Comments on: What Is Conservatism http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/21/what-is-conservatism/ Politics and Culture from a Catholic perspective. Thu, 24 May 2012 00:26:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Postmodern Conservative — A First Things Blog http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/21/what-is-conservatism/#comment-12045 Postmodern Conservative — A First Things Blog Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:21:09 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=9987#comment-12045 [...] into current political discussions. That said, let’s give it a shot. Thinking through the definitions of conservatism, it seemed to me plausible that a conservative could perhaps make a claim to Cicero. This would [...] [...] into current political discussions. That said, let’s give it a shot. Thinking through the definitions of conservatism, it seemed to me plausible that a conservative could perhaps make a claim to Cicero. This would [...]

]]> By: Cicero and Conservatism « Vox Nova http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/21/what-is-conservatism/#comment-12044 Cicero and Conservatism « Vox Nova Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:58:04 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=9987#comment-12044 [...] into current political discussions. That said, let’s give it a shot. Thinking through the definitions of conservatism, it seemed to me plausible that a conservative could perhaps make a claim to Cicero. This would [...] [...] into current political discussions. That said, let’s give it a shot. Thinking through the definitions of conservatism, it seemed to me plausible that a conservative could perhaps make a claim to Cicero. This would [...]

]]> By: Donald R. McClarey http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/21/what-is-conservatism/#comment-12043 Donald R. McClarey Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:50:10 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=9987#comment-12043 The French Revolution and the American Revolution share little in common except for the term Revolution. It is instructive to read the varying reactions of the Founding Fathers to the French Revolution, from the puerile enthusiasm for it by Mr. Jefferson, to the adamant repugnance towards it shown by Mr. Adams. A good book is waiting to be written on the subject. Conor Cruise O'Brien wrote a first rate book on Jefferson's infatuation with the French Revolution, but little has been done as to the other Founding Fathers, except for Adams. The French Revolution and the American Revolution share little in common except for the term Revolution. It is instructive to read the varying reactions of the Founding Fathers to the French Revolution, from the puerile enthusiasm for it by Mr. Jefferson, to the adamant repugnance towards it shown by Mr. Adams. A good book is waiting to be written on the subject. Conor Cruise O’Brien wrote a first rate book on Jefferson’s infatuation with the French Revolution, but little has been done as to the other Founding Fathers, except for Adams.

]]> By: Art Deco http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/21/what-is-conservatism/#comment-12042 Art Deco Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:31:13 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=9987#comment-12042 While I think discussions of political terminology are sterile, I think one might repair to Thomas Sowell's dialectic between the 'vision of the anointed' and the extant practices of 'the benighted', who are distinguished by the respect they accord the contrivances of the chatterati over and above the intelligence encoded in institutions as they have evolved over time. The folk in our own time who wish to replace the magisterium of the Church with the pronouncements of he board of the American Psychological Association and replace family relations with user-defined entities whose continuance is dependent upon consumer taste have their analogue in the folk who contrived the Cult of the Supreme Being and the French Revolutionary calendar. Since Mr. McClarey has brought up the American Revolution, one ought to note some contrasts between that and the French Revolution. The political order delineated in the Constitution of 1789 here was an elaboration upon the extant colonial forms; in France, each of the constitutions adopted between 1790 and 1813 took no cognizance of the political forms existing prior to 1789. The abolition here of legally-delineated orders of clergy, nobility, and burgesses can be seen as a consequence of the limited presence of the British nobility in the colonies to begin with as well as the confessional variegation between the colonies and sometimes within them; there it incorporated a violent rebellion upending existing social arrangements. Here the disestablishment of one or another protestant sect over the course of the last quarter of the 18th century a consequence of the demographic loss of position by the pre-eminent confession (in the South) and the loss of institutional verve (in New England); there it incorporated first a legislated attempt to render the Church a department of the French government and later an attempt to replace the Catholic faith with a deistic cult. While I think discussions of political terminology are sterile, I think one might repair to Thomas Sowell’s dialectic between the ‘vision of the anointed’ and the extant practices of ‘the benighted’, who are distinguished by the respect they accord the contrivances of the chatterati over and above the intelligence encoded in institutions as they have evolved over time. The folk in our own time who wish to replace the magisterium of the Church with the pronouncements of he board of the American Psychological Association and replace family relations with user-defined entities whose continuance is dependent upon consumer taste have their analogue in the folk who contrived the Cult of the Supreme Being and the French Revolutionary calendar.

Since Mr. McClarey has brought up the American Revolution, one ought to note some contrasts between that and the French Revolution. The political order delineated in the Constitution of 1789 here was an elaboration upon the extant colonial forms; in France, each of the constitutions adopted between 1790 and 1813 took no cognizance of the political forms existing prior to 1789. The abolition here of legally-delineated orders of clergy, nobility, and burgesses can be seen as a consequence of the limited presence of the British nobility in the colonies to begin with as well as the confessional variegation between the colonies and sometimes within them; there it incorporated a violent rebellion upending existing social arrangements. Here the disestablishment of one or another protestant sect over the course of the last quarter of the 18th century a consequence of the demographic loss of position by the pre-eminent confession (in the South) and the loss of institutional verve (in New England); there it incorporated first a legislated attempt to render the Church a department of the French government and later an attempt to replace the Catholic faith with a deistic cult.

]]> By: DarwinCatholic http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/21/what-is-conservatism/#comment-12041 DarwinCatholic Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:25:21 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=9987#comment-12041 <i>Hereditary subjection was, by 1789, characteristic of Eastern Europe, not Western Europe. There were some residual feudal dues in France; serfdom was gone in England and in uplands generally.</i> I'm probably heavily handicapped here in that 18th and 19th century political history is very late for me (classicist and medievalist by training) which means that I mostly know what I've exerted myself to study: Britain, Ireland and Russia, but only general outlines in between for that period. That said, I was leaning more heavily on "<b>effectively</b> bound to the land" in that the degree of industrialization in much of Europe in 1750 to 1850 was not necessarily enough to allow most peasantry (in the broad sense, not legally surfs in the West) many options when coming in to the cities -- and the options when they did so were often rather poor. Given that as late as the cold snap following the eruption of Krakatoa in the 1880s there were serious regional food shortages in parts of Europe as a result of poor crops due to bad weather, I think its accurate to see the inequalities between hereditary nobility (and "gentle" classes in the wider sense) and those on the land as being much wider than today's inequalities, in that it was a gap between near subsistence agriculture and a level of plenty which would look fairly upper class even today. That said, I may well be letting my impressions run away with me here and am subject to correction. Hereditary subjection was, by 1789, characteristic of Eastern Europe, not Western Europe. There were some residual feudal dues in France; serfdom was gone in England and in uplands generally.

I’m probably heavily handicapped here in that 18th and 19th century political history is very late for me (classicist and medievalist by training) which means that I mostly know what I’ve exerted myself to study: Britain, Ireland and Russia, but only general outlines in between for that period.

That said, I was leaning more heavily on “effectively bound to the land” in that the degree of industrialization in much of Europe in 1750 to 1850 was not necessarily enough to allow most peasantry (in the broad sense, not legally surfs in the West) many options when coming in to the cities — and the options when they did so were often rather poor.

Given that as late as the cold snap following the eruption of Krakatoa in the 1880s there were serious regional food shortages in parts of Europe as a result of poor crops due to bad weather, I think its accurate to see the inequalities between hereditary nobility (and “gentle” classes in the wider sense) and those on the land as being much wider than today’s inequalities, in that it was a gap between near subsistence agriculture and a level of plenty which would look fairly upper class even today.

That said, I may well be letting my impressions run away with me here and am subject to correction.

]]> By: DarwinCatholic http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/21/what-is-conservatism/#comment-12040 DarwinCatholic Mon, 22 Jun 2009 23:11:32 +0000 http://the-american-catholic.com/?p=9987#comment-12040 <I>If what is true in my social circle is true generally, sport hunting is characteristic of small towns and rural areas and, while found in all social strata, is most likely practiced by wage-earners, not the bourgeoisie. Shooting clay pigeons is more upscale, but, again, has a diverse clientele.</i> Well, given that (due to personal and regional background) I can't help seeing "middle class" as starting at or below 30k/yr in most parts of the country -- we're not necessarily picturing different things here. :-) It's one of the peculiarities of America that we all like to think of ourselves as middle class. If what is true in my social circle is true generally, sport hunting is characteristic of small towns and rural areas and, while found in all social strata, is most likely practiced by wage-earners, not the bourgeoisie. Shooting clay pigeons is more upscale, but, again, has a diverse clientele.

Well, given that (due to personal and regional background) I can’t help seeing “middle class” as starting at or below 30k/yr in most parts of the country — we’re not necessarily picturing different things here. :-)

It’s one of the peculiarities of America that we all like to think of ourselves as middle class.

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