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	<title>Comments on: Palin on Obama and Abortion</title>
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	<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/10/palin-on-obama-and-abortion/</link>
	<description>Politics and Culture from a Catholic perspective.</description>
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		<title>By: largebill</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/10/palin-on-obama-and-abortion/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>largebill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 03:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-91</guid>
		<description>I think (and I could be wrong) that what we are discussing when we argue whether a good Catholic could vote for Obama is really about interpersonal relations.  What I mean is how do we rationalize a dear relative or a good friend supporting and voting for a candidate that we find personally abhorrent?  For example, my aunt &amp; god-mother is a wonderful Catholic woman, she raised 12 children, she is active in her parish, volunteers at the local hospital, etc, etc.   However, she grew up in the 20&#039;s and 30&#039;s when most Catholics leaned to Democrats politically because of the sense that they &quot;cared.&quot;  Whether they cared or not didn&#039;t matter they conveyed a sense of caring which was well received.  Even past 80 years of age she still votes the party ticket.  There is no doubt in my mind that she does not support the evil that that party now defends.  When we rationalize some people voting Dem despite the evidence of their complete support of abortion on demand it is to acknowledge some don&#039;t fully make the connection between the vote and the result.

Bottom line:  I could never understand a Catholic voting for Obama or others of his ilk.  However, I can&#039;t reconcile that with my love for my aunt.  That is what makes this issue more confusing than it ought to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think (and I could be wrong) that what we are discussing when we argue whether a good Catholic could vote for Obama is really about interpersonal relations.  What I mean is how do we rationalize a dear relative or a good friend supporting and voting for a candidate that we find personally abhorrent?  For example, my aunt &amp; god-mother is a wonderful Catholic woman, she raised 12 children, she is active in her parish, volunteers at the local hospital, etc, etc.   However, she grew up in the 20&#8242;s and 30&#8242;s when most Catholics leaned to Democrats politically because of the sense that they &#8220;cared.&#8221;  Whether they cared or not didn&#8217;t matter they conveyed a sense of caring which was well received.  Even past 80 years of age she still votes the party ticket.  There is no doubt in my mind that she does not support the evil that that party now defends.  When we rationalize some people voting Dem despite the evidence of their complete support of abortion on demand it is to acknowledge some don&#8217;t fully make the connection between the vote and the result.</p>
<p>Bottom line:  I could never understand a Catholic voting for Obama or others of his ilk.  However, I can&#8217;t reconcile that with my love for my aunt.  That is what makes this issue more confusing than it ought to be.</p>
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		<title>By: fus01</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/10/palin-on-obama-and-abortion/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>fus01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Well, I couldn&#039;t vote for Obama, and I don&#039;t want to create a strawman, but I could see some combination of the following assumptions leading one to the conclusion that a Catholic could vote for Obama in good conscience:

1) McCain has never shown great affection for social-issues voters; there&#039;s little evidence it&#039;s a top priority for him personally.
2) McCain would be able to do little to impact the legality of abortion with a Democrat Senate majority voting on his SCOTUS appointments.
3) McCain and Obama both support ESCR.
4) As there is little chance of change in the current abortion regime, and even the FOCA would only have marginal effects (arguendo), the other issues become more salient.
5) Obama&#039;s proposals to expand health care coverage, his initial opposition to Iraq, his willingness to expand programs that care for the poor etc. are more in line with many parts of Catholic Social Teaching than Obama&#039;s.
6) Obama shows the type of temperament and intelligence that we should look for in a President.
7) As many conservatives have noted (e.g. Will, Noonan, etc.), McCain appears to react instinctively, finding &#039;bad guys&#039; rather than reflectively. Given the challenges the next President will face, it would be best to have a President more adept at analytically addressing problems.

I don&#039;t agree with many of these assumptions, but I think someone reasonably could hold them (or others) which make Obama the lesser of two evils.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I couldn&#8217;t vote for Obama, and I don&#8217;t want to create a strawman, but I could see some combination of the following assumptions leading one to the conclusion that a Catholic could vote for Obama in good conscience:</p>
<p>1) McCain has never shown great affection for social-issues voters; there&#8217;s little evidence it&#8217;s a top priority for him personally.<br />
2) McCain would be able to do little to impact the legality of abortion with a Democrat Senate majority voting on his SCOTUS appointments.<br />
3) McCain and Obama both support ESCR.<br />
4) As there is little chance of change in the current abortion regime, and even the FOCA would only have marginal effects (arguendo), the other issues become more salient.<br />
5) Obama&#8217;s proposals to expand health care coverage, his initial opposition to Iraq, his willingness to expand programs that care for the poor etc. are more in line with many parts of Catholic Social Teaching than Obama&#8217;s.<br />
6) Obama shows the type of temperament and intelligence that we should look for in a President.<br />
7) As many conservatives have noted (e.g. Will, Noonan, etc.), McCain appears to react instinctively, finding &#8216;bad guys&#8217; rather than reflectively. Given the challenges the next President will face, it would be best to have a President more adept at analytically addressing problems.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t agree with many of these assumptions, but I think someone reasonably could hold them (or others) which make Obama the lesser of two evils.</p>
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		<title>By: Bret Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/10/palin-on-obama-and-abortion/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-89</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t go wrong with Chaput.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t go wrong with Chaput.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald R. McClarey</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/10/palin-on-obama-and-abortion/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald R. McClarey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-88</guid>
		<description>I agree with Archbishop Chaput:


&quot;8. So can a Catholic in good conscience support a “pro-choice” candidate? The answer is: I can’t and I won’t. But I do know some serious Catholics — people whom I admire — who will. I think their reasoning is mistaken. But at the very least they do sincerely struggle with the abortion issue, and it causes them real pain. And even more importantly: They don’t keep quiet about it; they don’t give up their efforts to end permissive abortion; they keep lobbying their party and their elected representatives to change their pro-abortion views and protect the unborn. Catholics can support “pro-choice” candidates if they support them despite — not because of — their “pro-choice” views. But they also need a compelling proportionate reason to justify it.

9. What is a “proportionate” reason when it comes to the abortion issue? It’s the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life — which we most certainly will. If we’re confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed.&quot;

I also agree with Archbishop Nauman and Bishop Finn:


&quot;Could a Catholic in good conscience vote for a candidate who supports legalized abortion when there is a choice of another candidate who does not support abortion or any other intrinsically evil policy? Could a voter’s preference for the candidate’s positions on the pursuit of peace, economic policies benefiting the poor, support for universal health care, a more just immigration policy, etc. overcome a candidate’s support for legalized abortion? In such a case, the Catholic voter must ask and answer the question: What could possibly be a proportionate reason for the more than 45 million children killed by abortion in the past 35 years? Personally, we cannot conceive of such a proportionate reason. &quot;

http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=29432&amp;page=2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Archbishop Chaput:</p>
<p>&#8220;8. So can a Catholic in good conscience support a “pro-choice” candidate? The answer is: I can’t and I won’t. But I do know some serious Catholics — people whom I admire — who will. I think their reasoning is mistaken. But at the very least they do sincerely struggle with the abortion issue, and it causes them real pain. And even more importantly: They don’t keep quiet about it; they don’t give up their efforts to end permissive abortion; they keep lobbying their party and their elected representatives to change their pro-abortion views and protect the unborn. Catholics can support “pro-choice” candidates if they support them despite — not because of — their “pro-choice” views. But they also need a compelling proportionate reason to justify it.</p>
<p>9. What is a “proportionate” reason when it comes to the abortion issue? It’s the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life — which we most certainly will. If we’re confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed.&#8221;</p>
<p>I also agree with Archbishop Nauman and Bishop Finn:</p>
<p>&#8220;Could a Catholic in good conscience vote for a candidate who supports legalized abortion when there is a choice of another candidate who does not support abortion or any other intrinsically evil policy? Could a voter’s preference for the candidate’s positions on the pursuit of peace, economic policies benefiting the poor, support for universal health care, a more just immigration policy, etc. overcome a candidate’s support for legalized abortion? In such a case, the Catholic voter must ask and answer the question: What could possibly be a proportionate reason for the more than 45 million children killed by abortion in the past 35 years? Personally, we cannot conceive of such a proportionate reason. &#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=29432&#038;page=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholic.org/politics/story.php?id=29432&#038;page=2</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bret Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/10/palin-on-obama-and-abortion/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 04:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-87</guid>
		<description>Fus,

Would it be better to say that Obama supports child murderers?

I can&#039;t imagine anyone with a good conscience voting for Obama... now I can understand voting Third Party who doesn&#039;t support abortion (because of Mclame&#039;s support of e. stem cells), but let us be real...

good conscience should never be used in the same sentence with voting for Obama.

I will definitely argue that their conscience is misinformed... BIG TIME!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fus,</p>
<p>Would it be better to say that Obama supports child murderers?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine anyone with a good conscience voting for Obama&#8230; now I can understand voting Third Party who doesn&#8217;t support abortion (because of Mclame&#8217;s support of e. stem cells), but let us be real&#8230;</p>
<p>good conscience should never be used in the same sentence with voting for Obama.</p>
<p>I will definitely argue that their conscience is misinformed&#8230; BIG TIME!</p>
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		<title>By: fus01</title>
		<link>http://the-american-catholic.com/2008/10/10/palin-on-obama-and-abortion/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>fus01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://amcatholic.wordpress.com/?p=436#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Obama is not a child murderer, and Catholics in good conscience can support him. I can&#039;t, but it&#039;s not fair to write somebody off simply because of their conclusions on the difficult issue of selecting a candidate to vote for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama is not a child murderer, and Catholics in good conscience can support him. I can&#8217;t, but it&#8217;s not fair to write somebody off simply because of their conclusions on the difficult issue of selecting a candidate to vote for.</p>
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