What Voris Ought to Learn

The Catholic News Agency reported a few days that Michael Voris and his RealCatholicTV operation were facing some issues. First, it appears that the organization has failed to maintain its nonprofit status despite possibly promising such status to potential donors. Second, it appears that his right hand man Simon Rafe has written some questionable sexual-themed fiction, which Rafe has since taken down and apologized for.

Several bloggers, most notably Mark Shea and the Anchoress, have stated that this is a non-issue. To some extent they’re right. I don’t blame Voris for being confused by the myriad regulations surrounding the maintenance of non-profit status and having a friend who sins simply you have a friend.

However, this is not the kind of logic upon which Voris’s career is based. His arguments on based on showing oversights and associations which portray certain bishops and other Catholic figures as being bad Catholics. Are there donations from the CCHD that are going to bad places? Then shut down the CCHD and damn every bishop, especially the USCCB, that started or defended the drive.

Are those errors? No, and it is good for the bishops to be alerted to the situation and attempt to rectify it. But what Voris needs to learn is that the bishops are administrators with vast responsibilities: priests, parishes, finances, USCCB work, etc. and that’s before their own spiritual lives. When they make these kinds of mistakes, it doesn’t mean they are bad Catholics or not real Catholics. It means they’re human.

If Mr. Orthodoxy himself, the “Real Catholic,” can’t even keep track of the going-ons of a po-dunk operation like the RealCatholicTV and what his right-hand man is doing, how on earth can he expect the bishops who have far more personnel and organizations as their responsibility to do the same? I hope Mr. Voris learns humility from this episode and gains a better appreciation for the sometimes frightening burdens placed on our bishops and tempers his assaults accordingly.

34 Responses to What Voris Ought to Learn

  • Easy mr Lib careful what you call po dunk. Are you mirror gazing?

  • Unfortunately, I don’t think he’ll change. After all, his virulent polemics are the main selling point for his show.

  • Voris is a small man with no instincts toward the high road. He does not deserve the attention or defenses he has rec’d.

  • Spoken like true Libs. Chris change is inevitable but suffering is optional. Milla I think you should be more concerned of the road you are on.

  • Mr Denton, Voris’s criticism of our Bishops is just. These men allowed known sodomites and child molesters to run riot for years. Michael didn’t know what Rafe was doing, but when it was brought to light, appropiate action was taken right away by RCTV and St Michael’s Media. Our Bishops never did anything like this. They covered up, paid off, and continued on the road to damnation for years until the secular media laid bare their sins and hypocrisies. Yep, St Michael’s had their problems, bt they took care of them. Too many of our Bishops and their profesional Catholic toadies still refuse to do anything about the queers, heretics, social justice nuts, feminists and other wackos embedded in the Church structure. ntil then , God bless Michael Voris and his bad hair cut or bad wig! His head is on straight, even if his hair isn’t!

  • What you ought to learn, Mr. Denton, is a sense of humility yourself.

    There is no excuse for a bishop like Hubbard in Albany, NY dispensing heroin needles, eulogizing Cuomo and giving him Holy Communion while KNOWING Cuomo is living in sin with his concubine and Cuomo openly supports the sanctification of homosexual filth and the infanticide of the unborn.

    These bishops whom Voris puts on the carpet NEED to be put on the carpet. So what’s their reaction? Did Timothy Dolan throw out Hubbard as USCCB social justice prelate? NO. Did Hubbard and Dolan excommunicate Cuomo? NO. What happened is WYD having given Voris a warning that his organization was not approved for WYD. His was the ONLY organization so cited in all the YEARS WYD has gone on. Then when he shows up in Madrid anyways, CNA breaks with this news announcement about a lapse in 501(C) tax exempt status and an employee who wrote things he should not have. In the meantime CNA’s own tax exempt status was FOUR YEARS lapsed. And I am sure CNA (and TAC) likely have people with their own sex problems.

    The issue isn’t Simon Rafe or tax exempt status. The issue is that the bishops got caught with their pants down and they set this whole thing up to discredit Voris. I am not talking about a chancery that screws up its paperwork. I work in the nuclear power industry where the paperwork never ends and it’s real easy to screw up. Rather, I am talking about bishops who will NOT deal with Pelosi, Leahy, Biden, Kucinich, Kerry and all the rest, and who then cover up pedophilia while supporting that godlessly wicked man of sin and deparvity in the Oval Office. Look at their web site – filled with crap about that DREAM act. Salvation of souls means NOTHING to them. So they went to punish Voris for pointing that out.

    Yeah, sure, that’s speculation on my part. But dollars to donuts that’s exactly what happened.

    PS, if you are so self-assuredly sanctimonious about this, then maybe TAC should stop being a sponsor for RCTV’s regular daily Vortexes that many watch

    I love it when Voris calls those effeminate liberal Democrat clerics. This time – thank God – their smear campaign blew up in their faces.

  • One other thing: here is Michael Voris’s video response where he took full responsibility, doing exactly the opposite of what most of our liberal Democrat clerics do (as Stephen correctly pointed out):

    http://www.realcatholictv.com/response/

    And here is the transcript:

    http://www.realcatholictv.com/response/script.pdf

    When I see something similar from Bishop Hubbard of Albany and the rest of the liberal clerics, then I’ll have some respect for them.

  • about a lapse in 501(C) tax exempt status

    Unless something else has emerged, I did not see a lapse in 501(c)3 tax exempt status.

    501 status is under the federal tax code. What I read regarded his failure to file an annual STATE report which results in an administrative dissolution. That kind of sounds bad, but it is something that is ratehr easily corrected and happens quite often. It is closer to forgetting to renew your driver’s license on time, so your driving privileges are “suspended” until you get it cleared up – most likely, simply filing the report and paying a late penalty.

    That is hardly anything like the lapses Voris points out about his targets. Not even a difference in scale – it is a difference in kind. Would we have had the Great Catholic Enema of the past ten years if the problem was that several bishoprics around the US forgot to file their annual state information reports for the non-profit entities they headed up rather than the abuse scandal? Please, it would sound like something from the Onion. Voris may be abrasive, and perhaps could use some humility (as all of us), but to even try to paint this as some sort of “he screws up too” is a bit much.

    Of course he screws up, we all do. But his screw up is nothing compared to what he criticizes, and he at least man’s up about it and fixes it.

  • Look at their web site – filled with crap about that DREAM act. Salvation of souls means NOTHING to them.

    “Lord, when did we see thee a stranger, and did not minister to thee?”

  • ED: We’re not going to get into the DREAM Act on this thread.

  • A few points:

    I have no idea whether the Bishop of Albany has committed serious wrongs. I would note however that Mr. Voris appears to have had no success in changing his ways from what you write. I am sure that some of Voris’s targets deserve it. Often they do not because Voris jumps to conclusions in similar ways as could be done in this situation in order to attack their faith.

    This is not a set-up. The bishops didn’t forget to file paperwork nor did they write scandalous stories. While Voris’s arrogance and dissent (not only from the bishops but most importantly the Holy Father) was clearly manifest in Madrid, I doubt that affected anything more than causing someone to wonder “hmmm lemme look into this guy.”

    This is a not a DREAM Act thread. However, the bishops are obligated to inform the faithful on a number of issues, including immigration and abortion. The extent to which they do so and not focus on spiritual issues is a matter of prudence in light of the needs of the diocese. Perhaps bishops focus too much on certain issues but that’s a harder determination to make.

    TAC is a group blog, therefore decisions about the blog are made as a group, including decisions regarding what content to promote. However, the decisions of TAC don’t bind me as writer. Thus, I am free to criticize any of the bloggers or blogs to my right in my own posts.

  • Mr Denton, the only thing that Voris “dissents” from is the corruption and apathy in the Catholic hierarchy.

  • What’s fascinating about Vorisees is that they *talk* as though Voris is bravely facing (and being attacked by) them damn libruls, while in fact, nobody at places like the National Catholic Reporter, or America, or Commonweal cares a jot about Simon Rafe’s RPGs–only the Vorisees care about such things and only CNA (not particularly a rabid dissenting left wing rag) broke the story or cared about it. What Vorisees excel at is not facing off with dissenting Lefties, but encouraging inquisitors to go attack as fifth columnists those conservatives who are not, in their view, pure enough. Exhibit A: His recent demagogic attempt to passive-aggressively associate those who receive communion in the hand with Priscillianist heretics (and his McCarthyesesque smear of same as “self-communicating”. Exhibit B: Voris’ graceless, classless, Nixonian, passive-aggressive response to CNA (and the predictable pitchfork waving of Mr. Primavera and Mr. Dalton and other Vorisees in Pavlovian response to his act of passive incitement, as well as his ongoing aggression against “the bishops”) is poison. When will self-appointed orthodox cops stop making litmus tests out of matters which the Church herself treats with liberty?

    Thank you, Mr. Denton, for calling this man on his merciless “gospel”.

  • Ed: You will not insult people in my thread, especially fellow commenters. This is your final warning.

  • Such sheA comedian. Use bigger words and think a little deeper. On the wrong side again I see. The torture you so vehemently oppose qualifies your attacks on orthodoxy.

  • Mr Shea, the reason Voris and some of us cared about Simon Rafe’s RPG thing is that it was sexually explict and featured a sodomite character that someone could play in the game. Since you are always whining about gay bullies, I’m surprised you’re not concerned.
    Voris’s response to the CNA statement wasn’t “passive-agressive”. He simply pointed out that CNA did a hit piece that strangely came out just as He was in Madrid. What was He supposed to do, cover-up like some of the bishops have done in the past when confronted by a scandal? No, Mike Voris was totally transparent about what happened at RCTV. He admitted the problems and started to correct them. Simon Rafe admitted his wrongdoing and submitted to discipline. Yet, for some strange reason, that upset you. Why? Doesn’t the Bible tell us that that the angels in heaven rejoice more in heaven over one repentant sinner than 100 rightous men?
    As for MV’s agressive “poison” against the Bishops, people who cover for child molesting queers and heretics deserve to be publically shamed for their lack of zeal in protecting the flock from ravenous wolves. As a former member of a religious cult who’s whole ministery was nothing but a wolf pack, I’m grateful that Michael Voris cares enough about his fellow Catholics to expose these wolves and warn us about them. BTW Mark, I don’t own a pitchfork. A shotgun works better anyway.

  • Mr. Denton, I just won’t bother to comment in the future on your posts. I got a real job to do.

  • Mr. Primavera:

    By “insult” do you mean I should not use terms like “fat egotist”? You know, like you like to use? FWIW, my language was directed to Mr. Voris’ tactics. Your is directed to my person. Your defense is “Mark Shea is fat. So he is is wrong.” Sound logic, if you are in the third grade.

    Mr. Dalton: Classy threat of violence.

    I repeat: Thanks Mr. Denton for standing up to these bullies.

  • Oh Mark, nobody was being threatened with violence by my shotgun remark. I was just ridiculing your over the top remark about pitchforks. If you make remarks like this, expect people to laugh at how foolish they are.

  • Micheal,

    You make a good point in your analysis.

    Though, IMHO, Mr. Voris does fill a gap left by the leaderless direction of many, if not most bishops, in their divine commission to lead and protect the flock.

    Since the bishops have abdicated their roles as defender of the faith, Mr. Voris is a natural reaction as such.

    Nonetheless, Mr. Voris is human after all, but he is not a bishop with a divine mandate through apostolic succession. That squarely belongs on the bishops themselves (to lead).

    The bishops want to be liked and go-along to get-along, then they will certainly face their judgement by God.

    But it doesn’t mean they will face (correct in many respects) criticism for their lackluster leadership.

    Administration is part of the job, if they are more concerned in raising money than saving souls, they will and should called out for it in the most charitable manner.

  • Tito,

    I want to caution you on your use of “the bishops.” There are several bishops in this country who are inspiring defenders of the faith (Dolan, Chaput among them). I would venture to say that most of the bishops in this country are in this group, suggested not only for the election of Dolan at the USCCB but by their willingness to sacrifice healthcare when it became clear Obamacare would attack life.

    To be sure, there is a role for the laity in helping wayward bishops. I’m just not sure Voris is living out this role in a prudent or charitable manner.

  • Michael,

    When I mean “the bishops”, I mean a large amount, if not a slight majority of them (I am being charitable).

    There are rarely any inspiring leaders. Abp. Chaput is one (I refuse to not use their proper titles, because I do respect them even though you imply that I don’t).

    Abp. Dolan is questionable. He wants a strong central government to control our lives, so I doubt he understands the basics of subsidiarity.

    As far as their willingness, they were played by the Democratic Party-controlled-USCCB to believe that Obamacare would not attack life, which it did. Even if it didn’t, their liberal impulses overcame their Catholic mission in order to bring Big Government into evermore tighter control of our every day lives.

    There is a role to put bishops in line, and Voris is the product of the bishops dereliction of their duty. Because the bishops refused to stand up to the Spirit of Vatican II crowd and speak up for the eternal Truths of our faith, Michael Voris is the natural product of frustrated Catholics who are constantly marginalized for practicing their faith–by their very own bishops because they embarrass the bishops for being Catholic!

    If you feel offended by the term “the bishops”, you shouldn’t because they brought this upon themselves when they created the USCCB, which is solely used as a cover for their malfeasance in leading their flock(s), ie, us.

  • Tito,

    In your first comment, you criticized bishops for raising money over saving souls. I can’t help but think your second comment falls into a similar error. Politics is important, but ultimately the bishops need to evaluated on their saving of souls. While there are teaching from Catholic Social Justice about subsidiarity, I don’t think when Abp. Dolan goes to the pearly gates the first question will be “Now, how central of a government did you like?” A difference in politics on a question like subsidiarity that is relatively minor (if it was abortion or something like that, you’d have a better point) shouldn’t prevent us from saying “this bishop has helped saved souls.” Otherwise, I wonder what you think of the last two popes.

    The USCCB condemned Obamacare in the end. I think they deserve a lot of credit for that as they more than any other group pushed for healthcare reform. You may disagree with the reforms they desired, but you have to admire them for abandoning those desires in favor of life.

  • Michael,

    You’re correct, I don’t agree with their decision to take away our free will in governing our own lives by letting the government become our Big Brother.

    I’d like to point out that Michael Voris apologized and is rectifying the situation that has occured.

    How many bishops have apologized for their (gross) dereliction of duty?

    Not that they don’t have to because they have free will, but the contrast is stark.

    That said, you are quick to attack those that actually believe and practice the faith, yet you won’t wait a New York second to defend the indefensible.

    Just sayin’.

  • Tito,

    What indefensible thing I am defending? If the princes of the Church are “indefensible” then where does that leave our faith?

    Moreover, I think it’s rich to attack me for “attacking those who actually believe and practice” while defending Voris, who attacks every Catholic in sight.

  • Michael,

    You know exactly what I meant.

    You defend their actions, not the bishops themselves

    So you (by your lack of calling these bishops out) defend the bishops silence on pedophilia, pro-abortion Catholics, pro-life issues, and more. (just to cite examples)

    Your descending into hysterics. If Michael Voris is attacking every Catholic in sight, then I can’t continue debating with someone who believes his own hyperbole.

  • You defend their actions, not the bishops themselves

    Tito. Where did I defend the actions you name? I’ve said nothing whatsoever about the silence of pedophilia. I think the bishops clearly made mistakes; due to naivety in some cases and pure indifference to the safety of children in the quest for sexual liberation in others. Most of those bishops are no longer with us, I imagine.

    I think the bishops deserve some praise on pro-life issues but with almost every issue in the Church today there is much work still to be done to get to the proper level. I also think bishops have the power to excommunicate or deny Communion to Catholic public figures who publicly deny Church teachings and refuse to engage Church teachings. However, I think that decision is one of prudence and spiritual direction which I defer to the bishops; nevertheless, I think that the silence of the bishops on this point as a whole is disappointing.

    I think the bishops are wrong quite frequently. But that doesn’t mean they’re poor Catholics. It means they need prayers and in some cases public discussion. Voris is not a discussion; it’s a rant which contains no mercy and no love. I don’t thin Voris has managed to do anything other than give himself a career; I don’t see how realcatholictv has changed anything for the better.

    Hyperbole is not hysterics, and the point remains. Voris has styled himself as one who attacks impure Catholics. Voris frequently attacks or undermines those he ought to help, with his counter-event in Madrid a prime example. If Voris is going to undermine the pope’s World Youth Day, does he have respect for any of the Church’s leaders? And if Pope Benedict XVI isn’t Catholic enough, who is?

  • Michael,

    I didn’t say the bishops are poor Catholics.

    My whole point is that because of the vacuum of leadership, Michael Voris is the result of their frequent inaction.

    As for WYD, I find it difficult to believe he went there to undermine the Pope. I truly believe he went there to educate. But that’s another point not worth pursuing in this Combox.

    I can’t wait to get into College Football ranking discussion.

    ;)

  • Denton you’re lost. Tito nice!

  • Mr. Primavera:

    I don’t want to distract you from your “real job” so I deleted your juvenile comment.

  • I think the devil loves this thread. Good Catholics all taking roundhouse swings at each other. You can almost see him slinking away with a small smile.

  • Mark Shea has an excellent discussion of this situation today at the Register.

    http://www.ncregister.com/blog/mark-shea/in-criticism-of-michael-voris/

  • Voris has plenty for which to be criticized – perhaps it is true his style is not conducive to reform and lacks charity. But the particular criticism that surfaced that I found rather embarassingly weak was the one about the non-profit status. And at least at this point it seems he has done the best he can and what is within his power to correct the wayward employee. On those two counts, at least, I can’t find much to criticize.

    As for undermining the Pope, it is possible Voris’s WYD side show may have had that effect, but I would find it difficult to believe that would have been his intent, particularly based upon the few clips I have seen where he mentions the Pope. I haven’t seen anythnig disparaging (perhaps the closest would be comments that bring to mind the Pope as a beleagured general trying to do the right thing but undermined by many of his troops – which, frankly, I can not say is completely unreasonable and doesn’t sound disparaging to the Pope at all).

    On the whole, like most, MV is a mixed bag.

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