Comments on: James Carroll Takes a Swing at the Church http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/12/01/james-carroll-takes-a-swing-at-the-church/ Politics and Culture from a Catholic perspective. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:37:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mike Petrik http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/12/01/james-carroll-takes-a-swing-at-the-church/#comment-16532 Mike Petrik Thu, 03 Dec 2009 23:40:23 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=15387#comment-16532 Joe, I don't think Gabriel was necessarily trying to say that torture is ok b/c Innocent IV authorized it. I at least inferred his point to be responsive to Rod's, but perhaps I'm wrong. Joe,
I don’t think Gabriel was necessarily trying to say that torture is ok b/c Innocent IV authorized it. I at least inferred his point to be responsive to Rod’s, but perhaps I’m wrong.

]]> By: Phillip http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/12/01/james-carroll-takes-a-swing-at-the-church/#comment-16531 Phillip Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:38:07 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=15387#comment-16531 Now you've done it and brought up Fr. Harrison. Now you’ve done it and brought up Fr. Harrison.

]]> By: Donald R. McClarey http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/12/01/james-carroll-takes-a-swing-at-the-church/#comment-16530 Donald R. McClarey Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:35:43 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=15387#comment-16530 The Church has always condemned abortion. The Church has regarded as morally licit just wars. Until the papacy of John Paul II the Church had no problem with the death penalty which was frequently utilized in the papal states until 1871 when the papal states were dissolved by the newly unified Italy. As to torture, Church teaching has been in a state of flux as some popes have condemned it, and some have allowed its use by legitimate authorities. Torture, like the death penalty, was utilized by some popes as rulers of the papal states in judicial proceedings, as was common in most European states in those times. Other popes condemned the use of torture. Father Brian Harrison gives a good overview of torture and the teaching of the Church at the links below: http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt118.html http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt119.html The Church has always condemned abortion. The Church has regarded as morally licit just wars. Until the papacy of John Paul II the Church had no problem with the death penalty which was frequently utilized in the papal states until 1871 when the papal states were dissolved by the newly unified Italy.

As to torture, Church teaching has been in a state of flux as some popes have condemned it, and some have allowed its use by legitimate authorities. Torture, like the death penalty, was utilized by some popes as rulers of the papal states in judicial proceedings, as was common in most European states in those times. Other popes condemned the use of torture.

Father Brian Harrison gives a good overview of torture and the teaching of the Church at the links below:

http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt118.html

http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt119.html

]]> By: Phillip http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/12/01/james-carroll-takes-a-swing-at-the-church/#comment-16529 Phillip Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:09:21 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=15387#comment-16529 Actually abortion is a form of murder - the taking of innocent life. Torture is the infliction of pain for some other end than death. This may be semantics but it does distinguish the moral objects of each that are important in moral philosophy/theology. Which is why some can argue that the licitness of the infliction of pain in the defense of society can justify certain forms of torture or, alternatively, make it not torture, but some other form of pain. Actually abortion is a form of murder – the taking of innocent life. Torture is the infliction of pain for some other end than death. This may be semantics but it does distinguish the moral objects of each that are important in moral philosophy/theology.
Which is why some can argue that the licitness of the infliction of pain in the defense of society can justify certain forms of torture or, alternatively, make it not torture, but some other form of pain.

]]> By: Dale Price http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/12/01/james-carroll-takes-a-swing-at-the-church/#comment-16528 Dale Price Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:13:36 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=15387#comment-16528 Thought experiment for pro-abort and torture apologist Catholics alike, using the following true sentence: Abortion is a form of torture which results in death. Thought experiment for pro-abort and torture apologist Catholics alike, using the following true sentence:

Abortion is a form of torture which results in death.

]]> By: Joe Hargrave http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/12/01/james-carroll-takes-a-swing-at-the-church/#comment-16527 Joe Hargrave Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:31:14 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=15387#comment-16527 And is totally rejected by the modern Catechism, Gabriel. And is totally rejected by the modern Catechism, Gabriel.

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