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	<title>Comments on: Eschaton Si, Immanent No!</title>
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	<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/30/eschaton-si-immanent-no/</link>
	<description>Politics and Culture from a Catholic perspective.</description>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/30/eschaton-si-immanent-no/#comment-23016</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You can claim all you want that liberation theology is only present in &quot;two&quot; paragraphs, but it is clearly one of the gigantic boogey men haunting nearly the entirety of your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can claim all you want that liberation theology is only present in &#8220;two&#8221; paragraphs, but it is clearly one of the gigantic boogey men haunting nearly the entirety of your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/30/eschaton-si-immanent-no/#comment-23015</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=12120#comment-23015</guid>
		<description>Yes I have a copy but it&#039;s in a book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I have a copy but it&#8217;s in a book.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Blosser</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/30/eschaton-si-immanent-no/#comment-23014</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Blosser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=12120#comment-23014</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What I take issue with is the way you and Ratzinger continually point to “liberation theology” as the preeminent example of the “bloody” dangers of “immanentizing the eschaton.”&lt;/i&gt;

Like I said, out of a 4140 word post on a lot of other topics besides &#039;liberation theology&#039;, you focus on two single paragraphs. As with Ratzinger and Voegelin, I&#039;d just as likely point to National Socialism and Communism as examples of &#039;immanentizing the eschaton.&quot;

And actually, the two paragraphs I cited were not so much a criticism of liberation theology &lt;i&gt;per se&lt;/i&gt; as &lt;i&gt;Marxist hermeneutics&lt;/i&gt;, which I specifically noted -- and Ratzinger&#039;s observation of how, within such, fundamental Christian theological concepts like &quot;Hope&quot;, &quot;People of God,&quot; &quot;The Kingdom of God&quot;, etc. are perverted.

&lt;i&gt;JPII said liberation theology was “useful and necessary.”&lt;/i&gt;

John Paul II&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/1986/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_19860409_conf-episcopale-brasile_it.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;letter to the Brazilian Bishops&lt;/a&gt;, 1986. I know. He charactized it as one being &quot;in complete fidelity to the Church.&quot;

Do you have an actual copy of the full text in English? (Italian translation via Google is a bit choppy).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>What I take issue with is the way you and Ratzinger continually point to “liberation theology” as the preeminent example of the “bloody” dangers of “immanentizing the eschaton.”</i></p>
<p>Like I said, out of a 4140 word post on a lot of other topics besides &#8216;liberation theology&#8217;, you focus on two single paragraphs. As with Ratzinger and Voegelin, I&#8217;d just as likely point to National Socialism and Communism as examples of &#8216;immanentizing the eschaton.&#8221;</p>
<p>And actually, the two paragraphs I cited were not so much a criticism of liberation theology <i>per se</i> as <i>Marxist hermeneutics</i>, which I specifically noted &#8212; and Ratzinger&#8217;s observation of how, within such, fundamental Christian theological concepts like &#8220;Hope&#8221;, &#8220;People of God,&#8221; &#8220;The Kingdom of God&#8221;, etc. are perverted.</p>
<p><i>JPII said liberation theology was “useful and necessary.”</i></p>
<p>John Paul II&#8217;s <a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/1986/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_19860409_conf-episcopale-brasile_it.html" rel="nofollow">letter to the Brazilian Bishops</a>, 1986. I know. He charactized it as one being &#8220;in complete fidelity to the Church.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you have an actual copy of the full text in English? (Italian translation via Google is a bit choppy).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/30/eschaton-si-immanent-no/#comment-23013</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=12120#comment-23013</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;I’m sure that sounds wonderfully edgy, but if you’re going to go around saying that you’re going to have to accept that you’re intentionally associating Christ with people who are almost invariably violent in their ideologies... Especially in a political context, revolutionary strongly implies violent. &lt;/I&gt;

Baloney. There are countless nonviolent revolutions and revolutionaries throughout history.

&lt;I&gt;When you’re talking Marxist revolutionaries in Latin America, there can be no doubt one is talking about violent people. &lt;/I&gt;

Many of them were violent, but many of them were not. You are making blanket statements that are inaccurate and unhelpful.

&lt;I&gt;One can’t have the Che chic without celebrating a man who like to dialogue with opponents by putting a revolver bullet in the back of their heads.&lt;/I&gt;

It&#039;s astonishing that you can make such a critique considering your own politics which has no trouble justifying violence, so long as it&#039;s the &quot;right kind&quot; of violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m sure that sounds wonderfully edgy, but if you’re going to go around saying that you’re going to have to accept that you’re intentionally associating Christ with people who are almost invariably violent in their ideologies&#8230; Especially in a political context, revolutionary strongly implies violent. </i></p>
<p>Baloney. There are countless nonviolent revolutions and revolutionaries throughout history.</p>
<p><i>When you’re talking Marxist revolutionaries in Latin America, there can be no doubt one is talking about violent people. </i></p>
<p>Many of them were violent, but many of them were not. You are making blanket statements that are inaccurate and unhelpful.</p>
<p><i>One can’t have the Che chic without celebrating a man who like to dialogue with opponents by putting a revolver bullet in the back of their heads.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s astonishing that you can make such a critique considering your own politics which has no trouble justifying violence, so long as it&#8217;s the &#8220;right kind&#8221; of violence.</p>
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		<title>By: DarwinCatholic</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/30/eschaton-si-immanent-no/#comment-23012</link>
		<dc:creator>DarwinCatholic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=12120#comment-23012</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Well of course. Christ was a revolutionary.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m sure that sounds wonderfully edgy, but if you&#039;re going to go around saying that you&#039;re going to have to accept that you&#039;re intentionally associating Christ with people who are almost invariably violent in their ideologies.  One can&#039;t have the Che chic without celebrating a man who like to dialogue with opponents by putting a revolver bullet in the back of their heads.

Especially in a political context, revolutionary strongly implies violent.  When you&#039;re talking Marxist revolutionaries in Latin America, there can be no doubt one is talking about violent people.  (Not to say they were the only violent people in play, but they were unquestionably violent.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Well of course. Christ was a revolutionary.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that sounds wonderfully edgy, but if you&#8217;re going to go around saying that you&#8217;re going to have to accept that you&#8217;re intentionally associating Christ with people who are almost invariably violent in their ideologies.  One can&#8217;t have the Che chic without celebrating a man who like to dialogue with opponents by putting a revolver bullet in the back of their heads.</p>
<p>Especially in a political context, revolutionary strongly implies violent.  When you&#8217;re talking Marxist revolutionaries in Latin America, there can be no doubt one is talking about violent people.  (Not to say they were the only violent people in play, but they were unquestionably violent.)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/08/30/eschaton-si-immanent-no/#comment-23011</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=12120#comment-23011</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Rather, my intent was to identify what I think were the perfectly valid and shared concerns, of Voegelin, Ratzinger (and perhaps even Buckley): that time and again, humanity’s desire to “immanentize the eschaton”, to bring the world to its perfection through political means, has resulted in a complete (and oftentimes bloody) disaster.&lt;/I&gt;

I appreciate this clarification. I never thought that you thought that I hold such positions.

What I take issue with is the way you and Ratzinger continually point to &quot;liberation theology&quot; as the preeminent example of the &quot;bloody&quot; dangers of &quot;immanentizing the eschaton.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Rather, my intent was to identify what I think were the perfectly valid and shared concerns, of Voegelin, Ratzinger (and perhaps even Buckley): that time and again, humanity’s desire to “immanentize the eschaton”, to bring the world to its perfection through political means, has resulted in a complete (and oftentimes bloody) disaster.</i></p>
<p>I appreciate this clarification. I never thought that you thought that I hold such positions.</p>
<p>What I take issue with is the way you and Ratzinger continually point to &#8220;liberation theology&#8221; as the preeminent example of the &#8220;bloody&#8221; dangers of &#8220;immanentizing the eschaton.&#8221;</p>
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