’s sacrilegious.
    The very top has made an error in judgment. If we all said; “Who cares” as former Sect. of State did in response to Benghazi, then what next?
    Who cares that the Vatican has selected three firms that support homosexuals in the workplace? I do.
    The Gennie is out of the bottle and God forbid our Holy Father to stand up and teach here.

  • What hits me is the teaching moment lost, worse than lost, it’s sacrilegious.

    You recall Wm. F. Buckley’s reaction in 2002 to what a great many dioceses (e.g. Boston’s) were doing during the period running from 1982 to about 1993: “It would appear what the Church believes in is…psychiatry”. And the beat goes on.

    You get the impression that we are living in an era like the 10th century and that it will be a while before the crud on the floor and the walls is powerwashed away. And by ‘a while’, I mean when you and I are safely and cozily dead.

  • Art.
    Agreed.
    While I’m still breathing I will not cease to try to help just one soul to the truth.
    http://www.courage rc.net
    If one soul finds truth on my behalf before I get cozy then this is worth it.
    God bless you Art.

  • It is my belief that electing Ernst & Young’s CEO and taking millions in corporation donations from the company were primary moving factors in the change in the Boy Scouts of America’s policy on homosexual membership. Ernst & Young didn’t act as a neutral broker in that situation. So to, KPMG advises a large number of US government agencies on personnel policies, compensation, and evaluations. I assure you that that advice is not neutral on questions involving LGBT issues.

    One cannot expect that those whose stated interests are opposed to your own will actively work against their perceived interests. Hiring firms that promote themselves as “progressive” invites their manipulation of all they have contact with. Auditing necessarily means advising, for example, and, we should assume that advising the vatican will temper policies which adversely effect LGBT interests.

    This is a mess… No more a mess than many US dioceses have done on their own of course (witness New York’s paying for contraceptives or San Fancisco’s blind eye to priests “blessing” gay unions) but a mess nonetheless.

  • “Who are we to judge?

    St. Paul gives the answer in 1st Corinthians 6:2-3

    2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life!

    And right before that in chapter 5 of 1st Corinthians St. Paul wrote:

    3 For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing [slept with his father's wife]. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    Next non-Biblical comment, please.

  • This is very disheartening news. We are certainly called to engage the sinner, as well as our own sinfulness. We are called the Church Militant because we are supposed to be fighting, in word and action, evil in this world. We are supposed to be rescuing Satan’s prisoners and leading them to freedom. Enriching our enemies coffers with our monies -even if they are providing a service – helps them to expand their armies and arsenals arrayed against us. It seems to me that we are inviting in the Trojan Horse knowing our enemy awaits inside, armed and ready.
    And yes, as they publicly and as policy support false and destructive positions, it seems scandalous to me to hire them.

  • Isn’t it far better and much more effective to engage the sinner at a personal level. For example, Jesus dined with sinners- He entered their homes and engaged them. How are you meant to engage a sinner when you hold him-her at arms length? Refuse to do business, refuse to work with him etc…

    Secondly, I don’t see a gay conspiracy behind the hiring of E&Y- unless I see proof of one- paranoid speculation does not pass as proof, that the Vstican is secretly trying to go pro-gay. E&Y’s “equal opportunity” company policy is not a big deal.

    Yes we all have a duty to point out the shortcomings of the Church heirarchy. But, I don’t see how Church leaders are making a mockery of the teachings of the Church. I don’t see an agenda here at all.

    Again, I think the Vatican hired them because they are good at the task they were hired for. And as I stated, I don’t see any difference between the Vatican hiring a pro-gay company to undergo a financial service, and one of us individuals patronising say an insurance company that donates to PP. Try and find a “clean” company- I challenge you!

  • EZ is right. Sadly, we are on the minority side of the culture wars, and most secular institutions are lined up with the opposition, either because of sincere beliefs or because of perceived self-interest. I don’t think Church teaching requires either it or us to have business or social intercourse with our opponents in these wars. Catholics need not refrain from hiring E&Y or working for E&Y. My law firm has taken positions that I disagree with. My partners are aware of my disagreement and we respect each other. Insulating ourselves into antiseptic silos is neither practical nor effective.

  • Have should have been “avoid.” Too bad we don’t have an edit feature. I live to edit. :-)

  • “Isn’t it far better and much more effective to engage the sinner at a personal level.”

    False choice. Engaging sinners does not equate with the Vatican taking donations earned by the sweat of faithful Catholics and giving contracts to firms that brag about how gay friendly they are.

    “Secondly, I don’t see a gay conspiracy behind the hiring of E&Y-”

    Yeah, it is probably just a big coincidence. Sure.

    “But, I don’t see how Church leaders are making a mockery of the teachings of the Church.”

    Hiring firms that promote the gay agenda is not merely a mockery of Church teaching, but such action is actively working against Church teaching.

    “Again, I think the Vatican hired them because they are good at the task they were hired for.”

    How in the world can you make that conclusion? Normally when any big outfit gives a contract competency is not the only factor that goes into the mix. Could the Vatican have found firms, just as competent, that do not promote the gay lifestyle? Did the Vatican try to do so?

    “Again, I think the Vatican hired them because they are good at the task they were hired for. And as I stated, I don’t see any difference between the Vatican hiring a pro-gay company to undergo a financial service, and one of us individuals patronising say an insurance company that donates to PP.”

    Rubbish on stilts. Not holding the Vatican to a higher standard than the average Catholic is a sure fire way to reduce the conduct of Church officials to a very low standard indeed. Additionally these firms are going to help shape Church policies and that goes well beyond a Catholic unknowingly buying an insurance policy from a company that has donated in the past to Planned Parenthood.

  • Philip: Make sure you “get cozy” with the Holy Rosary. Its the only way to go.

  • “But not hiring a gay lawyer at a firm run by a devout Catholic is absurd.” Not true. Depending on how steeped in gay ideology the lawyers is, all perspective will be colored by the gay agenda. If one is talking about a homo-sexually orientated person who is a practicing Catholic;
    these persons are the finest of people around, for they see all sides. However, in general, the gay agenda does not hire straights, discriminates in reverse and blames God and their neighbor for their sins, not a very good foundation for business.

  • Philip. I, too have been offended by the gay militants co-opting the rainbow, and more, as though God approves of the vile things they do. One cannot see or say “rainbow” without the connotation of homo-sexual behavior. One cannot walk down the street with a same sex friend without people wondering “IF”. My two daughters were once asked if they were incestuous lesbians. Enough already. They laughed it off but enough already.

  • Mary De Voe.

    Daily for 14 years..I know that places me as beginner compared to many of you, however Our Immaculata has been with me each and every step of the way.
    Even when I stumble and fall…especially when I stumble and fall.
    God willing I will have my scapula on and Holy Rosary in hand on my death bed.

  • We’ve strayed into a very timely and broader subject: what right does an employer or a merchant have to refuse to hire or do business with someone whose conduct is in conflict with their beliefs? Collterally, what right does a candidate or a consumer have to force someone to hire them or do business with them when their conduct directly conflicts with their beliefs?

  • As I implied above, when people are involuntarily/accidently brought closer to the Faith (e.g. the lackadaisical-Catholic employees at these firms), my experience has witnessed personal beliefs move toward the Church, not the disintegration of Magisterial teaching.

  • “Insulating ourselves into antiseptic silos is neither practical nor effective.”
    The Old Testament is replete with Moses instructing the Israelites to “drive evil from their midst.” God said:”for you are men sacred to me.”

  • That can be true Mr. Masotti. Even the faith of non-Christians can inspire Catholics.

    It is not a given though. Using the Boy Scouts of America as my first example, do we think Ernst & Young has changed or its senior executives altered their positions due to the BSA experience? Nothing I’ve seen suggests that nearly 50% of BSA rejection of that progressive position made the company or its executives more sensitive to Christian teaching.

    Second example, have the law suits against photographers, caterers, and lodging made LGBT advocates more accepting of Christian teaching? Suing them for their refusal to extend their services to same sex couples doesn’t seem to have made the LGBT community or its supporters more open to the teachings of Christ. If anything, they seem to have emboldened them to oppose God more aggressively than ever.

    So, does the Church giving tens of millions to Ernst & Young – a company with a firm, public, and aggressive commitment to a radical LGBT agenda – represent a problem? I tend to think that it does, in the same way as offering one’s business to a confirmed neo-nazi gives such a one greater resources with which to act on their warped beliefs.

  • Donald,

    Ok then, who should the Vatican have hired? Name an organisation that you would have been happy with?!

    Your taxes, your hard earned dollar is going to things that actively promote the gay lifestyle, on a daily basis. As is the companies you CHOOSE, FREELY to patronize. You as a well-read, well-informed Catholic should know better!

    And wrong Donald- it’s not insurance companies that once donated to PP. they give to PP ONGOING. Your insurance policy funds that giving- unless of course your insurance policy is with Knights of Colombus.

    I’m holding my breath in great anticipation of the company you so wisely think the Vatican should have hired….

  • “Name an organisation that you would have been happy with?!”

    Any firm that does not announce that it is a proponent of the gay agenda would be a good start. Do not be deliberately obtuse. It is a scandal that the firms announced were chosen. My guess is that the Knights of Columbus could nominate firms that would be quite acceptable if requested to do so by the Vatican.

    “FFG: How do you invest according to Catholic principles?

    Minopoli: One of the things that our membership should realize, and that they should be proud of, is that we run an ethically screened portfolio. Our portfolio is in compliance with the teachings of the Catholic Church. We basically screen companies for abortion, contraception, human cloning, human embryonic stem cell research, for-profit health care that pays for any of the aforementioned, and pornography. Yet still our equity results have been competitive with the market as a whole, and that is something also our members can be very proud about. Our equities have outperformed the Standard & Poor’s 500, which is the big equity index, over the past five years and over past 10 years. We’re a shade behind over three years, but over five and 10 years we’re well ahead. It may be that companies which operate in a moral manner perform better in aggregate, but the fact is that you don’t have to engage in unethical practices to make money. In fact, I can tell you that running our portfolio ethically has not forced us to offer less compelling results. We can feel good about that.

    FFG: These ethical concerns must be unusual for the investment chief.

    Minopoli: Yes, but they make our investments more meaningful.”

    http://www.fathersforgood.org/ffg/en/month/archive/april10.html#sthash.nJgMBnli.dpuf

    “Your taxes, your hard earned dollar is going to things that actively promote the gay lifestyle, on a daily basis.”

    Yep, and I cast my votes against the politicians who support such misuse of my tax dollars every chance I get. I expect more from the Vatican than I do from politicians. Perhaps my expectation is misplaced?

    “You as a well-read, well-informed Catholic should know better!”

    I try to keep informed and I do not patronize firms that publicly embrace causes I find repugnant. It isn’t that tough to do. I expect the Vatican to do likewise.

  • May I suggest something I do not believe has been raised yet? In the “Vatican” hiring these two companies with obvious LGBT ideological agendas, (and I base this on ‘history’): somebody did not do their necessary homework, again!!!!

    To be honest, I am not trying to minimize the issue, I actually am getting tired of the ‘incompetency’ shown by elements of “the Curia”, Next month, a lot of ‘pink slips’ need to be given out.

  • Boltoph, this is a serious question: aren’t there a lot of lay people in decision-making positions at the Vatican? (That they are lay people doesn’t mean they are the best people for the job. I imagine there is a lot of favoritism in the hiring there.) Can’t the Vatican command sufficiently robust compensation to attract talented managers? I think there is goodly evidence that they haven’t though. We see similar things at the diocesan level. Does anyone know why Church administration seems to be so bad?

  • Agreed Botolph! When Pope John XXIII was asked how many people worked at the Vatican he replied “About half.”

  • Donald, I love that one liner from Blessed, soon to be Saint Pope John XXIII

  • “…to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity,…” Government of the people is constituted to secure the Blessings created and endowed by our Creator and God. Without the Blessings of God there is only the wrath of God. Does Pope Francis really believe that gay friendly corporations can, are able to and will fulfill their contract with the Catholic Church while they are dead set against the truth of the Catholic Church, the truth of the Constitution and the truth of God in the creation of the human soul?

  • David Spaulding,

    There is some movement, in both the Vatican and more in local dioceses in America to have competent lay people in key roles within the institution. Let me say that first.

    Having said that, however, there is a centuries old ‘system’ that built up in the Curia [the Curia is older than "the Vatican" actually; remember, the Cathedral of the Bishop of Rome is Saint John Lateran, not Saint Peter's. Originally, St John Lateran was the hub, the buzword etc of the Church. The "Vatican" is a relatively recent institution, but I digress.

    Let me say this. The Council of Trent had as one of its tasks, the overhaul/reform of the Roman Curia. The problem is obviously very old. Until recently, since Rome after all is the capital of Italy etc. the Curia has been made up almost completely of Italian priests [monsignori], bishops and Cardinals. The internationalization began with Pope Paul VI, 1963-1978. That has met with some passive resistance within the Curia. I don’t claim to be an expert on the Curia, but I can say that they have an ‘old world’, ‘old ways’, “we have always done it this way’ atmosphere. For example, leading up to, during and after Vatican II what took place has often been described as “conservatives versus the liberals”. That would work if describing some of the theologian periti (experts) at the Council, but not of the basic guts of the Council itself. It was the entrenched Roman Curia vs the world-wide bishops.

    You most likely would not find the same positions taken now as one would see during the Council, but the atmosphere is still the same, from all reports. The clericalism [entrenched almost cult-like 'good old boys network'] that protected their own-and actually suffocated the life out of the priests and bishops involved. The Italian Cardinals of the Curia (not so much the cities) are a case in point. A Cardinal from, say, Florence,[I am only using the name of the city-I am not speaking of an actual ecclesiast here] knows certain priests from Florence etc and bring them on board to his secretariat etc. Needless to say this patronage excludes the possibility of lay people, male or female, or consecrated religious who are competent etc. The priests show their loyalty to the Cardinal, who watches out for his ‘boys’. He becomes their guardian angel and they advance ecclesiastically up through the various ranks. He guides them, tells them to watch so and so, fights their battles sometimes. He is their Patrone. Advancement, not mission-power, not service feeds this ‘monster’. They take on the atmosphere-which we can see in some dioceses and even parishes-of the ‘entitled’, the ‘one’s in the know’ who know the ones really in the know-and it becomes self perpetuating, generation after generation after generation. The Curia is still ‘living’ in the past era of the times of the Papal States, and not in our complicated post-modern world.

    The bishops and Cardinals ‘in the world’-back in the dioceses are closer to what is really going on [now of course there are exceptions and some might dispute this, but they are much closer to the reality of the real Church than the Curia is]. To be honest, I thought things were actually changing slowly but steadily, until everything blew up during the ministry of Pope Benedict. Many here would say Pope Benedict was mistreated by the progressives in the Church, and they would not be wrong. But the progressives would be his’allies’ in comparison to what segments of the Curia put him through! I actually was scandalized (and I don’t use that term lightly). Much, not all, of the criticisms of Pope Francis that we hear from people really is the result of the Curia’s lack of competency, laxity and yes, intentional manipulation!

    I believe things will really begin to change next month, but of course, the way the Church rightly works, it will be done mostly through attrition-on the upper levels. The change will be ‘organic’.

  • Mary De Voe,
    Your heart is absolutely in the right place. I would nuance your statement in two areas.
    1)I highly doubt the Pope was involved with hiring these two firms. That came at a ‘lower level’ of management. Now of course, the buck stops with him so to speak, as it does with anyone who is in any form of leadership/management, but I actually hope for his own good and the good of the Church that he is not involved with such ‘mundane’ decisions

    2) Pope Francis does not have the Constitution of the United States in mind, in any way shape or form-nor should he.

    HOwever, I love your posts. Your heart is always in the right place!

  • Well, there is much here that I have resisted commenting on because I don’t want to start an unnecessary brouhaha. However, caution to the wind. We need to wake up to the reality that we are always under attack under different manifestations, all of which include “I will not serve” and “I am my own god.” Currently the homosexual assault is full force and our Church has been in retreat for some time. Or worse, seduced by many intellectually dishonest arguments and ignoring the heartfelt, God-given conscious that knows what is truly wrong.
    We must engage and defeat the pernicious sexual revolution. This is an unfinished thread as my wife is demanding my presence.

  • Philip: “God willing I will have my scapula on and Holy Rosary in hand on my death bed.”
    Amen

  • Thank you Botolph for a cogent explanation. I’m not shocked for my view of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia runs along the same lines. It saddens me though.

    Would it be trying your patience to ask what event next month you expect? I should also like to know whether the rumors of Pope Francis’ placing limitations on the granting of monsignor to priests are, to your mind, true and focused towards affecting precisely this situation.

  • Boltoph: “HOwever, I love your posts. Your heart is always in the right place!”
    and yours Boltoph.
    The Constitution is read in Isaiah, in Jeremiah, the protection of and principles of every individual human being is a secular gospel within the Holy Gospel. I will cite chapter and verse later.
    Kevin: “We must engage and defeat the pernicious sexual revolution.”
    Growing up I was allowed to say “God” everywhere, but I was not allowed to say “sex.” Almost grown up, I am prohibited from saying “God” anywhere and I am forced to utter “sex” and pornography everywhere. We, the people must protect and provide for our innocent posterity. This is the purpose and duty of government. The virtue of Justice must not be obliterated. Virtuous people are now the underground resistance, a virtual catacomb.

  • Botolph: I will remember the spelling of your name if you give me something with which to associate Botolph. I originally associated Botolph with my maternal grandfather Adolph, but as you can see, it did not work. Keep to the truth and forgive my spelling.

  • To your point Mary De Voe: I watched the Eagles game with my kids last night and was sufficiently embarrassed by the Erectile Dysfunction commercials that I didn’t turn on today’s games.

  • Philip: “God willing I will have my scapula on and Holy Rosary in hand on my death bed.”

    I hope to have my Rosary and my Bible on my death bed. Same principle

  • David Spaulding: I, too, am embarrassed by those ads which are an invasion of indecency into the innocence and virginity of our children who are legal minors and are un-emancipated and have no informed consent to give to be visually and verbally assaulted by an occasion of death as a side effect. It is very short-sighted of the promoters to destroy their future audiences. So be it.

  • It is a horrible thing when a religious institution becomes influenced by something like a lavender mafia. Does anyone knwo if Benedict stepped down do to pressure from this mafia? Did his retirement have anything to do with a homosexual group?

  • The Church is not a business, government or scouting organization.

    Any serpent close to Mary’s foot will be trampled.

  • I’ve been told at Mass today by our pastor that the position or title
    monsignor has been eliminated by Pope Francis. All monsignori
    under the age of 65 will be addressed as father. Perhaps this is
    the reform of the Church’s traditional structures that he promised.

    What other titles or positions will our pope discard: cardinal and
    pope?

    Why not appoint female or homosexual deacons. After all the reformed
    modern Catholic Church must be inclusive. Tolerance and inclusiveness
    are far more important that the Magisterium and Church traditions.

    It seems that our pope is an enthusiastic egalitarian.

  • “Any firm that does not announce that it is a proponent of the gay agenda would be a good start. ”

    Name names. Name an equivalent of E&Y they could have used.

  • Don’t ask me Ez, ask the Knights of Columbus, as I indicated in my prior response. They apparently have no difficulty finding firms that do not violate Church teachings. Ernst and Young is well known for pushing the gay agenda. The Vatican could not have made a worse choice than by hiring that firm.

  • I suppose its much more practical to offer solutions than criticise choices.

    It is unclear exactly what services E & Y were hired for, and why they were chosen. I do know they are excellent auditors.

  • “I suppose its much more practical to offer solutions”

    Which I just did by recommending that the Vatican have an organization like the Knights of Columbus recommend a firm. Really, this is not rocket science. This is a completely unnecessary foul up by whoever made this decision at the Vatican.

  • Paul W P.

    On Dec. 4th at 4:05am my dad’s soul was released from his earthly chamber.
    His love for Holy Church Mother Mary and devotion to The Infant Jesus of Prague was authentic.
    Happy Death! His eyebrows we’re tilted upward as if he had just received the Greatest Gift imaginable. The mouth was slightly smiling. This departure was beautiful and these tangible signs helped our family know that Pa was in Gods good graces when he went home.
    Thanks be to God.

    We must not cease to stand up and speak “truth” in this ungodly era of “my life…my decision…my truth.”
    They don’t know truth because they don’t know Him…the author of truth.
    We pray for All so that All can be found in him and in His Father. Father had given us to His son, and His Son wants us all together.
    Bible in hand indeed.

  • Donald,
    I very much doubt that you’ll find a world class audit firm whose credentials with respect to this issue differs significantly from E&Y’s. The best option might be a competent small firm or a mid-sized regional firm based in a less “western” part of the world. Sadly, there is nothing especially unique about E&Y’s policies among the Big 4 or other multinational professional services firms. EZ is correct that it is an excellent audit firm.

  • Mr. Mulvihill. I see your point. But these are consulting firms. The Church is free to choose firms that are at least not anti-Catholic. And the whole idea of paying huge sums of money to such sick businesses to do a service for “the Church of Jesus Christ,” His Mystical Body in its organizational mode, is more than problematic. It is disgraceful and hypocritical.

  • I very much doubt that you’ll find a world class audit firm whose credentials with respect to this issue differs significantly from E&Y’s.

    All the accounting firms in the world fancy they must go the extra mile to recruit people who make a public point of their sexual perversions?

  • OY! Every EU and US large corporation has that garbage in their recruiting materials, or else the powers that be go after them.

    I don’t defend audit firms. You know what CPA signifies? “Country-wide Prostitution Assoc.”

    For example, what are American generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) are? Whatever the clients want.

    The only way they’ll straighten out this mess is to have the SEC assign (draw lots) audits of large corporations. And, enforce Sarbanes-Oxley wherein a firm that advises/consults for a client cannot audit it.

  • Mike Petrik is right.

    Look at the websites of any major firm of accountants or solicitors and they all have a lengthy screed, listing their credentials as “equal opportunity employers.”

    Indeed, failure to do so might well attract unwelcome attention from their professional bodies or the Equal Opportunities Commission.

  • Ernst and Young is in a class by themselves when it comes to pandering to the gay rights activists:

    http://www.ey.com/UK/en/Newsroom/News-releases/12-01-11—Ernst-and-Young-named-top-gay-friendly-employer-in-the-country

    As I said, the Vatican could not have made a worse choice, assuming that living Church teaching is something the powers that be at the Vatican still care a fig about.

  • “…Vatican still care a fig about.”

    Funny if it wasn’t so true Donald.
    (the use of the fig)

    In scripture Jesus curses the fig tree for it didn’t bear any fruit. To date the pontificate of JPII is still bearing fruit.
    Who would of guessed that this Pole could topple the Communist block?

    The pontificate of Francis is still very young and if the tree is producing rotten fruit or no fruit the master of the tree will notice. He will.

    No coincidence that Blessed JPII died on Divine Mercy Sunday…a fruit that he helped cultivate with St. Faustina & Jesus.
    Let’s Trust in Jesus and pray the Francis tree bears good figs.

  • Look at the websites of any major firm of accountants or solicitors and they all have a lengthy screed, listing their credentials as “equal opportunity employers

    The term as originally used in this country (ca. 1966) meant the employer’s hiring practices were blind to certain protected categories incorporated into federal legislation enacted in 1964 (“race” and “national origin” and “sex”). It did not mean that ‘we make it a point to have more fellators on our staff’.

  • Art Deco

    The current list in the EU includes a good deal more: “Discrimination comprises any distinction applied between natural persons by reason of their origin, sex, family situation, physical appearance or patronymic, state of health, handicap, genetic characteristics, sexual morals or orientation, age, political opinions, union activities, or their membership or non-membership, true or supposed, of a given ethnic group, nation, race or religion.”
    That is before we come onto discrimination against “moral persons” (corporations)

  • Does the EU, like the USA, prove “discrimination” by observed “disparate outcomes”, what once was termed the “effects test”? As in: if said defined protected interest group is “under-reperesented” in a CPA firm or, say, the 2014 freshman class at Princeton: it is proven discrimination.

    That’s a far cry from the equal opportunity progtram we operated under in the early 1970′s: treat all fairly and equally.

  • he current list in the EU includes a good deal more: “Discrimination comprises any distinction applied between natural persons by reason of their origin, sex, family situation, physical appearance or patronymic, state of health, handicap, genetic characteristics, sexual morals or orientation, age, political opinions, union activities, or their membership or non-membership, true or supposed, of a given ethnic group, nation, race or religion.”

    That’s nice, Michael. Now, from that exhaustive list, how do I select a client group for which I will make special recruitment efforts? (Recall, sir, that if you’ve underlined everything, you’ve underlined nothing).

  • I strongly disagree with this post.

    Ernst & Young is one of a very small group of very large and very credible global audit firms. It’s actually a good sign that the Vatican is using them to clean up their finances. Yes, the fact that E&Y is one of the elite institutions in the global economy means that it professes some of the values generally held by the global elites in their hiring practices, but that really has nothing to do with their ability as an audit firm.

    Don suggests that the Knights of Columbus could suggest a better firm to work with, but it appears that the CFO of the Knights of Columbus was himself a E&Y partner for 12 years.

    Similarly, McKinsey and KPMG are some of the largest and most reputable companies in their fields. It’s arguably a good sign that the Vatican is making use of their services in technical fields.

    This, I would argue, is very different from when groups like the Catholic Campaign for Human Development provide funds to organizations which are not Catholic and do not have Catholic principles to do charitable work for them. That is a case of asking people who do not share the Church’s beliefs to do the Church’s missionary work for her is a massive mistake. Hiring professional service firms to audit the books, advice on PR, etc., however, is not a case of deputizing a non-Catholic firm to do the Church’s work for it, it’s just a matter of getting the best advisers for strictly administrative work.

  • From the charming CEO, up through last year, of Ernst & Young:

    “Last summer, Ernst & Young CEO James Turley became one of the first members of the Boy Scouts of America national board to speak out against the organization’s policy banning gay Scouts. Now that the Scouts are preparing to consider allowing gay Scouts (but not leaders), Turley has doubled down on his position, adding that he’s disappointed the Scouts will continue to discriminate:

    TURLEY: The Boy Scouts is a member- and volunteer-driven organization. That’s part of our strength, but it’s also a challenge when it comes to making change. This was an issue in the corporate world a dozen years ago. The difference is that, as a leader, you can say who we are, this is who we’re going to be, and let’s move forward. When we decided to offer domestic partner benefits to LGBT employees, I didn’t have to ask for a vote. The reality is that most of our partners were middle-aged white guys, and it probably wouldn’t have passed.

    I wish we’d gone further this time. I hoped it would have been more. But this is a substantial and significant change. There will be another vote in late May, and I’m hopeful and optimistic that some change will take place. I do not think that this should or will be the end of the debate.

    Turley’s clear implication is that continuing to discriminate against Scout leaders is the wrong thing to do, and it’s only because of the insistence of other members of the national board that the proposed change is limited. Scouts across the country are speaking out against it for the arbitrary way it removes gay Scouts after they reach the age of 18. Regardless of how the vote turns out this month, the fight for full inclusion in an otherwise worthwhile organization for young people will continue.”

    http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/05/13/2000961/ernst-young-ceo-wishes-boy-scouts-had-gone-further-to-end-anti-gay-discrimination/

  • Yes, the fact that E&Y is one of the elite institutions in the global economy means that it professes some of the values generally held by the global elites in their hiring practices, but that really has nothing to do with their ability as an audit firm.

    ==

    If they are making a point of recruiting sexual deviants, their personnel office has lost focus.

  • None of which has anything to do with their ability to do good financial auditing. The Vatican is wise to turn to one of the major audit firms, which means that they’re going to end up with E&Y, Deloitte, Price Waterhouse Coopers or KPMG. That they’re currently working with two out of the four is arguably a good sign.

  • “None of which has anything to do with their ability to do good financial auditing.”

    You actually think Darwin that turning over highly confidential financial information of the Vatican to a company obviously on a gay rights jihad is a good idea? If I were representing the Vatican in my legal capacity I would question the sanity of whoever came up with this idea. That of course leaves aside the question of whether the Vatican should hand out lucrative contracts to companies opposed to the teachings of the Church. Doing so strikes me as short sighted and completely wrong-headed.

  • I think that the Vatican’s highly confidential information is probably much safer with E&Y or KPMG than it is with some Italian cardinal’s nephew’s fly-by-night accounting firm — which too often has been the way things have been done in the past.

    These companies live by their reputation for doing their job cleanly and professionally (which is why Arthur Anderson isn’t in business anymore) and I think the Vatican can be pretty sure of not getting leaks and mismanagement from them. Yes, E&Y has some highly placed people who care a lot about gay rights. Big whoop. They’re not in the gay rights jihad business, they’re in the audit business.

    I suppose, all other things being equal, if there were equally reputable and skilled firms that were known to be run by people who were more informed by Christian beliefs, yeah I’d support hiring them instead. But none of the big audit or consulting firms come remotely close to fitting that bill and for this particular kind of work I think the Church is far wiser to hire a quality firm than to go with some small place on the theory they’re “good people”.

  • None of which has anything to do with their ability to do good financial auditing.

    The financial auditing is not done by rabbits, but by people. What other inanities have crept into their recruiting process? (I would remind you that Arthur Anderson had the largest income statement of any accounting firm in the country – until they didn’t).

    Italian cardinal’s nephew’s fly-by-night accounting firm — which too often has been the way things have been done in the past.

    What gave you that idea? (And while we are at it, why are you in the business of setting up false dichotomies)?

  • You actually think Darwin that turning over highly confidential financial information of the Vatican to a company obviously on a gay rights jihad is a good idea?

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/207326/one-and-many/john-derbyshire

    Search for “Leona Helmsley”

  • You might ask why it was that confidential information supplied to the IRS by the National Organization for Marriage ended up in their enemies’ hands. You get a critical mass of dubious characters in a gatekeeper position and disagreeable things happen.

  • and let’s not forget the vast number of gay cardinals, bishops, priests, nuns and popes!

  • T Shaw asks, “Does the EU, like the USA, prove “discrimination” by observed “disparate outcomes”, what once was termed the “effects test”?”

    No. Given the range of protection against discrimination, that would be impossible. It could, at best, be used to corroborate an individual claim of discrimination.

    Art Deco asks, “Now, from that exhaustive list, how do I select a client group for which I will make special recruitment efforts?” But the law does not require “special recruitment efforts”; it prohibits discrimination on any of the specified grounds. It requires equal treatment, nothing more.

  • But the law does not require “special recruitment efforts”; it prohibits discrimination on any of the specified grounds. It requires equal treatment, nothing more.

    MPS, please focus. These lousy accounting firms are not presenting themselves as companies which do not ask certain questions. They are presenting themselves as companies which make it a point to recruit and cosset sexual deviants.

  • So if Mao, Stalin and Hitler got together and formed by far the most efficient auditing firm, the Vatican would be wise to use their services? Nonsense! My son is a boy scout and I do think it is a “big whoop” that an activist in a powerful private firm can essentially bully the organization to abide by his lack of moral integrity. And please, these highly reputable firms may do good work but they don’t do magic. Yes, there are alternatives with companies who aren’t willing to sell their souls to gain the world. We are called to love the sinner, not to pay him or her to continue promoting sin. And that, DC, is what the Vatican is now doing by using E&Y,

  • Art Deco

    A failure to make clear in recruitment that members of all the protected groups are invited to apply would be a breach of the Directive.

    Similarly, tendering documents must make it clear that businesses are invited to tender, if their policies or composition falls within the protected classes.

  • Kevin

    Any firm large enough to undertake the contract will be doing business in one or more member states of the EU and will have to comply with the Discrimination Directive.

    That means they must make clear in their recruitment that they do not discriminate (inter alia) on grounds of “sexual morals or orientation.” this means, of course, that they must offer the same benefits to same-sex and opposite-sex spouses and civil partners.

  • Good selection of evidence Donald.
    ( James Turley’s words regarding the Boy Scouts and “change.”)

    Can we agree that God doesn’t change?
    What is unknown is the future leverage of these firms to sway Holy Church Teachings. Sounds preposterous…? Maybe, however allowing the influences of the likes of Mr. T. into sacred ground doesn’t sound prudent to this low educated Catholic.

  • MPS, I am sure that you are correct, but there is a difference with a company that complies and a company that promotes. Further, even if we only counted faithful Catholics, we are a big enough organization to afford and prosper by keeping much of our business within ourselves and like minded entities. We are big enough to encourage developing the kind of businesses we need. Look how the Jews and Mormons have built small financial empires by keeping the business within their families. I will admit the analogy is imperfect, but it does make a point.
    It seems to me we are past time in standing up for the Truth – publicly and confidently. We are talking about eternal destinies, not simply neutral lifestyle choices. The more we give in……the more we give in. The world needs to us to witness that we may be sinners, but we do not give up to sin. We will always have dealings with sinners, and we are called to as sinners ourselves, but on our terms. That is, we will not participate in your sinning and do our best to avoid and repent of our sins.
    So I have no qualms in going to the gay man who cuts my hair. We both know where the other stands and despite our discussion, remain friends. However, were he a proud supporter of NAMBLA or another militant homosexual group, I would go elsewhere.

  • Philip,

    God does not change, or to keep it within biblical terms, God is ‘emeth’, ever faithful and true. It is because He is faithful and true-Who can neither deceive nor be deceived-that we can believe Him and all that He reveals fully in Jesus Christ and the doctrines/dogmas of the Catholic Church.

    Philip, the head of this accounting firm will not have any influence on the teachings of the Catholic Church. Don’t be afraid.

  • Botolph, I agree it will have no influence on the Teachings/Doctrines of the Church. Truth in immutable. Nonetheless, they may have some influence on humans whose behavior and decisions mute or avoid “uncomfortable” dogma. Sadly we see this too often.

  • Kevin.

    Please allow me to enter in.
    The statement; “We are talking about eternal destinies, not simply neutral lifestyle choices.”

    You couldn’t be more spot on. It’s unfortunately not the paradigm many in the homosexual community wish to adhere to. None the less we will stand in the face of false mercy and aim higher. We must for that is why we exist. When we ponder on 2014 three hundred years from today we will say we didn’t do enough to defend the faith and help neighbor distinguish between real mercy and faux mercy.
    I have enjoyed your posts.
    Peace.

  • Kevin.

    That’s the whole point of the impending clean up and reform for the Curia. Elements within the Curia have held sway far too long. While those elements in the Curia-who have been at this a very long time-might be ‘influenced’, the Church is much bigger than the Curia. That is about to become very clear.

  • Botolph.

    Fear of souls falling into hell like snowflakes falling from the sky is my fear. St. Maximilian Kolbe preached that sanctification for yourself first, then for your community.
    In these fourteen years of practice prayer and penances I realize that true friendship with adversaries is vital. The two homosexual co-workers know my position but they see my honest attempts to befriend them, with the hope that they will seek God with chaste hearts. Just as God wishes from all of us. If and when the door opens my hope is that I’m a ambassador for true freedom for these men.

  • Philip,

    What you are giving is wonderful Catholic Christian witness. Truth with charity is our mainstay.

  • Practicing Catholic with emphasis on practicing. :)
    Thanks!

  • As it is considered good practice to change auditors on a regular basis, to prevent the development of a cosy relationship between auditors and senior management, I expect that we shall see the Vatican employing all of the Big Four on a rotating basis, changing auditors, say, every three years.

  • Just catching up on a few items:

    - As an Eagle Scout who’d hoped this sons would one day be in the Boy Scouts, I’m not pleased with Turley’s advocacy of changing Scout policies in regards to gay scouts either. However, he’s not simply some outside force who bullied the scouts into making the change. The scouts had invited him to become a member of their board, thus giving him considerable decision making power, and he then used the power to push for change in the direction which he through was desirable. Needless to say, E&Y being contracted to help audit the Vatican books does not give E&Y similar decision-making power or ability to speak for the Church.

    - I think it’s work questioning to what extent one should see E&Y as being peculiarly on a pro-gay jihad. It doesn’t appear to me that they are noteably more “pro-gay” than other major companies like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. Even companies the left loves to have, like Walmart, make a point of claiming that they are a good workplace for gay employees. Having worked at companies that make a big point of being workplaces that are welcoming to gays, you can work there and never hear or see anything about it except in the occasional HR memo. It’s not necessarily a company focus that impacts your daily activities, nor does it mean that you won’t find faithful Christians working there who don’t agree with the corporate policy.

    - I find the suggestion “what if Mao, Stalin and Hitler got together and formed by far the most efficient auditing firm” rather silly. Among other things, if those three men had restricted their professional lives to doing nothing but accounting, the world would unquestionably be a better place. I mean, seriously people. We’re talking about auditing firms. Have you ever dealt with a corporate financial audit? Working with these firms will not pollute Catholic doctrine or practice. All it will do is help keep track of money better in the Vatican and develop better administrative structures dealing strictly with money decisions. These kind of audits have nothing to do with what your mission is and everything to do with keeping track of money and documenting who makes decisions that have a financial impact.

  • MPS, Yes, exactly.

  • Agree with MPS and Darwin.

  • Philip and Boltolph, agreed that much penance, prayer and work are needed. Christ talked of fasting for driving out what the prayer fails to do and it is something I am taking under consideration. Ora et Labora. With charity, patience and humility. And let’s hope it will change the Curia soon.

    Mike and Darwin: The exaggerated example of a H,S and Mao firm is not silly if the point is that we hire competency regardless of the moral outlook of the company. It is the principle you were suggesting. If auditing firms only did auditing, and I have been through audits, then you might have a point. But that is not true. Some companies do things with the money they earn as with the boy scouts. You can say it was just an individual, but that is not accurate. He was invited on the board for the company MONEY, not because they thought he was a great guy (and he did bully them with $.) That is, in my experience, how most boards are formed.
    Also, how is it that we allow companies to say to us, “unless you accept the following we will not do business with you” or “we will withhold any financial participation” and we are not supposed to have the right to express the same? Or at least to negotiate something mutually acceptable? At what point are we supposed to boycott company behaviors we find morally repugnant? Is there a line we don’t cross? They are proud of standing up for what they believe, and yet, assured of the Truth we can’t be as devoted at standing up ourselves?
    OK, I am not suggesting that E&Y or similar promoters are evil incarnate, but were Jesus invited to speak at their shareholder’s meeting would he remain politely silent on their advocacy? Are we supposed to simply hold our noses, pay and thank them for a job well done while they are out their exerting their concept of morality on the world? Pope Frances expressed his concern about the kind of capitalism that runs the world…can’t we? Again, you fall back on that they are an accounting firm that is practicing excellent accounting, but it is not their accounting I have a problem with. Nor do I care for “everybody does it” argument my mother never let me use.

  • Well, there seems to be a bit of irony attached to the idea of consulting a group that stands for something you positively oppose. I do not consider this was done intentionally, but it strikes one as surely odd.

  • MPS and Darwin I agree.

    It’s accounting! What are E & Y going to do – recommend the Vatican put aside funds for Gay causes? Or buy less Baloney and cheap shoes ;) If the Vatican is transparent and Pope Francis is real about cleaning up alot of the admin, then there really is no problem handing information over to a highly professional firm like E &Y. It’s the best decision IMHO.

  • OK EZ. Again we are not talking about the accounting aspect. You are correct, accounting is accounting. We are talking about whether we (CC) should enrich a company that is publicly and actively pursuing morality that is antithetical to the Truth. And by this association helping to fund these activities. In this instance, one side believes that E&Y fits the above description and the other side seems we should turn a blind eye to their activities since it is not happening in our home and they do good work.
    Now if the claim is E&Y is not engaging in promoting any immorality (e.g. to the boy scouts) that is a different argument. Otherwise they may not promote less baloney for the Vatican, but perhaps they will restrict their funds, some which they get from the Vatican, from another organization and influence them like they did the boy scouts. (Oh, and there are certainly groups suing and trying to make the CC cave in on a number of issues.)
    So you see, it is not just accounting.

  • Kevin.
    Easy on Ez.
    It’s a New Year!
    Peace to All,
    born and unborn.

  • Forgive me if I sounded curt. Did not intend to. Mea culpa.

  • “The US Snail is a government monopoly.” – Please inform FedEx, UPS, DHL et al of that… they apparently didn’t get the memo…. (:>)

  • I am confident those organizations are quite aware of the Private Express Statutes which would land them in jail if they attempted to take away that monopoly:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes

  • It’s accounting! What are E & Y going to do – recommend the Vatican put aside funds for Gay causes?

    These complaints are addressed above.

  • Who does Barilla Pasta contract with for accounting services? Or are they being boycotted? ;)

  • Tamsin writes…”Who does Barilla Pasta contract with for accounting services? Or are they being boycotted?”

    Dewey Cheatham & Howe, of course. : )

  • MMM . . . pasta . . .

    No, wait!

    In a rabidly anti-Catholic US News op-ed, a certain Jamie Stiehm cites the issuance of a temporary stay by Justice Sotomayor (case of the Little Sisters of the Poor) to charge that Catholics have seized control of the Supreme Court — and goes on to say that Catholics generally should be banned from pisitions of power.

  • “…and goes on to say that Catholics generally should be banned from positions of power.” Catholics have lost the power over their own souls, consciences, freedom to truth and Justice and their tax dollars. Now, I am going to have some Barilla pasta.

  • Using a “Remote/Material Cooperation with Evil” analysis may be helpful to justify the Vatican’s hiring an accounting firm primarily for its audit services which “remotely” (but actively) promotes and supports alternative lifestyles in conflict with the Church’s teachings. While remote cooperation with evil may once have been applicable to individuals, extending its principles to the Church and its affiliates may be necessary to address changing cultural mores in the modern world.

    Recall that the federal government’s HHS “accomodation” permitted Church affiliated companies to distance themselves from the direct provision to employees of contraceptives/abortifacients by using “remote” insurance companies to provide funding for verboten products.

    The slippery slope that Catholic theologians stepped onto when it justified cooperating with evil in degrees, remotely or materially, may have just gotten a lot more slippery.

  • here’s a thought:

    2 Corinthians 6:14-17
    Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness? What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will live in them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you,

  • Anzlyne.

    Magnificent and appropriate. Well done…now pass the pasta.

  • Slainté

    Ah, yes! Remote material co-operation! But where today will we find theologians of the calibre of Antonio Escobar y Mendoza, Vincenzo Filliucci or Étienne Bauny to bring reassurance to troubled consciences?

    It was Bauny who cautioned, “Let confessors observe that they cannot absolve valets who perform base errands, if they consent to the sins of their masters; but the reverse holds true, if they have done the thing merely from a regard to their temporal emolument.”

  • MPS writes: “…..It was Bauny who cautioned, “Let confessors observe that they cannot absolve valets who perform base errands, if they consent to the sins of their masters; but the reverse holds true, if they have done the thing merely from a regard to their temporal emolument.”

    I think if that venerable, crusty, straight laced, very old fashioned Irishman from County Tyrone…Archbishop John Hughes…. met up with Monsieur Bauny, he would apply a well placed boot to Monsieur Bauny’s rear and summarily inform him that the purported valet was guilty as charged on all accounts in both scenarios and no forgiveness would be forthcoming barring a substantial and unremitting penance…this would especially be true when the good Archbishop learned that there was a ladder involved and someone was up it. : )

  • From another point of view, E & Y is cooperating remotely but materially in the evil they say we do.

    I gather that E&Y do not expect to be subject to boycotts, to lose other clients, because they provide services to the Vatican. Interesting.

    Perhaps an accommodation will be reached in America where Catholics can display a small emblem in the window of their stores in order to continue doing business?

  • Some of this scrupulocity is getting kind of ridiculous. We are not of the world, but are in it, and that world is fallen and imperfect. To suggest that a Catholic must investigate the various behaviors and beliefs of all parties with which we have social or commercial intercourse is really nuts. There is nothing remotely sinful about hiring E&Y, though I suppose it could fairly be regarded as imprudent given the risk of scandal or confusion.

  • Interesting point Tamsin Maybe they don’t want their liberal correct reputation be tarnished by association with us.

  • Mike Petrick writes: “…Some of this scrupulocity is getting kind of ridiculous….”

    Our Catholic tradition is rooted in both faith and reason and asserts that all things are purpose driven.

    Catholics must be able to explain to non-Catholics why our Church functions as it does in a clear and logical way; this is especially important as we encounter stepped up anti-Catholicism.

    I don’t know whether the “Remote/Material Co-operation with Evil” argument explains the Church ‘s election to hire firms whose principles are at odds with the tenets of our faith, but it would be helpful if the Vatican explained.

    The same standard applies to any Catholic agency that supports, directly or indirectly Planned Parenthood, ACORN or any other group whose tenets are at odds with Catholic principles.

  • Mike, I decided to pretty much drop from the discussion for now, but your comment has moved me to respond. Frist, I don’t think anyone pronounced the sinfulness of hiring E&Y other than it might be scandalous, imprudent or confusing – just as you ended your comment. Secondly, how is it over scrupulous to respond what is public record? Nobody suggested sneaking into and investigating the records of companies to find out if they might be unsuitable. Agreed, we should not be unreasonable in expecting perfection. However, if we are to spend considerable money should we not be comfortable that the company we use is both moral and ethical? If Planned Parenthood offered to provide legitimate healthcare like screenings or childcare, not contraceptives or abortions, to a Catholic agency would that be OK? Yes, exaggerative but only to underline the point. We have a moral obligation to see that our monies do not fund immoral ends and the Vatican should be especially careful to do so in their example. (I am saying this in general, not specifically about E&Y), I think this used to be called “prudential judgment.”

  • M- My last post is not meant as a comment on the worthiness of E&Y, only the principle involved.

  • I think if we use the cooperation model, there should be no problem. There is formal and material cooperation. Formal consists of approval of the evil action. Material is where there is no agreement with the evil but one’s cooperation may materially enable the evil action to take place. Then we distinguish proximate and remote material cooperation. The former is where the action could not take place without the cooperation. The later where there is little impact on the action of the cooperation. Formal cooperation and proximate material cooperation are always evil and not to be done. Remote cooperation is okay if the good that results may justify it and there is not accompanying scandal that may lead others to sin.

    Formal cooperation does not seem to be present. That is, the Vatican is not in approval of the accounting firm’s support of homosexuality. Is there material cooperation. At least not proximate as it seems the hiring of the firms does not actually enable the evil to occur. The providing of payments unlikely also enables the actions.

    The last question is is there scandal that results.

  • Good analysis, Phillip. Personally, I don’t see a scandal in hiring a Big 4 audit/consulting firm to perform a sophisticated audit/consulting task. It is regrettable that E&Y appears to be supportive of the normalization of homosexual behavior, but sadly their policies are in keeping with the zeitgeist. If they differ from similar firms, which is doubtful, it is in degree only. There is a culture war in the west, and at the moment we are losing that war. Consorting only with those who agree with us is neither practical nor really desireable. The question presented is whether the Vatican’s selection signals either indifference or a change in position on homosexual behavior (thereby confusing the faithful), and I don’t think a reasonable person could say yes. Without that, I think any “scandal” is simply manufactured. Plenty of good Catholics actually work for E&Y (and by no means are sinning in doing so), and some of them no doubt do their practical best to fight the good fight in a general cultural environment that does not allow for much success. Absent proximate material cooperation, we should be cautious about assuming that prudence requires that Catholics refrain from social or commercial intercourse with people or institutions with which we disagree.

  • Kevin, sorry its taken a while to respond…but if the argument is that the Vatican should not help fund companies that support deviant lifestyles and causes, then you’ll be hard-pressed to find an audit company as skilled as E&Y, that doesn’t. And if you do, then Ill eat my words! Gladly and humbly!

    If you refer to my previous comments, I challenge Donald, or anyone, for that matter, rather than criticising the Vatican’s decision to hire E&Y, to actually suggest an equivalent that is more aligned with the Church’s teachings. All Donald could suggest, is asking the Knights of Columbus…which to me suggests, you’ll be hard-pressed finding a world class E&Y equivalent. In other words, there isn’t one.

    If the Vatican has hired them for accounting and only accounting, then yes, it is about accounting at the end of the day. Many commenters suggested they will influence the Vatican or infiltrate the Vatican’s privacy. Rubbish! It is about accounting. That was The Vatican’s intentions.

    Nobody commenting on this blog, or on this earth, for that matter, is “an island unto themselves”- we all assist, directly sometimes, but indirectly most times, organisations that support or promote deviant lifestyles or causes. It’s out of our hands, because as many have wisely observed on this blog, we aren’t exactly winning the so- called “Culture Wars”.

    Just a query: Didn’t Prada used to make some of the previous Popes attire? Or is that a myth? If they did, then “hello”!! Prada=Fashion Industry=Gay Lifestyle!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

Follow TAC by Clicking on the Buttons Below
Bookmark and Share
Subscribe by eMail

Enter your email:

Recent Comments
Archives