Comments on: My Problem With Lila Rose http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/01/my-problem-with-lila-rose/ Politics and Culture from a Catholic perspective. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:21:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joe Hargrave http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/01/my-problem-with-lila-rose/#comment-15691 Joe Hargrave Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:09:04 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=10304#comment-15691 I want to make clear, once again, that I think Rose was doing two different things. There was legitimate undercover work - I was hazy on its legitimacy but now I'm willing to say its fine. This latest thing Don posted looks like that. It's catching people in a criminal act. I'M OK WITH THAT. Just to be clear. But there was SOMETHING ELSE that Rose was doing that was not legitimate undercover work. Posing as racists and offering money to PP on the condition that it be used only for the abortion of minority children - that, in my view, was dishonorable. Why was it dishonorable? For a number of reasons which I outlined in the old discussion you can read above. It wasn't exposing a crime, it was attempting to get people to look bad by making some very dubious assumptions and claims. Yes, its war, and we want to win. I want victory with honor. Undercover work is fine. Moral entrapment isn't. I want to make clear, once again, that I think Rose was doing two different things.

There was legitimate undercover work – I was hazy on its legitimacy but now I’m willing to say its fine. This latest thing Don posted looks like that. It’s catching people in a criminal act. I’M OK WITH THAT. Just to be clear.

But there was SOMETHING ELSE that Rose was doing that was not legitimate undercover work. Posing as racists and offering money to PP on the condition that it be used only for the abortion of minority children – that, in my view, was dishonorable.

Why was it dishonorable? For a number of reasons which I outlined in the old discussion you can read above. It wasn’t exposing a crime, it was attempting to get people to look bad by making some very dubious assumptions and claims.

Yes, its war, and we want to win. I want victory with honor. Undercover work is fine. Moral entrapment isn’t.

]]> By: Tito Edwards http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/01/my-problem-with-lila-rose/#comment-15690 Tito Edwards Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:14:44 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=10304#comment-15690 RR, Hey, how a bout an icon to go along with your name? Would make TAC look purtier. RR,

Hey, how a bout an icon to go along with your name?

Would make TAC look purtier.

]]> By: restrainedradical http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/01/my-problem-with-lila-rose/#comment-15689 restrainedradical Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:43:58 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=10304#comment-15689 In response to Tim Shipe here: http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/02/24/lila-rose-and-worse-than-murder-inc/#comments The way I see it, acting is not a sin, not because it reveals truths (that would be consequentialist), but because it isn't intended to deceive the viewer. Same goes for storytelling. In response to Tim Shipe here: http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/02/24/lila-rose-and-worse-than-murder-inc/#comments

The way I see it, acting is not a sin, not because it reveals truths (that would be consequentialist), but because it isn’t intended to deceive the viewer. Same goes for storytelling.

]]> By: Ryan http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/01/my-problem-with-lila-rose/#comment-15688 Ryan Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:57:18 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=10304#comment-15688 How about CCC 2489: "Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it." Could it be argued that the PP abortionist do not have the right to the information? Would this be in line with the priests who forged baptism certificates for Jews during the Holocaust? Perhaps Just War theory might play into this as well. Anyway, I know we're well past this conversation but I enjoyed reading through your thoughts and the conversation that followed. How about CCC 2489:

“Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it.”

Could it be argued that the PP abortionist do not have the right to the information? Would this be in line with the priests who forged baptism certificates for Jews during the Holocaust?

Perhaps Just War theory might play into this as well.

Anyway, I know we’re well past this conversation but I enjoyed reading through your thoughts and the conversation that followed.

]]> By: GodsGadfly http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/01/my-problem-with-lila-rose/#comment-15687 GodsGadfly Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:02:19 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=10304#comment-15687 Gabriel, Scrupulosity is the fear of having sin when one has none. It very often goes with the saint's quest for spiritual perfection. Scrupulosity does not mean questioning whether something is the *best* action or not. Again, the difference between ordinary virtue and heroic virtue. Whether or not there's anything *wrong* with what Lila Rose does, it certainly isn't the most saintly approach to the matter. Oh, my wife reminded me what it is. In South Carolina, and probably other states, Medicaid will pay for abortions in the case of rape or incest, but they must be reported. So all one really has to do is call Planned Parenthood and say, "I'm on Medicaid [in our case, that would not be a falsehood at all]. Will Medicaid cover my abortion?" And see what they say. Or, an activist with the appropriate resources (e.g., a lawyer) could demand PP's Medicaid billing records--not necessarily the explicit recrds; just whether or not they get any money from Medicaid to pay for abortions (don't have to know which abortions; just whether that's true_. If they get money from Medicaid, then they have to be reporting the rape or incest, and you get the records of how often they've reported it. Gabriel,
Scrupulosity is the fear of having sin when one has none. It very often goes with the saint’s quest for spiritual perfection.
Scrupulosity does not mean questioning whether something is the *best* action or not. Again, the difference between ordinary virtue and heroic virtue. Whether or not there’s anything *wrong* with what Lila Rose does, it certainly isn’t the most saintly approach to the matter.
Oh, my wife reminded me what it is. In South Carolina, and probably other states, Medicaid will pay for abortions in the case of rape or incest, but they must be reported.
So all one really has to do is call Planned Parenthood and say, “I’m on Medicaid [in our case, that would not be a falsehood at all]. Will Medicaid cover my abortion?” And see what they say.
Or, an activist with the appropriate resources (e.g., a lawyer) could demand PP’s Medicaid billing records–not necessarily the explicit recrds; just whether or not they get any money from Medicaid to pay for abortions (don’t have to know which abortions; just whether that’s true_. If they get money from Medicaid, then they have to be reporting the rape or incest, and you get the records of how often they’ve reported it.

]]> By: Gabriel Austin http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/07/01/my-problem-with-lila-rose/#comment-15686 Gabriel Austin Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:51:40 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=10304#comment-15686 I believe Mr. Hargrove is suffering from a failing called "scrupulosity". It is not a sin; but it is a failing. I believe Mr. Hargrove is suffering from a failing called “scrupulosity”. It is not a sin; but it is a failing.

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