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	<title>Comments on: Political Intimidation and Persecution</title>
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	<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/27/political-intimidation-and-persecution/</link>
	<description>Politics and Culture from a Catholic perspective.</description>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/27/political-intimidation-and-persecution/#comment-30566</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=1158#comment-30566</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;...it shares the same lineage with capitalism (Enlightenment liberalism/humanism)&lt;/I&gt;

Yes Marx&#039;s own thought does.

It&#039;s important, though, to recognize the revisions and rethinking that marxism, neo-marxism, etc. has gone through. There is no one &quot;marxism,&quot; and marxists disagree about all sorts of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;it shares the same lineage with capitalism (Enlightenment liberalism/humanism)</i></p>
<p>Yes Marx&#8217;s own thought does.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important, though, to recognize the revisions and rethinking that marxism, neo-marxism, etc. has gone through. There is no one &#8220;marxism,&#8221; and marxists disagree about all sorts of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Burgwald</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/27/political-intimidation-and-persecution/#comment-30565</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Burgwald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=1158#comment-30565</guid>
		<description>I actually agree that there&#039;s *some* validity to Marx&#039;s critique of capitalism, but we shouldn&#039;t be surprised that he&#039;s own proposal was a failure... apart from its obvious faults as described (in part) here, it shares the same lineage with capitalism (Enlightenment liberalism/humanism). (Cf., e.g., Benedict Ashley, _Choosing a Worldview and Value-System, ch. 2)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually agree that there&#8217;s *some* validity to Marx&#8217;s critique of capitalism, but we shouldn&#8217;t be surprised that he&#8217;s own proposal was a failure&#8230; apart from its obvious faults as described (in part) here, it shares the same lineage with capitalism (Enlightenment liberalism/humanism). (Cf., e.g., Benedict Ashley, _Choosing a Worldview and Value-System, ch. 2)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/27/political-intimidation-and-persecution/#comment-30564</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark DeFrancisis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=1158#comment-30564</guid>
		<description>M.I.

Correct

Marx more or less posited a natural  human telos, in which the human being is to become himself, in which his activity would beyond the  enslavement in servile labour,  hitherto historically necessary in order to subdue and tame external and internal nature, and virtually invariably exploited by the powerful or &#039;haves&#039;.

This end, however, is not just to take pleasure in a crass &#039;materialism&#039; as we commonly call it, but to actualize himself in the liberal--albeit immanent, not transcendent--employment of his creative energies in a world made (as  much as practically possible) free of scarcity and serviilty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M.I.</p>
<p>Correct</p>
<p>Marx more or less posited a natural  human telos, in which the human being is to become himself, in which his activity would beyond the  enslavement in servile labour,  hitherto historically necessary in order to subdue and tame external and internal nature, and virtually invariably exploited by the powerful or &#8216;haves&#8217;.</p>
<p>This end, however, is not just to take pleasure in a crass &#8216;materialism&#8217; as we commonly call it, but to actualize himself in the liberal&#8211;albeit immanent, not transcendent&#8211;employment of his creative energies in a world made (as  much as practically possible) free of scarcity and serviilty.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/27/political-intimidation-and-persecution/#comment-30563</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=1158#comment-30563</guid>
		<description>But marxist materialism does not mean the same thing as the word materialism as we use it in conversation. It does not mean valuing possessions as the key to human happiness. That is, in fact, to get his economics completely backwards. His materialism has to do with his denial of the transcendent, not how he views possessions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But marxist materialism does not mean the same thing as the word materialism as we use it in conversation. It does not mean valuing possessions as the key to human happiness. That is, in fact, to get his economics completely backwards. His materialism has to do with his denial of the transcendent, not how he views possessions.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald R. McClarey</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/27/political-intimidation-and-persecution/#comment-30562</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald R. McClarey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=1158#comment-30562</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you think that Marx’s philosophy includes something about material possessions being the key to human happiness, then you have seriously misread Marx. &quot;

Marx was a complete materialist Catholic Anarchist.  He believed there was simply nothing beyond the material.  As his right hand Engels put it:
&quot; The materialist conception of history starts from the proposition that the production of the means to support human life and, next to production, the exchange of things produced, is the basis of all social structure; that in every society that has appeared in history, the manner in which wealth is distributed and society divided into classes or orders is dependent upon what is produced, how it is produced, and how the products are exchanged. From this point of view, the final causes of all social changes and political revolutions are to be sought, not in men&#039;s brains, not in men&#039;s better insights into eternal truth and justice, but in changes in the modes of production and exchange.&quot;

Once the working class had the means of production in their hands to satisfy their material needs, the dictatorship of the proletariat would reign and the classless society would result.  That Marx was wrong about this, as he was wrong about most of his predictions regarding capitalism, history amply demostrates.  I enjoy reading Marx for much the same reason I enjoy reading Freud:  both men could write with style and verve, but as world views both philosophies have less to do with reality than a Bugs Bunny marathon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you think that Marx’s philosophy includes something about material possessions being the key to human happiness, then you have seriously misread Marx. &#8221;</p>
<p>Marx was a complete materialist Catholic Anarchist.  He believed there was simply nothing beyond the material.  As his right hand Engels put it:<br />
&#8221; The materialist conception of history starts from the proposition that the production of the means to support human life and, next to production, the exchange of things produced, is the basis of all social structure; that in every society that has appeared in history, the manner in which wealth is distributed and society divided into classes or orders is dependent upon what is produced, how it is produced, and how the products are exchanged. From this point of view, the final causes of all social changes and political revolutions are to be sought, not in men&#8217;s brains, not in men&#8217;s better insights into eternal truth and justice, but in changes in the modes of production and exchange.&#8221;</p>
<p>Once the working class had the means of production in their hands to satisfy their material needs, the dictatorship of the proletariat would reign and the classless society would result.  That Marx was wrong about this, as he was wrong about most of his predictions regarding capitalism, history amply demostrates.  I enjoy reading Marx for much the same reason I enjoy reading Freud:  both men could write with style and verve, but as world views both philosophies have less to do with reality than a Bugs Bunny marathon.</p>
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		<title>By: Tito Edwards</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/27/political-intimidation-and-persecution/#comment-30561</link>
		<dc:creator>Tito Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This reminds me of something a Mr. Ilyich Ulyanov delivered in a speech to advocates of the MORCPB on December 6, 1920.

I can&#039;t remember whom Mr. Ulyanov was referring to but it is apropos here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of something a Mr. Ilyich Ulyanov delivered in a speech to advocates of the MORCPB on December 6, 1920.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t remember whom Mr. Ulyanov was referring to but it is apropos here.</p>
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