A One State Solution for Peace in the Middle East
No, no Klavan on the culture! Everyone knows that if the Jews would simply disappear the Arab world would become an oasis of peace and tolerance! At least that is what I have been told over the years by numerous combox adversaries and correspondents. Prior to becoming a blogger, I would comment on other Catholic blogs, and one of my favorits sites was Amy Welborn’s Open Book. After commenting there one day I received a lengthy e-mail from a correspondent who I responded to in a fisk format. This correspondence occurred on April 17, 2007, and I thought that some of our readers might find it diverting:
1.”Not even the Bush people peddle that line. 93% of the Iraqi’s want the American soliders out of
the country. The only reason we are there is because the PNAC manifesto was adopted by Bush and others and a bogus war was launched. This was to neutralize Iraq and secure the oil fields, and the all important pipline to Haifa.”
PNAC manifesto causing the invasion of Iraq? Please, that is tinfoil hat wearing conspiratorial garbage and unworthy of a response. We went to war against Saddam for numerous reasons, all of which were set forth in the Congressional Authorization for the Use of Force. As for the Iraqi people, their freely elected government can ask us to depart at any time and we will. They haven’t yet because they realize the blood bath that would ensue if US forces were to depart right now.
2. “Saddam was a dictator but one who allowed Catholics to practice their faith. America has installed more dictators in the world in the past 150 years, than there are states in our union. “
Actually the US has worked with the local governments thrown up by competing factions in other nations. The idea that the US is a malign force preventing people from choosing their own governments is ahistoric. Of course you hold this belief while also condemning the US for toppling a dictator and fostering democracy in Iraq. The US in your eyes is evil if it works with a dictator and evil if it topples a dictator. As to Catholics in Iraq, they made up their fair share of Saddam’s victims, and now are under assault from the Jihadists who we are fighting. You of course would like us to withdraw yesterday and leave these fellow Catholics to the tender mercy of the beheaders.
3. “John NegroPonte turned a blind eye to the massacres in Central America in the 1980’s. And he is just one of many with blood soaked hands that helped push this war in Iraq. “
Balderdash. The Reagan policy in Central America prevented the creation of a series of little Cubas where the populations would have to endure the type of tyranny that has caused millions of Cubans to flee their own country. The attitude of the Sandanistas when the Pope visited Nicaragua in the 80s showed the contempt the Marxists had for the Catholic faith.
4. “America was not threatened by Iraq. and if Iraq had WMD’s at one time, it is because America sold them to Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld was the salesman in 1983!”
You really don’t know your history do you? The US had zero involvement in any chemical weapons produced by Saddam. His arms purchases from the US during 1973-1990 constituted .5% of total arms sales to Iraq Arms from the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact totaled 68.9%, France 12.7% and mainland China 11.8%. Source: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. As to Iraq not constituting a, threat are you kidding me? In 1990 Saddam attempted to corner the world oil market by seizing Kuwait. He failed to honor any of the terms of the truce which ended the First Gulf War. He was up his eyeballs in the first World Trade Center bombing and an attempt to assassinate Bush 41. Through the oil for food scam he was rapidly rebuilding his military. He had links, and had given funding, to most Arab terrorist groups. He was a clear and present danger.
5. “Israel has 800-2000 nukes, and yet not one American politician calls for inspections. If they have nukes they are not allowed to receive any aid. israel kiiled 34 unarmed americans in 1967. Iraq has killed no Americans, until forced to defend itself.”
Got a thing about Jews don’t you? It doesn’t matter to us if Israel has nukes. They are not a threat to us, just as we do not care that the Brits or the French have nukes. Iraq didn’t kill many Americans during the First Gulf War, but it wasn’t for want of trying, or do you contend that Iraq was merely defending itself when it invaded Kuwait? As for the attack on the Liberty, Israel instantly apologized and paid compensation to the families of the survivors. In other words it acted like a friendly power that had made a mistake and not an enemy power out to kill Americans.
6. “George Bush is a man who has introduced real WMD’s into the nation of Iraq by using depleted Urainium.”
You really have got to stop getting your information from Moonbat sites on the net. Depleted uranium rounds pose no health risk except to occupants of an armored vehicle when the rounds slam home.
7.“Any Catholic who supports Bush and his Neo Bolsheviks in their pursuit of plundering other nations is acting in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church ,which has ruled this war totally unjust. “
The Church hasn’t ruled the war unjust, and all the neo-Bolsheviks probably contribute to anti-Bush sites you frequent. You will find a lot of them under a group known as A.N.S.W.E.R.
My respondent digested what I had said, and responded the next day. I gave him another fisk response:
8. “Your responses offer a level of obstinate ignorance in the face of indisputable truth.”
That statement has as much substance as “No, I’m right, you’re wrong.”
9. “Please look up the definition of delusional.”
Why, when I see such a fine example of it in your ravings?
10. “Yes, the good ole USA only acts to do good and help other nations all the time. And Jews are the friends of America.”
Yes almost all the time to the first, and most Jews I believe are friends of America due to our lack of persecution of members of their faith, no doubt to your dismay.
11. “Do you also believe the Jews who brutally took over Palestine in 1946-1948 did so because God wanted them there.”
No, they created Israel by accepting the UN division of Palestine. The Palestinians did not because they thought they could exterminate the Jews with the aid of the armies of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Egypt. Big mistake. To the astonishment of the world, the outnumbered Jews won.
12. “Look, you are 100% wrong on the USS Liberty. Obviously you never served in the military.”
Three years in the US Army Reserves 1975-78.
13. “The radar codes that are emitted from ships have a unique fingerprint which identifies them as US. French etc… The Israel defense forces had to jam our radar in order to prevent the USS Liberty from radioing for help. That means they had to jam USA military codes. It was not a mistake and our American flag on that ship was 15 x 30. 2 Israeli pilots were punished for refusing to attack the ship becasue they knew it was American. Israel never admitted it was a mistake. “
Too bad every official report has found that the attack was a tragic error caused by the Israeli pilots misidentifying the ship. You can find these reports online:
U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry, June 18, 1967
” Available evidence combines to indicate the attack on the Liberty on 8 June was in fact a case of mistaken identity.”
CIA Report, June 13, 1967
The attack was a mistake.
In 1978, in a response to an inquiry, Director of Central Intelligence Stansfield Turner wrote: “It remains our best judgment that the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty was not made in malice toward the United States and was a mistake.”
Joint Chiefs of Staff, Russ Report, June 9-20, 1967. General Russ did not make any findings about the actual attack. The report compiled all message traffic and contains no evidence that the attack was not a mistake.
Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, Clifford Report, July 18, 1967
“The information thus far available does not reflect that the Israeli high command made a premeditated attack on a ship known to be American…. ”
National Security Agency, 1981
“Liberty was mistaken for an Egyptian ship as a result of miscalculation and egregious errors.”
Ram Ron Commission of Inquiry, June 16, 1967
“[T]he attack on the ship by the Israeli Defense Forces was made neither maliciously nor in gross negligence, but as a result of a bona fide mistake.”
14. “You think DU is not toxic? Then why was it banned under international treaties? The known birth defects from its use are well documented.”
More Moonbattery. Here are the facts:
“A new study finds the health risks from inhaling airborne particles of depleted uranium are very low.
The Capstone Study found that even soldiers in armored vehicles hit by depleted-uranium munitions would still not suffer health risks from inhaling the particles. Of course, officials said, soldiers would certainly have other problems if their tank or armored personnel carrier was hit by a depleted- uranium round.
The U.S. military uses depleted uranium as armor and in munitions. The five- year, $6 million study, analyzed for the Army and the DoD Deployment Health Support Directorate by Batelle Memorial Institute, found that even in extreme cases exposure to “aerosolized” depleted uranium did not pose a health risk.”
15.“America sold Iraq its WMD and it was Donald Rumsfeld who was the salesman.”
Only in Moonbat land. The US sold no chemical or biological weapons to Iraq.
16. “You forget that John Negroponte helped to organize and fund the death squads in Guatemala under General Martinez, a man responsible for50,000 deaths in the region. General Martinez was his most frequent lunch guest.”
You can’t even keep the info you get from kook leftist or paleocon web sites straight. Negroponte was ambassador to Honduras not Guatemala. General Gustavo Alvarez Martinez is probably the man you are attempting to refer to. He was the head of the Honduran military while Negroponte was ambassador. As for the figure of 50,000, here is the reality: “The human rights situation deteriorated significantly after the return to civilian rule in 1982. Under the new civilian president, the military, under the command of General Gustavo Álvarez Martínez, initiated a campaign against leftists. This campaign allegedly led to the disappearance of more than 100 people. Small insurgent groups also began operating during this period, but the overwhelming majority of political killings were carried out by the military, according to human rights observers. Although this violence paled in comparison to that in neighboring El Salvador and Guatemala, it marked a departure from the relatively tranquil Honduran political environment. ” Source: Library of Congress Country Studies. Where you get the 50,000 figure from, only God and the Moonbats know.
17. “The Downing Street memos prove that Bush had no reason to invade Iraq. He went with WMD because there was no link to Osama or anyone else. The war is all about reordering the Middle east according to the PNAC manifesto which if you ever read it, which you have not, clearly outlines regime change in Iraq, Syria and Iran, as good for the United States”
Actually virtually every intelligence agency on Earth thought that Saddam had WMDs. His own generals were shocked during the war when Saddam did not order the use of chemical weapons because they assumed he had them. The rest of what you say is typical of the type of paranoia common among conspiracy mongers.
18. “As to the Israelis and their illegal nukes, why are you so willing to turn a blind eye to the law?”
Actually, Israel possessing nukes is no more illegal than the US possessing nukes. I assume that your statement is merely rhetorical, and you are not referring to a specific statute of Israel that would prevent it from having nuclear weapons.
19. “I assuem you are a Jewish Zionist. Let me encourage you to convert to the One True Faith soon, as the blood curse your forefathers called down upon you, will remain with you, until you are baptized.”
Actually, as you might have guessed from my name, my forebears are Scots and Irish with a few Cherokees tossed in for seasoning. I am a Catholic as you might also have guessed from my frequent posts at Open Book. As for you, you are a deluded anti-Semite. Here is something for you to contemplate. Saint Ignatius of Loyola was warned that one of his novices might have Jewish blood. This was at a time when such a charge was serious business in Spain. The Saint responded how fortunate for the novice in having a blood kinship with Our Lord and His mother.
Free yourself from the foul hatred that obviously has you in its grip, lest it be held against you when your soul comes before Christ.
I actually felt great pity for the fellow. His main motivation was obviously hate: hate of Bush, neo-Cons and, above all, Jews. He seized upon material he obviously didn’t understand well at all in order to buttress his hates. It is a sad way to go through life.