Civilizational Love Triangle: Will Islam Seduce You?

geert-wilders-03

The recent success of Geert Wilders and his Party for Freedom (PVV) in the Netherlands has caused European and, to a lesser extent, North American leftists a certain amount of discomfort, and a silently growing segment of the population a significant amount of joy. The Islamification of Europe through what the brilliant Mark Steyn has called “creeping sharia” has finally met its first formidable and successful political challenge – in spite of its long-standing threats and fatwas against the man of the hour.

I’ll be quite straight-forward about it; I’m with Geert, at least on the big issue he confronts. Those who label him as a racist, and his position as one of “hate”, are engaging in character assassination. A symposium at FrontPage Magazine addressed the Wilders phenomenon. One of the contributors, Roger L. Simon, stated:

I believe that consciously or unconsciously those who brand him as excessive, or even racist, are living in fear that he may be right.  They have to hate Wilders, because if he is correct, their whole world disintegrates. Who would want that?

I don’t hate Muslims. Not wanting to be ruled by sharia law, be reduced to second-class status, have my freedoms curtailed, and watch my fellow female citizens be subjugated isn’t about hatred of Muslims, but love of Western and Christian civilization and those who inhabit it and benefit from it along with me. It isn’t a matter of indifference to me, and it shouldn’t be to you, whether or not Western or Islamic values prevail. What happens in Europe, moreover, may well happen here in the United States in the future, and will affect us in the present.

But at least since Michel Foucault traveled to Iran as a journalist during the Islamic revolution, Western leftist intellectuals who hate their own civilization have been fascinated – according to one book on Foucault, seduced – by the anti-Western aims of radical Islam. We may hear that this irrational, obtuse, and self-destructive “tolerance” of the worst tendencies of Islam and the more widespread problems associated with mass, rapid immigration is all about upholding our ideals of equality, fairness, freedom, etc. In reality it is about something else entirely. As an author for The Brussels Journal put it,

The extreme Left didn’t succeed in staging a violent revolution in the West, so they decided to go for a permanent, structural revolution instead. They now hope that immigrants can provide raw material for a violent rebellion, especially since many of them are Muslims who have displayed such a wonderful talent for violence and destruction. The Western Left are importing a new proletariat, since the previous one disappointed them.

Such is the nature of the alliance between the secular left, and Islam. We see it even more clearly in the chumminess between leftist dictators such as Hugo Chavez and the president of Iran.

Back in Europe, the feminists will have to remain quiet, or Gordon Brown might call them bigots too. They might learn something of what it has been like to be a part of the native lumpen-proletariat, which competes with immigrants for jobs, or the conservative middle classes, which compete with them for culture. The guilt-ridden academics and vote-pimping politicians, mostly male, mostly white, have decided that diversity is more important.

Where are the Christians? In Europe, they appear to be almost a non-entity. Maybe they do this and that here and there – but I’m a casual American observer of European politics. They don’t show up on my radar, which means whatever they do isn’t significant enough to make international waves, or even ripples. Well, ok, sometimes it is.

I don’t include the stories I regularly read of nominal Christians either capitulating to, or in some cases, joining the madness. These people will be, and probably deserve to be, destroyed by Islam. Nor do I count most “Christian Democrats.”

And yet, something may be occurring finally for the embattled Christians of Europe. In his speeches, Geert Wilders often invokes the idea that Christians and Jews have a stake in his fight against Islamification – though Wilders himself is an atheist and devout secularist. Why make the appeal unless Christians are out there, somewhere, contemplating the possibility of doing something?

For the sake of hope and argument, I will assume they are. What should they do? Should they grasp Geert’s outreached hand, keep to themselves, or pull a Foucault of their own and consider allying with Islam against the secular ruling elite?

Because I don’t know about or understand all of the particulars of European politics, I’m not offering this as advice to European Christians, but merely as a sort of hypothetical scenario. In recent discussions here at TAC, between Tim Shipe, myself, and others, Tim floated the merits of a Christian-Islamic alliance against secularism. I think he was being rather tongue-in-cheek, though, when he wrote,

if abortion and legalization of gay marriage is our only true meeting ground for orthodox Catholics in the political realm, then Muslims would seem to be closer allies to us than the liberal and conservative secularists/libertarians who seem to have the upper hand in our society these days

He was attempting, in other words, to force what I think is a caricature of some conservative Catholics into a bind. On the other hand, given the nature of the entire discussion, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Tim, or someone who thinks along similar lines, really would choose Islam over secularism (and to be clear, an increasingly “conservative” brand of secularism a la Wilders, not the dominant leftist brand) as a potential ally.

It is a seductive argument: Muslims have “family values”, they oppose various threats to life recognize by Catholics, as well as many forms of perversion. From at least one angle Christians have more of a cause to ally with Islam than the secular left did/does.

I offered up some arguments against this view, and for accepting Geert’s invitation, and I will re-state them here.

Islam, whether by force, conversion, or a higher birth rate, or all of the above, will not simply “co-exist” with Christianity; it will seek to dominate it and oppress it. It doesn’t matter if we both think gay marriage is a bad idea, for an infidel is an infidel. Yes, Islam has tolerated Christian minorities historically, but only selectively. Sometimes it has sought to completely wipe them off the map. Ask the Christians of Lebanon; that 40% of the Lebanese population is all that remains of a once predominantly Christian Middle East, and only because they defend their culture and their religion against Islam with armed militias.

Islam won’t co-exist with secularism either, of course. As soon as it can, it will wipe secularism off the face of the planet. Thousands of jihadists flocked to Afghanistan to fight the “godless Soviets” before they turned on the Great Satan, and they haven’t forgotten how much they hate atheism. But most of the secular leftists don’t plan on having children anyway – they plan on wiping themselves off the face of the planet in order to save it.

But let’s say a considerable chunk of secularists with still-functioning brains wake up. They don’t want to become Christians, but they really don’t want to live under sharia law. They stop melodramatically overreacting to the “Christian right”, which has never really done anyone any harm, and start waking up to the dangers of Islamification. I think this will happen, and is happening, by the way.

Christians can safely ally with them, I believe. As I told Tim, because even conservative secularists will never value procreation as much as Christians do,

If the world were comprised of nothing but wavering Christians and militant secularists, wavering Christians would win by default.

And imagine what committed Christians can do! Mormon Utah, where at least some religion that we might vaguely consider Christian is the dominant cultural and political force, has the highest birth and fertility rate in the United States and probably the Western world.

I’d rather live in a world in which Christians compete with secularists for influence and power than one in which they compete with Islam. If you thought secularists were intolerant of Christian evangelizing, try to evangelize Muslims in a predominantly Muslim culture. Islam is resistant to conversion, to the point of violence, sanctioned in many cases by Islamic law.

As things stand now, Islam would win the competition – Islam wants to win, and will do almost anything to win. Secularism will ultimately lose, because it isn’t a viable way of life. It isn’t interested in perpetuating itself from generation to generation, because it ultimately does not value new generations. Philosopher David Benatar has provided the latest rationalization, to add to the environmental hysteria – it may be better to not-exist than to exist, and if so, we probably shouldn’t be bringing new beings into existence to suffer.

Against this utter insanity, only Christianity can save the West. Some secularists, such as Geert Wilders, and even famous intellectuals such as Jurgen Habermas, may be growing wise to it.  If more do, then we may finally see a reversal of the disastrous regime of political correctness and multiculturalism, of the suppression of Christian views in the political and cultural spheres under the false mantle of fighting “hate”, the denigration of the family and stigmatization of having really large families in particular, more restrictions if not outright bans on abortion, and so on. And so we should meet them half-way.

19 Responses to Civilizational Love Triangle: Will Islam Seduce You?

  • Joe Hargrave says:

    Also see Steyn on Wilders:

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/18/the-absurd-trial-of-geert-wilders/

    “At a certain level, the trial of Geert Wilders for the crime of “group insult” of Islam is déjà vu all over again. For as the spokesperson for the Openbaar Ministerie put it, “It is irrelevant whether Wilders’s witnesses might prove Wilders’s observations to be correct. What’s relevant is that his observations are illegal.””

  • Tito Edwards says:

    There is very little cause for Christians to work with Muslims on any level when Muslims in the end want to eliminate us at all costs.

    Look at the Christians in the Middle East, what’s left of them that is.

  • j. christian says:

    At least the post-Christian, secular West is a “Christ-haunted” culture. Despite its flaws, it makes a much more sensible ally than that implacable other.

  • T. Shaw says:

    Those with no arguments other than ad hominems, insults and lies “label him as a racist, and his position as one of ‘hate’.”

    Apparently, truth is illegal in certain jurisdictions. Will we allow it in the USA?

  • American Knight says:

    Tea Parties are racists, New Black Muslim Panthers aren’t.

    Clearly you people haven’t updated your facts. We are in a new age and our thinking must be new. Muslims are peaceful even when they are trying to kill us.

    Western people are all racists even if they aren’t ‘white’. Why can’t you learn your lessons? Four legs good, two legs bad. It is the Newspeak that leads to Groupthink.

    See Isaiah 5:20.

  • Bonald says:

    While Mr. Hargave and I surely share the same goals, I must strongly disagree. Perhaps you will find me misguided, but I think this conversation will gain from an advocate for the other side.

    It is simply too repugnant to me to think that I should join in Geert Wilders’ crusade to make the world safe for blasphemy and sodomy in an assault on my fellow monotheists. The core of Islam is recognition of God’s soevereignty; the core of liberalism is a hatred of authority and every other manifestation of God’s presence in the community. If it were only a question of intrinsic value, our choice between the two should be clear.

    Furthermore, I strongly doubt that Islam is the greater danger to us. You claim that 40% of Lebanon is Christian; I say that that means Lebanese Christianity under Islam has fared far better than European Christianity under liberalism, which has shrunk to the point of virtual nonexistence. You say that Islam is the worse persecutor; I say that it wasn’t Islam that inflicted the Jacobin Terror, the Spanish Republican Terror, and the Bolshevik Terror on us. You think that Christians will win out over liberals because we have more children. I used to think that; I desperately wanted it to be true, but it isn’t. The liberals still win, because they brainwash our children through school and television into joining them.

    Thank you for allowing me to have my say, and thank you for raising such a crucial topic.

  • American Knight says:

    Sadly, Lebanon’s Christian population is now less than 40% and dropping. Their are many faithful Christians in Lebanon and Our Lady of Harissa watches over them. Unfortunately, many Lebanese Christians are essentially secularists.

    Christianity is not faring better under Islam; however, our faith tends to be strenghtened through trial so those who remain authentically faithful under persecution, and make no confusion – living under Islam is persecution, probably have a stronger faith than we do.

    As for Jacobins, Bolsheviks and all other manner of ills that plague the West – those are punishments for our infidelity as much as Islam is. The collectivist and worldly sentiment is the same as it is in Islam. The difference is that Islam overlays a religious veneer on top of the fascism.

    It is hardly true that Muslims are fellow monotheists. The god of Islam is not the One Triune God and their god is not consubstantial with Jesus the Christ of God. Before you tell me that Jews don’t believe in the Trinity either – the difference is that orthodox Jews do believe in the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and the inerrancy of the Law and the Prophets and believe in the Messiah, although they make the mistake of denying that Jesus is Him. Their error is a historical error. Believing that the OT prophecy has not been fulfilled. Islam is a heresy at best and more likely a false religion that was fabricated after the Incarnation, not before like the Hebrew faith.

  • Joe Hargrave says:

    Bonald,

    Things would get petty boring around here if everyone agreed all the time. The respectful tone of your post makes your disagreement a pleasure to engage :)

    “It is simply too repugnant to me to think that I should join in Geert Wilders’ crusade to make the world safe for blasphemy and sodomy in an assault on my fellow monotheists.”

    We can and always must remain faithful to Catholic teaching on the subject, and we must never be afraid to proclaim it, and we must never waver in our political defense of traditional marriage (I signed the Manhattan Declaration to that end). That is a battle we may still be able to win. But we’re never going to be able to criminalize either blasphemy or sodomy in the West again.

    Muslims aren’t our fellow anything. It’s not that I reject them; they reject us. They don’t care if you’re a monotheist in the end. It might mean they hate you a little less than they hate homosexual atheists. But once they’ve finished with them, don’t imagine you aren’t next.

    I think if the as of now slight trend among some secularists to re-evaluate the positive and necessary role of Christianity in the West continues, however, we will be able ascend once more.

    “The core of Islam is recognition of God’s soevereignty; the core of liberalism is a hatred of authority and every other manifestation of God’s presence in the community.”

    I think this hatred is going to be tempered in the future. All liberalism needs to do is tolerate Christianity in order for Christianity to thrive; the Islamic idea of “tolerance”, on the other hand, will leave absolutely no space for Christianity to thrive.

    “If it were only a question of intrinsic value, our choice between the two should be clear.”

    But it never is only such a question, is it? So you can say “if this” or “if that”, and I might even agree – but I’m ultimately more concerned with “because x is, we ought to consider y.” That’s my priority.

    “Furthermore, I strongly doubt that Islam is the greater danger to us. You claim that 40% of Lebanon is Christian; I say that that means Lebanese Christianity under Islam has fared far better than European Christianity under liberalism, which has shrunk to the point of virtual nonexistence.”

    Hardly. Christianity survives in Lebanon in SPITE of Islam. For one, historically, the Christians of Lebanon have been concentrated in mountain regions that have been almost impossible to control with conventional military forces – the Sultans had to send in ridiculously large and disproportionate armies to quell Maronite rebellions, and in the end it was more effective to simply contain the Christians rather than kill them.

    For another, the Christians of Lebanon were not, and are not (for the most part) guilt-ridden cowards who harbor a deep resentment for their own culture and religion, such as we see dominating the West today. The Lebanese Christians formed the Phalange, now the Kataeb Party, which is a political party and a militia. They’ve guarded their culture and religion with arms against both Arab secular socialism and Islam.

    Finally, for all that, Lebanese Christians and right-leaning secularists DO collaborate and cooperate against the Muslims (Hezbollah) and their secular leftist allies – the Phalange/Kataeb is officially secular, even though most of its members are Maronites. They have no choice.

    “You say that Islam is the worse persecutor; I say that it wasn’t Islam that inflicted the Jacobin Terror, the Spanish Republican Terror, and the Bolshevik Terror on us.”

    Of course not, but today’s secularists are hardly Bolsheviks. Bolshevism was a religion every bit as fanatical as Islam during its ascendancy.

    In any case, I hope it is clear that my argument is premised upon an acknowledgement of divisions among secularists themselves. The secular left hates Christianity as much as the Bolsheviks ever did; I submit that secularists outside of the hard left, however, don’t hate us nearly as much as Muslims do.

    “You think that Christians will win out over liberals because we have more children. I used to think that; I desperately wanted it to be true, but it isn’t.”

    Well, it COULD be true. What I mean is, it is a real possibility. Right now it looks grim because Christians are barely producing more than the secularists. But look at Utah’s birth rates. They tell a story. If Catholics can get their act together and establish a similar culture in their own clearly defined territories, we will see our birth rates rise again. But the Church needs to get motivated about such projects, and so do we.

    “The liberals still win, because they brainwash our children through school and television into joining them.”

    Paper tigers, one and all. The liberals are weak – their strength is an illusion brought on almost entirely by our OWN weakness. Like all bullies, the really hateful liberals who want to drive Christianity out of public life are cowards. They are weak men, weak in body, mind and spirit. They believe themselves strong because Christians have not risen up in sufficient numbers to challenge them. That is why I was enthralled by the “Battle Cry” movement – a movement of young Christians with banners and everything – when it marched on San Fran-sicko. The perverts and degenerates there were wetting themselves in terror at the sight of so many young, healthy, motivated Christians.

    Of course, they were Protestants. And in moments like that, I envy the Protestants – because a lot of Catholics seem to be waiting for their priests and bishops who have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in preserving Christian culture to organize similar events instead of doing them themselves.

    Thank you for allowing me to have my say, and thank you for raising such a crucial topic.

  • c matt says:

    orthodox Jews do believe in the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and the inerrancy of the Law and the Prophets and believe in the Messiah, although they make the mistake of denying that Jesus is Him.

    I don’t know, so I am asking – do they believe the Messiah to be co-substantial with God – that is, is the Messiah of Judaism God become man, or is he simply a man who is God’s annointed? If the latter, I don’t see much difference between Jews and Muslims vis a vis their belief that there is one God. That is, if Jews are monotheists under those circumstances, why aren’t Muslims? Muslims are mistaken about many of God’s attributes, but that there is one God, they do not seem to be mistaken.

    Muslims do profess to believe in one God. By definition that makes them monotheistic. They may be very mistaken in the nature of God – His triune nature – but is that (admittedly significant) mistake sufficient to render them non monotheists (but Jews, who share the same mistake are monotheists)? I don’t see how.

  • c matt says:

    The liberals are weak

    Many of the positions taken by liberals are weak in logic and reason. It takes a lot, however, to overcome the 20 years of brainwashing and conditioning, and not veryione is up to the challenge.

    Not to mention that they are in positions of power in academia, media and government which makes it even harder to overcome the conditioning practically even when you have overcome it mentally.

  • therese says:

    “Muslims aren’t our fellow anything.”

    Wow. That’s scary reading on a “catholic” site. If you meant that statement literally, you better buy yourself a CCC and consult paragraph #841:

    “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

    Since you’ve chosen to call your blog “American Catholic”, I guess I can assume that you see yourself as an American first & a Catholic second. This may account for the fact that you don’t seem to hesitate to put your opinion before the teaching of the Church.

    I have worked with many Muslims over the years. To say that they’re all the same is just as ignorant as saying that Pelosi = Benedict XVI. Some of them are vocal re: their dislike of Christians. Some of them were just as horrified & vocal re: 9/11 as the rest of us & definitely do not believe that violence solves anything. Ever.

    The point here is that, as believing Catholics we are never allowed to castigate an entire group of people by saying that they’re not our “fellow anything.” At the end of day, that puts you in the same category as those you are so roundly condemning.

  • Joe Hargrave says:

    Hey Therese,

    Way to decontextualize. What I said was this:

    “Muslims aren’t our fellow anything. It’s not that I reject them; they reject us. They don’t care if you’re a monotheist in the end. It might mean they hate you a little less than they hate homosexual atheists. But once they’ve finished with them, don’t imagine you aren’t next.”

    Meaning, it isn’t how I would have it personally; it is how they want it. If there are “Muslims” who don’t want it, then I think I can agree with the imams on one thing – they probably aren’t faithful to the teachings of Islam, and are about as authentically Muslim as self-ordained priestesses are Catholic.

    Maybe you could try sending a CCC to Riyadh and give them the news about this.

    ” I guess I can assume that you see yourself as an American first & a Catholic second”

    You can assume whatever you like. I think “Catholic-American” would sound a little too whiny and appeal to the wrong sort of people. If you must know, however, I didn’t come up with the name of the blog.

    “This may account for the fact that you don’t seem to hesitate to put your opinion before the teaching of the Church.”

    When did I do that? I don’t necessarily disagree that Muslims could be a “part of the plan of salvation”, though I’m not exactly sure how… But I’m not challenging that.

    I know it’s hard for you to make logical distinctions in the midst of a fit of righteous indignation, but give it a try.

    “To say that they’re all the same is just as ignorant as saying that Pelosi = Benedict XVI.”

    Well, I didn’t say, anywhere, that “they’re all the same.” That’s what you read into it, because you’re hysterical.

    “as believing Catholics we are never allowed to castigate an entire group of people by saying that they’re not our “fellow anything.””

    Like I said, they’ve said it, not me.

    From “The General Prescripts of Belief in the Qur’an and Sunnah”:

    “109. Non-Arab Nisara, Jews, Magians and others are to be fought until they believe (in the message of Islam) or pay Jizyah(6) in acknowledgement of their submission to the authority of the Muslims(7).”

    “112. Muslims are enjoined to fight the enemies of Islam in order to keep the word of Allah uppermost on earth(9).”

    Of course it also says…

    “116. It is recommended to treat peaceful unbelievers with kindness consideration and beneficence(12).”

    When drawing cartoons is considered an act of war, I’m not sure how the modern Muslim defines either “peaceful” or “beneficence”, and I’m less inclined to care with every rape, murder and bombing.

    http://www.qss.org/archives/aqeedah/ch13.html

  • therese says:

    Joe,
    With all due respect, which one of us is ‘hysterical?’

    “Like I said, they said it, not me.”
    This line of reasoning sounds for all the world like a kid on the playground telling the teacher “well, HE started it.” For the person who receives & lives in Christ everyday, that is not a justification for retaliation. You say that I decontextualized & then you reprint the entirety of the paragraph in which you go on to say, “its not that I reject them, its that they reject us”, which only further delineates my point.

    Its not speaking in a “fit of righteous indignation” to point out that you are unfairly
    #1 characterizing a entire group of people who have many many different sects and beliefs. And
    #2 ignoring the Catechism 841 which says that Muslims with us adore the one God. That makes “them” my brothers.

    I am NOT denying that they have & continue to do a great deal of evil in this world. I’d ask you to please remember that Hitler & his henchmen were all baptized Catholic.

    “They started it” will not be an adequate defense when we stand before God because Jesus could’ve just as easily said that about us but He chose the Cross for our sakes instead. If we’re following him, we can do no less.

  • Paul Zummo says:

    I am NOT denying that they have & continue to do a great deal of evil in this world. I’d ask you to please remember that Hitler & his henchmen were all baptized Catholic.

    First of all, aside from the historical dubiousness of this claim, this is a moronic comparison. Hitler and his henchmen were not acting “in the name of Catholicism.” Hitler was a secularist who detested the Catholic Church and all she stands for. I don’t recall Hitler citing the Gospels or the Magisterium when justifying sending Jews to death camps.

    Islamists, on the other hand, are very much acting in the name of their religion, and unfortunately the idea that they are only bastardizing it is inaccurate. Violent actions against non-Muslims, complete subjigation of non-Muslims in Islamic nation-states, imposition of harsh legal codes that treat women as clear second-class citizens: these aren’t elements of a bastardized Islam, but are core tenets of Islam based on a certain interpretation of the Q’ran. Yes, there are many imams who don’t think that their holy book calls for such drastic and hateful measures, but they are a minority within Islam.

    You can bury your head in the sand and sanctimoniously lecture us all about how we should be singing kumbayah arm in arm with our Muslim brothers, but that won’t change reality.

  • American Knight says:

    Nazis! Seriously. How did that get injected in here levied against us? National Socialists in Germany were aligned with the Ottoman Turks and the Grand Mufti Husseini of Jerusalem organized a Turkish SS corps for Hitler. Nazis and Muslims and for that matter modern-Nazis AKA progressives have much more in common with each other than with us. This is nuts. I don’t get how someone can get so twisted up in hippie rhetoric. Hippies aren’t Catholics.

    Next you’ll be telling me that His Holiness Pope Pius XII was a Jew-hating Nazi. This is crazy. Not merely from a faith perspective, but based on the known facts.

    Nazis and Muslim jihadis also happen to both be pederasts and Sodomites. Are you going to tell me because our clergy has been infiltrated by homosexualists (a fractionally small percentage) that the Sodomites are like the Church too? Gimme a break! This is crazy talk.

    Queer Nazis hated Jews because most of the soft, sissy queers in Weimar were Jewish, especially Dr. Magnus Hirshfeld, the original Kinsey sci-fag. He had all the dirt on Ernst Rohm and his SA army of homos.

    Nazis hated Jews most because Jews represent the Old Covenant that the Gospel was built on and Jesus was a Jew. It was not practical to attack Christianity outright because most Germans where Catholic or Lutheran, so Hitler, ever the conniving strategist, attacked the Law and the Prophets to undermine the Law of Christ and usher in an era of Aryan Paganism styled after Sparta and instead of worshiping Zeus they worshiped Wotan.

    Many liberal-minded, well-intentioned morons thought the Nazis were OK back then too.

  • Joe Hargrave says:

    Therese,

    So… are you suggesting that we force Muslims not to be Muslims? I mean, there’s nothing we can “do” about their beliefs. They don’t convert. Individuals sometimes convert, yes, but the penalty for conversion in Islamic law is death – want to guess what the penalty for proselytizing is? Yeah, it’s death.

    It’s not about what they started. It’s about what they are.

    I’m not trying to justify any sort of ill-treatment of them. I’m simply acknowledging a) what their religion says, and b) that the vast majority seem content it. They appear to fully expect us to resist them (that simply means “not apostatize our Christian faith”, not “hose them down with bullets as they cross the border) and seem quite up for the challenge. Let’s put up a fight instead of bending over.

    I mean, if you end up converting to Islam because you wanted to be sensitive and multicultural, how do you think Jesus is going to like that?

    ” I’d ask you to please remember that Hitler & his henchmen were all baptized Catholic.”

    You… don’t really know history, do you?

    I mean, for someone who does appear quite hysterical about someone else’s perceived generalization of an entire group, you’re quite casual with the word “all” when it comes to making connections between Nazism and Catholicism. In fact…

    Hitler’s “henchmen” were quite diverse – there were Catholics, sure, but also Lutherans, secularists, pagan devotees of Odin and Thor (i.e. the ENTIRE S.S., which carried out the Holocaust), oh, and MUSLIMS – later recruited INTO the S.S. to make up for manpower shortages at the end of the war in Southeastern Europe. The Grand Mufti of Jeruslaem – the Muslim head honcho over there – was an ally of Hitler.

    The mission of the S.S. was to bring about a “post-Christian” order. Their official position on Christ? Illegitimate son of a Jewish whore. So you might say that while plenty of Nazis were what we might today call “cultural Catholics”, few if any were simply Catholics.

  • Texasmom says:

    Mistake No. 1: Allowing large diaspora of Muslims into the USA.
    Mistake No. 2. Electing a stealth Muslim as President
    Mistake No. 3. Allowing our culture to drift into ignorance (schools), sloth (government entitlements) and obesity. An ignorant, lazy and fat culture was easy to manipulate!

  • Texasmom says:

    Islam is a total CONTROL system with a beard of religion. They won’t rest until everybody is converted, or destroyed, or completely controled, like zombies! This system is very similar to a retrovirus. A virus enters a cell and takes over. They contribute nothing to society but by taking it over, gain from all civilational advances made by free people!

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